What Hiring Managers Want You To Know

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Transcript

Intro: New and seasoned OTs are finding their calling in pelvic health. After all, what's more ADL than sex, peeing, and poop? But here's the question. What does it take to become a successful, fulfilled, and thriving OT in pelvic health? How do you go from beginner to seasoned and everything in between? Those are the questions and this podcast will give you the answers. We are inspired OTs. We are out-of-the-box OTs. We are Pelvic Health OTs, I'm your host, Lindsey Vestal, and welcome to the OTs in Pelvic Health podcast. 

Lindsey: I've been wanting to do an episode like this for a really long time because part of I feel like my responsibility in offering public health courses and certifications is also exploring and being really curious about what it takes to get people who graduate through my programs employed, right? It's not enough just to have the skills and be excellent at it. We actually have to make money doing it. And so I'm really excited to be talking about this today because the perspective of what hiring managers look for specifically in pelvic health actually are key principles that apply to any job because they're really universal. And because of that, I've actually asked my husband to join me for today's conversation because Doug has been a senior manager in the corporate world for a really long time.

In fact, he's managed 30 employees across the globe, has at this point, probably interviewed hundreds of applicants and has written job descriptions throughout the year. So basically, from my perspective, Doug has seen everything about what makes a candidate really stand out.

Lindsey: So, Doug, thank you so much for coming on the OTs and Public Health podcast today to share your experience.

 Doug: Absolutely. I'm looking forward to this. I think it's a really important topic. It's one of those things that I think back in the day is going to sound so old fashioned. You know, students would learn how to conduct interviews and write resumes and do follow ups and how to conduct themselves. But that training is kind of gone by the wayside. And so I'm really excited to be talking with you today about this because I think it's such an important topic that if you get it right, it becomes so much easier to get a job.

 Lindsey: Exactly, exactly. And so what are some of those things that people could get right?

 Doug: So I think the most important thing people would say qualifications first, but as the hiring manager, I'm not going to say it's qualifications, right? I'm going to say it is how you show up, how you conduct yourself, how you bring excellence to both how you describe your work as well as how you conduct the interviews when you're there and then how you follow up afterwards. Because I can't tell you the number of times I've interviewed a candidate who on paper checks all of the boxes. And there's a lot of people who check all of the boxes, but that is not the only thing that hiring managers are looking for.

Hiring managers really take a step back and look at things like the cultural fit. You know, is this a person that you want to spend eight hours, 10 hours a day with? Right. You spend more time with your coworkers than you do your family.

And this was a big theme that that I always had when I was hiring. Is this someone that I would want to break bread with? You know, is it someone that is has the right personality fit? And so for me, that is the number one thing that most hiring managers look for. That we're going to talk about the qualifications, but it's really how you show up from a personality perspective and making sure that you have that fit in the organization.

Lindsey: I love that. And from my own experience, both being an applicant and also hiring people myself, I definitely agree with that. I remember when I first got started and I really couldn't wait to start working in pelvic health.

I was so worried about not having the right qualifications. Also, this was over a decade ago, and I think there was just even less options than there are now.

But one of the reasons why I think the door was opened was really because of my enthusiasm, my energy that I really you could she could tell I this I was not going to leave until I got the job. And on top of that, I considered all of those things that you're talking about, what I would do ahead of time, what I did afterwards, even simple things like writing a handwritten thank you note afterwards, which is does sound really old fashioned, but that's such a lost art. And I think it's one of those things that just make you it's so simple, but it makes you stand out above the crowd in such vivid ways.

Doug: It really does. I think of interviewing kind of like professional dating, you know, like, are you going to want to have a second date with someone who shows up late doesn't, you know, isn't dressed appropriately for the occasion doesn't have a fantastic attitude during it. right.

If you're on a first date with someone and they're not showing enthusiasm for the for the position or they're not showing enthusiasm in the conversation, are you really going to want to have a second date with that person? Most likely not. And at the end of the day, we're just people, right? We're humans. And we are picking up on the vibe of that person who we're sitting across the table from.

And so there's so much soft skills that go into interviewing. We really think it's about the hard skills, but so many people have those hard skills. It's really about the soft skills.

Lindsay, as you said, like the follow up, you know, like, are you when you leave the interview? Are you telling them I'm really excited for this position? I can really see that this is a future home for me. I would love it if it's a yes. I understand you need to talk to some people internally, but would it be OK if I followed up with you five days from now? Right.

And that shows your self starter. It shows that this is something that's really important to you. You're not putting pressure on them.

You are just saying, hey, I think that this is a really good fit and I want to make sure that you guys agree with it as well.

 Lindsey: Well, it's showing that you're already thinking about the next step. And I think that idea of thinking through, not just thinking that you showing up to interview was enough, but you already asking permission for the next step demonstrates such passion for the fact that you're not going to take no for an answer.

Right. And I keep on saying that, but I don't really mean that. But I what I mean when I say I'm not taking no for an answer, it means is clear hands down.

This person is a driven, focused person who won't stop until they do get a job in this position. And that really is how I felt when I got my first job.

 Doug: Yeah, exactly.

It's really you're doing everything you can that's under your power, right? Like, you can't control other people, but you can control how you act. And so you're doing everything that's under your power to make the situation, you know, the outcome that you want. So you originally asked, like, what's the number one thing? And we started down this route of the soft skills.

One of the objections we hear a lot is, well, maybe you don't have experience yet in pelvic health, or maybe the job description is written for a PT. So I'd love to spend a little bit of time talking about those 2 things.

 Lindsey: Yeah, I think those 2 are the biggest things that I hear from the graduates of my level 1 program is they're thinking I don't have experience or the job keeps saying pelvic floor physical therapy.

All right. So what do we do about those 2 objections?

 Doug: Yeah. Let's talk about the first, which is the job description says pelvic floor physical therapy.

Here is a sneaky little thing that a lot of people might not realize is that many times when you have a resignation, you just bring out you dust off the old job description that you had from 3 or 4 years ago. HR sends it to you. You're really stressed.

You're really busy. You glance over it. You hit approve.

And it goes out on, you know, Indeed and all the other like job postings. So you might actually be encountering a situation where that job description just hasn't been updated in a long time. So that's number 1, right? So don't take it as a red flag not to apply.

Take it as the green light of once they see my qualifications, once they see my resume, they're probably going to make an exception. The other thing is that from a hiring manager's perspective, many times you will write the description looking for the unicorn. You will write the description saying, well, they need to have 5 to 7 years experience.

They need to have taken this course. They need to have taken this other course. And many times that person might not actually exist.

I can tell you a quick story. When I was updating job descriptions on Wall Street, I would put everything in. I would send it to one of my team leaders in that region because I would be hiring for New York or London or Hong Kong.

And I'd send it to them and they'd send me an email back going, Doug, I don't even have those qualifications, right? So many times it's a wish list, right? From the hiring manager's perspective. If they can find someone with all of that, that's fantastic. But don't get discouraged if you don't have every single thing that's listed on there because I can tell you I've hired many people and some of them were my best hires that didn't fit every single bullet point on the job description.

Lindsey: Yeah, that's awesome. Okay. And what about the other one?

 Doug: The lack of experience?

 Lindsey: Yeah.

Doug: So this is interesting. There's so much that you can do if you don't yet have experience, right? And this is where you can really actually shine because I would tell you every single hiring manager loves an employee who is a self-starter, right? And if you don't have any experience, what you do have is you have your time and your energy. And what I would recommend is you deploy that and show how much of a self-starter you are.

So what does that look like in practice? Well, you have the skills. Go practice them on your spouse, on your partner, on your sister, on a friend, on somebody in the community, right? You can develop those skills and then create a little portfolio case study of all of the evaluations you did.

I saw Janet. She was six weeks postpartum, blah, blah, blah, right? And then I saw Sam. You can write that up and show to the hiring manager, hey, I know I don't have that experience, but this is the coursework I've done and this is how I'm already using the coursework to provide pro bono services to people within my social network. And that shows the hiring manager what an incredible self-starter you are and how committed you are to this.

And hiring managers really, really pick up on that because I can tell you from a manager's perspective, you don't want employees that aren't self-starters. Those employees are really hard to manage. They're really hard to get rid of.

And they kind of bring the rest of the team down because they're not really carrying the weight that they should. And so if you can demonstrate through your practice what a self-starter you are, then that can really open up a lot of doors.

Lindsey: What's so crazy is I'm hearing you talk about this because we've been together over two decades now.

We have conversations like this a lot, but I'm kind of reflecting on my own journey into pelvic health, realizing I think it makes a lot of sense for me to share a little bit of my story here because I think it actually really complements what you're saying, which is just kind of interesting that I haven't pieced that together before.

So when I got my first job, it was for a pelvic floor physical therapist, and the HR department kept overlooking my resume. I would call. I would have several phone calls. I think I called five or six times before finally the HR rep saying to me, okay, honestly, your resume was put in the decline pile because you didn't meet the base requirements. And I said, oh, what requirements were those? And she said, you're not a pelvic floor.

Excuse me. You're not a physical therapist. You're an occupational therapist.

I tried to explain to the HR person why I was still a candidate and why I was still qualified. And for her, it was just black and white. She didn't have the ability to override that despite hopefully a good answer that I gave her.

So I decided to actually just show up at the clinic and I went around. I went around lunchtime. Those are people he's probably laughing because he knows that I'm very stubborn.

So I showed up at the clinic and I went at lunch and I did that on purpose because I knew that it would be a little bit slower during that time. And while there still was a line and the front desk knew why I was there, I would always politely step aside when a client came up. So I was also already demonstrating respect and letting them know I don't want to be in the way.

I'm not here to cause problems or be a thorn in your side. Eventually, the receptionist went back to the hiring manager who was on her lunch break, and the hiring manager said, I've got a few minutes. Ask her to come back.

By the way, this job had been out for over a year. They were trying to fill this position for over a year. My guess is that's why she took me back because she probably was so frustrated with how long this was taking.

Come to find out, we actually worked at the same company. It was a software company that I was actually a technical writer for because my first degree is in English before I became an OT. And so we already had something to talk about.

And I knew this because she actually had the name badge out. She was very proud. It was a really prestigious company in the area.

And so we already had something to talk about, and we were laughing. That was pure luck. That was pure luck.

But that opened doors for me. I then started talking about all the courses that I put myself through. And I started talking about the thing you just said, Doug, which is starting to practice skills on a pro bono basis.

I had already started doing that. This was something that, like I said earlier, I wasn't going to take no for an answer. I knew I was meant to be a pelvic floor therapist, and it was just who was going to open that door.

And I wasn't going to stop until that door was open. So then she took me back to the head therapist, who was a physical therapist, and we agreed that I could come back on Monday and shadow. So I was there on Monday, got there 30 minutes early.

My whole job that day was to follow the therapist around. I volunteered to wipe down tables, turn rooms over. They had already had technicians hired to do that.

But I thought, you're already doing me such a gift. What can I do to go above and beyond to really let you know that I appreciate this? And again, I don't want to be a thorn in your side. At the end of the day, they offered me a full-time job.

And that's how it got started for me. And so, yeah, it's just so interesting.

 Doug: And just imagine if you had shown up differently during that day, right? So, okay, great that you had that connection.

But that day when you were shadowing, what if you weren't asking questions? What if you kind of looked like you didn't want to be there? What if you weren't profusive about thanking them for the opportunity? What if you weren't proactive in seeing how you could help them and everything? These are all markers that are totally free for anyone to do, right? They don't cost any money. They don't cost any additional experience or anything. But it's really how you show up in that session that they were looking for, right? They knew you had the background.

They knew you had the training. Now it was really what we started the conversation on was, is this going to be a cultural match for the organization? And they were like, wow, we need to bring Lindsey on board because she has such a great energy and she's so proactive in helping things out. She's going to be a great clinician.

Lindsey: Yeah, yeah I think I personally learned a lot through stories. And so hopefully my story was helpful in sort of exemplifying what you and I have been talking about. But in thinking about showing up with excellence and thinking about going above and beyond, I actually have another story in mind.

And I know it's a story you're familiar with because we've been reflecting a lot about it recently because it happened during the most recent fourth annual OTs and Public Health Summit in 2025. Doug, do you want to kick off the story?

 Doug: Yeah, so, you know, the summit, we have over a hundred attendees coming and a huge army of volunteers, right? And really the summit couldn't be put on without that huge army of volunteers.

 Lindsey: A hundred percent

Doug: They're doing everything from making sure that the signs are up to making sure the food is taken care of, just the restocking of everything, right? With over 100 people in there, there's a lot of opportunities for things to go wrong.

And Lindsey and Kelsey and everybody else is in the summit, right? They're attending the talks, managing the hosting and everything. So you're not able to fix any of those problems. So it really goes to the volunteers, right? And really how seamless the summit works is a credit to the amazing volunteers that we have.

And there was one volunteer in particular, they all made an impact on us, but we're going to talk about one specifically. And she was, what, talking with our kids, because our kids were there and everything. And afterwards, she decided to go out of her way and based on what the kids had said they enjoyed, actually bought a nice little gift for our kids, mailed it to our house, everything else, wrote a really great note reflecting on her time as a volunteer.

It was kind of like a thank you note, you know, this wasn't a job interview. And coincidentally, she's a past level one graduate. But just really going, the summit was meaningful to her and she went out of her way to let us know that the summit was impactful to her and did things like send us a gift, which was completely unnecessary.

Lindsey: Well, it also demonstrated that she was listening, right? So the summit is really a family affair. It's a family run environment, not only because my kids are there, but because every attendee that comes is part of our family. And it really feels that way.

And by her, and I want to say, because I asked my kids about it, I asked our kids about it, and it was a less than a two minute conversation. And she heard it, picked up on it, went out of her way. And it was a very generous gift.

And I was just so struck by this because it was remarkable. It was, it was, to me, it demonstrate excellence in not only what everybody wants to think that, that it was a meaningful impact. I want to know that my volunteers had an amazing experience.

And boy, did this let me know that, you know, and it felt great for my kids to like, what an amazing teaching moment. Because when the gift came, it was such an opportunity for us, Doug, both you and I to talk with them about exactly what this entire podcast episode is about, which is how do you make a remarkable impression? How do you let someone know something matters to them, whether that's in your personal life or your professional life? So I was so grateful for this volunteer for so many reasons. But as, as, as you know, we love sharing these moments with our kids and talking about how remarkable we can show up in our lives.

And so that was just awesome.

 Doug: And so that made a huge impression on us and something that we talked about for days afterwards. And then we were driving the car one day, Lindsey, and you, you, a thought popped into your mind. What was it?

 Lindsey: That I wanted to hire her, that I wanted to hire her because of the skills that she demonstrated, not only during the event, but after. I want to be around self starters. I want to be around people that show up with integrity and excellence.

And she exemplified this in spades.

 Doug: Yep. And so we have actually ended up hiring her.

It's for a product on a project basis, right? Something related with the certification that you've, you've developed. And she wasn't looking for a job. She wasn't asking for a job or anything else.

But this is something I think hiring managers look for, even when you're networking with people and when you're, when you're interacting with them in the real world and it's been a fantastic fit, you know, and we wouldn't have known that had she not shown up that way during the summit.

 Lindsey: Exactly. Exactly.  All right. So let's continue with this theme of stories, because I do think that a lot of what we're talking about, we didn't create these ideas, Doug, you know, you, you do any search on the internet about how to interview well, and all of these things are not novel ideas. But I think the stories that we tell regarding our experiences with them just kind of help personify. And hopefully, I hope that those listening to this episode, it will set off inspiration for you in your own life to go, I can do this here, I can make this happen there.

And I do think stories are such an excellent way just to elevate the and solidify some of these ideas that we're talking about. I would love Doug, if you could tell the story about how you got a job on Wall Street, because I think it was pretty remarkable.

 Doug: Yeah, My Big Break, So I actually for me the big break went from moving from risk management to the trading floor of right, cause the trading floor is where all the action happens and pretty much anyone who works on the wall street wants to make their way to the trading floor  and it is a very very competitive job to get, you know for every one spot you probably have 3-5 thousand applicant for it and so the best way is networking internally.

And so this job came open. And the front office, the sales team was in a bit of a pickle, because they had sold something to a client, and they didn't know how to risk management on the desk. And I had a background in this product from my PhD, but it never actually done anything in the real world, right? It was all theoretical is what my dissertation was on.

And so that at least got me the interview. And so I was sitting there talking, and the guy's name was Duncan, and Duncan's whole purpose of the interview was just to understand how I would risk manage that on a day to day basis. And I did my best to answer his questions, but having never done it, like I'd literally never done it, I had written about it, I'd, you know, wrote papers about it and everything, but like, fingers to the keyboard, like actually doing it day to day, I hadn't.

But, you know, and I think I did okay in the interview, probably not good enough to get the job, you know, like definitely demonstrated that I didn't have the experience that they were looking for. But that was on a Friday. And I don't know if you remember this, Lindsey, we were living in Connecticut at the time.

That was Friday, I came home, we talked about it. And all day, Saturday and Sunday, I went into the office, and I built the thing that allowed them to risk manager. And I remember it was late on Sunday night, I was in the office at probably like 11pm.

So it was, Duncan was based in London. So it was 6am Monday morning, his time, I sent the email, and if you know people on Wall Street, they're always on the BlackBerry, and he wrote me back right away. And so basically, I developed the whole program, the whole structure, how to risk manage, I spent the entire weekend doing it, I didn't even yet have the job, you know, and I didn't even think they were going to give me the job.

But then that Monday, after I got in, they called me in, and they gave me the job. And the reason was, I just solved a really, really big problem for them. They were looking for that self starter proactive person who didn't maybe have everything figured out, but could run it down and figure it out.

And that I think is a big key is that you don't have to know everything. You just have to be willing to invest the time to figure it out and demonstrate that that's the kind of person that you are.

 Lindsey: I have an odd question as a follow up to that.

Do you think you would have done anything differently if you didn't know that was going to get you the job? what I'm what I'm getting at is it's like, a lot of people go, oh, I'm not going to do that unless I know what's going to get me the job. Like that's a lot of work.

You gave up your entire weekend. And so a lot of people would go, that's too much work, or I only want to do this if I know what's going to get me the job. And what I'm trying to illustrate is you're the type of person who never did that, like always thought, well, I learned something.

Doug: Yeah,I always have the perspective of you either win or you learn. But I mean, I still do it to this day. And we talked to our kids about it as well, is the thing that's really important to me is opportunities don't always come back around.

And so you really, really have to maximize the opportunity, right? You can't sit on it, I don't think. You have to go for it. And you can't go, well, next time I'm going to show up differently, right? Like, no, let's show up differently today.

And you don't know, like, if that one interaction with the hiring manager, there's going to be another job after that. These things don't necessarily come up a lot. And so I always approach it from the perspective of, if this was the last thing I did, what does showing up look like in that case? And so, yeah, I think I would have done it even if I didn't, if there was no certainty.

Because at that time, there was absolutely zero certainty that it was going to do anything. They didn't ask me to do it. They didn't know I was working on it.

It's just something I volunteered myself to do on that weekend.

 Lindsey: Yeah, and so I want to just bring it back around to public health for a second, because the other, you had mentioned the lack of experience and that being a reason why a lot of people don't go for it. I want to talk about that again really briefly in the sense that what I tell a lot of my level one and level two students is, you know what, if a client asks you a question about what they're experiencing and you don't know the answer, I always encourage my students to say, I'm going to find out for you.

And actually do follow up and give them the answer. Number one, what that does is solidifies the relationship in a lot of ways, because now when you do speak as an authority figure and you do answer the question right away or provide information, they really know that that's authentic and that you are genuinely know your stuff. It also shows humility, and I think that is a big part of their building therapeutic rapport.

And so for anyone listening to this, who has heard me say that about our clients, I also want to say that same idea is applicable in this situation. So, don't be afraid if a hiring manager asks you a question that you don't know the answer to, because this is an opportunity. Maybe you do what Doug did where they ask you that question, but then you follow up with an email going through.

Hey, I know you asked me about interstitial cystitis, and I don't think I gave you a very satisfactory answer because, you know what, I don't have a lot of experience yet. However, I mocked up this case study on some possible interventions that I would provide. And that going above and beyond showing that you're willing to do the research also speaks volumes to the type of person that you are, because you are a lifelong learner and you're demonstrating that you're not going to just stop when you don't know the answers.

To me, that would be a very attractive response to an employee who, in the middle of an interview, quite bluntly said, I'm so sorry, I don't have experience with that. So I think there's opportunities all around us to do these things. And so hopefully we kind of reframed a little bit of some of those imposter syndrome feelings that we have when we're like, oh, I can't imagine if I'm in a job interview and I don't know how to answer the question.

It's like, actually, that's an opportunity to potentially solidify you as the candidate they're going to give the job offer to.

 Doug: And it also demonstrates a really attractive trait in a candidate, which is that they don't give up. And I can recall a number of people that I hired that a lot of our interviews were very technical.

We were asking, for lack of a better word, math equations. Because we wanted to know that you could think on your feet, that you understood how the markets work and everything else. And they were kind of designed for you not to get it right.

You wanted to see how the person performed under stress, when they were nervous, because you're talking to clients, you're dealing with you know very complicated products. And so there was a distinct difference between the candidates who said, I'm not really too sure, but if you give me a little bit of time, I can figure it out. And then went and sent me an email afterwards and figured out the problem, sat with it, and then came back.

Versus the person who said, oh, I don't know the answer to that. And I never heard from them again. Right? Like, the first person demonstrated, A, they're not going to give up.

And B, they're a person of their word. And C, they're really interested in this. They want this to work.

Versus the person who felt left feeling a little bit defeated and then just sort of, we never heard from again.

Lindsey: Yeah, that's awesome. Is there anything else you could think of, Doug, that you were hoping to discuss today regarding this idea of, you know, what it takes to get a job in pelvic health?
 I
Doig:  mean, I think it goes back to like three pillars that we've been talking about. Qualifications, which you have, right? And if you don't have the experience, create the experience yourself, because many times you'll have to do it for yourself before somebody else will give you that job.

Then it's how you show up with your soft skills, right? So show up with excellence, treat them the same way that you want to be treated, show your enthusiasm, show yourself starter, show that you can persevere, and then make sure that you follow up with them afterwards, because that follow up is really, really important. Not a lot of candidates do it. And I mean, this is an industry secret is that unfortunately, not a lot of candidates always show up the way hiring managers would want them to.

So if you're that person who shows up differently, that's really low hanging fruit and makes you very, very competitive compared to everyone else. You might not think that makes that big of a difference, but it really, really fundamentally does. And so just showing up with that excellence mindset, I think will take you an incredibly far away much further than you're probably giving yourself credit for right now.

Lindsey: Awesome, Doug. Thank you so much for having this conversation today. I loved it.

Doug:Thank you so much.


Outro: Thanks for listening to another episode of OTs and Pelvic Health. If you haven't already, hop onto Facebook and join my group, OTs for Pelvic Health, where we have thousands of OTs at all stages of their pelvic health career journey. This is such an incredibly supportive community where I go live each and every week. If you love this episode, please take a screenshot of this episode on your phone and post it to IG, Facebook, wherever you post your stuff, and be sure to tag me and let me know why you like this episode. This will help me to create in the future what you want to hear more of. Thanks again for listening to the OTs and Pelvic Health podcast.