From Small Town To Big Impact: One OT's Pelvic Health Journey

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Transcript

Lindsey Vestal:
New and seasoned OTs are finding their calling in pelvic health. After all, what's more ADL than sex, peeing, and poop? But here's the question. What does it take to become a successful, fulfilled, and thriving OT in pelvic health? How do you go from beginner to seasoned and everything in between? Those are the questions and this podcast will give you the answers.We are inspired OTs. We are out-of-the-box OTs. We are Pelvic Health OTs.I'm your host, Lindsey Vestal, and welcome to the OTs in Pelvic Health podcast. 

Lindsey Hallinan:
Lindsey, I'm so excited to have this conversation today. You were so brave in raising your hand when I put a call out recently on the OTs for Pelvic Health Facebook group asking for people who had ideas, who wanted to be a guest on the podcast in 2025, and your perspective is so refreshing. I'm really excited to have you as a guest today. Yes, I'm so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me. You truly are an inspiration to all the pelvic floor therapists out there and I'm so glad to be one of them. I actually remember getting your name from actually my mom who at the time, here let me tell this story real quick, so when I was a student back doing my clinical experience for pelvic floor therapy, I fell in love with it so quickly and I remember going home telling my mom all about it and telling her like, hey, do you think I have what it takes to make it as a pelvic floor therapist? Like, do you think there would be any pushback from people? You know, because it's a little taboo, especially from where I'm from, and I remember her telling me, you know, go reach for the, reach for the moon, you'll land among the stars, and she always has my back, and actually at the time when I was doing my own research for pelvic floor therapy, she was the one that actually found you, Lindsay, back months ago, and I actually found the email that she sent to you once she found out who you are and how much you do for pelvic floor occupational therapy, and on the email it says, I actually sent this information for my daughter. She graduated in May with a master's degree in occupational therapy. She did her last round of fieldwork in pelvic floor therapy and absolutely loved it. I've never seen her more passionate about anything. After reading your information, she said, all right, mom, hope you're ready for my five-year plan. So I was ready. I was ready to go. I was gung-ho for pelvic floor therapy from the start.

Lindsey Vestal:
Oh my gosh, this just came full circle for me because I did not know that, I know that email. I love to now learn live while recording this podcast that that was your mom. I mean, shout out to your mom right now and thank her for being such an advocate for you, and wow. We've just spent a few minutes together before I hit record and just fell in love with you, and so now I can see why because your mom is just such a special person.

Lindsey Hallinan:
Oh, this is so cool. That's cute that you remember it. That's awesome.

Lindsey Vestal:
I don't get many emails like that. That was so special. 

Lindsey Hallinan:
I think it was from the mass email lists you send, and I feel like she probably thought it was an individualized, personalized email to her, and she was like, hey, Lindsay, this is actually information for my daughter.

Lindsey Vestal:
I love it. I want to talk more about your family because I know that was such an inspiration for you. Your journey from a small town in Pennsylvania to becoming the first OT in your company's Pittsburgh market is just awesome. I'd love to hear from you. What was it like navigating such a big transition as a new graduate? 

Lindsey Hallinan:
It definitely was a roller coaster. It had a lot of ups and downs. I definitely went into it, I fear, a little in over my head because I think it takes a lot being a new grad in any setting because you're looking for the mentorship. You're looking for the education. You're looking just to find your footing in a new world because you're coming straight from a regimented program in school, and you're having classes. I know mine was basically nine to three, nine to four every single day. You'd go back. You would study. You'd have a quiz the next day, and it was just back to back. Every day, you knew exactly what was going to happen. Then to go into a new field, go into a new job, I moved to a new city. It was a lot. It was definitely a lot at first, but I think just overall, I had the mindset of if anything were to go wrong, I just thought, well, that's life. That's just how life goes, and a new day, a new start. Overall, yeah, it was a lot, but at the same time, I had a lot of resources at my disposal as well. My company set me up with an amazing pelvic floor physical therapist, Natalie, who truly took me under her wing. She's been helping me out, and she is recognizing my talents as an OT, not just as a PT. I've had her. I've had talks with pelvic floor occupational therapists back home. I meet with my friend, Kylie, who's a pelvic floor occupational therapist from back home once a week just to go over some new research out or new information out there. I just really think me leaning on others, despite me wanting to be the strong, independent woman, I don't need anyone, you really do need people, especially as a new grad, especially at a new job in general. Definitely a rollercoaster, but I wouldn't trade it for the world either.

Lindsey Vestal:
Well, and even just how you reached out to me and said, I'd love to talk about this experience on your podcast just says so much about your character and your inner drive. I'm not at all surprised to hear that you have worked your way through the trials and tribulations to find yourself where you are today. I want to really just also applaud this weekly mentorship that you've reached out to with your friends. I think that mentorship can take so many forms, whether it's formal or informal, virtual or in-person. Anyone listening to this episode, please find that person and don't let anything come between it because you guys probably cry some weeks together. You definitely roll up your sleeves and are like, what's going on with this case? But regardless, I'm a huge proponent of community building, whether that's one-on-one or group settings. It's really how I built my private practice in New York City. Definitely what I thrive on now is someone who helps OTs get trained in pelvic floor therapy. And so I just really want to applaud that. I think that that is so incredible and so inventive.

Lindsey Hallinan:
Thank you. Yes, yes. I think especially in this day and age, a lot of people knock on social media as a tool just in general. And I think it is perfect. I use it for everything. I use it to communicate with pelvic floor therapists in general. I use it to network. I use it to market. I use it to keep in touch with friends and family. It's just an invaluable tool that I think a lot of people take for granted. But at the end of the day, that is the way I'm making all of these connections. I'm on Facebook. I've never used Facebook in my life. Now I'm on OTs for pelvic floor or pelvic health with your Facebook group. I'm on like Pittsburgh mom group chats. I'm on just places from home, places in Pittsburgh, pelvic floor in general, new grads and OT in general as well. I just think overall in this day and age, lean on the social media. That's what we grew up with. We had Twitter, we had Snapchat, we had Instagram. Now honestly a lot of people are leaning into it. It's not something to be afraid of.

 Lindsey Vestal:
I love that perspective. You're so right. Can you share a little bit more about growing up in a big supportive family? How has it influenced your passion for pelvic floor therapy and shaped your approach to care?

 Lindsey Hallinan:
Yeah. So I am from, yes, a very big Irish family. Um, my grandmother who we affectionately called Nina had 13 children, which is now accumulated to, I think now we're at, you know, 37 grandchildren and 32 great grandchildren. And she is the matriarch of this family. She is the top dog mom of the year, just supporting all of us. So growing up, I definitely leaned on my family. You know, we're not ones who we, we always get together. You know, we are always together for holidays. We were there for summer get togethers. We have a cottage, you know, 30 minutes away. We always meet up and hang out there. And just through the years I was noticing, I mean, I've already talked about how supportive my mom is, but in addition to that, how supportive my family as a whole is. And I think just growing up, seeing all the different mother figures, you know, they each have their own set of kids, you know, and I don't know, just seeing how strong they were and just how supportive and welcoming and just sweet they were to all the kids. You know, if someone got hurt, I didn't have to run to my mom. I could run to any one of my aunts and I knew they would take care of me. I have an aunt Eileen who takes in all of her nieces and does, you know, monthly brunches with them just to keep in touch. And I think just overall, seeing how they almost cared for me and shaped me into the person I was, once I was, I guess, exposed to pelvic floor therapy, the women and I guess more so like the female population I would treat, I would see them as my aunts. Because I was seeing a lot at the time as a student, a lot of, you know, like the older moms or, you know, like 40s, 50s, 60s, and just always them saying, you know, like, I wish I had pelvic floor therapy back when I was having kids. And then, I don't know, just something clicked in my head. Those are my aunts. That's my mom. That's my grandmother. They didn't have this back in the day. And so I remember being a student and going to a family get together for the first time. And, you know, I was almost scared to tell my family, you know, the traditional, hey, Lindsay, what are you up to? Like, what's going on? You know, you have to let them know. I'm a clinical student doing pelvic floor therapy. I was scared at first, and I shouldn't have been. But I was scared at first because I didn't know, again, if there was any pushback. Would I get any questions? Like, why are you doing that? But no, if anything, they were so supportive of it. If anything, they were asking me questions, so many questions about it. Hey, what can I do about this? What can I do about that? Pulling me aside to ask me, you know, more specific questions. Like, hey, I'm struggling with this. What can you do? Like, what tips and tricks do you have, even just being a student? And now, it's just turning into these little powwows at family get-togethers where I just talk about pelvic floor therapy all the time. But, I don't know. I just really think that I didn't realize until being exposed to pelvic floor therapy how much of an impact they had on me. And I'm glad that in this way, I'm able to give back to them.

 Lindsey Vestal:
It's so beautiful. Not only give back to them, but give back to all of your clients, just because you feel that personal connection. Like, what you said, this is my aunt, this is my cousin. I mean, that's just such a beautiful sentiment. And you are such an incredibly warm person that I know that you have such strong therapeutic use of self in those situations. And honestly, I think that's the superpower of being an exceptional pelvic floor therapist. It's that relatability. It's that idea that, like, I've got you. We're going to go through this together. And I refer to it a lot in my level one course as being a facilitator versus a fixer. And you definitely, that, like, I can feel that, you know, deep in your approach. You know, an interesting thing, is, like, many pelvic floor therapists are inspired by their own personal experiences. I think very often with motherhood. But your why is a little bit different. You know, at this point in time, you are not a mother. And so I'm curious, how does your perspective as someone who hasn't yet experienced motherhood yet shape the way you approach your own work?

 Lindsey Hallinan:
Oh, it certainly, it certainly does shape me. I know, before I get into this, I know as a student and thinking as a new grad, like, I really want to get into pelvic floor therapy. I don't want any other new grads to go through what I went through, which was seeing a lot of biographies of these different pelvic floor therapists and their why being, yeah, I went through my own birthing experience. And I realized, you know, there was a lot left unsaid. And there were questions not answered. And that that's what led them to pelvic floor therapy. And for me, it almost showed me, almost is the key word almost told me like, Oh, maybe I'm not ready to do this, because I don't have that experience yet. My why does come back to just motherhood in the sense of I've had these strong mother figures in my life, and all of their birthing experiences wildly different. So even if I had children of my own, say I had, you know, about two vaginal births, two natural vaginal births, that's wildly different than be a cesarean, you know, a C section. So I think even the way you go about, do you have a doula with you? Do you have a midwife? Are you at a hospital? Is it a home birth? Just because you have had birth and you had that experience, I think also, you got to take into account all the other experiences. And I think that doesn't, you shouldn't stop short, because you didn't have kids. And for me, I know, I was still inspired by motherhood in general, just not by my own personal experience, obviously, but just talking with my aunts talking with my cousins talking with my mom, you know, it was easy for me to go home and say, Mom, I learned this in what I would go home from clinical and be like, guess what I learned in school today? Tell her about all I've learned and see, did you also go through this? Hey, I had a patient that you know, had a grade two tear. Did you did you have any tearing? That's not a question I would have asked two years ago, let alone like months ago before I started, you know. And for me, yeah, my why still goes back to motherhood. And yes, I do want a chance to have kids of my own someday. But that's, I'm a new grad, you know, I'm still trying to find my footing with my new job in a new city. But overall, I think it is still motherhood and how crazy the changes are and what I can do to help them. And yeah, that's beautiful.

Lindsey Vestal:
That's beautiful

Lindsey Hallinan:
Thank you.

 Lindsey Vestal:
I know shadowing and networking were also really pivotal in your journey. Do you have any tips for OT students or even professionals trying to find shadowing opportunities or connect with other pelvic floor therapists?

 Lindsey Hallinan:
My biggest piece of advice, I guess is the quote, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. Wayne Gretzky, Michael Scott, for those of you office fans, right? I know for me, I sent emails, messages to anyone and everyone. I know when I first, I think when I, when I finished my first clinical, I was even shooting emails and messages out to local therapists. This was before even pelvic floor therapy. And just trying to get an idea of, hey, well, you're a professional, you are doing great. What was your journey like new grad to first job and then on? And whenever I did my pelvic floor experience and on day one, when I was hooked to it, I started reaching out to pelvic floor therapists. How did you get into this? What was your career like? Did you go straight into it as a new grad? Did you do say 10 years in a skilled nursing facility? And did you fall into it? And for me, I sent messages through Facebook, through Instagram, through LinkedIn, and again, going back to social media, like you'd be surprised at how easy it is, in a way to almost just send a simple message as, hey, my name is Lindsay, I'm interested in pelvic floor therapy, I see that you are a pelvic floor therapist, would you have any time for a quick chat, either through phone call, or if they're, you know, local in person. And honestly, I have not had many nos, at all, if any, if any. So for me, it's just, again, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. And I think at the end of the day, you got to remember what's the worst that can happen? The worst being what they say? No, okay, move on to the next one. Fortunately, we are in a time where there are many pelvic floor therapists. You know, I'm not back, you know, how many years ago x amount of years ago, whenever people were just starting this, we are at a prime time, prime time of so many different therapists available. And not to say, even if they're local or not, you can still call them, you can still message them. I've had different students text me via LinkedIn. And even though I don't think I have a lot of experience compared to a lot of pelvic floor therapists, I'm on it, you know, because I recognize how important it was for me to reach out to other therapists, and they respond back to me. So now in my head, I want to do the exact same thing. I want to be the person that even though I don't have a lot of experience, I will tell you exactly how I got into this. I'll tell you any tips and tricks I have. And I promise I will answer as soon as possible as long as I'm not sleeping. But overall, I just think social media is such a tool. And tips and tricks wise, just be confident. Don't Don't sell yourself short, just and it doesn't have to be a long email either. Just reach out and see what happens. And don't get discouraged. If you don't hear back, don't get discouraged. If they say no, just send the message. If it doesn't work out, just move on.There's so many out there, just give it a try.

 Lindsey Vestal:
Honestly, I don't think we can hear that message enough. You know, I think that in some ways, people can be a little bit crippled by social media. But I love this refreshing approach that you have on it, which is like, I don't know, I would have never been in a million years been able to be connected with a pelvic floor therapist in Los Angeles, for example, or some sort of social media platform. And I love this idea of what's the worst they could say? No. I think I think that's really empowering. And it's definitely a lesson and things that we're talking a lot of a lot about here at my own house with my 12 year old. It's just this idea that you know, if you don't try, we know the answer is no. And so I also really am very excited to hear that you haven't had any nose and that those doors have been opening for you. So it's phenomenal what we can do when we just take that attitude on. So I love hearing that from you. Another thing that you have talked a lot about, which I just love is this idea of kind of knowing your non negotiables when you're searching for a job. Would you mind sharing a little bit about how making that list for you helped you stay focused and land the right position?

 Lindsey Hallinan:
Yeah, so this past summer, whenever I, you know, fortunately graduated my master's of occupational therapy school, I went straight into, you know, studying for my boards, but also getting ready for interviews. So I personally did not feel confident in interviewing for jobs prior to or at least accepting a job prior to passing my boards, because I am someone who, I like being the underdog, and I don't like too much pressure sometimes. So I instead used my time studying for my boards, but also preparing for interviews, because I figured if I'm not going to accept a job before I take the boards, fortunately, I passed on my first try. So that was good. That was good. But I just didn't want that added pressure on myself. So I told myself, I have to do at least something in the meantime, to make it almost right in my head that I'm doing something for the interview process. So I remember sitting down one day, when I was sick of learning, I don't even know what it was like, probably something with pediatrics. I don't even know. I was just like, I got to do something different. So the developmental milestones, that's what it was. So I remember sitting down making a list of I did a lot of research prior to what to look out for, for job interviews, because I know I've been working since I was 14. But all odd jobs, you know, I didn't really have to interview for anything. It was all word of mouth, most of it being nannying or babysitting. So I didn't really know much of a proper interview process. So I did a lot of research on my own of, you know, like what to expect during an interview, what to look out for, things you should ask about, tips, tricks, best practices. And I made a list of all my non-negotiables after reading all of these different answers from different providers online. And I, you know, I came up with, based on research for current trends of occupational therapists, I came up with a salary idea of what I wanted and what my lowest salary I would take almost. So I knew in my head, anything lower than this, I'm just not going to take because I think I deserve more, you know. And I made, I wanted to be a pelvic floor therapist. So I knew that a job that didn't align with that, or at least wouldn't lead to that, wasn't something I wanted to go into either. Benefits wise, you know, I wanted my dental, I wanted my medical, I need my little insurance card in case something were to happen, you know. And then also what was really important to me was a mentorship piece. I knew that, you know, going into any job, as I mentioned before, as a new grad, I think it's really important to have a mentor of some sorts. And I would much rather, personally, I would much rather have one in-house or at the clinic somewhere or at least nearby. So if I have any questions, immediately I have someone to answer it for me, whether it be in the moment, like treating someone or even logistically or insurance wise, I don't want to be left in the dark. And then the educational piece, I wanted something that would help out either financially, are they going to give me some money to do my continuing education credits? Are they going to offer me continuing education credits? Are they going to offer me courses or trainings or conferences that I can just keep learning? Because for me, I'm at the point, not even at the point, I feel like I've always been almost like a sponge. I just want to learn everything. I want to take it all in. I want to have every opportunity at my doorstep. And I had this list. Yeah. So before I'd go into an interview, I had it. I looked at it. I obviously wouldn't bring it in and be like, can you match this? But in my head, like I knew what I wanted and it helped. It kind of gave me more confidence because it helped me be more in control of the conversation. Because I know it's hard for new grads to negotiate anything because you think, hey, I have zero experience. I don't really have much to offer. But at the end of the day, you did five, six years of schooling. You have either a master's, a doctorate level degree. You did your clinical experiences. You passed. You are a certified and licensed occupational therapist or physical therapist. You have the tools. You have the background. You have just everything you would need to put you in the right spot. So I don't think selling yourself short is going to help you by any means. So I don't know. I think overall, just having that list ready to go, again, just putting me in control and it just helped me so much more. It was so awesome.

Lindsey Vestal:
I don't think I meet many new grads who have that clarity of thought and desire the ability to recognize that there's two parties that need to get their needs met. I think a lot of people think like, I'm sort of like at your whim. I want this job so badly that I'm kind of like willing to take any salary or put up with any terms. And I really love how you're flipping the script on that. And it worked for you. And I hope and I can't wait to reconnect with you in a couple months and just see how things are going. But it sounds like you have found the right home for you where it is really an equal match. And at the end of the day, that's what it has to be, just like any other relationship in our life, right? It goes both ways. We have to interview them just as much as they're interviewing us.

 Lindsey Hallinan:
I think it goes back to with, I remember listening to your one podcast about even just like therapist patient relationships and how rather than you leading them or you being in charge, it's best to have the connection and the collaboration of being equals. And I think I took that but put it into perspective of an interview and thinking we are a partnership. I am helping you as much as you are helping me. You are helping me financially, giving me a job, giving me a platform. But at the same time, I'm helping, at least in this job, I'm helping to grow, grow population, growing the OT services. And I just think the partnership idea of it helps you be more confident in these interviews and it gives you more control overall. I love that I did that. I don't know where I came up with it, but I love that I did that.

 Lindsey Vestal:
And you can look back on it and be like, I don't know what sort of force that I had there, but it worked out for me. Well, I'm actually not surprised. And also I'm sure your family was such an influence on shaping so many of these wonderfully resilient attributes that you have. You've talked about listening carefully to interviewers to determine if a job aligns with your goals. I'm curious, Lindsey, if you have any red flags that perhaps you'd like to share with aspiring pelvic floor therapists that they could be on the lookout for during the interview process.

 Lindsey Hallinan:
So I'm hoping most of you listening are interested in pelvic floor therapy, because I think this conversation will be more about that in the sense that I had a specialty that I wanted to go into. And when I was going on interviews, I only went honestly, not on too many, but definitely a handful of interviews. And there were two that stuck out to me where almost the, I feel like we all know the stereotype of OTs being better with hand therapy and PTs being better at the legs and mobility. So I remember two separate interviews I went on for a pelvic floor position, and it was stated on, whether it be stated on the job posting or I reached out and said, hey, I am an aspiring pelvic floor therapist. These are my credentials. This is my experience. Are you interested in a pelvic floor therapist? So I knew going into it, they had that idea already presented to them. Like I was going for pelvic floor therapy. That's what I wanted. So I remember on two different interviews, one more so than the other, they obviously started talking about pelvic floor therapy, what they could do, what they could offer. And then they started asking me my confidence in treating hands. And I feel like a lot of times jobs, especially as new grads in a way, it's okay to say, yes, I feel confident or no, I don't feel confident, but we do have the background. I think we're pretty strong background, whether, whether you're interested in pursuing it or not. And I know too, that to build a caseload at first, you kind of have to do almost like 50, 50 potentially, or, you know, you have to have a few hand patients just to build the caseload. And I recognize that as that being a potential thing to occur. So I went into it thinking, yep, that's fine. Like I'll do what I can, as long as the goal is to just be a fully fledged pelvic floor therapist. You know, that is my end goal. That's what I want to do. But during these two interviews, the conversation, as soon as it started getting into what's your confidence on treating hands, and I would say, I feel fairly confident. You know, my splinting isn't the greatest, but, um, honestly, like that's something, you know, I could learn if that's what it comes down to, you know, and cause we did some splinting labs back in school, but obviously I don't know all of the advanced ones. Anyway, as soon as I started talking about like, yep, I feel pretty confident, fairly confident about, uh, hand therapy conversation took a turn into, okay, here's how we can market for hands here. The doctors we could reach out to hear the referral sources we could get into contact to. And it just sounded like to me that it was just going to be this big push for hand therapy. And in my head, how it was playing out was, okay, well, if you're pushing for hand therapy, won't it be harder to go back to pelvic floor therapy in the long run? Like how long is it going to take? If you're going to push hand therapy, hand therapy, hand therapy, are you going to get to the point where you guys are happy with how many people I'm seeing? And we never addressed pelvic floor therapy. Um, and that wasn't in the cards for me. I had a goal. I wanted to stick to it. I knew that other job opportunities would be out there. So, you know, I said, no, I'm not interested at this time, you know, or whatever. So long story short, I think it's very important to listen to what they're saying. Because again, obviously, we're nervous going into interviews, we're new grads, we're not probably used to these interview processes. So I think if you listen carefully to how they're wording things, or what the conversation is turning into, are they talking about hands a lot? Are they talking about how you might not have a mentor? Are they talking about how they might not be able to match the salary you thought you had in mind? Like, listen, and know that you can go elsewhere. And it's scary. It is very scary. But at the end of the day, I don't think it's worth being locked into a job that from the start, you know, you're not going to be happy with.

Lindsey Vestal:
Yeah, I really could not agree more. I mean, you're, you're, you're advocating for yourself, you are really leaning into what we hope to do for our clients, right, empower them, set them up for success. And so I just love that you're OT-ing yourself, and you OT-ed yourself through this process. Because you're right, like, you know, there's that expression, when people show you who they are, listen to it. And you're right, those interviews are exactly that the way they take their questions, what they tend to focus on what they're emphasizing are all clues. And so I guess, you know, reading between the lines, Lindsey, what I also hear you saying is apply to many places, just like, you know, we always hear to to potentially date a lot of people before we settle down and marry, it's the same kind of thing, like, don't be afraid to shop around and to experience different interviews, because we can only learn from it and get better.

 Lindsey Hallinan:
I completely agree. And I honestly, until you brought that up, I totally forgot that I also did this, I truly was not afraid to almost like pitch my job to companies. Even as a new grad, I was like, what's the worst they said? No, like, oh, well. So I remember, um, man, like, oh my gosh, I forgot. So I not only did I apply to pelvic floor OT positions, which are few and far in between, there aren't many out there to be honest. So again, don't get discouraged by the lack of job postings for pelvic floor OT. I had my actually my mentor, my clinical instructor from when I was a pelvic floor student, she was the one that told me to don't be afraid to apply to pelvic floor PT jobs. And just say in the description or in the resume portion, wherever you can put like a little subjective line saying, hey, I'm not a PT. But here again, are my credentials. I am an OT, I can still do what you need me to do. And then when that I was impatient through this whole process, I will not lie. So whenever I got through all the pelvic floor PT, so I went through pelvic floor OT jobs, I went through pelvic floor PT jobs. And then I was like, well, who's gonna stop me from just like telling these companies, hey, I think you guys would do great with a pelvic floor OT. How about me? Like, why not? Like, what are they gonna say? No, like, oh, well. And so there were actually a few opportunities that came up from that. And it just didn't work out location wise. Like I couldn't move at the time. But I just thought, like how almost in a way like how funny would it be if I just pitched to a company? Like, hey, I saw you don't have pelvic floor therapy. I'll be your first. Like, why not? What's stopping you at the end of the day? Like, what's stopping you? So I did that a few times. And I had, you know, different, almost like job offers from different companies that are like, Oh, we didn't think about pelvic floor, like, that would be great. But I just couldn't move out of state at that time. But again, like, don't sell yourself short, like opportunities are endless, like put yourself out there, you know, because again, it always goes back to what's the worst they say no, at the end of the day, even if they say no, at the time, they're going to remember how ambitious you were, they're going to remember how motivated you were, even as a new grad. Like, I feel like just be confident, because at the end of the day, what do you have to lose? What do you have to lose?

 Lindsey Vestal:
Yes, yes, yes. I adore, adore that perspective, again, find it so refreshing. You are going to be you are a force to be reckoned with. I also just want to mention that for anyone, you're right, like it is it is hard to find a job listing for an OT. Even over a decade ago, when I applied for my first job, that was that was definitely the case. I think things are changing. I do think we're seeing evolve evolution on that. But I do want to mention to anyone listening on the podcast who hasn't seen it yet, I just published a free guide called the PT's guide to hiring an OT. And so I would encourage everyone to print this out, bring it with them. If you come across a question you can't quite answer, because you did open this door, like Lindsey is suggesting you do by saying, Hey, have you thought about an OT, this could be a really good fit for your team, they're going to have a lot of routine questions around billing around codes, you know how a script could be written, I answer all those questions in this free guide. So I felt like we should stop reinventing the wheel. And I want to remove as much friction as I possibly can between OTs getting hired. So check that out. It is available on my OTs for pelvic health Facebook group. If you're listening to this podcast, just send me a quick email and I'll send you over the guide. Because we got to get OTs jobs. One last question for you, which is as someone who is clearly very passionate about paving the way for more pelvic health OTs, what are your hopes for the future of our field?

 Lindsey Hallinan:
I, man, I have so many hopes for this future. I think my biggest thing is, and you go back from the very beginning of our conversation, just about hearing from, you know, our older clientele who didn't have access to pelvic floor therapy at the time. I, for me, I don't even care about, I don't even know how to word this, but basically just awareness of pelvic floor therapy. I think more people getting into this field is going to be monumental for all of the, any population, literally any population, because bottom line is everyone has a pelvic floor. Everyone, every single person has a pelvic floor. And I just think for hopes, literally just awareness, I think even now, despite people thinking, man, like pelvic floor is really surging. A lot of people know about it. And in my opinion, not enough now. There's still so many people that don't know about it. I, even just telling people, like my friends back home or like people I meet, Hey, I'm a pelvic floor therapist. They're like, what's that? And I still think there are avenues we have to go down. There are mountains we have to go over, you know, trying to get the word out about, Hey, this is offered. This is how you can get into it. A as a practitioner, B as a therapist, C as a patient, this is how you can get into it. This is how you can be like, these are the resources available now. And I just wish there was like, my dream is to, you know, somehow find a way of just letting everyone know about pelvic floor therapy. Like, I just think it is so important. And I never want to hear from a patient again, man, I wish I would have known this X amount of years ago, or like, I wish I would have known this when I was younger. Like, I want, I want everyone to know about it. Because I think it is so beneficial for anyone for anyone. And I think too, it's still being marketed in a way towards new moms, it's still being marketed towards, you know, the geriatric population. And I think, obviously, yes, it should be marketed to them. But not only them. There are so many different populations that could benefit from this. And I still think there are, there are still moves to be made in this big game of chess, basically, of how do we get the word out to all of these different populations, because I think everyone can benefit from it in their own way. So I just hope that as more people come into this field, as more OTs and PTs graduate, they are even exposed to it in school, exposed to it before then, if anything, just being exposed to it as a as a whole and just being aware that it's a thing. And as the awareness comes up, we're going to need the therapist to back it up. You know, because we need both sides working together, not one leading the other, we need both collaborating at the same level. So yeah.

 Lindsey Vestal:
Obviously, share your dream 100%. Like, I always say that my goal is that pelvic floor therapy and occupational therapy school as is ubiquitous as hand therapy is like, that is my my vision for for us, as well as to have 10,000 pelvic floor therapy OTs in by the year 2030. And I think with my level one program rolling out, as well as the new functional pelvic practitioner program, that this will be the first year that I'm offering it 2025. Like, I feel like all of those clients that you're talking about that need us beyond the one that we traditionally think of, like, are going to have this opportunity to be exposed to our incredibly special, unique biopsychosocial approach. And I'm so excited to see where that goes. Because just like you so eloquently said, it's, it's a universal, it's a universal experience, having a pelvis having just living through life in our sedentary life, whether it's because you're sitting all day, whether it's because you know, so much of our forward leaning posture is affecting our pelvic floor muscles. I mean, you name it, everything about our society and our culture sets us up for having some sort of core dysfunction or detachment. And so 100% agree with you and share that vision. And I just want to thank you so incredibly much for coming on to the podcast today. It was so refreshing to speak with you. And for anyone, you clearly love to network and build community for anybody listening who wants to connect with you. How can they find out about you?

 Lindsey Hallinan:
Um, I have a LinkedIn that barely has any posts yet I use it all the time to connect with people that and I have almost like an occupational therapy, Instagram account. So it's Lindsey Hallinan underscore OT, I think right now. So feel free to reach out, I can give you my number from there. I'm more than happy to answer any questions, talk to you about the real life scenarios of being a new grad into this field, a very fresh new grad into this field.

 Lindsey Vestal:
Oh, well, thank you so much. Again, I really feel like there is so much there that you've talked about that's going to help so many, especially our new grads. So keep on rocking it. I can't wait to hear and follow your journey because I know you're going to be successful at everything you do. So thank you again for your time today.

 Lindsey Hallinan:
Thank you so much. This has been so much fun. Oh my gosh.

Lindsey Vestal:
Thanks for listening to another episode of OTs and Pelvic Health. If you haven't already, hop onto Facebook and join my group, OTs for Pelvic Health, where we have thousands of OTs at all stages of their pelvic health career journey. This is such an incredibly supportive community where I go live each and every week. If you love this episode, please take a screenshot of this episode on your phone and post it to IG, Facebook, wherever you post your stuff, and be sure to tag me and let me know why you like this episode. This will help me to create in the future what you want to hear more of. Thanks again for listening to the OTs and Pelvic Health podcast.