Mashup: Championing Diversity and Resilience in the Corporate World

Where do we stand in the corporate world when truly embracing our diverse workforce? 

From DEI implementation to the poignant journey of entrepreneurs reshaping the narrative, this mashup episode is a clarion call for continued advocacy and insightful exploration of the intersection of identity, profession, and the pursuit of financial security.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

This is the Transparency Podcast Show.

Speaker 2: 0:04

Welcome back to Transparency Podcast Show. Michelle Hi, how are you Good? How are you? How about yourself? Good, how's?

Speaker 3: 0:13

life. So, who's our guest today? Today we have a very special guest I'm very excited to introduce people to. Her name is Catherine Swain. I'm very excited to introduce people to. Her name is Catherine Swain and we've talked once and I've been so impressed by her story, by her vision for what she? Wants to do specifically giving back into our own community and beyond, and so I'm very excited to have everybody meet Catherine today. Okay, I can't wait to hear about her stories Hi Catherine, Hi Catherine, Hi everyone, Welcome to the Transparency.

Speaker 1: 0:49

Podcast Show. Thank you so much for having me. This is really. I'm so thrilled that you guys are doing this. This is something that is sorely needed and I just feel like you're. You guys are on the leading edge. I'm excited.

Speaker 3: 1:01

Well, talking about solely needed. You are solely needed, Solely needed, solely needed. What you are doing and your vision of giving your years of expertise back into our own community I'm so excited about, and the little stories that we've already talked about online, I think will inspire our community and the sirens going on.

Speaker 2: 1:25

It's okay, that's's what happened.

Speaker 1: 1:27

to welcome to live yeah live broadcast was that your siren? I have no idea what's that?

Speaker 3: 1:33

it's in it's in a virtual someone's in trouble somewhere yeah, okay, so let's get very good well tell us a little bit about your background and your years of experience and then then, as a trans woman in your transition, the difficulty that that tends to bring up and what that launched you into now.

Speaker 1: 1:55

Wow, that is quite a. It's quite an opener Right to it. Yeah, no doubt. So I probably should be up front. I've been. I started two years ago, a little over two years ago. I worked in the financial services industry for 27 years I was essentially an investment advisor for registered investment advisors. I a representative for those firms. I was a professional trader I handled. We can get into the details of my experience there, but you know I have been in the business so long and the reason why I waited to transition so long was that there was just no place for me. So when I was 25 and 30 and 35, every time I thought, well, now I'll start thinking about transitioning. The eventual that I would, as a transgender woman, come out by there'd be a thousand or two thousand investment professionals and it was almost almost entirely men.

Speaker 1: 2:58

It was almost entirely conservative, white, republican men, exactly, and the idea that a transgender woman would be an executive in that environment was just not really realistic. So you know, I put it off and I kept putting it off. And the thing about being trans is is that it never gets better.

Speaker 1: 3:49

You know, it never goes away or just as you get older, the harder it gets mentally to cope with it. And so I made a decision a few years ago about actually seven years, to be exact that I was going to prepare myself to do this late in life and started to write down all the things I felt that I needed to do, not just for my own transition, but for my career and for my community. And so that's what I'm doing. This is what I'm doing now is basically a culmination of what I thought about about seven years ago.

Speaker 3: 4:22

I love it. I love how our journeys, even in the difficulty and the complexity and the misunderstanding and so many issues, how that still builds us who we are and prepares us for the future. I didn't transition until, or start transitioning until, 52. Kind of the same reasons, largely a little bit of a different field within a majority white Christian conservative ministry. Also kind of the same thing. I wasn't going to be able to keep my job in that and so I put it off for all those years. But in that process it builds us and it helps us prioritize the things that are important. If I transitioned at 25, I would have been totally different than how the first two years of my transition.

Speaker 3: 5:07

And so so your story. It's a difficult one, but it's easy to see how those battle tested difficulties have built you into the woman you are today, and so I'm excited about that. So tell us a little bit about your journey and your vision. So I'm excited about that.

Speaker 1: 5:27

So tell us a little bit about your journey and your vision. Yeah, so just to kind of go from the beginning, I grew up in Northern California. I recently relocated to LA to start my company, but I grew up in a little tiny town, mendocino. We had about 1,100 people in the whole town, so there was about 150 kids in the high school and that was the environment I found myself growing up. It was very, not to say isolated, but it was certainly. If you've ever grown up in a small town, everybody knows every single thing about you.

Speaker 1: 6:02

So I became a very private person as a child, especially knowing and I first identified or kind of figured out that I was a little bit unique in that I was uncomfortable with my gender starting around age five. So in a town where there's just so few people you really need to be protective of those types of truths, and not only to not. Until I got into the, you know the real world and I moved to San Francisco and then to Washington DC where I went to school for to work and basically I was educated in government finance. My first job at a college with Merrill Lynch was doing municipal bond deals for the state that I was living in municipal bond deals for the state that I was living in, and so my education from a investment business perspective started when I was right out of college. At 21, I joined Merrill and at 23, I was basically the representative doing the state municipal offering deals, representative doing the state municipal offering deals.

Speaker 1: 7:04

And you know, at that point you're in it, you know and it's it, and you, you are doing everything you can to survive, and so so I chose to basically just you know, hide who I was and and I lived san francisco also at the time, um, and you know there was a big trans community and I was so and, I'll be honest, I was so ashamed of who I was at that time.

Speaker 1: 7:37

So this is, you know, 1996, um, that I like there was. I lived, ironically, I lived in a in a neighborhood in San Francisco called knob Hill, and just the just down the street, like three blocks away, was one of the most famous transgender bars really in the world at that time, and it was the mother load, um, and you would drive by, walk by and there would be trans women just all around the place hanging out like falling, like literally flowing out the front door, and it was a happening place and I remember walking around the block to to avoid it, because I was that you know ashamed of who I was, and it took me a long, long time to get to a place where I was comfortable accepting myself. And then, once I got to that place, the world really just opened up for me and I've never looked back and I'm living a life that I always dreamed of.

Speaker 3: 8:32

Amazing.

Speaker 2: 8:33

Cool. So I want to find out like did you have any financial background in school, or how did you choose this field? Like will you be always interested, or some yeah, or are you an investor yourself?

Speaker 1: 8:52

um, yeah, no. So here's, here's the. Here's another truth about me I'm, I'm, um, I'm half hispanic, and I grew up in my household. My parents split up. When I was very young and my mom and my grandmother raised me and they spoke Spanish only my grandmother, my mom, was a single mom. Her mom was a single mom. There are my grandmother's dad was a single dad. So you know, we've never been wealthy to the point where we just say oh, I remember talking to kids in high school.

Speaker 1: 9:24

They're like oh, I've got my trust account. I'm thinking about what to buy with stocks. And I thought who has a trust account? And that was my first introduction, which is going to a more affluent school and finding out about this stuff.

Speaker 1: 9:41

But growing up in not to say poor, I would never say poor but I definitely we didn't have money in the same way that other kids did, and so for me to, when I started to think about a career, it was more of a necessity finding out about things that we didn't. It wasn't natural to us. Yes, it wasn't natural to think about a retirement account right 401k or investing, or options, or you know futures nothing of that existed in our world, and so the school doesn't teach that as well.

Speaker 1: 10:21

Right and I knew that, to break that cycle of being a single parent who's struggling to get by, that, I had to make a conscious decision to focus on that as a priority in my life.

Speaker 1: 10:36

So I literally just started in high school studying the stock market and by the time I graduated from college I I got a job at 21 working um in an office in as a sales assistant, okay, and what was funny was that the first office I worked in there was 40 um, at that time there were brokers. Yeah, we now are financial advisors, financial planners right, but they were, and out of the 40 brokers, only two were women.

Speaker 2: 11:06

Wow.

Speaker 1: 11:07

And and out of the sales assistants, the people who supported those 40 brokers, I think there was one like 16 of them. They were 16 women and, excuse me, 14 women and two gay men.

Speaker 2: 11:20

OK.

Speaker 1: 11:21

And that was my first education to the business, which is, if you want to be successful, white males tend to dominate. And if you are going to survive in this business and you're a woman, you're going to be in support. And that was the first realization that hit me that this is real and you have to survive. You have to kind of do anything you can to get to that next level.

Speaker 2: 11:46

So do you have any advice for people who, like I say, never invest Because the school system never teaches us about financial literacy. So a lot of times people say I don't have money to invest, I can't even pay my bills and stuff. So do you have any advice to people like that? Because today, especially today's world we have, we're facing inflations, we're facing, um, you know, and there's a lot of economy, um uncertainties, we might have recession coming up. So all this is tied up to you know how much you can invest, not how much you can save correct. So do you have any um advice to people like that, who might think you want to do it, but not sure where to start?

Speaker 1: 12:34

yeah, you know the biggest thing and almost it's. It's funny, there's like certain things that certain communities know and then certain things that other communities don't know, and one of them was just the power of compounding. The power of compounding for me was a revelation and it sounds so simple and I'm sure you've probably seen some example of the power of compounding in school. But as far as a portfolio goes, you know the difference between someone who saves $100 a month and just puts it in the market.

Speaker 1: 13:04

You do not have to be an expert. You do not have to pick Amazon versus Apple versus AT&T, or Boeing or Chevron or anything like that. All you have to do is put $100 a month into the market. Now, $100 for a lot of people is a big deal, but a lot of people also, $100 is something that they can't afford. You know that's. $100 a month is $3 a day, right.

Speaker 1: 13:27

And so if you can take $3 a day and you put that money, that $100, to work each month and you just blindly put it in the stock market when you're 25, if you go 40 years out in the future, at 65, you'll have a million dollars. Yes, now the trick is, if you just wait 10 years, which is hey, I'm 25. I really need that a hundred bucks. I like to go out to name whatever bar, whatever you know you like to.

Speaker 1: 13:54

I love shopping, so that a hundred dollars doesn't seem like a lot today but the difference between starting at age 25 versus 35, at 35, that, instead of having a million dollars, do you know what you have? It's? It's closer to three hundred thousand dollars. Wow, yeah, that's significant and so that 10 year difference right in your early age is what makes all the difference right, and so getting people accustomed to the idea of saving for their future because, I'm trans.

Speaker 1: 14:29

right, we all know the burdens that we all face as trans people and so much of my money and focus and everything went into basically making my transition as good as it possibly could. Making my transition as good as it possibly could. The idea of investing literally when I went through transition was like the last thing I was thinking about but the.

Speaker 1: 14:49

moment you're, you're feeling like you are who you are. Well, the real world comes, you know, like like the tide comes rushing back in and you got to figure it out quickly, and so the best thing you can do is to start saving up a saving program, the earlier you can do it. The earliest you can do is to start saving up a saving program, the earlier you can do it.

Speaker 3: 15:07

The earliest you can do it, and that's the difference. That's really good. That's really good. If I had done that, I wouldn't be in a different position right now.

Speaker 2: 15:13

Yeah, I actually just started two years ago and I've read a lot of books. It's pay yourself first, sell first.

Speaker 3: 15:27

So I kind of follow what you just said put maybe uh 10 or 30 percent from what I my income and then put it in the ira rough ira, traditional ira and then yeah, so I can't wait to see what happened after 10 years, like you said, yeah yeah, and our community faces so much um, unemployment, underemployment, um, talking back into your industry of financial services, how difficult it would be for a woman in general, much less a trans person, and so our community is even more plagued by some of these difficulties. And so what is the vision with LGBTQ? Invest in that, in the difficulties and the setbacks that we have faced in our community. How can your company make a difference?

Speaker 1: 16:44

So one of the things you know, one of the things I've had lately, now that LGBTQI is in business, is that when I talk to prospective customers, these are folks that are, that are gay, lesbian, trans, bi, whatever they are, and allies, especially allies they they say to me hey, Catherine, I love what you're doing, but I already have a guy over at.

Speaker 1: 17:09

Merrill Lynch or and I have a gal over at UBS, or I have someone that at JP Morgan that I really love, and my, my message to them is and, by the way, that relationship is really valuable but the thing you have to know is that, while you might have a representative that really speaks to you, the people who actually manage that money, the people who are taking your investment dollars and putting it to work in the market, they're mostly again, to kind of echo this they're usually management and ownership is a single class of people.

Speaker 1: 17:46

It is white, Republican, conservative men and, yes, LGBTQ people do exist in the investment management space, but, as I can attest, I've had in my career nothing but those guys as my bosses and I've had nothing but gay and women as my assistants in my career, and so what LGBTQI is really meant to do is meant to create a safe, positive and inclusive space so that those of us in the community not just are heard and you know and listened to. You know, for our investing needs and our futures money that we are handing to that advisor, they are not just handing it over to the same person who might be investing in Chick-fil-A or?

Speaker 1: 18:39

might be investing in. You know, we just had this weekend Coachella right. You know the Coachella Festival. I mean, think about the millions and millions, the tens of millions of dollars that goes into Coachella. And the owner is a gentleman named Anschutz. He's a huge advocate for anti-LGBTQ laws that are being passed in Florida, that don't say gay bill and the anti-trans bills.

Speaker 1: 19:06

And to think that you in the community, who are fighting for your rights, are then handing your money to someone who then hands it to someone who supports people like Trump. No, no, you have to put a line in the sand. And when you think about what other firms are available to me, lgbtqi is one of the only firms that exists that is 100% trans-owned or LGBTQ owned and focused on the community. And we are investing in a socially responsible way, so that we apply screens to the world of investments to only invest in companies that are LGBTQ, positive and inclusive and actively going out to try and help the community. And it's pretty easy for us to identify which company those are and then, from there, we then do our normal investment analysis and allocations Amazing.

Speaker 3: 19:58

I think about those families in Texas, for example, that are facing the issue of do I stay here, where do I go? Who's answering, who's helping me in this? And so I think your vision is that breath of fresh air. Your vision is that cup of cold water that our community needs, and that's one of the reasons we're so excited about having you here and amping this up as much as possible, because those people are making the decisions the philanthropists that owns soccer teams and the Dignity Health Sports Center and center and staples. You know, those are the people that are making the decisions and we have no right, no recourse for that, but actually now we do in your vision yeah and so.

Speaker 1: 20:48

so really, you know it's funny because I I started to go there earlier, you know, when I was 25. If someone said that there was an LGBTQ firm where I could go and work with other LGBTQ investors as a trans woman, I would have been there instantly and at 30 and 35 and 40. And the fact that that never happened, there was never a place for me to continue my career. That is largely what LGBTQ is about. It's about jobs for the community and, more importantly, taking folks who were like me when I was 25 and building their career so that they have a destination. You know, so if you're 25 and you just got out of business school or you're, you went to work as an, an undergrad, and you say I'm gay, I'm trans, I'm whatever you are, and you say I want a place where I'm respected and I can be successful as an executive and eventually one day run my own firm.

Speaker 1: 21:45

That place does not exist for you today until now, I'll just until now, and that's what we're trying to do can I actually say one thing?

Speaker 1: 21:53

because, um, I, my whole family, is from Texas.

Speaker 1: 21:57

We've actually been being Hispanic, we've been in the Rio Grande Valley for over 300 years, so my family was part of Texas before it was Texas.

Speaker 1: 22:09

And when I came out, I was really surprised to find out that I had family members who were trans and living in Texas.

Speaker 1: 22:16

And when I reached out to them, it was funny because I reached out to an uncle who said, well, let me get you in touch with you know, your family member. And then I had to go through the series of hoops to get the private discord message for one of my cousins and I thought this person isn't just like available on Gmail or you know. And the answer is no, they were. They were terrified about keeping who they were and their truth private, and and that's the difference between the world that I live in in California and the ones in, let's say, like a place like Texas, and so I often use the. You know the story, which is, you know, if you're LGBTQ and you're in Iowa and you have banking needs and investing needs, and or maybe not Iowa, maybe Florida, maybe Texas, maybe Arkansas, wherever it is you really don't have a lot of great options to walk into a bank and be treated with respect and dignity, like you would with a place like my firm.

Speaker 3: 23:18

Yeah, so incredibly needed.

Speaker 2: 23:20

Yeah, so what do you see, like within, I mean, like after five years, what do you see that your company can be like, like, like, do you, do you want to do more besides lgbtq invests, or like you know?

Speaker 1: 23:39

I'm trying to say yeah, you know, there there is one other firm that does banking right now and I think they're doing a great job. Um, so I'm not alone, and that's the greatness that there are. There are a couple firms, believe it or not. There are a couple other firms that are TransZone, that are registered investment advisors. They're also relatively new. They have a very niche. They're very focused on a certain segment of the population.

Speaker 1: 24:05

What we're trying to do there's a when we divide up the universe of investors within the industry, we look at people who are zero to $100,000, 100 to a million, and then a million to 5 million and then five and up, and so each one of those categories is a distinct market, and so my space has always been in the mass affluent market, and this is investors in the $100,000 to a million dollar space. So this is not CEOs and executives, even though we've had those clients in the past. This is really mom and pops. You know, folks who are working. Maybe they're a plumber, maybe they work for an airline, maybe they work for they just have a regular job where they had a 401k.

Speaker 2: 24:49

Right.

Speaker 1: 24:49

And that 401k that they started savings turned into three hundred thousand dollars, so that so. So that's the type of client that we really want to get to, because that's the person who's not going to be as represented by their investment management company or their bank as they would with us. Now, if someone has $20 million, people will do and say a lot of things to make sure they get that business, but if you have 200,000, that's a different story and that's the space we reside in.

Speaker 1: 25:18

So when I look at my, in the past I've managed as much as 350 million and I had to and there's a whole other story about that and I had to basically let that book of business go to be able to do what I'm doing now. Right, that book of business go to be able to do what I'm doing now. And you know, when you think about the size, one of the stats that really struck me recently was that the there's and I forget I want to say was I think I read this in Out Magazine but that in 2020, 2020 5.4 percent of americans identified as lgbtq. That these are people are out saying I'm lgbtq and I'm going to announce that on the census or some other place from 2020 to 2021, that number went from 5.4 to 7.1.

Speaker 1: 26:08

wow, in the course of one year. Wow, which was shocking, because if you look back over decades, that number has been three, four, five percent per decades and all of a sudden, in one year, it went from 5.4 to 7.1. And the answer is what happened? And what happened was the next generation, generation z, the, the baby boomers are about one or two percent lgbt. Generation X is three or four, the millennials five, six, seven, somewhere in that range I forgot what the exact number is and then the Gen Z comes along and they're almost 22% LGBTQ.

Speaker 1: 26:45

And so if you're a Republican and you are looking to the future of demographics and you're seeing that 22% of the next generation in America is self-identifying already as LGBTQ, you must be terrified. And so I really look at this recent run of anti-LGBTQ bills and anti-trans, you know, youth bills, and to me, this is this is them being, this is them, this is their last hurrah, this is them saying we're going to stigmatize this group because if we don't, the demographics are going to mean the end of republicanism and at least conservative republicanism in America. And so so let let's take these, these bathroom bills and these anti-lgbtq bills as a is essentially the early phases of a major transition in our political system and I, so I I go to bed feeling really good about those numbers right, and then people throw up the argument of it's a trend or something.

Speaker 3: 27:51

You know, we just have space that we feel safe enough to come out now, and so that's what I'm. So when I see these trans kids and these families that are going through this pain, I'm blown away by the strength of these trans kids and it just it almost makes me. It makes me tear up, because of the opportunity they have to walk authentically at such a young age is amazing, and who they can grow into be because of that is beautiful, and there's a lot of people that will do anything in their power to stop that.

Speaker 1: 28:25

Absolutely. I love it.

Speaker 3: 28:28

You also mentioned when we first talked kind of. You have a sister company, catherine Swain Associates. Tell us a little bit about that, because I found that fascinating and some of the opportunities that presents to people that may live in a place that is not so LGBTQ friendly. You know, maybe they're brokers or maybe there's someone that is in the industry at some level but don't have a place that can feel safe like you talked about earlier. Don't have a place that can feel safe like you talked about earlier, right, and so this is where.

Speaker 1: 28:57

So, for example, I think about my one of my girlfriends, who is who I really. I mean, she says that I was her mentor in the business, and I appreciate that, but she's done just fine on her own. You know, I think of her, she. She's an advisor. At 41, she got divorced, she was a stay at home mom, she took a job on Craigslist that just happened to be a receptions for investment management company, and at 48, she now manages $90 million and is making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. And that all happened within the last seven years.

Speaker 1: 29:30

And so I think about a woman like her, where she's still not represented by even you know, she's still not represented by her management.

Speaker 1: 29:39

And so the conundrum that I faced is is that if I bring her into LGBTQ investments or LGBTQ invest as a, as a, as an advisor, um, while she's a great ally for the community, I also know that 99% of our clients are not LGBTQ, right, and so if we want an advisor who's either an ally or who's self-identifying as LGBTQ and you want them to be able to offer a service that isn't necessarily draped in the LGBTQ flag, that's what Catherine Swain Company is all about, and Catherine Swain and Company also is where we can. It becomes kind of a hub for people who want to invest in the same way but the LGBTQ brand is just not for them and that's fine, and so we have both brands to work with investors, and so so I I'm and to be honest, you know, I that of that 350 million that I used to manage, I needed a destination for those folks and that's what Captain's Funding Company is.

Speaker 3: 30:46

I love that. I love how you are not only focusing on space for for our people, but for allies and for people that live in places that aren't Los Angeles or San Francisco or New York City, and so that vision of uniting purpose a vision, but then purpose in our community I love. It's inspiring and that's what motivates me, as the founder of TransZone, to highlight and shed light on these things, because business is so much more about just providing jobs and paying your bills. It's about change and it's about looking at what needs to happen and pursuing that change. And so I'm so inspired by what you're doing and kind of both phases of the vision, because talking about world changers, it just makes me so happy to hear about it and talk to you about it.

Speaker 1: 31:40

So can I add one thing? You know, I don't think any of this would have been possible, believe it or not, without COVID, at least the way we're doing it today. So, COVID, I'm actually relatively unique in that I started hormones on March 1st of 2020. So you remember, like by the end of March, we were in lockdown of 2020. So you remember, like by the end of March we were in lockdown.

Speaker 1: 32:09

So my transition is almost exactly coinciding with COVID, which also meant that, like you know, as I struggled with my early transition, you pretty much I got to wear a mask, and you know so it was very beneficial yeah.

Speaker 1: 32:21

But what that also meant is that individuals became much more comfortable doing business over the phone and zoom and email than ever before, and we knew that's where we were, where the industry was going.

Speaker 1: 32:35

But what that did is it just sped it up by probably about five or 10 years in terms of every single person who's doing business this way, and so the investment management business used to be a sit down with somebody, look them in the eye, face to face, and you really get to know that person on a one-on-one basis, and it became a very regional business, meaning that you only invested with somebody that you were able to see face to face, because, again, this is your life savings you want to feel comfortable with the person you're working with.

Speaker 1: 33:07

When COVID happened, it allowed me to take this concept, because if it was just Catherine Swain sitting in her office in LA working with clients that were within 50 miles of me, while there are plenty of folks in my market to be able to support a business, what I really honestly believe for this business is that this is going to be the brand and my fingers crossed for the LGBTQ community nationwide, so that we can actually scale up this business and hire advisors all over America, but they don't necessarily have to be in your hometown, and so COVID really changed the game for us, because it basically gave us a leg up in terms of working with our community wherever they may be.

Speaker 3: 33:59

Some benefits with COVID for me as well. Yeah, same here, yes.

Speaker 2: 34:03

Because real estate, we do a lot of open houses prior to COVID and then we have to switch to virtual and that's including virtual showings and everything, and people are comfortable buying it, just without really physically see it.

Speaker 3: 34:20

So that's a new technology too.

Speaker 2: 34:24

Okay. So um, catherine, so where can people find you? And and link to your business well, so I um.

Speaker 1: 34:36

Of course, our website is lgbtq invest um. I was to be to be honest. When I first started this enterprise, I was shocked that that website still existed and was available.

Speaker 2: 34:47

Right.

Speaker 1: 34:48

So we got it LGBTQ Invest, and then CatherineSwaynecom is what I call my hub page.

Speaker 1: 34:56

And that basically is all of my businesses. So that's LGBTQ Invest, that's Catherine's company, but it's also my radio show. I have a weekly radio show on power, 98, five satellite radio, and the name of the show, appropriately enough, is called Catherine and company. You can find us on Spotify and I heart radio and a number of different other places to to to download that. So so we have the live show on on 98, five satellite radio and then we have replays show on 98.5 Satellite Radio and then we have replays that are available on Spotify and other places.

Speaker 2: 35:28

How about social media platforms? Can people follow you somewhere?

Speaker 1: 35:32

Right, and then I'm at AceVein on Instagram. That's where I have a lot of fun, so please follow me there.

Speaker 2: 35:38

All the links will be provided under the show notes so people can check you out.

Speaker 3: 35:44

And we just want to encourage our listeners. First of all, thank you for listening and please subscribe. But businesses like this, businesses like what Catherine is doing, is imperative for us. It's important to get this information out. It's important to disseminate it to people everywhere, as we were talking about anywhere in the, in the country, really, but there are so many lives that can be such such directly impacted by this, by this information and by this resource that Catherine has done, and so I just encourage to tell your friends go to the links, mention them.

Speaker 3: 36:23

Let's get the word out that we can help our own people, and because if we don't do it, who will? Obviously, it's not too many people lining up for that, so well, can I say what, Michelle?

Speaker 1: 36:33

I'm gonna give you a plug because you know honestly when I think about um. So you know the real. The beginning of of LGBTQI, in terms of the formation of the idea, came from years ago. When I started my transition, the first thing I did was go out and find a transgender, doctor them my whole life story and let them examine my body. I want just for my own trust and my own sense of safety. I felt it was important to hire another trans person for that job. And then that blended into and I can probably try a little harder in my voice, but I have a voice coach and she's trans. And then I have a real estate agent and he's gay. And then I have a real estate agent and he's gay. And then I have countless other people who are allies and you know, my publicist is gay, my marketer is gay. You know my entire team of support staff for LGBTQ invest is part of the community.

Speaker 1: 37:36

Now, some of those hires just came out of, you know, because of what I'm already doing, but I actively sought other folks in the community, because that's what I wanted to do to support others, but also to make myself feel better about about where I spent my money. So supporting your community, and that's where trans own directory really makes a lot of sense, because that's a single place you can go. Any needs you have, you go you, you plug in what your category is and you're going to find people who are doing it who are a lot like you. So thank you, honey, for making that available. Thank you.

Speaker 3: 38:12

I mean, yes, it's all about us, it's about us, it's about the community, and the story is pretty silly. I was looking for a T-shirt and trying to find something that was actually trans created.

Speaker 3: 38:25

And you know there's allies out there and they're doing great and we love our allies and we support them as well, but there's not a lot of trans creators that get a lot of recognition or publicity from anywhere else anywhere really. So looking for that, so I would look for a resource and there was nothing. You know, there was some in our local LGBTQ directory, which was mostly outside of the area, which was interesting, but um, but we needed a place that we can all come together, and so I'm excited for businesses like LGBTQ invest to have this um as a resource, primarily to see to be a place where people can come to one place and see everything that's happening, to see all the great work that is being done in our community, and we have everything already. We don't have very many members yet, since we're just starting, but we have landscapers and art store, framing and CEOs. Now LGBTQ invest professionals, and so our community is amazing, it's broad and it's vibrant and it's so exciting to be able to highlight things like this.

Speaker 1: 39:30

Yeah, and honestly, today, I always go to your website first before I hire any new contractors, because I know that that's a way for me to basically make sure my money stays in the community.

Speaker 3: 39:42

Yes, exactly so important. Thank you, wonderful. Well, we just encourage everybody to know about these resources. To get the word out, catherine, I know, is available. She's made herself available to me to ask questions, to answer questions, to have someone to bounce off different ideas that you may have in terms of investing. So please use her, use this as a resource and let's build our community together.

Speaker 2: 40:05

Go way back around 2013, 12. Wow, it was a time when I started doing some movies, actings and LGBT love stories. That's how I kind of cross-packed with her, because at that time she has her YouTube channel and somehow we just connect through Facebook at that time. And then we never really met in person until one of our friends who unfortunately got murdered and we went through that whole. You know it hit home so we kind of went to the court hearing.

Speaker 2: 40:41

So her name is Celia Daniels. So, celia, tell us about yourself. Introduce yourself like your background. How did you begin your gender identity journey?

Speaker 4: 40:57

Yeah, thank you so much, Shelby. I identify as a gender non-binary person of color. I'm an immigrant termination. I have 25 years of experience working in the corporate industry and one of the advocacies that I focus on is bringing change in the diversity spectrum from the bathroom to boardroom, and that's my passion. That's what I love doing educating companies and bringing my corporate experience and helping companies to hire more trans and gender non-binary and intersex community into the workplace.

Speaker 3: 41:30

So that's what I do.

Speaker 2: 41:31

That's great. I love that. Bathroom to the boardroom yeah, that's an awesome thing. So I know you're involved with Trans Can Work about which trans, uh, trans can work. I want to tell you a funnest funny story that nobody knows. It's kind of embarrassing personally, because when they first started about 2016 remember, um, I was cast to do like their information, information commercial. But but somehow, because I, you know, you, you two probably know my story I had a breakup and then that was at that time and then I forced myself to show up and then I did it very horrible, I cannot read my lines and then they asked me smile, smile, smile.

Speaker 2: 42:19

I just can't smile anyways that's just my little my little connection with Trans Can Work, but throughout these years I can see they do a lot of different job affairs right.

Speaker 4: 42:33

Absolutely yeah.

Speaker 2: 42:34

Job affairs, trying to hire trans folks, right and those are yeah, I've been one time and they are not mom and pop businesses like a major um big names and banks and stuff, yeah. So can you tell us, like, what's your role in in this?

Speaker 4: 42:52

uh, trans, yeah so I'm in the executive board for trans can work and I've been involved with the organization. When michela mendelsohn started this organization, she was the ce CEO of El Pollo Loco.

Speaker 2: 43:05

Yeah, a franchise.

Speaker 4: 43:06

So she offered jobs for almost 50 Latino marginalized community in El Pollo Loco. That made a big splash across the country and even Katie Couric had featured her on some of the magazines that came out in. I think even in National Geography not in National Geography one of the, I think in National Geography it was featured as Gender Revolution. So there were a lot of things she made and it created an interest in me to think about it because I wasn't out at the time. I was still trying to be out. I was out in the community but I wasn't out in the workplace because I was afraid of losing my job. And that's when I started volunteering for Trans Can Work, being out there trying to help them get some opportunities in companies. And I've been in panels with Trans Can Work and in fact I went as Celia and presented along with Trans Can Work, with Mekela in a company where I was consulting as Daniel.

Speaker 4: 44:03

It was funny. They didn't know who this person was and I was talking about the products and everything that I knew and they were all curious who is this person? How does she know our product? She knows by name and I didn't come out at the time because I was still a little worried, but it's funny how I have been. Uh, my journey has been all these organizations, even lgbtq la organization, you know. All of these organizations have been a great stepping stone for us and friends like yourself you know, it really helped a lot in those times when we were all in the same boat. We were like trying to figure out what's going on with our lives, and trying to. We didn't know where our future is going to take us to. And look at where we are years after.

Speaker 2: 44:50

Yeah, so so you mentioned about you didn't came out before your last job and then you came out. Did you lose your job after you came out and you started your own business? Is that what happened? Did you lose your job after you came out and you started your own business?

Speaker 4: 45:05

Is that what happened? No, I was working with companies which are doing clinical trials for biopharmaceuticals. My experience comes in the healthcare and life sciences industry, so I was working in the industry for a while and my gender dysphoria was very high at the time. I couldn't be presenting myself as Daniel. I'll be wearing suit, presenting, I'll go back to my room or my hotel or my house and then put on a maxi dress and feel like my head is above the water. You know, breathing up, taking deep breath like oh my God, I'm so comfortable now and it was really hard and I was doing that for a very long time. And that's when I quit my final, one of the last consulting companies. It was a top five consulting firm in America.

Speaker 4: 45:50

I quit that company. I was three levels below the CEO, reporting to my executive director, who was a senior vice president at the time, and I could not continue anymore and I felt like I had to leave and I quit that company and I started pulling my resume together as Celia put she and they pronouns and started applying in all the companies almost like 30, 40 companies across LA. Every company that had a pink flag, a rainbow flag, that would hire me, I put my cover letter, I was excited. I started writing all these amazing resume and I started applying for jobs and I went for trans can work, job fairs. And what was surprising to me is companies are willing to hire trans people at a lower level, but they were not willing to hire trans folks at a senior level.

Speaker 4: 46:42

I was a senior executive in a company and I'm a brown person and women are struggling here. How would they hire a trans person like me? And so I faced discrimination. I was without a job for one year. I was struggling for a job and that's when it occurred to me that wow, this is really happening and I didn't compromise on it. I had almost like 800 people reporting to me across the globe. My P&L was 250 million and I had so much of equity built in my resume value that I had as a brown successful businessman, daniel. But when I came out as Celia, the kind of jobs I was given was project coordinator, administrator and maybe less than $80,000. I was earning around $250,000 to $300,000. And here my salary just went back into like $80,000 with 25 years of experience in the industry, just because I came out.

Speaker 2: 47:49

Right, we did an episode on that about the ratio and status, right, michelle?

Speaker 3: 47:56

Yes, the pay gap right. Yeah, it's incredible.

Speaker 2: 48:00

So that's why we kind of do this show, michelle, um, because you know, we encourage we, we know that this problem is there, but we want to solve it, we want to be moving on, you know. So that's why we do this show to encourage people to own their own business, be entrepreneurs right, so that motivated me go for it.

Speaker 3: 48:21

Sorry, I'm sorry. What are some of the things that those corporations told you in that time? That they didn't recognize your experience because you now are presenting as a woman.

Speaker 4: 48:31

I'll give you one experience. In a trans job fair there was a senior I won't mention the company of the fair I had this interview, but the senior vice president of this financial company. She looked at my resume and she looked at me and said celia, I. And I said there is a job in your company as a director. Can I join your company? And this is a trans job fair. And she said celia, I don't think you will fit into our company because they're all white old men and I don't want to put you in front of them. As much as I really want to make a change in the company. I myself I'm struggling.

Speaker 4: 49:15

She was a senior vice president of HR and to me that told volumes and I said can you please get me one interview? You know I will be able to impress them. I am a great credential and I can do it. She tried and she came back to me and she told me that Celia, I'm not going to lie to you and I cannot. She was a good ally, but those are the kinds of stories I heard. And in another company, which is a mobile company, verizon, when I applied for a job and I went for the interview the HR manager. She told me you look like a woman. You don't have to tell your trans, don't worry about it. And I said you're not listening to me.

Speaker 4: 49:53

I'm gender non-binary. I don't want to identify as a woman and I don't want to. This is my identity, and so I don't.

Speaker 4: 50:04

it's not a compliment saying that I look like a woman. You know that's a wrong thing to say. There were lots of things like this, especially one of the interviewer. A recruiter called me and said am I talking to Celia Daniels? And I said yes, this is she. And he started on and on and he said but you sound like a man. I told him did you check my resume before calling me? Did you check my LinkedIn before calling me? And he said no, I did not and that's why I'm calling you. And I said you should do your homework before calling a trans person. My pronouns are very clear. My LinkedIn profile is there. Why didn't you look at it before calling me? And then he said he didn't even apologize. It went on and on and I was so I felt so much of gender dysphoria on that call because he mentioned again hey, but excuse me for a second, you sound like a man. I'm sorry. Are you really senior, daniels? And that's the time it hit me that I said no, this conversation is over. And he was from a very reputed firm and for me to turn down that offer as a senior program manager for that company was really hard because I thought this is a great opportunity.

Speaker 4: 51:21

1.4 million views on LinkedIn. On LinkedIn, nobody sees. You know if you probably get like 10,000 views, 1.4 million views on LinkedIn, and in two days it went to 2.4 million and I was curious as to what people are telling about the situation. Are they really getting a message? It's not Celia's story, it's our story. There are people like us who are being marginalized, even in the interview process.

Speaker 2: 52:03

They are not educated and to me that was appalling. So yeah, there's so much that companies need to learn to change the way they work. Opinion on it.

Speaker 2: 52:08

I think when I first worked in Transamerica, I do a lot of phone calls in the beginning and I did say my name, but you know, shelby can be a man too. So when I call and then in the beginning they always say sir, thank you, sir, hi, sir, yeah. But then over time I kind of know how to adjust my voice higher, actually, or software, and now the problem has gone away, unless I I just woke up. Then it's different story. But then, yeah, but then the other kind like it's like I think some people purposely call you that to to offend you because I went to a city hall for real estate business to find out the blueprints and you know permits and all that. And then you know city hall has different.

Speaker 2: 52:57

When you walk in there's a security, there's barriers you need to go through. So at that time, from that point, when I go to the window, nobody call me sir or man or anything. But when I get to the window, this is this girl younger than me, and I asked a lot of questions. I think she got annoyed, so she said no, sir, that's not it. So at that point I know, because I look like this, you know I'm not looking right, you know like, you know, I'm looking about you right.

Speaker 2: 53:30

So so I think there's, I for you, what your story just told me. Maybe they did it on purpose. Try to not hire you and you just I don't know, just my opinion, so do you have any.

Speaker 4: 53:42

Yeah, you're right, they may be checking boxes too. A lot of times I feel like, hey, we want to hire a black person. We want you know George Floyd happened. Oh, anti-asian issues are happening person. We want you know george floyd happened. Oh, anti-asian uh issues are happening. Let's hire an asian person. Uh, and trans people are getting murdered every year and almost in 2021, there were 50 trans people, trans uh women, and almost more than 85 percent of the folks who are murdered were trans people of color and uh. So companies are just intentional or sometimes very performative. They just want to hire people because, um, they want to check these boxes shelby and sometimes. And so companies are just intentional or sometimes very performative.

Speaker 4: 54:17

They just want to hire people because they want to check these boxes Shelby and sometimes you know what really bothers me is you can change a person who's ignorant. You cannot change a person who's arrogant.

Speaker 2: 54:26

Yeah, and then I like what you're saying, because during July we just had Pride Month. Every company you saw is about Pride Month, but when?

Speaker 3: 54:38

Celia says.

Speaker 2: 54:39

Pride Month is now. Pride is not just a month, it's 365 days.

Speaker 4: 54:46

Yeah, absolutely, I think. Go for it.

Speaker 3: 54:54

How do you see things are changing now? All of us have had experiences like that and will continue to, because we still live in a very messed up world, but what positive things have you seen that have been more inclusive, more accepting, more even questioning or asking what our preferred name is or what our preferred pronouns are? What have you seen that's been positive?

Speaker 4: 55:14

Yeah, now looking at the statistics in California, 27% of the youth in California according to the Williams Institute in 2019 that came out identified as gender non-binary. The numbers are going up every day and even if you look at in 2030, the workforce is going to be 75% of the workforce is going to be millennials and Gen Zs. We are looking at a revolution where people are coming out of not just a process issue, a technology issue, but also a people issue. They never had people issues so far. Covid disrupted the whole industry. It disrupted the whole world, where people have started telling the companies that this is how I'm going to work. You want to figure it out? So companies are now thinking about what they can do proactively. They are trying to hire trans folks. I'm working with a company today to implement pronouns. It's a $26 billion pharmaceutical in California and I'm trying to bring in the pronouns and I see that everyone is willing to use pronouns. But unfortunately, according to the Pew statistics, 48% of the Americans are still not comfortable using pronouns because they see what is on the top Bathroom. They only hear bathroom pronouns, bathroom sports pronouns. They don't see under the surface how much we have struggled homelessness, being, um, you know, going through mental health issues, going through incarceration issues uh, every area of our life we've been going through all these issues and they don't see what is the root cause of the reason why people are different.

Speaker 4: 56:48

Companies are changing, but I would say that, um, I see a lot of change in the media industry also. The way in which ads have come. It's always demeaning to the trans community. We've been portrayed as you know, drag queens or having a fishnet stock or just kissing someone. It's always about that. I want to see trans entrepreneurs in the media industry. I want to see entrepreneurs, ceos, being portrayed in the media industry. I want to see trans entrepreneurs in the media industry. I want to see entrepreneurs, ceos, being portrayed in the media industry. I want to see astronauts who are trans in the media industry, and that's the way we want to change things.

Speaker 4: 57:21

It's happening, but I'm glad that the younger generation is able to change that for the Gen X and big boomers boomers and I'm so hopeful that that's going. The gender expansive community is much more on fire than my generation. My daughter is more, much more open to being an advocate for me than me. You know she talks about yeah, she's very, she's 22 years old. I came out when she was 12. But I see that kind of change and to me that is very encouraging, that the future generation, they're all thinking and they are all changing the way in which companies need to.

Speaker 4: 58:03

I see a lot of change in the smaller companies. You know startups and smaller companies than the traditional companies. Ibm has done a great job, but when you look at companies which are culturally heteronormative, they have a lot more to do and it's not about compliance in the companies anymore, it's about compassion over compliance. It's not about compliance, because compliance is important and they need to look at gender, non-binary. In 2023 in your equal employment opportunity act, you need to add all that information. But it's also important not just to create a business value. While you're adding a trans person, look at the human value.

Speaker 4: 58:46

And that's what I try to advocate for and that's what I see companies doing is hey, if we hire, we are much better than our peers, we are innovative, we are productive, so they create a business case. Then I always tell them keep the business case to the CEO, get the funding, get the approval when you execute it. You want to make sure the employees are transparent. You want to tell the entire employees that we are doing this intentionally to create a change and, in our workforce, to have a psychological safe environment. That's the kind of workforce we are looking at, not just checking boxes. You know, black, asian, american that needs to go away. I hope there will be one day when you don't have to check any of the race and ethnicity boxes. Yeah, it's like human being.

Speaker 2: 59:33

You know, it's like human being human people, right people, people, yeah, yeah. So, um, I also, uh, realized that you, you noticed that you recently got into linkedin top 10 lgbtqi plus voices. How, how did you like? How did they pick those people? Like, what did you have to do?

Speaker 4: 59:55

yeah, I.

Speaker 4: 59:55

I keep on advocating for the corporate change and that's been one of the things that I've been doing and they've been following me. Actually, I didn't know that, um, but I think what broke the grass glass ceiling was the uh, 2.4 million hits in two days and my story was featured as the LinkedIn top stories for that day. And then, I didn't know, my friends called me and said Celia, you've been featured as the LinkedIn story for today and I looked at my thing and then came the Ukraine war, and then came other things and I was like seriously are they really doing this?

Speaker 4: 1:00:32

I was happy for that day, but I knew it will end. Because, sometimes you get caught up in all this.

Speaker 1: 1:00:38

And.

Speaker 4: 1:00:39

I wanted to leverage and I said you know, this is great. People are learning. It's not Celia's voice, it's Michelle's voice, it's Shelby's voice, it's the voice of people like us. And so LinkedIn called me and said we want to add you as one of the top 10 voices for lgbtq in 2022. Um, it's it's a good pat on the back. I I wouldn't. You know, I think we are all doing a great job, and so the recognition was a good pat on the back to me, and I will still continue to do not because they have given me an lgbtq voice, but I think we do. We are all amazing LGBTQ voices in this country and across the world.

Speaker 2: 1:01:16

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:01:19

Yeah, I think that is important. It is just a pat on the back but it does recognize you and for your voice, for the work that you've been doing and you've been doing so many things for so many years and I've kind of seen you from the from the kind of the outside looking in, and I transitioned just over. Well, it's about three years ago, almost three years ago now, and so I'm still the newbie here. But but I think it is important for us to recognize people like yourself that has put in the effort and put in the work and seeing this change, and some of us that are new, that are coming in or maybe even not in a position to be able to transition yet. We can still base and learn from you and, based on your experiences, we can kind of help pattern our experiences around that.

Speaker 3: 1:02:06

One of the questions I had was how would? Because I think a trans person will make a great DEI advocate. What would be some ways? I actually have a friend that's she's a very good, because I think a trans person will make a great DEI advocate. What would be some ways? I actually have a friend that's she's a very good cis ally, but she wants to enter the DEI space because she really wants to advocate for the trans community specifically, but of course, everybody as well. What are some ways someone without a college degree or degree with something else, what are some ways people can get into this space?

Speaker 4: 1:02:33

I think the first important thing is to connect with the community, to understand the community, to listen to the community. Learning to unlearn certain things, for example pronouns, was hard for me when I had to use they. I was raised with an Anglican English grammar, from England, from in India, so to me using they was really hard and then I had to unlearn that. This has been used since 13th century in Shakespearean language. It's always been there in pickpick papers. It's been there in. A lot of authors have used they as to describe a person they didn't want to describe a gender. So it's been there.

Speaker 4: 1:03:14

And I think in getting involved in the community, understanding the community is so important so I can give you one quick example. That is allies. The word allies means acknowledge your privilege that you're a cis person who's trying to help trans community. Listen to the voice of the trans folks in our community. Learn to unlearn things, which is very important. Instigate tough conversations and be in situations where you have to make tough decisions, and E is to educate yourself and to educate others First you need to educate yourself.

Speaker 4: 1:03:47

You can't just educate others and start educating yourself after that. The last one is support by being involved in the community. So this is something that I would advise to your friend when you look at being an ally, is understanding the whole package of being an ally. It's not just and you don't have to have a college degree, you just need to have a heart. Your academic qualification probably gives you a platform, but I've seen that I am in platforms where there are judges in the call. There are, I would say, someone who has written, councilmen, councilwomen, people who are very, very important, making changes in the call, and I'm part of those conversations because they want to hear my point of view as as a person of color and an immigrant. So there are a lot of times I feel that it's good to have someone advocating for us. But the most important thing is to not take away our space, because I've seen a lot of I posted in my recent posting on LinkedIn is give voice and give a platform for the trans community to tell their experiences and stories.

Speaker 4: 1:05:12

The cisgender folks cannot share experiences like what we have gone through, the discrimination we have gone through, the issue issue we faced, they will not be able to share those narrations. You know they'll be just giving you theory. They will just say oh my, by the way, my friend shelby went through this, my friend michelle went through this, but it's not their story, so it's not. You don't need a college degree for this. You need a good a way to improve in your public communication. So toast you need a good way to improve in your public communication. So Toastmasters is a good way to improve your public speaking skills so that you will know how to articulate better within a given time.

Speaker 4: 1:05:44

And I've been taking Toastmasters for a while and my communication has improved quite a bit. I had a lot of vocal spikes and I was able to learn to communicate much better and articulate much better because of these platforms. And so I would say you know, learn public speaking, be there and keep on listening to the voice of the community. When you have a panel discussion where, if your friend her name is Susan is invited to speak, she needs to give a platform for Michelle to come and share her story, while Susan can talk about DEI as an ERG group, as a person who is a part of the ERG, but when it comes to the trans portion of it, bring people from the community an Asian person, a black person, a Native, a native american person. You know who can be a part of these conversations, and then you tie them together rather than telling their stories, which is not a great way to be an ally, but to so that's something that I would advise excellent, very well, thank you for that.

Speaker 2: 1:06:51

Okay, so tell us about your new business venture. Where can people find you and what kind of service do you do? And all that goodies.

Speaker 4: 1:07:02

Absolutely so I started a management consulting firm called Rubicon Consulting. Rubicon came from my daughter's name. Her name is Rebecca, so I made it Rubicon. It's like the Rubicon company and then consulting LLC. What I do is I used to consult for biopharmaceuticals and healthcare companies, managing large projects. I've done HIPAA project management. I've done PMOs, pulling all strategies together from a molecule to market what you need to do.

Speaker 4: 1:07:37

I've been working in the space for a while and then I kind of thought about it in a different way and I said I'm a trans person, I'm out in my workplace, and so let me start talking about DEI, because if I can change the hearts of the people, company will change and so we can hire more trans people. So that's when I started the tagline as redefining D-N-I-B from bathroom to boardroom. A lot of times we are not invited to make strategic decisions in the ERG. Even products that we have today in the market, you cannot put they them in the product. While I was admitted last year in the hospital, in the ER, because I had a cardiac issue, I went there and I was lying on the table. I look very gender neutral, I have earrings and I was lying there. This person took my ID and there was an X in my ID but she kept looking at me. She kept looking at it and then she went to the system. It was a GEMR, an electronic medical record system. She added an M in the system because the system didn't have an option for an X.

Speaker 4: 1:08:54

So sometimes we need to change technology, vendors also, and when you build a product we have to make sure it's neurodiverse People can use it. So someone who's having dyslexia, someone who's having color, visually impaired folks, people like us, we need to be included in that. So I've been vocal about all the product companies. So product companies send me their products to evaluate and see if it's gender inclusive. I do that for some companies free of charge. I started writing policies for companies too. I've written policy for a very large electrical company and I continue to do that. I continue to advocate for policy change in the company.

Speaker 4: 1:09:32

Don't just hire trans people. Don't just hire trans people. Don't just hire trans people if you don't have policies, if you don't have framework, if you don't have people, process, technology in place. Get all that, get your ducks in a row and then hire people. And that's my story across the board. So mental health challenges, you know, talk about it, and I've seen that a lot of them started inviting me to panel discussions and they want me to speak and I told them don't call me next year if you have not done anything about this.

Speaker 4: 1:10:00

I say it in a nice way, not not in an arrogant way, but I told them you call me every year. What are you really doing inside, you know? And they'll say, yeah, we're having a hard time. You know, we have some bosses who don't agree with this LGBTQ. I said you know, that's why Change it. Change it, I'll help you change. Write policies, speak to your HR. I think that's what I love doing, that's my destiny and that's what I do. My company is listed on LinkedIn in my profile, and also I'm a part of trans can work and the executive board trying to hire, and I'm also politically active. So I'm the vice president of stonewall democrats in ventura county.

Speaker 4: 1:10:41

I do a lot of advocacy in our county and this august, end of august, I'm going to the police station and educating my police chief here in thousand oaksaks about the way in which they need to be sensitive to the LGBTQ community. So I do all that because I'm working with a county, ventura County, to do D&I rehab, a department of rehab. I work with them. So I think we have a lot to do. We have a very small lifespan on this planet. I want to make a difference. I don't want to die as a CEO of a company, but if I create a CEO from a trans person, if I create a trans leader, if I create a trans astronaut, if I create a trans entrepreneur, and then that's what I am called to do. I'm called to enable people, I'm called to enrich and empower people and that's what I love doing and I'll continue to do that till I leave this planet.

Speaker 2: 1:11:42

That's awesome, Like a legacy right.

Speaker 3: 1:11:45

Yes, yeah, you're amazing. Thank you so much for all of your effort, and please understand that it's okay to receive accolades from other people, but really from our community. Thank you so much for all the work you do. You are affecting change on the front lines that will impact so many of us, and so we stand in gratitude to you. Thank you so much.

Speaker 4: 1:12:08

Thank you, michelle, thank you, shelby, for what you do.

Speaker 2: 1:12:11

Yeah, so we're going to close this out. Do you have any advice for people maybe? I always ask this for all the interviewers because, like you just said, our experience really counts, really make a difference. A lot of other people they speak, they, they pull the data, they pull the numbers or theory, so so that's why, you know, I always ask our guests what's your advice for the, for our audience, listener, who, who may be ally or who may be not, you know, thinking about transition and not too sure you know on that stage absolutely.

Speaker 4: 1:12:51

I think we all have our own journeys. And find out what your journey is and, confidently and boldly, just go ahead with your journey, no matter what people say about your gender, the way you identify, the way that you use your pronouns. Just do it and you will be able to see that the community will change around you only if you change. I think it's important for you to leave the change, you to be a confident person in the room. And if I can make a difference, a South Asian immigrant who was so shamefully living in India with guilt and shame can come out and create a change in a 40-year-old, $26 billion company. I'm the first trans, gender, non-binary person who made a change where my legal name is different from my birth name, from my authentic name, and if I can make a change, we all are change makers.

Speaker 4: 1:13:47

You may be working in a McDonald's, you may be working in a small firm, you may be in a big firm. You have not come out, but just think about how much impact you can make Even if you don't come out. Find what your journey is and slowly come out the way you want to, not because others want you to. And for the allies I would say, as I mentioned earlier, you are an amazing ally and I'm sure that you will continue to be an amazing ally, but please give us a platform to hear our voices Shelby's voice, michelle, my voice and people from our community in your panel discussions, in your conferences. Bring us in there, even if it's 10 minutes, 15 minutes, and that's going to change your conversation, the dynamics of how you manage your entire program and your, your trainings, your events. It will make a big difference. So, thank you so much for this amazing time.

Speaker 4: 1:14:48

Thank you so much I know we have a lot to catch up.

Speaker 2: 1:14:52

Yes, we have to catch up again in another episode or outside of both.

Speaker 4: 1:14:58

Both. Actually, I would love to talk about Melody at some point in time.

Speaker 2: 1:15:03

Yes, we haven't had a chance to talk about her.

Speaker 4: 1:15:06

We will do one session on that as to how the law firms. Yesterday I was in LA Lambda Legal.

Speaker 2: 1:15:13

I was in one of their meetings.

Speaker 4: 1:15:15

So I was thinking about our situation. It's definitely a good conversation for our next conversation podcast yeah, about. Merrily yes, yeah, those things will be great.

Speaker 2: 1:15:27

All right. So thank you for your time and thank you for all the information that you share and all your activist work.

Speaker 3: 1:15:34

It's very amazing and inspire me personally yes, likewise, and we'll be sure to put all the links.

Speaker 2: 1:15:41

Yeah, your links and your website everything.

Speaker 3: 1:15:43

We'll put them on the show notes as well as youtube, so thank you so much, cecilia, for your time.

Speaker 2: 1:15:48

Thank, you so much. We'll invite you back very, very soon. All right, so thank you for listening and watching.

Speaker 3: 1:15:58

We will be back next time yes, your voice matters, just remember that. Thank you you.