Ep. 19 - Navigating School Camps with T1D - Sharing the Parent Experience with Hayley

In Episode 19, Hayley shares her very recent experience after going on school camp with her youngest son who has T1D. She talks about the decision-making process of whether to go as a parent, the communication side of things and planning of camp with the school, as well as navigating all the extra activities and camp menu. Some very practical tips are shared in this episode. We also talk about the challenges with children not particularly wanting a parent on their camp. We chat about how they managed the insulin pump and CGM side of things, switching back to injections for a day due to water-based activities. Hayley reflects on the emotional side of this experience, and it certainly wasn’t her first, as her eldest son also has T1D. We hope this helps parents on their journey!

Useful Resources:

Diabetes in Schools - Diabetes Australia

Training and Support | Diabetes in Schools - Diabetes Australia

Diabetes at school - Diabetes Australia

Example school plans from Diabetes WA
2020-135-dwa-school-campplan_t1-insulin-pump_2021.pdf (diabeteswa.com.au)

2020-135-dwa-school-campplan_t1-insulin-injection_2021.pdf (diabeteswa.com.au)

Please get in touch if you have any kind of diabetes and would like to share. We would love to have parents or family members on too.

Women with Gestational Diabetes - sharing your experience will certainly help others on their journey, so please do reach out if you are willing :-)

Pre-diabetes ? We would love to hear about your experience and journey too!

Don't forget to rate us on your favourite podcast app so we can help more people living diabetes feel less alone!

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Jaimee and Hayley (@diabetesintheraw)
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Transcript

0:05

Welcome to Diabetes in the Raw podcast. I'm Jamie. I'm Hayley. And together we are Diabetes in the Raw. We both live with diabetes, but in different ways. Jamie has type 1 diabetes and has lived with it for over 25 years and is also a credentialed diabetes educator. Hayley has two boys who both have type 1 diabetes. Listen in as we share our lived experiences and our guest share theirs. Please get in touch via our socials or email if you would be interested in coming on as a guest. Our contact details will be in the show notes. Nothing in this podcast is intended as individual medical advice. Always talk to your healthcare team before making changes to your diabetes management.

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 0:42

Hi everyone, welcome back to another episode of Diabetes in the Raw. We've got Hayley back today. How are you going Hayley?

audioHayleyMason11733178002 0:50

Um, well, thanks, Jamie.

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 0:51

And we've got a really, interesting topic today. We're going to talk about type 1 diabetes and school camps. Hayley's just, had her youngest go on a school camp with type 1 diabetes, and we're going to talk about the Diabetes Australia training opportunities that schools have as well and sort of what's required for planning for a camp with a child with type 1 diabetes, which is massive, isn't it, Hayley?

audioHayleyMason11733178002 1:17

Yeah, Hugh, there was a, even though this was our second one going on camp, a bit of a different character, so yeah, lots of planning.

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 1:24

Yeah. So do you want to just start with how many children are at the school that your youngest one is at? Master J, isn't it?

audioHayleyMason11733178002 1:33

Master Jay, there would be, so they're prepped to ten, maybe about 230 children.

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 1:39

So pretty small school.

audioHayleyMason11733178002 1:41

Very small school, um, just one class a year. I think his class is maybe about 18 children or so, and our two boys are currently the only two in the school with, type one.

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 1:56

And so do you know if your school has done any training specifically around type 1 diabetes or camps at all?

audioHayleyMason11733178002 2:03

They do do training. They do have the, I'm going to say school now. She's not specific to the school. She's an area nurse. They, so they do have training. I believe they've also done some online training. And there's, I'm going to say specific designated teacher aides and teachers. monitor. So our eldest in high school, self manages and master J in primary. Still, he has. So it's really assisted management for him. He does all the button pushing, picks what he's going to eat, adds up the carbs, and then he's just watched over to make sure he's done it.

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 2:45

Perfect. And so we will put in the show notes, the link, there is level one, two, and three trainings for school. So let's just jump into your experience, because I think a lot of parents will benefit from, you know, what you've been through and your experiences and things. How long was the camp for and how far from your home was it?

audioHayleyMason11733178002 3:05

So camp for us was, three days, two nights, and it was, I'm going to say it's about 200 kilometers from home. It was a near on four hour drive, but that was because of traffic. But so yeah, around a three hour drive.

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 3:20

And you mentioned Masterj's 10 and... Pretty independent, but obviously still needs some supervision.

audioHayleyMason11733178002 3:28

yes. He is independent, but very prone to, I'm busy. I'm having fun. Yeah. I've heard you say I've got a bolus. Oops, didn't bolus. and also I think can sometimes be, yeah, might be feeling a bit low, but I'm really enjoying what I'm doing. Don't want to take time out. and always very happy to do a bit of pump off activity so it doesn't get in the way. So he does need some supervision to ensure he's done what he needs to. but his actual knowledge Is pretty good. He's very good in the classroom and we'll discuss with the teacher what needs doing but identifies and knows when when they need to call home. So, pre camp, there was discussion with the school, and it mostly surrounded the overnight supervision. Two of the teachers who were going to be going have had one teacher aid, sorry, one teacher had him in. Um, and we're very au fait with managing, um, but there then was a change in staffing and that teacher wasn't going, but the teacher aid was. So the, the concern was mostly overnight and how much attending to he may need overnight, and that was based on their observations of some days at school, him needing a lot more managing because of lows. Um. And I won't deny the suggestion that I go with them, went a huge way to alleviate, alleviating my anxiety. Um, at 10, he was younger than his brother was when he went on camp. And also his brother was more reliable. Being, being able to rely on him more to do what he's meant to do. Um, so, and sorry, I also say that Master Jay's IBD is more volatile. It can bounce around like a ping pong ball a lot more than his brother's. So on the one hand, I was fairly relieved at the thought of going on camp. But on the other, um, felt he should have his camp experience without parents, because that's a big part of it too, the, the social interaction just with your peers and doing everything for yourself. And also it was just another reminder that damn diabetes was getting in the way again, because but for diabetes. I wouldn't have been going anywhere near camp.

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 6:02

Yeah, and you know, I think everything you've said in terms of Age appropriate management of type 1, not that there is a specific age for any level of independent. It's so individual, but I think even in high school, I remember, um, I had someone come when I was 14. Sure. I was just diagnosed, but that's year 9. And I remember Mark, who's had diabetes for over 40 years, that came on recently. He was saying his mum went on every camp. And I know some parents just go for nights. So when I was working in one of the, um, paediatric services, some of the parents would just come at night time as well. But it's very hard when you're 200k away to be able to do that sort of thing. So.

audioHayleyMason11733178002 6:44

Yes, we're fortunate that the original intention was that I would be down and staying about 20 minutes from where camp was because we've got family there. And that was the intention. and then anyway, as discussions, um, carried on with the school, it was envisaged that really I was just there to manage the nighttime because whether it's their rules or whatever, but if there was a lot of supervision during the night, you know, those 15 minute retest, if that was repeated, and what was their capacity capability and responsibility for supervising students. The next day. So I wasn't actually involved in camp or activities the first day. I did go along. it was a very active camp. I would say a lot more activity than what a lot of children would've been used to. And partly that's'cause there was a lot of walking to and from activities as well as the activity themselves. so. I did attend activities the first day, the second day I did the morning walk, but I didn't go down for the morning activities. I actually stayed back and did some work and then joined them later. So it was a mix of what I did. and it was up to me how much or how little time I wanted to spend with them during the day.

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 8:05

So one thing that the school plan mentions here is phone, like connectivity in terms of being able to follow as well. But are you following

audioHayleyMason11733178002 8:15

We, we don't flow. So our rule in our house was you get a phone when you go to high school. I did actually look. At connecting his pump to a phone for me to follow for camp, but the old phones we had in the house are too old to do that. So his pump does connect to my phone, obviously, while we're in the house, and that's what we use overnight. But very, very luckily, what deliberate planning I was placed in the cabin next to his. And we actually found that if I. Prop my phone in the bathroom of my cabin, it picked up his pump anyway. So I just set it on a loud volume that I knew I would hear from the bed overnight and I was able to follow him that way. So I didn't have to do.

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 9:04

well?

audioHayleyMason11733178002 9:05

alarms to get up to check him during the night because I could rely on the phone picking up his pump.

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 9:13

And did you say, when it was suggested that you went, was that your suggestion or the school's suggestion?

audioHayleyMason11733178002 9:20

I'll be honest, it was probably a slight mix. I was invited to go in and discuss with the staff about camp and what was going to happen and they raised their concerns about the overnight and that's when it was discussed that perhaps I could go just. To be there for overnight. Um, and look, I did fairly readily agree. I did say I would have to talk to Master J. He wasn't over keen when it was first mentioned, but he would have remembered his brother saying no too when I was asked to go on his camp for different reasons, not diabetes related. but I think what helped him, one of the teacher aides, It went, her son was there and they did at the school actually asked for another parent supervisor to attend to assist. So there was again another child who had a parent. So he was one of three who had parents on camp. And like I said, with the activities, I didn't involve myself. I wasn't there to manage behavior, help with activities. So I, as much as I could, I took a real backseat with that. You know, now and again, I offered a bit of help, mostly just photos for them and sat in the background. And yeah, I didn't sit with him at dinners, I'd just give him a bolus before we ate and that was it.

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 10:42

It's hard to, because parents work, you know, like cost of living and that's huge at the moment. So for people to take time off work to go to camps and that, because of course you want your kids to be able to go, it must be so hard around that.

audioHayleyMason11733178002 10:55

That, that is another, big consideration. I'm fortunate that I work for myself from home and I can pick when I work and I can work from anywhere. So I did actually do a few hours while I was away, but the person I contract who is very understanding and, you know, takes no issue with it. And I just simply say to people. You're going to wait a few more days because I have to do this. But if I had to, well, two things. If I had to take leave, or even unpaid leave, that would be a massive consideration. And if I'd had to pay to go to the camp as well, which I didn't have to, um, they would be two really big considerations that could impact the decision of whether you can attend.

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 11:39

So just sort of jumping back to planning, I mean, Were you given a menu and an itinerary? I know you said the activity was pretty high because that can be hard to plan for. And then, do you want to talk about on and off the pump and things like that as well?

audioHayleyMason11733178002 11:56

So, I was also asked for a management plan for school camp, which, you know, initially I thought, well, why, if I'm going to be there? But I did one, we, we had a meeting with our diabetes educator and she prepared a school plan, but did note at the end of it that I would be there as well. I did have a timetable for Activ that set out each day. Meticulously, so I knew exactly the activities. I knew that all of them were water based activities. And we knew the time slots allowed for them. I didn't have a menu, but the camp had provided one when our eldest went two years ago, I took the decision not to ask for it because I was going to be there. However, when I got there, uh, one of the instructors was type one and wore the same type of pump, so that was very handy and they. He said that I could ask the kitchen for, carb counts and they gave me a typed out carb count for most meals. So some of them,

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 13:06

that's crazy. Like, that would be unheard of. For the parents out there, that's very unlikely, but very lucky. If something had to work in your favour,

audioHayleyMason11733178002 13:16

that, that was just so, so, so handy. It really was that I had that reference. Some meals I looked at and went, Oh, I wouldn't normally bolus that much. And I was able to say to one of the instructors, would you bolus that much for one pancake? And he said what he'd normally do. But of course, what we didn't factor in was that Master J had cereal too and just neglected to tell me he'd had cereal to get a bolus. But that was good because once I found out, I knew why he was then high. So with the activities, what we decided, because the first day and the third day were split, uh, half days, the first day up until lunchtime, it was traveling and lunch and then activities in the afternoon, we just did pump off. so I think the first day might have been stand up paddle boarding. And looking at the timings, we knew it was going to be less than two hours that he'd actually be pump off. Um, and I just stayed as close to him as I could with the pump in the hope that it would still pick up levels so we didn't have to finger prick. There was that night, he'd actually had quite a few lows on the bus on the way down. I drove separately again to give him the true experience and wasn't quite sure I wanted to be on a bus with 40

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 14:31

No, I think

audioHayleyMason11733178002 14:32

year olds.

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 14:32

choice. Despite the price of fuel these days, that was a good choice for Yosanity.

audioHayleyMason11733178002 14:36

I think so. So I did catch up with them. Uh, they had to stop and he'd had a few loads. So we just sorted those out, stayed, stayed, um, okay. During activities that evening, there was again, a night walk. And even though we did quite a heavy under bolus, uh, with dinner, I think just the. length of the walk, certainly the intensity coming back because the hill was near on vertical. We did drop low again. So there was quite a few lollies consumed. So I was unbelievably surprised that I didn't have to get up during the night that he stayed, he stayed within range all night, which was fantastic. The next day was a full day of activities and in discussions with our educator, it was determined that it was probably too much to be on off pump because this might not get enough insulin to carry through. So we did a levomir injection in the morning. Um, and as I'd. probably anticipated didn't work that well. We were high by the afternoon and high as in 20 plus high. I had reduced what I'd done. We looked in the pump. It is total daily dose for the past seven days. Looked at the proportion that was basal, then half that because it was only going to be for the I think 10 hours we suspended the pump for and then knocked about 30 percent off because of activity. But with the activity is hard to determine exactly how active. They will be. So he ended up high. Um, but I just once put him back on the pump. I actually took him out of auto mode. Don't do this unless you're very comfortable with it. This isn't medical advice. I did override the pump and give an extra bolus. Just to help bring him down. And then I set him on a temp basil in manual mode. And I think I got up at around 1130 and felt that his levels were down enough for me to put him back into auto mode, which I did. And then the pump again, just gradually brought him back down beautifully in rain without dropping him low. So again, the second night went really well. Um, it kind of made me feel a bit of a fraud for being there.

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 16:59

I was about to say, now you said that to me offline, and I thought, oh yeah, but as you talk about what you just did, there's no way you could expect even the best trained school teacher or, um, aide to do that, like do an injection and then do that override. I mean, they would have been on the phone to you all the time, would have been panicking. I

audioHayleyMason11733178002 17:21

that's right. And I would, I would never ask. a teacher to do that. I have never asked that school to take them out of what we call smart guard, the automatic mode, run them in manual, give more than the pump wants to give. That's, that's something I can do, but that's not something I would ever expect anyone else to do. That said, I do, because I did say to the teacher aid, you know, I felt a fraud and she just said that if you hadn't been here, this is not how it would have been. So by contrast, the day before camp, we had a swimming carnival and went high that night. I think I got up at least five times. That night to help bring down or deal with pump alarms. The night we got back from camp, I must admit, I slept extremely solidly, but Hubby, I think, was up at least six times, um, tending to lows and the like. So, um, extremely fortunate while we were on camp, but they are the realities that you don't know what it's going to be like. It can be the unexpected. Other concerns I had were, um, um, Because of all the water activity, we were on and off stand up paddleboards, dragon boating, all those sorts of things. Very, very concerned about possibly a pump site being ripped out. Um, so, you know, we went armed with everything. We had the glucagon. We had syringes. We had extra sites, reservoirs, extra sensors. Um, but fortunately the technology all worked for us. And overall, he had an awesome time on camp.

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 19:02

And that's the main thing, and I think because you've done it for so long, and for both your children, you probably minimize how much you're doing, like, for me listening, and having listened to other parents, that, that's huge what you've had to do, and um, as you said, you couldn't expect the school to do it, so. I think,

audioHayleyMason11733178002 19:25

I'm going to say so actually on the drive down to camp, I was and I was thinking about a podcast, excuse me, because as I was driving, I, I was very conscious and very aware of why I was driving following that bus. And it did emotionally hit me very hard because it was a yes, he's still going on camp. But these are all the extras that we've had to put in. We've had that meeting with diabetes educators, discussions with the school, talking to him about being responsible for management, watching levels, listening to his body, and then my very presence there. So on an emotional level that hit me quite hard and I thought, yeah, this is a definite in the raw, um, time. And you're right, you do minimize what you do because it does unfortunately become your norm. So just wandering slightly off track, but in the past few days, I haven't felt the best. Now you couple that with constant getting up through the night. And I've learned now I've got to listen to my body and I have to look after myself. I can't look after them. You know, I've had nights where I haven't woken and heard the alarms and then all of a sudden we, or both of us hear it an hour and a half later and go, Oh, been sat in the threes for over an hour. Now, it's again, that that's not a call for pity call for sympathy. It's you beat yourself up over it because you think I should have heard that I should have dealt with it. So last night. We had swimming club and he'd been sitting like he'd had a low day at school. We'd had unbowlist food. He was sitting low at swimming club. So I just said, let's have a sleepover tonight. Because I knew then if he was in the bed with me, all I had to do was roll over in the night. I didn't have to get up, turn lights on and switch my brain on more. I could deal with anything that the night brought much easier. And again, Sod's Law. I didn't need to do anything for him during the night. But, um, yeah, you, you are right. You do minimize what you do as you would

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 21:40

I just think, you know, what you just said is, is why we do this podcast. Cause I hope that some parents listen to that and stop beating themselves up as much. Cause you're always going to do it. Because they've, they've done the same or they feel the same or they can't talk to their healthcare team because they feel judged or whatever it might be, hopefully not. But, you know, I feel like you sharing that will help at least one or two other parents just think,

audioHayleyMason11733178002 22:07

I hope so.

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 22:08

alone. I'm not, I'm not the only one. I'm not a terrible parent. Like. It's, it's huge what, what you're having to do. And you've got two children, remember, that you're doing this for as well.

audioHayleyMason11733178002 22:19

And I think as well, you have to check yourself and go, I'm not, I'm not being a helicopter parent. Part of my going was relieving pressure on the other staff. Because let's say it wasn't a full on day of activities and he was dropping low. Well, given that the plan would be you, you test because he, especially on the day when he wasn't on pump, you test. You treat the low, you wait 15 minutes, you retest. Well, if that's one that's not coming up, they could easily be sat there half an hour to 45 minutes when they have a whole other group of children coupled with, um, my own child missing out on activities. So we were very much of the view of if in doubt, we just give some extra lollies or, or biscuits, something banana to keep, to keep up and we'll under bowl us a bit because the key was. To get him involved in the activities and make sure that he could, um. But that's a, you know, your reality, you know, your own reality and where things have been for you, where things can go, what works for your child in terms of activity, how you manage that food, what you give them. You know, like another example, it's these reactions of others are what very often brings back to me. Oh, yeah, perhaps I'm in my head. I might think, Oh, am I just being dramatic? Then when you see other people's reactions, you go, actually, I'm not. It's just that that's my reality. And I'm worried that people will think I'm being dramatic when in fact, their reaction shows. You're being anything but. So I asked the swim squad during the week, Master Jay hopped out. I hadn't actually seen him hop out, but he hopped out and came up to me and said, I'm low. And I said, Oh, okay, well, you're very, very pale. And he sat down and he tested at 1. 6. So I immediately flew out the grandstand, running, shouting, Can I have a soft drink? Can I have a soft drink? And actually another parent, as I was hobbling on, like an old lady, hopped down at the grandstand, ran and grabbed the drink, brought it back. And everyone was very much, What else do we need to do? Is he okay? And I'm like, Yeah, no, he's okay. He'll be fine. Probably still had a bit of water on his fingers. I said, I can tell he's definitely low, but maybe not that low. And it was on reflection later that evening. What's it like? Yeah, you're not being dramatic. It's just, we know what the consequence is. could be. So I think my advice would be anyone whose child is going on school camp, speak with your school, work out everybody's level of comfort, the level of comfort of the supervising staff going, of, dealing with situations that may occur, their knowledge, your level of comfort. I know people, with children who, who have, Other conditions to manage. It may be that the child did the camp, but then went and slept nearby with the parent. They were back at camp before breakfast the next morning. Nobody really knew any different. Work out what you're comfortable with, what, what you think your problematic areas might be, and just work out that plan and be comfortable. Would I go on school camp again? 100%. Because if that's what allows my child to participate in exactly the same way as every other child, then that's what I would do all day, every day.

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 25:52

Yeah, and I was going to say, I think you being there is the difference between that being possible and not, because it's selfless that you think about having to pull a teacher away from another. However, many students to look after yours, because I've been in the middle of parents wanting one thing school, whether it's want or can't provide or whatever it is, but there's been a discrepancy there and you're in the middle and you do have to bring it back to what's realistic. What are your expectations? What can we provide? And if the school is saying we can't provide that. It could be fear. It could be reality. Um, but yeah, you made that possible. So it is really important that communication. And I think if you do need your healthcare team to get involved, then the school plans often need to be signed off by your diabetes educator or your Endocrine doctor, whoever it might be, but it is most important that the school and the parents have that mutual understanding. And obviously that if the child's old enough to have some say it would be nice, but as you've sort of experienced, the kids aren't always happy to have mum or dad or carer on the camp. But reality is you wouldn't have been able to participate like you did if you weren't there. So I, I always think of you like at the athletics, hiding in the bush. Do you want some, do you want some lollies to keep? No, I'm good. Okay. Back you go in your camos.

audioHayleyMason11733178002 27:21

that's it. I like that. I think I might try that. Um,

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 27:25

even picturing you driving next to the bus to get your CGM. Following,

audioHayleyMason11733178002 27:31

yes, that

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 27:31

on the window.

audioHayleyMason11733178002 27:33

sadly that that didn't happen. And of course I needed, I need about needed a bathroom stop before. But anyway,

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 27:39

my story. It sounds so cool on the M1 line.

audioHayleyMason11733178002 27:44

I think, I think another thing advice is. Don't be afraid to ask. So when, when Master B went on his camp two years ago, it was at the same camp. I did ring them and spoke to the catering department and the, I don't know if it was a shame, same chef as it was this time round, so obliging, gave me the full menu, went through, looked at packaging, looked at packets, gave me as much information as they could. So, even though I wasn't there, I had some idea of what to suggest for boluses. Now, the difficulty was some of the meals did actually change when they were there and they didn't have them. But, nowadays, with phones and everything, the teachers just text me a photo. And I'll go, okay, let's try X, Y, Z. Mmm.

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 28:32

a really good point. I remember on one camp, I got caught out with the mashed potato because it was Deb. Packet mashed potato where the carb content is a lot less than real potato. So there's always those sorts of things as well. And even with the best planning, I mean, hopefully that would come out if you know, this, this school camp planning guide is,. It's fantastic. And of course it is. Diabetes Australia have put it together and it's obviously been very carefully planned out with schools and parents in mind. So we will definitely put that in the show notes. before we wrap up, is there any, like, anything else you want to add or anything you want to

audioHayleyMason11733178002 29:14

I wish I'd been a bit better before I went

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 29:16

I was going to say those, that night walks. Hayley came back 10 kilos lighter.

audioHayleyMason11733178002 29:21

Oh, and walking with backpacks on your back. Look, I think that first day, even with a four hour car journey, I still racked up over 16, 000 steps in that day. And I didn't do the activities. I just did the walking to and from and the night walk. So you covered that with activities on top. That's a lot of steps for little feet.

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 29:41

Yeah, and you think about the effect of hypos for 24, 48, 72 hours later from that, it could be huge, so.

audioHayleyMason11733178002 29:50

And I think that's really what we saw because we saw those on the night we came back. And, you know, we had a treat dinner. We had a takeaway dinner, but we still saw those, those loads. And I think it was because. We all knew that he could, because it was within easy reach. I didn't, I, the one time I did go in during the night, I did disturb the whole cabin. The door was really creaky. And it squeaked really loud as I went in. And two little kids just shot, pulled up right in the bed. And I've got a little torch. I'm saying, it's okay. It's

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 30:24

Oh, I know when I was staff on a camp with, you know, like, I don't know, 60 kids or something. It's like, you've got the head torch on and no CGMs in those days

audioHayleyMason11733178002 30:34

No fingerprints.

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 30:35

like some kids don't wake and others are like, Oh, I'll do my own finger pricking. But, um, Oh, your, your experience is so valuable and. I need to advertise this podcast more but if you are out there and you know anyone with a child with type 1 or any parent or schools share this so this is Diabetes in the Raw and I'm so grateful you've jumped on and shared this so recent to the camp because it's all fresh it's very raw and you did mention it it was um something that you were happy to share but I know it's also tough sometimes to talk about all this stuff as well so you're a legend.

audioHayleyMason11733178002 31:14

to share. Aw, thank you, Jamie. Thank you,

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 31:18

And we managed to do this with some children in the background. I think I muted most of it out, but apologies if there is a few little noises there. I think, this was really some days thriving, others just surviving and camp is a bit of just surviving really. So your child can get the most out of it and it sounds like you did an amazing job.

audioHayleyMason11733178002 31:38

I hope so.

audioReal-I-DealHealt21733178002 31:39

I think so. Give yourself a pat on the back.

audioHayleyMason11733178002 31:41

Architects, thank you very much.

31:43

We hope you enjoyed the episode. Thanks for listening. Please rate us on your favorite podcast app to help us reach more people and make them feel less alone. Remember, some days thriving, others just surviving. If you'd like to make contact with Jamie as a diabetes educator, look up the website, www.real-i-dealhealth.com. I can also be found on Instagram and Facebook under Jamie Panora Real Ideal Health.