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The Father's Business Podcast
The Father's Business Podcast
Between Crucifixion and Resurrection: The Long View of Easter
What happens when we slow down and fully experience each day of Easter weekend? In this heartfelt conversation, Elizabeth Gunter Powell and Kimberly Roddy explore the profound depths of the Easter narrative, particularly focusing on the often-overlooked Saturday – that space between crucifixion and resurrection where grief, confusion, and waiting converge.
The resurrection isn't merely a historical event to celebrate annually – it's the source of transformative power available daily. The same power that raised Christ from death now lives within believers. Paul's guidance from 1 Corinthians 15 becomes our roadmap: "Stand firm, let nothing move you," knowing that death has been swallowed up in victory.
Whether you're experiencing personal resurrection or still waiting in a Saturday moment, discover how the Easter story offers profound hope for every season of life. Join us to explore how we can access resurrection power for the areas in our lives that need renewal, restoration, and rebirth.
Thank you. Thank you. The Father's Business was founded by Sylvia Gunter to encourage people to a deeper relationship with God. I'm Elizabeth Gunter Powell.
Speaker 2:And I am Kimberly Roddy. Welcome to the Father's Business Podcast. We are so glad that you've joined us.
Speaker 1:I'd just like to welcome everyone to our podcast. And it is Easter week, and where I find myself lingering is kind of in that time between the crucifixion and the resurrection. I think every year as we approach Easter, we kind of approach it from where we find ourselves in our lives, as I watch my family continue to walk through grief and knowing that God is good and he has a plan, but sometimes not fully understanding why things happen the way they do. I think that's why my mind drifts more to that time of you know we're quick to call it Good Friday because from our perspective in history, we know what happened, but for those that were really in that moment, they lost a friend, they lost their teacher, they lost their mentor on Friday and they didn't know what was happening next. And so, kimberly, we're just going to spend some time together today talking about Easter and different layers and things that we can pull out of the Easter story that could be an encouragement to us today. Yeah, when you think about Easter.
Speaker 2:If you look at the church calendar, we look at Holy Week, we look typically at Maundy Thursday, good Friday, I think some have called Saturday like Silent Saturday.
Speaker 1:Good name for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then Resurrection Sunday and if you look at it in the church calendar liturgically, you can kind of look at the progression of the narrative of Jesus's life there in God's work.
Speaker 2:So you've got that Maundy Thursday aspect is the gathering together of the disciples and Jesus in the upper room he was washing their feet and then there was the betrayal by Judas.
Speaker 2:So Maundy Thursday is the word Maundy comes from the Latin word mandatum, which means command, and that refers to the command that Jesus gave his disciples when they were sharing what became known as the Last Supper, and I think that would be the command where he says a new command I give you to love one another just as I have loved you. It can also mean Holy Thursday, covenant Thursday, communion Thursday, because we often in churches you can celebrate or commemorate that Last Su supper, the Lord's Supper, and so you think about that like, relationally, jesus is with his brothers, he's with his disciples, he's with his friends, his followers, the people that knew him well, that spent time with him, the men and women who were closest to him, friendship, wise. And then we have what we call Good Friday, which you mentioned. We think of it as good, but I think for them. They're like this was an awful Friday.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was a horrible Friday, yeah, and I even did some research this week Like why do we call it Good Friday? I mean, I get it because, from our perspective, jesus dying for our sins is the greatest thing he could have ever done. What I found in my research is the first time it's called Good Friday in writing that they know of is the 1200s, and it's also been called Holy Friday. It was also called Long Friday for many years, which I think that is a more appropriate term for it, because all of the events that are happening overnight Thursday into Friday morning to the Cursed Fiction, it was a very long Friday. In the Danish language that's what they still call. It is long Friday. I found it kind of interesting. I know some of it is because we don't have historical records from 33 AD necessarily, but I find it interesting that it took over a thousand years before in documents that we have anyone referred to that day as good, and as we were preparing for this podcast, I was spending some time with my mom and I was just like you know, mom, what's your perspective on Easter?
Speaker 1:Like what's something, a principle or something that you want to take out of Easter, and she mentioned the same thing she's like well, you know we call it Good Friday, but Jesus didn't want to do it. He begged his father if there's any other way, don't make me go through this because he knew exactly how hard it was going to be, both for his spirit, his soul and his body to go through this. She's like you know, what I've learned is you've got to ask God to give you the long view, or to give you long distance eyes, because we can look back because we do have the long view, or or to give you long distance eyes because we can look back because we do have the long view, and go. That was an incredible Friday because it meant that we are born again. And she was just saying you know, if, if I can have long distance view for the crucifixion, I pray in the smaller things in my life, and even in the things that I think are a big crisis in my life, that God would give me that ability to have a long distance view and not just sit in the feeling of this hurts, this is hard.
Speaker 1:Therefore, it can't be God, because I mean, like you said, kimberly, those were his dearest friends and you think they were the ones around the cross that day they watched him die. I think in their hearts in any moment they thought well, jesus is just going to overcome all this and he's going to come off the cross. And what was that feeling when he took his last breath and they saw their friend dead hanging on a cross? I mean, that had to have been so hard and in that moment it would have been completely natural for them to think this can't be God, because God wouldn't do this, god wouldn't kill his own son. I like mom's phrase of having long distance eyes as we look at whatever it is that we're going through in the moment, that there's a lot more going on than what we know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just as you were saying that, I was thinking about how quick we are to want something that is out in the distance to be seen up close, not just metaphorically. I mean, you're talking about a long-term view, but I'm thinking about just yesterday. We were standing out on the back deck and we have some water back behind us. There was a heron directly across the water on the other side and I said is that a heron? It was standing very tall and erect, like you know, very tall, and I stared for a moment like maybe it's just a bush, you know a bush, with no leaves or whatever. And then you saw it move and you're like no, that's a heron. And you watched it walk along the land. And then there's a tree that has basically fallen into the water and I think that tree is lovely, especially in the fall when it has. It still has life to it a little bit, and so there's some leaves that then they have the reflection in the water. But there were some turtles sunbathing at the at the base of the tree and then I watched the heron walk on to the tree. The tree is horizontal with the water and I basically watched the heron walking out on the tree and I immediately went inside and got the binoculars because I wanted to see it up close, I wanted to watch the movement, I wanted to make sure it really was a heron I wanted to see. And then cause it started blending in with the tree and there was a moment where I tried to show it to my friend and she was like I can't find it, I can't find where is it, and I'm like it's right there, it's right there.
Speaker 2:And you know how, how often do I think about like Jesus, like we, we can't see him. We, we have the phrase that we use all the time of the moon is round and we, we trust, and we, we have faith. But in this moment it was I can't see. It was horror and terror on that Friday Dan Allender used those words one time when I heard him talking about it the fact that that day for them was awful, it was loss. They didn't have the retro view that we have, they had the up close and personal. This is all. I got in front of me right here and Jesus had said things I mean no doubt right, like he had given them lots of parables and lots of sayings and lots of prophecy about what was coming, but they were in the middle of understanding that.
Speaker 1:Right. I think it's quick. For me personally, I'll say we but me personally can be quick to judge them. Like, how did they not see it? Jesus is saying if you tear this temple down, I'll rebuild it in three days. It's like hello.
Speaker 1:But this is not at all who they were expecting. First they thought he was going to come as a king and he didn't. And then they thought, well, ok, he's still going to save us, but he's not, he's gone. And the person that they could look in the eye and talk to and he could hug them and touch them wasn't there anymore. I mean I would love I mean, kimberly, you and I both would love to be face to face with Jesus, with skin on, and have him look us in the eye and tell us that he loves us. And they had that experience over three years of his ministry and then, all of a sudden, that's taken away from you. I mean it was just you know, as you're saying, the horror of it, just the sights and the sounds of the torture, of the nails being put through his hand, of the groaning and the agony that was going on not only in him but the other two people on the cross with him. I mean there's. There's just so much trauma on that Friday.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't want to dismiss Friday, but I started about Saturday, right, and so Saturday yeah, friday and Saturday kind of go together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's the Sunday. That's so different than the other two, right, and so it's fun.
Speaker 2:For the last week I have kind of been focused on a funeral that I attended and the loss for that family, the loss for this church and community. But every day there is loss for people. All of us are experiencing loss, whether you've experienced it personally or you turn on the news or you're going to have a friend or someone in the world is experiencing loss and death. And I was thinking about what I heard Scott Saul say over the weekend. He said something. This is not a direct quote, but what I took away from it was he said our lamenting, our weeping, is a way to protest with God that this is not the way things are meant to be.
Speaker 2:You think about Jesus weeping when Lazarus died? Death is not a part of life, it's an enemy. It's an enemy and on that Friday and that Saturday of Holy Week that we remember, it was an enemy. And so enemies create trauma, like you said, and there's a level of deep loss and in that trauma, in that loss, in that hurt, grief has to be expressed, Lament needs to be expressed. And when I was sitting at this funeral on Saturday, I just sat there and it was a beautiful service. There was a lot of music, because this woman loved music and she actually knew she was passing away and she planned her funeral long in advance. And she said to those that were leading it I don't want you talking as much about me as you talk about Jesus.
Speaker 2:She wanted us to sing and worship the Lord. She wanted his name to be lifted up because she lives after Sunday. Right, she lives. Right after Sunday right, she lives in resurrection. But in that sitting there, sitting there in that service, I thought to myself I am so thankful for this moment to grieve.
Speaker 2:And Elizabeth, you know me better than probably anybody listening to this. But I don't love grieving, I don't love sitting in sadness. But in that moment I was so thankful for the opportunity to set aside an hour or two of my day to sit down in lament, to sit in a space of weeping. There is the tension when we talk about a relationship with Jesus. There is the tension Saturday. Is that tension Saturday? Is that tension between what happened Friday and what happened Sunday?
Speaker 1:You know, kim, as you're talking about needing to grieve and lament and holding space for Saturday and not jumping from Friday to Sunday. Yes, I see that in the smaller context of the Easter story, but where we are right now is kind of living in the Saturday Because, as you said, death was never part of God's plan. There was no death in Eden until sin entered, but we're living in a part of time where death is a very real part of our lives. Not only do we lose people, but things in nature die. There is death in all layers of this earth that we live in and we're waiting for a second coming, almost like that's. The new Sunday is. We're waiting when Jesus is going to come back and all of the pain and all the shame and all the hurt and all the death and the sickness and all the things that we're having to battle with right now in our lives is going to be gone. Our lives is going to be gone and, yes, we have the beautiful word of God that points to the fact that it's coming. But I think in a lot of ways similar to the disciples where Jesus told them hey, here's what's going to happen and this is what I'm going to do for you, and I don't want you to be ignorant as to things that are going to come. It's one thing to hear it and it's another thing to experience it.
Speaker 1:One of the things I've been struck with so much throughout the last several years of the journey that I've been on with my dad and mom and just our whole family, is that grief and lament and faith are not opposites, like they don't cancel each other out, because I think we're really quick to say if it's hard, it can't be God, if it hurts, it can't be God. If I fail at something, then God wasn't in it and it's like, no, it's okay. Like you're saying, we need to grieve, we need to fully embrace the pain of the things that we're going through, because it makes the coming of Jesus so much sweeter and I'm talking both our whole. You know all of history, but I'm also talking about my own life. When you are in something that is hard and it's not you're like God could make this so much easier, he could have acted differently, he could have chosen to do things differently, but the pain that we walk through makes the victory that much sweeter when it does come, whether it's on this side of heaven or the other. But I agree with you, and I don't know that either one of us really can really articulate what we've been feeling in our hearts and our spirits.
Speaker 1:But there's just this sense of don't rush through Easter weekend, don't rush from Jesus died to hallelujah he saved there. There is, there is a reason why he was in the tomb as long as he was. I don't fully understand it. I mean that that's God's symbolism and that's God's design. But there's something in the in-between between the crucifixion and the resurrection that we're supposed to wrestle with. But it's not fun, sure, which is why I think we are quick to go.
Speaker 1:But he was risen again, you know, and let's get to that part, because I mean, even Jesus in the garden said, if there's any other way, I don't want to do this. He was, you know, hemorrhaging the drops of blood coming out of his forehead because he was under so much stress thinking of what he had to do. But on that long distance view for the joy set before him, he endured the cross Right. And so it's this. It's this mixture of needing to hold on to that long distance view, because without it we have no hope, but also being able to be real in the moment and say, god, I don't like this, and if you have another idea, I'm open, because I really don't like this one. Yeah, he walks with us through that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he walks with us through that Well, and there's something that's being formed in us in the middle of that agony, in the middle of that trauma, in the middle of that pain and that grief and that longing, there's something being formed in us and if we can take that and we can connect it to his resurrection and celebrating that, then that's going to take us deeper in our journey as well as believers. But I was thinking about Rachel Clinton Chen. She had a quote when she was talking about Friday and Saturday.
Speaker 2:She says Holy Saturday has become a day that I make space to tell the truth about the places of despair where I trust Jesus is able to get into the pit with me and is not asking me to climb out of that pit on my own. We have to express lament and grief. The process of that does something that's almost indescribable. One of the phrases that I've used over the years is One of the phrases that I've used over the years is I would not want to go through losing my father again the way that I did, but I won't change who I've become as a result of that experience.
Speaker 2:Exactly, that's the only way I know how to put words to it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I think a lot of times we don't want to sit in the trauma, we don't want to sit in the trauma.
Speaker 2:We don't want to sit in the despair, we don't want to sit in the loss and the grief and the lament. And yet when we do that, like on Saturday at this funeral, when I was doing that, I was comforted. I recognize some things. I experienced some things in a different way and, like you said, it's not fun. It's not fun, but if we can hold that tension, and I think of holding tension, I don't know. You think of the silly illustration of a kid, a teenager, learning to drive, where the driving instructor puts the cup of coffee up on the dashboard, you know, drive without knocking the coffee off the dashboard or letting the coffee spill out of the cup or whatever. There's a tension in that, like I've got to be careful, I've got to pay attention, I've got to be aware. Holding tension means being aware and not just quickly go. And Jesus is coming on Sunday, let's go celebrate, let's show up at church on Easter Sunday and let's celebrate the resurrection. It's let's also remember Thursday, friday and Saturday.
Speaker 1:You know, kimberly, as I, as you just kind of walk your way through the events leading up to the crucifixion and through the resurrection, leading up to the crucifixion and through the resurrection. Another thing I've been struck by is there's so many different types of pain and trauma that are experienced. You know whether I mean we definitely talk about death. That is a definite trauma, but there's also the pain of betrayal of someone that you thought had your back and doesn't, of someone that you thought had your back and doesn't. There are so many different points in the story where people are lonely, because Jesus says I'm going somewhere and you can't go with me, and Peter's like where are you going that I can't follow you. So you have all the week leading up to it. You have the death, you have the confusion and the darkness of Saturday. You have the resurrection, but even after the resurrection, jesus didn't stay forever, like he was on the earth for a while and appeared to certain people. But all of those people that were used to having day to day life face to face with him, that we're used to having day-to-day life face-to-face with him, he's gone. And so I think, wherever we find ourselves, whatever type of pain we might be going through, not to mention the physical pain that Jesus went through on the cross. There are people that live with chronic pain all the time, or maybe it's just you fell and you broke something and so for a season, your shoulder, your knee, your hip, your whatever is injured.
Speaker 1:Take the time to kind of go through the entire story, and it's not something that I've done, but I really want to do. I'm doing this off the memory of what I remember of Holy Week. How many different types of pain and trauma did Jesus experience during that week? That are types of pain and trauma that we go through. He went through physical pain, he went through emotional pain, he went through the spiritual pain of being separated from his father and having God turn his back on him, and there was also the pain of being misunderstood. I mean, even as he is being brought into Jerusalem on a donkey and people are saying, hosanna, he knew, those same people are going to turn on him six days later or five days later, and it's just.
Speaker 1:There's so much wrapped up in this story and I hope what it helps us do is to find comfort that, whatever you're going through, jesus has been there and we can lean on him and we can say he not only experienced all those things, but he defeated all of them. He defeated every single type of pain that you and I are going to go through. So I agree with you and I want to sit in that tension of, yes, we have victory. But also Jesus can sit with me in my pain and I can be open with him and I can cry to him about it and he knows what I've been through, because there's nothing that we are going to go through that Jesus hasn't experienced in some way.
Speaker 2:Right, I was thinking that he felt the betrayal of Judas and Peter, of Judas and Peter, right, right, I think on Friday, a lot of the disciples felt betrayed by him because they didn't understand. But as far as Jesus, he felt betrayed as well, and I'm even thinking about when he was being arrested. He's being arrested by supposedly his enemies, and so Peter wants to take justice and he goes and slashes the guy's ear off, right, right, yeah, and Jesus stops him. And that just stood out to me as we, as as I was listening to you, cause I'm like in the face of where Jesus could have said yeah, this is unjust, this is not right, yeah, yeah, yeah, peter, yeah, yeah, yeah he's saying no, like that wasn't the way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's not the way and can I inject?
Speaker 1:here? Jesus picks up the ear and puts it back on the man's head and those people still think they need to arrest him. Right, right, seriously right?
Speaker 2:yeah, he didn't. He didn't just say to peter no, no, don't do that. That's not the way, there's a better way. He turned and healed the guy, like right thank you for giving my ear back. And you're, and you're, arrested yeah, and guess what else we're gonna do to you? Right, let's talk about the cat of nine tails. Let's talk about, you know, the crucifixion and all that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just.
Speaker 1:Yeah, have you ever done something nice for someone and they did not show appreciation back to you? I mean, come on, Right, Right, Right. I mean every. I mean from the big stuff to the small stuff. Jesus has experienced it all and he knows what it feels like to be misunderstood and unappreciated. And he knows what it feels like to be misunderstood and unappreciated, and I mean throughout the entire mock trials. They're trying to get him to declare that he is who he says that he is and making fun days. And yet he did it for the joy set before him. And I also believe he had to go through all of that because he promised that he was going to be Emmanuel, God with us. So he has to experience all the things that we've experienced.
Speaker 2:And then on Sunday, just for those of us who love a little justice, he did get justice, he did he's like I'll come back, go ahead, take your best shot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, look at this. Yeah, yeah, because he knew it wasn't the end of the story. He knew that there was more to come and um, and we are so grateful for that. Moving on to the, the sunday, the resurrection part of things.
Speaker 1:As I think about the resurrection, I think it's another one of those stories. I'm going to tell my age. Back when I was a child, we had flannel graphs where you stuck the little characters up on the flannel board and we thought that was so amazing yes, you do, because you're the same age I am, we're close to it and we thought that was like high tech, you know, with little flannel people going up on the blackboard. But I think, just as I've heard all those stories since I was a child, somehow the resurrection can also feel like a flannel graph story. Sometimes it's like do I fully get that he was dead, that he went against all the forces of hell, like all that Jesus went through and then he was raised from the dead and the power and the glory and the holiness that it took to do that and one I don't think our human minds can grasp that. And then I think a lot of us like we'll go to church Sunday, we'll have the nice meal afterwards, we'll have a wonderful family time. And then it's like, okay, boom, here's Monday, let's move on.
Speaker 1:And I'm guilty of this as well. I'm not trying to say I've got my act together at all, but it's like I want to not let resurrection just be a random Sunday in the spring. I want the resurrection to inform everything that I do, because the resurrection does change everything. We glory in the cross, yes, because he was the sacrifice, but the power is in the resurrection, because if Jesus had died for our sins and that was it then that wouldn't have been the complete story. And so I'm just drawn to that verse in Ephesians where Paul's praying for the disciples and he says I pray that you will begin to understand how incredibly great his power is to help those who believe in him. It is that same mighty power that raised Christ from the dead and seated him in the place of honor at God's right hand in heaven. And we have access to that.
Speaker 1:But do I wake up every morning saying I have the full power of the resurrection at my disposal? No, sadly. I wake up thinking about everything that I've got to get done and everything, all the mountains that are in front of me and the things that feel impossible and trying to figure out how I'm going to make it happen. That feel impossible and trying to figure out how I'm going to make it happen, instead of stopping myself to say I have the full power of the resurrection at my disposal and that doesn't mean it's going to be easy, because, look, it wasn't easy for Jesus. I mean, if you look at all throughout Holy Week, just because you're God's favorite doesn't mean he doesn't lets you not have pain and suffering. But there is something in the power of the resurrection that I feel I need to. We all need to be tapping into more than we are.
Speaker 2:So, elizabeth, when I hear you say those things, I'm thinking of 1 Corinthians 15. And Paul starts in that chapter and this is the end of the first letter that he's written to the church at Corinth he starts by talking about the resurrection of Christ. So this is the end of the first letter that he's written to the church at Corinth. He starts by talking about the resurrection of Christ. So this is his premise. His premise is what we're talking about, the resurrection of Christ. And he says for what I received I passed on to you as the first importance, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, that he was buried and he was raised on the third day according to the scriptures. And he goes on and he talks about that.
Speaker 2:He says a lot of things in chapter 15. He gets to the end of the chapter and this is what he says Death has been swallowed up in victory. Where oh death is your victory? Where, oh death is your sting? The sting of death is sin, the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, he gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ, verse 58. Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm, let nothing move. You Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain. So how do we live in Sunday? Right there we stand firm.
Speaker 2:We stand on Sunday. We stand and it sounds simple. It's not simple to live that out.
Speaker 1:It's not.
Speaker 2:Stand firm, let nothing move you. So the resurrection has come, the hope of the gospel is fulfilled in Jesus and the work that he has accomplished. So we've experienced Thursday, we've experienced Friday, we've experienced Saturday, and now the tension's been released. We have Sunday. So I can't muster up enough energy to go. I got to strive to Sunday.
Speaker 2:I've got to believe that Jesus did what he did, that he is who he says he is, and I stand firm and I let nothing move me, which it's like the wind, right, like when we stand, nothing move you toss you, not tossed about by the wind, we're not tossed about by the wind, we're not tossed about by the wind, but but we stand firm. It's that imagery of just standing firm. The winds may be blowing, the tornado may be coming, the storms are coming, and we are standing firm, grounded, grounded in what Jesus accomplished and knowing that I'm still going to continue to grieve and lament and live in sin this side of eternity, but God, because on this side of Sunday there is but God. So it is a continual renewal of my mind, renewal of my alignment with his spirit and my spirit, and knowing and believing that what he did on the cross, with his death, burial and resurrection not just was sufficient, but it is sufficient, and that's hard to do, but that's what Paul says right here Let nothing move you. Death has been swallowed up in victory.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I think whatever we find ourselves in, just as we can be an outsider looking at the Easter story and say we can rejoice in Friday because we have seen what happens on Sunday, so is God looking at each of our lives and wherever we are.
Speaker 1:Some of us may be in the resurrection part and are seeing God answering prayers, but some of us are in other places and we're waiting for that resurrection.
Speaker 1:In that situation in our life or this circumstance we find ourselves in, we can be steadfast and we can stand and we can be at peace because we know God knows the end of the story. And so that long distance vision of knowing whatever's going on in my life right now, whatever's going on in my work life, my home life, church life, wherever I see things that aren't as they should be, that aren't as in heaven, on earth right now, this is at the end of the story and there is a resurrection coming, because he is the God of the resurrection, and so for all of us, we can cling to the truth of Romans 8, 11, that the spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead is living in us, and so we have the same power and the same ability to call upon the God of the resurrection and ask him to bring resurrection in the areas of our life where we need it, and so it can be a good Friday and it can be a happy Easter, because of what Jesus has done for us.
Speaker 2:So we say to you, and I say to you Elizabeth, happy Easter.
Speaker 1:And I say he is risen. He is risen indeed, Hallelujah. I want to thank you for listening to the Father's Business Podcast. This podcast is made possible through donations by people like you. To donate, go to wwwTheFathersBusinesscom. Be sure to follow us at the Fathers Biz on Instagram and Facebook. Thank you, thank you.
