The LoCo Experience
The LoCo Experience is a long-form conversational podcast that dives deep into the journeys of business leaders, entrepreneurs, and changemakers in Northern Colorado. Hosted by Curt Bear, Founder of LoCo Think Tank, the show brings real, raw, and unfiltered conversations—where guests share their successes, struggles, and lessons learned along the way.
LoCo Think Tank is Colorado’s premier business peer advisory organization, founded in Fort Collins to help business owners gain perspective, accountability, and encouragement to grow both personally and professionally. LoCo chapters bring together business owners at all stages of the journey into professionally facilitated peer advisory chapters, led by experienced business veterans. These groups provide a trusted space to share challenges, seek advice, learn togethter, and support each other’s success.
The LoCo Experience Podcast extends this mission beyond the chapter meetings— bringing the wisdom, insights, and stories of local business leaders to a wider audience.
Our triad mission with this podcast is simple:
Inspire through real stories of resilience and success.
Educate by sharing valuable business insights.
Entertain with engaging, unfiltered conversations.
If you love “How I Built This” and the free-flowing style of Joe Rogan - but with a Northern Colorado focus - you’ll enjoy The LoCo Experience! Our closing segment, "The LoCo Experience," asks guests to share their craziest stories — and we get some doozies!
It’s a passion project with purpose, and we invite you to listen, follow, and share, and maybe consider sponsoring. Know someone with a great story? Nominate your favorite business leader for an episode!
The LoCo Experience
EXPERIENCE 221 | Innovation, Transformation, and Quantum Reinvention with Sjeanne Cawdry, Director and Founder of the Center of Liberation
In this episode of the Local Experience Podcast, I sat down with Sjeanne Cawdry, the Director and Founder of The Center of Liberation. Sean shares her diverse background, from being born and raised in Johannesburg, South Africa, to moving to Fort Collins, Colorado. Her journey includes a rich history in corporate investment banking in innovative roles, along with personal experiences that led her to found her center aimed at supporting conscious business practices and leadership development.
Sjeanne highlights how she transitioned from personal training gyms to a significant role in one of South Africa's leading corporate investment banks, and how she was involved in transformative projects, particularly in the realms of cryptocurrency and digital assets. Sjeanne also touches on her approach to understanding and leveraging future trends like AI and digital currencies.
The conversation also includes Sjeanne's personal life experiences, including her two near-death experiences and how they helped shaped her perspective on life and work. She discusses her move to America, driven by an online romance during COVID, and her observations on the cultural differences between the two countries. Sjeanne concludes by offering advice for young people navigating their educational and career paths, emphasizing the importance of following one’s passions and creating value in their work.
The LoCo Experience Podcast is sponsored by: Purpose Driven Wealth Thrivent: Learn more
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Music By: A Brother's Fountain
In this episode of the Loco Experience Podcast, I sat down with Sean Cadry, the director and founder of the Center of Liberation. Sean shares her diverse background from being born and raised in Johannesburg, South Africa to moving to Fort Collins, Colorado. Her journey includes rich history in corporate investment banking in innovative roles, along with personal experiences that led her to found her center aimed at supporting. Conscious business practices and leadership development. Sean highlights how she transitioned from personal training gyms to a significant role in one of South Africa's leading corporate investment banks and how she was involved in transformative projects, particularly in the realms of cryptocurrency and digital assets. Sean also touches on her approach to understanding and leveraging future trends like AI and digital currencies. The conversation also includes Shawn's personal life experiences, including her two near-death experiences, and how they help shape her perspective on life and work. She discusses her move to America, driven by an online romance during Covid, and her observations on the cultural differences between the two countries. Shawn concludes by offering advice for young people navigating their educational and career paths, emphasizing the importance of following one's passions and creating value in their work. I hope you enjoy this episode with Sean Cadre. Welcome back to the Local Experience Podcast. I'm here today with Sean Cadry Cory, and, uh, she is the director and founder of The Center of Liberation, which I love to hear. And she's, uh, a business advisor and quantum reinvention strategist. Yeah. Well said. Yeah. And she's got a fun accent because you are from South Africa. Yay. Johannesburg. Awesome. Um, let's start out with, uh, Johannesburg. Yes. Can we, how, how, how long, uh, has it been since you've lived in South Africa? Lived in America or lived in, lived in South Africa. Oh, I have. Um, I was born and, and raised there. And so I lived there for 51 years before packing up and heading to Coming here. Coming here? Yes. Oh, really? So it's all very recent. So we're your first stop. You're my first stop. I've traveled to various parts of the world with thorough, enjoyed Oh, that's really good. But America's, yeah, I don't think it's too common to pack up too many times and move country O once is good for me. Fair enough, fair enough. And how did you, how did you land in Fort Collins? If I may. Uh, Fort Collins. So my wife is originally American. Okay. Uh, so Dana, and so we met, um, through Covid. Okay. And, uh, a beautiful little un online romance that translated into moving continents. Oh, wow. So she spent some time with me in South Africa to Henes book. So she's got a good, good taste of that for the last, uh, for a good few years. And, um, it was time for me to come and experience to her country. Oh, okay. And, and was she here or did you move to her? No, California. So before we arrived very intuitively, I just kept saying, from my perspective, I've never been here. I never set foot in Colorado. I'd been to California in America. I was just intuitively. It feels like Colorado's gonna be home. It just feels like Colorado's gonna be home. Okay. And so when we arrived, we, we spent some time traveling and, um, came to visit Colorado. I fell in love. She fell in love with it. Yeah. And, uh, yeah. Well, Colorado's one thing, but then tell me more for Collins, Fort Collins. Yeah. How did you, was there a list of finalists in Colorado? So Dana is a director of, uh, one of the directors at Norco volleyball. And so she, she had a, a position opened up for, for volleyball directorship. So, yeah, just so the, the, the job kind of helped choose the location, the job to help choose the location. Yeah. And you have a really interesting career in, uh, finance is a lot of your background, but especially around like. Strategy and money systems and kind of the deeper like risk analysis stuff, it feels like. Yes, yes. So, um, before leaving South Africa, I was in the corporate investment banking, one of the niche corporate investment banks in, uh, in South Africa, in back on the African continent. And, uh, very well established and well-known and spent, uh, over a decade, so like comparable to our JP Morgan or whatever, all this, we were always in conversation with JP Morgan, um, and the, like, some of them portions of assets and things Yeah. Understanding, you know, what they're doing and what we, what we should be doing. And so, yeah, I invested, uh, much of my time in, in the banking industry and, uh, it's really, really fascinating. And also just to watch really, you know, uh, the, the onset of something like cryptocurrency, digital assets, uh, for example, um, you know, and watch how this sort of. Uh, the landscape of, of finances. It's not changed altogether, but what's coming online and what's driving it and, uh, yeah. Yeah, it's really, well, and I don't know what the clip is, but Trump has definitely like increased Yes. Like a strategic investment in Bitcoins and some other stuff. And, and, and Trump coins too, right? Yeah. Trump coins. Yeah. Well, German meme coins. The meme coins. The meme coins. So definitely, so I think you're seeing that globally as well. This kind of adoption process now, which we, we were expecting when, you know, we sort of first started exploring it and so interesting to see, you know, what happens in America, we know happens around the world. And so, you know, having a Trump administration promoting and being on board with the strategic. Reserve not just Bitcoin. Yeah. Uh, yeah. Well it kind of acknowledges the The legitimizes, yeah. Yeah. Legitimizes it. And it's almost like a, like I would say the competition for what is money right now is probably like, you know, the US dollar certainly has a place in that. Yes. Bitcoins gold and then probably like oil or commod energy resources in general food. Yeah. Yeah. Commodities as well. But especially like you need energy to make food. Absolutely right. And move it around and stuff. Yeah. And I mean, if you just look at, for example, you know. Who makes up the administration from, you know, you've got obviously the likes of Musk, who's, uh, originally from South Africa. Sure. In fact, the same school, um, with different years that we were in. Oh really? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, it's all energy based, right? So Right. So very strong, um, tech orientated, let's say, um, administration, which is interesting. Energy heavy. Yeah. Yeah. And it's all energy, right? Yeah. Like data centers cost a fortune and a gr search or a chat. GPT search costs a hundred times as much as a Google one does. Yeah. So energy wise, I always say, you know, look where the smart money's investing or what, what, what are, what's the smart money doing? And, uh, follow the smart money. So I'm, I'm just, I'm curious and, and you know, again, a little bit of, you know, who I am is I'm a bit of a futurist and forward thinker, so. I was, you know, dabbling in the world of Bitcoin and crypto in 2017 when I first got started and just became really immersed in it. We looked at, at providing that, uh, offerings to our clients. Sure. So I really kind of got immersed in it. And you're gonna get expert status if you're gonna talk. Yeah. Like, what does it mean? Like what, you know, what is driving this and, and et cetera. So it's been very interesting to watch the progression now it's, that's eight years later and sort of, you know, strategic reserves and trump coins and meme coins and Right. Well, and, and for businesses and industries, whether it's agriculture or mining or finance, like what is. The impact of not just those different currencies and stuff, but also technology in general. How is AI affect the operating model? Um, how many employees do we need, uh, if we've got a well implemented AI policy or Definitely, yeah. Big, big, big changes. And that's one of the, you know, the, the sort of future trends, which is, it's not even future trend. It's here now. It's uh, it has already disrupted. It's already nudging you. Yeah. Yeah. It's not even nudging. I think if you pounding, if you already sort of lift the carpet, I think people would get quite significantly shaken if they're not sort of touching it in some way. Mm-hmm. So see the, I wanna say the power and look, anything that I comment on, there's always different sides of the story. Sure. Uh, which I can appreciate, you know, when things are, are taken, anything can be used incorrectly and you know, so, so hopefully the likes of air is used, you know, proactively, but, but in a positive way. Good for the future of humanity. Right. Um, well, and so I guess that's where that quantum reinvention is correct. Like we're, we're moving into this quantum world and we haven't even talked about quantum computing yet. No. No. And I'm guessing that's something you're looking into now. Yeah. Starting to sort of, uh, become more familiar with it. But the idea of quantum reinvention strategist, and I know I often get asked this question, is very much, you know, with the likes of AI and, um, if you had to look at like your, the scarce intelligence of your, your logical thinking Sure. And how that's been disseminated effectively into what I call abundant intelligence. Because now you've got Sure. A lot of humanities Yeah. Intelligences going into a database or databases accessible to all means, you know, what effectively do you get paid for going forward? Yeah. What effectively, which, you know. We, we, we are taken into an organization or, you know, we offer services and products according to the scarce knowledge, the scarce intelligence that we bring and the service offerings and et cetera. And so that drives productivity with that sort of being that, say, democratized into, uh, right sort of open source. Uh, you know, that leaves, uh, the, the question like what, what is now valuable and what will I be paid for going forward? And a question not, you know, that I, that I, I sit with and many others, but something that should be really considered. And so, as one of the implications of, as I say, I'm a bit of a forward thinking. So I, I think in paradigms and what does this mean in terms of a new paradigm for me, one of the things that, uh, will now transpire that I think it is driving is greater levels of creativity. And so the quantum is like, how do you access new information? How does that come about from my perspective and my beliefs? It's like you access that from the universal source, the energy around you. Yeah, yeah. You know the quantum Yeah. Some people like you, you don't think of ideas, ideas come and find you kinda Exactly. Ideas come, come and find you. And so opening up your intelligence to new information, new information is gonna come through, um, the energy that surrounds us, the universe that surrounds us. And so learning how to really master and powerfully create and, and create, like consciously and deliberately directing your thoughts, uh, hence is the quantum reinvention and Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and ultimately most things that we really need still require, you know, energy to make it happen. Right? Absolutely. Like food building of shelter, uh, entertainment even. Um, a hundred percent. So I was, I, I was thinking earlier that the, I think it was the cult, uh, uh, pistol, uh, revolver that was called the Great Equalizer of Ben. Um, and I wonder is, is AI kind of an equalizer of people or is it an UNE equalizer more depending on whether you have access to it, which I guess was kind of the notion with, with being able to carry a pistol, but in the wild West, you know, you either didn't or you did. Right. And I guess that's kind of the same here. Are you carrying AI around in your holster or are you not? And which size is your ai? Well, of course in South Africa we've got diff different, um, application. Certainly your culture is nothing like the same, but, but similar, similar application. Uh, our guns is in South Africa, they are illegal. You can have a, what do you call it? Hunting, hunting gun or something, a certificate or whatever you call it. Like, you know, that's regulated, but, but. It's not rare. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But there's plenty of guns in South Africa, so, um, uh, they're not legal, but there's plenty of'em anyway. Exactly. Fair. Exactly. Only the bad guys have guns though. Oh, of course. Of course. We'll see. No, no, no, no, no. There's, yeah. No, there's, you, you, so there's plenty of registered legal weapons Yeah. As well. Yeah. There's plenty of registered legal weapons, but, uh, it's, uh, common, fair. Common. Yeah. Anyway, I digress. But to back to the question, is it a, is it a equalizer of men and women or is it an unequal, this tool? Um, I think there's going to be versions of both those truths that play out and, and multiple versions. Um, because let's say previous, if people have access to the internet, you can have access to, to, again, you know, something like ai, which gives you access. You can go and engage and ask for a PhD written paper, right. Or, or thesis to be written for your dissertation if you ask the right question. So, you know. That's going to give you so much more information. So AI can give you so much more information That, and resourcefulness that previously I wouldn't have even had to, I wouldn't have even, even thought to. Sure. So when I engage in it, you know, it opens up my own creative centers, centers in, in the context of my right brain because I'm engaging with it. It is pro sort of provoking and, and providing me with other ways to think about things in ways that I just wouldn't have even thought. And so then that takes me down another rabbit hole and I'm engaging it on in that rabbit hole. And so I'm learning the learning pathway of information that I wouldn't have even thought to engage in. I'm now engaging in Yeah. And getting equipped. So in that way, um, you know, there's just so much that, that I can personally do with it. And then at the same time. If you don't have access to it, you're disadvantaged. If you don't, it's like the financial system. Right. The best you can hope for is to be the, the brute strength for somebody that needs human labor. Exactly. Almost. Exactly. And so and the or. Yeah. I suppose I think, or, or I suppose nurses and things like that, there's gonna be human touch type and the human touch wouldn't of that hard to replace. Wouldn't, you know, I'm very clear that a AI is cept from human beings first and foremost. Sure. So, you know, we created it and, uh, going forward they'll do, they'll always be the human. Always, always be the human person engaging in ai. And AI cannot contextually think so what it leads to is, okay, logical left brain solution orientated. Anything where pattern recognition can be pretty easily identified.'cause it's primarily what, you know, one of the sources that it operates on. Um, what it can't do is. If you're asking it prompts, it's gonna a, it's gonna answer in the domains of those prompts, but it can't contextually Yeah. Bring things together. So, yeah. Yeah. What it stimulates, like when I do that, oh, you know what this is like, and it's totally different thing. Even like the cult versus the ai. A hundred percent. So it can't, it cant, sorry to interrupt you. Yeah, no. So it can't connect the dots. So it will help stimulate a lot of new thoughts that then the human is going to then be collecting the dots of, oh, okay, this is a potential solution. So I think it's also gonna promote a lot of solutioning as opposed to solving problems as se, I mean, it solves problems, but you start to realize that, oh. Like, there's just so many solutions out there. So many, yeah. Just opportunities to, well, what's interesting is, you know, I know there's a lot of different paid platforms for AI and stuff, but it, you know, it takes a lot of energy to spin all these things and all these queries and when you have it paint you a picture, it's even more energy and it's really not priced at consumption right now. Like gasoline, we gotta pay per gallon. Correct. Ai, you can have that thing be chewing on problems all day long for no good reason. A hundred percent if you wanted to. And it would just be like, you're just burning coal. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, it's like anything, you can go down rabbit holes and, and again, you know, they're still building it out, but the rate and pace at which has been built, I would say, you know, um, the idea of artificial super intelligence, that's probably already here. They're sort of saying in, you know, two or three years time, it's probably less because ai. Doubles its intelligence roughly every five to six months. Okay. And you can shorten that time. So I think currently the last time I checked these values, this was the end of last year. So may well have changed. Um, the intelligence of, of AI was at, I think it was like 1 52, which is roughly Elron. Musk. Musk, yeah. Yeah. I think, um, Albert Einstein is about 1 65 roughly. Um, so we would've surpassed those or started to surpass those certain, and then, you know, if you had to think then that doubles in six months, doubles in six months, doubles in six months, you know, pretty soon. 800. We're looking at like a thousand, I think it was in end of 20 26, 20 27. Oh wow. That's it. Like we can't even comprehend. Yeah. We can't comprehend that intelligence. So it does make you confront your own sense of value. And what, you know, when I look at this and you know, women's wealth transfers and there's different wealth transfers busy happening. You're looking at ai, digital assets. And so, you know, really working with people to say, okay, how do you position yourselves? What will be valuable of your business or what you're offering in the future and what will become available so that you can obviously capture the opportunities, create more value, kind of ultimately what is the new value? And I think what. What we're finding in the system, what I'm discovering in the system, and this has probably been for the last six months or so, I say to people, like, the system is stuck systemically. So in other words, people are not wanting to spend money, they're not sure what direction to go, and they're not sure what choices to make. You know, corporates are like grappling to, you know, what strategies do we follow? And then entrepreneurs are, so they're saying like, I just, I, I just don't know. I just don't know. Like, and like I'm just confused. So I Right. I call it like an if you, I dunno how y'all are swearing on this channels. Well, you can, you can see all the fucking beverage. Yeah, that's fine. And fuck your confusion. So I work with clients to like back their confusion. Oh yeah.'cause there's so much confusion and so much stuckness. Yeah. And my dad used to say, uh, I know sometimes you don't feel like you have enough information to, to make a decision, but make a decision. Make a decision. Yeah. Do it. And if you find out it's the wrong decision, then change your mind. You know? Exactly. Like, don't stand there, go. You gotta, you can't come up your butt. Yeah. Because, and, and I think what's driving that, what I've come to, to kind of conclude is that because these, these. Converging trends have already hit multiple of them. And I'm only talking about three or four. Yeah. But there's multiple energy. Be one of them. We've, yeah. Energy, climate and global, uh, trade. Hundred percent tariffs. Yeah. Trade, trade, yeah. And I, I've some statistics on how many ships are like either coming or going with, you know, one third or one half empty and things like that. Yeah. And that just doesn't happen, right? No, a hundred percent. I mean, it's, you know, so the world is changed and I think for so many decades we've been talking around, change is coming, change is coming, and no, the world has changed. Like it's changed. Significantly because of all these things coming in converging together at once. We haven't seen this before. We've seen one thing and then another thing, and you know, the onset of the internet or the onset of manufacturing or the information technology, but you've got these massive mega trends converging at once. They've already converged, they've caused change, and now you're getting like more of the mass adoption. And so where that lands me is why the system is stuck and confused is because we are now in new realities. We are now on new paradigm. We're already on a new reality. We're already on them. And so the nature of the first, we need to survey their landscape a little bit. Yeah. So the nature of the problems have changed, but people and clients don't know how their problems have changed. Yeah. And so they're trying to figure that out and no one's figured out that the nature of the problems have changed and actually. Well, there's gonna be new problems. And in fact, not even problems because problems create industries. Well, and y you and I had a great conversation with, with someone this morning, well before I arrived here, and he, he was just saying how it's like there are, you know, problems are an illusion created in your mind if you believe in the quantum. And so, you know, it's really about solutions. And so you can dismantle your problems, which are mindset and a particular context. And when you're creating an in with the quantum, you're collapsing problems and you are creating Well, but yeah, the problems kind have to be acknowledged to, to monetize the solutions though, right? Yeah, yeah. Like that's what companies do for the most part, is, is monetize a solution for somebody's problem. A hundred percent. And that's why I say one of the big paradigm shifts that's already happened is that the more and more people become conscious, and when you're more conscious, your ability, I mean. We could probably ask your audience and if there was, when you say conscious Yeah. What do you mean by that? Um, just a greater level of awareness. So an opening up to greater levels of, um, understanding of, of we are never gonna fully understand the human experience. Right. But it's just greater levels of awareness of your own divine nature. And so consciousness of your own divine true nature expressed through the human experiences, I'm gonna call it a spiritual orientation. Okay. A level of consciousness. And then with that various levels of awareness. And so you can be, for example, a classic example was Covid drove health consciousness. Oh, sure. So people have different levels of awareness now. Yep, yep. You know, it drove the great resignation and in part that was driven by, because I want a greater sense of purpose and meaning. Yeah. So you can say consciousness in summary is a very easy way of saying, Hey, I wanna give, you know, have greater sense purpose kinda instead of just, uh, non-player character. They, as they say on the Twitter, actually having intentional, intentional, um, actions and awareness of reactions and hundred exactly like a intentional navigation of life instead of just, I go to work starting when I'm 20 and then I retire when I'm 62 and I have a few kids and do stuff. But, and that's the way it is now. There's this, you know, if you believe your thoughts create your reality, that's being conscious. Yeah. Okay. So, and constantly just waking up, you can call it waking up, you can call it, oh, I'm becoming aware of this. Oh, I'm becoming aware of like, energy. Right. Well, and, and what's cool and partly AI powered is, you know, anytime I want to, I can push the little GR button and be like, can you tell me more about, you know, the war of 1812? Uh, what are some of the controversies around how that started for specifically a hundred percent. And I can just know in the, in the, and I can say, give it to me in two paragraphs or 10 paragraphs or whatever I want. Now you see, and that, that's a great example because there, for example, let's say you wanted to take that really seriously. You would've gone to, you know, a course university, you know, sit and listen to someone who's disseminating that knowledge. Sure. That's why I say the knowledge dissemination just like that is disseminated. Right. Well, and, and like, like I've been thinking about like business books and like AI has read every business book ever written, and for the most part, a lot of them are resonant for the last 60 years. You know, there's some new stuff here and there, you know, it starts with why, but mostly it's just kind of a recycling through of kind of a lot of the ideas we've been talking about in the past and, and freshening of them perhaps. Um, but there isn't necessarily new stuff that comes from that then is it just a dulling down and, and an averaging of ideas, you know, and is. Like a really good business book that's focused, is that gonna be better than, um, an AI created tool on the same specific topic? I, I don't know. I'm not sure there is. Does it get blurry? You know, does the, does does the reality of the AI just get blurred out or the, the, the brilliance of the humans? I would hope that the brilliance, and again, it's going to the brilliance of this is my, what I would hope for, because like I say, I think it's gonna really stimulate. And encourage people to think number one deeply about things. So there's going, I believe, I feel my senses, and again, there is so much, there is unknown and uncertainty because we haven't been in this territory. And if we only just kind of stepping into new paradigms, we don't know the paradigms yet. So there would be a lot of uncertainty, the ability of humans to think deeply about topics. And I think you're gonna start seeing what we used to call in the corporate space, TT type, um, employees and T type employees. You had like, um, you know, where the, the T goes across. You have a more narrowed scope of in-depth, uh, skillset, in-depth capability. So you're very deep into a topic Yeah. As the tea drops down, but you very narrowed in your sphere of, of specialization. So I feel like there's going to be a more deepening into the specialization and truly exploring the truth about a particular topic or the truth and digging and digging and digging to expand and grow on it. And so I think there's, there's definitely opportunity for, I'd say more, um, you know, for humans to, to. To definitely play a part in a more, um, brilliance coming through. I think. And when I say for example, creativity, that's exactly what I mean, to come into a greater sense of knowing about the truth of who you are and your own brilliance and your ability to be brilliant should you wish to engage with a tool. AI is just a tool. How you drive it, how you shape it, the questions, there's a huge, huge Sure. Uh, impact on, on what it can deliver. And again, it's never going to be able to contextually connect the dots. It's never gonna be able to have human connection. It's never gonna have a soul or con it's going to have, and this is up for discussion, but you know, versions of consciousness. And so when, when humans are in a room together and sitting around having a conversation like this, like our energies and our thought waves and our thought processes are feeding off each other. And so it's like escalating. Yeah. Yeah. And multiplies of more people if it's, and multiply, structured multiplies effect. And so I want to challenge that notion of. I've, I've almost been feeling like, um, corporations have been looking for increased specialization from their employees, kind of to employees detriments.'cause like even right now, like software engineers, uh, people that write code and stuff, the last 10 years have had it going great'cause they've been in super high demand, short enough supply. We're like trying to open up the valves from, for Indian programmers and stuff so we can do this stuff. And now AI is like a really fast programmer and you need probably, I'm guessing that the job market is not good. So now all these people that specialize in software programming are having a harder time unless they're putting that tool in the belt. Um, and, and then what I was looking on my phone for is a book I read, uh, listened to a couple years ago, uh, range by David Epstein. And it's kind of like why generalists, uh, will win in the future. And, and, and to your point of context, like. I wonder if being able to to dig deep enough but then tie those different quadrants and stuff together is also still valuable. I'm not saying it's not, it's not invaluable. I think if you're too much of a gen generalist, just generally, yeah, you're good at a lot of things and I don't think there's going to be, um, if you're good at a lot, a lot of things and you're wanting to go somewhere in life and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's gonna be hard. It's gonna be harder because, or you gotta start a company. What's that? Are you gonna start a company? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So, and so I, I think what you're saying, you know, would probably resonate with me is that you still have to have enough generalist knowledge to connect the dots. You have to, you can't not be, I was chatting to a leader the other day and I was just saying to her, leaders have gotta take time. And entrepreneurs, in fact, every individual needs to take time to think deeply about. What my contribution is going to be in the future. What will AI not, uh, we call, you know, zap, I don't dunno, in, in the states, but you know, we'll refer to things being zapped in, in South Africa. Mm. What won't, won't in your business be zapped? What, what are the, what are the problems if you have to really start thinking about it and thinking about it intelligently is like, think about what are the problems that your current clients, what are they going to have in five years time? Sure. So, good way to think about that. If I'm talking to a client, I say to them, okay, tell me who are your clients in five years time? What's the demographic? Help me understand that now that's level one thinking. And that would be, you know, I think a lot of people are just doing that. Piece of exploration. My clients are X, Y, and Z. I'm saying, okay, now if you were talking to Harley a while back, they'd be like, oh no. Anyway, um, and then the next question I ask them is say, okay, if these are your clients and the demographics and you put it clear on that, that's great. And you're, you're now sort of catering to their needs and providing to their needs. And you, you kind of strategizing starting, they're gonna be exactly, and you, et cetera. But now I want you to think about this. So take it a step further. So if your client's demographics are this in five years time, then what is shaping their life? What are the things that are shaping their life? What is influencing them? What are, what's impacting them? Because you've gotta be able to contextually think like that and then start to backward engineer and re-engineer to say, okay. If these things and AI, such a significant impact on their life and the likes of whatever, whether it's digital assets or whether it's um, you know, digital currencies. Yeah, digital currencies or trade tariffs or what. And some of we don't even know, okay, so now what are you trying to solve for, for them? Because you gotta have that leap ahead to be able to, to then backward engineer and then start to design products and services for that lens. So it's not, not for me, it's not enough just to say, my clients are X, Y, and Z. You have to start understanding, well what are the things that are impacting them significantly in five years time?'cause that's, if you can set yourself up for that. And it's not even five years, like I said, artificial intelligence. Yeah, I think three years intelligence, I was probably start moving now. I honestly believe that even now, if people are not spending time deeply thinking about it and touching and engaging, you can't touch and engage everything but one or two important of these mega trends and get familiar to really understand how they're shaping. Industries, it's something to, to really pay attention to in three years time. If you're waking up, the train's gone. You've already missed the train's gone. Yeah. It's like now it's, you gotta be engaging. Now, um, I wanted to zoom back to, uh, let's just talk about like maybe the, maybe we have been talking about what you're doing at the Center of Liberation. Mm mm Or is that kind of a little adjacent, or is that specifically a focused organization? I, you know, if I was a good podcaster, I would've went into your website and snooped it out, read your mission statement and stuff. But I like going in fresh. Tell me about that. Get, get, get it, get it straight from the horse's mouth. Exactly. Say, I like the way you, I I like you the way you roll. I don't wanna corrupt my conversation with prior knowledge. Come on. No, no. So Center of Liberation is what I believe firmly is around liberating, um, very much heart led, heart centered organizations, leaders into the new era with very practical delivery. Okay. So this is not about, uh, just all woo woo and, uh, all this is a kind of those conscious people. Conscious, yeah. If you're one of those conscious and increasingly conscious people and you're leading people, you, you're wanting something different, you, you have a sense that, that things need to change. You have a sense that you would like things to change in the context of how life has been experienced. And so what is that sort of new organization or, or you leading a team, you're an entrepreneur and you've got a team and you know, how do you kind of set that up and heart led living? Heart base living is one of the, the, you know, subsequent. Principles, if you'll, of principles of, uh, becoming more conscious, just becoming more open-hearted, becoming like kinder, more generous, more cooperative, um, more synchronistic, more expansive, not just for one, but for the all. So I think, you know, for, for people that resonate with the sort of concept of tired of competition, tired of the individualism, tired of the, the separation and the fear and, and how do we create ecosystems? You're seeing ecosystems pop up all over the place, but how you really create ecosystems where most benefit and not just one or a few. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, and then how do you really set yourself? So center of liberation is liberating the next. Era of, or not even the era'cause it's now, but it's the next category of leadership and the next category of businesses. And how do you set your businesses up to remain fruit fruitful, expansive, um, profitable, importantly, and not just for you, but for your, you know, your staff, your employees, your, your business. Because things are have changed so quickly. And where do those profitability pools sit whilst doing it at a conscious level, whilst bringing in more creativity? How do you unlock creativity? How do you actually become a leadership team who is ready to be leading edge, to create your realities at the executive table and very much liberate, um, you know, prosperity and abundance, uh, which sits at the heart of, for me, um, with something like ai, human beings will be confronted with their value. Yeah. Is it gonna make us. R richer, happier, and better connected? Or is it gonna separate us further? Yeah, and I think, and I think there's an opportunity for the former, for sure, a hundred percent. And I think, I think the biggest human travesty is that so many people undervalue themselves and their skills and their abilities and dunno how to monetize it or, you know, if I lose my job or if it's this. And so, you know, this process of fear based, uh, based, fear based. And so, you know, and that's just rubbish. It's like, but at the same time, you will never be wealthy, prosperous, abundance if you've bought into the scar of tea and the fear. Um, and the separation because if you're not wealthy within, you cannot hold the next level of wealth that's coming in whatever way, shape or form. And, and so, so I guess this is kind of your, you escape from corporate banking realm and you're, you're starting a movement, if you will, and this is a training center grounds consultancy for that movement. Is that the right way to understand it? There's a movement on the cards and I've got some exciting prospects coming through, uh, probably in the new year or towards the end of the year, which, um, I won't share just yet. But a very, very exciting to do with the wealth transfer, the women's wealth transfer and the events while, yeah, I wrote that down to talk about coming through. Talk about the women's wealth transfer. That's kind of because. The, the world has changed and, and the boomers are gonna die and, uh, their, their living kids are ladies. Is that kind of what's going on? Or what, what are we talking about here? Or just the fact that women are earning so much and being college graduates and, yeah. So all that, so much more, yeah, changing names. Think about it like this, and I, I heard a great analogy and unfortunately I can't remember the, the person, so this is not, not originally from me and I'm gonna try and summarize as best I can. Um, but think about it like a, a bird and just like a bird has got, you know, two wings and when it's functioning beautifully, the wings are both working and, and balancing the bird and, you know, flapping, et cetera. Yeah. It just works. We're exposed to, at the moment, the, and I don't, it's not about being, um, man or woman. Well, I talk masculine and feminine energies. So energetically, the masculine is very, so the left wing is very well established, logical, left brain, um, analytical, that sort of masculine sort of, um, containers and structures and infrastructure and, um, those kind of things is like the masculine energy, the feminine energy, the wisdom, energy, the intuitive energy, the, the downloads, the intuits, the nudges, the synchronistic that's not well developed. So the bird is flying, but it's flying with an underdeveloped right wing. And so if you think about it, all that's happening now is an equalization of the wing so it can fly better. And that's humanity. That the, there's an e equalization of the masculine and feminine energy. So one of the things, the natural evolutions is the, you know, obviously with a lot more women getting to different levels and organizations and different levels of education and all of that kind of stuff. Um. There, there will be a 30 trillion wealth transfer over the next decade. It's already started, but it's, you know, small, small numbers. Sure. So$30 trillion heading into the hands of women. So for the first time in human history, women's will, not all women.'cause there's, uh, you know, there's a lot to this, I'm giving sure I'm giving the cliff notes, but, um, women have have the opportunity to hold more personal income than males in some instances. Then there is another wealth transfer to, because baby boomers are, are, are passing. And so where does that inheritance go? You know, to, to the, obviously their kids and that kind of stuff. They're living kids. Uh, and then you're looking at, and ladies live longer, tend to millennials as well, who just, you know, they, they passed the stage now of paying off, uh, debt or, you know, some of them are still paying off homes, but your education, so they're coming into more wealth. So, but this woman's wealth transfer is, is a really big deal because when there's more power, there's more, uh, sorry. When there's more, more money for someone, there's a. There's this reshaping of the power structures, and it doesn't have to be negative. It's not about something negative and conflictual and whatever. It just means that you don't have to beat the men down to establish equality. You don't. It's about beating men. It's just that women make decisions differently. We operate differently. So the way that we are spending habits are different. Where we spend is different. What we think about is different. And so there will be certain industries that benefit more than others. So for example, you know, health industries, women are super, not, not to say men aren't, but like there's just a lot of beneficiaries in the health industry. For example, the financial industry will benefit significantly. You know, you'll have more women sort of taking ownership of, um, how decisions, financial decisions are made, where typically, like it's just been left to the, the guy, the male, to like figure things out. It's just like there's a lot of, um, unconscious biases, um, associated with it. So, you know. Coming from South Africa and seeing my wife takes care of all the money. I Well, good for, good for you. Yeah. Best I can. Yeah. Well, she spends most of it too. Does a good job of both. Just kidding. Exactly. Um, but I don't know. I, I'm not, I'm, yes, I think that's true, that there's definitely more personal income being generated by women and there's definitely more single households. Yes. You know, there's, there's, and I'm not sure that's for the good of humanity necessarily. I almost think of, of a, without, you know, insulting your relationship or anybody else's. Like a bird is kind of a man and a woman together and that's why they fly. Good. And if you can have those. Powers and wings, uh, relatively equal, but the household still needs a leader. And I think that tends to be better when it's the man. Mm-hmm. Um, and we can argue about that. Uh, that might be fine. Yeah, that good argue. Um, but I look at it more of a, as a, as a, as a whole being when it's united, uh, kind of realm. And even if it's a pair of ladies or a pair of men, even for that matter, a hundred percent. Um, like people are just not good at being alone as a household, especially, you know, for years. Yeah, no, it is about United and that's why I say it's, it's a masculine and feminine energy. It's the yin and yang and bringing that together and whatever the actual structure looks like. Um, but bringing those energies, like where are your brilliant strengths? And you just go and do it. And if your wife's doing the, the finances, I love it. But like that's her natural and coming together until you're going, you know, being able to unify more harmoniously in, in, in those dimensions is really Yeah. Fair. Really the opportunity. Well, that's why, uh, at Loco here, we've been studying for years now, this, uh, hallow relational intelligence. Uh, it's a Brazilian platform that is like disc, but way better. I love it. And, uh, and it really helps different types of thinkers understand and respect one another and, and kind of relate better. And, uh, appreciate the differentness. Definitely, definitely. Um, and that can happen, you know, I think both with masculine feminine in and also with that details versus ideas and all that kind of stuff. Definitely. One thing about the, uh, women's wealth transfer thing is when you, you know, when you look at a list of the world's 50 richest people, you know, it's definitely dominated by, by men. And when there's women on there, which we have one in Fort Collins here with in Pat Stryker, almost always they inherited it or got it in a divorce. There haven't been very many women that created huge wealth over the course of history. Mm-hmm. And I wonder, is that because of the less competitiveness, like men wanna win by creating the biggest pile of money? Mm. Or is it some, you know, is it just that men have always controlled more of the wealth? Mm. And so they've had more opportunities to create wealth. I, I wonder because some of those men came from no money either. Right? A lot of'em. Mm. Even. I think it's a function and there's so many different ways. So I'm gonna give again just a perspective, but there's many perspectives that would, would build this story and narrative and, and you know, everybody's gonna have a different perspective. But if you historically look at it, and I think it was, it was here only in 1974, I think could, a woman could get a, a credit card or checkbook. I can't remember the exact stats. I'm not as familiar, uh, currently with, with America's history as I am with South Africa's. But even in South Africa, it's like way back. I don't know. You know, my mom couldn't like, get a a, she wouldn't be able to get a bond or a mortgage on her own. Hmm. And so just, and then if you think about, you know, typically just the, the bias towards it. Say, you know, I look at my, my parents, how many. How many more opportunities were like male doctors or, you know, professors or the system systemically was just set up that Sure. Generally, males got into the height. The country club was the country club club. Boys, boys only for a long time. Boys only club. The golf clubs boys only, you know, it was just set up that, that, you know, historically there were just sort of, uh, I wanna say advantages to being male in the context of what was available. And so, so, you know, that's, I wonder, I wonder how that'll play out. Like, even as women have gathered, I feel like maybe it's good for men to, to push up against each other and sharpen each other even out, you know, while in leadership of their households. I don't know. Mm. Um, we'll see, we'll see how that plays out, but I'm not. Certain it's gonna be for the better. Um, not because men are smarter than women necessarily, but we are less moved by emotion. You are definitely. Um, and you know, so I think not to get, like we've been in a world of propaganda the last, uh, well OB observably for the last several years, you know? Yeah. At least starting in 2020. And the malleability of feelings when confronted with propaganda makes me fear for a world where women actually control too many of the, the resources in the companies and the households. I don't know. Uh, especially if there's a government full of no good, which seems like most of them are, uh, at least to some extent. And I think there's, I think it's just integration. You know, how does one get the natural integration of, uh, energies, of dynamics of decision making and have that integrated, you talk about unity, like that integrated whole, right? Yeah. That considers the all, and that's, that's not to say that it's just women, or it's just men. The world's gonna operate best when these worlds are integrated. When they together. I was just thinking about like a AI that's made for marriage counseling and you know, that, that, like my wife could talk to, you know, after she was annoyed with me because I, you know, drank too much and snored and kept her awake half the night or something like that. And like that, she could talk to that AI and it could talk to us and we could be like, well, hey Kurt, you know, maybe you should. Take Jill, uh, for lunch on Wednesday because she doesn't have anything going on that day and she would really appreciate a little surprise date. Well, you can go or whatever, right? Or Absolutely. I mean, you can, you don't even have to, it's not even, you know, virtual assistance or, uh, so you can have it in your car giving you a bit of a counseling session Sure. As you going on your next drive. And, and it'll give, I'm sure, give you a lot of, uh, uh, but AI would struggle with context. It struggles with context, right. It's only gonna ever gonna be, it's, I think I just keep saying to people, it's only a tool. It's only a tool. The original inception, the original idea is the way that you prompted, the way that you engage with it is so, so well in a really good therapist or counselor has been through some stuff, or at least they can actually empathize, not just like. Read a bunch of books about empathy, a hundred percent. Like you and I are sitting here together, we can see each other where there's body language, there's movement, there's like a, there's an intuiting. There's a sense making you witnessing and, and you know, AI's just never going to get, never gonna do that. It's never gonna yeahinteresting. Uh, so what would you like to see develop out of the center for of Liberation? Mm, so definitely just a more, uh, you know, I'll call it a more conscious movement in, in the orientation of business and leadership and, um, how do we move forward in, into a world that is more generally more caring, um, and more like enhancing and uplifting. I think it always surprised me, um, and sustainability. When I say sustainability before I go into what surprised me, there's many things that surprise me. But, uh, you know, I think the sustainability people are so fearful and I. Around their wellbeing, their finances, will they be all right? Like, I think there's such a, there's such a fear around like not having, and so creating opportunities where businesses continue to thrive and don't get scared. This is not about don't, don't collapse, don't give up, don't shut down. But you have to be on top of what now adds value and continues to create value. And, and that's going to be a figuring out for all of us. So really sense of liberation is about supporting entrepreneurs or supporting businesses to make sense of the current world and then to reinvent and to be comfortable, to continuously reinvent, to be creating value for others and to staying, staying on top of it. And I think, you know, one of the things that would surprise me when I was sitting around the leadership tables and executive tables is always like found it surprising that we would always be hitting numbers and targets and plenty, plenty of billions of dollars, you know, revenue or profit. And at nearly the end of every conversation or after the, the financial feedback was like, okay, but now we've got headwinds and so where are we gonna cut costs? And who are we gonna cut and where can we see, you know, there's this conversation of mindset. On the one hand you like, there's, but then right in the next sentence it's like, where do we cut? And there's not enough and there's not enough. And like it's headwinds and it's, those worlds don't come together. And so you know that people can actually just thrive and to dismantle the scarcity and be proactive in terms of sustainability. Sustaining your businesses, sustaining your profitability, profitability pools, thinking smartly and cleverly to be able to set up, have more time. Uh, uh, I wanna say with more ease. There's just so much like. Constriction and fear and rushing and busy and like hustling and, you know, yeah. The American experience especially, I don't know if, oh no. Johannesburg full on. Also the same, full on all, you know, all night, you email whatever, emailing, getting up early, it's just like, whew. So Steady hustle. Whew. So, so Center of Liberation is just like liberating, more freedom and ease in the way that we do business sustainability and, and supporting individuals, small businesses, you know, leadership teams to grow, be less fearful, and to, to really like, make sense of, of what's happening and how they set themselves. And is this a, a, a solo. Practice right now. And do you have imaginations of adding more people to it or is there more, more of you out there in the center? Is it a, is it a digital center with multiple people in there? Um, it'll become more digital and like I say, I've got a, a couple of great prospects on the horizon to cr to expand it quite significantly. Okay. Um, and so really hoping to, to have a, and kind of a bit of a formalized offering kind of, uh, yeah. I'm, if you, I'm working with, with, with individuals and some, and, you know, clients still in Southco and across the globe leaders and stuff like that. So I've got like, uh, you know, always looking to expand and especially since I've arrived here and sort of really accepted the business. So, um, it's been going for the last year and a half since I arrived here. Yeah. But definitely, you know, I've got, got plans to expand it and to bring more people on and then to create more of like both figuratively and literally like a center where we will, we will work. In different realms and with different levels of, let's say leadership development, leadership capability. Um, you know, I run various courses and programs in person boot camps, different things. Yeah. And just, just online as well. But they're mostly like, you know, I do a lot of strategy work for, for both entrepreneurs and businesses and leaders. Um, and then bring in and blend in, well how do you move the culture? How, you know, how do you, how do you evolve the culture in order to make sure that you're, you're marrying up those worlds, uh, to deliver value. Okay. Yeah. Um, I wanna call a quick break. Yes. And then we will come back and talk more about South Africa, where you've been Yeah. F fantastic. Your life journey. Amazing. Alright. And we're back. So how'd you enjoy that bathroom break? So good. Your bathroom is fucking amazing. Thank you. It's pretty clean. You know that, that's a great, I trying to, especially the way that, that that flashes, well, the handle fell off the other day and when I put it back together, I couldn't figure out how to make the flesher go right. But I figured out how to make it go backwards. So I was like, well, could, well, there you, you go. You see how I mean, and most people figure it out. We haven't even had any questions. No. It's like, okay, well, that this way's not working. It's gotta be another way. Yeah. Like you need a, you know, you need to Perfect. Put a little signpost there. You know, when you come into a door, it says push or pull, just in, uh, arches National Park, uh, there's a sign in the, in the restrooms there that says, like, uh, number one, sit on the toilet to use Ah, uh, which I, I read this sign while I was standing in front of the toilet.'cause that's where the sign is. And then, uh, do not stand on the toilet. Um, uh. Uh, use the toilet, not the floor. It was all these like dumb rules. Oh. Anyway, I digress. Yeah, I thought it was one of those, uh, okay. This is one of those trick things and he's, he's deliberately let me go first.'cause now he's enjoying like, me trying to figure out that of flesh. Yeah. Even I'll watch the footage later. It's really fun. Just kidding. No footage in there. Um, so I've been, one of the reasons I wanted to have you on is because, like I've been interested in South Africa for a long time. Yes. And I mentioned when we had coffee that my, my, my brother actually employs three Yes. Young men from South Africa on his farm, or my dad and brother do, I guess. Um, and so. You're not probably as old as I am, but you're, you're getting up there. So probably were very close. Take me back to the, the, your earliest days, uh, of your 50 several in, in South Africa. Like what was your family environment? What, what was, did you have siblings? What were your parents doing for work? Like, take me to first grade or you're equivalent and Wow, I love it. Yeah. It would be first grade. So we go to, back then we went to school at, uh, six and, uh, six years old. Okay. Six years old now. I think kids are going, you get preschool. I don't know what it is here, but it's like three or four people already, uh, sending their kids to some kind of, um, yeah, some kind of organized activities. So yeah. Thank you so much. And, uh, the real trip down memory lane. So great to, great to devil into the space. Um. Parents, teachers, dad was a headmaster. Is they're both still alive. They live in a, in a headmaster. So like a private school setting? Private school. Okay. Well back out. Our education system changed, uh, quite a lot once Mandela was released, so. Okay. Um, so it was public school and public schooling back then was really. Like private schooling. So he was a headmaster at school. Okay. And, uh, mom was a teacher, pri uh, primary school teacher. Okay. Um, and yeah, my early days it was, it was really interesting. I mean, just you No siblings. Two older sisters. Okay. They both live in Australia. Very common for South Africans to, uh, is it to, to, they talk kind of funny over there too, so it's easier. Yeah. Well, and to, to leave. So it's, but Australia's got a lot of South Africans. Oh, I wouldn't have known that. Yeah. Lots, lots and lots of s So your siblings have, have moved on. So my siblings live there. My eldest sister's been there for I maybe 30 years. My middle sister, I'm the youngest of three, uh, probably about 10 or 12 years. Okay. So, um. So my, my three sisters, I was the youngest one. You were in Johannesburg, which is in Johannesburg, big city already back then, I guess. Or how, how big a city is it? So, sure. Johannesburg, you know, south African fit, I think can fit in California. I'll just say that America is like huge, right? I strongly recommend for anybody, uh, yeah, it's an adventure. Number one. Just, you know, go to South Korea, but secondly move countries. It's, uh, a significant, uh, yeah. Uh, transformative experience. Um, but Johannesburg is probably, um, it's probably like a Denver Okay. Sort of, you know, bit bigger, bigger than Denver. Over a million with the whole thing. Yeah. Plenty. Plenty. Yeah. Well over a million people. Okay. Um, and so you're looking at, um. Sure. It was like, you know, I just remember being sort of super free. I was always on my bicycle or doing something with friends. Okay. So kind free, free range. Free range kids in those days, free range kids. And, you know, I was too young to really know too much or understand too much about apartheid. Like I just, like, I knew of this thing, but it wasn't really super impactful. Like when you say public school, was it like public school for everybody? As long as you're white, kind of, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, so what it looked like was apartheid was like you, you would have, well, uh, we call them house managers, house workers. So similar to you guys. Clean your house cleaners here. Sure. So that was really like my only interaction. We had this house cleaner and her name was Andika. Absolutely loved her. She brought me up, you know, my folks were aren't teaching. Yeah. Part of your family. Part of my family. And she. Um, and so that was, it remained super common, but yeah, like in, like it wasn't, you didn't, there were no black people, the first black person to come into our school. My high school was, I was 13 or 14, but I didn't really know any different, you know, it was just like, that's just the way it was. Were they not like mixing on the streets of Johannesburg and stuff and delivering the They were absolutely the stuff to the grocery stores. Absolutely. Andies and whatever. Yeah. So, but it was just like, um, it wasn't a big presence in those days. They had to have what they called, it's almost like a, you know, your vaccine booklet, but, uh, I can't remember. Like a pass almost some sorts. Yeah. So they had to live in certain areas and had Oh, to kind of be in the white man areas. You had to kinda Interesting. So, so there was a lot of segregation like that, which again, I didn't understand as a kid. And so they weren't at when I was in primary school. And like, I only in my second year at high school did we have our first black person coming in, and then they. When Manta came out, um, got released from prison, obviously so much changed. So the whole, the whole system did changed. Did he get swept into power almost immediately or the release almost immediate. Some prison was almost an acknowledgement that things were gonna change now or, yeah, and I mean, that was very And when was this? It's been, been in, I remember it, but yeah, 94 he was actually released, but there was a significant buildup. So the tensions in the country prior to his release were, were like significant, obviously the uprisings and um, you know, sort of really wanting a sense of freedom, his release, but black people wanting a sense of freedom and, and just for things to change. Yeah, yeah. You know, the government was changing and so there was a lot of, um, sort of, uh, which wasn't very public. Now, again, going back then in 94 I was when he was actually released. But the buildup, you know, I was going through 16, 17, 18. Sure. Okay. Years old. So I was understanding it. But it was a lot to try and comprehend what was actually going on. But there was a lot of tension. There was a lot of like conflict. There was a lot, there was big concern about civil war. And you know, I remember my younger years, like I said, was playing on the road, riding my bike, being amongst people. But there's always, there's like, be careful, be careful. There was a lot of anger in the system. Mm-hmm. And understandably. Um, you know, and over the years there were just more bars and more walls being put up and more security being put put up. And more concern for, um, for one's safety. Safety, especially for by lady, the uprising of, of anger and frustration and, you know, I can understand that and wanting change. And so, you know, just prior to, to Mandela being released, it had significantly escalated. You know, it was, there was a lot of violence and a lot of, yeah. Uh, it was uncomfortable. I remember, I don't know, I wonder if this is, if this is accurate, but I remember being really swayed by Mandela's. Talks and position and values. Hmm. And, and even as he tried to make reforms after a release and stuff, it was very positive. And then it felt to me as an outsider looking in that he got influenced by power and kind of corrupted by Marxism kind of tendencies and things, and really kind of let it go sideways after. Not'cause he was the ruler of the country after not too long Right after that, or many years later. Yeah. No, no, no. But it felt like, he felt like he started strong and then like a lot of people when they go to Washington, DC turned into a, you know, a government stooge again, that was, you know, hooking up the insiders and punishing the outsiders. Yeah. You know, I think, I think his, his leadership, uh, was for me very. A lot of positives. There was a lot, a lot of positives for me. I feel like the country, unfortunately, for me personally, I feel like the leader subsequent to, to Mandel, it was later he did a good job. But he was, I feel like he did a great job. His leadership was, was as to as far an extent that he could do, you know, obviously he would've been hard to change a big system. Yeah. Super. There was so much to fix, like Trump in his first term, so much to fix, you know? Yeah. And, and just to calm the country. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like he did a phenomenal job just to, to calm the country and what he did to prevent, you know, sort of civil war and civil outbreaks because, you know, black people were super angry and, and you know, it's sad because these systems are implemented and, you know, I'm coming up as a 17, 18, 19-year-old. I had no choice in terms of Right. The system did the education that you got versus somebody else. So angry with me personally, you know? Sure. And um, uh, and so I feel like, you know. There was so much, and this again is only my personal perspective and, and I can only give my personal perspective. It's complex, very complex topic. Um, but there was so much possibility. And, and I do feel there was a, a good period of, um, 6, 7, 8 years where it was very upbeat. And even on the, I think on the world stage, you know, it was very promising. And unfortunately as he got on in years, and I would say, you know, unfortunate for me the experience of the next level of leaders coming in, that's where a lot of corruption started coming in. And that was noticeable and, and devastating. I mean, is the devastating for the country is the average black person better off now than they were PREA apartheid? Mm.'cause the economy in South Africa has kind of had a steady decline over the last Yeah, it's been tough decade or 15 years. It's um, I think so much mismanaged funds. And, you know, there's so much cultural influence. I think there's, you know, we've got like 11 languages. I can't even speak. Oh, really? Can speak. I can speak English obviously. And, and, uh, I can understand Afrikaans and speak. Are you speak English? Yeah. Imagine that. Yeah. Tell me what Ahan sounds like. It's kind the key Afrikaans part. Uh, may, it's been so long now, I haven't been around Africans for so long, so, and that's like Dutch who can't, it's a bit of a mix like on Dutch. Yeah. A bit of a twitch twist on Dutch and a bit of, we've got quite a lot of Dutch influence. Yeah. I thought so. Okay. Yeah. Oh yeah, definitely. Sounds Dutch. Kind of my ear. And I don't, I don't have a very, I've got more of like a softer, um, eng English orientated accent, so I can't always get into the Yeah, fair enough. So, um, you know, it's very, very multi multicultural and very strong and steeped in, and the different cultures, even amongst the black, uh, people have very different ways of operating. So I was listening to a podcast about that. Mm. Uh, a while back actually. Mm. And there was like, uh, an indigenous tribe. South Africa wasn't very heavily populated when the white people got there. Yeah, no, there was a little bit of tribal activity. Yes. But it wasn't like the big, um, Congolese tribes and the Zulus and some of the others, but then some of the northern tribes like pushed down and the founding of the country really. Kind of solidified when the, the whites and some of the indigenous blacks pushed back against the tribal blacks. Yes. Yeah. Uh, more, which I had no idea that story was part of the founding. Yeah. So very, I mean, it's rich, rich, rich with, uh, with story and heritage and history and, um, like to so many different dimensions and facets to it. So, um, you know, when you ask the question, what do I think are, you know, the economy's unfortunately declined. It's, has been, um, I think just so much unfortunate, unfortunate, um, you know, corruption of funds and misuse of funds. Uh, we sit, I think when I left we were sitting with an unemployment rate of about 40%. 40. Yeah. So, wow. Huge. You know, and it's, and unfortunately, you know, for me, I feel like the black population, uh, did not benefit. You know, small pockets of populations, some of them, the corrupted ones. Yeah, some. Some of them definitely. And you know, obviously you had a lot of, we had various systems put in place a. B. E. E Broadbased Black economic Empowerment was a government driven system. Mm-hmm. So, so black people came into organizations and a lot of effort and money went into obviously education and,'cause that's at the heart of it is the Sure. The lack of education. Yeah. How can you ask somebody to step up and be a leader of a company? So, a hundred percent. So for so many years, years, black people had didn't have access to high quality education or no education. And so, you know, that takes decades to unwind. Yeah. And our education system for me, you know, we, we obviously the school system changed and there were a lot of private schools, but now you still got inequality in the context of like wealth and being able to attend schools and, you know, you've obviously got, got people going through universities at different levels and so definitely, yeah. You know, a lot more, um, equalization of blacks coming into companies and then building up and Yeah. You know, and there's been a lot of success stories as well, a lot of success stories and incr like, I mean, my colleagues, I just love the stories. Oh my gosh. The stories of, of some of my co, plenty of my colleagues were just like. Wow. What you had to go through to get here. You just, just, and you're talking about your colleagues at the bank. Yeah, my colleagues at, at the bank. People like pushed through. Yeah. And story after story and after story. And just the spirit of like, you know, so many things would just, would take for granted, you know? Sure. I, to every now and again, walk to school and, and, you know, walk up the road and walk down the road. But like, you know, and these guys at, at the young, young ages, they were walking like miles just to get to school miles and no shoes and hardly any lunch. And they would be up on the, the farms like farming first and they had their chores to do and then walk miles and miles. But I'm talking like two hours to get to school, two hours to get back. And then they look after their brothers and sisters, right. Because they, you know, their parents had come to Johannesburg 16 hour days, uh, seven days a week kind of thing. Incredible. And incredible stories. Incredible stories. So, um, you know, so much good, like, so, so much good. Like, I mean, I'm, I, the people, it's very real. Culture. It's a very real, yeah, people are very real. Like we've, we've been through a lot as a, you know, as a nation Yeah. As a country. And is there a united individuals nation feeling they, can they be it better? Like right now in the United States, we're like kind of divided as much as I've seen in a lot of ways between the, you know, Trump's great Trump's Hitler camps, um, uh, you know, with a few Inbetweeners and they're not sure. Yeah. Uh, and, uh, but is it that, uh, vivid of a, uh, is, is there still headbutting between the black communities and the white communities, or there's a lot more relationships than one would think and they're more for South Africa? Or where, where is that setting now? I know you've been gone now a couple years. I don't know. Yeah, yeah. So, so I think, you know, obviously I think, and Covid might have been tougher. Right.'cause I remember South Africa got kind of thrown under the bus for some stuff early. I think we get thrown out. I think we, we get thrown under the bus. I don't remember what that was of context, but I remember they got screwed by the international kind of scene there. Yeah. All the, the variations came from Oh, the varis. Yeah.'cause you guys were, varis came from not vaccinated enough or something. We, we, we sit somewhere in the corner of the world and the variants come. Um, you know, I think, uh, I would say it ebbs and flows and, um, I would say. The majority of people, black, white, Indian, doesn't really matter matter what, what color they want piece. They want a break. So for 80% of people, they don't care. They want a break. They just want, want good, they want a bit of a break and they, they want piece and they like, can things just be better? Yeah. You know, can, can things just get better and can things be better? And we're a country that will very easily get united. So when there's real, when the chips are down. So in Covid it was, you know, a lot of unity. A lot of unity, a lot of sorting out when things need to get sorted out. You'll see the. Everyone comes together and sorts it out, you know? Yeah. We would sit for, um, you know, for 10 years and I, I know there's power outages that can happen here and, you know, around the world. And I think there was huge internet art outages, uh, across the globe. Yeah. Yesterday, for example. But South Africa, it's like, you know, you so we're so innovative. We're, we're a nation and a, a population that is just incredibly, incredibly innovative.'cause you just, you know, we would be without electricity for at least sort of 15 years before I left. It started two hours, you know, no electricity, then four hours and sometimes eight. You, you, you're constantly figuring things out, you know, no electricity and people like have generators and stuff. You got generators. And so, you know, it brings on different levels of, of opportunity. Yeah. So generators, solar power, um, inverters, but you're constantly like just having to figure things out, you know, it's like potholes and there's, you know, and it's also because our social services aren't paid well. So, sure. You know, sure. Teachers are paid terribly and, you know, just like not paid well, so you don't wanna do your job. And, and so I think there's just like, yeah, it's a country of contrast. You can be living in, you know, a beautiful home in a middle class suburb and Right. Uh, which is, you know, we've got a huge middle class and it's very mixed. Black, white. Right. You'll go to a restaurant, it's black, white, and India. It's very mixed, very diverse. And it's, well, well. Yeah. Integrated. Yeah, integrated. And um, and it's beautiful. It really is beautiful. Um, but, um, you can be in a, a neighborhood where it's relatively middle class and you can be, you know, mile down the road and you can. Sea feel not safe. Shacks. Yeah. You know, like tin tines and whatever. Uh, you know, it's too climate. And so it's just this contrast, it's this constant contrast. What's the, what's the climate like in general? Beautiful. Be just like Caribbean, or not Caribbean, but Mediterranean climate kind of, or is it, so Johannesburg is probably, you know, we don't have snow San Diego. Yeah. Uh, Cape Town is, I would say is pretty much, oh, more like in San Diego. There's a lot of familiarity, you know, I would say, and I mean, I, I share this information. I'd say people have gotta go to site. It's a gorgeous, gorgeous, yeah. I definitely have it on my list of places. Gorgeous. I mean. It's exquisite, like Cape Town and Dora and the, the, um, we call it the bush, uh, you guys will call it safaris. Sure. I It's exquisite. Like you, you just, the the land un is exquisite. Magnifi, you know, Cape Town is exquisite, exquisite. Herman is where my folks live, ex like beyond exquisite. So, uh, San Diego's probably a little bit like Cape Town weather and look and feel because if we've got Cape Town's way, way more beautiful. Uh, but it's that sort of, um, San Diego's not that pretty really. Uh, it's got beautiful mountains, deep, deep blue ocean wine farms, all gorgeous, gorgeous Johannesburg climate. It's probably similar to this, but we don't have snow. Okay. But super dry. Yep. Um, it's not mountainous, it's city like, it's just hardcore. It's like a mini version of let's say a la like, but I'm told mini. So let's get that all in context. Yeah, yeah. A tiny little version. It's still remarkable kinda. But it's city. Yeah. It's hardcore city. Okay. And, uh, I mean obviously I was living in the suburbs Sure. Of, of Johannesburg. Tell me about like your college path Yeah. And choosing that and then, um, kind of like how did you make your way into the banking industry? Oh, yeah. Uh, I love your questions and I have a very, um, uh. How do I describe it? I'd say I'm one of those people who is able to make things happen. I'm a I'm a make it happen person, so Yeah. You're not a non-player character. You're a, so I was highly full, full player character. Highly, I'm going to experience life to the fullest. And when I go to my deathbed, it's like, you know, nothing, no stones unturned. Okay. Um, so highly capable sports person at school. Okay. I was a squash player. Oh, you're a volleyball player too? No volleyball. Well, you mentioned Dana was a volleyball coach or something. Yeah. Yeah. But volleyball is a, we played in gym, not a real sport, you know, not in South African. Only rugby and cricket are real sports in South Africa. Okay. But I played squash and, um, it's similar to your racketball here, and was highly capable player. And so I ended up playing, uh, once I left school. Okay. Uh, overseas and had a rankings. Wow. Oh wow. Yeah. I played in, in you made money playing squash and stuff? A little bit, yeah, little bit. But it was, you know, after spent a lot more money in playing squash than you made, but. Yeah, so, so, but traveled and I think the experience of being a professional athlete and traveling and, you know, we had just come out of apartheid, I think I was the second player to, to, to head out and, and give it a batch on the world circuits. Okay. I got to like 23 and Oh wow. Um, and just reached a point where it's like, okay, you know, do the right thing. Go study. So, um, I didn't think I was really capable of, of much outside of squash and ended up, uh, playing. So you didn't really come into your own academically until much later? I was average academically, yeah. Average, you know, so I, I did something called human movement science. Okay. Which I think you guys have got almost like physical therapy. Physical therapy, physiology ish. And did really well once I got into like, actually loves kinesiology. Yeah, yeah. Kines, well, yes. Version somewhere in that room. Something like that. Yeah. Uh, human, human performance. Yeah. Yeah. Physical performance. And so, um, spent my time there doing honors and came out of that. And again, I, I was entrepreneurial, so I opened up. I had ran two personal training gyms. Okay. Um, I was still playing squash. I played for South Africa and I was still traveling a bit for squash and uh, that kind of stuff. So, you know, ran the personal training gyms and, and, uh, felt that by the age of 30 I was over the, the personal training gyms. And I was personal training as well, but I enjoyed running the gyms, but I didn't enjoy the personal training part of it and just wanted to, they kept having this impulse that, uh, corporate was calling my name. Never been in corporate. I had no idea. And this is where I say like, center of liberation is like this heart led, because when the heart starts intuiting and pulling and prompting Yeah. You know, at once something. And I'm like, oh my God. Like, I don't have no idea how I'm getting into corporate. Anyway, long story short ended up, uh, wrapping up the gyms, like, Hey, the universe decided to close them for me. And, um. I moved back to Johannesburg. I was living in a place called Durban then and got into coaching, so business coaching, life coaching, did a diploma. I studied psychology and did all my honors in psychology. Oh, interesting. And during that time, I really got involved. My, my life was actually quite a mess at about 32, 33. Um, I had to have a hip, total hip replacement as a result of squash. Um, I'd had a big breakup and I was kind of just in this crisis. I think everyone goes through, hit some kind of crisis at some point, uh, where life was not looking too rosy. So I moved back to Johannesburg and, uh, started a business with my sister. And kind of got into the whole quantum real spiritual realm during this crisis. Okay. You know, law of attraction and understanding how quantum worked and, and energy and the force field and all those kind of things. Uh, and started just to practice, like really shifting my mindset and shifting. Wanted to shift my whole life. I was in debt. I wanted to get outta that. And part of that journey was like I wanted to get into corporate and just kept having an a, uh, image of myself, you know, in a boardroom. Interesting. Doing presentations. I had no idea how that image. Came, it just kept happening and kept happening. And, and uh, needless to say, I think at 36 ish, uh, an opportunity came to out of the blue, out of nowhere to step into banking and, uh, like, like it was just round and round and like, that's why I say like the synchronistic orientation of the, the universe has plans for you. Yeah, yeah. You can just follow the plans, fall into the flow of it. You can just fall into the flow of it and follow it. And it does not make sense at all. Anyway, I needless to say this opportunity never been in banking, hadn't studied at business school, had done, you know, a lot of, in the human development side, understood quantum, but I'd, I would say manifested this opportunity and, um, I had an opportunity to step into the top niche bank in the country and on the continent and spend five weeks. On a project, which I chose to say yes to, versus I think I also had an opportunity to, to work for a company for a year, and I, they both came up at the same time. I said, I'm like this, it's called, it's r and b, ran Merchant Bank. Oh yeah. I'm like, I'm going for, I'm going for the, the five week opportunity and the five week opportunity turned into about 12, 13 years. Nice. Nice. Yeah. Just, uh. It was an amazing experience. I, uh, when I reflect back on my departure from my own banking career, um, and I don't know if, I don't think we touched on this even, but I, I left banking to try to start a restaurant. I wanted to do a, a locally sourced international fusion kind of restaurant thing that turned into a mobile food truck.'cause I didn't get my locations and things, but I started local think tank kind of along the way. And I've teased that, you know, local think tank was too difficult for God to explain to me in my dreams and my visions. But he could pull me out of banking with like, Hey, you should start a restaurant. But his plan was ne, you know, perhaps still to have me start look at think tank, but just how to quite explain that wasn't quite right. So, anyway, I, I digress. I wondered if the, the, the heart is deceived and I was also thinking to myself about, you know, the, the similarities, if you will, of. Uh, prayer to manifestation and, you know, manifestation is like a self-powered kind of thing. More, but not necessarily.'cause it requires a universal consciousness kind of element. Is that thing God? Mm-hmm. I don't know. Um, anyway, so a few different things I was thinking about when you were talking. Yeah, well that's exactly your experience. It's kind of like when you just, you know, yeah, I'm supposed to be going this way. You think you're going this way and the next thing you're going this way and the next thing you're in America. And like, how does that all happen? You know, how, like, how does that happen? So, and, and here you are. Here we are. And here we are. Like, you know, could I have really constructed this particular journey just on my own right. I doubt it. I think there was a little help somewhere somehow. Yeah. How shaped looks like. Exactly. Um, and, and what I think I would like to observe is that your, your career in banking was really in the kind of innovation change Yes. Management imagination of what could be, which banks. Do poorly. I mean, they, they change at a snail's pace when they're, when they're changing fast. Um, and so I'm imagining that somebody like yourself, even with a, a, a blunted environment for, for growth and change could really be seen as a key different kind of thinker. Yes. And I think I was that in Yes, in, I worked for little banks, right? Not big banks, but same kind of thing. Yes. They were like, Hey Kurt, we need to rebrand. Like we need some of your ideas and what we think. We are. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. And I think, you know, you're seeing it very fortunate that the bank, uh, r and b was, was very sort of on it. And, um, FNB in fact, I think, which is part of the same group, um, known, I think it's in the top three of, of the most innovative banks in the world. Interesting. Amazing. I mean, I, you know, our banking system, everything was on, um, on app and that kind of stuff. Like, you guys still said checks. You even have checks. Yeah. I'm a star. Like there was one of, there's so much like. I was like, you, I drop a check out for rent still every month. You actually have checks. Like, um, that's so interesting. But that's about, that's about half my checkout output is actually my rent check every month. I put in the mailbox here. So, you know, you have cats. Like we just, everything is on that app. Everything is, is into the app. So, you know, very innovative and amazing thinkers, like I say, south Africans and, and in these sort of environments. Mm-hmm. World class thinking, well, you get crafty. Right. Having a hard time, like I'm from North Dakota where resources are always. Not as much as you wish to. Mm. You know, it's kind of like that kind of environment you talk and, and when you don't have a lot of resources, you get scrappy and you, and that creates a lot of innovation, lots of in innovation and moves quickly. And so agree. The big, the big structures, corporate structures that do move slowly. And um, and it was interesting to observe over the time I was there, just how the organization involved and the types of people instead of, you know, let's say employing your traditional sort of cas and accountants were bringing in like, um, engineers and just like real different, you know, which was important to Yeah. Really start thinking differently to, uh, develop understanding. And then, you know, we did a lot of things really well. And so, like I say, sort of getting into an understanding, you know, what is this crypto land and what yeah, why do people want it and uh, et cetera, and, you know, so just staying, staying present with the times were you. Focused on internal stuff like your banking teams and your bankers and stuff around that? Mm-hmm. Or were you working with clients in, you know, this company and that company and helping them understand. Strategy plans and different whatever. I was involved for much of my career with the internal transformation, you know, building strategies, kinda exchange management, strategy, all that. Leaders, building strategies, mergers. We had a few big mergers and I was very involved in, in, um, our, the merger of our foreign exchange business units and sitting with the executive team and, and leading all of that. And then the last couple of years I spent more time with, um, some clients. Okay. As I was involved in, I moved into an ecosystem and partnership. Division, which was the capability overall was all around innovation and ventures and new innovations. Yeah. And so I was working in sharing some of your leading edge with the projects of like metaverse and what that meant. Mm-hmm. And how clients could use Metaverse. And so I was in, you know, contributing to some of the strategies then of, of external clients as we were looking to, to support them with Yeah. With these new, who are your customers in the future and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. You're the customers of how do you support them and you know, there's just various industries. So I was pretty involved in those sort of things and looking at new ventures and bringing in, you know, again, the bank even creating its own ecosystem and Sure. Where were the gaps And so it was as super excited, was very challenging. Super exciting. Yeah. And uh, yeah, you, you seem like a person comfortable with like zoomed up to 30,000 feet or even a hundred thousand feet, but also like pulling weeds in the garden. A hundred percent. I think I'm one of those people and I don't know how that's come. I think just life experience. I don't know how that, like I can zoom out. Very quick, get a big picture and then I would like, again, it spring this down to, you know, I think it's probably part, I think your nature is that zoom upper, but all of your experience in professional, professional athletics is like gotta, that's right there. You gotta touch it. Do it. I've gotta like, I've gotta, I'm not a. Just a dreamer. I have to, like, I've run, we have, in something in South Africa, we've got something called comrades, which is in 9 56 mile. It's a 90 kilometer ultramarathon. Oh. That you run in one day or you've got like 10 or 11 hours to run it. And I said I had a hip replacement off, off, but I did four of those off my hip replacement off. Oh gosh. And that thing is like, oh my gosh. So it's like I'm a very physically orientated, practical person. Yeah. But I know and sense what's coming or what's here and how to like move. And then all of that says, you know, you just gotta stretch beyond your edges, into your edges to discover more of who you are. And I, I mentioned that I'm, I'm a person who, when I go to the grave, I'm, I'm not, you know, I wanna know what, what, what stones do I need to unturn and then take people there. You know, people are, I, I love taking people. To new places and to their, not in a painful way. Yeah. But like, get beyond. Because you know, comrades was a great teacher for me of like, oh boy, you, you're gonna get beyond yourself if you spend, you gotta stretch that boundary, stretch that boundary, stretch that boundary. You're stretching beyond anything mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually. And you know, in the whole buildup to training for something like that. And then actually on the day of running it mm-hmm. You transcend in ways you can't of imagine. I've got a friend that's running the, running his second 200 mile race in June. Oh God. Like, that's, no. And I'm like, dude, why do you, well, no. Like, you've got a family. You got a wife that loves you. He does. Like why? I'm surprised. Yeah. Oh, it's, anyway. Yeah. Wow. That's wild. I digress. He's actually a financial planner, like a good one. Uh, but he just like makes himself do. Yeah. And it took him. Think you told me it took him like three months to recover from the last one. Yeah. No, no. It's, it's, I mean, I'm talking like, uh, 56 miles and that took me Whew. Yeah. A, a solid month to recover from that. Yeah. Um, well, God bless you all that. Do hard things. Um, are you ready? Oh, actually, before we get there, um, let's talk about, because you're kind of a futurist and trends, um, we always like, I don't know how many kids listen to my podcast, but I do want to inspire Yeah. The future entrepreneurs of the world and the future. Like people, the, the people that aren't non-player characters. Mm. Like all the movers, all the prime movers and the movers out there. They're not prime, but you know, secondary prime. Um, like with all the evolution of education of like, especially for that 16, 18-year-old, um, where do they set their pointer? What do, yeah. You know, aside from learning about ai, like. Where should they get a, should they get a university education? Such a great question. And I'll be honest with you, I don't actually have the answer. And why do I say that? Because I think the careers of the future haven't even been thought about yet. So I think it's, for me, I would definitely be keeping just travel Europe and South Africa for a couple years, let things settle down a little bit and see where it goes. I think there's, I just think there's huge opportunity. I would be number one, I would be following, again, I said at some point in this conversation, follow the smart money. Like what's the smart money doing? Who are the investors now and who are the investors of the future and what are they investing in? And if you're really wanting to kind of set yourself up, like just go and explore and experiment with those, those things. So keep your finger on the pulse of those sort of things. You know, I think the, um, it really depends. I think there's going, I, I talk about paradigms and, and timelines opening up. So I think there's going to be various opportunities to move in the direction that you really brings you most joy. I think there's a big movement into the space of like. Uh, enjoy what you do. What I'd say is, so figuring out what you enjoy, figuring out what you enjoy, what I would say is, you know, if you, uh, sorry to all the parents out there, what I will, what my, my sense would be like when your parents are saying, go and do this. Go and do this. Be a doctor, be it, and you really don't want to be because you wanna do something else. Don't waste your time and go and be a doctor because you're gonna end up coming back through. Yeah. It's gonna pull you into journalism or whatever anyway. Exactly. It's gonna pull you back anyway. So rather save some money, time and, and energy And just if you can, follow your path. Number one, if you don't feel a pull, if you don't fully feel a pull, pull, steady. Follow the path of least resistance. Don't make life difficult. If you do not enjoy something, don't do it. What do you prefer? What do you prefer? And what lights you up energetically and from the inside? And go and pursue that. You're generally gonna have a much happier life experience than spending 20 years in a direction you don't wanna be and then changing anyway. I like it. Are you ready for a game? Go for it. Okay. I'm curious. We've got 30 numbered ping pong balls each attached to either a sophisticated business question or something very silly. Pull out three. Okay. And before I pull out three, one more comment on the, the, the, the kids for the kids. Right. Create value in whatever you do the best opportunities. If you're creating value and you're solving problems for people, you're doing so good. And, and so just get really good at, good at that and look for opportunities to create value. Yeah, I love it. That's great. Sorry, so I get to pull out three three balls? Yes. This orange and white attached to a question on my little sheet here. Okay. I'm gonna close my eyes for the first one, please. Yeah, that's great. Alright. Twin, is that right? Yeah, 20. 20. What's your go-to? Excuse when you want to get out of plans. Oh my goodness. That's so good. What is my go-to excuse when I wanna get out of, not that you would do such a thing when I want. Oh, I can be like, if Dana wants to actually go to a movie, but you've got a headache. No, it's not a headache. Uh, I've got so much work to do. What's that? I've got so much work to do. So much work to do. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Even if you don't actually apply to work on that work. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, I've got, I'm so overwhelmed that I actually need to just chill. Exactly. I just gotta sit on the couch. Right. I just gotta But meditate. The excuse is I've got a lot of work to do, but a lot of work to do. And I wanna meditate, but actually I just wanna sit, meditate. I like it. Okay. Uh, let's do the same question. That's a great question. I love that. Okay, lemme go with the, we'll go 26. 26. Uh, you know, I'm what, this almost seems like it's gonna be the same answer. What's your go-to way to unwind after a stressful day? I'm gonna say you're gonna meditate, but I'm gonna say I'll still listen for your answer. Okay. My go-to is, um, I have a little beagle dog, so, you know, there wasn't a lot that came with me from South Africa, but I've bought my little vegan dog. Okay. All right. What's her name or his name? His name is Oliver. Hi Oliver. And, uh, I just, you know, one thing that I really value and I authority, love, um, and I have a very deep appreciation and I don't think many Americans, I may maybe you do. Yes. That's not a fair comment, but I'll say you have a very beautiful country and the fact that you have very few fences and there it's a picket fence'cause you're keeping your dog inside, like cherish it. Hmm. So, um, I love taking Ali for a walk and seeing the mountains and Yeah. Kind just. Bumbling around. That's my go-to. Just the opportunity to be in such exquisite nature. We've gotta be open spaces. So close and relatively safe. Yeah. I love it. Uh, alright. Last one again. Ball number three. Yeah. Oh, let's go. Let's go, let's go. Let's have another orange one. Number 15. 15. What was either the last thing you Googled or the last meme that you downloaded? The last thing. The last thing I checked GBT. Let's go. Yeah, that works. Yeah. What did I check? GBT, uh. What was I working on today? Yeah, that question's already out of date. Ava, we just, yeah. Uh, I'm preparing for a master class, so, okay. Um, I have done all and, uh, done all the marketing and, you know, things for the opt-in page and whatever. And so the last thing I Googled was like, I wanna reshape this entire thing, uh, to bring in, you know, more intuitive, more this, whatever. And so please rewrite the whole, the whole thing. And I got my, oh, it was so well written. It wasn't Googled. It was chatted. It was chatted, so, oh. But chat job. I don't think I do too much Google anymore. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Same. Yeah. So, so it built my, my, uh, not the website, but the opt-in. Paid. Rebuilt it. Rebuilt it. Yeah. Look at this. Make it better. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. Um, the Loco experience is our final segment. Are you ready? Beautiful. Let's go. That is the craziest experience. So loco crazy of your lifetime that you're willing to share the craziest experience. Yeah. Any kidnappings or near death experiences or parachute, jumping on a planes or, I don't know, whatever. Uh, squash professionals could too. I see. When they're traveling the world or I don't know, near-death experiences. Do you have more than one? Three. Three? You can share'em all if you want. Were, I've got like five. There we go. It depends on how close some were. Some were more in, more, more dear near death than others. Uh, but after I had my hip replacement operation. Okay. I, um, got pulmonary embolisms and I didn't know, uh, and so I've been on, you get that's like your lung, right? Where it's like Yes. You get blood clots in your lungs. Yeah, and I didn't know. And um, I felt pain in my chest for about three weeks. Mm-hmm. And I thought, oh, it must just be maybe we an infection and whatever, and I, I'll just run an ultra marathon, I'll be fine. Well, I'd started doing the rehab and so you gotta walk around the, the neighborhood and you gotta start going to gym. So I was doing all of this and um, eventually probably about it got really intense and I started having this tight chest really, really tight, couldn't breathe and I started coughing out blood, uh, at which point I was like on the phone to my sister. I like, you gotta come fetch me. You gotta conduct something's happening. I can't breathe. And she came to fetch me and rushed me to hospital. And they didn't. Yeah. They just, I had pulmonary saved you after four weeks of walk. Wow. And apparently I need 2% of the population survived pulmonary embolisms without exercise. Oh dang. The, the, the guy I was on, literally, I was like out of body at this point and kind of looking down because your lungs were all filling up with fluid basically in your, I was just down. I couldn't breathe. I was like, oh dang. And so, um, they were, they were, had oxygen on me and trying to just sort of get me breathing. And I just remember that the doctor, at some point after they got me stabilized, he just came in. He was like. Big eyes. He was like, can't believe we saved you. Are you still here or something? How are you still here? Dang. And then I got, after one of the comrades, I got blood clots again in my leg. Okay. Uh, and had to go to similar kind of thing. Similar, except I didn't let myself get to, um, uh, I picked up the symptoms a bit and then I was in a, uh, quite a, a big car accident, uh, which I have no idea how I walked out with, literally tell me the circumstance. Like I had a blow out on, on, uh, one of our highways. Okay. And I was driving and it was in, on the, um, you drive on the right there, we drive on the right. No, everything's like, I'm on a whole new timeline. So we drive on the right and, uh, but it's not British. No. Oh, it is British. It is, yeah. Common. Yeah, I guess it is. I thought it was common. Just British colonies are mainly the only ones that do it. Right. The Commonwealth. So to, I had to redo my driver's license. I had to, the written and the, and the right, whatever. I was, I've never been so nervous. The pressure of like doing my driver's license, the left, the written one, let alone that at the age of 51 or whatever, it was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm doing this again. However. And um, so you're driving and you had it blow it on your title? Yeah, I have a blood in the tire and driving on a highway and, you know, like you guys have barricades in between Sure. The barricade and sort of spun all over the place. Whoa. Uh, and literally, I mean, the, the car was squashed and I was driving, so my, the driver's side was like, oh dang hit. Like the car was half was half and Oh dang. And I still like just you you didn't bounce off of other cars or anything? No. Unfortunately, you and the guard rail played a little bit, me and the guardrail, and it was happen so quick, you know, because. Just next to the curve, there was a bit of grass and then, you know, the barrier. And so it had the blow. Oh. Got a fright. Probably going at 60, 70 miles. Got a fright, then went off the, didn't flip over. It just like spun. We should have, but the, the other tire blew. And then as we hit the, we you were whistling. I was, yeah. I had someone in the car with me, the, um, the tires because there was no tread. They kind of Oh yeah. Winded into, yeah. They're just sliding and instead of flipping over the guard rail kind of thing, that's, uh, so yeah. Yeah. A blessing. Yeah. So I'm very blessed to be here. I'm very grateful. And, uh, I think you got at least three or more near deaths than you. I'm done. You're young. Yeah, I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. The pian person No more please. Was like Okay. I think I'm, I'm, it's been like 10 years for me since I've had one. I kinda like breathing easily. It's kind of fun. Yeah. Yeah. Fair. Um, do you have any questions for me as we wrap this up? Well, well, there you go. What's the craziest thing that you haven't shared with your audience yet? About you? About me? Yeah. Near-death experiences. Well, I've shared a few stories. Um, I don't know I've ever shared that I was, I was five foot one at the end of my sophomore year of high school, so I was super short. I was five foot at the beginning of my seventh grade year. So I basically didn't grow from, from seventh grade to 10th grade. Oh my gosh. And, uh, then all of a sudden shot up. Uh, and I was a good basketball player, but unfortunately I was super short. So like I didn't work out that way. So, uh, so yeah, that experience of kind of, and, and I was kind of depressed at that time'cause I was like smart and stuff and I, you know, whatever people liked me and stuff, but like knowing that I was probably just, my dad was six four and knowing that I was gonna be this like shorty. For and kind of well accepting that, but not really. I was pretty depressed about it. Um, and then all of a sudden I started getting tall and it was like, well now I'm this, you know, six you, you up for it, two and 130 pounds or whatever, you know, at that time made. So it was also awkward growing. But, but yeah, it was a, you know, it was a humbling thing. Like, I, I don't know how to quite explain it. Like for all your shorties out there, you know, there's no shame in that, and I'm glad you're there too. But I don't know, for whatever reason, I had come to accept this fact that even though I had a really tall dad and a normal sized mom, I was gonna be like this short little guy all my life. And then I started growing, like by the time I confronted the issue, then I started growing. So that was definitely a fascinating time for me in a real small school, you know, 50 person high school. So it was. You know, I was Kurt the Squirt and was definitely bullied heavily more than most everybody else. Wow. I'm astounded. And I mean, I, I, that would just not, that didn't think I would be a victim of bully hood. No. And it wouldn't even feature that you were ever short. So I'm like, okay, well, fair. That's amazing. Yeah, so I guess it wasn't an experience wasn't a near death. I've shared a lot of my near death experiences on here already, so I didn't wanna duplicate one of those by accident. But, uh, but yeah, that was an experience for sure. Wow. Yeah. Thanks for asking. Yeah, sure. Well, thanks for sharing. Thanks for being here. Yeah. I mean, if people wanna find you, they just look you up on LinkedIn. Is that the best way? LinkedIn just, uh, look me up there and Yeah. I'm a little bit on Facebook. I do quite a few posts there or, okay. Or you can go to my website. Uh, center of Liberation. Center of liberation com. Yeah. Center of Liberation. So liberating you from all the, all the. The annoying, challenging, get happy, man. I'm just like, let's, let's just get happy. Yeah. Liberate yourself from the stress and anxiety of you wanna make more money, you wanna position your business, you wanna go to the next level. Um, go to the edges. Lean into the edges and what's next in expand your life. Expand your and um, and dirt, you know, quicker and easier than in a quantum way. In a quantum way than come play in my world. I'd like it. I would love it. Hey, I appreciate you being here, Sean. So great to be here. Have a nice, nice, uh, afternoon, evening. Yeah. Thank you so much.
