The LoCo Experience
The LoCo Experience is a long-form conversational podcast that dives deep into the journeys of business leaders, entrepreneurs, and changemakers in Northern Colorado. Hosted by Curt Bear, Founder of LoCo Think Tank, the show brings real, raw, and unfiltered conversations—where guests share their successes, struggles, and lessons learned along the way.
LoCo Think Tank is Colorado’s premier business peer advisory organization, founded in Fort Collins to help business owners gain perspective, accountability, and encouragement to grow both personally and professionally. LoCo chapters bring together business owners at all stages of the journey into professionally facilitated peer advisory chapters, led by experienced business veterans. These groups provide a trusted space to share challenges, seek advice, learn togethter, and support each other’s success.
The LoCo Experience Podcast extends this mission beyond the chapter meetings— bringing the wisdom, insights, and stories of local business leaders to a wider audience.
Our triad mission with this podcast is simple:
Inspire through real stories of resilience and success.
Educate by sharing valuable business insights.
Entertain with engaging, unfiltered conversations.
If you love “How I Built This” and the free-flowing style of Joe Rogan - but with a Northern Colorado focus - you’ll enjoy The LoCo Experience! Our closing segment, "The LoCo Experience," asks guests to share their craziest stories — and we get some doozies!
It’s a passion project with purpose, and we invite you to listen, follow, and share, and maybe consider sponsoring. Know someone with a great story? Nominate your favorite business leader for an episode!
The LoCo Experience
EXPERIENCE 228 | Start-Up Practice to Over 100 Employees in 4 years! - Julien Faure, Founder and Owner of Momentum Counseling and Consulting
In this episode of the LoCo Experience Podcast, I spoke with Julian Faure, the Founder and Owner of Momentum Counseling and Consulting. Julien is a member of Loco Think Tank's Next Level III chapter and has grown his company significantly, from a start-up solo practice in 2021 to over 100 employees in 13 offices in a few short years.
One of the topics we discussed was the challenge of constantly hiring and training and the high rate of burnout in the mental health industry. Julien shared the significance of building a supervisory internship model at Momentum to train new therapists. He emphasized the role of community in mental health and how the decline in organized religion and service clubs may be impacting people's psychological well-being - isolation is our enemy.
Julian's life and business journey is inspiring; he moved from France to Florida for college, overcame language barriers during his first few years, and attended law school and practiced law for several years before finding his calling in counseling. We reflected on the factors leading to the immense growth of Momentum Counseling and the risks and rewards of growing an enterprise vs. operating a practice. Finally, Julian shared his perspective on emerging trends in mental health, including the acceptance and benefits of telehealth and the potential benefits of chemically assisted trauma therapy. His is an inspiring and still early-stage journey, with lots of great insights into mental health and well-being, so please enjoy - as I did - my conversation with Julien Faure.
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Music By: A Brother's Fountain
in this episode of the Loco Experience Podcast, I spoke with Julian Farr, the founder and owner of Momentum Counseling and Consulting Julian as a member of LO Code Think Tank's Next Level three chapter, and has grown this company significantly from startup solo practice in 2021 to over 100 employees at 13 offices in a few short years. One of the topics we discussed was the challenge of constantly hiring and training and the high rate of burnout in the mental health industry. Julian shared the significance of building a supervisory internship model at Momentum to train new therapists, and he emphasized the role of community in mental health and how the decline in organized religion and service clubs may be impacting people's psychological wellbeing. Isolation is our enemy. Julian's life and business journey is inspiring. He moved from France to Florida for college, overcame language barriers during his first few years and attended law school and practiced law for several years before finding his calling and counseling. We reflected on the factors leading to the immense growth of momentum counseling and the risks and rewards of growing in enterprise versus operating a practice. Finally, Julian shared his perspective on emerging trends in mental health, including the acceptance and benefits of telehealth and the potential benefits of chemically assisted trauma therapy. He's an inspiring and still early stage journey with lots of great insights into mental health and wellbeing. So please enjoy as I did my conversation with Julian Farr. Welcome back to the Loco Experience Podcast. I'm here today with Julian Farr, far Yes. Founder and owner of Momentum Counseling and Consulting. And please say it with like the proper French Ro Farr. Close enough. Well, welcome Julian. Thanks for being here today. Thank you for having me. Um, so you are a member of one of our Loko think Tank, uh, next level chapters? Yes. And, uh, for six months or so? Yeah, I think October, November. Okay. Yeah. Maybe even, yeah, a little longer than that Now. A little longer. And, uh, and in part because you were, you know, when I, when you found us, you had kind of a tiger by the tail. You'd already grown to like. 70 employees in less than three years. Yeah. Yeah. I was right about right after the three anniversary. Mm. And and what's your, what's your count now? About a hundred. Okay. A little over a hundred. A little over a hundred. Yeah. How do you find enough people to keep growing at that pace and how do you find enough customers, um, to need all those people? Um. I, I think it's nonstop. Yeah. We are constantly hiring. Um, I think that there's a shortage in mental health right now. Hmm. Um, not enough therapists. A lot of therapists have left the industry in Colorado for other pastors, like even being a coach instead, because there's a big regulatory mm-hmm. Oversight kind of challenge is, what I understand is that you find that true. That part. I don't know. Okay. But I know that there's a higher rate of burnout. Mm. I've read that somewhere. Sure. Kind of like social workers or something. They take on the problems of the world and then they, they're only in the field for five or seven years, and so you're constantly having to train new people. Mm. Yeah. I don't remember exactly what the. The average length of time that someone stood in a, in, in a counselor role, but I thought it was surprisingly low. Yeah. Interesting. Um, so you're always hiring. Yeah, always training. Yeah. And I remember that your model is in part kind of a, a supervisory kind of internship. Oh, a hundred percent focus. Yeah. Wanna talk to me about that? Did you start there or was that like how, how you've been able to keep growing? I. Did not start there, but I started bringing on interns very quickly. Mm-hmm. Um, some interns reached out to me and I didn't know that, um, interns could work in private practices. Um, but yeah, after, after learning a little bit more about it, um. I decided that momentum was gonna become, um, a training institute. Training center. Okay. Um, feels good to train the new generation and, um, interns really do as good of a job as more. Season therapy is, is that right? Yeah, because they're not all burnt out and stuff. I don't know about that. But because they, they receive, um, a lot of supervision coming from their school, a lot coming from us. Um, we, I. Really our de um, one of our big values is that, that continuing education, um, for all of our therapies, not just the interns education, but everybody keeps getting, getting smarter all the time. Exactly. Well, we provide certifications. We our supervisors or. Very dedicated to, to the growth of their, their supervisees. They, they are supervisors only. Mm-hmm. Um, so that's, oh, so they don't see clients at all? Mm-hmm. Oh, I see. Not anymore. So we've switched completely the way we approach, um, the, the supervision of our newer, um, newer therapist. Um. And that, that became one of my values early on. That's how I'm modified or that's the path I went down as, um, I. As I was building momentum. Yeah. It came to both building momentum and building momentum. Exactly. What, uh, has all this growth been organic? Like you Yes. Leased an office and hired some people. Mm-hmm. And leased another office and hired some people. Yep. Exactly. Yeah. I started by myself. Okay. No intention. Um, to, to go out, on, to, to create a private practice. Okay. Um, that was in September, 2021. Okay. And yeah, I am. I left my W2 job. Went out on my own. Uh, it was very And like rented an office about this size or something like that? Exactly, yeah. Down, down the street at the Drake office space, uh, the Drake office park, um, I was, no, it was actually a two. Um, two office suite. Okay. With one of my friends. And really, I was just petrified about not having enough clients to pay the rent. Mm-hmm. Was your friend also a counselor? Yes. So you were both in the same industry, but not partnered together or anything? Just No, no, no. Share the space. Yeah, share. Share the cost. Right. Share the cost. And how much was the rent? I think it might have been.$1,300. Okay.$1,400 and we're splitting it. Yeah. Yeah. And how much did you charge for a session in the beginning? I always took insurance. Oh, okay. So whatever the insurance pays kind of. Exactly. Okay, I gotcha. Exactly. Um, so which is about how much? A hundred ish on average or something more 150? It depends on plans. Sure. Um. I'm just thinking how many, how many clients do you have to see in a month to pay the rent? Like maybe 20 or something ish? Oh, well, I, I mean, Julian doesn't get paid still, but the rent gets paid. Yeah. Um, well, I hired my first employee within the first month. Oh. So even within the first month of rent, I already had someone that was also generating Oh, wow. Income. And was that just because you saw your schedule like completely booked up? Mm-hmm. And how did those clients find you? Some of my clients, um, were long time clients. Oh, followed you from your previous practice or whatever? Me and then others just found me and yeah, I got very, very full, very, very quickly. Yeah. And so. Actually momentum did not exist when I Oh, you were just when Ion Julian counseling. Exactly. That was it. That was exactly it. I had to find the name of momentum within five days in between the time I hired someone. Oh, right. And the time when I had to create Interesting. A real, a real company. So I like the name. Yeah, I have in a short amount of time. I think I did, I did a fine job. Well, it's long. I mean, that's what my big criticism, momentum counseling and consulting. It doesn't, uh, is your email is, is it? Is it Julian At Momentum Counseling and Consulting? Momentum? CAC. Oh, that's great. Yeah. Yeah. We abbreviated Well, hey, um. I was not the first one to, to come up with momentum counseling, let's just say that. Yes. So I did the best I could with, with the amount of time that I had. Well, and it's a, it is proven to be a great name for you based on, on that growth. So that, that name momentum though, it was, you know, there only early on just for mm-hmm. Purpose of hiring that first employee. You've basically, you know what, four-ish years? A hundred-ish employees. Mm-hmm. So 25 people a year. That's two people a month. Oh, yeah. Think about it this way. On the, yeah, yeah. Well, it's 48 months. Oh, sorry. Yeah. So that's, yeah. 48 total months ish. Yeah. So you've been hiring two people a month, uh, virtually every month since you started business's. Yeah. Oh, wow. I didn't see it this way. See, that's why you need to work in your, uh, figure out who else is gonna start hiring people, especially. Oh, yes. Keep growing this fast. Yeah. That was one of our conversation this morning in our next level, next level meeting about, um. Making, um, hiring more efficient. Yeah. And passing the torch to my upper management. I mean, I just hired Ben here at Loco, who you met this morning, but I mean, I had. 15 first interviews and Oh yeah. Four or five second interviews along that path, you know, and a whole bunch of discovery checking recommendation. Like it's a push, like it sucks. That can get, and that's, I do it once every few years. I hire one or two people, you know, so it's, it's just training me, just thinking about it. Yeah, that can get very, very time consuming. So now it's, it's more of an office effort. Yeah. In between screenings, um, you're kind of the final decider, but you still meet'em all ultimately before you put'em on the team. I mean, until, um, until you and Pete told me, told me that eventually, eventually, yeah. I need to do otherwise. Yeah. But it's just a very quick final meeting. The, it's impressive. The team does heavy lifting. Well, you might decide to keep that. Honestly. Yeah, because when, when. When you got somebody on your payroll, you know, and, and you're relying upon them to create a good impression for your clients and stuff. Yeah, it's, it's probably worth your 15 minutes. So I didn't push back too hard against on, on Pete in that conversation. Okay. But I was like, I don't know. I think if he's down to a 15 minute Yeah. Uh, smell test, I think that might be okay. Alright, Pete, you listen to that. I think we're gonna having a fight over who is doing the final interview. Now, if you're, if you're hiring for, I don't know if you're got an office in Colorado Springs or Pueblo or something, but if you're hiring down there is, you're not meeting these people in person. It's all Zoom. All zoom, yes. Gotcha. Yeah. Even locally. More zoom than not probably. Oh yeah, only. Only Zoom. And then how about your staff? Are they meeting clients? Mostly, not too much. Zoom, some zoom. In person at the offices. What's the mix of, of how, how you deliver the goods in that? Yeah. Therapist space. Um, so first, um, doing therapy online before COVID was, um, I. Not taboo, but very fringe. Right, right. Very, very rarely. Yeah. Um, therapies were providing therapy over, um, over teleconference, telehealth, and now it has beco, it has done a hundred percent shift. It's, um, completely part of, of the expectations of clients. It's just valid as a in person. Oh yeah. I think from an industry's perspective, um, I think for efficacy, yes. Yeah. It's just as, um, just as effective and. It became completely normal for clients, right? Yeah. We have clients that just wanna do telehealth. Um, they have children or their schedule is right, is weird. Um, so that's first thing, which I was surprised. Yeah. And by that, and then second, yeah. We, we, we have therapies who only do telehealth. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing else. We, we have people out of state. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Okay. And, um, I really doubt any of my therapists have an only in-person caseload. Oh, okay. So maybe 50 50 low over, that's overall mix kind of thing. Yeah. And do some patients like come in. In person some and then, Hey, next month I'm gonna be doing this. I want to do a Zoom instead. Oh yeah. And when you say telehealth, is it a zoom type thing? Yeah. It's not just a phone call, right? No, no, no. It feels important to like look into my eyes at least and stuff if you're gonna lie to me or whatever. Exactly. Um, um, yeah, so we we're very flexible if. I don't know someone, yeah, comms always in person, but they are sick, but Right. But they want to keep their appointment, but they still wanna keep their appointment. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, that's not, that's not an issue. And how do those comms happen? Is that, is that, I guess, an administrative function or kind of a customer service function? They'll just call like a front desky person that doesn't. Actually manage clients and Yeah, we have, or a lot of it's online kind of scheduling stuff or No, no. Um, they, they contact our schedulers. I see. And they take care of everything up to the moment when they're, yeah. They're rapist. Like, uh, if you're gonna come, go and see the dentist or something, there's a person who's just kind of in charge of, okay. You know? Exactly. And a month from now we're gonna come back. Yeah. And whatever kind of thing. And four years ago that was, and no toothbrush, no, no toothpaste or nothing like that. Do you get any, uh. Do you guys have like, swaggy, swaggy, prizes, like candy? So your teeth are out faster or anything? No. Maybe, which is a good idea. You give away cell phones or something, so people's No, there's, everybody's already got one of those. Yeah. And, and four years ago, that was me doing everything right. Picking up the phone and getting, getting people set up. So we, looking back, we're a long way from, from where we started. Right? I can't believe you took insurance right from the start as a one man band that seems, mm. Like, well,'cause even now, right? Don't you get paid like 60 days after you see somebody or something? A lot of times, if I do, right? I mean, um, nothing against insurance, right? Unless you, it's your bread and butter. Don't, don't dig me for, for what I'm gonna say, but for sometimes if they deny claims for. You need some administrative, missing a comment or something like that. Okay. Then we're talking about six months. We, um, gotta resubmit this or that kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, the DLA, um, we gotta be really solid on cash flow. Well, that's crazy. You had to have some savings in the bank when you start'cause you're not gonna get your first. Paycheck from that first client? Yeah. Until two months after you see'em. Yeah. Sometimes a little faster and then sometimes, yeah. Interesting. I don't know. I remember, yeah, mid 2024. Late 2024. I could see I still had claims from 2023. Oh really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. So, um, that's. That's what can get really dicey when, when taking insurances. Right. Because Right. That can be a really long time in between the time when you provide services. Right. And then therefore pay your therapist well. And you're out there leasing new offices, putting deposits down on new offices, hiring therapists to staff'em before you really have customers in that region yet. Yeah, exactly. Interesting. Yeah, it's definitely an interesting cash flow management type of business. Mm-hmm. What, what got you into counseling? What got me into and how, when did you start? Yeah. So I started back in 2009. So what got me into counseling? I was an attorney. Okay. Um, back in Miami and yeah, go to Miami. Did you like Miami? I, it was too big for me. Yeah. I'm a, I'm a smaller town kind of guy. Sure. And so, I mean, as you can, as you can imagine, working as attorney is requires, um, certain kind of personality, which I think I. Was not matching my personality. Okay. And yeah, the kind of law that I was doing was, um, so you were failing as an attorney, is that what you're saying? Yeah. Yeah, A little bit. Yeah. Sorry. That's rude. I wasn't as successful, uh, as I got later. Um, but then 2008 I happened and. You know what, which sure. You went through, you went through the, the banking crisis. The banking crisis. Yeah. Our bank went from a staff of 12 to a staff of six. Oh really? Yeah. Yeah. The bank I worked at. Wow. I was one of the survivors. But you know, not everybody was so lucky. So imagine the same thing in most law firms. Is that right? In a lot of law firms. Yeah. In um, especially. Oh, so you didn't really choose counseling. Uh, law UN chose you. You were like, yeah, kind of. Oh, what should I do now? Yeah. Okay. Well, I could have, I think I wasn't that bad. I'm sure. I think I could have come back, I'm sure. But you were kind of over it anyway. I wasn't the best, but I'm just teasing. I don't think people were chasing me outta Miami. Right. Okay. Fair. Um, but you were like, let's flip a new page. So it was, it was really at that point where I was coming at a fork in the road of. Do I try something that I think I would be good at, or do I keep looking for a job for a long time and that I probably wouldn't like so. I, I really, I just tried it out. Hmm. Well, um, well, though, you have to like get a degree or something first though. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So, because you can't just try it out, you put up your psychiatry 5 cents flag. I, I tried out the school. Okay. I tried out the master's degree. Gotcha, gotcha. I made sure to check the, the refund. I. On the refund policy and had one free week, basically. Okay. Um, and I knew within the first day I was 80% sure this is what I want to do. Um, by the end of the week I knew that that was how cool that was it. So, um, starting in 2009, so my first clients in 2010, um. At the school, so I was an intern back then. Okay. And became Did you have good supervision? Excellent. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Our, our teachers were really great. I was a very, very, very good experience and went full time 2011, and I practiced full-time until 20. Well, 2021. Yeah. Uh, in, in Florida some of that time or did you move here or what was your circumstance getting to Colorado? Um, I came to Colorado in 2016. Okay. Late 2016? Yeah. Early 20 s. And how did that come to pass? Like, I came here for a job. Oh, okay. Okay. Do, do companies recruit for a long ways to get. Therapist jobs or were you looking for I was to get to the mountains or get out of Florida or whatever. Yeah, I mean, like I came just like. Probably for the same reason that most people come to Colorado. Right. Well, I just was curious how the, like, how it all worked out. But you got a job first that Yeah. You, you know, you didn't have to Exactly. Come here and look for a job. You did it smart this time. No, not that risk. Not that much of a risk taker. Yeah. Yeah. So then you were just, um, kind of working in the industry mm-hmm. Doing your thing, working for different, other multiple companies and, and then like, why did you get off, go off on your own? It felt like it was a natural progression at this point. I had a lot of friends that had gone on their own, so it felt like, yeah, let's why not? Why not? Yeah. Yeah, why not? Um, it's kinda like, in a way, it's like the financial services industry. I. Um, like to get your start, you have to work for Edward Jones or Oh yeah. Something like that. And they'll train you up and they'll pay you a little salary to try to get you in, but they'll also take a big chunk of your commissions Yeah. On all your clients for a long time and forever. And so if you get good enough at it, you should just go independent. Yeah. Because you get to keep so much of a larger share of your, of the pie. Sure. Same thing with this, I imagine like at, at least at, at first when you don't have overhead and employees and stuff. Yeah, I mean it's, um, we, we take a share, but we also take a lot of risks for sure. And you do a bunch of stuff like all the payroll, all the mechanics. All the insurance billing. All the insurance billing. Yeah. Yeah. Well, for most normal people, like I might be a really good therapist if I got some education and training. But I would tap, oh, when it came to the insurance billing stuff, I'd be like, I, I don't ever want play. Like I, I can't, yeah. I just can't even deal with this level of bureaucracy stuff. But your law training helped you? Yeah. I mean, I'm also finding a very good biller. Mm-hmm. A very trustworthy biller, very dedicated, um, really played a big role. Okay. In, in Kickstarting momentum, because I remember calling Medicaid. Yeah. Um. Uh, asking about a question, talk to three people, three different answers. Yeah. Uh, I need to spend an hour on the phone and get nowhere. Yeah. I told myself I need, I need to find someone. Yeah. I can't, can't keep doing that. That seems to be like, you've done almost everything in your firm, but you willingly delegate when you find out that it would be better if somebody else did that thing. Yeah. Even just in the. Nine months we've known each other. You know, you're kind of, kind of adding this and then, well, like the other day when I asked, have you considered like if you should have like a compliance officer Oh yes. Something. And you were like, yep. Just, we just talked about that. About we go, you know. Exactly. And uh, so you're always kind of, I. Seeing those gaps in what your skillset can cover effectively and then hire hiring for it or outsourcing for it. Yeah. Yeah. Trying to, again, no, no formal background in, in running a business. So rolling with the punches, huh? Yeah. Does law provide some training in business as part of it? Like is there a financial analysis or? Uh, accounting classes required or things like that? Or not even really? Not even really. Huh, interesting. Yeah. A very minimal amount of, of financial knowledge. So you're learning as you go about Yeah. Balance sheet management, cash flow management. Yeah, exactly. Human resources, hiring. How many people had you. Had you managed people before? No. Starting momentum? Never. Never, never ever, never, ever. Not even at the McDonald's or whatever in high school. No. That is wild. Yeah. Um, and, uh, so I wanna go to the subject at hand a little bit. Um, okay. Like the, the basics of. I guess talk therapy is what you guys would say that you do, right? Yeah. You don't, you don't use any of the fancy zappy machines or No. Any of those kind of, you know, new agey Chinese medicine techniques or nothing? No, I just thought just traditional. Yeah. So talk to me about like what, what sets apart the really good therapists and maybe even the really good clients, like how do you, how do you become a really good client in that kind of circumstance? Like what are the, oh wow. What are the dynamics to achieve change and success?'cause I'm sure you have. If you're like anybody, you have winners and losers. Like some people respond really well to therapy and some people are hard nuts to crack. Who I don't think that there's such a thing as a hard nut, as a bad client. Okay. Um, I don't think that there is such a thing as a resistant client. Um, that was a. Term that was used for, for a long time. Yeah. But we're moving away from, from that because we're realizing it falls back on on the therapist. Huh? Is that right? Yeah. Is, is the client resistant? Um. Alright. Resistant. So if, if I'm a resistant client, we'll say, yeah. Well then what would a therapist do to overcome that? I think feels my fault. The client, the, the therapist might be going too fast. Mm-hmm. And trying to touch upon some, some areas that the client is not ready. Mm-hmm. Okay. It's not because the, I'll use resistant for the lack of better term. It's not because the client is resistant. Now, that means that they don't want to. Um, they're resisting to talking about it, and they would be resistant forever. Uh, the, the cl the therapies might not have built enough rapport. Yeah. Um, the therapies might, yeah. I've gone, I've gone too fast, and the client is not ready to talk about Yeah. That, that trauma, for example. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. And so is that what it's mostly about? Ultimately is like. Getting the permission of the client to, to unearth the trauma. Yeah. And, and move past it eventually, or approach it kind of, um, more rationally. I don't think that the permission, I don't think the permission is verbalized. No, no, no. Um, no. I, yeah. But, but getting to that point almost of, of uncovering whatever it is that, yeah, that person's stumbling. I, I guess this is probably more of, especially on a one-on-one counseling, relationship counseling is probably a whole different dynamic. Yeah. Um. I would say the, the readiness of the client, um, plays, plays a big role, um, and sometimes maybe they're resistant, what the therapist sees as resistance. The client does not even see it as sure as resistant, but may not have had time to gain the inside and, and the therapies is. Like, what? Can't you see that? Right. It's like the, you have a nail in your head. Yeah. You see that, uh, little video. Yeah. Um, so I guess talk to me about like, is there things that the therapist can do then to loosen the resistance, if you will? Or, or, or help. Gain that perspective? Or is it just really about we just build rapport and talk until the trust is kind of there? Yeah. And yeah, rapport is not just talking about, you know, favorite football team or Right. Anything like that. And you do that for two sessions and then after you, right. Rapport is always, always present, but I think if the rapport. Has not been built. You can have the best interventions in the world. This is just gonna fall flat. Fair. If the client does not trust you, if the client doesn't believe they, you won't be judging them. Yeah. You'll accept them. Yeah. Yeah. You're, you're just wasting your time. I mean, the client may be Yeah. Um, uncovering things that they were not even aware of, or trauma that they have not. Talked about to, to anyone else. So, um, yeah. If, if the client doesn't see that you care about them, you're, you're wasting your time. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's really to some extent about evidence in that care through, I suppose good listening. Yeah. Reflective questioning. Exactly. Not pushing too far into the. Soft spot yet. Yeah, that's exactly what you're doing now, right here. Yeah. I could be, I could, I could do your job. Yeah, you should. You should get a shop perhaps. Maybe. Yeah. Um, get into your internship program. How much schooling do I have to go? I've got an economics degree so far. You still need to, to get into a master's degree, either professional counseling or married and family therapy. I see. Yeah. Social work or, so they probably, they might not take me. We'll see. Give it a try. They people. Yeah. Yeah. I got a lot of things on my plate already. Um, what you do, what was your, like, it sounded like you found pretty decent success, uh, early on in, in the therapist more so than, than the law career, and then mm-hmm. You know, especially when you went off on your own and you're like. Full right away. Like what was, what was it that was really drawing people to you? Uh, I know one thing I was gonna ask is like, you're a dude and Yeah, like eight out of 10 or nine out of 10 therapists are probably ladies these days in our region. Correct. Was that a benefit? Like did you get, or do you see that at all, I guess in the industry? Do like men prefer to talk to a man sometimes? No. In particular or. Who? Yeah. Talk to me about that dynamic. What I see, and again, I'm not involved into the day-to-day Sure. Scheduling, but you've been there. Yeah. Um, when I hear about preference, I hear people wanting to, to work with a female therapist. Okay. I actually, you rarely hear it the other way around. Rarely. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so. You were not a female therapist, but you still filled up right away. Did you have a, what would you say is your special sauce? Why were your clients willing to transition with you out of your former employer and, and follow you to your new practice and, and refer their friends, presumably to some extent? Yeah. I got highly specialized in eating disorders. Oh, okay. Um, which is a niche. Okay. Which I think also a lot of therapists tend to shy away. And were you, did you experience your own problems in that space or something? No, I got involved, yeah, for about three, three and a half years before opening momentum. Okay. I worked in an eating disorder only. Oh, clinic. Okay. Yeah. So that became kind of your. Not your target market necessarily, but your special niche of expertise. Yeah, exactly. Interesting. Exactly. Like I, I remember like when I was in high school, early college was when kind of bulimia and anorexia was really kind of all over the, the news and stuff. Is that still a significant challenge or is it other. More specialized disorders that are, uh, in the world today. I know eating disorders, like you said, um, college, especially freshman year of college mm-hmm. Is one of two. I mean, it's puberty and college. Those two times. Yeah, those two times when there's the highest occurrence of eating disorders. Okay. Although now we're seeing more occurrence in. People in their forties. Mm-hmm. That doesn't surprise me. Yeah. Uh, always a time of transition kind of, and whatever, and Yeah. Yeah. And especially in Colorado. Um, and when you say people, you really mostly mean women or is it also men? I think with, with men. Um. Men are very much underdiagnosed Okay. With eating disorders. Okay. Um, before, um, research thought that the ratio was one to 10. Okay. Then down to one to four, now one to two. Oh, wow. Yeah. So a lot more Oh, interesting. Men. Having issues with food than was initially Yeah. Thought. And is it, but is it different than the anorexia and bulimia that we had back in those days or is that the main, the power pair still? Are there other types of eating disorders That I'm not for men. For men or for women? For, for men. For anybody. Yeah. Um, because anorexia is, you just don't eat right. And bulimia is you like puke it back out after you eat. Yeah. A binge. Binge and, and per cycles. Yeah. Yeah. Um, for men, um, it's not an official diagnosis, but big auryxia. I think it's also called reverse anorexia, so Oh, being obsessed. Oh, with, with bulking up. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Like even if you're four oh pounds, you're like, I can use even bigger. Yeah. I mean that, that obsession with Or big muscles. Big muscles, yeah. Oh, got you more. Yeah. Um, leaf cake. Yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking about it. I was gonna get some steroids and. I had it hard for a couple years just before I get too old, you know? Yeah. I think you should pass on, you haven't seen good success. Yeah. Um, that's so interesting. Yeah. Okay. So at any age, even probably for men. Mm-hmm. Um, and I've definitely probably seen those guys at the gym or whatever that are really focused on, you know, the next kind of start to disappear. You're like, dude, you're good. Like you Yeah. Could kind of back it back a little bit and, and again, um. In my experience, it would be hard for me to, to give you an idea of the typical age for male or typical presentation, because I think in three years I was thinking about it. I think I might have seen. Four or five guys. Okay. Yeah. In three years. Yeah. So not, still not a real, yeah. The disparity, even if it's diagnosed, they're not coming into you or most people aren't coming on the phone anywhere, guys, or not. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Um, talk to me about like. Mental health changes, like since the time of COVID? During the time of COVID. Mm. Um, I was thinking September of 21, you know, was, yeah. We were kind of finally getting back to normal-ish. Yeah. But still barely in some ways. Um, and then. Um, like contrast that to like the, the Trump reelection, or not reelection, but I have to think both of those were like traumatic events for a lot of young people, uh, in particular. Yeah. Yeah. Or maybe, I mean, COVID more for older people, even maybe a lot of fear, you know, and such, so maybe that was more of a diverse thing. I don't know. Yeah. I, I just thinking about these big, momentous Yeah. Things that have happened these last few years with COVID, I, I was not seeing, uh, children. Oh, at the time. Okay. But from what my child therapy staff told me that it had a dramatic effect, especially in, um, development. Okay. In, in child development. So, uh, not, um, I. The expectation of development or not matching the age. Yeah. Where they, they should the, the eight year olds are acting more like six year olds. Yeah. Whatever. Yeah. Um, not saying all, but that's what I heard my child therapist telling me that there's a big, um, it, it's very common Hmm. To, to encounter that. So definitely children, I think COVID might have, um, normalized mental health. Mm. Yeah. Um, made it more normal to be able to go and seek help. Yeah. Kind. Exactly. Yeah. Just like using, using a zoom for a Yes. For a, for a meeting or a therapy session is mm-hmm. Much more normalized. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I think that's probably fair. Yeah. I remember the first time I saw a therapist was, you know, years ago marriage counseling first really. But, um, it was. What, what did I say? You know, I'm, I'm, I'm a dude too, right? And, and I'm from North Dakota where people don't really go to counselors and therapists and stuff like that. Um, so it was a little bit, I guess, progressive of me at that time, you know, 15 years ago or whatever it was, 12 years ago. Um, and so, uh, but yeah, now, now it's definitely a, a whole different thing. Nobody. Think twice if you said, oh, I gotta leave early'cause I gotta go see my therapist, you know? Oh yeah. Yeah. The, uh, the, I think stigma is still there. I don't think, yeah. A little bit. Um, we reached just like, if someone was gonna say, oh, I gotta go see my doctor. I think there's still maybe a little bit of stigma there. Right. Yeah. Fair. But it has dramatically decreased, right, right. Over the past 20 years. Well, and humans are wired that way kinda, right? Like. Like when we had tribes of like 50 or a hundred people and stuff like that. You know, if somebody was sick, it's like, well, let's stay away from that person, kind of thing, you know? Oh, yeah. And I think not just in the, not just even in the physical health space, but probably a little bit even in the mental health space, like humans are naturally inclined to'cause, like depressed people are Debbie Downers. And they'll like, it radiates a little bit, kind of, and it's like, it, it is a communicable disease of sorts. Uh, well in, in a way. And it can be addressed and it can be cured. Right. Yeah. Or at least, you know, worked on. Yeah. I don't think I a hundred percent agree with, with what, what you're saying. Um, it's more metaphor. Yeah. You know, but, uh, but when I think about, you know, tribes of humans with some little wolf dogs running around and stuff like that, they're like, woo. She mad and depressed mean, and stay away. Yeah. Well, I think, I think the, the flip side of it, um, that's why I think isolation is so difficult on people. Mm-hmm. Because it goes back to back then when, when you're. When you're pushed away from the tribe. I mean, that was right. That was certain death, huh? Right, right. Yeah. That was one of the interesting, you know, that the tribalism that was, was during that season and the tribalism that exists now, frankly. Mm-hmm. You know, we're in, you know, uh, current events wise, we're in the truce or the ceasefire between Iran and Ira. Israel was just, uh, not even a week ago now, and everybody's like, uh, what's going on here? And. You know, we've had these no kings rallies and there's just a lot of, uh, those tribes are, are, have become so much more tribal and defined, I guess in some ways since I was a little kid. Oh, yeah, if you will, kind of the red team and the blue team or whatever. Yeah. I didn't grow up here, so. Oh yeah, that's for sure. Um, but how was it back? I don't, don't want to give away your age, but Yeah. Well, I'm from, well I'm, I'm 50, you know, it's no secret, but I'm from rural North Dakota, so it was very conservative region anyway. Oh yeah. Um, but North Dakota actually has like, the, the Bank of North Dakota is a little bit like a mini federal reserve. Oh, really? And, and North Dakota has a. A strong northern European kind of socialist, uh, culture ish. Um, but not, not in such a structured way.'cause the Northern Europeans, you know, in those cold climates in which North Dakota is also Yeah. There's gonna be times when you just gotta rely on each other and community and, you know, if, if. John breaks his leg in a tractor accident. Well then his neighbors, uh, are putting his crops in for him that year and, and bringing some money over to his wife so she can keep buying groceries in the meantime or whatever. Mm. And so there's this kind of non, so it's, it's almost like a. Nonpolitical region and you kind of do what needs to be done or whatever. And, and so I grew up in that environment and so there was, you know, there was a few people that, like, I remember dad saying, I think his dad voted for Jimmy Carter, probably about one of my classmates. And it was like, you know, it was pretty rare, uh, versus Ronald Reagan who, you know, cleaned house back in the day. Um, and when I, even when I first moved to Fort Collins, it was a very. Purple community and Oh yeah. Kind of liberty leaning. And it was even, you know, years and years before even marijuana legalization and stuff, uh, which were fairly progressive and liberty oriented kind of things, I suppose. Um, but now being I. A conservative leaning, libertarian type is a little bit, you know, I'm in the, the, the 35% campus almost. There's a lot of, you know, I think Biden, or not Biden, Kamala one, Larimer County, like 65, 35. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. So it's a very, you know, for somebody and I, I've been mostly an independent voter all my life. Yeah. And never registered, but it's almost like there's a little bit of, uh, uh. Oh, you're one of those. Uh oh, really? You encounter that? Not really, but you know, you do sometimes. The business community is where I live though. Mm. And the business community is probably more like 60 40. Yeah. Independents and, and conservatives. Yeah. Uh, because hopefully they make more money and they wanna pay less taxes. But if the Republicans would actually do less taxes, that would be nice. One day. I don't know. It seems like they both raise taxes. Yeah, they're both, both parties are hurdling us to financial devastation. Just the Republicans are doing it more slowly, but stretching out the fun. Anyway, I digress. Um, but yeah, it definitely has be, become well, and part of it's just because we're in a city, you know, and if you're in a hundred person town, you don't really have room to have. Like enemies or whatever, you know, everybody's kind of friends with everybody. But as, yeah. You know, as cities get bigger and towns get bigger, then there can be kind of more room for fighting. But I, I think Fort Collins has a great community sense. Yep. Um, and I think there's a, a level of pragmatism coming back into the, into the culture. What do you mean? Um, well'cause, well, like our current city council, when they, when they. Got elected three years ago-ish. They had, uh, a list of 31 priorities. That's a lot priorities. It is a lot of priorities. Uh, historically there was only such a thing as a priority. It was not a plural word until like a hundred years ago. And I mocked that a little bit on my LinkedIn and probably got a bunch of people canceling me because of that. But, but it was like, we can't really have 31. But a lot of them were around like climate initiatives and, um. Diversity, equity and inclusion things and stuff like that. And some of those are great, but like what's Fort Collins gonna actually do to affect the climate of the world? Mm. Not that much. It doesn't, doesn't seem like it really needs to be one of the 31 priorities. Yeah. Maybe down the list a little ways or whatever, maybe have five priorities, but concentrate a little bit more on what can, yeah. What brings business in, you know, we've got a huge economic development office here in the city. But there's really not much developable land. Hmm. To, to build new manufacturing places and things like that. And so why are we expending a lot of resources to bring companies into the region that don't have any place to put their, then they just move over to Milliken, you know? Yeah. And it's like, okay, well yeah. You're welcome Milliken. Hmm. I'm not an expert on anything. Um, definitely not. And I definitely don't cancel anybody that doesn't wanna cancel me, and that's kind of where I come out with the tribalism stuff. Yeah. So, um, I wanna take a, a short break and uh, take a potty break and then we'll come back onto the mics. Sounds like a plan to me. All right. Cheers. And we're back. So one of the things I was thinking about is, um, like one of the changes in your field and not adjacent field, I guess, is things like. I guess chemically assisted trauma therapy. Oh, yeah. Uh, ketamine and mushroom psychedelics, arguably. And, uh, even ayahuasca. Yes. And different D-M-D-M-A. Mm-hmm. Like. Is that nothing, your, your firm doesn't do anything with any of that, but what is your, do you have thoughts on that? We don't. Um, the thoughts on that, from what I've read, ketamine has been the most researched. Yeah. Um, and it's FD approved, um, and has proven a lot of success with trauma and depression. Okay. And what is Ketamine? Is that like a tranquilizer of some sort or what's that substance, do you know? I think ketamine is a horse tranquilizer. Okay. I. And had been used before for recreational purposes. Yeah. Yeah. And then now is, is being used to treat, um, gotcha. Trauma, depression, um, and maybe other, other conditions. And Colorado is one of the leaders in terms of like, you know, making mushrooms not, what is it decriminalized? Yeah. Denver is, yeah. And so are there. Do you have competition from mushroom trip guides and stuff? Like are they, do they get your customers away? Sometimes they're like, I haven't like this talk therapy, but decided to go on a different route. That I don't know. Okay. I've not had clients tell, tell us anything, anything like that. I gotcha. I guess they don't really have an exit survey necessarily to just stop booking Probably most of the time. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but if it's effective and it's So you're not opposed to that. Whatever, experimentation, whatever helps, as long as it's, it's approved, done in a medical setting or uh, a setting that. Uh, yeah. Would not make the client worse. Yeah. As long as safe, it helps the client, I'm not gonna be, not gonna be against it. And how about the, the flagship product from, for Colorado marijuana? Do you find that that's interruptive in people's mental health A lot. Do you have a lot of. Clients and patients that are struggling from that space, are they hiding from their problems with marijuana? And then if they start doing therapy, they stop. Like, I would just be curious about your, your experience in that space, if there's any, uh, even anecdotal. Yeah. Short answer. Um, no, no experience besides some anecdotal experience of, um. Some of therapist is telling me that they have worked with clients who, who were meeting diagnosis for, for cannabis addiction. Okay. Um, but apart, apart from that, I think the research I. Is, might be split on some of the effects depending on the, on the presentation. Mm-hmm. So really at, at this point, I'm not dodging the bullet. Yeah. Yeah. I, I just don't have, yeah, yeah. Enough data to, to speak to it. And how about in the eating disorder space? Can you prescribe, uh, edibles to make you more. I have a better appetite if you got anorexia. I have not seen that. The, the sticky, icky I have, I have not, I have not encountered any eating disorder treatment that involved that. Okay. Just curious. Yeah. Well,'cause that was a thing with, with the. Getting medical approved was for like chemo patients that didn't have an appetite. It was like, oh yeah, here, smoke this and then you'll be, you know, have the munchies. Yeah. And uh, so I thought maybe it was cross applicable. I don't know. Well, with, with eating disorders it's about the food, but it's not about the food. Right. There is a lot more, lot more behind it. Yeah. So I wanted to go to, um, before we jump all the way in the time machine, back to, to little Julian, I wanted to go to law. Okay. Like what, what caused you to pursue,'cause law's a tough field, right? Yeah. It's like you gotta go take a bunch of education and a bunch more and you pass these exams and all that. Yeah. What, what made you I. Point yourself in that direction in the first place. Did you have a, uh, like was your dad a lawyer or something like that? No. Did he wanted you to follow in his footsteps or No? What led you to that, down that path? Um, no. My dad was in business, so that's why I said I didn't have experience, hands on experience. He had an example though, you know? Yeah. Um, but, um, law was. Um, so I was doing a actually business degree in, in, um, in college. Okay. But then again, I don't think I'm really using very much of it and the theory, uh, for, from a college for sure. Well, even an MBA, it doesn't really equip you to run a rapidly growing company. Yeah. I don't think it equips you to, to. Learn about cash flow and make payroll in that, I probably would do that. And all, all of that theories was great, but it, um, yeah, it didn't teach me much. Yeah, yeah. About, um, about being in the trenches, that's for sure. And then like after undergraduate, you're like, yeah, um, I thought it would be a good add-on. Okay. To, to the, to the business degree. So yeah, went to, went to law school down in Miami and Okay. And then worked as an intern after. Fair enough. Okay. Um, let's, uh, let's jump in the time machine and go to the way back. Okay. Is it a tradition that the local podcast? Yes. Yes. Pretty much everybody jumps in the time machine. In the time machine, yeah. Okay. We are in. First grade or first grade equivalent? Uh, somewhere in France. Yes. Uh, which is where, where's your, where? Where'd you, where were you when you were five years old? Five years old? Um, yeah, it is first grade. The equivalent of Yeah, five or six. Five six. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, I was at the school where I went from. My first kindergarten. Okay. Until graduation. Graduating from high school. Oh really? One school? Yep. Okay. One school. And was it a, a private school or a It was private. Uh, it was Catholic school, but very, um, I. Almost no religious. Oh, interesting affiliation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. More of a school enterprise run by the Catholic church kind of thing. Almost. Yeah, and it was also funded by the public system. Oh, okay. I mean, it's just not, I don't think that there's that same amount of dichotomy as in the US in between a private and and public. Gotcha. It was just the school for the kids that lived right around there kind of thing. For the most part. Exactly. As long as they didn't like hate Catholics or whatever. Yeah. The reason I went is because, yeah, we used to live. Right around the corner. Okay. Yeah. Easy peasy. Yeah. So, so how many kids were in this school? Oh, um, well, we had one class per grade. For grade school? Yeah. Yeah. Then I think we had about three classes per grade then for middle school. And those classes are like. 30 kids or something? Yeah. 20 or 30. 25. 30. Okay. So I'll let you do the math in front of your audience. Yeah. Somewhere right around 800. Yeah. Students. Something like that. Yeah. Six, 900, somewhere there. Okay. Yeah. So a pretty big school-ish. Mm-hmm. But not huge. No. Compared to some schools and reasonable class sizes and things like that. So, yeah. So where was this, uh, was it in a. City environment. Yeah. Mid-size city. Uh, what was the, like describe the, the region. What was your dad's business like? Yeah, set. Set the stage for me a little bit. Um, I. City metro area was about the size of Fort Collins. Okay, okay. That's why I feel comfortable. Yeah. Yeah. With with the side nice size city. Yeah. Yeah. And that's why Miami was not right. It was not my thing. Um, how far from the real city and is that Paris or what else? Paris was the biggest real city. Yeah. I mean, the metro was about 300,000 people. Okay. So that was still a city, a pretty big city. Yeah. Yeah. Um, good sized city. Again, not too big, not too small. Yeah. And then once you stepped out of the, the city. Very rural. Yeah. Yeah. Rolling hills. Um, Italian countryside style except France. Yeah. Wineries and such. No more, uh, cattle. Okay. Yeah. Oh, interesting. Okay. Yep. Is I didn't realize that, uh, France was a. Significant cattle producing region. Oh, yeah. Especially the region where I, where I, I grew up. Okay. So it's like the hill country almost kind of thing. Mm-hmm. So a lot of, um, especially beef. Okay. Yeah. Cool. Okay. Um, and your dad's business was what? Um, so his base, or maybe not at that time, but Yeah. Yeah. Uh, oh, no, he has always done the same thing. Okay. Since, since I grew up, um. So he was self-employed. He was his, his own boss. Um, he didn't have a company. Oh, so he didn't have a hundred employees? Uh, no. Four years later or anything he had himself. Okay. And what was he doing? Um, he was um, I dunno how you would call that. Maybe like sales rep. Oh, okay. Yep. But representing factories in between factories, multiple different products and companies. And he just bop around and sell stuff. Yeah. So in between, but at, um. More, I was gonna say bulky level in between wholesalers and, okay. Distributor and, yeah. Distributors, wholesalers, and the, the factory. So it was interesting at that. Interesting at that step, huh? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Moving it out of the factories into whatever the next step in the chain was. Mm-hmm. Yep. Okay. Cool. Mm-hmm. Um, and then your mom was, does she stay at home work as well? Stay at home mom? Yeah. Okay. Just little Julian, or did you have other siblings too? Just by myself. Oh really? Yeah. Man. You got all mom's attention. Exactly. Explains a lot. Like your personality, what does he explain? Tell me you're just waiting to find a girl like your mother probably needs all her attention now. Who knows? Um, so like, describe little Julian. Were you a good student? Were you a athlete? Were you a kissing all the girls? Like what was the Yeah, no, just, um, what do you remember about yourself back then? Yeah, good student. Um, calm, quiet. Um, hey, sports, does everybody play soccer in France too, or is that Yeah, but it was not at, um, competitive level. Okay. But the minute we went to recess, we're picking up the ball. Yeah. Yeah. And, and until the last second. Yeah. Gotcha, gotcha. So that's kind of the national sport there as many places in Europe, perhaps? Yeah. Um, basketball also. Okay. Then rugby, of course, but I, I would. And say soccer is, is probably the most popular. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then like. Through all the way through high school. And then did you go, did you come to the US for college? Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And talk to me about that. Like I can't imagine all your friends did that. Right? One of my friend did. Okay. That's how he gave me the idea. Okay. Like the year before or something like that. Okay. Exactly. So talk to me about that kind of transition and thought process and was your mommy terrified to lose her little Julian and all that kind of stuff? Yeah, that was, that was hard. Um, look, looking back at it, I, I think, I don't know if it was a mix of naivete. Hmm. Yeah. And, um, really wanting to see the world. Yeah. But when I think about it, I. I would not be able to. You're kind of surprised you made the decision. Oh, very much. Okay. And talk. So like, were you like reflective about it for a while or was it a little bit of an impulse? Your, your buddy went, he said it was awesome and you're like, right. Sign me up. You know, something in between. Yeah. Well,'cause it doesn't, it cost a ton also to attend college outta the country for international students. Kind of. Yeah. So it's a bigger investment than just going to your hometown university. Yeah. Big in big investment. Um. But my parents thought it was worth it. My dad being in business. Yeah. Always thought that I needed to, to master English to of course get a good education. Sure. Um, education in business. Um, so more of an investment. Yeah. Something that eventually would. Pay off. Yeah. Yeah. Um, which I hope it did. Did you contemplate returning to France after college or not really once you were here? Like, and, and why? Talk to me about that. Um, it just really didn't occur to me. It felt good if it's good living here. I mean, especially now. Yeah. Yeah. 25 years down the road. Um. I didn't contemplate it at at the time, and the longer I stayed, the less likely I became. Yeah. Yeah. Because I never lived as an adult in France. Fair. Yeah. Yeah. And everything you knew as an adult was already here, kind of. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Talk to me about the immigration process. Um. I assume you came like on a student visa at first? Yeah. And then you're like, Hey, can I stay kind of thing after it's done, or does absolute Does that go down? Yeah. Student visa, work visa, green card. And then now I'm a, I'm a American citizen. How long I. How long, how long did the process take, or how long have you been a citizen? I've been a citizen since 2022. Okay. So it took quite a while. Yeah. I mean, and maybe you weren't pushing it the whole time long. I got a green card and whatever. It's fine. Yeah. Um, when I had the green card, I was not pushing it. If you, if you weren't a citizen yet, would you be nervous after Trump got elected? Oh, even if you had a green card, you're like, I dunno, I'm French. I plan. Um, but I mean, I don't know. Were your, were your parents disappointed that you didn't return? Do you think, or have you talked to them about They never told me. Okay. Did they come to visit you, uh, over here pretty regularly? Yeah. Well, they're here right now. Yes. Yeah, you mentioned that. And so, but have they done that ev ever since you came here? Oh, yes. Yeah, very, very frequently. So that's, that's been great. Um, they've never thought about. Immigrating over to here? Or have they, well, not speaking English, I think. Right. It makes it tough. Yeah. That's, that really makes it tough. But otherwise, and if they spoke Spanish, it would be easier than French at least.'cause we have quite a few Spanish speakers around in Colorado at least. Yeah. Yeah. But I think that's, that's what yeah. Really stops them. And, because otherwise that would be really great. Yeah. Yeah. To, to have them around. That's something I was not thinking about 25 years ago. You could move them to Quebec. Yeah, it's a lot closer than France when you wanna visit. That's, the weather's pretty nice. Yeah. Probably not quite as nice as it is where you came from. What is the weather like in that, in that It's actually pretty rainy. Oh, is that right? Okay. Yeah. It's not Seattle. Yeah. Uh, Pacific Northwest Rainy. But, um, it's in that kind of yeah. Ish realm of. Uh, foresty stuff and, and, and pastures and stuff, but that's why there's a lot of cows is'cause the grass grows all the time. We sure have very green pastures. Fair? Fair. I mean, it was a beautiful, again, a beautiful. Beautiful area. Yeah. You're not distant in France or where you come from or nothing like that? Not at all. It just kind of nope. Was here and it just didn't really occur to me to But keep growing. Yeah. Yeah. The, the more I was planting my roots and, um, but absolutely not. Yeah. I think, I think the city where I grew up is beautiful. Yeah, little city. Um, it's not touristy, but I would recommend. Um, and he was just an easy, good quality of life. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, it just, I mean, there's no attraction there, but, um, otherwise it's, it was a very good hub upbringing. So one thing I wanted to ask you, Julian, is like, how, how does one. Of like, we know how to not have to go see the doctor. Mm-hmm. You know, you watch your diet, you exercise, you, you know, watch your blood pressure, different things, whatever. Yeah. And, and you can kind of not have to go see the doctor. Yeah. How do you not have to go see the therapist as a human living in the world today with the, with World War III and Donald Trump and COVID Nation and all the crazy stuff of the world? Like how do we, how do we stay? Not that, I mean, that sounds like you're trying, you'd be like ruining, ruining your own business. You want as many Oh no. Struggling people. But I know that your actual goal is to have people not be struggling. Yeah. So talk to me about, like, talk to me as a, as a human person, like what are some of the things I could do? Is it meditation? Is it relationships? Is it prayer? Is it journaling? Like what are some of the things I can do? Yeah. To keep my own mental health, to keep my own garden intended so I don't have to hire a gardener. To help me come un uncover some of that stuff. Well, first I think that there are life events where you have to hire a gardener. Fair. If you're going through divorce, you're, you're divorce child just died. Yeah. Something. Hire a gardener. Yeah. Fair. And it can be, it doesn't have to be even that, that can be a child, um, going from childhood to teenagers through puberty. Yeah. How, how does a parent navigate that? Uh, it can be a layoff. Um, it's, it can be for multitude of reason that. For which you may be okay. You, I may be okay to deal with that, but you may not be okay for that same reason and vice, yeah, yeah. Vice versa. Or one thing that seems relatively modest might throw me for a loop. Exactly. But something else might totally swing you after you've gone through something even worse. Exactly, exactly. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Um, like my, my wife's mom died, oh my gosh, three years ago now, I guess. Mm-hmm. And man, it's been hard for, for Jill to just really fully recover. Oh, of course. You know, and she was, she was my hero too. I mean, I loved that woman. Yeah. Um, but I've lost, you know, my own grandparents or other family or whatever and not been nearly as fd, you know? Um, anyway, so, so, so being. Acknowledging that kind of some of these events, and how do you recognize if it's time, I guess, and I know that's probably an internal question, but Oh yeah. Like, like if I have this challenge going on and I'm feeling a little funky or whatever, is that mean just, just sign up? Or like how, how do we know? I think probably people wait too long. Okay. So err on the side of not caution, like get in there Yeah. And get a tune up. Yeah. If your brakes are squeaking, like go get'em checked. Yeah. Um, why not? Yeah. You, you will have someone to reflect Yeah. On, on your situation if, um. It's, but it's also a tough decision to take. Yeah. Yeah. The vulnerable decision. Uh, yeah. Going, going to see, see someone and, and share parts of your life that have been very private. And for some, for some people, they, I. Again, like we were talking about the stigma. It's seen as a, as a failure. Yeah, yeah. A weakness kind of. I wasn't, yeah, yeah. A weakness. I was not able to to handle my stuff. Yeah. Yeah. One thing that's interesting is like you're mentioned, you're from, I don't know about if you've been active in your Catholic faith. Yeah. But you went to a Catholic school. Mm-hmm. And that you have confession, right. That tradition of confession. Oh yeah. And I think. Even for our church, you know, we have like, uh, marriage counseling things and our pastors and chaplains kind of serve a therapist type function in the military, for example. Oh yeah. Right. Um, but what does, like, how do I wanna say this quite right. Um, like has the decline of. Organized religion increased the demand for therapists and stuff like do priests and pastors and reverends and elders and stuff like that. Like it seems like a lot of times in, you know, if I imagine the world a hundred years ago, that was where the people got there. Yeah. Mental healthcare. Yeah. Right. Um, and now less people go to church and more people go to therapy. In comparison, probably, um. Is it better now? Like, I mean, those priests weren't really trained in what your people are trained in. It's a whole different field, right? Yeah. Um, but it also allows a little bit more relational and openness. You know? I think maybe that's some of the barriers that people have built up in, I guess we'll call it modern society, right? Yeah. Like you used to be a member of a church. And if your mental health started going a little sideways or whatever, you just wanted to talk to somebody, you'd go talk to the priest and people would see you like walking to the church and talking to the priest on a Tuesday afternoon. And it was a lot more, I mean, it's not like the priest would be spilling the beans about what you were talking about, but it was a, it was more of a kind of a open thing and then it kind of, I don't know. It depends on the culture, so many different cultures around. Yeah. I think, um. What has, what has played a role if, um, and I don't know about organized re religion, how it is compared to several years ago, the amount of, of people going to, going to church. Yeah. But I think a long, slow down trend mostly. Okay. So what, um. I'm coming back to the actual first question that you, that you asked me about. What, um, what would be some self-care routines to, to become more, more resilient? Um, well, I think church created a community. Yeah. Being a part of a community. Being a part of community, whether it's a church mm-hmm. Or even a local think tank chapter or a neighborhood association, or Exactly. Something chess club. Yeah. And we definitely see a decline on that. Mm. So, um, with the decline of, um, people being involved in, in religious communities. Yeah. Yeah. Then there is a decline in the togetherness of people. Yeah. Which we know, um, creates. Um. It treats loneliness, which then can lead to depress. Well, everybody that does something terrible, like these school shootings and stuff like that, they're almost all isolated. Oh, yeah. You know, and so I think that's probably true. Yeah. Be part of any community. There's an old book that was talked about in this podcast years ago. Uh, join or Die. Oh yeah. Have you heard of it? No. It's kind of like, it's talking about things like Rotary Club and Oma and the jcs and churches and stuff, and nobody's really a part of anything and it's like causing people to die, literally. Yeah. It's, it's becoming very problematic. Yeah. Yeah. Um, that, that isolation leading to loneliness and, and declining in mental health. Hmm. Interesting. Are you ready for the random questions segment. I do you have a choice? No. So you're gonna pick three of these ping pong balls. Okay. And you can just grab that whole jar if you wanna just set it beside you or something. Or just grab three. Okay. Either way. Okay. I'll grab, you can route one at a time. I like it one at time. I like it. Okay. I'm not looking the deep. Yeah. We'll get the, get the tough ones. Number five. Huh? I like this one. What, what's the most important lesson you've learned from failure? Is there such a thing as failure as long as you learn a lesson? Not necessarily, I suppose. Yeah. But what seemed like a failure at the time? Perhaps what seemed like a failure at the time? Um, using it as a way to learn to not do that same, do not do, do the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. Um, what I learned about failure is that that's when I learned the most. Hmm. During, during those, those situations, the moments immediately after, pardon? The moments immediately after the failure? Uh, yeah. The moment and leading up to the next effort. Yeah. The moment, immediately after the failure. Yeah. It's painful. Sure, sure, sure. It's painful. It's gonna happen. It's gonna happen in business. Um, it's, uh, we're just talking about loneliness. That's where having people around you. Hmm mm-hmm. To provide that support can and even perspective. Yeah. Hey, you might be feeling like you failed right now, but yeah. Look at all you've learned. Yeah. Being, being tremendously helpful. So, yeah. Um, failure, pain hurts. Sure. Um, and, and, um, I think yeah, community can be the, the most helpful to maybe damper the. The pain. Yeah. And, um, and then at, at least in business at least,'cause failure is a kind of a big Yeah, right. Um, a big term I was looking at failure more for the, the business standpoint. Fair. Fair. How? Yeah. How can I take responsibility? Um, yeah. How did I contribute to this? Yeah. How did I, how did I contribute to this? So I don't. Contribute to it. Again, one of the, uh, quips I make occasionally about, uh, why Loco Think, think is cool is, uh, it's nice to learn from the mistakes of others occasionally instead of just your own. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Alright, grab the next ball. Okay. 15. What was the last thing you Googled, or the last meme you downloaded? The last thing I Googled, well, let me tell you. I. What's your last thing? I, last last thing I googled was, uh, your address, because I forgot where it was on the calendar, where the, the, the reasonable local think tank where the chapter meeting was gonna be here today. What, where the chapter meeting was gonna be today. Oh no. I knew he was gonna be here, but I forgot. Right. We were, which, uh, which road to turn from? From Riverside. Very good. Um, what's your social media of choice? Do you do that? Do you go on X or Facebook or Instagram? No. Or any of those? Um, I use Facebook, um, only for, um, therapy group, especially as we're going to, to new, new cities. So last thing I Googled What, what spies go on. Broccoli. Oh, on broccoli? Yeah. I think just salt. Yeah. At least what for me? Yeah. That's maybe lemon pepper or something too. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's exactly what Google told me. See, I just ask me from now on, you're, you're walking Google. One more, one more ping pong ball and uh, we'll move on to the local experience. Okay. Hold on. Drinking your Very delicious Yes. Blood orange. It's nice water. That, that, that, uh, that bubble water, which is what, what brand is that again? I forget. Anyway, it's colored, like most of the bubble water doesn't have any color to it, but I like actually having something to look at instead of just a ghost of orange. The transparency. Yeah. Uh, number two, no, 27. Right. Yep. Seven. Do you have a question? 27. I'm gonna ask you number two first though.'cause this one's too funny. Ava, on this one. So I'm gonna get four questions. Four questions. Yeah. I just wanted, I just, I'm gonna come back for 27. Uh, would you rather Ava, if it's a bad question that's I'm blaming you, would you rather fight one horse size duck or 100 duck size horses? Think about it for a second. Yeah, that, that's a heck of a radar. So say that again. Would you rather fight one horse sized duck or 100 duck sized horses, a huge duck, or a bunch of small horses? I would think of it as just like a my little pony smashing session. Um, kicking horses all over the place.'cause they don't have like that, that big duck is gonna have a gigantic, like even little ducks have like a thumb sized bill. Yeah. So a horse sized duck would probably be able to take your whole head in then just kill you. Whereas a duck sized horse, like horses have kind of little nibbler mouse in comparison. So I think they would nip you a lot, but how are they gonna actually hurt you? Heard, I think. I think, I think this is truly the craziest question I've ever been asked, but you still have to answer. Yeah. That's the real, oh, I still have to answer. Yeah. Yeah. One duck size horse, or one or no one horse size duck, or 100 ducks size horses, you know that. I will remember that question. For the rest of my life, it's gonna h haunt me. I hope so the rest of my life. You're welcome. Um, I would've said neither because I probably would be hiding at home trying to answer that question. Um, I don't know. Um, a hundred was that little horses? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Have you seen the, uh, the 100 men against a gorilla, uh, memes online at all lately? No. There's, so there's this meme or a joke or whatever, like. You know who would win in a fight, a gorilla or 100 men, and it got running around for a while. And then there's all these jokes where these women are like, honey, I signed you up for a new contract job. All you have to be is one of 100 men that that fight a gorilla. And his husband is like, who's gonna be first? Like Yeah. How does that go down? Oh, it's one after the other. It's not 100 at a time. Well, or a hundred at a time. But still, who rushes the gorilla? Like, I'm gonna be one of the 20 dudes that just kind of stand back a little bit and see how the first 80 fair probably, or like a rugby type of, uh, basically yeah, when you got the rugby guy and there's Andre the Giant in the game. Oh yeah. Um, okay. So 27. What's the strangest way you've ever injured yourself? Oh God. Um. I will tell you several, which is, which is me bumping myself against furniture. Oh yes. And then three days later I'm look at my leg and where's this, where coming from? And I don't know, I guess I'm getting older.'cause yeah, my hips right here have a lot of bruises on him from taking corners too tight and stuff. Do you think it's old age? Yeah, I suppose like we're just not as connected to our bodies as we used to be. Yeah. Awareness wise. Yeah. And you're like, Ugh, I didn't even barely remember bumping then I got this big old bruise there now. Yeah, that's, I, I keep doing that, um, outta frequency that I wish I was not doing it. So weirdest is bumping into furniture, just random bruises that you don't know where they came from. Yeah. I'm not gonna sound daily basis, but all too often for my taste. Fair, fair. Um, and the loco experience is our closing segment. And, uh, I know you're a little shy, but I know you've got that one crazy experience from high school or something, that it's not shyness. No, I cannot think about it. Really. You don't have any crazy experiences? Well, this has been pretty crazy. Like I, your payroll has gone from like$3,000 a month to a lot. I don't know how much. A lot. Yeah. 300,000 a month or some dumb thing. Craziest experience, um, I would say I'm. I tend to be pretty risk averse on a day-to-day basis, but they are of course the two biggest, crazy, wild rides have been mo me moving to the US and me opening. Momentum. Mm-hmm. Um, like I said, I don't know what got through me to move to a different country having basic Were you kind of that same risk averse young man and stuff too? Yeah. Like that was still outta character? Yeah. Yeah. Looking back, I don't know what got through my head that I thought with. Very basic academic knowledge of the English language that I could move to, to a different country. But at the end of the day, it worked out. Yeah, it worked out nicely, but that was, uh, was rough. How long did it take you to feel comfortable in the US and, and especially as far as your communication went? Fluency, communication. I think it got better. It didn't get. Yeah, perfect. Very or very high level. Well, you still talk kind of funny. Yeah, yeah, I know. It's fine. But you can say the thing I can't, so Yeah. Um, I would say after one semester, okay. It got much better, much better. And then it kept increasing maybe over the next. Two couple of years maybe. Yeah. But there was a big jump kind of by the time you Yeah. The first six months was huge. And then Exactly, yeah. You kind of topped out there right after college and didn't really lose much of your accident after that. Yeah, it was. What did you say? What did you say? I like it. I don't, we don't have very many. I know probably about a half dozen French immigrants in Fort Collins here. A few that have different businesses. A property management company is owned by a couple of a French couple in town here. Oh, really? Some stuff, yeah. I'll probably have to try to figure out. I can make you some introductions if you've been missing. Do you have anybody to talk French with when your parents aren't here? Um, Nope. Oh, well, uh, you guys follow Julian on LinkedIn and, and send him a message if you're a native French speaker or even just getting good at it. You wanna have Yeah. Phone calls, practice phone calls. I know for, for Lenny, our exchange student, like he really missed just talking and finish. He would talk to his parents once a week for half an hour or something like that. Yeah. But otherwise there was nobody to talk to in Finn, hardly. Uh, for me it was very draining, very mentally draining at first. Yeah. To be speaking a different language. Translating everything. Yeah. Translating everything in my head. That was, um, I. Yeah. And you do everything in English now. Yeah. Like your dreams are in English. Yeah. Your thoughts come in English first. You don't have to translate that stuff. Exactly. Once in a while you're looking for a perfect word and you're like, whatever the French word of this is, I suppose, but it's more the opposite. Oh really? Yeah. Yeah. Because, um, especially with words that are more technical maybe in the industry kind of relative. Yeah. Ex. Exactly. Then. I have a hard time explaining that to, to my parents. Sure, sure. Because that has replaced, um, the English world. It's not that it has replaced something that existed, that existed for me before, but it was kind of defined And it was defined kind of in English for you as far as that goes. Yes. Interesting. Yeah. Um, and like as far as the momentum experience goes, yeah. You know, you could have just stopped hiring people. I could after two or three or four or 10 or, you know, like, did it just not seem risky? Um, along that journey it failed very natural. Okay. Um, we had the clients. Um, uh, I didn't want to turn them away. Yeah. So I kept, I kept hiring. Yeah. And you knew that some other places weren't as good as you were already? Pardon me? You knew that some other. Firms weren't as, weren't doing as good as stuff like you wanted do things different and better. Yeah. Not, not necessarily. I think that there is a great community of therapist. Mm. So it's almost like a No Child Left Behind. Yeah. We wanna be able to provide service for everybody that wants it. Yeah. Needs it. Yeah. Has insurance. Yeah. Virtually. Yeah. Or Medicaid. Um, so it, it felt like it was a natural progression. We have the clients. Enough to, to provide enough clients to our current therapist. Yeah. Therefore provide them enough income. Yep. Then let's, let's keep going. We have young therapists. Young interns, yep. That need more hours. We've got supervisors with enough capacity. Yeah. Let's just keep rolling. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, I'll tell you like my first two, three employees. There were some days I was pretty hard. Like, what did I do? I just hired this person. I have no clue if it's gonna keep going because it's not, because we have, we have a lot of clients now that will have enough clients for, for this person. And they, they trusted me with, with their job. Yeah. Yeah. And eventually it worked out. Worked out. Yeah. Cool. Well, I've been impressed. Uh, it's really neat to see. I was a banker for a long time. I don't know. I don't remember if I've ever seen a company grow quite as fast, like from a Oh really? From a year over year revenue growth. And it's just un, it's just unusual, you know? Even the OtterBox dude was like, yeah, we're a 30 year overnight success. You know, they, they went 20 years until they really caught fire and hit that hockey stick, but they never really, you know, it wasn't just a. We started and everybody wanted our stuff right away, so. Oh, I didn't know that. No, I mean, I thought it was a newer company. Oh, no, no. It was around for 20 years, at least before it started really getting popular. Oh. So, but he is still got a bigger balance sheet than you. You got a long ways to go. And he's a manufacturer, so you'll never make his kind of margins probably. Yeah, that's okay. Yeah, that's, yeah, it's definitely, but you're doing what you wanna do. Risky in the, the goods as opposed to, to services, I think. Totally. Totally. I think, um, but yeah, I've loved every minute since, for the past, for the past four years. Yeah. It's, um, yeah, I Would you ever go back and get like an MBA or something to feel like you've got that business education or you can get everything you need from videos and tutorials and learning. Um, first I've been in school too long. I really do not want to be, I've got back in school, eight years in school already, so too many schools. So if knock on the wood, I don't have to go to school. That's, that's good. And the idea of business school compared to being in the trenches, right? Like, I gotta look at my bank accounts. I can get some reports and learn. Um, um, I don't think. Um, business. Is business school gonna teach you, um, how to coach an employee? Yeah. How to build teams, how to yeah, how, yeah, how to set, build, set up KPIs for every single member of your team. Exactly. Um, thank you by the way, for how's Good conversation this afternoon. Yeah, yeah. We just had a conversation earlier. Um. About if you should go to another market, if, um, if you should offer different services. Um, there is a lot more Um hmm. Way to your decisions when it's your own money. Totally, totally. And it's not a paper. A hundred percent. Yeah. So, um. I'm learning as a, the learning progression goes faster. Yeah. When you're, when you're playing with your own money instead of dad's university. Uh, pen check writer. Oh yeah. You gotta make decisions fast. I'll, I'll tell you that when my dad sent me, uh, off to college, uh, he said, son, uh, I'd be able the farm's big enough now I'd be able to help you with your schooling a little bit. Um, but I think you get a lot more out of it if you pay for it yourself. And it's kind of that way. Yeah. These lessons you're learning right now, these last four years are probably the biggest and, you know, potentially most expensive, but also potentially most lucrative decisions you're gonna make. And, and I just learned so much that, I'm very thankful that that, of course, that the company's working well. Yeah. And the enjoyment that I have out of it is it's very empowering to be your own boss. Do you miss. Direct care therapy. Um, being in the trenches, I think I was, I was getting burnt out. Oh, really? Toward, toward the end. So I don't, don't miss it, but I'm, but all you guys that work for momentum that are gonna listen to this, you guys should stay a long time. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, it had been 15, 20. Uh, 2021. So I'd been over 10 years of Yeah, yeah. Of practice. And I've gone through periods in my career that were dedicated more to the clinical work. Mm-hmm. Other periods where that was more, more contexting stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Go more to toward, you know, contemplating business. Mm. So it's not, because right now. Um, I'm more dedicated to the business and more attracted to the business that I wouldn't go back. Well look at the leverage you have, like if you can help a hundred employees do a better job of finding a great place to work, learning with great supervision, providing great care to their, their customers, hearing them. Mm-hmm. You know, that's way more than you could ever do by yourself. Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely, definitely a much, much bigger, bigger impact. Yeah. And sometimes I have to stop and just think Yeah. That, uh, especially when I look at payroll and thinking, oh, I all three years, if this payroll doesn't go through, and this is gonna be a lot of impact, a lot of people's budgets here, more like, oh, three years ago that was a more realistic payroll. Right, right. That's pretty wild. Yeah. Well, congratulations on all your growth and success and, uh, many, many more chapters of, uh, could you service to your clients and Yeah. And to your team. And, uh, thank you for having me. Thank you for having me as part of the, the local think tank. Of course, um, I learned a tremendous. Amount and looking forward to learning more. Awesome. Um, and meeting more, more business owners. You know, when we're talking about the isolation. Yeah. Yeah. It's, um, it's nice to be around other business owners that are going through the same, the same wins, the same struggles. Um, so, um. I, uh, I feel that I found my tribe. Awesome. That's really nice to hear with everyone in the group. That's really cool. Well, Godspeed, Julian, and uh, we'll look forward to your next return. Alright. Talk to you soon. Bye. Cheers.
