EXPERIENCE 224 | Dwight Sailer, Owner of HighCraft Builders. Integrated Designs, Aligned Teams, and Strong Relationships

In this episode of The LoCo Experience Podcast, I sat down with Dwight Sailer, the owner of HighCraft Builders based in Fort Collins, Colorado.  We discussed Dwight's background and the early days of his business, including his journey from apprentice craftsman in Monterey Bay to a fresh start in Colorado and how he started HighCraft with his longtime business partner Bryan Soth.  Dwight shared insights into the unique challenges and opportunities in the construction industry, including their fixed-price model and the importance of building strong client relationships. We also delved into the evolution of their office space on Mulberry Street, which serves as a physical testament to their commitment to quality and creativity in their projects.

Dwight's passion for his work and his team's dedication to excellence were evident throughout our conversation. We touched on various aspects of Dwight's life, from his family and personal background to his experience in Builder 20 business groups that have helped refine their business practices. The conversation was both informative and engaging, highlighting the highs and lows of running a successful construction business. From the humorous story of a barroom altercation during a business trip to a tender discussion of Dwight's family and future aspirations, this episode offers a comprehensive look at what makes HighCraft Builders tick. Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur or simply interested in the construction industry, this episode is packed with valuable insights and stories, so please enjoy - as I did - my conversation with Dwight Sailer. 

PS - I booked this conversation with Dwight after congratulating him on HighCraft being recognized with a BBB Torch Award for business ethics.  In his humility, and my forgetfulness, the topic never even came up in our conversation, so I thought I should at least mention it during the intro! 

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In this episode of the Loco Experience Podcast, I sat down with Dwight Sailor, the owner of High Craft Builders based in Fort Collins, Colorado. We discussed Dwight's background in the early days of his business, including his journey from Apprentice Craftsman in Monterey Bay to a fresh start in Colorado, and how he started the company with his longtime business partner, Brian. So Dwight shared insights into the unique challenges and opportunities in the construction industry. Including their fixed price model and the importance of building strong client relationships. We also delved into the evolution of their office space on Mulberry Street, which serves as a physical testament to their commitment to quality and creativity in their projects. Dwight's passion for his work and his team's dedication to excellence were evident throughout our conversation. We touched on various aspects of Dwight's life from his family and personal background to his experience in builder 20 business groups that have helped refine their business practices. The conversation was both informative and engaging, highlighting the highs and lows of running a successful construction business. from the humorous story of a barroom altercation during a business trip to a tender discussion of Dwight's family and future aspirations. This episode offers a comprehensive look at what makes high craft builders tick. Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur or simply interested in the construction industry, this episode is packed with valuable insights and stories, so please enjoy. As I did my conversation with Dwight Sailor, PS I booked this conversation with Dwight after congratulating him on high craft, being recognized with A BBB Torch Award for Business ethics. In his humility and my forgetfulness, the topic never even came up in our conversation, so I thought I should at least mention it during this intro. Welcome back to the Loco Experience Podcast. My guest today is Dwight Sailor, the owner of High Craft Builders here in Fort Collins, celebrating 27, just going into our 27th year. Okay. So we're, we're we just wrapped up your 26 and keep moving forward. How many. Clients have you gotten, just because they noticed your really cute place on Mulberry Street there? Over there a lot. A lot. The, uh, the office has definitely had a, a really great, um, uh, expression of who we are and for what, what the, what the, I guess what we, what we enjoy, what we're trying to build Yeah. Focus on. It's worked out real well. Yeah. How many years in was that? Um, the history of that office was there? Was there was a chiropractor. There was a chiropractor in there for Okay. Just a, I, I don't know. Um, Mr. Walker was his name. He's, he's, uh, passed now. Um, I got the town in 99. Yeah, originally, yeah. Nine in, he was so 90 nine's about when we got. We started renting that office from there. Oh, really? Okay. And he was down in the basement still doing chiropractor work, and he was probably in his eighties at that time. Okay. Uh, and it was, it was full of old equipment from the, uh, military surplus x-ray machines were down there. And I mean, it was, it was old, old school. It was quite the all the way old school. Yeah. It was kind of had a horror vibe to it downstairs. Okay. Um, we just don't go down there. We don't let our clients see it. And, my, um, my partner who we, we started the company together and we were partners for the past 24 years, or the first 24 years of the company. Yeah. Before he retired. What's his name again? Um, his name's Brian. Brian. So Brian. Um, but, uh, Brian had a connection with the walkers and they had us come out and we looked at it and we said this would make a great office. Prior to that, we were behind the St. Pete's on harmony. Hmm. Yeah. There's a little two story storage shed and we, that was home and we were just thrilled to have our own corner. Yeah. And, uh, so yeah, 99. And then, uh. Uh, it's been there for a long time and so I guess just for those that don't know, high craft builders, and I feel like I kind of do, kind of don't, I have never been a client, you know? Sure. So it's not from the inside. Um, describe kind of who your clients are and maybe a little bit about the kinds of projects that you are most bested at. You bet. You bet. So, well, uh, like most businesses, you evolve over a period of time and high craft started by, doing a, uh, uh, small addition in our basement and then our renovation. And we really were just a remodeling company just at the beginning. Okay. Small. Um. Then what it's grown to now is custom homes, remodeling, and the overall design process all, all within our facility. Um, so design build under, under one roof Residential customer? Yeah. Yeah. Design build architecture's done in-house. Okay. Interior design's done in-house. So everybody's working towards a common goal. Mm-hmm. And then one source of accountability. Interesting. So, uh, has that been your model from the start? Kind of? No. We, we found the need on the, the architectural side started when we couldn't get anybody to draw a set of plans. Right. For nobody less than eight weeks. Nobody was really excited to draw a set of plans on, uh, a remodel or a basement or, uh, a little addition. Mm. Um. And it was, you know, it takes some time and, you know, the, there's not, it's not a tremendous amount of money to draw plans for a small remodel. Right. Uh, so, you know, outta necessity is born creativity. So you figure out, we gotta get some plans drawn. Okay. And, uh, what started out at the beginning was sitting on a computer and trying to teach yourself how to get it done. And then, and then we, um, also saw the, really, for us, we just kept seeing the need to where we were working in unison with the client to build those plans to what they, what they were wanting, both in how was the house was gonna work, the overall design, but, um, equally if not as much importance, um, was that their overall budget. Was, was being, we're very conscious of that all the way through. So every time we were, every time we were meeting, we were going, going over budgets because prior to that, we were, we would just have a tremendous amount of people come into the office and say, Hey, we got this, we wanna meet with you. And we got these plans. And then we'd go through and talk to'em about what it was gonna cost. And they were just absolutely flabbergasted. They, they had never had that conversation before. Right. So we just knew. Well, a lot of times designers aren't really price conscious. They're, well, it's, I wanted to do this, and the clients said they wanted to do all this, and so I drew that. Yeah. And, and they're doing their, they're doing their job of creating the, the design. Usually that's all they're asked to do. Um, and, uh, so if somebody came in and said, I, I want to do a, I wanna do a podcast, you know, like, great. I, that's, that's, that's my wheelhouse. But, uh, I. If you, if they afterwards needed to figure out how something associated with it cost and you had no idea, then you just did your job. Now it's their job to go figure out what that is. Right. Right. And that's really where it started. I don't think it was any, it was not a, it wasn't really a foul. It was finding people who could, um, who wanted to do it and then also aligning more of the budget Yeah. For the clients. So that's, that's really where, where the, the, the birth of the design build Yeah. Process. So call it, uh, like integrated design plus general contracting Yeah. Is the model. Yeah, exactly. And then that way, you know, in a typical situation, you'll see, uh, in the traditional sense of, of contracting in residential, you'll see it gets to a point to where you see the first problem shows up and the. Contractor does this and the architect does this, and the homeowner does this right. And the designer does this, and who's, who owns it. Right. And we really like the accountability of owning all the, everything except for the, it's, it's all on our shoulders. Yeah. Yeah. Every bit. That's really interesting. And there's nobody else's fault except for our fault. Something goes wrong. So what has, what has high craft grown into as far as a team size and like, can you maybe describe like, departments a little bit? Like who does what around there? Sure. So we, we uh, uh, the overall company right now is right at 20. Okay. Um, you know, if you exclude myself and you don't really work there anyway, of course you just kind pop in once in a while, right? No, of course I do. Uh, but, uh, the, um, you get about half of that is our production team. Oh, wow. Okay. So the production team is out there. Uh, make things happen, daily activities on our, on our projects. Um, and then from there you've got, can, can you is like, like project management, like oversight? Yeah. Kind of project management, making sure it's coming together the way it was designed and architected to be. Yep. And we've always had working project managers so they're, um, less likely to be sitting in their truck on the cell phone and more likely to be in the house taking care of what needs to be taken care of, as well as on the cell phone too. What punch listing while it, it's coming together almost. Yeah. Just getting everybody to show up, you know, coordinating, um. And then, uh, you got a, a small office staff Yeah. Of a, of a couple to take care of the administration side and all that, all the materials. And are you that, that's the design side. They're okay. They're, we have two in that department and they, they not only put together all the interior design, but they also make sure everything that you could probably ever see that's a product, um, that's, that's ordered as well. Yeah. So, um, and then, uh, the architectural team, which is, there's two in that department as well. Okay. So, and then. How do you generate business? Do you have like people that are out there advertising, marketing, like how marketing aside from having a cool location that's marketing always falls into the role we have. Uh, we're, um, because my partner and I were, we're, we understood partnership and how that works. Mm-hmm. Um, uh, had a little bit of a different take on how we see the overall leadership of a company. Um, we had opposite skill sets. Okay. Um, we had, we looked at the world very differently. Okay. Amazing partnership. Uh, and, um, spent those 24 years really shaping, um, off of each other. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Um, so, and can you describe that a little bit? Like what were you doing and what was he doing and then how did you account for that when, when Brian left? Yeah, so we, we, um, we spent time, uh. You know, I always, I always ran the operational side. That was more my background. Okay. More, more, you know, uh, uh, my gifting, I guess, would be that I, I really enjoyed the, the construction side. Mm-hmm. And I enjoyed the physicality of it. Kinda enjoyed working with clients. Okay. Um, the, uh, my partner, uh, Brian, he, he came out of, you know, he had his MBA. Mm. Uh, he remodeled a house. Uh, him and his wife at the time, they remodeled a house. And, uh, he never done that before and he loved it. Okay. And so, so budgets and stuff like that. Workers, he, he moved a sweet spot. Moved. Yeah, he moved to Fort Collins. Um, and we, we met and, uh, it, it just, it was a, it was a great connection for, Hey, let's start this business in remodeling, which at the time, if you go back to 98, it was. A lot of track housing was the new construction here in northern Colorado. It was not, the custom market wasn't even really, hadn't developed the same way either. Yeah. So we, yeah. After all those creative original houses in Old Town, there was a, a season of not much interesting happening. Yeah. Yeah. And, and part of that is time. I mean, if you look at, if off of that comment, if you look at Old Town, I mean, the majority of Old Town was all bought out of a Sears catalog. That's as track home as it gets fair. Right. For 3,500 bucks you would order a house and they'd deliver it. Yeah. Um, to the train station. Yeah. And you'd figure out how to get it from the railroad tracks to wherever an old town you were and into a plumber. Yeah. And you, and it, so, you know, I mean, it's, it's as cute as a Queen Anne is. There's, how many of'em in, uh, in Fort Collins fit that same bill? Yeah. You know, so it's, um, so. But the nineties, the nine early nineties Track House of Fort Collins, I didn't really have a calling to at all. I didn't really have a passion within that, nor did, I mean, what, what were you up to, uh, before this? I, I was starting my career really, really, uh, um, my career, um, started, uh, in 89. I I grew up out in a small town in about the middle of the Monterey Bay. Okay. Yeah. And in, uh, September, October of 89, I can't remember what the exact date was now, and not anymore. Uh, there was the, uh, earthquake that happened during the, um, world Series. Yeah. If you remember that. Uh, yeah. Bridges fell San Francisco. Yeah. Had a bunch of problems. Yeah. Yeah. And that was about two hours north of where I was. A Hayes fan, kind of, yeah. Yeah. AEs. Yep. So, uh, that was about two hours north of where we grew up. Okay. Um, and, uh, uh, in that, uh, it was the epicenter of the earthquake was in our hometown, so, oh. Uh, found myself, um, in high school. My, I was a senior year in high school, uh, and I don't even know how I graduated. I got picked up by a couple of contractors. I start realizing, wow, I can, if I work all day, I can make, because there was all this work to do. Yeah. All the, there was work everywhere. Right. I didn't really know much about construction at the time Yeah. Other than laboring. Yep. So, uh, got picked up by a contractor and he said, Hey, here's, here's the deal. You, if you work a half day, you get$50, you work a full day, you get a hundred bucks. Yeah. And I, I couldn't even believe those kind of figures. That was big. That was big dollars. You, I mean, minimum wage was probably 4 25 an hour at the time, so, right, exactly. So, um, I went for it and it was, it was, uh, you know, that was back in the days where contractor would give you, uh, a roll of quarters. And you made your phone calls from the payphone. Uh, and I remember being at school, checking in on drywallers to make sure they're at the job sites, sneaking outta school to race, race to a job site because they weren't answering the payphone at the time that we had lined up for them to call to be able to receive that call at the gas station. So you had different gas stations with different payphone numbers. Right. And you were calling those to be able to do your communication. Wow. Um, yeah. You're just that little bit older than me. Like when I got my first job at the bank, they gave me my first cell phone. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So my professional career has always had that kind of cell phones didn't show up for, for a little bit Yeah. In 10 years almost. Yeah. So, so, um, but I graduated on high school. I graduated high school on a Saturday and had lined up with a remodeling custom home company on to go to work for them on Monday. Okay. And here I am. I barely graduated. Somehow I got selected to speak at our graduation, uh, and I was, you know, speaking to the class and all I was thinking is, is you guys are all suckers. There is so much money you can make 50 bucks and a half a day and a hundred bucks in a whole day. The world, world showed itself really quickly to me on what that actually really look like, right? And what, uh, what, uh, a true job at eight bucks an hour looks like, and, uh, um, September game and all the friends were gone. And the reality of, okay, I I, I really need to lock in here and yeah, I need to be focused on a, on what the path that I chose. Well, California dried up with work about a year and a half later, and I found myself driving a two hour one way commute up to San Francisco every day, um, working on incredibly expensive homes and, um. But four hours a day in a, in a pickup. Yeah. And that job was, if you want this work, it's here. Hmm. We don't care where you're from and we don't care what you gotta do to get here. Right. You can clock in it, you can leave at 4:00 AM seven 30'cause traffic's louy. Exactly. Nobody care. Four, six. Anyway. And that does two years really taught me in working in, uh, an environment of homes that were big, expensive, the, the care that has to go in and working in that environment. Yeah. Yeah. And then, um, yeah, luxury is luxury'cause it's really nice. Yes. Right. It's really nice. It has to be really, really nice. Then a then a, a crazy thing happened. Um, uh, a man that I knew who was a contractor, I knew him pretty much my whole life and didn't really know him very well. He, uh, reached out to me and, and he was building a house on the ocean. And I, I thought that was pretty, pretty neat. I mean, that's, yeah. And he, he was a, uh, a one man contractor who did everything himself. Wow. Dug his own, dug his own, uh, footings d uh, poured his own foundations. Did electrical flow? No, he subbed out a couple of the trades, but as far as all of the carpentry aspects of Yeah. Built his own cabinets, all, all of that side of things. Wow. And, uh, I met him and he said, why don't you, why don't you come to work for me? Uh, and now, now we're, um, uh, probably around 94. Okay. Somewhere at 93. All right. And, uh. He started picking up work in Monterey. So now the commute went the other direction. Oh, okay. From where I was from. All right. And the commute was shorter, it was less than an hour. Yeah. And I was getting work down in Pebble, pebble Beach. Okay. Pacific Grove, Monterey. Yeah. And another beautiful, fancy houses. And these are how close this was to where I grew up. I never really went down there. Sure. Right. We just grew up in just a, well, the ball field was just down here and the park was over there and whatever, you know, and my parents were hardworking. Uh, and you, you just didn't go for a, so it opened my eyes. I didn't even know this existed down here. Yeah. Um, and that's where I gotta learn what quality was. Um, I gotta, you know, uh, getting to work on small square footage homes in the early nineties we're, we're talking, you know, a 2,500 square foot home that at the time to build was about a thousand dollars a square foot. Yep. Those numbers are still big. Yeah. Back then they were, they were tremendous. Yeah. And it was, it was, uh hmm. That was an exercise of quality that I really did not know what existed. And we really, as a general contractor. Right, because you're now subbing out quite a few of these things or were you still doing No, all this stuff was, you're craftsman. This thing. I was, I was, I was digging, digging foundations, whatever. I, what I got was a, about a three year, two to three year full immersion, craftsman, apprentice Wow. Experience that I, I wish that even my own son could, could find out. Right. Um, and he paid you a little bit too. He paid me a little bit and he worked me, and we, I learned foundations, uh. Uh, worked in difficult sites. Um, it was not flat like here. Sure. So it was, it was definitely steep and muddy. Yeah. And, uh, it just, it showed me how to, uh, this career process was birthing itself. That, but I did not know. And then when I moved to Colorado, my mom was from here, so I'd been coming back and forth seeing my grandparents and mm-hmm. Um, my mom born and raised right down the road. And, uh, so when I moved, felt this natural side of me to really, what do I know? I know. Remodel. Maybe we can get one of those. And when I met Brian and Right. We sold one and then that, here we go. That started off. Yeah. He's like, you know what, I know the numbers. And you're like, oh, well I don't know that very good, but I got all the skills. Yeah. So we relied on each other heavy for sure. Through it. So it was great. It was great. Yeah. That's neat. Um, and that was kind of pre. Premium construction stuff, like even the big houses weren't that premium. Yeah, probably. Well we, not that you probably got into it right away'cause you were doing basement remodel and additions and stuff. It, it all took time. I mean, we, you couldn't do a thousand dollars a square foot right away. No, no, no. Well, we, I don't think we've ever hit that, uh, even since then. But, uh, um, it, uh, yeah, it is one small, just prove yourself. Take care of the client. Yeah. And, and maybe it'll open up the door to another one and it and it did. Yeah. It did one after another after another. And, um, it was great for, great for a little while until you have to really learn how business works. Was there any, uh, like, uh, either real opportunity projects that, you know, sprouted a whole bunch of other opportunities for you or like miserable failures that had your wife questioning your sanity in getting into this? Uh. Business early on, you know? Yeah. I mean there's definitely some failures in there. Um, and there's, uh, there was some opportunities that showed up where we, um, there was, uh, one family in particular that when that work came, it was about 10 years into the business. We knew if we, nah, maybe it was a little less than that, but we took this job. Personalities were strong. We knew if we don't crush this, we probably need to go ahead and move our families out of this town. No pressure. They know everybody. Right. They have influence. If we screw this up, we're done. But Right. And sometimes people with influence wield it. If we home run this thing Right. If we home run this thing, yeah. It'll be amazing for us. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was a little over 20 years ago. And, uh, uh. Great dynamic working with that family. It was amazing. I did that one myself. And, um, uh, it was, it was an incredible situation. Did you, like, were you doing like all the things early on or did you hire people to do some of the things we brought, we learned really quick. We really learned really quick to bring in the, the proper trades for the proper jobs. And then we just took care of the carpentry. Yeah, fair enough. So that, that was what I was trained in. That's what my partner's love was. Gotcha. So we're gonna take on what we're, is that still the case that that high craft does the carpentry? You don't about as much of that? Um, like I said, we have working project managers, they will be a part of it. Uh, we sub out all, there's just no way to get it all done. Yeah. So we'd have to have an army and I will tell you, there's build a pencil for me. It's just ama there's some amazing trades out there. Yeah. So, uh, if you can, if you can line up with. Uh, a couple of them as, as a, uh, contractor really, really supports you properly. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. So we, but yeah, we had, we had our share of, uh, our, our difficulties. I mean, we, yeah. We found you didn't make money on every single project, you know. No, no. You, we, we found that it was really hard to find. We grew and grew and grew, and we had this, our reputation at the beginning was just so strong and so good. Mm. And it was amazing. I just started walking with this pride that I didn't even know that I could have. Yeah. Yeah. And then, uh, the company grew and a couple things happened. Wow. We have quite a few mediocre people working here. We're not making any money. Right. We're going the other direction. Mm. That's now fun. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and, uh, I remember. We were, we were at our desks and we, we had to give, we were putting a proposal together and we were like, Hey, we gotta give a reference. And we were going back to the same old references that we had. And this is pretty early on. This is over, this is probably 23, 24 years ago. Okay. Because the company's only about two and a half, three years old at this point. Okay. And I, we did have our standards. I remember interviewing a guy at, uh, Starbucks, uh, we, and he showed up. He had a big turban and no shirt on. Oh, for the interview. And we did not hire him. Maybe that was his shirt. He just had maybe wearing his hairpiece. So that, that, that was our standard. Like I, I'm, I'm proud of myself in the moment that at least I said no to somebody that was working for us. Yeah, yeah. At that time. And, uh, we, we really realized we need to re bring this thing in for how we, we gotta grow this thing properly. Yeah. And, um, I'll never forget the day we just sent, sent a lot of people home. Oh, really? And said, this is it. We're not, we're not doing it this way anymore. We, we, there was one really great thing with, uh, in our partnership was there was always a real strong conviction for doing it. Right. And when we found ourselves not doing it Right, um, which can happen. Yeah. Um, we made that adjustment really quick and we made it pretty, pretty harshly. So, yeah. That, that was a growth point. I think the first time I reached out to you about being on the podcast. Um. Was shortly after Mandy Mullen was on it the first time. Hmm. Was she one of those slacker employees that you rid of back in the day? No. No. She, she was a superstar. Okay. We were sad to see her go. I'm glad I wouldn't have hoped to ask that question. No, she was, she was great. That was, that was, uh, much more recent than that. Yeah. That timeframe. Yeah. That was a, that was a tough period of time. And then you, but with looking back, um, and the encouragement that we had give is the, when things don't go right and you make those, those hard conviction statements, it really propels you forward in the future for how, how much better business can be. Yeah. How much, how much who you fi start finding who you are and what you wanted. And, uh, I mean, our core values that we have now are really, really come down to what went wrong at a different point. Yeah. Interesting. And you take that, I mean, that's what systems are. Yeah. Yeah. Most systems in any startup company. Are established because of something going wrong. Yeah. Right. No, rarely does somebody go, we're doing this. Right. But I got a system over here that's totally different, right. That we're gonna do. It's usually something's going wrong. Yeah. We gotta have a system, we prevent that this going wrong. So you create that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And how do you guys, uh, communicate? Do you use certain softwares? Is it industry specific? Uh, what's that look like, um, for your project management? Yeah, Brian, we, we have the same, the same one that we've had for a lot of years. Uh, um, I, I would say about 20 years ago we were, we were playing some different software and, uh, Brian, uh, came to me and he's like, I got an idea of, uh, how we can do this better. Um, that's when Software for Builders was not really developed that well. We got into one and they were, we were actually one of the first ones and they wouldn't shape it to what we actually really needed. So we just dropped it. And Brian. Uh, hired an IT guy and Okay. I didn't see him for three months. Yeah. And what came out of it was a software program that we still use today. Interesting. So it's a homemade CRM. Yeah. Uh oh. So CR got your client information, everything does the bids, does the estimates manage or whatever. Some of that, the management. Yeah. Um, and then as far as, uh, and kind of a place to upload kind of progress and whatever. Yeah. Yep. Interesting. So that, that's, that's a pretty, uh, it was, it is pretty cool that it's still going too. Yeah. Yeah. Might need refining once in a while, but the basis of what's there is still Yeah. Still very, very well established, very strong, very intriguing. Yeah. Yeah. I've actually just recently had a guest on that does, it's basically his business is him plus 11 guys in India, Uhhuh. And he does a lot of custom software. Yeah. Things like what you're talking about here and. It was hard at first for me to really understand why that was better than just, you know, using monday.com or Salesforce or you know, whatever things that you can get off the shelf. But every business is so much different that the, the, the value proposition of having what you need and not what you don't is pretty intriguing. Yeah, for sure. For sure. So, and probably has been a, you know, you probably saved tens of thousands of dollars by now on having that instead. Uh, I'd like to think so. Yeah. Uh, it's, it's because it's all expensive. The, the one thing, the one thing that, um, when it was put together was it needed to be simple and simplicity was the big let's go after simple. Yeah. And everything gets so over complicated in that world. So it's very basic. Yeah. And it gets the job done and, yeah. Um. Yeah. Ha. Happy with that side of it. I started asking, um, or you started answering perhaps, but as Brian transitioned out of the business, like, have you, how have you, have you educated yourself on being better at the numbers side? Have you built the team that you and I would, I would say that, that I, I would say that that really, um, became passionate for, for me. Okay. Quite a while ago. Okay. So, um, but, uh, in working through, you know, everything from how we do our accounting all the way through, uh, understanding what the, the numbers in the business need to be, right. That, yeah. You go through a couple rough years, you get, you get real close to your books. Yeah. And, um, and it's, it's not something that's, uh, uh, very far from you. So yeah. That was there. Uh, one of the. One of the really amazing aspects is a about, uh, probably six or seven years before Brian retired, seven years, something like that. We, we had, uh, uh, two people in our company, um, Scott, who'd been with us since a year after we started. So he's been along this whole Yeah, yeah. Crazy town train that we were on in the early years, all the way into being a more refined and, uh, boutiquey. Boutiquey style. Right, right company. Right, right. Um, and then Kira, who's been with us for 17 years now, so somewhere around her. 10, 11th year of being alongside of us. They really came forward and, um, in a critical time in my life and my partner's life and said, Hey, we, we, you guys have been working your butts off, right? You guys have gotten the company this point. We'd really like to come in and support you on a, on a deeper level within, uh, general management. Mm-hmm. And that's what I was saying earlier Yeah. About being partners. So we understood they had similar thing, opposite, opposite, uh, skill sets. Um, really complimented each other. Mm-hmm. That's really cool. And they came in and, um, so Scott, uh, it's pretty unusual to, to hear about two general managers, but Scott is general manager of all of our operations. Okay. And, uh, KIRO is a GM over all of our business development administration. Yeah. And, um. Basically Yeah. Front of the house, back of the house in a way. Indoor outdoors. Yeah. Yeah. Of our office. So, um, yeah. Front of the house being Yeah. Out there serving the people, whatever. So, and, uh, so that allowed you and Brian even before he retired, to eventually have less of a burden in terms Yeah. We had, we had to, we had to reacclimate some, some things Yeah. Per life, life happens. Yeah. And when it happens, it's, it happens. Yeah. It's, it is, uh, sometimes it can be pretty harsh, so having, having people that have been with us Yeah. Who recognize that was, Hey, can, this is our opportunity for them. Yeah. I love it. I'll, anybody with ambition and desire, boy, I'm, I'm usually attracted to'em pretty quick, you know, uh, they didn't sit in a corner and wonder and worry, they came forward and said, Hey, can we, can this be our opportunity? Yeah. And, uh, so they, you know, they're, they are, um. They're today running all the day to day of, of high craft. Nice. And, uh, I work very closely with them and, uh, it, it is, it's great. And so we just celebrated Scott's 25th. Wow. And, um, uh, it's mind blowing to me that Yeah. Yeah. I'm that old. Right. But, right now, I'm very, very happy with what we have, what we're being able to do in the community. Yeah. Who, the people that we have. And, um, my plan is to, uh, do this for some time and Yeah. And enjoy this process of, of, it's a, it's, it's great. And we're getting to do some things that we've never done before, that we always wanted to as goals. Yeah. Right now. And, uh, man, it is awesome. So what's your mix now in terms of like, custom homes and, uh, that's great remodels and things like that? Yeah, that's a great question. Um, it's, you know, uh, typically in the past several years, we've had two or three custom homes going on per year. Okay. And the rest are remodels. Gotcha. So you're, you're, you're looking at, uh, a about 15% of what we do is in the custom home. Yeah. And the rest is all the remodel. Yep. Yep. Which have all gotten bigger and more complicated. Right. Seems like how, how can this cost as much as an entire house? How have the, like the land use code changes, uh, changed stuff for you guys around, or has it? Yeah. I, I think, I think, uh, um. Code and regulations, uh, have all changed. Right. And it's, I mean, if we, it could be airtight these days. Let, let's, if we, if we go back to, uh, when we, when we started, we weren't even really an official company. It's just, you know, you're just selling some work. Right. And I know there's plenty of, there's plenty of people out there doing this right now. And all sides just keep pounding, man. Just keep pounding, but, uh, and keep learning too. Yeah. There was no Home Depot on Harmony, right? That was all RV Park or like modular neighborhoods? Uh, there was the one little area by the Sam's Club, but the rest of it was not developed yet. And there was a builder square that was like where you could go. Okay. The version of a, uh, of a Home Depot. Okay. That the town even had. Okay. Uh, Sears Trussel was up in the, uh, well, it's not even a, um, up at the, uh, up across the street from Mosson now. So the code process and, and licensing. I mean, Larimer County, I, I got an invite from them probably. A little over 15 years ago and said, would you like to sit on a a, we're inviting a couple of contractors. Yeah. We're building a licensing board. Mm-hmm. And we'd like for to do a six month to one year process with a study of, should we have, how do we have licensed contractors? Right. In Larimer County. Went through that process with, uh, um Oh, so before 15 years ago, that wasn't true. No. There was no, there was no, there was no license of, other than you went down and you gave your information. Okay. It wasn't, it wasn't like a testing process like city of Fort Collins. Gotcha, gotcha. It was much more developed that way and City of Loveland was much more developed. Oh. But the county was not, the county was not. Okay. You know, um, yeah. When, even the first time we pulled a permit in Greeley, 30 years ago, I filled out a, uh, index card. Handwritten index card. Gave that to, and they gave me a builder number. You know, it wasn't really a like contractor's license, just here's your builder number, uh, and if we get too many reports of you fucking shit up, then we're gonna call you. Yeah. And then Loveland, I took that, that test in 96 and, and, uh, it, it was just a different environment, you know? Uh, so, um, but the regulations and the, um, amendments that the different cities have. And the codes. It's, yeah, it's, it's who does that? It's completely changed for you guys. Is that you or who? Your GM of construction. Like who has to stay up to date on what Even Bill? Well, that's, yeah, that's Scott. The Scott. Scott. Scott on over operations. He's, he's he's got that, yeah, he's got that now. It sends in and I'll call him. Yeah. Yeah. And we might have, it might be a, a conflict inside, you know, the con conversation might be colorful for what we're trying to do. In fact, I was just with Scott at the Big Builder show in Vegas this year. We hadn't been in quite a few years, and we said, let's, let's go see this. Yeah. And, uh, we took, um, uh, Zach, who's, uh, he's the one who puts all of our projects together. He oversees how they all come together. Mm-hmm. Uh, and uh, we went and we're walking around and 80% of the glass. That we're looking at. I mean, these are, this is a big show. Yeah. It's one of the biggest ones in the country. Yeah. For a, like a convention style show. And we were struggling to find those big beautiful patio doors that everybody wants mm-hmm. That will work within our codes here in really Colorado. They, none of them will meet the energy code. Oh, really? So our energy code is pretty, pretty high. Well, that's so dumb. Honestly, because like, not, my wife and I basically turn the heat off in May, turn it back on in September and live within whatever the world wants to make our temperature during that rest of that season. Yeah. This is a very temperate climate here. We don't have to be, so like North Dakota should insulate to R 50 maybe and have super duper duper good patio doors, but we don't really have to here. It's nice. I I understand what, what you, what you're saying with that. And I, I'm, I've always been real, had real. I, I love seeing how efficient the homes can be. Sure. And how well they can be put together. Um, with that, what people are seeing out there, it's, it's not what the, what people are seeing is what's advertised. What's advertised is a lot of really great patio doors in that one category in Florida. Right. Uh, when you look at the architectural magazines Yeah. You're looking at something in California Yep. Or Texas or San Diego. Yeah. And you're like, oh, I want that. Who, who doesn't? Right. How, how does that look? So Well that's why houses cost 200,000 in Texas. That would cost 400,000 in Right. Colorado part of it, you know. Um, so, uh, we just can't take that product here anymore. So really adjusting ourselves to the regulation. We actually, I will tell you at. Uh, I craft what our mindset is to embrace the regulation. Okay. Embrace. Alright. The amendments embrace the difficulty of what's gonna build better than against it, I suppose. Yeah. And it is a, it is a separation. I mean, this is an industry where, um, it used to be easier to get into than it is now. Yeah. I had no business with, Brian started this company with Brian all those years ago. Did you guys have any capital when you first started? No. We, we had nothing. We had two pickups that he owned his truck. I owned my truck. And what was your state of life at the time you were married? I, I anything? Uh, I had just got married in June Okay. Of 98. Okay. And we were up and running. I, I didn't even know Brian yet. I only knew Brian. I met Brian. I probably knew him a month before we started the company. Okay. I. Uh, and like I, the stars lined. Yeah. Yeah. It was a great year for me. 96. My wife and I, uh, uh, have been happily together all these years. Yeah. Cool. The company happily together all these years too. Yeah. So it was a great, 96 is a good vintage for, uh, the sailors. Do you have like, uh, kind of things you wanna do different or more, or regions you want to expand to, or you just kinda want to do more of what you've been doing as, I guess a boutique integrated design build firm? I, I think when, when we ask ourselves that question, we actually have a, um, this question is like pretty close, especially right now when, when you see like, uh, the, the market conditions or something, something's, it's a little wacky doodle right now. Yeah. Something we can't, we can't quite get our hands around it. Um, uh, we just want. To go into doing what we're doing right now on another level of that much better, that much, that much better for the client, that much better for our staff, um, the people around us. Yeah. Um, uh, and it, it, uh, that, that really, if, if the market's gonna, we can't do anything about where the market is. Yeah. Just keep doing our best. Right. But with what we've been given, how do we do it that much better? Well, you might get to that thousand dollars square foot. Uh, I don't want to, I don't wanna Sooner than you wanna, in fact, I, I'm sorry I even told you that.'cause now that's gonna be stuck in your head. Um, I think people think that's where it's at, but, uh, you know, um, high crafts, we we're very front, front loaded. Figure out what these projects are gonna take. Hmm. What, what? We don't do it during the project. So ev for us, everything's fixed price. That's what I was gonna ask next actually is, is how do you, how do you do it? Yeah. We, we, we don't know how to, we never could figure out how to do a time of material that worked out well for a client or a cost plus project. Yeah. Um, because you just, you didn't figure it all out on the front end. You just kind of start working. You can start sooner. Yeah. Yeah. You can start sooner, but with a fixed price, you better have everything figured out. Right. And you have to be willing to take the risk. I mean, well, yeah. That's part of it. Like when you've got a rising cost environment like you got now, it's like, well, I quoted this fixed price, but I'm not sure I can still honor it 60 days from now. Yeah. I mean, no. How fast do your projects What, what the turn fixed price. Fixed price for us. I mean, we didn't, we didn't go back to one client under construction during COVID. Hmm. We've never gone back to a client and just said, Hey, something just cost more now. Right. Now we did, we were doing an excavation job. About two years ago, and as we were digging the, the addition, yeah. We found, um, what we think was like a Studebaker station wagon buried in the backyard. Like okay. As we were digging, we had to talk to the client about that, you know? But, um, that's because nobody knew. Uh, sure. But for what our responsibility is, what's on that set of plans when we tell the client that's that's what it's gonna cost, that's what it can cost unless they drive it because they want more, more things in the process. Right. Um, and it's, they can upgrade along the way, but that's transparent. For sure. For sure. I mean, we did, we did. Uh, we have one home that we did, uh, and it's great whole house. All said, all done. Not one change order, not one scope adjustment. Not one really not one. Nothing. That house went. Exactly. And I'll tell you, our team loves that. I'm sure we're happy with that process. Yeah. You just grinding the, but we just get, build it. Um, but, uh, uh, and then we have others where. There, you know, you go, you know, clients trying to figure out what they want as it's going together. Yeah.'cause the visual side for that individual might've been harder or they, they just wanna keep adding to make it that much more. Right. You can bougie these houses out as much as you want, but the, uh, uh, the process of, um, the process of the cost plus for us seemed to be a failure point where we couldn't control the final outcome. Uh, because it was just here, here's an example. Mm-hmm. I took a phone call from First National Bank, I don't know how many years ago, and they said, Hey, we have a, we were in a fixed price that we were in that zone. We, we live in that, we've lived in that zone for over 20 years now. And, uh, but they said, Hey, we have a cost plus project here. Um, can you come in and meet with us? We need some support. Okay. And um, I went up and he said, we have, uh, the contractor is completely under contract. Like he, this, this gentleman has not done nothing wrong and our client has done nothing wrong other than trying to figure this out. And the bank's done nothing wrong. But here's where we are today. The project, 70% of the way done, the money is out a hundred percent of the way Funded. Yeah. Close to a hundred percent funded. Right. 70% done. And now it won't appraise for the final 30%. Oh, it was wild to watch that meeting go on. And it's a breakdown. So again, once again, this puts all the accountability on high craft. Yep. That we have to hold to what we said this is gonna cost. Now in design, things can change in design'cause we could be going down one path. Somebody finds that. Yeah. Per perfect bathtub. And I can't tell you who, I mean, we, we, we had a Sure. We, we, well, they see somebody's shower head that they just gotta have instead whatever. Yeah. Uh, we, we were, we were working for a gentleman in, uh, his, him and his wife on a house in Qua Hills in Loveland. Okay. It's West Loveland. Yeah. Yeah. Really cool neighborhood. Yeah. That's a really nice road there. Yeah. You kind of big views. And, uh, this guy's kind of a badass in the government. Okay. Like his, his, his life is, he's, he's not totally Thomas, like he was an undercover agent for the FBI or like, we still don't know. Like one day he's here, the next day he's, he's, yeah, he's in the desert. Desert wants the inside. He's in the desert someplace. I'll just put it that way. Okay. And we're, we're, we're designing his house and he comes into the design meeting. He's like, it's really important to me for my life, where I find my sanctuary is I like, I want a big Soaker hot tub or bathtub. Because I like to just go take a bath for like three hours and eat popcorn. Okay. All right. I couldn't have planned this one out, but if that's what you want, then we will figure this out. You are not the guy that I thought would be that that would be right. And you really learn on the inside of these. I really like how I exfoliate after so quickly. Yeah. The uh, the, um, watching these different personalities and people within the design side, it doesn't shock me anymore. What, with what is very important to somebody. Yeah. And it's, it's hard to gauge at the beginning, but that's why you walk through the design. You Right. I can't imagine. And the appraisal might not catch it. I, yeah. I can't imagine walking through that during construction with somebody where you didn't make those decisions upfront and now you're trying to figure out, I. Boy, they don't, we're, we're gonna just keep making decisions. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um, and the, the, the register keeps going. Rarely is anything ever come in less than what we thought. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it, it's pretty hard to find that in your life in any category. Sure. Um, well, and ultimately high craft accepts a lot more risk in building this. For sure. For sure. And presumably you catch a little bit more margin than you would if you were a cost plus builder sometimes, you know, here and there. I think, I think it, I think it comes down to, um, when it's all done, most, most builders are all working on the same category. Yeah. In that end. Um, I, I think it's just the way the business gets done. Yeah. You, it's really to get what you wanted, wanted when you, the whole thing. That way you have to be very efficient. Yeah. The other side of it, I mean, I just, the other side is you hear in, in the cost plus side, I just had, uh. Uh, a landscaper talked to me about, uh, a cost plus project that he, he did, we refer him on a lot and came to me and he said, Hey, there's a cost plus, um, builder. I was asked to, I was asked to do this bid, um, for him as he's putting this budget together for a cost plus. Um, and then, uh, I was asked on the backside, if we get this work, here's how much money I need to give him on the backside. Oh. Fixed price contract, you don't have any of that. You're just trying to figure out how do we get the job right? Right. You're trying to keep all your costs down. Right. And once you sign off on it, you sign off on it. Yeah. So you're just as motivated to keep the cost down as, and there's, I mean, hear me, hear me properly, there's some fabulous contractors that know how to do it that way. I just don't Fair, I've just never been able to figure it out. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I don't know how to control the costs in a cost plus project where it's, but the ones that can do good, they, they know their lane. I know my lane. And same with, same with, uh, um, fixed price contract as well as guaranteed schedule. We guarantee our schedules. Mm. Uh, that's big. We know that our clients, it's gonna run'em, uh, if, if they're, especially if they're moved out of a house, it's gonna run'em, uh, about three grand a month to rent a place if a lot of our clients move out and they'll, they'll rent a place. Sure. And we guarantee the schedules by that amount, by de by the day. Oh, is that right? So if we, if we don't hit our schedule Yeah. Then we're, we're in trouble. And the other side of that is construction loans that mm-hmm. People are paying interest on. So if that project runs two months longer or three months longer, you, you can see what happens And all of a sudden you're to, to their bank. You take up mortgage doesn't work. Right. Their fees, their bank fees are hitting'em pretty hard. That'd be their rent's hitting. No. So we, another thing that we couldn't control, our projects in the early years, were going longer than they should. You know, we were, we were, we were closing out a project and then, wait, why am I still here a month later meeting the client again? Well, and the damn painters didn't show up for three weeks after. Yeah. We thought this was gonna be done. Yeah, yeah. Well, I thought our job was done here. Why are we still here working? So the process came, let's have a fixed price contract. And what came outta that was absolutely beautiful. Yeah. People know that when we say we're gonna be done, we're gonna be done. Yeah. And, uh, we go after that pretty hard, so. Yeah. Fair enough. That's just, yeah, I get it. I I, I'm not pressing you on it. I'm just curious really about the decision. You, you brought me in here to understand just our, our business. These are your questions of for sure. What, you know, before we started this whole thing is what, what makes high craft tick and it's just high accountability. Yeah. Yeah. That seems like that's kind of at the foundation, the whole thing. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Is that like a, a core value hire for and stuff too? Is that kind of how you build that into the DNA? Yeah, there's, there's definitely, I mean, we, we don't, we don't, we don't hire somebody and say, uh, how do you feel about fixed price schedules? Right. So, uh, but what we, what we do is look for people that are going to be, um, I. Passionate about the different categories of how we do business. And they're gonna know that before they come in, you know, a project manager or superintendent that comes into high craft that doesn't want to be a part of really diving into a schedule and really understanding how a schedule can be done. Yeah. Which is hard. Yeah. Um, they probably aren't gonna work out that well. So we, we spend time in that category. Yeah. Yeah. Something that's lackadaisical about those details like that is just not gonna really fit and Yep. And then on the backside of that, we, you know, quality, the quality side, that's where we put the, you know, a five year warranty on everything we do. Yeah. And, but the team was up at a client's house, uh, from 12 years ago. Uh, doors were whacked out in a basement we did, which can happen, you know, and, uh, yeah, a little lifting, a little bit less, uh, Scott and. One of our other project managers went over there and just said, let's don't, don't worry about it. And they just popped all the trim, rehung the doors, put the trim back on. Yeah. Painter went in behind and we've already got one referral from that time. That's what I was gonna say. You probably get a referral. All, all I can say is, uh, yeah, you, you, um, do the best you can with what you got and take care of people the best you can. Yeah. And it works out pretty well. Long-term relationships sounds like a big part of your business too. How much do you get from referral these days? Or pa or our second time? Quite a bit. Yeah. Quite a bit. Yeah. It's a big, it's a big part of why we have work today. Yeah. If we were just waiting for everybody to feel good about what they read in the paper Right. We wouldn't have, there's enough enough. Yeah. I mean, what the click sell these days. Yeah. So, um, I want to call a short break. We'll have a potty break.. And also, uh, getting some later segments. Okay. Cool. We're back. Uh, one of the things I wanted to get back to is that location. Tell me about that location and did you do like a full remodel on that? Yeah. And and like I was saying earlier, the chiropractor Walker's office or whatever you got. Yeah. If you, if you ever look at that, at that building, look on the, on the, uh, there'll be the west side, the parking area side. Okay. Yep. And you'll just see a tremendous amount of like electrical boxes. Okay. Uh, and that was because everything came from some kind of, I, I don't know, world War ii, uh, but what was he dealing with all that? That's his x-ray machines and Okay. Yep. Uh, there was lead blankets hanging all like this useful. Yeah. And uh, it was big screens and the basement was just filled with this stuff. And a chiropractic chair that was not like a chiropractic chair you have now was something you like strapped yourself into. And I would just see this stuff and just. It, it was, uh, I just think I, I would never, I would never go to a chiropractor, uh, if, if this was the environment, go to the basement and strap yourself into this, uh, into this table. But we, he wanted, him and his wife wanted to, they, they raised their family in that house. Oh, wow. Had their business there. Uh, uh, the towers, the towers were, um, being built. Mm-hmm. Uh, when he was there. So he, he he added quite the history. Yeah. Yeah. Um, in fact, when, and so you rented it from him for a while? We did. And he was a colorful guy. Okay. That, that's my nice way. Very colorful. Yep. Um, in fact, the, well, 80 somethings they get them. Right. Know, they could be like they want. Well, and after he, you know, he fought in the war and, uh, um. But yeah, he let us know that the, you got the, the, uh, when we met with him, he's like, Hey, I just wanna make sure you guys, you guys aren't, uh, communists and okay. Like, he goes, you know, are you guys Russian communists? And I said, no, we're not like just Americans. Yeah. Uh, that's good. Uh, freedom loving Americans. And, uh, and we, we, we couldn't understand what he was talking about. He goes, okay, so I'll tell you why.'cause the Russian communists had been trying to buy this little place for me for years. I was like, wow, what's he talking about? Who would wanna buy this? What, what? I don't even understand. I couldn't get where he was going. Right, right. You, you're smiling and, but you're sir Mr. Walker. What, what, what's, what's, where is this going? Is this just a colorful, colorful guy or what? And, uh. What he was referring to is Park Lane Towers. Oh. And he s had us walk. Oh.'cause they wanted to buy that property. He, he had us walk to the edge of the sidewalk in the driveway and he pointed the tower.'cause that tower goes straight up outta that back of that house. Right. And he said, that's Soviet architecture. Oh. And I said, well, okay. Actually, I see your point. Uh, right. And he goes, and they've been wanting to buy it and I'm not gonna let'em tear this house down and build another one of those, which they couldn't anyways. Right. But that gave you an insight to who this gentleman was. Yes. Yes. He did not want Soviet architecture over his house. And uh, um, if you look next time you drive by there and look at the, look at the little house with the tower behind it, you can see a little insight of who this guy was. Yeah. And, uh, so we promised him we would never tear it down and build a tower. Good. Um. And ultimately our goal was, is we'll never have a model home. We, we weren't, again, we're not track house builders. We're not, we're not production builders. Right. Uh, and we're not gonna, country space is unique ultimately. Yeah. Yeah. And so we're not gonna have model home, and we couldn't think of a better place for us to have kind of a showroom of what we do than a little old house. Hmm. And we had looked at a few around. Yeah. And that was back when house was a one-way street. Right? Yeah. And Mulberry was a two lane, there wasn't a big middle lane for turning left or right. Mm-hmm. Like it was, everything was a little, uh, quieter at that time. Mm-hmm. And that street wasn't exactly as heavy traffic as it is now. Right, right. Well, and I live on La Porte. Which at that time was two lanes each way, and they downsized that, so that's awesome. Yeah. Good for you. Thanks Mulberry, for taking that extra traffic from us. But, uh, um, we knew it'd be seen there on Mulberry, and we, you know, the, the brick there was hardly any cement between the brick. Uh, it was worn out. The roof was as old as the house was. Yep. Uh, and there really was next to no landscaping. Um, the driveway was, uh, sunken because of a water issue from the tower that w just dumped all the water onto that property. Mm. And, um, the, so the driveway sink down about foot fricking communist foot, foot and a half once you drove in, it's a communist fault. His driver was sunken like that. So, but Brian and I walked it and we're like, this is amazing. Right. And then, uh, um, Earl, Earl, uh, decided to, he's like, well, I'll sell it to you guys. So we, uh, we let'em know once again that we, we didn't have any money tear down. I don't know how we're gonna get it. I don't know how we're gonna pay for it. Went to the bank, right? Went to, uh, went to the bank and the bank's like, you guys have no money. You guys just started a company and Right, you're paperwork. We really are looking for a different color of, of a, uh, financial spreadsheet than the color you guys have. Um, you have no capital, so you really have no equity in what you've started. Uh, we're not gonna lend you any money. So we went to Earl and Earl said, well, it's'cause the banks are run by communists. By the government Communists, yeah. All of that. And I could go into more of what he said, no we shouldn't. And he said, I'm going to, uh, I'll carry that up for you guys. I'm gonna, I'm gonna carry you guys. Yeah. So, um, and we told the bank and the bank's like, you better sign that as fast you can. So, and it was great. It was just a little story of how we Yeah. How we ended up with the place. But, um, did you remodel it right away? Took a period of time. Yeah. And, uh, and have you remodeled it since we've been remodeling, kinda. We show off new stuff here and there from period of time, do a room. And it's when you, when you, when you are involved in a creative, uh, you're just involved in a creative business for or, or something, you really drive a lot in a creative, you find yourself that you love another creative that surrounds it. For me, that was landscaping. Mm-hmm. And Brian was the same way. Mm. We, we were like, Hey, we, we gotta, let's do something amazing with this place. Yeah. And then let's landscape it. So, and now the landscape's fully matured and Yeah. You know, it took a lot of years and, um. Uh, it, it, it's, it's great. But yes, the inside has been done a few times. Yeah. Um, mainly updating though, not really full heavy remodeling. Okay. Um, the ma, so, well, there's only so much like so many walls, right. You do colors and Right, right. Countertops or whatever. We, we did have to do some, some stuff in the early years. There was a, there was, there was a, I think we had over 50 patches we had to do in the walls. Oh. Um, the history of that house. Plaster walls. Yeah. Yeah. The history of that house was, it was the, it was a mayor of Fort Collins. Oh, is that right? It was his home. It was crooked. Okay. And, uh, no, not a crooked government official. Yeah. The, so the crooked mayor, this is all for Mr. Walker. So if, if I'm, if I'm wrong in any of this or Yeah. A family, I'm accusing if I heard somebody's family for Mr. Mayor, you know, it just, this is just for Mr. Walker. I, I love these stories though. And he says, uh. He says, the reason why there's holes all over in here is because I found some money underneath a vanity when I was fixing a sink that was hidden Oh. From the old mayor. And then he became obsessed that maybe there might be some more money. Right. But then it was Oh, for 90 after that. Oh, for 90 There were, there's, there's, there was nothing more to be found. Um, but we wanted to remodel it with the, with the original character. Yeah. Uh, we got, we, we went to the city when the city code was changing on windows, and the city was awesome. Uh, and said, keep the old windows that you guys have, uh, just make'em as efficient as you can. Yeah. Well, no, we couldn't change. Oh, you can't even change the glass. We, we decided we didn't want to change the glass. Um, but we put in, you know, we redid the boiler system to be where it would be, uh, meet that at the best we could. Yeah. Uh, and then, uh. You know, you're updating everything on that, on that old building. But there's a few cool things. If you go in the, in the little garage where we, we do our Stu studio work, we converted the whole thing to commercial. So the city was heavily involved with us at that stage. Oh, gotcha. Um, but if you go into the old, the old Garage, which is a design studio where, you know, people are making their decisions on what they want the interiors to look like. Sure. Uh, there's two indentions on the back wall from their, the family Buick, just going a little too far forward and, and dented the brick and, uh, the brick masons, when we're having to redo all the tuck pointing, said, do you want us to fix this? Definitely Not just, just grout it in, because I, I like those two indent that's here, right there. Yeah. So the, uh, um, but we knew that that would be a place where we could, uh, show our work. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, create the. Um, energy that we want for our clients to feel when they come in and sit down with us, the calmness of what a home is and, um, yeah. Yeah. And so we've really kept it in that, in that kind of a, um, environment. Is the mulberry pool between you and the Lincoln Center, or are you right? No, we're close to the, we're closer to the Lincoln Center, the Mulberry Pool's right. On the other side. Okay. So probably the Lincoln Center, uh, proximity has sold you as many houses as the Mulberry traffic hope going by. Right. I hope like, because it's, it's those like people that go to shows at the Lincoln Center also sometimes do fancy remodels Yeah. And custom homes and stuff. Right, right. Yeah. And then when you, uh. You know, we got, we got on some boards in the early years, we, we wanted to be a part of the community. Sure. So, um, Brian, Brian went to, uh, the Symphony Oh sure. And he was on the board there. Yeah. Yeah. So we picked him really close to office. I went to open stage theater. I knew nothing about acting, nothing about running a theater. Yeah. Yeah. But I got asked what I like, but it was very convenient by the locations to our office for those meetings. And, uh, that's, uh, that's my world right now, this office and, and my house is on LaPorte and Whittcomb roughly. Okay. And then, uh, my rotary club is at Ginger and Baker, which is roughly half from my house to my office. Yeah, that's gr That's great. So pretty easy living. Your uh, your footprint is pretty small. It is. I like it. Yeah. Yeah. I like you can drive that big old ambulance out there. My, my carbon footprint is still pretty small. I, I couldn't find a place to park'cause that ambulance takes up three parking spots. It's just about, just about. So, but um, yeah, so that's, that, that's how the, uh, the, the office has been. Um, yeah. Wonderful. You're probably hybrid now with a lot of people in the field and stuff, or can you fit all the people? Yeah. No, we in the room together or do you do that sometimes? I think if, uh, if you were to ask Kira, she would say, I, I love that we're in this office'cause it won't allow us to grow so many people. Right. You have to stay a boutique. Yeah. We integrated, I sent her a design build uh, a couple years ago. I sent her a. Um, an ad. It was a, it was a, uh, interior design ad my, a company in Japan for a small office space in Japan. Mm-hmm. Right. And I said, Hey, we could do this. And it was, it was literally fit like 45 people a day. Like little, literally. It was so creative. But your personal space, very, very small. Back to back at each chair. Yeah, it's double desk. Double. It was a double desk system with like a little Yep. Like bunk bed, but desk. Yeah. Perfect. And, uh, she, she said, uh, that's, that's really funny. But, um, I, I really like the size we are now, but No, we, we, um, yeah, I mean, you, you take what we need to get done outta the office and everybody it works. Yeah. Yeah. Works pretty well. Most of that work is field work anyway stuff. Yeah. Yeah. It works real well. And what's your like, team engagement? Do you have like a monthly full staff meetings and things like that? Or how do you connect with the team about the stuff we're doing, the new staff, ours, ours is quarterly. Quarterly, okay. Um, uh, and, um, it's. It, it, it's so interactive with the team every day. Right. And how that works that we find kind of shortlist anyway. We find, we find quarterly works pretty well. Yeah. Fair enough. Yeah. Yeah. The, um, it, it's, you know, you. You try to not be a dysfunctional family. You want to, but it is a family business. Right, right. So, and in that there's a lot of, just a lot of interaction. So, yeah. Yeah. So quarterly works great for, for trust, a lot of long term employees. And if, if we need to have one earlier than that, if you're great, it's later than that emergency quarterly. Yeah. We're not, we're not, it doesn't hurt anybody's feelings if we're like, Hey, it's not gonna be in June, it's gonna be in July. Yeah. Everybody's like, great. Nobody wants a breakfast burrito that bad. So. Fair enough. Um. Okay, so now is the time We got our ping pong ball challenge, and I heard from Dwight during the break that, uh, the winner can stop by high craft builders, uh, to get their swag. So it could be a hat, could be a maybe not a hoodie. That hoodie looks pretty premium, but we see, I'm not gonna tell. It might be, it might, we might surprise you what you get at Love Thermos. You guys, you got pretty good swag. Yeah, we swag. We love swag. We love swag. Cool. So, um, the, the, the game is that you gotta pull three of these balls and answer all three questions and then I'm the decider of which answer to the question wins the prize. Great. So it's our way of making sure people listen all the way through the podcast and, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So grab three of these. You can keep that right over there if you, alright. And then I got three, I've got this list of questions that match up to the numbers. Okay. Associated. So your first number please. Eight. What, what music or artist reminds you of your childhood? Do you have a genre, a favorite band from back in the day and back in Cali? Yeah, I mean, yeah, there's quite a, i I, I definitely grew up in a mixed, mixed culture. Um, anything, anything on, uh, Spanish radio, really anything? Yeah, I grew up our town, the town I grew up in doubled and shrank twice a year in population. Oh, wow. So it was a, it was a, it was a migrant workers type. Uh, yeah. So it was, it was, are you Spanish speaking? It was a migrant town, uh, of, and, uh, Spanish speaking. Uh, I'd like to think so. If, uh, if you talk to, uh, my Spanish or Mexican compadres, they would tell you, they're like, yeah, you're terrible. You think gr go greggo Spanish. But my mom, my mom saw a hundred percent full fledge. Uh oh, is that right? Mexican girl from gr from Greeley. So, okay, okay. Yeah. Yeah. My dad's as white as rice. And where's he, what's his family heritage? He's, uh, German. German. German. Irish English. German English, you know. Yeah. Whatever. Mixed white bread mix. Mixed European. Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. So, um, but, uh, uh. So anything on Spanish radio. Interesting. And then from there, you, I grew up in the eighties and it was a cool time. So it was a cool time for music. Yeah. I guess I, I was a little bit after, but like, guns N Roses and Poison the hair bands. It was before that. No, it wasn't hair bands. It would be, it would be more, uh, more like, uh, more alternative stuff. Rolling Stone. It would be more like REM. Okay. Yep. You'd throw me, throw me in that category. So, and then, uh, you throw in some, uh, you know, uh, some classic country of that time, so you, you pick it, the old Hank Everyth things. But we went to everything we went, you know, uh, it was, it was, it was all good. I, I, I, I, I love culture. I love, I love people. And when that's the case, you tend to like a lot of different music, but yeah, I do. Yeah. You, you play some, uh. Play some, uh, into kale on, uh, LATI. Yeah. Uh, radio station. And I'm, I'm with you. I actually, I actually enjoy the Spanish radio stations and I'll stop on them sometimes when I'm traveling with my wife. Yeah. And she's like, why are you stopping here? I'm like, I don't know. I'd like it, you know, I can't understand it. I don't, you know, but I like it. No, it's good. It's good. That's a Friday, every Friday. Uh, that was what was blasted. Working construction on the job sites growing up, you know, everybody wanted to listen, whatever the, you know, whatever the radio station was. Yeah. But Friday, that was reserved for the, the, let's lat gra. Got it. Got it. I dig it. All right, next. Number nine. What's the strangest way you've ever inju injured yourself? That's the first time for that question. Uh, well, he was, I was just at a, uh, a year ago I was dancing to a, uh, I was. Lab? Not really. It's aggressive. I was, I, I was at, I was at home and, uh, we were, uh, just a year ago tore my MCL, uh, really, uh, dancing to, uh, the song Laona with, uh, uh, my friend's wife who's of, uh, Mexican descent. And she wanted, I love it. She wanted to run, uh, she wanted to lead our dancing, and I wanted to lead dancing. I'm the one that with the torn MCL. Okay. But, uh, no. If, um, my, uh, left, I would say my left foam Okay. Is, uh, from the days of framing is, uh, I, I did, uh. It took a, it took a beating. Be front. I've, I shot it a couple times with a nail gun. Yeah. And, and I, I just hit it with a hammer a few times. There's a reason why I didn't play a whole lot of sports in high school. I just didn't have that coordination. It took me a little bit to figure out, spill harder. Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, my thumb is just healing. I cut the end off of it with the chef knife. Yeah. Uh, which is rare.'cause usually I cut the end off of this finger. Okay. I've cut the end off of this finger like five times with my chef knife. Well, you and I, you and I should not late. You and I should not be with tools together. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, question 3 25 25, what's one thing on your bucket list that you're determined to accomplish? Um, it's, it's, it's really easy for me. It goes right. I mean, my mind goes right to it, but, uh, uh. My wife and I love, we love travel. Okay. And, um, we've, uh, we were in a, I've been in a builder group that traveled together, you know, to different locations. Oh, yeah, yeah. Twice, twice a year. Okay. A peer group. Yep. O open book, tough love. Yeah. We haven't really talked much about that. Mainly mainly east coast companies, so lot of tough love. Right. Uh, they're very direct out there. Um, and feel really fortunate by how much of the United States we've been able to see in that process. Uh, the, the, there's just the, the beauty around, um, the different, the landscapes to just beautiful diversity of this country. Right. Like we're, yeah. Just, just seeing so many different places. But in all of our travels that we've done, and, uh, my father-in-law's from Denmark and we gotta go see, you know, we've seen a little bit of Europe and we've, we've done some travel through there and, um. But I will tell you, we, we love, absolutely love hitching our trailer behind the truck. I don't know if it's because we're terrible packers. Like a camper trailer. Yeah. Yeah. Just like a little, a little, little tiny. And it's not too tiny. It's it just a little, little camp camper trailer for you guys. And Yeah, I was saying I, I don't know if it's because we're terrible at packing and my wife's terrible at trying to figure out how much groceries we need so we just can load it up or Right. We just have our home on wheels or we just don't like bathrooms at gas stations. But we, we love that. And huh. Uh, we really would. We, it, it's a, it's a life goal to drive up into Alaska. See Northwest Territories. My wife's a Canadian girl from Vancouver. Oh, is that right? Okay. So spend some time in that, that Western Canada side and take the two month drive to Alaska and back or something like that. I mean, that's, that's it. Burns. It burns pretty easy. Yeah. In my heart for, for something that I know that that's a, that's a life goal right there. I should have you talk to my dad. Uh,'cause he went up about three years ago. He bought like this big, burly driving truck that's four wheel drive and on nice 36 inch tires. Good for him. Or some baloney, like it's a big, big dog and they. Fought the roads and the this and that, and got detoured and detoured again. Yeah. And got to Alaska and, but not to where they were gonna go. Like they were so sick of traveling that they like turned around and went back home. But that's my dad. My dad's a homebody like a week. He's ready to go home usually. Yeah. I, I, I just can't. But anyway, I think it's, it's, it's two parts to where no day really matters. Yeah. You know, when, when you're in business, it's a hard part. You go on a trip Yep. And you're trying to do it all. Yep. Especially when the kids are little, you know, every day has to count. Yep. Because you got limited amounts of it. Totally. Yeah. We got a long weekend a lot of times. So I think that the, the, the Alaska or Northwest Territory Drive really comes down to, uh, not just seeing and driving. It's the fact that you've taken your life to where Yeah. Yeah. If we don't get anything done today, no problem. Yeah. Yeah. I'm very, I'm very envious of that situation and I, I do that as a life goal to hit. Is there a season in high craft builders, uh, where you're less busy? No. If it is, it's in the winter time when you're can't really drive to Alaska and winter time. Every Yeah. Everybody's, everybody's, everybody's cranking and just, I mean, I mean, and you can be, you can be less busy with what you think we should be doing. Yes. We can't paint in the exterior homes, or we can't pour foundations in January. Right. Real easy. But there's always something, you know, I mean, it's, uh, if I was gonna say this year, this year, the busyness was all centered around, uh, lining up what our insurance company requires, what our trade insurance company requires. Mm-hmm. What the attorneys require. And getting everybody on the same page so that we can sit down and just do business. Yeah. That's not even with a client, that's just with working with trades. The insurance world has changed so much. Uh, and this year, you know, earlier we were talking about regulations. At least we know what we're fighting with there. Yeah. Okay. Alright. We just need to do this When we build houses now it might cost more money. We'll have to educate the client. We'll work through it, but we just have to do it. That's just what it's, it's really challenging. Yeah. To you have to, the concern is you haven't done anything wrong, but No, no. The marketplace is punishing you. Yeah. But you have to, at this point, you cannot, and this is where, um, uh, a, a homeowner really needs to be aware. You cannot just hire somebody to pour a foundation for an addition anymore. And not know everything about their insurance and not have your insurance Totally approve it and go through it because, uh, the insurance companies all have their ways that they want to do business and it isn't up to you. Yeah. So, and we got a great partnership there, so don't get me wrong, but it was a, a lot of work to go through that. So that was, yeah. There's always, there's always something. Even, even if you're not pouring concrete Sure. Or you're, or painting walls. Yep. Drawing designs. In my role, there's always drawing plans. There's always work. Yep. Um, I give so much credit to Ki and Scott, uh, for how much they have on their plate. I mean, it's, it's a tremendous amount. Yeah. And, uh, so, uh, wintertime, if somebody, if we hit winter and somebody catches a cold, I think enjoy it. Enjoy that cold. Good time out. That's great. A few days lay on the couch. That's amazing. By the way, for the, the listeners out there, the Spanish music will say is the, the winner of the first question that Dwight answered. Okay. And, uh, so write us on either LinkedIn or on our Instagram channel for the Loco experience. And with that answer, first winner will get introduced and uh, we'll send you down there to get some sway. That's great. You say it very nicely. The Spanish music. Yes. In the town I grew up in, all of our friends, they were just, it was, it was Mexican cowboy music. Oh, well, straight up Mexican cowboy. I like it. I'm a, it was fun. North Dakotan Cowboy. So, pretty fun. Let's talk about your, your family. Um, you've mentioned your wife a couple times, but we haven't gotten too much in Where did, where did you find her along the journey? Uh, I, when I moved to Colorado, um, I just threw it all in a truck looking for, there was work here. Yeah. Um, in a cyclical market. You said your mom was here too, right? Well, my mom, my mom and dad, they, they, they've been married for. 55 years now, but, um, they got married right outta high school and raised us where my dad was from, but my mom was from here in Greeley, so. Oh, I see. We knew the area for going back and forth, um, in that the, uh, uh, so we, we, yeah. This is the, a interesting, um, background there, but it pretty, pretty cool. My mom's family goes all the way back to the, uh, Spanish settlements of the San Luis Valley. Oh, wow. San Luis Valley and Yeah. How they, my wife and I were just down there in, in, uh, that Tao Santa Fe. Yeah. And different, and, and in San Luis Valley. And we met a young couple, and one of the things I think I observed is that there's, and not just them, but some others, is that there's kind of the, like the old Spanish Cowboys Yeah. And stuff. And so they're Oh yeah. Tend to be more. More Spanish in appearance, less indigenous, if you will. And then a lot of, yeah, indigenous intermixing as well, but that cowboy culture, yeah, that's, that San Luis Valley is pretty heavy, so, yeah. Um, yeah, my mom was from her, her family goes backdate there. Yeah. Quieter ways around 1800. And then, and then, uh, and they ended up in Greeley, um, because they were in, um, irrigation. Okay. So family goes back pretty good that way. Um, but yeah, my, my wife Dana, and we've been, uh, um, like I said earlier, married since 96. Yep. Um, and, uh, and then we have, uh, you find her here in Fort Collins and Greeley. Yeah. Yeah. When I, when I first moved here, I, I, um, needed, I, I didn't know anybody really. Right. Uh, so, uh, uh. I, I had a cousin and, uh, she was in, in high school, and I, I remember telling her, yeah, I'm coming out. Uh, I'm not gonna know anybody. She goes, you know, I work with this girl who goes to college, right? I said, really? Can I get her phone number? And uh, and, uh, just like that. And she's like, oh, I'll get you her phone number. So she gave me a phone number and I called it, and it was, uh, yeah, here we are. Is that right? Three kids later. So, yeah. Ah, that's really fun. Yeah, it was great. Is there, uh, like you were already kind of a, a freewheeling builder type scraping together, living in some fashion, so starting a business and stuff wasn't really that intimidating for Dana. I I, for you? I think, I think she saw, um, when, when we met, I had talked a contractor out of, uh, Loveland and to let me build a house for him. Okay. He, he was the, he was the contractor. Mm-hmm. And he, he needed somebody to. Frame side, put the windows in to t Typical framing contractor. Yeah. Duties. Um, and it was in Bonner Peak Ranch. Mm-hmm. Uh, north of town. Sure. I didn't even know where that was. I just said, okay, I'll do it. Right. And he's like, well, here's, here's what it pays. I said, great. Four bucks a square foot. I'll, I'll take care of all that work. And I spent the entire winter up there on a, on a, oh boy. Very, uh, it's windier up there than it is here in town. Huh. A nice custom home. Okay. Uh. That was way beyond my skillset at the time. Mm-hmm. And I just had to forge through it. And, uh, me and a young guy who, uh, in a lot of ways that young, young man, uh, Justin knew more than what I knew. Uh, we just worked up there every day and I remember, yeah. It was Wendy, we worked with, I, I'd never worked with ski goggles on before, and it was just because it was so windy, it was always dusty. Yeah. It was the, the sawdust was always, so we just would work in the wind and Dana, uh, school would get out at CSU and she'd come up and I, she swept that job site every day knowing that I wouldn't get to be done until I had that place cleaned up. Hmm. I always, I always was very drawn to a clean job site at the end of the day. And so we kind of, in a weird way, kind of grew up together a little bit. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Before high crafts. The, the birth of high craft. Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. So, um, how old are your kiddos? You said you got three? Uh, yeah. Yep. I've got, uh, our, uh, daughter Morgan. She's 24. Okay. And she's, uh, she's, uh, in the ranching world. Alright. Uh, she's a cowgirl and our son, Hayden, he's over at Mesa. Uh Okay. In, uh, over Grand Junction, right? Yep. Yep, yep. And uh, and then our daughter Jordan, and our daughter Jordan, we actually lost her daughter Jordan, uh, eight, nine years ago. Oh, I'm so sorry. Uh, uh, tough situation. Um, down at Children's. So, uh, yeah, we hold her, uh. Very close. We're a pretty tight knit family. I've great in-laws all the way through the siblings and, and then my, my, I have three brothers and, uh, so pretty close family. So we, we know what family is and we hold onto to the, we hold to our three kids pretty tight. What, uh, what are your, um, aspirations for grandkid timing? Do your kids have significant others yet? You're, no. You're older. Two. No. You know, maybe, maybe I, maybe they need to be sitting here and you can talk to'em about that for me. Well, they could just listen to this podcast, you know, they're young. They're young, so they are, um, and, uh, you know, I think, uh, I think all kids want that, uh, or a a lot do. Uh, it is just, um. Uh, they, we've encouraged them to, uh, enjoy their Yeah. Be, be, they don't have to figure it out right away and just let that, let that come when it comes on a real, on a real natural level. Yeah. And so, yeah, not, not yet, but the day it happens, I'll tell you, we'll be, that'll be sure. That'll be a pretty awesome day. Yeah. Yeah. Um, what advice would you have for, for entrepreneurial minded people, maybe especially in the, in the building trades, um, that would try to start something today, even like you had kind of an apprenticeship that to some extent prepared you, but what, what would you need to do to be able to Yeah. Get something off the ground in today's marketplace? Learn. You know, really, really dig in. It doesn't need to be, I mean, I was, I was pretty anxious as a young man to get going as soon as possible. Yeah. Uh, it kind of feels fairly similar to me talking to my kids of Right. And there's a big thing is there's not more freedom in it. I think there's a falsification of like, Hey, if I do this, I'm gonna have more freedom. I get to, I get to do, say and do what I want to do. Yeah. Um, be the boss man instead of the Yeah. Yeah. And they, you know, if I, I tell, I tell most of them, you know, here's, here's the, here's the deal. You know, I can't tell you how many years when we started high craft, I mean, it was well into the maturity of high craft old, our, our office, 6:00 AM And, um, I don't think I, I, I mean, I, I literally never, never really ate breakfast with my kids except for Sunday morning. Yeah. Um, and that was through Saturday. Yeah. Saturday. Brian and I were good about staying at noon. We're outta here. Mm-hmm. But six to six. And then, you know, being on, you want to be in the community. So you're at a, you're at a board meeting of some type and yeah, really think that through, um, that that's something you want. So, and alignment with your spouse or significant other is very important in that as well.'cause they, there is some sacrifice that, that happens in that. And then from there, really good people around you. I mean, for me it was a builder group. Yeah. We joined our builder group. It was the, uh, third day after nine 11, and it was in DC and we saw the Pentagon was smoking. Oh, wow. And, but we wanted in this group so bad and they said, this is gonna happen. You have to be there. And we found out two days before and we went one of the best decisions ever. Um, yeah, talk to me about that. Like, and for, to set the stage maybe a little bit a, a builder group is. Kind of like what local think Tank does in that it's pure advisory, but in, in this case, it's all builders, but from the country. Yeah. This, this one's like, like companies. Yeah. I actually, uh, as I've spent time on local think tank, uh, really like the format because it's different opinions, different different industries, different industries. There is something to say for that, for the head trash that we all carry. Yeah. Yeah. In what we think business, sometimes they get industry think going on industry think is terrible. Yeah. Um, but uh, yeah, the one I was in is, uh, and in, in today, uh, it's typically 10 to 20 companies. Uh, the one I'm in is in 10. Um, uh, and it is twice a year, onsite meetings for three days. And, uh, uh, a lot of swat. Announced type. Mm-hmm. Go through some, so always taking a good close look at yourself and your marketplace. Yeah. And then, um, uh, that one that's been really good for us. Was that always your role or did, was Brian also involved with that? Brian, can you both go? Brian, Brian and I did that together. Oh, I see. Okay. Yeah. When in fact, the one, the, the night Brian retired and we threw him a party. I, and I was, I of course I gotta take, I gotta say a few words, right? Sure, of course. Um, and uh, I calculated it and I think it was just shy of six months that Brian was my roommate, so, and now 24. Oh right. All 24 years building group trips and stuff sitting on sitting. Drive into meetings or, you know, going to a conference or whatever. And we always shared a room. Sure. All, all those years. Yeah. We, we never, we never, never thought of like, Hey, you wanna get your own room? That sounds expensive. We're not doing that. What are we gonna do? Like, be bored. Yeah. Separately. So, um, um, but, uh, yeah, we went, we did that together and that created a lot of alignment and allowed for us to look at the co look at our own company from 10,000 feet rather than from you. The, it is very hard inside the bars of it issue, if you will. And our, our style business is very grassroots business. And when you're grassroots, that means you're in the ground, you're in the soil, you're in the grass, you're in the, you're in the weeds. Mm-hmm. Um, it's pretty important to, yeah. Gotta keep your finger right. All the way up there to get outta that front line. Yeah. Get outta that.'cause, uh, looking down, I mean, how many times have you gotten on an airplane and it's not even metaphorically right. And you're flying and you can see the cars driving around down below and everything's so small. And that's what really, that's the magic. Yeah. Yeah. That's intriguing. So, oh, wow. 10,000 feet. Here we go. Is there, uh, were there any really big decisions from, from those seasons that the builders, or was it more of a slow polishing or like going to the fixed price? Was that something No, we did that. We, that ourselves, I think it was, I think it was, um, slow polishing. Yeah. I think, I think that's actually the benefit of it, because we want, for the big change, we want for the, you make a, you make a the use button. You make a, you make a change in your company, right? You make a, you make a, a well thought out, you put together a big plan, you think it through and you analyze it, and you put it together and you put it into action. And it takes six months to a year to see it for fruition. Yeah. Yeah. And you just sit there going, come on. Right. I want this today. Right. And one of the building that software that you were talking about, for example Yeah. One of the, uh, multi-month. The, the young, the young contractor professional, uh, or wanting to, I don't care if it's a handyman service anymore. Sure. Okay. I mean, in fact, they, that, that, that market is got from, they're probably a better market for a lot of people. Opportunity. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. They avoid, uh, a ton of regulation, my handyman to put this up for me. Yeah. They, they avoid, they avoid so many things that you have to do. Yep. And they're, we don't have a handyman service. We're pretty focused on what we, we, we like to stay in our lane, but the, um, it, it's a, it's a tremendous business, but we are naturally optimistic. Right. When you start a company, you're very optimistic. Yeah. Um. You gotta think through some of that optimism sometimes. Yeah, sometimes That's been a hard lesson. So the market ISN there. Yeah, I've, I've learned that lesson for myself, like, man, I was a, maybe a little optimistic in there. Been there too. Oh, I forgot to calculate taxes. Talk about that next time we put a system in place, place to make sure we catch that next time. So, um, but yeah, I, I, uh, um, but like I said, the, the, this next generation of, and I was talking to my son and he's, there's so much has been given to this generation that they, the work ethic isn't there. These other negatives that you see around, I don't. I'm not a part of that. Yeah. I mean, uh, your experience different high craft team is Yeah. There's a lot of young people on high craft. They're amazing people. They work really hard. They are very conscious of what they're doing and how they're doing it. Yeah. All the way through to, I I just had, uh, a handful of college aged boys at the, at the, uh, house, you know, and they're, they, they all hit 21, so they're, they're pretty Okay. It's like your son and his friends or something. Yeah, yeah. They're all, they're enjoying their, their beers and, you know, they're, um, every single one of'em are hard working, devoted to good work, work ethic, um, in what they do. And it's impressive. And then I was in a conversation this morning with my daughter early over. We were having coffee and she was, she was telling me, um, about these, that the ranching industry, it's these young girls. Hmm. They're in their early to early twenties to early thirties that are like taking that world by storm right now. Is that right? And, um, so I, I love it. Is this a cow calf operation? Is that what she's up to? No, she's, well, she, it, it, it, it is. But the, the, the greater ranch is, is usually tied to the bigger ranches are tied to farming. Sure. And every, every aspect of, of land management as well as animal management. So, um, interesting. She's, uh, so these young people with that much gumption Yeah. That much energy and that desire to work, the ones that really want it, um, go for it. There's a lot to learn. Yeah. Yeah. There's mistakes are gonna be had. Yeah. Yeah. But mistakes create systems. That's right. That's right. We wouldn't have systems if we didn't make mistakes. Failures. Can borderline, is it, was this too big of a failure or was it not? But it creates the, the weight of how you make your decisions in the future. One thing I like to say about local think tank is that it's, uh, it's nice to learn from the mistakes of others sometimes instead of just your own. Yeah. You know, have that forum where, you know what, if you want, you think this sounds like a good idea to have that commission system in there. Yeah. But I tried that and it was a piece of crap. I did, I did enjoy. That was one of the things we got from our builder group was the, uh, we were always the youngest guys. Oh, is that right? Yeah. In the room. Yeah. Yeah. And now I'm in a group where turned into one of the older guys. Yeah. Which is a little disappointing. That's how it goes. Um, and it's, uh, the, the men and women in there are just incredible. But it's always to have, uh. To learn from your elders. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and the young kids pick up new tricks faster sometimes, you know, especially with technology. Oh, they got so many, they got so many tools and they just learn how to do anything on YouTube. Yeah. Like, oh, I don't know how to do that. Yeah. Okay. Now I do. Well, you, I, I was just on, uh, I was just doing some research on an AI platform for, um, exterior landscapes. Oh, wow. Yeah. And, uh, how, how that, how that work. I mean. You make a whole movie these days. The tools, the tools are at your fingertips. Yeah. No, that's pretty dynamic that we, that we had to like, I mean it's No, you're drawing lines for hours Yeah. To do anything close. It's, it's, it's, it's, no, I mean, I, I was, I was liking it to, you know, when the original bicycle came out, had the one big huge wheel on the front. Sure. Little tiny one on the back. Yeah. And it was, uh, there was no, there was no gear difference. You pedaled as it moved, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yep. And then, um, we changed the tires and then you put a sprocket on, a train on there. Yeah. You start having some, you start having some gears in there and now you have electric bikes. Right. But it's all a bicycle. Right. What it is still, you still gotta pedal the thing. Well, I mean, some of you don't have to, but you still gotta pedal it to go. Yeah. Yeah. Um, what a difference. One, one will, no one will give you the same workout as another. You just have to, you just have to pedal a lot farther. Right. But you can, yes. Um. Is, is that first one more will be much more dangerous. You should definitely wear your helmet on the uni bike thing is, oh no, that one big wheel on the front one scares. That one scares me. I would, yeah. You hit like a in the road or something, you just flop right over it looks like. Yeah. But um, yeah. Uh, I think the, I think the young entrepreneur today has their own unique set of challenges that some, that I would not want to have faced. And then they also have opportunities that, boy, I wish I had that, yeah. The toolkit they have. Oh my gosh. Uh, the knowledge, you know, we were using encyclopedias when you and I were kids to learn stuff, you know? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I, uh, yeah, for, for for sure. And, um, uh, copying out of them when we got in trouble. That's right. I wanna move us to the loco experience. Yeah, go ahead. That is the craziest experience of your lifetime that you're willing to share with our listening audience. Near deaths or foreign escapades, Mexican prisons, none. That kind of stuff. No. No, I don't, I don't have, I don't. Oh, I have, yeah. I mean, I have, I have my share of dumb things I did as a kid. Um, crazy experience Um, almost killed my wife on a mountain road on our first anniversary, four wheel drive trip. Um, well, I know my wife would have a, a handful in here. I, I guess if I, if I went to, we, uh. Okay. We had this one, one experience. We got, we got invited by Pella windows. Okay. Um, to go out to Pella, Iowa and see how to manufacture these things because you bought enough windows to get a Yeah, yeah. Invite to come and check it out. You gotta, you gotta, you got a, uh, um. Uh, free plane. You've ordered enough windows to get a free plane ticket, uh, with C 37 F and 37 D. Right. And gotta stay in a, uh, uh, home suite hotel. Very nice. So, yeah. Or motel. Uh, so they, they flew us out there and we did this tour and we go to this bar and I don't know if anybody's been to that area or not, or that part of the Midwest. I, I didn't grow up out there. What part of Iowa? Pella. Oh no. Oh, I guess, but is it central Iowa over by the Mississippi? Is it it, I think it's, it's just outside the, it's maybe an hour from the main city there. Okay. What is that? Des Moines. Des Moines? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Um, so a lot of John Deere people around and stuff like that. Yeah. There's cool tractors everywhere and the farms are like, as neat and immaculate as you ever see. And, um, we, the day's over and we go to this bar and there's a bar of beer cans. It looked like you were going to a liquor store. It was just beer cans in, uh, glass coolers. Right. Okay. Like, yep. So if you ordered a beer, they just handed you a Yeah, they just grab outta the glass cooler. What can do you want? It was, it was, it was pretty unique. And we, we were, we were, uh, there and, you know, shooting some pool, what you do, just killing some time because you're just with some, uh, work and just work friends. You and, okay. So me and Brian and, uh, a couple other builders that got invited from the local area. Okay. Yep. They took, they took us and you all the window tour people, and then you like going down to have a burger and a beer afterwards, whatever. So we're, we're shooting pool. And uh, all of a sudden this, this guy walks over and he is, he is agitated. Okay. We have nothing to do with this guy. Right. And maybe you're at his table. No, I, I still don't know what he was agitated about, but he starts, he starts getting in our face. Now, this is not my, uh. You're a lover, not a fighter. Public fight. I've never been in my life. Okay. Like growing up, that was part of childhood, right? Right. You wanna, you wanna play baseball today? Yeah. Let's play baseball. But first let's fight. Okay, let's fight that. That was part of, that was part of being a little kid. Right. As an adult Are whatcha talking about? What is this guy doing? Like it felt that weird, surreal feeling. Right. Right. And he grabs a pull stick and he smacks Brian. Oh shit. Yeah. Up like just smacks him. Okay. And next thing I know, like smacking him, trying to hurt him or, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. And next thing I know we've got, I mean the bar, we got bartenders jumping over. Bar, bar tops and one's, one's a woman. Toughest. Toughest lady I've ever seen. Right. She grabs the wrong guy. I. Okay. She, because mean it meant well, but she didn't know because all of a sudden everybody's chests are puffed out and everybody's, you know, there's a lot of pushing and shoving going on of like, what are you doing? Yeah. Yeah. And this is the most clean cut group of people together. Right, right. Like Pella, Iowa is just clean cut, let alone their guests. And, um, so this, it go, it gets, this guy was a sole provocateur. He didn't have buddies or anything. Yeah. Just a local guy. Just a local guy. One, one dude. Yeah, just one dude. Um, and no, and then that turned into all of a sudden there's two guys trying to like, help him get him out of the place, but he's not letting go type of a thing. And there's, so there's this, like, what started out with, I thought was gonna be a major barroom brawl turned into just a lot of pushing and shoving and shirt grabbing. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, and then the bartender jumps over and starts, another bartender jumps over and he's, he's run around and he yells. You better let go. They're touring the plant. Okay. And this guy, like instantly let's go. He's like, oh, that, that window company has so much control that that's all they had to say at the bar to get this thing to go away. Like he knew like, oh shoot, that's probably somebody's brother who, the sheriff is probably the brother of the guy who who runs, right? These guys by Windows who runs the blinds division of something and, uh, little push and shove. And they, they escorted him outside and they had a big talk and the police came and they, they just said, you know, the bartender's like, no, it's all good. It was just some, we had some guests here and don't worry about it. And all, all kind of just went and Brian's like, what, what, what on my shoulder? Yeah. He's, he's rubbing the side of his face going, what the heck? How did I get that? And Brian is like the least confrontational person for that to have like happened to, like, he's never looking for. Yeah, definitely a physical fight, let alone just, I want to talk smack back and forth with somebody. Right, right. Crazy situation. Never, even, never learned from the police. Like what this guy had up his praw or anything like that? No, they, they just shut it down. They just, yeah. Just like, shut it down. And that guy was home. This guy's just toward Pella. Yeah. And he's like, oh, holy shit. Okay. Well, yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm glad we got that, uh, that little window order so we can stay outta jail. But, uh, no, it, it was, and, and it was. You're drinking canned beer, playing pool. So it's not like anybody was overly Right. Frothed up either. Right. And we're all from Fort Collins, right? So you're at low elevation, so you're strong anyway. Low, low. And we know what good beer is, right? We're drinking 7% beer in home, in 5% in, in Iowa. And we just drink, you know, everybody enjoys some hams or whatever it was at the time, but yeah. Yeah. Uh, yeah. So, but nobody was lit up. You did not provoke that fight as I don't, I don't think I got as reported to the social media for sure. Or the high craft builders star s brawl in tele I. Right, right. So yeah, that's a, I mean, I can, I can tell you all kinds of stories about being in client's homes, but we, we will leave that alone. Um, we, we, we, we've experienced a lot. We experienced a lot special custom requests about mirrors or bedroom, uh, designs. Yeah. Yeah. We did a, uh, we, we were asked, um, while we were walking it with a couple. That they wanted the shower to be built for three. Uh, and that was, that was a unique request. Yeah. You know, and they said, Hey, and we want, I can't imagine why. We gotta make sure that we can, how, how does this work for three and that? And then we realized, oh, there, there. That's why the bathtub's in the bedroom. There's an add one, there's a plus one in this relationship. There's a plus one. Yeah. Yeah. And we just roll. We just roll with it. You know, we always just, yeah. Yeah, if that's what they want, no problem. No, no problem at all. You know, we've done kitchens where there's no cabinets. It's all dishwashers so that nobody ever has to, oh gosh, unload a dishwasher. You know, just they have the little signage so that they always knew which ones were dirty, which one were clean. They'd move that around. That's crazy. That was a, uh, an engineer who is really into, um. Uh, well, why taking him out of the dishwasher and putting him in the cupboard and then Yeah. He was really into the lean process Yeah. Of efficiency. That's really, and he's like, no, we don't, I, I don't, I hate cabinets, uh, for anything that's gonna get dirty. So they had the pots and pans, dishwasher. I mean, and just so you know, this may decrease your resale value. Just a stack of dish. It looked like we were going into Sears when you were a kid. Just a, just a whole line of dishwashers. But, uh, yeah. Yeah. So yeah, we, we, we get some special requests, get some weird stuff. Well, I've sure enjoyed the conversation. Thank you. Appreciate you spending the time, and I appreciate you having us here and, uh, what you're doing in the community for, uh, trying to build up young entrepreneurs as well as take care of the ones that have been doing it for a while. And, and, uh, thank you spread, spread the love and the knowledge and the, uh, uh, abilities that you can do it within them. Yeah. That you can do it. Yeah. And, uh, it's, uh, it's, it's really cool. And this, I, I know that this a labor of love for you, so Pleasure. Appreciate that. Appreciate you. Inviting us. I gotcha. Next time just you can, I've done my turn. You'll bring somebody else from high craft and have them sit down. All right. And we'd love to have you over to the over the office. Love to see it. Thank you. All right. Cheers for now.