OTs Leading the Charge In Workplace Menopause Programs

• Learn more about Level 1 Functional Pelvic Health Practitioner program
• Get certified in pelvic health from the OT lens here
• Grab your free AOTA approved Pelvic Health CEU course here.

____________________________________________________________________________________________
Pelvic OTPs United - Lindsey's off-line interactive community for $39 a month!
Inside Pelvic OTPs United you'll find:​

• Weekly group mentoring calls with Lindsey. She's doing this exclusively inside this community. These aren't your boring old Zoom calls where she is a talking head. We interact, we coach, we learn from each other.
  ​
• Highly curated forums. The worst is when you post a question on FB just to have it drowned out with 10 other questions that follow it. So, she's got dedicated forums on different populations, different diagnosis, different topics (including business). Hop it, post your specific question, and get the expert advice you need.

More info here. Lindsey would love support you in this quiet corner off social media!

Transcript

Lindsey Vestal

I am joined by two amazing OTs today, Dr. Sarah McCadden and Elizabeth Richardson. Sarah specializes in adult neurologic and geriatric populations and has expanded her expertise to women's health with a specialty focus on sexuality, pelvic health, and menopause. As a level one functional pelvic health practitioner and certified sexuality OT, she brings more than 20 years of clinical experience across diverse settings and over five years in academia.

 She is currently collaborating on the development and implementation of a menopause wellness program at her university while continuing to support wellness initiatives for adults and women across the lifespan. I'm also joined by Elizabeth Richardson, whose primary area of clinical expertise has been in PEDS, where she's worked closely with children of all ages and abilities and their families in both clinical and community based settings. In recent years, her professional focus has expanded to women's health with particular attention to menopause.

 Throughout her career, she has consistently integrated community-based programming into her practice, actively identifying needs and collaborating with interprofessional colleagues to design, develop, and implement initiatives that enhance occupational performance and quality of life. She is currently engaged in projects exploring the role of OT in supporting women's health and well-being across the lifespan with a focus on developing resources and programming related to menopause. I can't wait for you to hear today's conversation.

Intro:
New and seasoned OTs are finding their calling in pelvic health. After all, what's more ADL than sex, peeing, and poop? But here's the question. What does it take to become a successful, fulfilled, and thriving OT in pelvic health? How do you go from beginner to seasoned and everything in between? Those are the questions and this podcast will give you the answers.We are inspired OTs. We are out-of-the-box OTs. We are Pelvic Health OTs.I'm your host, Lindsey Vestal, and welcome to the OTs in Pelvic Health podcast. 

Lindsey Vestal

Sarah and Elizabeth, I'm incredibly honored to be having this conversation with you today on the OTs for Pelvic Health podcast. Thank you for being here.

Sarah McCadden

Thank you for having us. Thanks for allowing to be here.

Lindsey Vestal

Yeah it's such a pleasure. we were just talking a little bit about sort of how your both pasts have intertwined for goodness, 15 or so years, if I'm not mistaken.

Sarah and Elizabeth 

Sure. Yeah.

Lindsey Vestal

and Sarah, you consider Elizabeth a bit of a mentor to you which is incredible. And that has morphed into a lot more collaborations this year, including speaking recently at the Women's Specialty Conference for the AOTA.

Sarah McCadden

Yeah I'm so thankful for that when we had pathways where I was a site coordinator and Liz was a field work coordinator so as like many circles of therapists we passed through and then since 2021 we've been able to kind collaborate but more intentionally the past two years with our unique and centralized vision of supporting women, especially in that journey of awareness of menopause, going through menopause, and supporting livelihood and empowerment.

Lindsey Vestal

That's incredible. That is so incredible. So tell us a little bit about what motivated you both to work on the menopause matters program.

Sarah McCadden

I may have I may direct to Liz because honestly, I wouldn't be here if it wasn't like, come along. cause she knew that I had this passion and dare I say, like, I don't know when it comes to pelvic health, you are called to it You aren't, it isn't something like I'm going to change career paths. It's like, I can't get enough of this content. And so she knew I was just blurring the lines of like work life because you're walking, you want to hear a podcast about pelvic health. You want to learn about what's going on with women. So I am this nerding out of women's health. And this woman over here is, She started with collaborating with a student and a fellow colleague to do a presentation or state conference about menopause. So do you want to speak a little bit about that?

Elizabeth Richardson

Sure. As far as the interest in this particular program, it really started from a personal desire to find out more as Sarah and I are at two different life stages. So Sarah entering the transition phase and me being in it and maybe, you know, that postmenopausal stage and I fortunately was one of those people who never really had a lot of symptoms at any of those stages of transition. 

So, you know, early adolescence, menstruation, having babies was pretty easy and recovery and then going through menopause. But I knew that things were a little bit different. And so I also knew I was not getting a lot of support in the traditional medical field. So when I was going and seeking my traditional healthcare services, I felt like there were a lot of answers that were not there. 

So that personal journey, I think oftentimes what we do is we align that with what we do professionally. And I saw OT all over it. 

So I thought, you know, as long as I'm looking into this on a personal level, why don't I look to see how that might align with what I want to do professionally? So there was a big shift. I had been in pediatrics, And all of a sudden I felt called to be exploring something different. And so Sarah's correct in that we partnered with another colleague and a student and started really just looking at what OT's role was, but hadn't put anything into action and felt that I've been talking about it long enough. It's time to do something.

And, you know, we took a look at what was out there already. and wanted to make sure we were trying to fill a gap where maybe there was were not supports in place.

So that's how we really got talking about putting together some programming within the workplace.

Lindsey Vestal

So tell us little bit about that programming. What is it that you guys are doing?

Sarah McCadden

Yeah, well, it started where we realized we wanted it to be interprofessional. And that is more the kind of culture here at our university. And Liz is so good at coordinating people and recruiting that you're like, yes, I'm part of this. And then you realize how much work you are how you have to sign yourself up for.

Sarah McCadden

But again, it's the same thing. Like it would be, we would joke texting each other, like, Okay, I've signed on, hopefully I won't be on here for three hours, because you just go down this rabbit hole of just intriguing information that you cannot get enough of. So it started with recruitment and but Liz is a brainchild. She knew exactly what it looked like in her head. And then it morphed in a great evolutionary way based on our collaboration. And I say are including a PA within our assistant professor. We have the program director who is a PT, who is orthopedic trained.

We also have the dean and head of the nursing college We have our wellness director that collaborates on both our undergraduate and graduate programming.

Sarah and Elizabeth

Oh my goodness. Well, us, of course, the fabulous duo.

Sarah McCadden
So I would say we were the coordinators.  And it's interesting how much I was mentioning this at the Women's Health Conference, how much OTs do so well with coordination.

Liz is a master within the Google Docs and the Google or organization. But I do think we have that lens to see the pieces at large that bringing these women together, we were like, what does this look like? So it started as we have this idea to do. We didn't even know. We're like, is this going to be a four week program, six week program?

But the program right now, we are just finishing up actually today, the six session. And it is an hour long session once a week over the past six weeks. And we talk about all topics from understanding your body, understanding movement and lifestyle management that allows you to enjoy exercise or wellness from a movement consideration, not just exercise. Nutrition. So a lot of those heavy hitters that you're seeing in social media,

And we also realized that we needed to have buyer beware because it's a billion dollar business that they are making money off of us. I say us because I know I'm especially going through this with my fellow colleagues. I know I'm in perimenopause.

And so there's a lot of embedded education to empower along the way. Our hopes is the next step is individualized. So really, Liz has modify the occupational profile to then have them go through an individualized exploration.

And then after that, we would have intentional follow-up programming. If like several were interested, like I would do a more extensive review of public health and sexuality.

I did a little snippet and you know, I could have talked longer. LindsEy, I could have talked longer. her

Lindsey Vestal

yeah I love it.

Sarah McCadden

so The second and third stage are not quite developed. We'reever seeking and involving. We definitely do need to do a debrief with both the group or group members, but there's been a lot a lot of intentional seeking of information from our staff.

Sarah McCadden

our participants, also the leads for the program that we have slowly made changes even as we go. And it's also been really reassuring, not that we were backtracking, but we were looking at more research when we did the women's health. And we we're like, oh my gosh, the top four or five things were exactly what this small group of women survey said, the same exact thing. That was the symptoms that were bothering them the most, which I think was sleep was the biggest thing, brain fog,

Sarah McCadden

weight gain, those were like the top three. so it was really reassuring to us. And then later we found similar programming. We're like, oh my gosh, this is like the same thing. Because i mean, you assume you're doing right by the research, but then when you see others are modeling, and there's not a model to go by either. Because we shared that some of the research said that in the US, programming and policies for menopause is at 4%. compared to the UK, which is 40%. So there's opportunities. So there's definitely the need and women are craving to want to talk about it, but there's so much stigma around it.

Elizabeth Richardson

I think Zooming out, we definitely wanted a comprehensive program. So the interprofessional piece was really important, but starting more general, which was really hard when you have individuals with significant expertise in many different areas. So we had to keep reminding ourselves amongst our facilitator group is, you know, we don't want to go too deep to start because what might be a challenge for one participant is not necessarily the same challenge for another. so Let's talk in general about what the different factors are associated with menopause.

Sarah McCadden

And the other thing we realized within that initial session is those bonds. I think that first presentation that I did at our state conference with colleagues was noticing how much people wanted to tell their stories.

They were interested in what OT's role was. They were interested in what menopause and the different transitions were, but more than anything, they wanted to say, oh my gosh, I'm not able to sleep.

I have these things going on Nobody understands what's available out there. We don't even know what direction to go. So in addition to sharing information with the primary goal of educating and increasing knowledge to therefore support and increase confidence and competence and that feeling of empowerment, we also wanted to have it be a form where people could come and connect and feel supported.

So that was that first element. We divided it and into three elements. And then as Sarah said, what the thought was then people who want to continue to explore a little bit more, we would start to do that digging deeper.

Sarah McCadden

And ultimately develop an action plan and people who wanted supports then from any one of us who were facilitators who needed individualized support to help put those you know goals into action and see how they could progress.

Sarah McCadden

Yeah, I agree. I think we went from we're going to educate and this is hard. You take educators and we're like, OK, let's pull it back. And I'm actually a support group leader. I have been a support group leader for brain injury, stroke and now a Parkinson's group.

Sarah McCadden

And we talked about the intentionality of allowing space for connectivity and creating this collective identity, destigmatizing, letting women just air out. And the funny thing is we have a couple of colleagues, including myself, who are like, oh, yes, I can relate.

Sarah McCadden

And so Facilitators, we are a part of this group too, because we're all in slightly different stages. Several of us are 40 in our early 40s, 50s, 60s. So it's wonderful too, because I'm not just learning from my colleague that just stood up there, the PA, another person that's 60 said, well, this happened to me. And I think that's so important with the narrative, the storytelling and the collective identity and helping people feel seen and connecting in the work environment for something that is unfortunately taboo in many ways to talk about within the work environment.

Lindsey Vestal

Wow, that was incredible. You two are blowing me away. And, you know, Sarah, one of the things you said was like, oh, there's not a model out there. Well, it struck me, you guys are creating it. This is the blueprint for for moving forward. It's so true, though. I mean, I can't wait for you guys to to listen to this episode and just hear what you both have just said, because it's incredibly remarkable. um And I'm, i'm yeah, i'm i'm so I'm so lit up about this.

Lindsey Vestal

So I have a couple questions regarding, okay, like you mentioned the interprofessional team, right, which is amazing, brilliant. I love that. Are they coming in at different parts throughout the six weeks to lecture? Are you guys all there the entire six weeks together? How does that work?

Sarah McCadden

I mean, that was the good and the bad of it. We had to figure out the nuances. And I remember looking at Liz and we kind of debrief afterwards. We're like, how is this? There's not going to be a rift. Like we're not going out and like.

Hey, who's got this? Who doesn't? But there were moments where I do cover this. And like the one, what was the title of it now? I'm thinking that we collaborated with a wellness on, and it talked about habits and routines, circadian rhythm, like how to self care, making time for yourself, body image. And we're like, those lines are definitely blurred.

And then just last week we had the one on more lifestyle movement and exercise. Well, our wellness person is also a menopause certified strength training coach.

Then we have PT orthopedic and we're like in the best way this can be symbiotic, but in the some senses we're like, well, turf war that's mine.

And so we dealt with a little bit of those nuances. And so when we were planning, we're like, well, yeah, I've got that. And then we're like, Lindsay, you'll appreciate this when we were talking about the body and I was like, well, I've got sexuality and pelvic health and I just redirected and I gave a lot of knowledge and I think I had to earn respect, which I think in OTs have to do in so many settings by talking.

Elizabeth Richardson

She rocked it, by the way. so you did a great job with the training.

Lindsey Vestal

I have no doubt. I have no doubt.

Sarah McCadden

But that was another turf war where and I may I feel like turf war is a harsh. It was understanding scope of practice, which I think was very enlightening. We worked through it, but I think we anticipated that there would be some nuances in the same sense.

Having P.A. talk about some of the medical nuances was very helpful. um Even my PT colleague and thinking about in wellness, talking about the regimen of what is out there that's recommended.

Sarah McCadden

But one thing they even they titled it exercise. And I was like, why can't we talk about lifestyle movement changes? Like I'm going park 50 more feet when I go to Target and walk a little bit more.

Sarah McCadden

And so there were threads where Liz and I were making consultative like recommendations. So it was more that holistic and like how can people change their lifestyle um And I feel like that's so OT.

Sarah McCadden

We talked a lot about environment and sleep.

Sarah McCadden

Again, that was a little bit of a turf war with wellness. um But we really honed in on the environment modification and how you change some of those habits. So the nuances worked out. And I think in those moments, just like you would if you were talking about a patient that you have a different viewpoint, you're going to give your knowledge. And like I said, I just bulldozed through and kept on talking it earns respect. Not that I want to do it in that way, but in some of these circles, I think it's just like our students learning to work in groups.

We had to learn each other's rhythms and scope of practice. And ultimately, I think it formed a better understanding and more respect for one another. 

Elizabeth Richardson

I would agree. I think those are things we still are working through. And your question was, are we all there at the same time or different people flowing in at you know for different presentations. And we had decided that we would all be present for every single session.

Whether or not we'll keep it that way, I'm not sure. Whether or not every, as we move the program forward through each one of the elements, we may adjust that when it's more individualized.

And as Sarah said, we definitely learned a lot through this process. And I think we are going to be learning even more through the debriefing process of how can we do this smoother so that there's not the tug and pull.

Because I think even though there are different perspectives, it's not one is right, one is wrong, or there are three different ones. It's how do we enhance what each other and support what each other is saying.

And one of the examples Sarah mentioned too, is the medical component. We have talked a lot about Western medicine, but there was also a really strong interest for a lot of our participants in exploring the traditional ancient healthcare care systems.

And that does not always necessarily align with the medical perspective. So we wanted to make sure we were trying to pull that in as well.

Lindsey Vestal

So many nuggets of wisdom there regarding scope of practice, interdisciplinary respect. And also a big theme I heard was really letting people know that we have a lane here as well.

And I really appreciate you both bringing that up because I know this program went incredibly successful for everybody involved, but that doesn't mean there's not things to figure out along the way and things to learn from.

And so I think as OTs, we know we always have to be a bit of an advocate and we're definitely advocates for our clients. And it's a really beautiful reminder

to be an advocate for ourselves as well. So I love that. I'm really curious about how are you got your attendees. How did you guys recruit from the community and and let people know about this amazing program? Hmm.

Sarah McCadden

Sure. Well, we started January a year ago. Yes. in starting And there is wellness week here and there's several different ways people can market it but that was a component.

Liz used to run a clinic, so she had some experience with that. Most of us are novices, so that was interesting. But we put together a packet that gave a little bit of information from an element one standard element two and element three to give a teaser of what would they be gaining from that experience.

So multiple information, yeah informational emails went out. In addition, Liz and our wellness director had booths both at our undergraduate campus and our graduate campus in health sciences.

And so they were able to provide information. We had several students very interested. They're interested in pursuing women's health. But i would say um a lot of it was surveys. Do you want to speak to lot of the surveys that you sent out? 

Elizabeth Richardson
I love to do surveys.

I love gathering information, love seeing the numbers, love seeing the open responses. So, yes, we constructed a couple of surveys just to ask, what are your interests? Are you interested in a program like this?

If so, what would work best for you? Because we actually have two different campuses and we have online programs, we have residential programs.

So just trying to figure out what would work best for people. And then in the guiding the development of the program, we wanted to know what is it that you would want to get out of a program like this?

And we were surprised at how many people quickly responded and shared that information. We did initially plan to launch the program in the spring. And fortunately we had one of our facilitators who said, maybe we need to give this a little bit more time, which looking back was a really good idea.

But even after taking a little bit of a gap and reaching out again to the community, we heard loud and clear that we really would love this program and these are things that would be important to us.

Sarah McCadden

Yeah, and I would just gonna explain. So when we talk about our community, we had to decide who are we serving here? And that's a big part of marketing, right?

And so we decided on faculty and staff internally. And so we are at Murphy Deming College of Health Sciences. but we're a part of the grand community of Mary Baldwin University.

And so we knew we wanted to support women at work, but the reality is menopause doesn't stop before you go to work. And so the lines of the education that we provided provided wellness support for living life.

And but we at one point were like, do we include students? And then the numbers was a consideration. We're like the intimacy of the conversations that we're going to have and want people to share.

We decided we didn't want 20 to 30. And we were able to talk to a local university. UVA, they ran a similar program and they had online and she was like, it was almost too much that we could have just had the intimacy of like 10 to 15 instead of 20 to 25 because of allowing people to connect and talk and share.

So yes, faculty and staff and people were just so thankful. You mentioned that we were having a conversation just before this. They were so thankful for the opportunity to have a program like this because the noise online is huge.

I mean, is amplified. And once they have your algorithm, they have mine. I don't know if they have yours, Liz. You are being inated inundated. and i mean, half mine is pelvic health. The rest is all menopause. And I'm like, ooh, what's this? I'm intrigued.

Then let me like bet it. Like, is this accurate? And so we're trying to take out all the betting and try to give very intentional evidence informed information. But the reality what we know about menopause is like just Liz just mentioned.

I have been so fortunate to have a multitude of different symptoms. And she was like, yeah, it wasn't that bad.

and that's why, and we as OTs know everyone's story is so unique. So it was very important. Like I put a wrench in it. I was like, I think we should have a workbook, but guess what happens when you have a workbook, you have to develop it.

So that's where I think the extra time worked really well.

Not that the workbook is perfect because it was our first stab at it, but, It was very important to me because I know there's so much science behind people writing and making sure they walk away from a session.

And if they heard 10 things, maybe one thing they related to and writing it down. And we also embedded reflection opportunities, not only in the workbook, but also in our session.

So those nuances of these little details, I think were ironed out that the extension actually worked in our favor. But us being the people we are, like, that could been better. What could we have done? And after each session, we're like, hmm.

So I think this is always a good thing. But we I think many times you probably said it. We're like, this is the first time we're doing this. um But I do think a lot of great things came from that.

Elizabeth Richardson

Yeah. And Lindsay, as far as the participants go to we, there was so much interest, but then in gathering information about logistics, what would work for everyone?

There was a lot of variation. So online versus in-person, this location,that location. Yeah. And ultimately there were some who we had to make decisions on how are we going to do it this time?

Not that we can't do it another way at a different time. And, the responses we got from people who weren't able to participate was you know expressing that disappointment and expressing also just appreciation for you know having programs like this. And if we ever offer it in a different way at a different time that they would definitely be interested joining.

Sarah McCadden

if it wasn't conveyed, we decided on in-person. And there was a lot of discussion, I feel like, about that and debating. But what was it, the third or fourth session? where like, let's make it hybrid.

And that comes with its own nuances.

Elizabeth Richardson

Well, we knew it would come with different nuances, both from a just ah environmental context perspective of those connections being made in person. And you have some people you know who are coming in remotely.

And also just from the facilitators, there were facilitators, and I think most of us would prefer in person. And so we decided to go in that direction.

Lindsey Vestal

I think what I heard you guys say ended up being about 20 to 25 participants.Is that correct?

Sarah McCadden

No, i think we were open to it, but we ended up, how many is it now? 

Elizabeth Richardson
We have 14 altogether. 

Lindsey Vestal

Okay. 14 altogether and it was not students for this version, correct?

Sarah McCadden

Correct. And so focusing on work wellness, we wanted to serve our community of colleagues. And so for this community is faculty and staff. And we realized that we may have someone come in that is their own content expert.

And then we have some that are like, love to learn more, have not gone down the Benny hole of social media. And so It's that's where we wanted to come in with a broad lens. So but I think there's students that may be interested. That's part of our future discussions. But our focus being on work wellness, our thought is this can start conversations with supervisors. This can start advocacy for their own needs if they're having certain symptoms associated with it.

And we have no policies. We have no policies currently. So that is a larger charge. And then our hope is to just disseminate to other regional um communities as well and start the conversation so that it starts to be embedded that we can get over that hump of 3 to 4% and start making this to be um just within policies and the nuances of it not being so taboo or stigmatized to have these conversations. because some of the things that the Society of Women's Health Research talked about, and this made me so sad as someone that has continued to drive in my career, not that I haven't had things that have caused ricochets, but they talked about one in four women considered or did not pursue leadership going through menopause at work.

One in three considered or did reduce workload, so moving to maybe part-time, and then two out of five considered or pursued new jobs. So we can do better.

Elizabeth Richardson

And to add on to that, if we think about it as a profession, we're 90% women.

And of that 90%, 70% of that are over 35 years old, So our profession alone, even if we are not looking at providing services to others, how do we take care of ourselves as women in a profession that is primarily women within those ages.

Lindsey Vestal

100%. Absolutely. Thinking back over the last six weeks, which it is really uncanny, it's your last meeting today, you sarah I think this, you know, we had some challenges with scheduling this podcast and now I know why.

It needed to happen. It needed to happen today. But thinking back over those last, these last six weeks, um specifically the last six weeks, was we focused a lot on our conversation today, which I've loved, about the process and, you know, kind of the process over the past year of developing a program like this Thinking about the attendees, the 14 attendees that you guys have been joined by, were there any like you memorable moments, highlights, success stories, anything that really stands out when you kind of think about the journey that the attendees have been on in the last six weeks?

Sarah McCadden

I think just seeing, because at first I can, even when I was talking about these taboo topics of sex and everything else in my head, I was like, I need an hour and people were going to talk about it and we didn't have the hour.

but having people feel comfortable to talk about a few things that are bothering them. having someone say, I decided to figure out something that I like for creative exploration. to reduce anxiety, to do self care for myself and people saying they're doing this one thing different. 

And for me, that was something that resounded because I think that's what we wanted with the workbook and to be more broad, that if they leave one session or if one of three, they had something they didn't happen for, then we've been successful. And a big part of it, Liz and I explored different theories And we looked at self-determination, but we ended up, we were like, I mean, empowerment, let's just not go with empowerment because of the name. And like, yes, but we did a deep dive and we're like, this is everything we want. When we want people to have the tools that they need tool or tools and to feel empowered and self be their own self advocates. And that resounded, I think throughout what, what was your biggest takeaway?

Elizabeth Richardson
I think also we had women who were able to contribute. So the participants, we learned so much from them as well. And I think they also had moments where they realized I'm on the right track.

I've been doing this reassuring doing that. Yes. And so sometimes there was information that we didn't know. We had an anatomist who was part of the group and they were able to share information at a micro level that perhaps we'd did not have that information.

And then we had others who had background you know as you know a certain way of eating, a certain type of diet that they were able to share what they used or different supplements that they had tried. So that exchange of information and recognizing that not only am I learning new information, but really the information and exploration that I've done so far in life, I'm on the right path. I'm going in the right direction.

Lindsey Vestal

That's amazing. So where do you guys see menopause matters program going next? What's what's version 2.0?

Sarah McCadden

I think me being a program development is like, I want to sit and simmer in it. But we do have conceptualized ideas of element two and element three.

Sarah McCadden

So I think part of that is TBD. We need to find out more both from our participants and also the facilitators. But the anticipated next route is the element two, where if people choose on the journey with us a little bit further, that they can do some self-exploration and creating that own empowered wellness plan to connect with any of us from the group on topics that are more intriguing that they want to find out more and and develop a plan that works for them.

So the next step would be people pulling out and having almost wellness discussions with us. But we've been very and intentional in saying in this moment we are providing education, and this would be a form that can help guide you and help explore more, but being sure to not provide specific advice, if that makes sense.

So I think the next step would be that individualized.

Elizabeth Richardson

And I think on the bigger level is perhaps refining this, packaging it so that we could take it to other organizations, not just other universities, but other companies,

to primary care offices and say, hey, you know we can work together and offer this type of program out in the community to empower women.

And also we realized all the nuances as far as the different stages go. So even though right now our group is very mixed and represent participants who are my age and participants who are Sarah's age and a little bit younger than that.

So those different stages of the menopause transition But I think there are times where it's important to be more targeted. 

So actually having programming that is designated for those who are just entering the perimenopause stage or those who are postmenopausal because our experiences and what we need at those different times are going to be different.

And I think one other big conversation we've had as a full group is we need to start earlier. You know, when we are entering or have entered perimenopause, it's not too late, but we could help if we were prepared even sooner. So having those conversations, mid twenties, early thirties, how to prepare your body, how to prepare your mind, really reframing what menopause is, that it's not just this awful stage that you're going to go into and you're

not going things life is not going to be good you know once you get to that point but that there are a lot of good things that come along with that transition and preparing ourselves in that way is just a mindset and a shift there

Sarah McCadden
Yeah and i shared this with the women's health conference in this one book and Evading me right now, but she talked about, oh the menopause brain. That's what it is. She talked about the changes with the brain and the body. And she was like, this isn't like a downgrade or a downshift. like And I'm ah paraphrasing, but she said, this is an upgrade.Literally, your body is preparing for this upgrade.

And i think it there it has so much negative connotations surrounding the word menopause that, oh, so I’m going to be sweating in the middle of like an event or so having that reframing and empowering women early on. And so even like some of our marketing change that we made very intentional decisions to say, even if you're not in the stages, come with us if you want to learn more.

Sarah McCadden

And we're realizing how much we can empower women by potentially educating them in their twenties and thirties to anticipate lifestyle changes so that it is a smoother upgrade.

Lindsey Vestal

I love that. That's such fantastic language. Oh, Sarah and Elizabeth, I really can't thank you both enough for joining me today. This was just such an inspiring conversation. I thank you for taking us on the journey of what this process has been like and just being so candid in the entire ups and downs, which projects like this always have. And my hope and goal too is that more collaborations come from this conversation and it's easier and easier for OTs across the country to be spearheading programs like this, which we know just need to be happening more and more. So thank you for all the work you do and for and for sharing all of us with us today.

Sarah McCadden

Oh my gosh. Well, thank you. I literally told Liz, I was like, I think Lindsay was joking when like we were closing up all of the level one functional pelvic health.

Sarah McCadden

and you mentioned, you're like, so Sarah, I'm speaking to you about being on my podcast.

Sarah McCadden

And so here we are. And I'm just so thankful for the time. and you can tell hopefully from our passion. I'm just so thankful for this collaboration that has happened and continues to, I think I mentioned to you, we take walks and we end up talking life and all things. And so there's been so many things that develop from these collaborations are so meaningful. And when you can't stop, you know you're doing the right thing.

Elizabeth Richardson

Thanks for having us.

Lindsey Vestal

That's a perfect. Oh, thank you. If you can't stop, you're doing the right thing. That's brilliant. Thank you both.

Outro

Thanks for listening to another episode of OTs and Pelvic Health. If you haven't already, hop onto Facebook and join my group, OTs for Pelvic Health, where we have thousands of OTs at all stages of their pelvic health career journey. This is such an incredibly supportive community where I go live each and every week. If you love this episode, please take a screenshot of this episode on your phone and post it to IG, Facebook, wherever you post your stuff, and be sure to tag me and let me know why you like this episode. This will help me to create in the future what you want to hear more of. Thanks again for listening to the OTs and Pelvic Health podcast.