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The Father's Business Podcast
The Father's Business Podcast
Summer Series: Safe in the Father's Heart: Interview with Bob Brennan
What happens when someone who grew up without a father becomes a father figure to many? In this powerful conversation with Bob Brennan, we discover how wounds can transform into ministry and brokenness into blessing.
Bob's journey begins with a childhood marked by an alcoholic, absent father who eventually passed away when Bob was just 15 years old. This absence created a void that affected not only his understanding of earthly fatherhood but also his perception of God as Father. For decades, Bob struggled to experience God as present and loving, maintaining a distant relationship much like the one he had with his own father.
Today, Bob serves as an elementary school principal who knows children by name, gets down on the floor with kindergartners, and shows compassion to students struggling emotionally. At church, he mentors young men, creating safe spaces for them to be authentic and heard. With his four daughters, he demonstrates the unconditional love he wishes he had received as a child.
What's particularly striking about Bob's story is his approach to spiritual fathering. Rather than focusing on behavior modification, he prays specifically for aspects of the fruit of the Spirit that each person needs to develop. He remains patient with God's timing, understanding that his role is to love consistently while God does the transforming work.
For anyone feeling discouraged about children who have wandered from faith or struggling with their own father wounds, Bob offers this wisdom: love unconditionally without condoning harmful behaviors, be patient, and recognize that ultimately, we are not God. When we release our need to control outcomes and trust God's perfect timing, we find freedom and peace in our role as spiritual fathers and mothers.
Want to experience more of this kind of spiritual encouragement? Join us at Rooted and Resilient in Charlotte this October. Register today at thefathersbusiness.com and discover how you too can find healing and become a source of blessing to others.
The Father's Business was founded by Sylvia Gunter to encourage people to a deeper relationship with God. I'm Elizabeth Gunter Powell.
Speaker 2:And I am Kimberly Roddy. Welcome to the Father's Business Podcast. We are so glad that you've joined us.
Speaker 1:Hey everybody. It's Elizabeth and Kimberly's here too, and we're so excited to invite you to Rooted and Resilient. It's happening October 3rd and 4th in Charlotte, north Carolina.
Speaker 2:This is going to be a weekend of blessing, alignment and wholeness. It's going to help you get rooted in truth and resilient in your faith.
Speaker 1:We're going to be drawing from the themes of Ruach, Journey, Safe in the Father's Heart, and our new devotional Strength to Equal your Days. It's going to be an atmosphere where you can hear from God and be strengthened in your walk with Him.
Speaker 2:So maybe you're feeling worn out, or maybe you're just ready for a deeper connection with God. This weekend will be for you.
Speaker 1:Currently registration is just $95. Or bring someone with you and you both save.
Speaker 2:We have a discounted price of $80 each. Register today for the best price at thefathersbusinesscom. Don't wait spots are limited.
Speaker 1:We can't wait to see you there Come and join us for Rooted and Resilient.
Speaker 1:Welcome everybody to this episode of our podcast. Today we're kind of wrapping up our series on Safe in the Father's Heart and we have a really interesting and encouraging and inspiring interview that Kimberly was able to do with a friend of hers who definitely really exemplifies the idea of fathering others, and not only fathering his own children, but also reaching out and discipling and leaving a legacy for the next generation. So I'm super excited for you to be able to hear that. So, kimberly, you had a chance to speak with your friend Bob, and I think you explained this in the interview you had with him. But tell me a little bit, how did you and Bob meet each other?
Speaker 2:Bob and I met through our local church here in Virginia.
Speaker 2:I was one of the youth staff members there and knew his family just as active church members, and then he got involved with the youth ministry as a leader. I can't recall when we talk about that, but sometime while I was serving there. I was there for 10 years and he started serving at some point there and we served together for a while and then his daughters his oldest daughter came into the youth ministry as I was preparing to leave staff somewhere in there. So I got to know her a little bit but mostly got to work with Bob as he just was a was a awesome small group boys leader for us, a D group leader. We called them for discipleship groups. But that's how I met Bob and got to do a lot of trips with him and a lot of Sunday nights with him and Wednesday nights and other things, and got to do a lot of trips with him and a lot of Sunday nights with him and Wednesday nights and other things. So we've known each other for a while now.
Speaker 1:And he is a man that I deeply trust and appreciate as a friend and a comrade in ministry. I mean, as I was able to listen in on the interview when you and I were first talking about Safe in the Father's Heart. We're just kind of talking about who could we have on our podcast who just really exemplifies that you started telling me about Bob we have on our podcast who just really exemplifies that you started telling me about Bob and now that I've been able to hear the interview, can't agree enough that he is someone who didn't necessarily have the greatest relationship with his own father but has found a way to work through all of that and process through all of that and has really left a legacy for his own children also and being a church volunteer and then also being an educator in the school system of just showing up and being that love of God. And so I'm very excited for our listeners to hear this interview and I hope they enjoy it.
Speaker 2:Today we're talking to my friend Bob. Bob and I met gosh probably I don't know probably 10, 15 years ago, maybe.
Speaker 1:Like that.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, it's wild to think about, but Bob and I served in some youth ministry together at a local church here in Virginia and so I just want to, I want you guys to get to know Bob and and hear a little bit about his story. So, bob, why don't you just tell us a little bit about who you are and your family and what you do, and just kind of, who is Bob Brennan?
Speaker 3:Who is Bob? Okay, yeah, if we can figure that out, I am currently right now I'm a principal of an elementary school and I have been for about six years, and before that I was an assistant principal. For lots of years Before that I was a teacher. For lots of years Before that I was a teacher and I have taught kids in sixth through twelfth grade, primarily taught them English, and I've been an administrator in schools for kids in kindergarten or actually pre-K through eighth grade. So kind of some overlap there. I have four daughters of my own 11, 14, 16, and 19.
Speaker 2:Got your hands full.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh, my word, yes, I did, and I often joke with others. I'm kind of a perennial kid in that I'm currently 58, but I do have a young family. I started later in life. I just chose to wait to find the right person and and my work with kids has been such now since since 1988, that I guess I just kind of stay on that, that mindset which, for good, for better, for worse, kind of keeps me right about maybe 14 in my head, my body not so much. But so, yeah, and I got into youth work with the church and stuff. Because I did that when I was in college, primarily because I thought if I'm going to be a teacher, I'm going to make sure I like kids. I didn't want to find out, I didn't like them and have to change my major. So I got involved in a youth group in my home church in college and started doing that. I guess I was still a teenager. I was actually 19 myself. So I've been working with kids since I was one.
Speaker 2:Did you grow up in church?
Speaker 3:I did not really grow up in church. No, my mom and I would go like Christmas, easter's, that kind of stuff. My mom grew up in church but then drifted from that, met and married my father. He was military, so we kind of moved around just a little bit. And then when we settled in Florida when I was in second grade, there was no regular church attendance until my mom met who is now my stepfather. He was recently converted and so we went from nothing other than Christmas and Easter to everything possible in this small independent Baptist church when I was about 12.
Speaker 2:How did you meet the Lord?
Speaker 3:It's a great question. It was not as a result of that opportunity with my stepfather. Like I said, we kind of just jumped right into. Actually, I was dumped into church stuff. So we were there Sunday morning, sunday afternoon, sunday night, wednesday night, thursday night for visitation were open, we were at it. So I just there was no smooth transition in.
Speaker 3:I just all of a sudden became this churchgoer and then in high school, 10th grade, I started attending a private Christian school because a lot of my friends from the youth group went there. Then I went to a small Christian college in Tennessee. So I'd done all the Christian stuff gone to Christian camps, everything like that, without ever having made a profession of faith. And it was not until my freshman year, second semester in college, during a revival service at the church, the pastor had said something to the effect of you know, all your good works mean nothing, you'll still die and go to hell. And I was like, oh yeah, that's true, and that sounds a lot like me. I'll be one of the nicest guys in hell with all the trophies and ribbons from all my Christian stuff. So it was at that point, as a second semester freshman in college, that I made that profession of faith.
Speaker 2:When you went to college, you thought you wanted to be a teacher, possibly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I had a teacher my eighth grade year, mr Lunn, and I will talk about him probably till I die. That made an impact on me. This was at a public school. He was my English teacher and it was at a time of real need for me. My mother had just recently divorced my father and had just married my stepfather about a year earlier.
Speaker 3:And then eighth grade hit and Mr Lund came into my life and he made a big difference. Just in seeing me, basically, as I've kind of since then teased out the details, why was this man important? I just was really impressed by him, and that he even paid attention that I existed was huge. So I thought, okay, I'm going to be a teacher, just like him. And lo and behold, that's what I did, and to this day I'm still in education, but I'd love to go back and be a teacher again. As fun as being a principal is, I'd much rather be a teacher. That was my story, with Mr Lunn having impacted me and, like I said, seeing me, I felt that he valued me and that was huge for me at that point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so there was some motivation there to go into that vocational field, so to speak, because of something that had happened to you.
Speaker 3:So it was a real personal, personal thing, absolutely yeah, and it had really nothing to do with pedagogy or, you know, teaching or anything. It had a lot to do with being somebody for somebody else, because that's what I thought he was for me.
Speaker 2:Do you mind telling us a little bit about not just who he was for you, but why you think you needed someone like that in your life? Well, absolutely.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I kind of alluded to it earlier my mom and I it was pretty much just my mom and me. I'm an only child, still am my mom's 78. I don't think I'm going to get a brother or sister anytime soon. So I'm an only child. And my father was an alcoholic, so he was seldom around the house and when he was he was typically drunk. So it was not a situation where, you know, it was not the leave it to beaver household. So my mom of course had to work because someone had to pay the bills, so she was gone. I would, you know the old phrase as far as a latchkey kid I'd let myself in make my little snack. Call her, you know, I'm home, that kind of a thing.
Speaker 3:She was willing and able to put up with his alcoholism until I was, I guess, right at 11 years old. But when he became unfaithful to her, that was the point at which she drew the line and filed for divorce. So at that time this was mid-70s. You know, I didn't know anyone whose parents were divorced In my neighborhood, in my small, you know, circle of friends at school, very small circle of friends. I just didn't know anyone else with divorced parents. I didn't know anyone else with divorced parents, I didn't know anyone else with a step parent at that point. So a lot of those things just being an only child, being the child of an alcoholic parent, not having those supports in place left me very, I guess, in a sense, broken broken more than sin does but just personally confused and wondering. Not having a solid church community, you know, that would have been huge. Probably at that time would have been really nice. So I think those kinds of things really had an impact on the developing little guy that I was. Had no uncles, you know, there was no one else around in my life to speak to me, to speak truth to me, to, you know, to tell me it's going to be okay.
Speaker 3:There wasn't someone like that until, lo and behold, this public school teacher, english teacher, mr Lund, who I don't know was. I don't know that he was a Christian, I'd never had any indication that he was, but he was a kind man who exemplified a solid husband, because I remember when his wife, he would tell us about his wife and how she got sick and we were all really concerned for her and just, and when his child was born, things like that where I was able to kind of enjoy from the outside what seemed to me a normal husband wife relationship. I think that was really big. And he had us journal, which no other teacher had done prior to that, and he would actually like write little comments in the margins. And so when you get your journal back, everyone's flipping through to see what he said.
Speaker 3:And that was to me was profound, because again there was this person, this man, who was spending time communicating and I often, you know, I just kind of smile and chuckle when I have former students come back and say, hey, I found my journal and I was reading through it. And all this because that's what I did. I had my students journal and I did the same thing. I would write comments back to them because I knew that there was an impact, some kind of small gesture from me that could make an impact on them.
Speaker 2:I think that's something a lot of kids do is when you turn that in and you look back through it. I even remember working on my master's degree in seminary and we had a professor who challenged us to go on some type of experience. It was a church history class and she gave us some different options and I went on a silent retreat to a monastery.
Speaker 3:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:And it's an assignment and it's also a spiritual experience that you want to engage in, and we were supposed to journal throughout that time and recollect and make notes and all those things. And for me it was during a season when my dad was sick he'd been diagnosed with cancer and so a lot of my reflections and prayers and questions were centered around some of that stuff. And when I came back and turned in my journal, I remember her giving it back to me and she said I had to just stop reading because it just felt too personal.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:But what she did read and the conversation she had with me and what she the notes she wrote to me in there was so meaningful and just the fact that she respected that. You know like those. I think those things make a huge impact on you, no matter what season of your education you're in. You know just when someone sees you and cares about you and takes a moment to pay attention to you. Like you said, Right, right, exactly.
Speaker 2:Obviously that has caused you to want to do that and be that for others because you had that. You've said that I don't want to like. This isn't a moment to like boast about Bob or whatever, but seriously, I'd love to hear some of the ways that you've done that for others, ways that you've seen it important, not just through education, but other ways that you've done that for people, tried to just be intentional about seeing them.
Speaker 3:If anyone likes to boast about Bob, it's going to be Bob, so let's wrap it. That's a whole other podcast for another day. Is what it took to get me to not do that? Well, yeah, I mean the work with the youth group when I was in college. That kind of got my foot in the door as far as how to put up with, you know, middle school age boys and how to deal with with the drama of high school girls. That gave me some practical experience. But also it was starting to form in me how to be I guess for lack of a better term a mentor. I mean, I was only a couple years older than these kids but how to mentor them. Well, so I would often ask, well, what would I have wanted at this age? I'll just do that thing. So I'd go to their school and I'd leave notes on their lockers, you know, or send them a birthday card or whatever. So things I thought would have been nice had someone done that for me. I would do that and that's sort of kind of developing the kind of teacher that I was eventually to become.
Speaker 3:I think I had my first job right out of college. I guess I was more interested. I was less interested in the lesson plans and making tests and the actual lessons than I was in the interpersonal conversations and getting to know the kids and going to their games and cheering for them. And it's those conversations that can happen when class is over and they're waiting for their parent who teaches next door to be done. They're in your room talking. Those kinds of times were a lot more meaningful and I think more of is the reason why I went into that to do that kind of thing, to teach life skills, to teach patience, to teach those kinds of important lessons.
Speaker 3:In the spiritual aspect, of course, I've continued to work in different youth groups. I've been in a couple of different churches here in Virginia where I've volunteered. It's been off and on depending on the season of life. When I was single I had all the time in the world and I did that, I threw myself into it. Then my first couple of years of marriage with Leslie. I just took that time away and did not invest at the same level.
Speaker 3:Back to it now in my. It's like my third tour of duty right now with our youth group because I was with a bunch of guys who had graduated out and then I was with another bunch of guys because they came in as sixth graders all the way through till they've graduated out now. So I'm with the middle school guys again, just spending that time with them, showing up on Sunday night and being what we call D group leader and praying with them, talking to them about spiritual things, going on the retreat, chaperoning, the mission strips, things like that. Just taking the time and energy to do that because, number one, it needs to be done, someone needs to do that. And number two, I really do feel and it sounds sort of cheesy and sort of hallmarky, but just kind of paying it forward just doing for other people what was done for me by a few in my past and what I wish more had done for me.
Speaker 2:So this is kind of an open ended question, but I'd love to hear you talk to me about you've got four daughters and then you also like when you're serving in these youth ministry capacities. You're primarily working with high school or middle school boys and then the school system you're working with both. I'd love to hear you talk a little bit about fathering your own daughters and then spiritually fathering boys.
Speaker 3:It would have been nice to have a son, that would have been lovely to let the name continue, since I am an only child. But when you really really want a son, you end up with four daughters and that's what we did and in retrospect I think, you know, I don't know I would have been a good dad for boys because I didn't have a dad. My, you know, my birth father wasn't around my stepfather, by the time he came on board. You know a lot of me had been formed and there was. By the time he came on board, you know a lot of me had been formed and there was. I had kind of thrown a wall up because here was this man coming into my house taking my mom and he was not like the typical man who you know, the sports and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3:The fact that it's called the sports tells you how non-athletically.
Speaker 3:So I don't do the sports, so I guess it works out best. And I'm a girl dad. It is an interesting place to be because, having been just me and my mom, I think that maybe enlightened me to how a woman thinks and feels. And so there were certain things I just did to support, or sometimes things I did to not create more grief and stress In a life of hers. It was already kind of stressful and there was enough grief. So I think that was kind of training for me to become a young gentleman, a supporter, at least trying to support emotionally, which is really hard when you're a kid, but being that dad for girls, it is a good place. And obviously God knew what he was doing in my loving them and through her story, which is a whole nother podcast, what she needed and did not receive from her father and how that then impacted who she became and who she married and what she has struggled with. Knowing those stories, stories and seeing how terribly important it is that I pay attention to my daughters and love them, because they're going to find that love from somewhere, from somebody, so it would be better to make sure that it's in the confines of the safety of this house with Leslie and me, so that'd be kind of that aspect. It's a lot easier to deal with other people's kids, though, I've discovered Having worked with them for lots of years. I really thought I'd be an amazing parent, but it's a whole nother story when they're your teenagers and your kids. Having kids, though, did make me, I think, a better educator, because then I had this whole other part of my heart that understood students in a different way and I was able to be more compassionate, I think, and more empathetic, because now I got it because I had my own at home. So in working with students, especially now at this age, at 58, which still cracks me up that I'm 58. I was thinking about that the other day my first middle schoolers, the very first homeroom class I had those kids are turning 47 this year, so old, which shocks me and then the first kids I worked with in a youth group they're in their 50s now, and again that just blows me away. So now, working with pre-K kids through third graders at my school you know I'm like the campus dad slash granddad almost, and I see myself as that I often think I never knew my elementary principals, or my middle school principals for that matter.
Speaker 3:I don't know these people, who they were, I don't know if they were male or female, what their names were. I don't recollect anything about them, Whereas in my building I'm walking the halls, I'm going in classes, I'm out on the playground, I'm being visible and seen and the kids are calling me by name. And I'm calling them by name because, again, I really think it's important for kids to have as many adults in their lives who see, hear and value them. So that's kind of my take on it as an administrator. It's tiring, it's hard to run after kindergartners and coax them out from under desks, but I think you know if you're sitting there on the floor with them and talking to them like they're actually little humans, I think that goes pretty far. So my take on it is a lot different than maybe the old school version of what a principal is.
Speaker 3:And then from the church aspect, yeah, as a matter of fact, I just posted today on Instagram about my church sons and how I've had these guys that I have, that I guess God has kind of connected our hearts and they're willing to be seen with me in public and willing to take my advice or take my chastisement at times and sort of fathering them along in the faith, in a way that's not preachy and in a way that's not, I don't know, contrived, but trying to be super authentic. And I think I don't think I know that young people want that. They want to see authenticity. They want to see adults admit that they don't know all the answers, but here's what we do know is true and point them to something that's true, like the gospel. So I've had the opportunity to do that with a handful of guys Well, actually more than two big handfuls of guys, I guess over the years in different church situations where you know you just pray for them and you tell them that and you follow up with them, you call them, you text them, you check in on them and then when they leave the nest you celebrate them when they come back and you make time to go and have coffee or go have breakfast and just sit and listen.
Speaker 3:Leslie will often laugh because I'll talk about I'm going to go and meet up with so-and-so and I'll come back and she'll ask how was ask? How was the conversation? I'm like, well, it wasn't so much a conversation, it was a lot of listening, which is great, because I think we all need that. We need someone to listen to us, and if I can be that person for someone else, then I think that person's better for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think sometimes listening is allowing, it's establishing that trust.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:You know, even if the trust is already established and they're coming to hang out with you, let's say we've we've both worked with kids that have gone off to college and they come back and they're like hey, I want to meet up with you while I'm home over the weekend or whatever. They trust us, but again, it's just it's given them a safe place to know that sometimes they're they're trying to test us, I think, and see, are we still really safe and what can I share? And it's, you know, never show that surprise on your face. Of course, for people probably like you and I, we don't get surprised much anymore after working with kids for a long time, but it's truly yeah, I think that's really important is just being present for them.
Speaker 2:We had a podcast not that long ago where we talked to Sandra Stanley. She and her husband, andy, had released a book on parenting and they talked about building a bridge between you and your kids, or between us and the kids that we're mentoring. Just building that relational bridge so that there is a connection, so that they do have a safe place to go and they have a place to go, a trusted place to go, to reach out to when they need it and just being there for them in the mundane and the big things and all that. I love to hear you talk about that. That's encouraging. I'm curious too, like for you not having a father that was really active or present much for you. How did that impact you spiritually when you think about God as Father?
Speaker 3:Right, sure, yeah, definitely, definitely an impact. And again, that's not something I knew early on, but in retrospect and in processing, as I've gotten older and allowed myself to process it, that I would say probably my 20s and 30s, my view of God was he was very much absent, almost kind of a deistic kind of thing. Yeah, I knew he was there. Obviously there was a God. The Bible tells me that I have to trust the Bible. I'm a Christian, but as far as his involvement, I was I don't know if reluctant is the best term, but just not as willing to accept that, which is kind of interesting, because I had gone to a Christian college in my 20s and was teaching at a Christian high school, a Christian school, in my 20s and early 30s. So I was involved in all the Christian stuff, but as far as a vibrant, growing, thriving relationship with a heavenly father, that was not happening. It was more of a I understand, you're there, I get that and I will allow that to happen kind of a thing. I can't help but think that was as a result of not having my dad, who was. You know, I knew there was a dad, obviously. I knew he was. Joseph Brendan existed, but he was not there and even when he would come home and become apologetic because he realized you know what he was doing to me and to my mother, and when he would make promises to come pick me up for this particular event and I would believe him. And then he wouldn't. And of course that's very, very hurtful and you don't really think about what that kind of hurt does and how deep it goes, until you're older and you realize, man, that really messed me up. I think that does have an impact. God has these promises of what he wants to be and do for you. But is that really the case? Because my dad promised things that didn't come through and then my father passed away when I was 15, basically drinking himself to death. I mean, his alcoholism caught up to him to the point that it literally killed him.
Speaker 3:So dealing with that, like well, how do I feel now about this, not knowing what I had last said to him, not having a chance to visit him? You know, I was in the hospital. All of a sudden I just found out he's sick and then within minutes I found out he's gone. So that does a lot to mess a kid up and make you question things and then my stepfather coming into it. He didn't really know what to do with me. He didn't know how to father me. He himself had not been fathered well, so it was kind of distant. And even now, I mean, my stepfather's still alive, he's still a part of my life and has been since 1977. So I mean, I've known this man for a while. There has never been a time that we've been super close and where I've gone to him for advice much past. Hey, our car is making this funny noise. What should I do? The deeper conversations that I think a son desires to have with the father, those things just never happen.
Speaker 3:So all of that, I think, did form my impressions or my perspective on who God is as far as is he really that intimately concerned about who Bob Brennan is.
Speaker 3:And it took really until our coming on at our current church really and just understanding the depth of the Father's love for me. And I remember just being overwhelmed and sitting there and just weeping in church one and I couldn't control that. I could not stop and I guess I wasn't all that embarrassed because I didn't get up and leave, but just being so overwhelmed that he knew me before time began and he loved me, despite who I thought I was, and continues to love me, still knows me, still loves me and wants to know me more and know me better and love me unconditionally. But that took a lot of pain, a lot of hurt, a lot of processing, a lot of counseling to get to that point. So, yeah, I definitely feel that a father's relationship with his children does have an impact. I think that, too, informs why I parent my daughters the way I do and why I try to be that church dad for some of these guys, because, you know, I'm hopeful that it will do something for them to trigger a better relationship with their Heavenly Father.
Speaker 2:That's really. I appreciate you sharing that. I think his name's Pete Scarzario or something like that I can't think of. He wrote like the emotionally healthy church or something. He's got a couple of different books like that, but he talks about when we have those broken family systems. A lot of times the church gets to, the body of Christ, gets to step in and that we have the opportunity to repair some of those things that haven't gone well in the family of origin. Right.
Speaker 3:Right, right, and I think too, kim, that's really been something that's kind of struck me here within the past maybe five years is church as a community. Church you know from the time I was 12 on was a place and it was a thing, it was something you did, it was an activity. But the concept of it being community is only relatively new to me as far as that is where we go and that is where we lift one another up and we rejoice with each other, we mourn for each other. It's that body of Christ, like our physical bodies, and it's odd that it's taken me into my 50s to really grasp that.
Speaker 2:The things that you're talking about, though. Those things are, they're making an impact and they're going to leave a legacy. I see you post on Instagram sometimes times where you've gotten together, and you mentioned it earlier. You know your students who were in their 40s and encroaching on 50 now, right, how did that happen? Yeah, you're getting to see some of the impact, which is really cool. I say. My mom told me when I said I think I was doing my first intern, youth internship and I was just frustrated and my mom was like you're, really, if you want to risk, if you want to see results, I'm not sure you should go into youth ministry. I was like that is so true, I need to vacuum or mow lawns or do landscaping, or something like that where you can see it in an hour or two, you know nice straight lines, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Right, right. You've been doing this a little bit longer than me and I've been doing it right behind you, not too far, and you just we do get. If you stick with it long enough, you get to see that impact. And again, this is a boasting Bob question. But what kind of legacy do you really hope to leave? Like, how would you put some words to? I really hope that my girls are going to walk away with this and the kids I interact with in school systems and the boys I interact with at church. I really hope they're going to, because Bob was used in my life. I'm better in this way.
Speaker 2:Right, I'd like a statue, but I'm not sure.
Speaker 3:I'll take note of that, thank you. That's funny you asked that because I do think that a little more often than I would have in that education has become a very hard field to me and it's never been easy, but it's become harder here in the last three years. So I will check my retirement almost on a monthly basis, like, okay, am I really, do I really have to do this nine more years Because I'm going to make up for those years I was in a Christian school? Yep, the numbers have not adjusted. I need to do this for nine more years and I think, okay, what will my legacy be when I leave this particular building, whenever it is? These kids are not going to remember Bob Brennan, they're not going to remember Mr Brennan because they're little, they don't remember names that well and they're going to grow up and forget all that. But I'm kind of hopeful they'll remember how that man in the building, the tall guy in the building, made them feel when they were emotionally dysregulated, when they were throwing things in his office, when they were crying in the hallway. That they'll remember how they felt and they weren't embarrassed, they weren't judged, they weren't harshly punished, but again, they were valued and listened to and heard. I'm hopeful for that and with that too, I think the impact I can have on their parents when I call someone and say, hey, your son brought a box cutter to school today and you can't do that, that's not allowed, he's going to have to go home. But having that conversation with him like I understand he's just a little guy and he wasn't thinking and them being so grateful for what they may not know is mercy. But you know, as a Christian I do that there's an impact there as well. That imaging Christ to them in ways that they may not use all the Christianese and the church terms, but they'll know something is different compared to the principle that they had or the one that you know they know about at the school across town or whatever. For my daughters hopefully they'll remember my name when I'm gone.
Speaker 3:I hope that their lives, that they will be living out the legacy as far as being ladies who love God and will image Him in whatever aspects, wherever they find themselves, you know, as moms, as wives, as whatever jobs they pursue ministries they're in that I guess that they would think that I would be happy with it. You know that's not as important, obviously, as God being pleased. But you know, if God's pleased by what they're doing, then dad is going to be pleased. So I really am hopeful that just a family legacy of supporting each other, loving each other, valuing time together and valuing time in ministry I think that's huge. And the same for the guys I work with in the church.
Speaker 3:I'm hopeful that they will look back, possibly on me, like I look back on Mr Lunn or on Paul Faulkner, who was one of my college professors, who again just took interest and was a solid Christian husband and father, and some of those other men who poured into my life.
Speaker 3:They will look back and they will say my name on the iPod or whatever they have in 25, 30 years, whatever technology there is. That maybe Bob Brennan's name is said, not because I need that, because I probably won't know about it, but just that I think it's a testament to how God used me and this tapestry that basically we get to be a part of you and I, kim and others, that we kind of are weaving into people's lives and then we leave them for a while and then they come back and weave in a little bit more. To be part of that tapestry, I think is a wonderful opportunity and something that it excites me, if I could go back in time and talk to little eighth grade Bobby Brennan and tell him hey, it's going to be okay. Things are crazy right now and life is not the Brady Bunch, but you're going to be okay and you're going to have other people be okay too. I think that's huge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's your prayer life look like for the next generation, for the kids that you work with and you parent?
Speaker 3:Yeah, one of the ways that I prayed specifically for my daughters is to kind of hone in on what is an aspect of the fruit of the Spirit that this particular daughter really needs right now, through our interactions and through my observations. Is she needing to be a little more kind? Does she need to have more joy? And I focused on that aspect of the fruit of the Spirit and I prayed that specifically for that specific daughter, because you can always pray that your kids will be obedient I mean, that's nice that they would, but but having a general aspect of who of God's character in their life, I think is huge. So I've done that. I prayed, of course, for their future spouses, whoever those guys are, and in my prayers I've you know, I'm picturing okay, there's this guy out there right now who's some teenage boy doing something. God, please protect him, please guide him. You know, help him to love you even now. So I do that regularly, even now, and they answer all the questions correctly and run the gauntlet that I've already kind of connected my heart with their heart and my daughter's hearts with them as well. Or the guys I've worked with, because I've had the opportunity to have some pretty good conversations with them and they often will reveal some things. In being vulnerable, I'm able to pray specifically for those needs, those deficits, and there have been times that I have prayed for God to grip the young man's heart and keep him from feeling anything. It sounds horrible, but keep him from feeling anything positive or joyful until he's turned back to God, that he will not find peace, until he finds peace with Christ.
Speaker 3:Because some of these guys, they know They've been in the church long enough. They've heard all the same sermons I've heard They've sat in Sunday school. You know they've come from Christian homes. So often I'll be praying for God's word to not return void, knowing that these guys know it and claiming that promise of God's that his word won't return void, that what looks kind of, I guess, disappointing on the outside.
Speaker 3:Now, because sometimes these guys do their own thing and don't follow the way that you would hope they would. And as much as that hurts me, I know it hurts their parents even more that the word is in there. It's tucked down deep in their hearts and in their minds and I just claim that it will, that it will return and that you know they'll come back. Not unlike praying for Leslie and me to have that wisdom that we need to train up our daughters in a way they should go so using that reference from Proverbs, so when they're older they'll not turn from it. You know those kinds of things. Just wisdom is the one huge thing I pray for for Leslie and me in dealing with our girls.
Speaker 2:Demographically, we have a lot more women that listen to our podcast than men, but we do have a lot of men that listen to it as well. I think it's really important for parents and adults, whether they're, and even 20 year olds who listened to our podcast. They hear a lot from me and Elizabeth, so they hear a lot from female voices. I would love to hear from a male voice, from your voice, some encouragement. You kind of just spoke to this as far as prayer, but we've got a lot of people that listen, who have children that aren't walking with the Lord and they're discouraged by that.
Speaker 2:We have a lot of men and women who listen whose spouses aren't. Maybe they're divorced or maybe they're separated or maybe they're just in a hard season right now, and we hear about these things and we pray for these people and we try to encourage them. And we've got some young college students I know that have been listening, that are just wanting to grow in their faith and figure out life. And we've heard generations in the past say I remember being your age, but I do think it's different now. It's hard growing up in this culture and society. So I think the last question I have for you is what encouragement can you offer others out of your story and out of your experience so that others can discover and experience that father heart of God?
Speaker 3:Well, sure, probably the best thing. And I have sometimes these same conversations with parents who will come into my office, you know, in my, my public school parents who will come into my office, you know, in my public school, and I try to slip in as much Jesus as I can without getting in trouble, but really just loving the child, whether it's the first grader or the college student or the 30 something, loving this child unconditionally and not letting the disappointment show. Because I think sometimes when we as the adult, as the parent, when we show that disappointment, we show that we have been hurt and we can't let go of that hurt, that hurt's going to taint our relationship, Then for some people it just makes them feel more guilty. So they draw deeper into themselves and it's kind of this self-fulfilling well, I'm a bad person because I've disappointed mom, I've upset dad, so I'm going to do more bad things because I'm a bad person. So we drive them that way.
Speaker 3:Or I think often people will interpret that as a lack of forgiveness. And if we as the parent the parent who knows Christ, the spouse who knows Christ if we don't demonstrate a willingness to forgive, then why would they even expect a loving God again to forgive, because that's often how they're seeing God is through what we're imaging so loving the person, being very authentic and vulnerable and open with the person. I've done that with some guys that I've worked with and just said, hey, what you're doing is wrong and I still love you. I love you desperately but I cannot condone this thing and that has never driven one of them away. It's never made them not want to then seek time to at least talk about it. They'll hide some of the things they do and they may be a little less open.
Speaker 3:But I think if we say I see the sin, I understand what you're doing is wrong, I will not condone it, accept it or endorse it.
Speaker 3:However, you are valuable to me.
Speaker 3:I love you because God loves me and I'm going to love you through this and I'm going to pray for you through this and just being patient and that's the hard part is being patient and allowing God to do what he does in his perfect time and just being willing to wait, waiting on him.
Speaker 3:And that is hard, but in the long run and I really sound old when I say this kind of stuff and I'm not really that old but in the long run. You see the fruit of that or you don't. I mean the point where I realized that I was not God. When I came to that realization that there is a God and I'm not him and he can do what he wants, that really lightened a lot of load for me, because I was no longer trying to convict people and judge people and expect the universe to bend to my will. God is going to do what he feels is best and if he uses me, if he uses you, if he uses any parent or college student listening in that process, then you know, to him be the glory.
Speaker 2:On the back of Sylvia's book Sylvia, and Elizabeth's book Safe in the Father's Heart, they say God, our father is powerful enough to create the universe and personal enough to delight in you, his child.
Speaker 3:Right yeah, right yeah. And I think when you get that and that's a process to understand that that he really, really, really knows you personally because he knit you together and he formed you and he planned out your days and he loves you personally, that will do really big things to somebody. I think, and it's a process I mean, I'm learning it day by day.
Speaker 2:It's like that. Teacher Mr Lunn, is that his name?
Speaker 3:His name, that's right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, you don't know if he was a believer or not, but he was seeing you and ultimately, god used that to speak to you and to show you that you are worth being seen from his perspective, right. Thanks so much for sharing your story with me and taking time to just talk today, and thanks for asking and listening. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:I want to thank you for listening to the Father's Business Podcast. This podcast is made possible through donations by people like you. To donate, go to wwwthefathersbusinesscom. Be sure to follow us at the father's biz on instagram and facebook.
