Celebrating Sensory Differences Through Children's Literature, with Lindsey Rowe Parker

Hello and welcome to another episode of Rad Mom Radio!

This week my guest is Lindsey Rowe Parker. Lindsey is the author of the award-winning book about sensory differences, Wiggles, Stomps and Squeezes Calm My Jitters Down. A mom with a home full of neurodivergent minds, she is embracing the next phase of parenting while learning to navigate and advocate for her autistic daughter.  With a recent adult diagnosis of ADHD, and a new deeper understanding of her own sensory experiences, she has begun to delve into the neurodiversity community learning all she can from neurodivergent voices.
Lindsey is also the creator of the #SensoryStories campaign that brings together authors, illustrators, educators, and advocates to raise awareness of sensory differences during Sensory Awareness Month this October. The aim is to increase mainstream understanding of the importance of sensory integration and processing.

You can learn all about Lindsey and her work on her website - www.wigglesstompsandsqueezes.com

Transcript

Natalie: 0:06

Hello and welcome to rad mom radio a podcast dedicated to moms and all their favorite topics My name is natalie and i'm your host Hello and welcome back for another episode of rad mom radio this week. My guest is lindsey roe parker Lindsay is an author based in Bakersfield, California, which is actually just two hours south of where I live, so it was pretty cool to make that connection. Lindsay is a mom to two kids, her daughter is diagnosed with autism, and Lindsay herself has an adult diagnosis of ADHD. Lindsay is the author of the award winning book about sensory differences. It's called Wiggles, Stomps, and Squeezes Call My Jitters Down. Lindsey is also the creator of the hashtag Sensory Stories Campaign that brings together authors, illustrators, educators, and advocates to raise awareness of sensory differences during Sensory Awareness Month in October. This aim is to increase mainstream understanding of the importance of sensory integration and processing. So if you go to Lindsay's website, it's wigglestompsandsqueezes. com, you'll find a section titled, Hashtag Sensory Stories List, and it'll give you a list of over 20 kids books about sensory differences. Her website is really fantastic. It has all kinds of stuff on it. You'll also find under the Read Aloud Voices tab, three different YouTube videos of the book being read aloud. So there's one of Lindsay reading the book in English, and then there's her... So Lindsay hired someone to... Translate the book into Spanish. So you'll find a video of her reading the book in Spanish. And then there's also a video of the book in American Sign Language. So it's very accessible, which is really cool. So definitely check out. Lindsey's website. There's all kinds of stuff to look at there and you can also find out on the website where to grab your own copy of Wiggles, Stomps, and Squeezes. In this episode, Lindsey and I talked a lot about her book and we went a bit into the background of What inspired her to write this book and what things were important for her to include in the book. Lindsay's very passionate about like representation and, you know, learning from autistic adults, her. Illustrator is autistic, which is really cool, and the illustrations are just really, I don't know, they're very lively and engaging. So I really love the illustrations, and I love that it's translated into Spanish. I think that's so cool. And we really talked a lot about, like, the nature of sensory differences, and then even about our own sensory issues as adult women with ADHD. And kind of like what that process is to learn about your own sensory issues after you have a child that's diagnosed with autism, which comes along with sensory issues. So this was a really, really fun conversation. I enjoyed it so much just getting to know Lindsay and. Just getting to chat with her. I really hope that you love the episode. Also. This is my interview with Lindsey Rowe Parker Hi Lindsey, welcome to rad mom radio. Hi. Thanks for having me Yeah. Thank you for joining me today from Bakersfield. Yes! It's sunny, sunny Bakersfield. I know. Yeah. So I think you're my first person that like I've, because sometimes I find guests locally, I'll find guests, you know, online. And I think you're my first person that I found online that just happened to be in Bakersfield, which is like. Barely two hours away from Fresno. So I thought that was really funny. I know. So I don't need to, sometimes I like to ask like, you know, what's it like there? I don't need to ask you that. Cause I already know. So, but I do have some icebreaker questions for you. And they are kind of related to what we're going to be talking about today. And you know, what you do for work, which is writing your children's book author. So I always like to know like people's favorites, you know, when it comes to movies, shows, books what is one of your favorite books?

Lindsey: 5:10

So, I have so many favorite books as far as children's books, mm-hmm. you know, some of the classic ones. I think one of my favorite ones as a kid was the, the one with. Grover. It's like the monster. I love them. But since becoming an author myself, I have, you know, gotten so much further into the kid lit community, which is children's literature. And I've discovered so many new things. And so it really has expanded my kind of awareness of all the different types of books that there are out there for kids. It's not just those classic ones that you know of. There's so many more. And one of the really interesting things that I have noticed over the last couple of years is the amount of, you know, neurodivergent characters in books. When I first started writing Wiggles, Thumps, and Squeezes Calm My Jitters Down a couple of years ago, there weren't that many. And in the last few years, the, the increase in neurodivergent characters and autistic creators and just the accessibility of those storylines has been, So exciting. I know this is a very long winded way of telling you what my favorite books are, but I have a whole list now that I keep of all sensory, you know, books that deal with sensory differences for children. And so I love getting new recommendations and adding to those lists. And so I don't know if I could pick one right now but. I'm always on the lookout for new ones and we're, I feel like we're really lucky in the fact that there's so many, you know, autistic and nerd virgin creators out there that are able to then get their stories into the hands of kids and make them feel less alone.

Natalie: 6:58

Are you a big reader, would you say?

Lindsey: 7:01

I feel like I'm reading less now that I have like five jobs and kids. Someday I would like to maybe go back to that, but I'm honestly right now, I'm kind of drowning a little bit but in all good things. So no, not right now. Yeah. I'm reading

Natalie: 7:20

kids books. Yeah. So you have, so your book, Wiggles, Stomps and Squeezes, Calm My Jitters Down, is that your only book or do you have other books that you've

Lindsey: 7:31

authored? That was the first one that was released in 2020. The reception was really, really good. And exciting. So we decided to make a series out of it. So the second one we'll be releasing here shortly, Wiggle Stomps and Squeezes, Calming My Jitters at School. It is the same character kind of the same format of the book. But it's in a different location. Obviously it's school. And I'm really excited about that one. We're going to do, you know, Wiggle Stomps and Squeezes, Calming My Jitters at the Dentist, Calming My Jitters at the Holidays. We're going to, Those haven't been written yet, but that's kind of the path that we're going on to kind of take those, those moments that can sometimes be challenging and kind of explore them a little bit and not necessarily explore them in that. Because I don't necessarily need to add drama to anyone's life, but more of like examples of challenges with supportive adults and supportive strategies. If that makes sense, I am. I have been told by some. Publishers that my stories are too quiet. And I, I don't necessarily agree. And I don't know if you always need to just like jam a story full of drama. There's enough drama in our lives anyway. So I feel like having a loving, quiet. Story about real stuff is just as impactful as, you know, a full blown drama. Yeah.

Natalie: 9:09

Yeah. I want, I mean, it sounds like, are they wanting like that story arc or there's like that, you know, like something blows up, like, you know, the child goes to an event and they have a sensory, you know, overload experience. And then, I mean, I could see that, but also that's kind of like. Puts the focus on the, like you're saying, like on the drama instead of like the person, you know, learning about the other elements, like, Oh, I do have support and I can learn how to cope with these things. And that's interesting. And there

Lindsey: 9:50

are, I mean, there's definitely a challenge in each of the books. But it's, it doesn't get blown so far out of proportion that it's uncomfortable for the reader, you know, it's, it's more of a, Oh, there's a kid. Hi. It's, it's more of like, Oh, I've. I've felt that. I understand that. That's me too. I've been in that position. It's more of that kind of you know, challenge. I

Natalie: 10:15

think, yeah, I mean, I, I could see why they would want that because maybe they feel like that's what like attracts readers, but I also know so many moms who would just love something to be able to help their kids understand, you know, like as moms of autistic kids, you know, social stories are a big thing. So a lot of times you're like, Oh, we're going to have this new experience. Does anyone have a social story for it? So like having a set of books that you could just like have at home, like that's the perfect social story. Holidays are huge. So I think that's so exciting. I, I think that would be such a great book because holidays are such a pain in the butt. Anyways, and then when you involve, you know, having to teach the whole family, how to honor somebody's need for, you know, timeouts and foods and like smells and how long are we going to stay and all these things. So that's, that's really cool. And I agree that like, just having a nice quiet story that's more focused on teaching and less on like turmoil, see that, that'd be pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I guess maybe people who haven't experienced it wouldn't understand, like you really don't need all the hype. There's enough hype. Like when you, when you bring a kid to a Thanksgiving that will only eat chicken nuggets, like you've got enough to work with there, you know, without anything else, you know. And

Lindsey: 11:52

another thing that we really wanted to do in this book, and I say, we, I mean, myself and my illustrator, who is absolutely incredible. Oh,

Natalie: 12:01

I saw that not to interrupt you on your website. I love that. So your illustrator is autistic. Yes.

Lindsey: 12:07

Yeah. And we really wanted to make sure that the. The parental figures or the adults in these stories and the child's life were positive representations of support. And so it's not, you know, there's not going to be a whole lot of weird, crazy things that are happening. It's a reaction to a sensory stimulus and really great parental and adult support on how to get that child through that. experience. So it's not super blatant, I don't think, but when you step back and look at it from, you know, an adult's perspective, you're like, Oh, okay. Yeah. This that's kind of modeling a little bit also. And we wanted to make sure that that was positive representation.

Natalie: 12:56

That's really cool. Is that something that you and your illustrator, I can't remember their name, but is that something that the two of you sort of discussed and kind of figured out how you wanted to display that or demonstrate that?

Lindsey: 13:12

I don't think we actually discussed it. I think it just kind of organically came about with the way that we wanted to represent Stories of, of neurodivergent people they themselves are autistic. It's Rebecca Burgess. And so their approach to these types of stories is just, it's so authentic and it comes from a place of vulnerability. And I mean, they took the words that I wrote on a page. And just brought everything to life. And I, I, it was more than I could have ever imagined or expected. And so I always tell Bex that there, Bex is the nickname for Rebecca Burgess. They're my hero for that, you know, completely took what I wrote and made magic from it. Something that I could not have done myself.

Natalie: 14:06

Yeah. I, I thought your website and the illustrations are really beautiful and very expressive. So they did a great job. With that. And then I also saw that, or I also saw that you had someone translated to Spanish, which I thought was really cool too.

Lindsey: 14:23

That actually that's Laura Fuentes Lopez, she was our speech language pathologist. Mm-hmm. And so she was like a personal family friend and, you know, our, our speech therapist while we were going through kind of all this learning process and so she got to see the whole process of, of, you know, writing the book. I let her and our occupational therapist read it at different stages. And then once we published it, I was like, I really want this. Like accessibility is a very important thing to me. And I realized that I, I have the ability to, to kind of increase that accessibility. And so I just asked her if she would be willing to translate it and she did. And it was such a fun process. And just to have that personal relationship with her and our occupational therapist through that process was just super, super cool. It was a great experience.

Natalie: 15:22

Yeah. I will say like, from looking at your website, I could tell that. Inclusivity and representation were very important to you and the people that you worked with when you were. developing your book, which I just thought was really cool. Even the characters themselves, I, I noticed they seemed like it was more I guess a broader representation of people in general. So I thought that was really cool. Is it hard to, to do that? Like, is it hard to, like, when you're writing or? Doing something creative that you want that you want to sort of put out there, is it hard to have those things where you're like, this is very important to me in my work? Is it hard, like, cause I know you were saying like, you didn't want it to be super dramatic and they kind of pushed back. Is it hard to have those things where you're like, this is important to me to, to put out there? Do you get a lot of resistance and stuff like that?

Lindsey: 16:21

From my personal experience, yes. I think I shopped around the manuscript for at least a year before anybody bit on it. And I think part of that was because it was a quiet story. I think part of it also was very niche. And Without the illustrations, it didn't make a whole lot of sense if you've never experienced you know, sensory differences or had, you know, neurodivergent loved ones that you've seen them experience it either. So I think there was kind of a little bit of like, Oh, that's cute, but I don't know what it is. When I finally found my publisher. And this again was before we had illustrations she has an autistic grandchild. And so when she read it, and I didn't know this at the time, but when she read it, she connected with the story immediately and was like, this is my grandchild. This is, we experienced this. Yes. I want to do this. And the really exciting part about working with the publisher that I'm with, which is BQB. I got to choose my illustrator, which was like, that was so key in this whole puzzle. And so I went onto Twitter. This was like, you know, 20, 2019, maybe 2018, something like that. I went onto Twitter and I started looking up autistic and neurodivergent illustrators and artists, and I found Beck's and they had done. This really beautiful and simple to understand comic about understanding the spectrum. And I don't know if you've seen that before, but it's basically takes the spectrum, which a lot of people look at as linear and put that circle. And just reading through that, I was like, Oh, this is the person. This is the person that I want. And so I sent them a message and I was like, Hey, I'm thinking about doing this book here. Here's the manuscript. Would you consider partnering on a project? And you know, they said yes. And I did like a dance all by myself in my office. And cause it just, it meant that the like nugget of an idea that I had was. It was resonating with people with that actual lived experience. And so that was such a huge moment in this whole process. And since then, I mean, we never spoke on the phone. I think the first time we ever talked to each other, other than email was when we did an interview together. And it might've been, I said, we were on NPR together and we'd never spoken on the phone. It was pretty funny. It might've been one before that, but yeah, we just work really, really well together. So I'm very thankful for, for BEX and everything they bring to the table.

Natalie: 19:11

So, like we said earlier, your book is called Wiggles, Stomps, and Squeezes, Calm My Jitters Down. So what would you say, like, what is the story about, and what inspired you to write the story?

Lindsey: 19:24

So the story follows a young child, just through a normal day. They get dressed, they go to the park, they, you know, have a meal. And it's kind of touches on those sensory experiences that everybody has, but most of the time you don't even notice them because they're, you know, they're processed normally. You're not overly sensitive or under sensitive to any of them. And so you just don't, it doesn't register. And so for this child, they, Feel things very acutely and some things they love and some things are really a challenge for them. And so we kind of followed them through their day, some of the strategies that they have and. It's a challenge that they overcome, which is when they're in the sandbox and they get sand all over themselves and they can't get it off. And so, but the underpinning of the entire story is that that child is never asked to change who they are and that they are loved and cherished just how they are and how they live. And they're the parents in the story. Somebody asked me if. Mom in the story was me. And I was like, no mom in the story is who I hope to be. Like she is an aspirational mom who just is incredibly supportive. And some days, you know, some days we are all like that. Right. And then other days we kind of fall short. And so that is not me. It is who I hope to be. And what I strive to be for my kids to be, you know, supportive in their experience.

Natalie: 20:59

And what would you say, like, inspired you to write a story like this?

Lindsey: 21:04

I did not. Set out to write a story about sensory differences. It was not the plan. I was writing a bunch of stories. I think I've written like eight other ones that just, you know, are in various stages of, of not complete. And just, just for fun. And I, when I started writing this one, I was writing just about little vignettes of things that happened with my little girl. My little boy was a little too young at that point, but just like little, little snippets, little vignettes on the swings, us at the park, you know, eating dinner and. They just kind of morphed over a few months of writing into a sensory differences story. So that wasn't the intention to start out. But once I had it all laid out, I was like, Oh, that's what this is. So it's been I think I said this earlier when we were chatting before we started recording that like. You plan stuff and most everything in my life has actually not gone to plan. None of these things were planned. They just have happened. Great opportunities have come through. Some of them I've missed, some of them I've grabbed, and I feel like this was one of those that just was able to grab it. And it's been really exciting and people are responding to it. And I'm. Super lucky to have, you know, a publisher that also sees that and was like, okay, let's make more. Because people are, they can see themselves in the story. Yeah. I

Natalie: 22:41

don't think sometimes we realize how much sensory input has such a huge impact on our lives, like pretty much all day long. Yeah, I think, yeah, we don't really think about it, but there's, there's so much. That goes into just regulating yourself when it comes to like all the input in your environment, like buzzing noises, the temperature, like something you touch, like those things have such a huge impact on your ability to function, which is especially for people who have sensitivities. But yeah, I don't, I don't think we really spend a lot of time like acknowledging. What a big deal that is.

Lindsey: 23:20

It is. It is. And, and there are, I have to say the eight senses. Do you know about all eight of them?

Natalie: 23:27

I actually just talked to a mom recently and I, I can't remember she said seven. So maybe you're going to teach me a new one.

Lindsey: 23:34

So I think there's, I mean, If you really dig into the science part of it, which I, I don't because I am not, you know, trained in that area, but I think there's many within those eight but they have simplified it down into these eight, which are, you know, the ones that we know, which are, you know, sight, smell, sound, touch taste, and then there's. three others. One of them is in proprioception, which that one took me forever to figure out how to say. That's like your body in space, right? That's where you are in relation to other things. And then the other one is vestibular, which is like, if you think of swinging on a swing or your balance. That's that kind of feeling. And then interoception, which is the feelings inside your body. So you don't have to go to the bathroom or you are hungry or thirsty, like being able to, to identify and differentiate those types of things. And so they're, it's not like they're nuisances. We all feel them every single day, but. Learning that they exist was like a game changer for me because so many of the things that I felt as a kid that I thought were weird or strange or, you know, all those labels that you put on things when you don't understand them you know, going through this process with my child through occupational therapy and just learning about our brains and our bodies. I was like, Oh, Oh. Oh, that makes more sense. Like, I'm not weird. This is just, you know, how my brain and body function. And I'm a little more sensitive to some of the stimuli than some of my peers were. And so finally understanding that at, you know, 38 I think helped me give a lot more grace to myself. And then in turn that makes me give a lot more grace to other people when they're experiencing that kind of stuff. So it's kind of like that, you know, got a parent, parent yourself first and regulate yourself first. And I spend a lot of time in like mom groups and things and I see a lot of like, how do I, how do I help my child do this? How do I help my child do that? And my first go to always is. Have you regulated yourself first? Yeah. Like, where are you? How are you? Check in with you first because you will always be able to support other people better. You check in and regulate yourself first. And it sounds like so woo woo, but it's not. It's not. It's not. Cause I, I parent better when I regulate myself.

Natalie: 26:21

It's actually something that. You know, it has come up so many times in podcasting. So like, I think at this point I've talked to like, maybe somewhere around like 70 moms and you know, like it's something that doesn't seem like it, it seems like it should already be obvious that common sense, so many moms bring up and kind of make this connection between like how hard it is to help your child regulate emotionally when you yourself. We're never taught how to regulate your own emotions. And I don't know if it's just like this generational thing, you know, that we're all kind of like in this similar space where we're parenting children without really having been parented the way that we needed to be parented. To parent our children effectively. And so that comes up all the time. It's definitely not woo woo. Like when you're freaking out internally, and I think as women, a lot of it's internal. It's, it's a huge like side track, but have you ever watched the show Seinfeld? Did you ever see the episode where Elaine's in the subway and she's freaking out because the subway shuts down, but she doesn't say anything out loud. No. Ugh, there's this episode where she's like, I feel like she's trying to get to some kind of event. And she's in the subway, it stops, there's people all around her, she has, there's like something she's smelling, but she's freaking out, like in her mind you hear her, her thoughts, she's screaming, she's raging, she's freaking out. Having a full blown meltdown in her head, but externally you see nothing. And I feel like, I feel like that's, as women especially, that's what we do. Like, you don't see a lot of it. 95 percent of it is probably internal, you know, so, like you don't. You don't see us struggling, but we are. And so I think, like, when it comes to trying to teach your kids how to regulate, like you said, like, how are you going to help anyone regulate when you're freaking out? You just can't. So, it's, I think it's such a huge thing that, that I think a lot of us are learning is, how do we give our kids something they so desperately need when we don't really have the tools, you know?

Lindsey: 28:49

So, yeah, and it, yeah. So much about the continually learning. And, and I mean, I feel like that's my, one of my most important priorities as a mom is to continually learn about, about parenting, parenting, you know, and. Just learn about how my brain and body work and then sharing that information then with my kids. So we talk about it all the time. Do I have all the answers? Absolutely not. I'm never gonna have all the answers, but we talk about it. So it's like an awareness thing and we're, we talk about the feelings in our bodies. We talk about the things that are happening outside of us. We talk about all that stuff so that they know. That there's nothing wrong with them. We might not know how to address it at that moment, but we'll figure it out together. And that nothing they're feeling or experiencing is wrong. And so that's kind of how we approach it. Cause we're, we're always learning.

Natalie: 29:53

So kind of like, it sounds like some of the, like the inspiration for your book came from like just everyday situations with your daughter, Hazel, who's diagnosed with autism. Yeah. And Hazel is eight years old.

Lindsey: 30:08

She is she's seven,

Natalie: 30:10

seven. I'm sorry. Okay. Seven. She's seven years old. Was that kind of like when you started to learn more about like sensory issues was just in, you know, working with Hazel.

Lindsey: 30:20

Yes, absolutely. So it was my occupational therapist. So when we got her diagnosis, she was like a day after her second birthday. I mean, she was very little. And. You know, like, like many parents, I went down a Google rabbit hole immediately and was like, Oh, what can I do? What can I do? I need to, you know, learn all these things and support her. And of course we were told to do a whole lot of therapies. Some of them I found super beneficial to us. Some we chose not to continue. And I'd say the one that was most impactful was occupational therapy for us. And that is you know, not only did it teach me how to help her and support her, but it taught me so much about me and. You know, kind of looking back across my entire life and then not long after I got into a car accident, had a bunch of neuropsych testing and then found out that I had ADHD and I was neurodivergent. It's like, this is all kind of coming together now, you know, it's, it's starting to make a lot of sense. And I, I told my parents you know, that I had been diagnosed and they were like, oh yeah. And I was like, what, basically it was kind of like everybody around me knew that I was ADHD, but me, and I was like, well, that could have been beneficial, but yeah, so it, there was a, you know, a stigma attached to it and I, I feel like we're moving farther away from that now which is wonderful, but there was, there was a stigma attached to it and so it was kind of like, well, we're just gonna, but. Not talk about it or not tell her about it to protect me, I guess. But that is not the, that's not the approach that we've taken. You know, we talk about our, how our brains work every day. And Hazel knows that she's autistic and she's excited about talking about it. And you know, talk about our neurodivergence. Yeah, yeah.

Natalie: 32:30

Do you have the inattentive type of ADHD? Yes. Yeah, I think it's interesting like adult women with ADHD, I feel like it's talked about so little that it almost like catches you by surprise. Well, not anymore. Now it feels like a lot of women are being diagnosed. But I remember when I first would hear someone has ADHD, like as an adult female. Yeah. Come from a psychology background and they don't really talk about that very much. It's like adult ADD, but it's not talked about that much. And if it is, it's more talked about like with men, you know, not so much with women. So, but that's really interesting that you got a diagnosis through a car

Lindsey: 33:14

accident. Yes. Yeah. I had I mean, I basically, I was just having sensory meltdown. And my neuropsychologist told me basically that I had been masking really well, you know, for the first 30 something years, but then I also got in a car accident, had a concussion and had some babies that I had to, to take care of. And all of that piled on top of each other was just kind of like a perfect storm of not being able to function. And so, I mean, at the. At the time I was terrified because I thought I had brain damage of some sort. And so I kept going back and you know, I had anxiety and depression on top of it and PTSD and all of these things plus ADHD. And once we kind of identified those things and I was, you know, medicated for the anxiety and depression and got those under control, then I could then turn my, turn my sights to the ADHD. And I was like, and I mean, it all makes sense now. But it was a, it was a rough way to figure it out. But I'm also super grateful that I did because it kind of changed the trajectory of, of my life and how I. How I view myself and how I, you know, give grace to myself and to my kids. So it was a blessing in disguise, I guess you could say. And it was, it was brutal, but I'm happy that it happened.

Natalie: 34:44

Yeah. So I've been like interviewing a lot of moms lately that have like an adult ADHD diagnosis and I, myself. I have one too, like I was recently diagnosed with ADHD and something that I've noticed that you've kind of brought up a little bit was the learning how to have grace for yourself. Because I don't know about you, but like, I've always grown up just thinking I was weird. Like there's something wrong with me. I'm weird. Why can't you get over that, Natalie? Like you make a big deal about everything, you're so dramatic. And it's not just my voice, like I was kind of told that a lot. You know, by like, mostly my mother and so like her voice still, you know, in my head, like, oh, you're so dramatic. Like, just get over it. Ignore it. And there's like always been a lot of shame around why is everything such a big deal for you? Why can't you just get over it? And I think learning that I have ADHD completely. Reframes everything because duh, that's why it's hard It's like that's why it's hard like I'm really not that weird It's just that like these things that are hard for me There's a whole like framework for why it makes sense that it's hard. And so that's been really nice because then That has helped me still very much in the beginning of it, but to start to learn how to stop shaming myself for getting angry when I'm hot. I hate being hot. And I live in the, you know, you know what it's like here in Central Valley of California. I feel very angry when I get hot and now I don't have to feel like a jerk for that. It's just like, I, now I can kind of like implement strategies, figure out how do I deal with that. And then. Yeah, so I can definitely relate to that part. Have there been like different sensory things for you that have kind of like Now, with that framework that you have ADHD, like you can kind of learn how to cope with it better.

Lindsey: 36:58

Yes, I can identify when things are starting to shift now. Instead of just before, you know, like pushing against whatever that wave is that's coming. And be like, no, now I can kind of ride it and I can identify it. And that has helped that that's with anxiety and depression and all of those things put together. And ADHD is like. Once you can name it and identify it and see it and understand it, then you can, you know, help yourself through whatever that is or change, change direction, change your environment, whatever that is. And so you know, I used to be super impulsive, which I still am, but now instead of like, Oh, I'm going to quit my job and change my whole life and move somewhere. Which is probably not a great idea to do when, you know, you have a family and a mortgage and all those things now I can just say, okay, I can see what I'm missing and lacking, and I'm looking for something. So instead, I'm going to paint a wall instead, you know, looking for that kind of new I don't know, maybe it's a dopamine hit, I don't know, but it, it keeps me from doing things that are, I wouldn't say detrimental, but just the, the ramifications. Don't have to be as big as I would be looking to make them every time. And so it's you know, I can see it coming now. I'm like, okay, well, let's, you know, let's go foster a dog. Let's paint a wall. Let's rearrange the furniture and maybe you don't have to upend your whole life. If that makes sense.

Natalie: 38:28

Yeah. No, totally. I do wish there were easier ways to get those dopamine hits, like, you know, I've always had this thing where like, when it comes to accumulating things, I've always had this thing where I don't like to have a lot of stuff because I love the idea of just being able to. To just go, you know? And I think that fits in with that, like, just wanting to have the freedom to, like, like you said, upend your whole life. Not that I've ever done that, but, but yeah, it's like, it's, it is this, like, I read that we have this need for novelty. But then once, like, I don't know if you do this, but we're both creative. So it's like, you know, you want to, to learn how to do something new. So I've bought so many kits, like I have a freaking basket weaving kit sitting on my floor. I researched and researched. I was on Pinterest for hours, Etsy for hours. I felt like I had to have it right now. Bought it and guess what it's doing? It's literally sitting on the floor collecting dust. I have not. I opened it and I looked at all the things. I was like, oh, that's cool. That was like two months ago. I have not, not woven anything.

Lindsey: 39:48

It's so true.

Natalie: 39:49

Yeah. And I'm trying to learn how to stop shaming myself for that too. It's like. You know, now that now I get that. Okay. So like you said, where, how can we find, how can we meet that need for novelty without buying something that's just going to sit there? Painting a wall is a great idea. So you could do that in a couple of days.

Lindsey: 40:13

Yeah. Whenever I get my paint, I have this big box of paints. Whenever I get it out, my husband's like, oh. Yeah. Here she goes. Yeah. It's hard. Stay out of my way while I'm painting something. Oh my gosh. That's

Natalie: 40:27

another one too, is like, when you finally are able to initiate a task, it's like, Don't talk to me. Don't come near me. Don't ask me to do anything. There's just so much to learn about, about being neurodivergent, you know? There's so much, and thankfully once you learn it, it's like, oh, okay, that makes sense. How can I work with that? You know, so have you, like in learning about your own ADHD, have you learned how to advocate for your own sensory needs through that

Lindsey: 41:06

actually just did at work and I, I have not, and I don't know if I haven't done it before or if this one just really stood out in my mind cause I intentionally did it. But we were doing some interviews for. that we were hiring for and I was going to be leading them. And you might not believe this, but I get really nervous talking to people. And so I was like, Oh my God, I have to do these interviews where I'm leading and I'm going to be, you know, Asking the questions and so what I asked of the team, I was like, instead of doing the normal you know, just hop on the phone and start firing questions at this candidate, I was like, can we do a written version? And then we can use that written strategy or whatever it was, and we were not asking for free work or anything like that, but you know, it was kind of like a, a prompt and. They agreed to do, you know, reformat kind of the, the discussion and we had them do a prompt and then we walked through the prompt together and it was so much more clear for, I believe, everybody that was on the call we had, you know, Clear path to, to ask questions and they felt comfortable sharing their ideas. And it was just, it was so nice. And I was like, Oh my God. Okay. So that's, that's how you can do it. You know, it wasn't confrontational. They didn't have any issues with me doing that or asking for that change. And it made everything easier for the folks that were on the phone. So it doesn't seem like a big deal, but it felt like such a big deal. That's not the typical structure of, you know, an interview. And so and that just happened this past week. So I was pretty proud of that. When I texted my sister immediately, I'm like, I advocated for myself. So it was, it was cool. Weird to be, you know, now I'm in my forties. That's weird to just finally now be learning that. So I'm hoping, you know, that I can kind of help my kids. Start that process sooner than I did. Mm hmm, totally.

Natalie: 43:16

Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if that's like just part of. Life. I remember when I was like a teenager, I remember my mom saying something about like, not caring what people thought of her. And I remember thinking like, well, how do you do that? Like, first of all, that's audacious. Like, how do you not care about what people think? And then kind of like, secretly like You know, I would love to not care what people think, but then she said that that didn't really start to happen until about her forties. And so I remember thinking like, well, I don't want to wait till my forties to not care what people think, because that's like, you know, half your life that now you don't get to have that freedom of not caring, but then here I am like approaching 40 and I'm still working through like all these things. So I wonder if that's just like part of like. Being a human and, and just what we evolve through is, you do learn these things later and maybe that's okay. Like, we can help our kids maybe learn them sooner, but. I don't know. Maybe that's just how life is, is that you learn some of these bigger things later on. I don't

Lindsey: 44:24

know. I think some of that also has to do with being confident in your decisions too, right? So I know I was not confident in many of my decisions growing up and in my early young adult life. And now. I do feel confident when I make a choice. It's not because I don't know when I just chose something I've, I've really put in the effort to understand you know, what the options were and I had made an educated decision. And so that feels better, you know, and it makes it easier to. So then kind of stand your ground a little bit and what you've chosen. We've talked a little bit about, you know, generational changes in parenting. And, you know, that happens all the time when my parents are witnessing me parent differently than they did. And, you know, they, they raised their concerns and I have not chosen this path lightly. You know, I, I appreciate, you know, the parenting that you have done for me but I'm choosing a different path. And it's, it's hard to say that to them, but at the same time, I'm, I feel very confident in my decisions. Even when they're like pulling their hair out, going, what are you doing? I'm like, well, come along for the ride because this is what I'm doing.

Natalie: 45:45

So, you know, when it comes to like your book and what you're trying to communicate to your audience, what would you say is like the most important message that you want readers to get from this book?

Lindsey: 45:59

That they're, they're not broken. All the things that they're feeling are completely normal. I mean, the human experience is going to be different for everyone. But there, you know, sensory differences are a very normal part of life. And it doesn't mean that. They're broken or they're wrong or there's something, you know, weird and that they don't have to change their strategies and supports that they can, you know, find or, or implement that will help. But their, their value is just in who they are, just as they are. And I think that's probably, I mean, again, that sounds kind of woo woo, but it's, it is true. That's it. Like you're, you're valuable just as you are not. Not if you just change a couple things. Just as you are. I love that.

Natalie: 46:54

So where can we, like, find out more about what you do? Like, what's your website? How can we find you on social media? Where can people grab your book?

Lindsey: 47:03

My website is Wiggles, Stomps and Squeezes dot com. It will have the links to that great list that I told you about with all the sensory differences books. It will have links to my Wiggle Stomps and Squeezes Calm My Jitters Down in English and Spanish. The new book is already for pre sale, Wiggle Stomps and Squeezes Calming My Jitters at School. And then I also have an activity book that kind of goes with any of the books in the series. And it has a bunch of sensory activities that you can do in a classroom or at home. We have made it a point to, to make the copyright on that one. So that anybody can copy pages and use it and in any kind of institutional or educational setting I was very, very clear with my publisher that I was like, I want people and teachers and, and families to be able to copy this thing and use it however they want to, and not, you know, have to buy multiple copies to use something. So that is a resource available and it's all, everything is on Amazon, but then. Basically, any of those any of those online booksellers, so like Barnes and Noble or Books a Million Target, Walmart, they're all on their online websites. Not a whole lot in physical brick and mortar stores but online there's a lot. Okay. Cool. And you can order it through your library. Hmm. Okay. Thank you.

Natalie: 48:28

Awesome. What did your, what did Hazel think about

Lindsey: 48:31

the book? Oh, she loves it. She loves it. She'll just be like, Oh, it's your new book. They did get to read the second one. I'm just on my computer cause we haven't, you know, got any printed copies yet. And they can see little. Little vignettes of their, you know, their life. And again, it's not us, it's not them, but there are things that have happened to them that are represented in the story. And so they really, they like that. And it's pretty cute. That's

Natalie: 49:00

cool. It's fun. Well, thank you so much for coming on and chatting with me. I really enjoyed getting to talk to you and learn about you. And yeah, just thank you so much for making the time for me. Yeah. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much for joining me this week for another episode. I hope that you enjoyed it. If you'd like to get in contact with me, you can send me an email. My email address is radmomradio at gmail. com. You can also find me on Instagram at radmomradio. Have a great week and I'll talk to you soon. Bye!