The Unseen Side of Political Debates: Jubilee Stars Speak Out

Hosts Blossom C. Brown and Shane Ivan Nash welcome Jubilee debate veterans Ryan and Greg for a candid conversation about representation politics, privilege, and the challenges of progressive activism.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Guest Introductions
• 3:15 Life After Jubilee and Recognition
• 11:20 Understanding Privilege and Identity
• 25:00 Activism, Platforms and Responsibility
• 38:25 Trans Representation and Economic Barriers
• 49:40 Behind the Scenes of Jubilee
• 1:22:15 Supporting Fellow Activists and Creators
• 1:32:20 Call to Gay Magazine and Final Thoughts

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

This is the Transparency Podcast Show.

Speaker 2: 0:04

Welcome to the Transparency Podcast Show. It is your girl, blossom C Brown, hello, hello. And I am here with my wonderful, fabulous co-host, with the mostest Shane, ivan Nash. What's going on? You know Where's our hand clap.

Speaker 3: 0:21

You know, I don't know where our hand clap is. There it is.

Speaker 2: 0:25

You know I don't play about the hand clap. I love that. Yes, yes, welcome to the show y'all. And so if you are new to our channel, make sure you hit the subscribe button down below, so that way you'll know when we're on the air. Now, honey.

Speaker 3: 0:38

Yes, ma'am.

Speaker 2: 0:39

Today. I'm excited about the guests that we have in today, so from a few Jubilee videos you may recognize these faces. Today on the Transparency Podcast Show, we have Greg, yeah, and we got Ryan in the studio. Hello, welcome to the Transparency Podcast Show. Y'all how, y'all doing. I'm good you look fabulous and moisturize thank you, I did I have for me it's oily skin, like people are like.

Speaker 1: 1:13

I mean like I'm older than I look, and people like how are you aging? So I'm like my skin self-moisturizes, that's, that's it. I occasionally get acne because of it, but I'll never dry out.

Speaker 4: 1:22

So that was my first impression of you. I was like this guy's oily. No, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 3: 1:27

Wait, did you write it down your notepad?

Speaker 2: 1:30

where is your notepad?

Speaker 3: 1:32

that is your trademark.

Speaker 4: 1:33

I told you that you know people have recognized the brand. They've been like is that like? I don't even. I don't even know what the brand is, I don't remember, but they're like is that like a blah blah and I'm like I feel like that.

Speaker 3: 1:43

No, wasn't it like a rocket journal or something?

Speaker 4: 1:45

yeah, like, like it's like it's like you can erase it not that I knew sounds like uh, you had your first brand partnership in the pipeline, maybe, maybe yes

Speaker 3: 1:55

from a branded drink.

Speaker 2: 1:56

Yeah, we got this, y'all, we got this. So y'all were in a few jubilee episodes, so let me make sure I get this right. Yeah, so we did the Michael Knowles debate together. You both did 20 and 20, or was it 25 and 25 with Shane? And then you and I did 30 and 30 together, so we've all crisscrossed each other.

Speaker 3: 2:16

And then we did Ben Shapiro.

Speaker 2: 2:17

Oh yeah, we did.

Speaker 1: 2:20

Thank you for that. I think was that the episode where you turned the chair around. Was that it? Yeah, yeah, so honestly, I saw your plumber's butt crack before I saw you, I know, and I was like I Where's the button? I knew you were right there too, I was like fall, I was like.

Speaker 3: 2:39

I was like it's a German thing, though Did you know that that like butt cracks? Well, we apparently have longer butt cracks.

Speaker 1: 2:45

So junk in the trunk is what I heard.

Speaker 2: 2:49

It's the tallest you'll go. So listen, I love you. You called me out on that. We're talking about butt cracks and everything today, so how has life been since y'all have done these Jubilee episodes? Let's talk about it.

Speaker 4: 2:59

Yes, very good. Yeah, I went on Jubilee very kind of randomly and it worked out exactly as I hoped. I had a crazy experience, I made friends and I feel like I'm a little bit improved. The outcome of the video, maybe, and those were kind of my three goals.

Speaker 1: 3:16

So I was like uh, I, my goal has been ultimate. Like before the last election, I had been saying that my goal was to, like, inherit the daily show from whoever's hosting it, and so I could see you. I mean, I appreciate that.

Speaker 3: 3:35

Why are you not a correspondent already? You have the fucking haircut, the fuck.

Speaker 1: 3:40

It's a whole thing. I mean like it's a really competitive thing, just to be a yeah, you know and let's put it into ether now? Yes, done so like I've gone back, like I did stand-up comedy in college briefly and I got back into it this year because you know I've seen some of your clips are funny I appreciate that.

Speaker 1: 3:54

Yeah, I mean the the thing about, uh, stand-up is like it's. It's I mean it takes a lot of balls to stay up there. Like I've seen people bomb and it's like, actually I saw this guy bomb once. He was like he handled it like a pro. It's like I want to be like that anytime I fuck up in my life. I just want to handle it like a pro, you know. But Jubilee has got a big audience and it's you know, it's kind of one of those things. Like you know, if you believe in the law of attraction, like I am totally jealous of some of y'all who have gotten on to like traditional media from that Cause I haven't yet what I have had, though.

Speaker 2: 4:32

I think I'm the only one here.

Speaker 3: 4:34

Wait a second. No, I got an interview from the vice president, that's right.

Speaker 1: 4:37

Oh, is that all?

Speaker 3: 4:39

of the Hollywood reporter. Okay, make sure to shout that out. Okay.

Speaker 1: 4:45

Um, wood reporter. Okay, make sure to shout that out, right, okay, um, so shout out to liz. I've been I've been recognized in public a few times since, and the first time that had never happened to me before.

Speaker 1: 4:50

I was in, uh, tribeca, I think, somewhere in the lower manhattan, and I was I had put my my, my shoe up on a planter to retie my shoelace I think it was these shoes and somebody popped. It was like a bush had a bush in it and somebody popped his head around the bush and the player was like Ryan and I was like, oh god, this is somebody I didn't respond to on Grindr and he was like and he was like can I get a picture?

Speaker 4: 5:18

I was like I wonder if he just lives in that bush just watching Jubilee.

Speaker 1: 5:23

I mean listen sometimes, sometimes to live in New York, you, you have to live in a bush.

Speaker 4: 5:28

He's using that mall because they have like outlets.

Speaker 3: 5:29

Ryan just regularly visits that bush. He's actually making another trip to visit the bush right now.

Speaker 1: 5:33

Anytime I have to pee, I'm like where's that bush?

Speaker 2: 5:39

Ciao, hilarious. Now, what about you, greg, like, how has life been? And where is your pen and pad? Because that is your signature, by the way.

Speaker 3: 5:48

I know I'm kind of mad. You didn't bring it today. Sorry guys, I wanted to see the secrets inside.

Speaker 4: 5:53

It's the pen and pad on the inside that counts. That was good. I mean like I do all this stuff just like I do things for a funny story.

Speaker 4: 6:06

And then all this stuff, just like I do things for a funny story and then I backfill in everything else, like yeah, like I won't do slang for a funny story, like if it's like unethical or like ridiculous, but like, but like I, I just have been doing side quests. So, and that is that is why there's jubilee, that is everything fun. And then, in terms of like yeah, in terms of like more serious stuff, it's going good. You know, I'm uh, I'm married and that's going well. Um, I thank you. I, um, I've been doing like some academic stuff. That's fun.

Speaker 2: 6:32

I actually I I might be working on a, an academic paper with someone because of jubilee, yeah, which is crazy so for those y'all that didn't know, apparently in our debate with blair white, someone made an academic paper, because greg brought it to our attention. Yeah, apparently you're gonna be. You may be working with there's a guy who went to k.

Speaker 4: 6:50

He's he was. He got his phd from cambridge and now he's at like university of exeter, I think, and he wrote this, this analysis the uk with this yeah yeah, blair, white shit, I just I just googled. I just googled like like jubilee trans, just to it popped up and it was like it was like a, like a, like an academic paper in an academic journal where he analyzed the interactions did they analyze this?

Speaker 4: 7:14

well, yeah yeah, it was really interesting. So. So basically what what he said was like and it's not you know I I had to kind of google a lot of words to understand it but basically what this guy was saying was like in his opinion, Blair White, being a conservative, really wants people to be sort of sorted into buckets and into sort of like hierarchies, and the thing that Blair doesn't like is when the trans community welcomes people who don't respect like gender hierarchies and gender binaries. And so it was talking about I think there was a non-binary person there and Blair was like.

Speaker 4: 7:54

Blair was yeah, and Blair was. It was like you know this, I'm remembering this kind of loosely, but it was like Blair did not like the idea of this non-binary person being included in the trans community yeah, Whereas Blossom was like why not? And the assertion of the author was that this is a reflection of Blair's kind of broader, like conservative ideology, Because Blair wants the trans community mapped over existing sort of rules within kind of conservative thought and she wants to tweak them just enough to allow trans people to sort of you know, enter the party, but without kind of challenging the more un kind of core underlying structural things of it, so it's really interesting and I wrote him an email I wrote him emails like hey, like I just want to let you know like I read your paper, like I think it's cool and um.

Speaker 4: 8:42

and then he said that there's a type of paper in his field where you basically just interview someone and publish it as an academic paper. And he was like hey, what do you want to do that and submit it together? And I was like okay, so we'll see.

Speaker 1: 8:53

We'll see. I didn't read the whole paper, but did it talk about evolutionary psychology at all?

Speaker 4: 9:29

I think so. The main windows he looks at things through are really interesting. One's called Hauntology, which is like ghosts, how we're haunted by the past.

Speaker 3: 9:40

I was reading a little bit of what she sent me. I was like what is this?

Speaker 4: 9:44

And then the other one is Monster Theory, which is how monsters represent our fears. An example is Godzilla is a representation of fears of nuclear war, and that's one reason, and so it's like he just looks at things through this. It's almost like a. That's an interesting lens.

Speaker 3: 10:02

Well, especially appropriate.

Speaker 1: 10:05

Godzilla, I think, is originated in Japan and have a very real relationship with.

Speaker 4: 10:09

Exactly, Exactly. So we see, we see these things that you know upset us or traumatize us, kind of represented symbolically. So it's really interesting and I have really bad ADHD, so I was just going down the Wikipedia rabbit hole ADHD.

Speaker 3: 10:22

I feel like it's a superpower. I love it, I agree.

Speaker 1: 10:25

And my ADHD meds are like. Have you seen the movie Limitless with Bradley Cooper?

Speaker 2: 10:29

Yes.

Speaker 1: 10:31

It's like, that's how I feel, like I'm like I opened up the other 90% of my brain. Let's go.

Speaker 4: 10:35

I use caffeine for that, because I got I was on ADHD meds forever and then like I couldn't get them because the the pharmacist would like not tell me if they had it in stock, and then like my whole life revolved around like getting. Yeah, so I just, but I just, I just.

Speaker 2: 10:56

I caffeine. I'm learning more about adhd. I do not have adhd, but my partner does, and so it's been a very interesting journey so far, like learning the different aspects of it, learning the good side of it and the not so good side of it. So yeah you know, I definitely encourage all of us yeah to keep learning from each other.

Speaker 4: 11:10

Yeah, yeah, be friends with what you are.

Speaker 1: 11:13

No, I love that.

Speaker 4: 11:14

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 11:14

Oh my God, when you are fully commodified, I feel like I needed to see a rainbow. Yeah, you have a range of products that are branded with you. You're going to have a calendar that has statements like that that you've said yeah, exactly, thank you, I love that.

Speaker 4: 11:27

Thank you, I love that yeah the reason I ask about psychology is because, you know, as mammals, like we, evolved to put people in boxes.

Speaker 1: 11:38

That's how we navigate the world around us.

Speaker 1: 11:39

Yeah, and the the great leap of human psychology is that we have these higher thinking skills, where we do better than that yeah, that's not how we're programmed right, but we consciously choose to do better, and what people like blair white do is they consciously choose to defend the evolutionary thing we were doing, you know, tens of thousands of years ago. Instead of, like expanding what we're capable of as a species, they want to defend the evolutionary thing we were doing, you know, tens of thousands of years ago. Instead of like expanding what we're capable of as a species, they want to defend what we already have done, and that's a great way to not grow yeah, but blair white is a grifter in my opinion, just like buck angel is, I think.

Speaker 2: 12:07

Well, we've got grifters on the left side too.

Speaker 3: 12:09

I mean, if you see the unfuck america tour.

Speaker 2: 12:11

That whole situation has been just exploding yeah, but I think people on the left at griff, I think it's a lot different and a lot less detrimental than the ones on the right. I don't know, I mean I think. So that's what's been like in my experience and I think for me, and I think, and the reason why I say this is because I'm thinking about the amount of times I've been attacked and who it's coming from. So for me and my experience, when Blair White and Buck Angel talk the stupid shit that they talk True.

Speaker 3: 12:41

Their audience is more viscerally filled with hate.

Speaker 2: 12:46

I've never seen that like that. Now with the left I don't experience it as much Like if there is some hating on the left or whatever.

Speaker 1: 13:02

But there's a lot of anti-blackness. That goes on, oh, on both sides. I think there's a behavioral norm in on in culture on the left, of being not so aggressive, not being not so like, uh lean in hateful. So I think I think we on the left probably have a similar proportion of people who are hateful, but they express it differently because the culture on the left is not so as overtly aggressive as it is on the right.

Speaker 2: 13:16

You know, but here's the thing, though and I talk to you all the time about this All four of us usually go on conservative platforms to talk and debate and all of the things, or whatever, but do you feel that the left platforms us enough, or any, in this matter? Because I don't feel like the left platforms my voice, and I really wanted to know from all three of y'all, like, what are your thoughts on?

Speaker 4: 13:43

that for really quick. So I know that blair, white, trans conservative buck angel and all is he also yeah he's a fool. Okay, okay, um, no wait you know, how do you?

Speaker 2: 13:52

feel about you don't want to describe him and buck angel when you keep making them videos about me. Just know I'm all on the trans conservative platforms, on the conservative platforms in your face, yeah, but yeah so no, I think I think generally like I am.

Speaker 4: 14:08

I am a cisgender white gay guy. I have my pinky, like my part of my pinky fingernail, dipped into marginalization. It's like I could not be less marginalized while still being marginalized. Right, it's like I have the smallest little bit of that and like I, I explain that, can you like? Yes, seriously for the other gay white men that have no clue, because I'm like, oh my god, yeah yeah, so like I grew up in a like a country club republican household, uh you know, was no financial stress there.

Speaker 4: 14:38

Um, so you know what it's like to get a 500 driver yeah, okay, yeah, I know a lot of these things, yeah, and um and uh and I like I, you know, I I came at the time now, like people, I think I'm like a gaydar, like calibration test, like if you can't tell that I'm gay, like your gaydar's off. But like when I was a kid, like when I was a kid, like when I was a kid, like no one people at that time had a very like stereotypical, narrow idea of of gay people. So I, you know, obviously they still do, but more than and so like I didn't, I I wasn't like queer coded back then, like I, I got to be just like a straight white guy, right, and then I I was, very ironically, I was, I was very homophobic because I was, you know, kind of raised rejection. I was raised, oh yeah, because like I think.

Speaker 4: 15:21

I think I think we're raised.

Speaker 4: 15:22

That's the thing, like I think a lot of people on the left don't like not to sidebar away from the representation which the ultimate thing we're talking about here, but like I think that there's this sort of contradiction on the left where a lot of people on the left will be like you know what?

Speaker 4: 15:34

There is this steady, like inculcation of prejudice, where the way that the words we use, the media we see, advertisements, jokes, social norms, everything is just constantly slowly, just like like an iv drip of prejudice into us, um, and it warps how we see the world, and I think a lot of left leftists would agree with that. But then you meet somebody who might be the consequence of that process and, yes, they might be like an unrepentant bigot, but it's like I think a lot of people on the left don't consider the possibility that. Well, if we believe in this process, that's like brainwashing people. Maybe some people you meet have been brainwashed and maybe they're not sort of like intrinsically or reprobably horrific people in terms of their intentions, in terms of their potential. And I learned that when I realized I was gay, because I was very homophobic and I would describe society as very homophobic and I think that made me very homophobic and I would describe society as very homophobic and I think that made me very homophobic.

Speaker 2: 16:38

Was it internalized?

Speaker 4: 16:39

It was both yeah, so that was the thing I had to come out to myself and also like social norms. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 3: 16:46

Like you're amongst your peers and you didn't want to be isolated. And that's true.

Speaker 4: 16:49

There's so many layers to it One of the earliest like schoolyard jokes I remember and this was from you know. I think it's probably like the fifth grade was. It's very vulgar, it was like it was right wrong. Fun to watch. And it's like it's like kids with guns. I mean it's still true. No, I'm, and it's like, it's like, it's like. Just think about it's like. It's like, that's just so, that's so like, just like a casual come happy, I don't care joke you know what I mean.

Speaker 4: 17:18

It's like it's just in so many ways so yeah. So I, I realized I was gay and then I realized that, you know, I went, it's like multiple year process of like deprogramming myself, yeah, from prejudice, and then I realized, okay, if I was so off, I was in such another universe about how I understood this before I realized I was a part of it. Now let me think about all the other groups. I'm not a part of right, I'm not a woman, I'm not a person of color, I'm not trans, I'm not disabled, I'm not and it's like okay, like you can just think of so many.

Speaker 4: 17:50

You know, I, I didn't grow up, uh, I, I grew up like very economically comfortable, like all these things where it's like okay. I probably don't understand that the same way I did not understand this, and so that's what I mean by like I have like my pinky finger dipped in marginalization. It's like I have to. I extract, I extrapolated out how much I must not understand the experiences of all these other groups from my experience of essentially transitioning into a marginalized group.

Speaker 2: 18:22

Okay.

Speaker 1: 18:22

So I so want to take it down further a tangent about privilege.

Speaker 3: 18:27

No, no, please, it's about tangents. It's tangent time, and we'll all find a way to land it.

Speaker 1: 18:32

I love that. Well, this is, I mean. Privilege is something that I think about a lot, and the first thing I'll say is I have a friend who who describes the responsibility of cisgender, gay white men in society is like a sacred duty, because we straddle a line of privilege and adversity and we are, and also because most humans are conditioned to trust white men. We have more influence on the way other people think than most people, and which I kind of which is true.

Speaker 1: 19:04

I've felt the privilege when it's it's real, yeah, which kind of creates conflict sometimes with people who aren't cisgender white men in progressive spaces, and it's a whole thing about like who should be speaking when and where and why. But you know, blossom and I on the way here, we're talking about human behavior like this, as a society is like a is a complex system and it takes multiple attack angles to change a complex system. And I think it takes all the above. And the other thing about privilege that I think is really interesting is that we think of privilege as like a binary scale and it's maybe each individual identifier, gender identity, our ethnicity and stuff.

Speaker 1: 19:45

But really a person's kind of profile of privilege is really complex and it has to do with things like how were you raised socioeconomically, no-transcript, our privileges and moving target, but that's what it is. And when you contrast that with, like, our biology compels us to maintain whatever privilege we feel like we have and and honestly, to to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to categorize everybody else we interact with, it's really human behavior becomes really complex. So I try to give people who are not as back when we could say, woke without having weight people who don't get it. I try to give them a lot of grace because it's really actually kind of complicated and it's hard to get if you don't live it.

Speaker 2: 20:52

Yeah, and I think we have to talk about the privilege within the oppressed groups.

Speaker 4: 20:56

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 20:56

Like me, for example. Obviously I am the one with the least privilege here, but I'm also the one that's going to have to work harder than each and every one of you to be able to get to the same goals. And for me, I have to think about my privilege, even though I'm black and I'm trans and I have all of these things about me. I also understand that I have a privilege that some trans and non-binary people do not get to have. But for me, like I've been on camera for over a decade now, being able to speak my truth and have these platforms, and you know, like we've done these Jubilee debates and I was the one they pushed on Pierce Morgan and Dr Phil and I've done all these things and I'm very proud of it. But I know a lot of my trans siblings have not, and there have been times where some of my black trans sisters have actually called me out on my privilege and they were just like you know, um, you and I were both at the CNN town hall thing.

Speaker 2: 21:49

I remember that and when I got up and I protested, um, I got a lot of criticism from some of my black trans sisters were like, well, if that had been another black trans woman who dressed a certain way or acts a certain way or whatever, they would have just gotten dragged off stage.

Speaker 1: 22:05

Well, yeah, but that's an example of like the fluctuation of privilege, and like there is not a lot of utility in trying to humble ourselves with our privilege, because we have the privilege we have, and like a form of privilege is being extroverted. Yeah, a form of privilege is being confident. A form of privilege is being extroverted. Yeah, a form of privilege is being confident. A form of privilege is being articulate, and if that's the skill set that you have, if that's who you are as a person, there's no reason to to dim your light that doesn't help anybody but people who don't have that and envy it.

Speaker 2: 22:31

They take it as an affront sometimes and I think, uh, one of the talking points was I get to say whatever I want to say, no matter how controversial it is, and people think I don't experience consequences, like had it been an ordinary trans person that said the same thing, they would have lost more. I can admit I have privilege in that realm where you know, even at that debate or whatever, like you had three other trans women, three other Latina trans women being dragged off the stage with security, but then with the one black trans girl, I got to say whatever I needed to say.

Speaker 3: 23:05

Well, to be fair, though, blossom your presentation, the way you approached it, like yeah, it was a, it was a moment you know like, and you know how to grab moments in a way that others don't. Again, which is a form of privilege, is to be able to command the stage in that way, because, again it goes back to the confidence conversation a lot of people don't even have the confidence to stand up and do what you did. So that's that layer of privilege that I think some people can look at you and be like, yeah, I could never do one thing.

Speaker 2: 23:34

Thank you for communicating.

Speaker 3: 23:35

That's what I'm trying to say I told you I'll find a way to land it.

Speaker 4: 23:39

Two things that I think should important not to get lost in this, as well as one, like you're right, like the kind of heuristics we use that we've kind of evolved to use like kind of evolutionary shortcuts in our thinking um are natural right, but natural isn't good right. That's part of being a modern person, that's why we have socialized.

Speaker 4: 23:57

Yeah, like, that's why we learn. Like, like it's it. If you look in nature, you know, um, murder is natural, right, but we, we learn, we learn, we. Part of part of the project of being a socialized, civilized human being is to rise above our nature. And also in terms of, like these types of privilege, right, I think it's true, definitely, like um, for example, I am very close to being like a psycho with how little social anxiety I have, and that's just how I am naturally right and that's helpful and we can look at all these kind of different forms of privilege. I think it's also important to remember that when we're talking about intersectionality, like, it's still the case that, like I am, you know, a very socially confident white guy. Am you know a very socially confident white guy? Um, I am more privileged than someone who is like me in every way other than if they were not white, right.

Speaker 4: 24:46

So, like, I think sometimes not that you guys do this, but I think sometimes people kind of conjure up this fog of like, well, like, everyone has different advantages and different, different disadvantages, right, you mean, all lives matter and it's like it's like, it's like you, you have to remember that like, yeah, it's it's, you know, you could come up with these, uh, you know, kind of like hypotheticals, like oprah versus like a homeless white guy, whatever, but like, but like, generally speaking. Um, when it comes to these fault lines of, uh, gender, of race, of, you know, cisgender, transgender, it's very clear that, on balance, as a whole, there are certain groups that are just less.

Speaker 1: 25:25

Well, yeah, that's yes, but yes, and I should say it's important to pay attention to the nuance, because we are all conditioned to defend our struggles and people tend to trade on their struggles like currency.

Speaker 1: 25:42

Like people talk about who has it worse People we admire people who have it worse. Like we remember someone who won a marathon with a false, you know, like with a leg attachment as opposed to an organic leg. We admire that because it's adversity, it's a thing we value, and so, when we a non-starter, a great way to end a conversation with someone whose heart and mind you want to change is to point out to them how much more privilege they have than they think they have. Because, and when we have, when people, when oppressed peoples have conversations about who has it worse, the only party that, like, gets something positive out of that is the oppressor. Like that is the conversation the oppressor wants us to have Divide yourselves, so we don't have to do it for you. Like, get something positive out of that is the oppressor. Like that is the conversation the oppressor wants us to have Divide yourselves, so we don't have to do it for you, you know?

Speaker 2: 26:22

Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with having privilege. I feel it's how you use it. Yes, and. I think there's a lot of people with bigger platforms that use it irresponsibly Totally and I feel like the smaller folks, like you and I I'm not that small anymore.

Speaker 2: 26:45

Well, that's small anymore. Well, here's the thing. And when I say, when I say smaller folks, I mean the underdogs, yeah, I mean the most overlooked, the most tick tock. But we're out there and I just, and I just feel like it makes my job harder as an activist when you have people with larger platforms than me not using their privilege to help other people or to be able to shine a light on issues. It makes my job a lot harder.

Speaker 3: 27:01

But yeah, I'm invested in this work, like the rest of all of us are well, it's the issue with money being involved in activism, um, and content creators and activists.

Speaker 3: 27:14

Because, like the internet has gotten a bit murky with folks thinking that just because you have a large platform and you speak all the beautiful words that you've learned from the dictionary and you've learned the diction and you've learned this, that and the other, but you don't have the lived experience behind what you're saying or even access to, like, friends that have experienced that, so you're just regurgitating something with nothing behind it. Like it creates these content creators where they have millions of followers. Yeah, and that's what happened with the unfuck America tour, which it's being revealed all over the FYP, of this going wrong and that going wrong because you don't have people that are genuinely in it, in a way that have something to lose, who have organized you know stuff like that. Like again, my pitch for it what I think they should do is they should rename the tour. You know what I mean? Unfuck is not going to work.

Speaker 1: 28:07

Who are we talking about? You're also not going to get press with it.

Speaker 3: 28:09

No, you're not going to get press with it, let's just say names. It's the Dean Withers Parker tour thing that they're going to follow charlie kirk around and do that whole situation.

Speaker 2: 28:18

They're going to booty clap to charlie kirk.

Speaker 3: 28:20

Yeah, problematic, unconsenting ass exactly with everything that continues to come out my drink that gummy bear man, um, and that.

Speaker 3: 28:30

And I looked at the camera when I said, like, as an, as an organizer, an activist, as somebody who's actually like, changed things, laws, you know all of these things. What are they doing by chasing this man around, like for me and I've already pitched it on my tiktok, I'm gonna pitch it right here I think what they should do is create their own tour, rename it, um, and then also not just do political debates. I think there should be like a sports element to it as well, like. I think that, like, because I really would want to play a 1v1, charlie Kirk, anything you want to do basketball, baseball, swimming, golf let's play. Charlie, I'm literally calling you out and I will debate you afterwards, but you have to play sports with me first, because I want to see what you can do, because I don't even think you can swing a bat.

Speaker 2: 29:13

Stay away from me, charlie Kirk. I don't want to debate you, but I want to say something. I want to comment on something that you said you.

Speaker 3: 29:19

But I want to say something. I want to comment on something. No, I want to play sports, but I want to get into these college spaces, right, and I want this group to really start fortifying relationships with these call in the same way that charlie did yeah, bring these kids in and and have political debates and actually maybe even do like an after party where they're like actually doing like a social thing afterwards, so you're interacting with the people. So it's not just, hey, I'm going to come to your college and tell you what I think and, and if you don't, we're gonna clip, farm you and then everybody's gonna shame you on the internet. But meanwhile it's like what are you? What is the goal? Like there's no goal.

Speaker 2: 29:49

Let me say something to what you said about um lived experience.

Speaker 2: 29:52

I think that's really really important, because there is a difference between not a trans person on the tour there is a difference between commentary and then somebody with lived experience talking about their experience and sometimes as being a political commentator myself, like when I have to talk about issues that are not about trans women.

Speaker 2: 30:09

I try to keep that in mind and me and my partner my partner's trans masculine we've been having a lot of conversations about like trans men and how I should approach certain conversations as someone that does not live that experience, but somebody that needs to commentate on trans issues, because trans men issues are trans issues. So I also have to prepare myself for that and I've always wanted to talk about this. It's so weird because sometimes when I go on these platforms, especially these conservative ones, they have a habit of throwing somebody else's lived experience at me, backing me against a wall, because they know I don't have that lived experience to talk about it. I feel instead y'all should stop being lazy and just add on people who have that lived experience. But I have to remember in a lot of conservative spaces they don't want to do that work and I feel like it's more erasure on the liberal side too. So like both sides do this thing where they're playing ping pong with each other.

Speaker 3: 31:12

The liberal, like let's be real and let's call it out for exactly what it is. You know, if you don't fit a certain marker of you, meet this, that and the other with a certain amount of followers and you don't have this, and da, da, da, da, da. And it's like, and you don't act a certain way. It's like you and I cuss. You know what I mean. People look at us and go oh girl we know I don't listen girl.

Speaker 3: 31:31

No, we don't like whatever the the. This model is right, but the thing that, like I'm not quite understanding is, like that model did not win us the election. We need to shift as a party, and there's been so many people that reach out to me personally that say what I did to Ben Shapiro they wish they saw that more in the Democratic Party. Because I mean with with what happened at the education, where they were like, oh, there's a security guard, what are we going to push him over? Like make a move. Like go to jail for a night. Like you have enough money to pay that bail. Like bernie sanders, back in the day, got arrested left and right, like what happened to our politicians. Like there's, there's. We have to put some teeth on our side too, and you and I, I feel like, have inspired a lot of people on our side, but they're not quite catching on yet because we haven't quite hit whatever threshold goal in their mind, that we haven't reached a certain following. But but like I don't think you guys need to realize you need to get on the train now, because Blossom and I are trying to change the party, because we want to win the election. We do not want to deal with this bullshit and we have to face the things that are actually going on head on. We cannot create this like PR, like oh, let's put this person on and that person on and somehow we're going to get votes. Because no, because, like there's real systemic issues going on with people that are blue collar.

Speaker 3: 32:42

I work, one of my jobs is a warehouse job, so I work in in the shit. I'm working a very mask rough job, unloading a 13 panel truck in a day with one other guy, you know, and it's it's. It's not an easy job, but I'm also. That's why I have the opinions that I do, because I have my ear to the ground on what it's like in the economy for how people are struggling, what it's like to even have health insurance but you can't even go see the doctor because you can't even pay the copay. So what's the point of having health insurance? So what's the point of having the job? It's like people don't have that kind of on-the-ground, real experience and a lot of these influencers don't, because they're just panhandling on the internet for fucking you know pennies on a dollar.

Speaker 1: 33:24

I I so resonate with what you're saying, cause I grew up in a small town in the mountain South, like I grew up in Tennessee, and the County I grew up in is the widest and poorest County in the state, and so I grew up middle-class ish. But I grew up around a lot of um, poor and working class white people and you just can't, if you want to win something, you just can't tell somebody who is white, who is living paycheck to paycheck, who knows what it's like to be one like you know speeding ticket away from not being able to feed their family that month. You just can't tell them. Well, you know what you have it better than some others, because that's not how. That's not their lived experience.

Speaker 1: 34:00

And we don't. We try to be polite, we try to be, we try to curate the way we put ourselves out there, we try to restrict within our own communities, we restrict who gets to speak and none of that works. There's the thing on the right that they do well is that they are unafraid to get messy, thank you. They're unafraid to um, make mistakes, yes, and that's support the mistakes afterwards.

Speaker 1: 34:21

And and there's also this larger systemic thing of like on the right, there's a lot more effort to fund that, that, that like the thing, things that nonprofits here yeah, so like content, like the like tours, like Charlie Kirk does, um, all those kinds of things. There are people out there who are trying to find conservative voices to foster by funding them, and we don't have that on the left, like I, I, anybody wants to support us though sponsor reach out.

Speaker 1: 34:45

The email address is in the well, so I had a I just I just got denied a grant from a prominent LGBTQ organization that was soliciting grants for a thing. It was an event thing the idea.

Speaker 3: 34:57

Is it the one that I think of it?

Speaker 1: 34:58

probably, it probably is, oh god. And so, like I pitched them, like I pitched them on this uh project that I want to do of capturing like bite-sized videos of real trans people telling their stories, because what we need on the internet, in part, is a whole library of like I want to flood the zone of real trans people's stories. Yeah, um, and I didn't get that grant and I don't know yet who did get it, but it made me think who was reviewing these grants from LGBTQ applicants that didn't look at that and go? That is something we definitely need to fund. Like what, what? Why do we have so little money to go around and why do we have so little effort to to have a diverse offering of opportunities to interact with liberal ideas and LGBTQ people, etc. Of opportunities to interact with uh, liberal ideas and lgbtq people, etc. But, like you know, I think 90 of uh podcast views or listens are on right-leaning podcasts like and that's not just.

Speaker 1: 35:49

That's why I built this fucking thing nobody's doing right and part, and the biggest reason why is that a lot of there are so many more well-funded podcasts but liberals are not.

Speaker 2: 35:58

They need to get their shit together. Yeah, like the democratic party just needs to get their shit together. We don't get along with each other. We're always infighting and nobody can come to a certain can come to like one conclusion on how something should be built and talked about. They don't have the backbone yeah they came in a lot well to the conservative party well, I just Can.

Speaker 1: 36:19

I just tap onto that real quick. The other side of that is we also don't give anybody grace if we think they're wrong. So not only do we have the offensive part that we don't do.

Speaker 2: 36:29

Moral superiority, perfection yes.

Speaker 1: 36:31

So we have that offensive thing that doesn't work and then well, defensive sort of we also don't. I believe that everybody whose heart and mind we want to change deserves as long of an off ramp as they need to change. But what we do we created cancel culture Like we did that, for that happened, and what it does is divide us more and it doesn't make us an appealing group to want to join.

Speaker 3: 36:51

But it wasn't necessary. To a degree it did, cause I think it's an evolutionary thing where we're on the next step of what's next.

Speaker 2: 36:58

I can't always afford somebody's grace, though.

Speaker 3: 37:01

I'm sorry.

Speaker 2: 37:02

It's not required my lived experience. If you don't get it right and you know better, I don't have time to sit up and focus on your grace.

Speaker 3: 37:11

I can't afford it.

Speaker 2: 37:12

My livelihood cannot afford your grace.

Speaker 3: 37:14

I mean as a trans person too.

Speaker 1: 37:15

it can be dangerous as well, and the thing about this is like we may all be on the same team, but it doesn't have to be you two, specifically, that are affording somebody grits Like tap out.

Speaker 4: 37:24

You know what I mean. I have a lot of thoughts on this. First with as a white privileged gay man. Oh my God.

Speaker 4: 37:31

I was just going to say the reason why you didn't get the yeah, yeah, um, it went to me ryan. Yeah, no, but um, so like like um, first of all, your earlier question do you think that there is an underrepresentation of people who are not like white cis guys in the leftist space debate space? But absolutely, I completely agree. Um, I've. Actually I was talking to somebody who is like one of the bigger, like tiktok debater people about this, just kind of randomly, with like right into each other, and I was like hey, I know you're what.

Speaker 2: 38:05

What are they what?

Speaker 4: 38:06

yeah, yeah, okay and and I I told them I was like I'm an outsider to this and but like that can make me not educated on it. But it can also be helpful to have an outsider perspective and I've noticed that in the debate space there's this value on like, this kind of stone face, like you might smirk when you like, get in a good like attack on somebody, but like you can't be emotional. Being emotional is bad and then like, for example, in our night michael knoll's jubilee debate. One reason I decided to focus on trans issues is because I'm not trans and it makes it easier for me to fit those expectations. Because it's like, if we're talking about like, should we shoot ryan into outer space, who's going to be able to talk about that calmly?

Speaker 2: 38:46

me or ryan. Yeah right, can I? Can I tell you something about that? I'll be honest with you. I struggled with you in that episode about talking about trans issues, and I'm gonna explain why yeah it was so funny because at the end michael knows chose you because, ironically, I was in his top three to debate him one-on-one ui and, I think, somebody else yeah, I'd like to think it was me, but I don't think it was, his team went with with them and I was totally fine with it.

Speaker 2: 39:13

I felt like, when it came to trans issues, you had a trans woman there because and there was a black trans man there, and it's like with trans issues, it's important to hear the voices of trans people yes and I think in the past, what I've dealt with is people who are non-trans taking up space yes and grifting the trans issues.

Speaker 3: 39:31

However, I'm making money off of it.

Speaker 2: 39:34

I'm making money off of it. However, I do believe it's important that non-trans people do speak up on trans issues, because you will reach an audience that I can't, and if you're able to reach an audience that I can't reach, I can't be mad and upset with you about that?

Speaker 4: 39:49

yeah, well, analysis. Analysis is not justification. We're not justifying that that happens, we're just analyzing. You're being honest about it?

Speaker 3: 39:55

yeah, can I offer a solution just to because agree exactly, but I also agree with why. So the nuance for me, what I, as a trans person, would love to see, is like if you and anybody watching, if you're a cis person speaking on trans issues, maybe reference three other trans people to go watch and learn from or even one.

Speaker 3: 40:16

So if you've got a huge platform, you can then channel some of that energy to that Cause. If you're going to make some coin off of that trans person's words, you should tell us who the trans person is. That taught you, or send your audience to a trans person. Me, I have got an app as well. But like send us some coin as well. Like the, the idea that you're using our lived experience and then paying your rent.

Speaker 1: 40:43

That like it's that sucks yeah it's.

Speaker 2: 40:45

It's crazy when you know you and I are still working regular jobs and, you know, doing the best we can with what we got and I just want to make this very clear like what made me not struggle with you in the episode was how you did it and the things that you said, which was really, really, really important. I love you to death.

Speaker 4: 41:01

Like you are such a goddess, yeah you were cool as fuck on the 525. I'm also not trying to make money off of this, like very obvious, like I'm not farming this yeah because here's the thing On my Dr Phil debate, you gave me really good feedback, really good.

Speaker 2: 41:16

I was really good. I was scared, so we're all we're like in a group chat or whatever. I didn't do the peers morgan, I didn't ask for feedback with peers because I know that was going to be a shit show and I knew what the opinions were going to be. But with dr phil, you gave me some really good feedback and good tips and I would never forget and that's why I love people like you, because it's important like this is the the community of debaters that I've manifested and I'm so glad that all y'all are like a part of it and it's really, really important. Yeah, it's cool that we all like know each other and support each other.

Speaker 3: 41:42

You know, like that's fucking cool and that's why I wanted to have you guys on, because I wanted people to find out more about the two of you, so it's not just the Jubilee clip farms.

Speaker 1: 41:49

Oh, I love that.

Speaker 3: 41:54

Hey, you do this and like nobody knew that, you write fucking academic papers. Like you didn't get to show yourself so that's why even this podcast kind of formed was through some of the jubilee stuff that we did with alex yeah we brought them on and I've, you know, channeled any jubilee folks, especially on the left side, and I'll even interview some of you guys on the right, like are welcome to the couch, because I feel like jubilee does not get to really show you the fuck you guys are.

Speaker 1: 42:20

So who the fuck are you guys? There was somebody in the comments of a Jubilee video that said all these people are influencers who are making $100,000 a year. I was like we are. Where did that come from?

Speaker 3: 42:30

I can't even say the amount of money that I got paid on the Ben Shapiro thing because we signed a thing but that literally was a McDonald's meal.

Speaker 2: 42:39

You know what I mean Barely Living in the state of California, that's how much I made from fucking yelling at Ben Shapiro.

Speaker 1: 42:45

Yeah, a coconut burger.

Speaker 1: 42:47

Something that you were talking about earlier about. You know people need to hear from trans people. I think that goes back to what we were talking about earlier about you know the systems theory. Like it takes cool, cool, level-headed, articulate trans people. It takes trans people talking from their emotions. It takes people you identify with, so in some cases, white men talking from an academic, neutral place. It also takes white men who talk about it from an emotional space because they have an emotional resonance with.

Speaker 1: 43:13

So it takes all of the above and I think those of us who have more privilege and easier access to being seen, being heard, it is our job to we. You know, if you have a privilege, use it Like it's not going away, do good with it, but also use that as a yes and opportunity to pull in people who are less likely to get that attention and redirect that attention to them. Like you were saying, like I know several trans people who I think are incredible messengers, and I want to be. I want, of course, I want attention. I would love to be making a full-time living at this, but I also I want to be sure that I'm, like you were saying, redirecting people to other folks who have less privilege, more marginalization than I do, and also deserve to be. If they're good at good messengers, make good, making a living being messengers.

Speaker 2: 43:59

they deserve that and I just hope people step up because in in the past, um, when I talked about certain groups that are not my lived experience, they don't always step up and I hate to say it, it's been trans men like I. I've been layers, so hold on, hold on, hold on before you get there, because I know you're gonna touch it.

Speaker 2: 44:18

All right fight for my trans men, but here's the thing, though, like in my experience and you've known this about me over- the years, I've always let the door open for trans men somehow some way, Like I'm going to slide the door open for you, but that's all I can do. You bust through there. And in the past trans men have not stepped up in that way. And there's a lot of reasons which I know you're about to explain, like the why, because there has to be a why behind it yeah and sometimes it's a little frustrating when I do that just not with trans men, but with just any group of people.

Speaker 2: 44:47

Like I care so much about humanity in general and in my opinion a lot of the conservatives do not care about basic humanity because they would not have the talking points that they have. How is it so radical far left for me to want justice and equality for disproportionate groups? How is that such a far left issue that they claim it is? And one thing I noticed when I go on these debates they never can insult my intelligence. Every time you turn around they'll go to misgenerate me, like Michael knows did in the video. Blair White, stupid ass, will talk about my wigs, buck Angel will sit up there and talk about me, but guess what? I'm all on y'all's screens.

Speaker 1: 45:26

Well, people who want to hate are going to find something.

Speaker 2: 45:28

Yeah, but they're projecting their own insecurity and it's not them being booked. Yeah, everybody keeps saying, oh, why do they keep platforming Blossom? They keep platforming me because I have a good rebuttal. They keep platforming me because I speak truth to power, whether you want to hear it or not.

Speaker 1: 45:42

You have the skill and talent that makes it watchable, and watchable is what they're looking for. Yes, yeah.

Speaker 4: 45:47

Can I ask you guys about Blair White? Sure, I don't. So what? How does Right on here? I know that Blair White is a trans conservative. How does that work? Like what? I know that Blair White is a trans conservative. How does that work. What are Blair White's?

Speaker 2: 46:03

positions about gender affirming. This is becoming a Blair White episode.

Speaker 4: 46:06

You know, she's going to run.

Speaker 2: 46:08

I have an opinion, hey girl, if you're going to clip farm this, just say here's the thing Blair White, she's half white and she's half Mexican, but she uses white supremacy to really grip her audience doesn't even acknowledge the mexican part, and this is something that I've called her out on. Well, no, she does. When she gets back to do a corner, yeah, when, when she feels like she, she can do that and she's technically a person of color.

Speaker 3: 46:31

But the thing about technically- you know she is a person of color. But the thing about blair and my presenting, yeah, opinion.

Speaker 2: 46:38

I call her white adjacent. White adjacent, yeah, and the thing is, though, I feel that she and Buck Angel are the rejects of the trans community, and they followed other trans conservatives who agree with them or whatnot, feel like outcasts, and so I understand that, but to me, I just see them trying to grift to these issues and say certain trigger points or trigger words that will bring their audience to them to support them, and then anybody who tries to have a difference of opinion than them they'll send to attack. But the reality of it is in a Trump administration. It's affecting you too, buck Angel. It's affecting you too, blair White. You too cannot get your passport with the gender marker that you desire. You, too, could be harassed going into the women's or men's bathroom. All these trans conservatives who are just like, oh, amala is great and Buck Angel is great and all the things, or whatever, like they're spewing nothing, and the thing is, intellect shows what, by you supporting them, all they do is bully people. All they do is project.

Speaker 1: 47:48

They will sit up there and try to criticize you, but, truth be told, they're not getting platform well, and you know that just because, um, you are, uh, you have confidence and fortitude and are articulate and are charismatic, and a trans person Doesn't mean you still. That doesn't mean you don't necessarily live on earth too, like they could still have a genuinely out of out of like an inaccurate relationship with reality, and genuinely believe it's true.

Speaker 2: 48:15

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 48:16

And I think that's the case with some of you. Well, hold on hold on.

Speaker 3: 48:19

I got to do the trans man thing.

Speaker 2: 48:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm sorry, sorry, sorry. Let me make sure to clear that up, because I'm not.

Speaker 3: 48:26

The why.

Speaker 3: 48:26

As a trans man they'll be like Shane, you let that slide. Okay, so Now put you no, I'm not going to let this slide the hierarchy in the situation. That is interesting, and if I still don't form it right, because I know Lathe Ashley said some things, but hopefully, as we've evolved, we can hear this conversation. So trans men do deal with the socialization of being female. Majority of us do have this, what I call being told to sit down, be quiet. You know it's the same way that women are treated and were taught that as a child, right? So the combination of that with, again, men's mental health and all of the fun navigation that is, that's where you see trans men not truly being able to show up Because, just like, if you think about, women make 77 cents to the dollar right so you now?

Speaker 3: 49:23

and also, if you know, in the lesbian community it's usually the femme has the job, the butchers doesn't have the job. You know, yes, in the lesbian listen, see girl, you ain't a part of the lesbians. I was once one allegedly um girl, I did not know that.

Speaker 2: 49:39

actually I didn't either.

Speaker 3: 49:40

That's where the allegedly no I mean because economically and I definitely experience this is like being butch, presenting and trying to get a job and then having especially pre-transition with the name that I once had. When I walked into the interview they were like what in the fuck is happening? So they wouldn't hire me, right? So there's a lot of masks that deal with that situation. So now you've got, now imagine that person transitions, right? So now you think of it in terms of like a financial totem pole. So now you just keep getting lower and lower and lower in terms of financial access economically.

Speaker 3: 50:15

So you have to think again if women are being affected to the you know, 77 cents to the dollar. That percentage keeps getting knocked down as you add on more intersectionalities and that's why, when you see black trans men specifically, with no representation, it's also the economic impact behind it, because how are they going to be able to fund, to get a camera, to get on fucking? You know what I mean? They're dealing with just surviving, so they can't even have time to find a voice when they're just trying to keep a roof over their head. So those are the layers of privilege that happen. So even in my space as a trans person, yes, but I also have the privilege, like technically I brought you on, so you're, I'm the most.

Speaker 3: 50:56

In case you didn't know, you're white but at the same time here's another reverse. I was born and raised in scientology and escaped as a child at 16, way underprivileged than all of you, okay so like and I'm trans.

Speaker 3: 51:08

So, like the late, like you said, how that thing fluctuates is like, wait what? Like we're? You know, and I have to be aware of that, most folks are not aware of that and willing to be aware of that, but that's why trans men like, if you look at women's rights and go, oh, that's a shit show. Unfortunately, trans men are men, yes, but the way the society still treats us gives us access economically, etc. Etc. We're treated like bitch butch, bitch butch women that are no sexual value to the male gaze, so there's no need for investment. And only recently, gay men have turned on trans men and fetishized us, and you know what I mean. Like, but that's through porn, et cetera, et cetera. But like, even in those spaces, there's such a power imbalance that's still going on.

Speaker 3: 51:55

Because name a trans man, that was a big, that was a long one. Name a trans man that you know that has over a million dollars. I here's the crazy thing. I'm not like rich, okay, let's be real. But I'm okay, I'm all right. I got some bills, you know what I mean. I have some bills on auto pay. Okay, like in this economy, damn, but um, but you have to realize you're buying eggs. I oh, I got I have a costco business executive membership okay

Speaker 3: 52:27

yes, cash back, um, but again, I'm in terms of my privilege, if we're going to look at society as a whole, not me as a trans person, just me as a white guy, not really up there, but me as a trans person, I'm up there. But if I'm still struggling, you know, still and like, oh shit, maybe I can't make rent this month Cause I got to do this gig or that gig, where the fuck are my brothers at, you know? And I've barely, at 35, been able to cultivate enough money to be able to get this, and it took years and years. And here's the thing. I'm not going to sit here and be like I'm a self-made man, cause that's so bullshit.

Speaker 3: 53:03

Nobody is self there's literally a village of people that helped me and that that literally just invested and was like here, I love you and here's some money, here's this, here, even solomon right now, how he's amazingly doing the things that he does for us, solomon here, letting us you know use he runs space and running the shit the way that he does. It's like it's that ebb and flow and understanding that level and like how you can show up in those spaces.

Speaker 4: 53:30

But that's why trans men unfortunately don't have much girl, because, like women one thing I want to point out is the way that we're talking about privilege in this conversation is not this sort of like? We're not doing this sort of like accusatory thing, right?

Speaker 4: 53:46

because like like, nope, nobody's not oppression, no, nobody's a winner in the oppression olympics, right we're doing we're doing this I mean scientology, I don't know I might have won, but but like we're doing, we're doing this in terms of empathy, and that is one thing that I find interesting when we're talking about privilege is, a lot of times I think people find it very threatening to recontextualize themselves as privileged, because I think that people kind of have a sense of self-worth calibrated to what they think that they've gone through yes and if you tell me like, well, maybe it's been easier for me than I thought that might diminish my accomplishments and diminish my you know my sense of of self and but I really appreciate here and where I think this is a very great way to approach this is like I'm learning.

Speaker 4: 54:30

Yeah, I'm learning, like I'm learning about you and what you went through right, yeah, it's like I'm not.

Speaker 4: 54:36

I'm confident enough in myself and I'm self-assured enough to where it's not threatening to me to learn more about what trans men experience, even if learning how trans men are, you know, go through things, is sort of adding more clarity to my sense of how well I've really haven't had to deal with any of that. Right like my, my sense of um, my sense of self is still intact and I think this is the, this is the good, this is the way to approach this. Thank you, because that's literally what.

Speaker 3: 55:08

I've tried to do with this podcast and most people have not seen the vision, but I'm hoping that more people understand why I'm creating these episodes. Because, yes, they're sensational and yes, we talk shit and we do kikis and all that stuff, but that's also to get the views and because it's about the educational. Like every episode, if you watch it in full, you learn something and hopefully walk away from it. Even, like I said, that drip theory I'm like, even if I don't fully change you today, if I offer you a few drips of knowledge, maybe it can change your view on especially trans people. Like we are not a monolith, we have so many different people and, like you said, I really hoped that you would get the try out.

Speaker 3: 55:47

The city of west hollywood, actually um, I don't know, but I'm just saying they have lots of grants, like I literally um, like I've been a commissioner and blossom yeah are you in the city? Yeah, like we actually don't live in West Hollywood.

Speaker 1: 56:00

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, if it's a project for trans people like there.

Speaker 2: 56:04

We'll talk off camera, but like yeah.

Speaker 3: 56:06

Blossom and I are actually politicians too. Like I actually advised the mayor for Los, she served as a board member for tab, which I'm no longer on, by the way, oh my gosh girl.

Speaker 3: 56:20

We're going to talk about that in the next episode. But like that's the other thing too is like blossom and I, we may talk our shit, but we're also out doing the work. So like we have to also find people that are legitimately like. It's not just, hey, I can say this and pay me a bunch of money because I'm articulate. It's like what are you doing with that energy? Like, how are you channeling? And I love that you actually want to send some of your because I was like Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1: 56:44

When I started following you on Instagram, I was like damn, ryan, okay people misunderstand how, how, like that is not a financial like, like no, I know, but I was like, oh shit, he's gotta follow me no, you know, unfortunately I have. I have good metrics. That never changes. I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm, it's called being unproblematic.

Speaker 3: 56:59

I have the same thing. So if you're, like, not racist, I'm making this a rumor, even if it's not true, your skin doesn't crack, so like, even if it's not true, I'm just going to start telling white people stop being racist and you won't age bad.

Speaker 1: 57:10

Well, you know, I had to turn to monetizing my social media, my online presence, because the zone got flooded in politics with people who have my experience and skill set, like I got really far really fast in politics because I didn't need to get paid doing it. And then I got to a point where it made sense for me to get paid doing it, like I was an advisor to the Biden campaign in 2020.

Speaker 3: 57:32

Yeah, I know, I was reading about you. I was like holy fucking shit. This is why I love being around Ronnie. No, that's why I wanted to bring you on. Like, tell me I love being around Ronnie.

Speaker 1: 57:39

But here's the thing, though Like it changes when you want to get paid, how people choose.

Speaker 2: 57:43

Oh, I know.

Speaker 1: 57:44

But when Kamala lost and when we lost Congress, and so there were 4,000 political appointees that were flooding the zone anyway. And then all these staffers, like they're bajillion, so like my only real and my, my corporate resume is covered with dei stuff. So like I am not hireable in this environment, so like I need to go to. You know social media, but you can rename it to something else.

Speaker 3: 58:05

Just so you know what I used to do resumes. You can rename it to something else.

Speaker 1: 58:08

We can oh yeah, I know, but um, I also. I also used to be a career coach and I also know it sucks oh yeah.

Speaker 3: 58:13

No, I mean, you're kind of screwed with some of those keywords.

Speaker 1: 58:15

Yeah, yeah, I might want to hear about your keywords, but one thing I will say about the privilege that I have is that, like something that most people don't realize is that white men and white women, but in particular white men, commiserate with each other about the world around them in a way that nobody else sees, because it's only when the white men are in the room and I get to hear those conversations because I pass through.

Speaker 3: 58:37

Oh, you do too. No, no, no are in the room and I get to hear those conversations because I pass it too well, I've been in a secret club.

Speaker 2: 58:42

I know what you're talking about you and I I got a box.

Speaker 1: 58:44

I know what you're saying you and I are heteronormative passive. Oh yeah, and so, like we hear things, that nobody else hears.

Speaker 4: 58:49

Actually, you wouldn't believe. I've noticed that when someone's homophobic, they don't realize I'm gay. Yes, like I'm wearing this, this is this is my I got. I was in te, texas. What the fuck do you think? They say to me yeah, yeah, I was in Texas, in Louisiana, earlier. That's where I got this shirt, because my friend was like oh yeah, like my dad would like it. It says ATM, which I think of as ATM machine. Wait, you didn't know that that was Texas.

Speaker 3: 59:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 59:11

Can I say this though yeah. In your episode with 30 and I noticed this right away when you talked about your husband.

Speaker 4: 59:21

A few folks on your side of the aisle were kind of looking like and in my head I was like, oh shit, there's a layer of homophobia there's a layer of transphobia there too well yeah, that's the thing because it's like the reason, like first I I agree when I've had the experience that you guys have had, where when someone assumes that you are also like the straight white guy, they're just just like oh, you're one of us, I can take my mask off and they just say the most insane stuff to you and yeah, like I.

Speaker 4: 59:45

But no, yeah, definitely. I mean I think that I remember one time JD Vance said that he thought that Trump got the normal gay guy. Yeah, no.

Speaker 4: 59:53

And that's a very telling statement, a very telling phrase, because yeah they again what I, what I think I've been listening to this, uh, audiobook by an author named jason stanley called how fascism works, and um, it's really, it's like, it's like five or six hours, it's really good listen, um and um, he talks about hierarchies a lot and how conservatives really like hierarchies and just like categorizing people, like like it's like a tier list for people, right, and it also the conservative political movement likes that.

Speaker 4: 1:00:20

Because how do you justify inequality if not categorizing people as intrinsically more, intrinsically less, intrinsically more worthy, intrinsically less worthy? So they start out with things like men can only be this, women can only be this, and then you can expand it out to race, you can expand it out to income, you can expand it out to all these things and out to income, um, you can expand it out to all these things, and so you can kind of create this justification. And so I think that there are a lot of people who are for, for whatever reason and I'm not saying that like the average, like conservative guy walking around is thinking about like how do I like justify billionaires?

Speaker 4: 1:00:55

but like they do have this kind of alignment towards these hierarchies and so then when, when they see like somebody who is ryan, you're trying to get my security deposit yeah, so so when they I think, the more. The more that you challenge the way they want to put people into buckets, the less they like you and so that is why.

Speaker 4: 1:01:18

I think you will hear, like when I'm like the reason why there's that homophobia, the reason why there's that homophobia in that video in the conservative versus progressive Jubilee middle ground that me and Ryan were in, and and Shane was yeah, yeah and um, yeah, I was there. Yeah, Shane was, you were on set for some reason. Why was that? And, yeah, but like.

Speaker 3: 1:01:41

Because I was a tokenized trans person.

Speaker 4: 1:01:43

You were holding the boom light Because being gay is me messing with the boundaries of the bucket that they put men in and now and that and they and that's they're traditional. They say we want to be in this bucket and we don't like you being out of the bucket. And now think about like a black, trans woman, think about all of the ways that you just completely color outside of their lines.

Speaker 1: 1:02:09

Yes, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4: 1:02:10

And so that is where I think that you get that reaction and you'll see it with the homophobia. They're just kind of like you know I was.

Speaker 2: 1:02:19

I was as someone who was not in the episode and just looking as a viewer. I was kind of shocked by that. But in my head I had to remember even in our michael noves episode there were gay folks, there were straight folks. Although a lot of us were in alignment with each other, there are still these layers of just like homophobia, transphobia, that sometimes the viewer can just forget, especially when it's just liberal versus conservative in those conversations. And I was just really surprised to see that because I saw a lot of the progressive men making like these faces.

Speaker 4: 1:02:49

When you said that and that's what shocked me. What's interesting is that all of the progressive men were very nice to to me off camera, and except there's one guy that hated. I won't say his name, but there's one guy that hated me and brian and and I think I've heard y'all talk about yeah, yeah, but like otherwise who's the cheese man, okay, so wait, wait.

Speaker 3: 1:03:14

You don't have to say his name, but I won't say his name, okay where did he sit?

Speaker 4: 1:03:17

he was in front of me and the guy next to me, evan, and so basically here's what happened. Wait, was he baseball cap? He was like a bigger guy he had drove in from Vegas. Do you guys want to hear this? This is a completely off topic, just like funny gossip.

Speaker 3: 1:03:33

Go ahead, so you have to be messy a little bit, okay, so we need that little clip, so I have.

Speaker 4: 1:03:38

I have pieced this together over since this happened. I've thought about actually had a realization about this the other day, so so basically, we're on set for this video, surrounded xl, you know, like 25, like like wokies versus trad men, right and like, or however they titled, and like we're there for like 10 or 11 hours. That was a long time, and yeah, and so we're in the first like half of it we're all in chairs, and then there's two people in like a little circle talking, and then for the most part we're all in the chairs while people are talking, and me and this guy next to me started doing this like back of the classroom yeah, I thought it was funny, you know you know, like, like, like you remember, like in math class in high school, there's just two kids in the back who just do not care yeah, so

Speaker 4: 1:04:28

yeah so I was, so I was doing that with this guy next to me and then they kept going, yeah. And then there's this person in front who turned in front of me and the guy next to me who just turned. I was like hey guys, like would you mind? I really can't focus on what they're saying. And here's the thing I have very bad adhd. I've been like studied. By the way, I was in an adhd study where they tested like a treatment on me and they, they did I, I got tested, baby, I'm, I'm, I have super that is so you to have that yeah, I have verified adhd.

Speaker 3: 1:04:57

You know rfk is coming for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but so so like I, I cannot.

Speaker 4: 1:05:03

I cannot tune anything out, right. So I have been like at a concert and someone's chattering behind me if you're chattering 30 feet away from me, it might as well be literally into my ear and so I have experienced just stress like just like, literally like the stress hormone of like I'm trying to listen to like someone sing and you're talking. So I'm like, oh my god, I'm being the guy who does the thing that makes my blood boil, and so I felt really genuinely bad. I was like, oh my god, I'm so sorry, but also I'm very forgetful, and so I do my best doing it, so I do yeah so I stop, yeah, yeah, so I stopped.

Speaker 4: 1:05:38

So I stopped for, like, maybe, like I I managed to stop, it was like 10 minutes and then all of a sudden, you guys started yeah, yeah so I, I, yeah, so I I stopped talking for like 10 minutes and I just I completely forgot, and then the person in the center would be like I don't think women have brains, and just be like it was yeah yeah, and then, and then, and then, and then, and so I'd start to do it again.

Speaker 4: 1:05:59

And then the guy would kind of turn around again like, hey, I was like, oh, my god, I'm so sorry. Yes, my bad. And then I started like writing in my notebook to like pass notes, yeah, because I was trying. And then people would someone to see. They'd be like, oh, I agree. And then the guy would be like and so I kept. I, this poor guy sitting in front of us, just wanted to pay attention and I wouldn't shut up Like I'm the villain in this right.

Speaker 4: 1:06:20

But here's the thing, here's where I think I stopped being the villain. We had a break in between part one and two and I went up to him I said, hey, I'm so sorry, I feel like such a jerk. I explained you know, I am the guy who has my blood boil when people are talking. I don't know why I kept doing that. I feel horrible that I've messed up with your experience and you know, hey, I am. You know, I I want to make sure you have a good time here. Um, during the second part, I want to help get you the microphone because you haven't talked yet and and we had this conversation, I asked him where he's from, like is this your first video? And I thought we patched it up. And then, in the second part, in part two there was like three or four times, including, by the way, one time that made it to the final shoot there's a shot where you can see me. You can very clearly lip read me where I'm like you want to go do you?

Speaker 4: 1:07:16

want the mic. You see, there's video evidence and I'm trying to get in the thing and then it's all fine, right, and then the video comes out like a month later and he leaves us a long comment on the video, like I was in the video. It was the worst thing ever, everyone on my side was horrible, or said half of the people horrible. It's like in particular, ryan and greg were insufferable. And then he made like a video.

Speaker 3: 1:07:40

I love that. That's why we cast you, just because of that one comment and then he made this entire episode and then he made a video on his channel.

Speaker 4: 1:07:48

Like my experience was so horrible let's watch it now, yeah, yeah, yeah and then then part two comes out and he writes the same comment, but he deleted greg from part two so maybe I don't, I didn't pay more attention.

Speaker 4: 1:08:00

Yeah, but I didn't. I was just like, I was like dude, like, like, like I I admit again I was the villain, I was taught, but like I really I really honestly and like profusely apologized and like I thought I made it up to you. But yeah, and then what I realized the other day and this is this is where I'm getting a little messy is he? He's a deal he's on grinder.

Speaker 3: 1:08:22

He's only 15 feet away at the.

Speaker 4: 1:08:24

He said something. He said something in like the replies to his comment, like like I'm not like a progressive anymore because of this or whatever. Like he said, explain to that extent. And I realized why did he want to listen so bad? Why did he have such a desire to listen to people hash out like should women be able to drive? I think he was an undecided voter. Yeah, I think he was like. Well, I don't know.

Speaker 3: 1:08:49

Like that one dude that was supporting fucking Elon, that was on our side. I was like bro, what the fuck?

Speaker 4: 1:08:56

This guy shows up to this thing. He, he, he's not sure Like one person's, like I don't.

Speaker 3: 1:09:01

To be fair, Jubilee does that intentionally Like? Let's be real, it's. There is a level of casting that I feel like is on, because I don't know how many times I'm now on set and I turned to somebody and like, oh, this is my first time debating. I've never done this before. I don't even know what I'm doing.

Speaker 1: 1:09:22

I don't even know what I'm doing, I don't even know what the subject is, and I'm like so we're shooting fish in a barrel, like what the fuck?

Speaker 4: 1:09:24

I have comments, but I want to talk about this guy. Yeah, and my, my, my theory of jubilee. I've people I heard have called you. People have called jubilee like it's like a psyop. I I found videos. I don't want to like send people to go like dig into the guy and like docs him.

Speaker 4: 1:09:35

It's like I'm not going to like go through the detail but I, just for my personal wanting to check, I kind of dug into the ceo a bit and I found some of his like old, like social media stuff, because now, because he's the ceo, he's kind of cagey, but like well, like you know, like I, like we're here to represent both sides. I found old stuff from him and he is, in my opinion, very clearly like one, like very liberal and two, you can find stuff from him like 10 or 12 years ago where he's saying the exact same thing joe rogan was very liberal at one point, and here's what I'll tell you.

Speaker 3: 1:10:09

When I looked up the fact checking company that does the little, fact checks, that's only yes, that is owned by a conservative and funded by a conservative and there's a lot of stuff that also comes from PragerU. Most of the people on the red side are from PragerU that have already had a lot of experience.

Speaker 1: 1:10:25

A lot of DIY funding people.

Speaker 3: 1:10:27

Yeah. So there's a layer to it that like, because I know this, because I produce this, so I know what it takes to get somebody to show up and create a vibe right. So I'm looking at it in terms of a producer and I'm going no, no, no, no, no, I smell something.

Speaker 3: 1:10:40

Yeah that's what but I still participate because of like what you said, and what you said is that reach to Jesus sorry Solomon to the broader audiences, because now I've reached a different set of folks that again the liberal side has known about my existence. I've been doing the work for a long time but no one gave me a shot. Unfortunately, conservative side did, and now people are going oh shit, he has skills. But that also comes back to why trans men always get a race, because I'm still treated as a woman who doesn't know shit and with the beard they're like sit down, shut the fuck up well, ben shapiro, ben shapiro.

Speaker 4: 1:11:15

Hey bro, well bro and out bro.

Speaker 3: 1:11:18

And then to that whole. The best part about that is A. I know I'm like in his nightmares Forever because he can't look at another Cis man and be like does he have a vagina? He cannot look, I guarantee you. He looks at like the most burliest man and be like is there a vagina?

Speaker 4: 1:11:32

there he was like a kid being yelled at by his dad. That was the best clip, so I'm You're like physically bigger than him too.

Speaker 3: 1:11:40

Okay, you remember, dan, from fucking rosanne no, uh, yeah, john goodman. Oh yeah, I want you to know. I embodied him with a sweater and everything that's great that's why I was giving him like the 90s. Yeah, sit at the table like son.

Speaker 4: 1:11:54

You're doing wrong like and he, just right before I get too far, because ryan was also like, yeah, I like, yeah, I think that I think I definitely and I'm sure Jubilee could guess this right. They've heard it enough from people from our side, like I don't agree with how Jubilee does a lot of things. Yeah, the only thing is I don't think it's like malicious, but I get why people you know, I mean, but you're going to say about the guy on our side.

Speaker 1: 1:12:18

Oh well, yeah, cause I want to talk about. I want to comment on what you guys are talking about now, but I also want to talk about that guy. Like I think you know people who are not as naturally inclined to have the fortitude to speak up to, you know, lead sometimes they get yeah, I'm a more introverted person, that's me and. But others blame other, blame the people in the front for that, blame the leaders for that. Like they hold, they don't hold themselves responsible for developing the skill of taking the mic. They hold the people who have the mic responsible for not giving it to them, and so that's why I felt like he was unfair to us in that way.

Speaker 1: 1:12:50

But also, you know, there was a guy on the conservative side that was really I felt bad because he was like you must be Ryan, cause he'd seen me in other videos and I didn't have time to stop and talk to him and I felt really bad about that. I could not tell you I feel really bad about this. But the guy who was hating on us in the comments I don't remember what he looks like, but I do remember what the guy who I felt bad Cause I didn't stop to talk to him for very long.

Speaker 1: 1:13:16

It looks like for being who I am, but you know, my, my, my, the entire purpose I loved how you ran it like oh and the purpose of that was to make sure everybody who wanted to speak got to speak, and it's not as if he he did not put himself forward and get in the line of people who wanted to. I love the way.

Speaker 3: 1:13:31

It's. So much so that, like I, as a trans person, was just listening to you guys and I sat down because I felt like our side first of all felt like a baseball team. It was like, all right, guys, go, let's break. Yeah, and I love that you took that role and we didn't have a toxic thing like over there. They were fighting and circle jerking.

Speaker 4: 1:13:47

You told us to stop doing I loved it well and everything. He, ryan, was like guys like stop snickering. He told us like stop laughing at that. That was one of the things that I was like what like Ryan was doing that?

Speaker 3: 1:13:57

no, I appreciated that you stood up and led that moment I felt like to be honest, as a trans guy I felt very accepted, very safe and even I was listening to what you guys said and I was like I was only gonna jump in because I was like if something wrong was said. But even Oliver the young kid, the way oh yeah, he's got to slow down on the caffeine a little bit. Yeah, slow it down a little bit. But he had so many valid points and I think coming from a young kid was kind of cool to see oliver's great I.

Speaker 4: 1:14:22

I did not know who oliver was and I saw him talking up there, but I kind of by it. So they gave us free celsius energy drinks and sometimes people hit the celsius I did not have one, yeah yeah, yeah, um, but no, yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:14:35

So, oliver, like I, I'm not like I in in the sense of describing things I have done. You could say technically I am a debater and that I have debated. I would not describe myself as that. The same way I don't describe myself as like a chef, because I made dinner last night like, but all of her is like, all of her is like not to like a, like a debater. He's this young kid who was in our episode and like.

Speaker 1: 1:14:55

Is he the one who says he does six hours of debating a day with different people on his channel? I think that's somebody else.

Speaker 4: 1:15:00

But but so yeah, and like he, he just went and went and went and like I kind of engineered all of her, I was like, oh, oliver knows what he's doing. So the second time he went I was like same, we were all supporting like yeah, okay, I think he's actually like it.

Speaker 3: 1:15:13

The other side, I felt like they were like I'm gonna be the guy I'm gonna be the guy. We were all kind of like looking at each other and going, okay, who's right?

Speaker 4: 1:15:19

right, it's actually gonna fucking bat this right and yeah and the thing to your point, like, right, like, like, I believe in a very specific type of personal responsibility which is like because there's, there's the people who say, and I, there's people who say like, kind of, you know, woe is me, like the world has just kind of ruined my life, there's nothing I can do. Then there's the people who are like everything's your fault, and I don't think it's either. Here's what I think. I think we can say Things are very unfair and we should acknowledge that and we should try to make it better and we should believe in our ability to overcome unfair things. And 50 people aren't going to get to talk and some people aren't going to, like, try to help, like, yeah, you could.

Speaker 3: 1:16:17

You could acknowledge, ok, that there there are things to be upset about, right, but also you need to believe in your ability to do grab the fucking mic like and I think, I think honestly, you guys as trans I waited for my moment to grab the mic too like and I was very specific why I grabbed the mic because my thing was I wanted to show the hypocrisy of what the fuck the right side was saying and be like um sounding very also you're, you're, you guys.

Speaker 4: 1:16:44

You guys are both trans. You know what I'm talking about allegedly you, allegedly I'm an ally actually I support the community you, you guys have have, and I'm saying guys in the gender neutral sense- damn it.

Speaker 2: 1:16:56

Cancel him y'all. I'm not a friend. Yeah, yeah, you guys are like I am.

Speaker 4: 1:17:01

Send me a venmo the world has given you guys such an unfair hand, and you acknowledge that and you push to make it better and you believe in your ability to do this thing that is so unfairly difficult, which is to live a life that is not worth living, and and so it's, that's just a thing that you have to. You have to be able to kind of walk and chew gum, you know what?

Speaker 1: 1:17:32

I mean, and it's like I'm sorry.

Speaker 4: 1:17:34

And so, yeah, I think that I think that there is a guy I work right. My first I dropped out of college right after I my first time in college. I dropped out almost immediately and I went back ballgreens and I had this friend who was also, like you know, not really doing anything, and every time there would be somebody was he a white man? No, I'm just kidding. Yeah, sorry, every every time. Every time there was somebody who was better than him at something, he would find a way to describe them white men negatively maybe like, like, like there is a girl, there is this girl at her high school who was very social.

Speaker 4: 1:18:07

See, she is so fake. There was somebody who went to Stanford.

Speaker 3: 1:18:12

Oh, he's an overachiever.

Speaker 4: 1:18:14

It's like, instead of telling yourself stories about other people, believe in your ability to learn from them. You guys mentioned Oliver, this debater, who's really good. I went up and I was like how do you do that? How do you think so quickly? I'm amazed by that and I admire that, and I can't do that.

Speaker 3: 1:18:34

How do you do that? And I like that. We all recognize that he was batting the way that he was. We we didn't go like my dick's gotta be on the table because I need attention. We were like no, we want to actually genuinely strategically win this, so let's put the best batter up yeah, well, I don't want to even think of that picture. By the way, you have to wrap soon and I do want to give you your moment for your thing ryan, you get to close this out.

Speaker 1: 1:18:57

Here's all the attention.

Speaker 3: 1:18:58

Well, you have the biggest following.

Speaker 1: 1:18:59

So here you go, ryan well, there are two quick things I'll say. The first is we are all dealt.

Speaker 1: 1:19:03

The cards were dealt and we can both um acknowledge that the suffering sucks and work on that and, you know, cope with our feelings about it and all that stuff, and also take responsibility, for it's my job to work with what I got. And that guy that was hating on us only did one of those things and I hate that for him. I wish he would see it as a growth opportunity. But the other thing I'll say is I hosted a couple of episodes of Jubilee shows that are coming up and congratulations, thank you. And something I've learned, oh, yay. Something I've learned from politics that I also observed in Jubilee is that 95% of the time when somebody thinks there's something malicious going on, there isn't. It's just that the system isn't great.

Speaker 1: 1:19:48

It's you know, most people don't have malicious intent. It's just that they're flawed beings trying to make things work in a flawed system. And I think and what I do know specifically about Jubilee is that they have a very hard time, and I think this goes back to what we were talking about earlier.

Speaker 4: 1:20:03

They have a harder time finding like qualified liberals to come on than conservatives, and that comes right back to on the liberal side, we don't, because no one's funding them, no one's mentoring, no one's creating that farm to to have that not only that there are people who who like um, no one I know personally, no one I've met from, but like I saw this, this, this woman I don't know her name, she's like bizarrely good looking to where it's like she's like an ai like. I don't know her name, she's like bizarrely good looking to where it's like she's like an ai, like I don't know that she's a real person. I've ever has anyone seen her in person black lady.

Speaker 1: 1:20:37

Yeah, dasha carter yeah, yeah, yeah, with the blue eyes, yeah, she is beautiful she is so pretty, it scares me she criticized.

Speaker 3: 1:20:45

I didn't think she was real for the first. Yeah, yeah, but I saw this.

Speaker 4: 1:20:49

I saw this video because I don't really watch tiktoks, but I I post on tiktok now on greg from video one, and so when I open we're also going to be going live soon. Yeah, yeah, I opened the app and it plays one for me and it played one of her and she was like telling people to stop going on to jubilee and here's my thing where it's like the videos are being made.

Speaker 4: 1:21:07

We're in. We are in los angeles county. I'm gonna talk to the camera and do what you do. We're in los angeles county. There are over 10 million people here. A lot of people have moved here to be in the entertainment business and there's a youtube channel with 10 million subscribers that is trying to get people on to be on camera, and I have been.

Speaker 4: 1:21:26

I was in the mr beast beast games and that's how I found out about jubilee, because someone there was like you should go on jubilee, and no hate to anyone from our beast games family. There are people there who literally weren't on camera, literally were not on camera, not even in the background. You can't even where's waddle them. They're not there. And almost a year later, they're still trying, like every day, to convert that into a career in traditional or new media.

Speaker 4: 1:21:49

And so if you, that is how desperate people are, because it's so hard I'm not even looking down on them. It's so hard to break through. It's so hard to break through and so they can meet. Yeah, they are. Jubilee is not going to run out of people to go on Jubilee videos. And so if everybody who is either thoughtful enough and or tuned in to the discourse enough to realize, hey, you know, like there are some things about these videos that you know might not be great from our perspective and again, jubilee is very aware of that perspective the people who are going to be left to go on the Jubilee videos are going to be people who don't know what they're doing and like, for example, that's what I worry about.

Speaker 4: 1:22:35

Here is why I went on Jubilee. Ultimately, I applied again. I applied because someone told me it was be fun. They asked me to do the Knowles one and they sent me a surrounded, which was I believe it was the Ben Shapiro surrounded, and I watched the first two minutes of it and I had to turn it off because there was this guy and I'm sure he's a wonderful guy, but he was the flower hat guy. Oh yeah, flower hat guy. I have talked about flower hat guy in our and here's what flower hat guy does. He says I'd like to start with a land acknowledgement. My friend made my hat. And then he just sits there for three minutes and just lets the other guy talk and I'm like, oh my god, I don't know how to do this, but I know that I know how to do this better than that guy knows well and that just.

Speaker 3: 1:23:18

I think that's why I got so angry on set, because there are people that are like ben hi, I'm a fan, I'm like. What the fuck are you saying?

Speaker 1: 1:23:24

I know you heard that too. I was like what the what the fuck? That's why I flipped the chair around.

Speaker 4: 1:23:31

In terms of reality, we can talk about in terms of our ideology and our echo chamber and our circular firing squad and our purity test. But in terms of reality, if you think you would be better at this than like the median person and you go on to the Jubilee video and you advocate for things that are good and against things that are bad, you're improving the outcome, as opposed to the alternate situation where everybody who is in any way better than average, even a little bit, boycotts it.

Speaker 1: 1:23:59

Well, I think something we now know for sure is that trying to disappear something you disapprove of doesn't work. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:24:05

Like we try, we talk about, uh, deplatforming problematic people, but they represent voices that already exist and I think we have to confront them where those people can see yes, and I think, and the same is true for, like, going on the show, like a format that's um, or a producer or a host that's problematic, those shows will continue to be made and it and no, there is absolutely no um positive impact on society by saying that person's problematic, I'm not going to be on there.

Speaker 4: 1:24:29

yeah, that doesn't change anything. You don't have to. The last thing I'll say on this We've got to wind it down.

Speaker 2: 1:24:35

I've got the final thoughts today.

Speaker 4: 1:24:39

When I say and people I've talked to.

Speaker 3: 1:24:40

We can definitely bring you guys back, thank you.

Speaker 4: 1:24:47

If we want to go on, you don't have to be at the grocery store and someone has a MAGA hat and like. Engage them in compassionate dialogue, right. A way that you can be politically effective is just get 40 people who are on the fence and didn't vote to vote. That will take the same amount of effort as converting one dyed in the wool bigot yeah Right, in the wool bigot, yeah, right. So it's not like in your personal life, like we have to all just like, be tolerant of, and like and interact with and and and you know, like, like suffer a bunch of fools, right, but in if there is a thing being made that, like, hundreds of thousands of conservatives are gonna watch yeah, you know what I mean and that's where it's like.

Speaker 4: 1:25:26

It's like I'm, I'm not. I don't think you, I don't think any of us are saying that like in your personal life. You need to just like put up with bigotry as a political strategy in a media space. It's a specific and different thing.

Speaker 1: 1:25:38

Well, and I think you know when you think about and that's my last thing, but I think about a military fighting a war. There are so many different specialists. You know people, snipers, you know like and so like there will be a mercenary.

Speaker 3: 1:25:49

You need a sniper, you need somebody that does the radio, you need somebody that does the. We got to think about our movement like that.

Speaker 1: 1:25:54

And that and that gets all the way granular down to um, a trans woman who does feel comfortable with a white man talking about their issues and a trans woman who doesn't. It gets all these little component parts matter, and if you're not comfortable with you know, tolerating that. But another chance one is that those are two different specialists that each have their opportunity to make difference in their way. We don't all have to be experts at everything. The other thing we need to do is rotate each other out, like we need to be able to tap out and give everybody their R and R. Like, if we all do our part and also give each other and ourselves grace to actually do it in a sustainable long form way and support each other too.

Speaker 3: 1:26:30

Yes, not make this a pissing contest where.

Speaker 1: 1:26:31

I have to be on top, yes, I love to take breaks.

Speaker 3: 1:26:34

You like to take breaks? Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 1:26:35

But we also want to support each other, it's good. Now Blossom.

Speaker 3: 1:26:45

I want to give you this moment because I know that. There you know, before we get into this, one point make sure to follow these two gentlemen on their social media. The link is going to be below. Make sure to follow all their good stuff where they're going, where they're heading. Ryan's going to have some more Jubilee episodes and also Greg and I we're going to be doing some TikTok lives. We're going to be talking about it and working together. We're going to be doing some new debate style with some actually empathy. No, no, but it's going to be two white dudes that have empathy and actually have lived experience.

Speaker 3: 1:27:14

You know, and we're a little older, so we might have a little bit different perspective of how we want to actually have a conversation on TikTok.

Speaker 4: 1:27:19

Also, I was about to make fun of the moment Gay Magazine, and then you reminded me that my TikTok handle is Greg from Video One.

Speaker 2: 1:27:31

I was like, wow, gay magazine, so creative. Oh, so I got the final thought for today, y'all. So I want to talk to my black queer community. Okay, now I feel that, as someone who has a platform, it's important for me to use any and every platform to send a powerful message. Today I want to publicly call in gay Magazine. So Gay Magazine is a publication that focuses more on Black queer men, but they're expansive. They include the Black queer community. So Black trans women issues, black lesbian issues, like they, are a beautiful, powerful hub and I genuinely love Gay Magazine.

Speaker 2: 1:28:06

But recently they posted a post about a list of DL men that have been released in Houston. So apparently this black trans woman gave out this DL list of men that she's been talking to. Now, me personally, when it comes to my personal opinion about it, I don't agree with it. When trans women do that, for me, I feel like, if you're doing it, are you thinking about your safety? Are you thinking about retaliation from these men that you are releasing? I understand that some black trans women don't want to hold the secrets of gay men, don't want to hold the secrets of DL men, don't want to hold the secrets of DL men, and I completely understand that and people move to their own beat and their own drum and I don't judge it Me personally. I just worry about safety and retaliation.

Speaker 2: 1:28:59

But Gay Magazine made a post about it and there's nothing wrong with reporting it Like they're really good at that.

Speaker 2: 1:29:07

But in the slides and I don't know if that post is still up or whatnot they featured two black gay men and they were using microaggressions of transphobia to make their talking points. One black guy was talking about how the trans community can be very problematic and you know all of these things or whatnot. And for me with Gay Magazine, I was really shocked that they even platform that. They're calling it reporting, but for me it's almost like you're promoting it and two things can exist at the same time. I just really want to call in publicly Gay Magazine and just let them know be a little bit more careful with the transphobia that you are unconsciously posting. I think that there's a lot of unconscious bias there that we can all work through together. This is not a read on Gay Magazine. Gay Magazine is wonderful because they platform black trans voices and although they were originally for black gay men, black queer men, they have kindly expanded to other issues, and Gay magazine has actually posted some of the jubilee debates. They've never posted mine and I'm okay with that.

Speaker 3: 1:30:15

I'm okay with that because so, uh, gay magazine, uh, you're gonna do a cover on blossom yeah we got, we're gonna that's how we fix this.

Speaker 1: 1:30:22

Okay, no, no, that's how we fix this no put into the ether.

Speaker 3: 1:30:25

No, I'm your best friend.

Speaker 2: 1:30:26

No, I'm gonna give you an opportunity, so gay magazine.

Speaker 3: 1:30:28

Now what you should do is do an interview with blossom, because of the stuff that she's done, and then also have a conversation about this and maybe even make her I don't know some sort of y'all are so sweet listen, I'm always trying to get everybody.

Speaker 2: 1:30:38

I'm gonna tell you why. I'm okay if they don't do it, because I'm not. In some spaces I may be a little too radical and that's fine. Like I, I'm okay with that. But I just really wanted to call y'all in today and just say just really be careful of what you post.

Speaker 2: 1:30:52

I feel like y'all could have put black gay men who had an opinion that was not transphobic, underlying transphobic, and I think it's important to catch the microaggressions. We, as a black people, understand microaggressions very well, but there is a lot of transphobia in the Black queer community that we have to address. Our Black trans sisters, like TS Madison and Angelica Ross and Hope Giselle and all of these other Black trans activists and powerhouses that I love so much, are having to have this battle with Black queer men, our brothers, over what non-binary should be or not be, or using the right pronouns. Let's be clear Everybody learned pronouns in the first grade. You learned he, she, they, them and all the rest of them in first grade.

Speaker 2: 1:31:38

All trans and non-binary people want from you is just to respect their pronoun. If they go by they them, just acknowledge them as they them. It does not harm you or take anything away from you, and for me, I feel like when you have a platform like Gay Magazine, like you have the power to make change. I have been following Gay Magazine since the beginning, when they hardly had any followers and they were brand new. They've built that platform and it is so beautiful to see Black excellence come together, and I want that black excellence to continue, which is why I want to call you in with love, support and intention and just say just be a little bit more careful on the underlying transphobia that you post, because your black trans siblings and non-binary siblings are affected by it. And so that's really all that I have to say.

Speaker 3: 1:32:29

Thank you.

Speaker 2: 1:32:30

And I just wanted to say that and thank both of you for being able to come on this show today. Make sure y'all subscribe to our channel so that way you'll know when we post new videos, and you already know.

Speaker 3: 1:32:45

So subscribe down below folks and also stay tuned for more episodes on Tuesdays from the transparency podcast. Awesome, see Brown, you know I love you as my best friend only because of that.

Speaker 1: 1:32:57

Let's just say it's you know, yeah, back it up and say it, back it up and say it Okay.

Speaker 3: 1:33:02

Blossom. See Brown, you know you're my best friend in the world and I love doing these episodes with you and Greg Ryan. It's such a pleasure. We're definitely going to have you guys back. Thanks for having us. Hopefully we can even get a roundtable. My hopes are even to do like game nights with Jubilee folks. I'm down. I just I got to make the money to expand to get us there. But I'm working on it. I'm trying.

Speaker 3: 1:33:20

But, you know. Thank you guys again for driving as far as you did today Of, and you know, stay tuned more for the episodes to come and have a wonderful, wonderful day and Blossom. Do your clothes out for us.

Speaker 2: 1:33:30

And take a little time to enjoy the Transparency Podcast show. We will see you next time.