Across the Counter
This podcast is a passion project where we interview a diverse blend of musicians, authors, podcasters, pastors, and thinkers about semi religious topics.
Instead of listening to respond or debate, we listen to understand through finding common ground and hearing our guests’ stories.
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Across the Counter
Off the Cuff | Victorious Worms | Episode 49
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Join us for an Off the Cuff episode with some of our friends (Kevin, Jed, and Justin) in Greenville, SC!
In this OTC Episode:
• Have you ever felt the palpable presence of peace in a place where tension is expected to reign? A story of a pilgrimage to Israel was one such paradox, offering both a sanctuary from the world's chaos and a profound spiritual encounter.
• As Kevin, Jed, and Justin join us, we unpack the layers of divine purpose discovered in the Holy Land, contrasting the unity experienced there with the discord often felt back in America. Hearts and minds expanded with each step, and it is exciting to share how the land's scriptural and prophetic significance reshaped their faith.
• Our conversation takes an intimate turn as we learn about a momentous gathering in Jerusalem, a modern-day echo of the Last Supper's call to love and reconciliation. This was no ordinary meeting; it was a melting pot of leaders from different nations and faiths, all transformed by the radical love of Jesus. The stories shared from this encounter shine a light on the unifying love that can heal the deepest of societal divides. And as we weave through the narrative threads from John, Ephesians, and Revelation, you'll see how love is not just a command but the very fabric of our existence.
• To bring our reflections full circle, we look at how divine encounters spur us towards active service and love in our communities. A poignant moment in Fredericksburg, Virginia, serves as a testament to the power of prayer and the swift hand of change, reminding us that our identities are founded in something far greater than ourselves.
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Exploring Faith and Relationship With Jesus
Speaker 1All right. I'm gonna do my little intro. All right, pull up a chair across the counter. Your one-stop shop for a variety of perspectives around Jesus and Christianity. I'm Grant, this is Kevin over here, this is Justin and this is Jed Rabine and this is an Off the Cuff boys, the cuff boys. So what's been going on? We were talking kind of about our stories, how you thought israel was safer than america, which which blew my mind first of all. So I I gotta, I don't know what's going on with that.
Speaker 2So you want to start at israel?
Speaker 1I, I do yeah just jumping right in just jump like straight towards it hit it.
Speaker 2Hit it while it's hot.
Speaker 1Oh frick.
Speaker 2Yeah, well, we were just in Israel. Kevin and I were in Israel in February. We were hanging out with some Jewish believers, met some Arab believers too in the country, and obviously it's a really difficult time right now for that. You know that the Israeli people, the Jewish people in general, but the reason why we kind of felt like it was it's actually a safer place is number one from a scriptural perspective.
Speaker 2We kind of know where God's plan has been revealed, where he's going to be taking the Jewish people, and we know where the story ends. You know Jesus comes back. He doesn't come back to Chicago, he doesn't come back to Vancouver. He actually comes down and puts his feet down on the Mount of Olives, according to the prophet Zechariah, and the angels in the book of Acts are looking. You know, the disciples are looking around like Jesus just ascends from the Mount of Olives and they're like, you know, blown away that he's kind of ascending and the angels are like why are you so amazed? He's going to come back, just like you saw him go up. He's going to come back.
Speaker 2So this is in Acts, chapter one, and so you know when you think about the prophetic destiny of that land and that people. We know where that's going to go scripturally. So we know that there's a plan and a purpose of God versus other nations. You know, like America, we just not sure, from an eschatological perspective, what's going to be taking place in the days ahead. So there was just a, and I would just say this for us personally I don't know how you feel, kevin, and I'll turn the mic over to you, but we felt like God had ordained for us to be there in that time to just worship him in the land and to connect with the body of Messiah and spend some time with some brothers and sisters, and so, when you're sent, there's a peace that is like this is where God wants us for this time. It doesn't really matter what the temporal pressures are around us. Um, we knew that God had called us to be there for that that season. So what do you think, bro?
Speaker 3Yeah, I think, to use a cliche, the safest place to be is where he wants you to be. And he we met on New Year's and I felt like he invited me to go and I was like sounds like fun and I went and it did feel safer than America. Like there's a lot of uncertainty here, there's a lot of disunity, especially in the south. There's a lot of people toting guns and there they know who the enemy is and they're unified, they're working together, they're they have a big problem. There's people trying to come across the border and they've come together and they're helping each other. And that I think, even though there was a war going on and it was dangerous, it felt different on the inside because there was collaboration instead of disunity and the food was delicious, but it was. I mean, I think the closest missile that landed inside the border was like 50 miles away and they missed.
Speaker 1We had a good time. Dude, that is closer than any missile has ever been to me. That's all I'm saying, justin. What you got, man, you know them through house, church and through stuff like that, I believe. So what do you have to say about, as far as, like, israel and all that jazz, the prophetic destiny of Israel?
Speaker 4Nothing I'd like to learn from Jed Robine and Kevin, but I met Kevin in. Was it Italy? No, we reconnected in Italy, but for the past couple of years, we've been having conversations about Jesus and life, and more recently, I don't know if you would agree, but they've become more about the overall purpose, right here, right now, as a son of God, full of the Holy Spirit, embracing everything the Father has for me. Today, what am I doing? What is worth doing? I want to do what I see my Father doing. I want to see what he's seeing, hear what he's hearing.
Speaker 4This is the message Jed and his wife Nicole brought to us when they first came into town heavy duty, vertical bonding, being in the presence of the Lord, full of the Holy Spirit, with your brothers and sisters, just gazing upon the beauty of the Lord, listening, not having a bunch of petitions and things to say though there are times for that as well but a specific time where the brothers and sisters are unified and anything can happen. The room can shake, the earth can shake, gifts are given to one another, prophecies, tongues, interpretations, everything, and so I think Kevin and I have been discussing that a lot. Jed and Nicole have been working with our spiritual family on just getting rid of the things that are not of the Lord or from Him and clearing the floor for experiencing His presence and receiving everything that he has for us today. I know that's vague talk, but I think that's kind of what we've been discussing and I think that's pretty easy to expound on from Jed and Kevin. So I'll speak more vague and then you guys can take it away.
Speaker 3When I met Justin, reconnected with Justin two years ago, I was heavy deconstructing, kind of like deciding whether I wanted to hang on to Jesus by the thread that was still left, and I think Justin saw like a purity of heart.
Speaker 3He saw that I, like, I truly wanted to, to know the truth, that I wasn't like rejecting it, but I didn't know which way to go. And I met Jed five months ago, on New Year's Eve, and I felt like the things that we were talking about on New Year's Eve. It was just a 30 minute conversation. He gave me permission to deconstruct in front of him where most of the time when you bring that up inside of the church your doubts, your fears, where you're at with Jesus if you're not happy with him, you kind of get hushed and fed 10 Bible verses and shunned. And Jed prepared the way for me. He invited me in. He, I think, started the conversation. I heard peculiar things come out of an older man's mouth that you don't normally hear from someone who does missionary things and I had to hear more. You can retort that if you'd like.
Speaker 2Jed I'm good and old. Apparently, it is what it is, yeah just wear it.
Speaker 3He's our local Gandalf. But what happened in Israel? It was just like a quiet invitation. I felt like the Lord presented the option for me to go. I've been curious about it for years, being of Hebrew descent, and someone who I wanted to learn from invited me to go. I'm like, well, let's see what this is all about. And the invitation was come, sit in Arnie's living room for 10 days and listen to the Lord. And this is like for years. This is what I've been dying to do.
Speaker 3I was involved in missions in YWAM. I've been involved in church my whole life and I have sat in the room many times, grieved by my heart. Grieved because I feel like we're saying Jesus and we're saying things that are true, and we're reading the Bible and doing all these good things, but I feel like he's not in the room. I feel like he doesn't care about what we're saying and we're just creating a religion or participating in a religion. And I didn't know exactly what to expect in Arnie's living room. But I'm finding that is how you should follow God you shouldn't know what to expect when you show up and you should come to listen, because you are not smarter than him. I'm not. You can be, but not me.
Speaker 2Well, when you think about the, you know the pursuit of Christianity it's not a religion. Jesus came to open the way for a relationship to be restored with the Father, and it's through faith in Him. And so, when you boil Christianity down, it's the pursuit of Jesus and His presence, which you look at like John 15 when he talks about abiding in the vine, remain in me, that my word would remain in you, my love would remain in you. And so he says apart from me, you can do nothing.
Speaker 1Dude. He is making eye contact with me.
Speaker 2And I cannot hang.
Speaker 1I'm going to look at you for now on, I'm sorry.
Speaker 4I feel like a dude in like third grade. I'll see myself out. Continue to.
Speaker 3We sound wise, but we're just middle schoolers here.
Speaker 1All right, go ahead.
Speaker 2No, it's, I'm trying.
Speaker 1I needed to focus.
Speaker 2Well, so at the end of the day, you know, to pursue the pursuit in Christianity, the chief pursuit is his presence. And that was true even in Moses' day, where he said you know, we're not going to go unless you go with us, lord. Or in Adam's day he walked, he and Eve walked with God in the cool of the day, with God in the cool of the day. And so why did Jesus go through and submit to the most horrific treatment and physical punishment a man could endure, let alone the anguish of soul of taking on the sins of humanity. Why did he do that? Because God is looking for a dwelling place. He's looking for a. He wants to be with his people. And when you read at the end of the story in the book of Revelation, which Revelation is all about the revelation of Jesus Christ, it's not a revelation of the Antichrist. He has a moment on the stage Jesus. All of history is formed around the birth, the death, the resurrection and the return of this transcendent spiritual leader. But at the end of the story, god is dwelling in the New Jerusalem with humanity. Again, we don't need a sun or a moon or stars anymore. He's our light, he will be our God and we will be his people. That's what God's after, is this place of harmony and relationship, oneness, which you read about in John 17, when Jesus is praying his high priestly prayer oh, this is right before he goes to the cross.
Speaker 2One thing is really on his mind. He keeps repeating it, father that they would be one, as you and I are one, that we would be one together, all being perfected in oneness. And this is his chief desire is that we would be one with him. Which blows my mind, I mean Jesus, john 17,.
Speaker 2Verse 22 actually says that they all who would ever believe in me, that they would know that you, the Father, love them as much as you love me. I mean to think about I don't know if you bros have thought about that, but the Father loves you as much as he loves Jesus. That is a mother load of revelation to kind of marinate in, because everything in our own heart, everything the world has told us, everything that humans have told us, is that we're not worth that kind of love. And yet that's exactly the kind of love that's at the very root system of what we call Christianity. But he's a person You're grafted into the way, the truth and the life, and so we need his presence. That's my point, is that this is an experience of his presence in our life as we walk out, work, family, of his presence in our life as we walk out, work, family, calling, identity.
Speaker 3It's all about his presence and you could go your whole life and not tap into that love, that oneness, totally and, like many people do, like the world shouts at you that you're not worthy, that you're a piece of shit, that you're not good enough, you're not going to make it, you're going to be poor, and his love is like. It's the answer to all of that and once you meet him, it's the key to unlock all of those things. What does the Bible say about that, justin?
Speaker 4I don't know. No, it's important. I think it's beautiful because when Jesus came out of the water, he's being baptized. Comes out of the water. This whole scene is the father stops everything and says this is my beloved Son, with whom I'm well pleased. I mean, that's what's, and it was that event that preceded Jesus picking people he would pour his love out onto. We know them as the disciples, people he would eat with and hang out with, have a good time with and take them along on the journey. He was on when the kingdom was breaking into the setting.
Speaker 4You know Matthew 4, 17,. The message is repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come. And that came after love was poured onto Jesus from his dad. So the identity was there, goes into the wilderness, is comforted by the Holy Spirit through great distress, overcomes the evil. One resists the evil, one demonstrates all that for us. But it was rooted in a place of the father is just madly in love with his son and the son knows that. So I think it's not just a good point, it's absolutely essential to a walk with Jesus is does the Father love me as much as he loves Jesus or not? That's absolutely essential.
Speaker 1Yeah, I'll tell you what John 17 is huge, like the high priestly prayer or whatever, like just it says, like that we all be one as him and the Father are one, so that he like, basically, so that we know that Jesus is the Son of God, right, like we are so perfectly one that you know that it was God who sent Jesus. Yeah, which is crazy to think about. First of all because in the church you know, this is how I interpret, this is now just interpretation the church sees, it says, hey, those people treat each other and us so differently. So just, they're just caring for each other, they're sharing each other's you know resources, they're loving one another and the only way that that's freaking possible is that Jesus is the Son of God. That's right. So that is going to be my segue, because all of y'all are house church fellas. So how are you doing that in your house church Bang?
The Power of Love and Reconciliation
Speaker 2Well before can I just say one thing about what you just said, Absolutely About this love, this oneness, because it goes back to what Jesus John 13 through 17 are all one time period. It's right before he's preparing his disciples, right before he goes to the crucifixion. So it's all that. Last supper, the Passover meal.
Speaker 2He's washing their feet and he's giving him his, really his last kind of commander's intent, so to speak. To put it in military terms his heart for them. They're about to go through some really disorienting, confusing, painful, challenging times. But he says in John 13, 34, 35, he says the world will know you're my disciples by your love and it's you know. So love is the, it's the bullseye, it's the power current of the kingdom, it's God's love being released through us. And there's a intention. He says as you have been loved, now love one another. This command I give you. So what's interesting? Just to circle back to what we're talking about, israel, you know, I know right now there's the, the most challenging geopolitical.
Speaker 2At a human level, things look impossible, but in 2019, I was in Jerusalem with a handful of leaders about 120, 130 of us, from all different nations, and it wasn't a hey, come and listen to my awesome teaching conference. It wasn't a buy my CD or book conference. It was a family meeting with leaders from all over the world and it was really a conversation between. It was the nations coming to bless Israel, but there were Christian, arabs and Jewish believers, because of the love of Jesus Grant. I've seen them cry on each other's neck and embrace because of the love of God, despite seeing things maybe differently from a political perspective.
Speaker 2The love of God bringing human hearts together in reconciliation, that is the stamp of approval on what's the solution to all of the problems of the world. His name is Jesus and that's why he's coming back. This world is becoming more and more hostile to his leadership and his ways, like Psalm 2 talks about. Why do the nations rage and cast off restraint? The Lord says he's anointed his anointed one and installed him on Mount Zion, you know? And so the nations, not just humans, but principalities and powers and dominions and thrones, these are demonic forces that are raging against the leadership of God and leading humanity into rebellion spiritually against his leadership of God, and leading humanity into rebellion spiritually against His leadership. And so this love, this oneness, is the heart of the gospel, this reconciliation.
Speaker 2Every tribe and tongue is going to be around the glassy sea in Revelation 7. There's a place for a remnant from every tribe and every tongue to be united by our shared faith in Christ, and that's the invitation of the gospel. So love ends up being the calling card, the stamp of approval, and I've seen it in Jerusalem. So I don't think there are ethnic divisions that can't be reconciled by that same love. I've seen Christian, arab and Jewish believer reconcile the shed blood of Jesus and love. So I believe there is no ethnic division that it can't conquer. His love will conquer every divide if we put our faith in him.
Speaker 1That's so good, dang it. Oh man, I love that man. So you have seen like an Israeli, arab and Christian all crying on one another's shoulder, yeah.
Speaker 2Jewish believers and Christian Arabs yeah, yes, I've seen them reconciled.
Speaker 1That's beautiful man.
Speaker 2That's beautiful, but that's the love of God. You can't do that apart from His presence. You can't do that without His love first changing you.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's just such a, just a very vivid picture of His love, for sure of just being able to see that of his love, for sure of just being able to see that, just like you saw it vividly, like in that moment where you're just like man. God is good, amen, okay.
Speaker 3Rock and roll, here we go, mic swap. So how do we get there? How do we get the world to love?
Speaker 2each other. It starts with the family of God. It starts with us relating to him. You know, the Bible says we love because he first loved us. So it's the command is as I have loved, you, now love one another. You first have to understand that you are beloved. Like to Justin's point, you can't walk with Jesus without a full understanding of the Father's love for you. So it starts with you actually receiving divine love and grace and forgiveness for your sins. You receive that love. It's transformative, it changes you. As Paul puts it, look, the old is gone and the new has come. The old has disappeared. You're a new creation in Christ because of his love. From that point, as we love one another, there's a.
Speaker 2You know Paul talks about actually Jew and Gentile being reconciled in Ephesians 2 and chapter, in Ephesians, chapter 3. And he says in Ephesians 3, verse 10, he says God's purpose. He. Well, let me say this back up in Ephesians 3, verse 10, he says God's purpose. Well, let me say this back up In Ephesians 2, beginning in verse 11 and following to about verse 17 or 18, paul starts talking about God's purpose between reconciling Jew and Gentile by the blood of Jesus.
Speaker 2He's brought the two groups together to make one new man out of the two groups, and the wall of hostility and enmity has been torn down. And so when you look at what he says in Ephesians 3.10, he says God's purpose in this unity is to declare his manifold wisdom to the heavenly realms, and they will see this when the church is one. So our oneness is first and foremost not about loving one another. There's a vertical declaration to the heavenly realms. Now, who are the heavenly realms? Well, paul talks about them in Ephesians 1 and in Ephesians chapter 6. You don't wrestle against flesh and blood. Primarily, your wrestle is against powers, spiritual powers in the high places, spiritual wickedness, thrones, dominions. So that's why you got to put the armor on. That's what Paul's saying in Ephesians 6.
Speaker 2So this love, this reconciled love, declares God's wisdom. I believe it's like an electromagnetic pulse in the spiritual realm. It disables demonic resistance to the gospel. Our love for one another declares God's wisdom. Something happens in the spirit and the Holy Spirit can come in more power, more grace. The gospel of the kingdom is more effective when love is being displayed and it's a breakthrough when you see people reconciled. There's something that just breaks in the Spirit, like people start to weep, people start to cry.
Speaker 2Yeah, generosity of Spirit, hearts open to one another, there's healing. Love is a game changer and we first receive it from God and then we begin to walk it out together. Then things begin to change and the heart for the lost is God wants the prodigals to come home, but they're coming home to a family. He wants that family to be a functional family, not a dysfunctional family. He wants them to come into a family that's loving one another well, that sees one another, that honors each other.
Speaker 2And that's why Paul goes to great lengths when he's chastising the congregations for breaking faith and having disunity and discord and strife. And he makes such a point maintain that bond of peace. Do everything you can to be at peace with all people. And it's for this reason, when we start to get into bitterness and strife and unforgiveness, we start to lose our power core, our spiritual authority starts to become. There's a ceiling that starts to come in on the impact of what we can have. So I don't know if that's an answer to your question, brother, but that's kind of what comes to mind when you ask the question like what do we do?
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 2We got to understand why this is so strategic and why why we cannot compromise on experiencing the love of God for ourselves and then bringing it into the spiritual families that were, that were connected to yeah, no, I mean, it answers the question as much as one can, but I think it's.
Speaker 3it's like it's Jesus and how does he want to do it? And, like we, we know his way, we know his way is unity, his way is forgiveness, his way is his kingdom come and how does he want to do that? And I think his kingdom will come when we participate with him to bring it and when we go our own way, it's, it's delayed, it's it's for delayed, it's for later, it's still true, it's still the only way to go, but yeah, we don't participate, it doesn't come.
Speaker 4Yes, can I share a personal story so well? Kevin's question was you know, I think I don't want to misquote, but it was how do we get the world to start loving each other, or some iteration of that. I had this story pop into my mind, shout out to Daniel Herman, my cousin. We were on a road trip. I think we were in Kentucky maybe He'll probably correct me through text if he ever listens to this, but we were passing some things out under a bridge. There were a bunch of people under there and we were trying to get rid of the rest of our belongings out to get back in the car and drive to the next town when a man was seemingly belligerent walking across the road and he threw something at us. He was very angry and we didn't know who he was. He wasn't over there with us when we were passing anything out.
Speaker 4And Daniel's immediate reaction to that whatever that was that outburst of hate or frustration or rage he grabbed I forget what it was call it 20 bucks out of a little compartment in the car and sprinted right toward the guy. And I'm thinking what is going to happen here, like what is going on. And he goes up to the guy and says, hey, something of the liking to, I forgive you, of the liking to, I forgive you, I love you. Do you have a need for this money, and immediately?
Speaker 4the man just starts sobbing and asking for forgiveness, starts venting how hard today has been on him. I forget what he was going through at the time I'm sure it's in a journal entry somewhere, but I think so and then we hugged and we prayed over him. We shared. There's freedom in Jesus. He doesn't have to be a slave to the anger and things of that nature. And that story comes to my mind when, if I can take you literally the question was how do we get the world to start loving each other? That's not really the question I have in my head, but I appreciate the question Because I think it starts in the home, I believe. However, I have seen this story I just shared, like.
Living Out the Kingdom of God
Speaker 4I've seen how, you know, a random to us, a random person, can be impacted by it's turning the other cheek, but I think it's that's people don't know what that means. So, like somebody throws something at you and you sprint after them. What does that mean? It means a fight. But when you approach that person and instead of punching them in the face, you give them money and say do you need this? How can I help? And you mean it from your heart. The darkness has no more authority. Everything is stripped away in that moment and the gospel of Jesus Christ is able to pierce right through to the heart of that individual. They don't have to follow it.
Speaker 4And now this is something that Kevin and I have talked about is like when you experience the real thing, you'll never turn away. I don't know if that's true, at least from what I've seen. Yeah, we know it not to be true experientially, but I know what you're saying. You know the God of this world. So, as for the unbelievers Paul says the God of this world, lowercase g, has blinded their eyes from seeing the light of the gospel. And so I think you talked about this, jed, just a moment ago. There is another kingdom at work on the earth right now, and when Jesus is what I've heard.
Speaker 4The phrase Jesus came to usher the kingdom in, again, like all these things don't mean anything without any experience in what they mean. So you know, everyone knows Jesus came to usher the kingdom of heaven in. But when, if the question is immediately asked after that phrase is spoken, okay, great, I received that. How have you lived that out, crickets? And so I think when we say it starts in the home, we're going to, because Jesus loves us. We're going to love our brothers and sisters and beyond we're going to love random strangers who throw things at us out of a fit of rage. There you go.
Speaker 4What does it mean?
Speaker 4Like, how do I do that? And it's all born out of a. The Father truly has lavished his love onto me. We all have a story. Someone said what's your testimony? Hopefully it's not crickets. It's like well, you know, I once was this, now I'm this. It's amazing. God saved me, but then, taking that testimony and it motivating you to then lavish that same love onto everyone around you, it does look like something, and we talked about this, I think, yesterday.
Speaker 4Jed, those who say they live in God must live their lives as Jesus did. That's 1 John, and I think Jed followed my statement yesterday with a question. What does that mean? What does that look like? Well, healing the sick, raising the dead, casting out demons, chasing after the man who throws something at you out of a fit of rage. There's a real context for Jesus's love, and he demonstrated it to us in a beautiful way, not only the cross, because in John I believe 15 or 16, he says he's communicating with his father and it says having loved them to the end.
Speaker 4That was the intro. There there was a mission going on on the earth. I want to lavish all the love the Father has lavished on me onto my brothers truly. It's not this like oh, so that I can twist their arm and get them to do something for me after I leave, it's just I'm going to pour all of this out. I want them to truly see how much I love them, how much my Father loves them. That love does penetrate through the deception of the enemy.
Speaker 4I believe in this war where there's two kingdoms going at it. It's not only a well. I prayed in my closet, though very powerful, and it's not only a well. I prayed in my closet, though very powerful, and it's not only a well. I went out on the street corner and I yelled some scriptures at people. That can happen and that's possible, and I've seen that happen and I've actually done it. It's a full-on collision course with the kingdom of darkness. It's I'm unashamed of the gospel. It's the power of God for salvation, first to the Jew. So I just think that I wanted to share that story. Maybe that got people's juices going like what are your thoughts on? I love the question how do we do it? I think what I would want to know from all of you brothers is how have you done it? Or you know, how has the Father shown you to do it today Would be a good question, I think.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's a great question and, yeah, I'll share a story about that. You know this takes place in 2020. I lived in a town called Fredericksburg, virginia, and so Fredericksburg is literally halfway between Washington DC and Richmond, and so, from a civil war perspective, there's lots of battles that were fought around this part of our country, so there's a lot of blood in the ground. Even before America became America and we were a nation, you know there was a lot of abuse and hardship given to the first nations peoples in Virginia the tribes of the indigenous peoples so there's a lot of racial tensions in the area. So there's a lot of racial tensions in the area. So this is taking place after George Floyd was killed in May, and so what was going on?
Healing Through Intercession and Reconciliation
Speaker 2I was connected with a ministry called Civil Righteousness, under the leadership of a brother named Jonathan Tremaine Thomas, and he was encouraging people because protests were coming all over the country. African-american populations were coming out to vocalize their displeasure on some of the ways that they've been treated. So there's pain in the streets and there happens to be. In Fredericksburg, there was a slave auction block. There was, at the time, three known slave auction blocks that were in a public municipality, still visible in America in three different towns. One of them was in Fredericksburg, and so we were gathering down there to pray, because protests would either start there or they would finish there or they would pass by there, because it's an altar of pain and sorrow and grief. It had been there for over 170 years. So we're there praying for probably I don't know 10 days maybe, and other intercessors had gathered there and I tell you, brothers, this is the truth. I put my hands on that and I just felt the Spirit say it's time for that stone to go. And so I said it to the folks that were praying around me. I feel like I got a word. And they said well, just prophesy it. So I said, lord, you know the right time when this stone needs to go. So go in Jesus' name.
Speaker 2And so one night, a few days later, probably three or four days, we're finishing up a prayer time and I'm playing guitar, we're singing praise in the middle of the street. It's on a busy downtown area, there's restaurants and stuff all around, there's a handful of us there and these two African-American men come up to the slave auction block and they're high and they're swearing, and so we're finishing our worship. That's the scene. They're walking up and they're kicking off and a white man crosses the street from a restaurant and he starts saying to them why are you guys so upset about this slave auction block? Can you help me understand why this is so offensive to you? Which, as you might imagine, that's not actually going over really well, to the point that I see one of the African-American men. They're both about 30. He starts to pull out pepper spray. So I'm actually praying in Jesus name. I'm like Lord, this could kick off To their credit.
Speaker 2They walk away from him and the white guy kind of wanders off and we, my wife and I, go over and start up a conversation with these guys and they say what are you doing here? We're like, well, we're here just praying and their Uber ride long story short, their Uber ride falls through. These two guys are like they don't have a ride, and so we're like, well, we'll give you a ride. Where do you live? And so my wife, my daughter, who's 19, and I get in our car. We give these guys a ride.
Speaker 2They live about 20 minutes away, close to where I live actually. So we're driving back and they start telling us there's four or five testimonies between the two of them of personal racism that they've experienced in America and they're crying and sorry. I get emotional because I encountered God in what I'm about to share with you. They're crying in my car and one of them is sitting in the passenger seat next to me. I'm driving and we're pulling in and they've just shared some pain, some real pain, with us and I just sense the Holy Spirit say I want you to pray and repent for what white people have done.
Speaker 2I didn't personally do any of these things to them, but they've been really hurt. So I just obey and I say to them everything that you guys just shared with us none of that should have ever happened to you. That wasn't God's plan for you. So I start to pray and the man sitting next to me in the passenger seat he goes from gently weeping to. He's now actually moved over and he's hugging me and his head is in my chest and he is sobbing. He's heaving and I realized in that moment see, there's a wound that goes way back in our journeys. He wasn't 30 anymore. To me he felt like he was about 15 years old. I forgot to mention this. These two guys are gay, two gay militant African American men who 30 minutes earlier were ready to, you know, fight. And here's this man weeping into my chest. I'm holding him in my car and I'm crying and I just sense the Holy Spirit say, jed, they need to be heard, they need to be held and they need to be loved.
Speaker 4Praise the Lord.
Speaker 2And that changed me. But here's the thing. That's why I tell you this story the next morning. Well, I'll finish it by saying this they get out of the car and they're like, calling my wife mom, and they're like they're calling my daughter, their sister, and they're just, they were blessed and the presence of God was in my car. We were blessed and the presence of God was in my car we were blessed Changed my orientation towards just having a heart for anyone that God puts in our path. But the next morning we get up in our bed and I'm looking at the news and a little blurb comes across and it says In the cover of night, the Fredericksburg municipality moved the slave auction block. They dug it out.
Speaker 2Shut up and they put it in the museum. And the African-American community had been crying out for that the majority of them to have that slave auction block removed for decades. But that was the morning. These may have been the last two African-Americans that came by that slave auction block and cursed it, wow. And the next morning it's gone. And I wonder, did God do it just for them? These guys have this encounter in my car. They encounter the love of God. The next morning that offensive rock is gone.
Speaker 3The answer is yes.
Speaker 2And I believe that the Lord is saying that there's time. This is an opportunity this offensive thing in our past, african-americans and white Americans we can come together and forgive and relate to one another in the love of God and he will heal. It's the only path for real healing, and the anger that was in these men it wasn't dealt away with by shame or by conflict or by challenge or let me teach you that was lifted by only one thing it was the love of God, and so, anyway, that's one of the things that will always much like in 2019, when I saw Christian, arab and Jewish believer reconciled. There it is in 2020, this story with the slave auction block. I've seen the love of God touch people, and it's not about theology necessarily. I mean that's important.
Speaker 2But to your point, justin, in your story, that wouldn't have happened had you not gone and been willing to go where people were that didn't believe like you. The story that I just told you wouldn't have happened had you not gone and been willing to go where people were that didn't believe like you. The story that I just told you wouldn't have happened had we stayed and prayed in our church basement, in the four walls of a comfortable, air-conditioned church. It only happened because we went out to where we believed the Holy Spirit was calling us to go and intercede for our city and our nation. And I'm not saying that because we're some great big thing, we're just doing what? The little next step that we felt the Holy Spirit tell us to do? We just made ourselves available. It's our five loaves and our two fish, and Jesus takes it, breaks it, blesses it and something supernatural happens, because he takes your little offering and he multiplies it and other people's lives are affected.
Speaker 4You were just available yeah, yep, it's a willingness. I won't change the direction, I'll leave that up to grant, but I do want to say we are getting somewhere, that we'd like the fullness of the question. I think on, I think now on everyone's heart, but I like that. You asked it, kevin, is there is an element of what the question embodies? What is the brotherhood and sisterhood? So in the family, what is the washing of each other's feet? Yes, and that's a real thing. I'm not pivoting, I just want to say like I would love to talk about that at some point. It doesn't have to be next, but I appreciate that story.
Speaker 4That's like encountering I don't like saying the world, that's encountering a stranger. It's rooted in a willingness. Father, I'm here, do you? What do you have for me? I look over, I see a conflict rising. I don't run away Like most of the time that is the reaction I've given is I don't want to deal with that. Right now. I'm going out with my wife. We haven't connected in a while. I just you know, and that's.
Speaker 4I would maybe say that that's most people's natural reactions and so this is a supernatural intervention and the willingness is to be dismissed. The willingness is to at least be acknowledged that there is a requirement of willingness, a humility in spirit, in heart, the breaking of the flesh to say, yes, I'm here with my wife, father, what do you have for us tonight? And I think that's very hard, very difficult place to get to. And it's not just a context of how we interact with strangers. I think it does also carry over into well, actually, it flows out of the family, the spiritual family of God, or the gathering, wherever that is, however often that is, and with whoever that is. If we're saying that this gospel transferred Justin from an addiction to pornography for 12 years, for 12 years belittling everybody, beating people over the head, being condescending. If it transferred narcissism there was a spirit of narcissism that I was submitting to that I let into my life, transferred down through heritage If I'm saying that God has transferred me out of that and into light, it's not only going to impact a random stranger. This is now who I am. It's holistic. My brothers, my sisters in the Lord experience this new Justin. Everything's consistent. Whether I'm here or there, I've been transferred from the domain of darkness into the kingdom of light. So I think it's at least worth mentioning.
Speaker 4We're getting somewhere in this conversation, but it's not the full picture of. I think the question is how do we do this? It's a big question. But it's like how do we do this together? Big question. But it's like how do we do this together? And then us brothers just being honest with each other and sharing personal stories, not so that someone can write them down and say, all right, I go to Fredericksburg. That's not the point. I don't know if you guys would agree.
Speaker 3No, we're getting after the heart, yeah, the heart of it. I the word that keeps coming to my mind with love is that it, it fills you and if you're full, you're willing to be generous. If you're full, you're willing to um, you're willing to wait on the Lord. You're, you're content, you're like, oh, if you're full, you're like, you're almost bored. You're like, what's what's? You're content. You're like, oh, if you're full, you're like, you're almost bored. You're like what's what's? You're looking around, what's next to do? And so I, I, I look at his fullness, like and I, I wish that I could say or practice it all the time that I was always just like, completely content, completely full of his love and able to just share with the people around me, like Daniel running after the guy who threw something at him, like that's being filled up and being willing to share. That's like you guys on the street, you've just finished worshiping, you're full of love and maybe you didn't feel special, but you were full because you saw someone in need and you went to help them. And God, you're available, and God met these guys and I think it's totally possible that he moved the stones Like he.
Speaker 3He writes stories for his individual children that take years to come to fruition. Like I, I recently started working for a guy. It's kind of a dream job. Uh, shout out to matt sane. I I sold him a truck and he offered me a job and my social security number. The last four digits matches phone number and I'm like this is so, this is so. I really don't know what to do with that, but that's just to tie into how he writes stories and how much he loves us. And I had something to say about fullness.
Speaker 4Well, just for those who don't understand why that's a big deal, Kevin doesn't do W2.
Speaker 2I hate having a job and he is now so.
Speaker 4God's writing your story and anyway that might have been where you were going. He worked that whole thing together. I don't know where you're going, but I know what you were saying. I'm good at tangents.
Speaker 2I mean, I like what you're saying. There's God speaking to you through what would seem to be just a coincidence, but it's not. You're looking past the data point of the last four digits of my social match, his cell phone number, yeah, and you're seeing the fingerprints of God.
Speaker 3He's been writing a story for a long time yeah.
Speaker 2So I mean God, all truth, all beauty, all justice, go back to a fountain. Yeah, and he's the fountain of these things that are worth, anything that's worthwhile and good and wholesome. He's the root of those things. So if we can get to the point where we can see something beautiful, like a sunset, and we can be like, wow, that's a beautiful sunset, I'm enjoying the sunset, this is fantastic. If we can look past that and realize thank you, father, for you are the beautiful one and you're kissing me right now with the beauty of this sunset, which points me to the greater revelation of the beauty of Jesus.
Speaker 3It sounds like you're saying we enter in through thankfulness.
Speaker 2Yeah, and realizing that. And faith, yeah, that we have a loving Father who wants to speak to us when we are pursuing him. Ask, seek, knock right and it'll be given. You'll find the door will be opened. And so, as you, by faith, enter into a relationship, you know, his love begins to manifest in some ways and some people will be like, well, kevin, that's just a coincidence, and I've just learned over the years I don't believe in coincidences anymore. I mean, maybe I'm not, I won't say any, but by and large I've learned that the Lord is, he speaks our language, he knows what moves our heart and he wants to engage us at the heart level and bless us. I mean, I don't know if you ever thought about this.
Speaker 2Like Peter denies Jesus. The next time Jesus sees him, jesus blesses his business. Like Peter is like I can't, I'm worthless, I've denied, knowing I've actually uttered, I've accursed, he's actually cursed, he said a vow that he didn't even know Jesus. And so he goes away weeping bitterly and Jesus sees him in the galley, blesses his business and says do you love me more than these things, peter? Do you love me more than these? Two months later, peter's preaching the best sermon really in history Amazing. It's personal, yeah, personal and transformative. The encounters we have with him change us because of how good, how faithful and how beautiful he is.
Speaker 4Thank you for painting this sunrise for me.
Speaker 2Amen.
Speaker 4Isn't that beautiful? Yeah, well, everything flows out of that. Why get up in the morning and read if it's not personal? Yeah, if I'm not just walking. Just another quiet morning walking with my father and my brother, jesus.
Speaker 3No, I mean it has to be. If he loves us as much as he loves Jesus. It's very personal. Yeah, he loves us as much as he loves Jesus. It's very personal, yeah, Like I think. And I think as much as you invite him to, he'll invade your space, and as much as you keep him out, he'll keep distance. But he wants to get so close. He wants to show you how much he knows about you.
Speaker 2And David moved in this realm of understanding God. Is he invented pleasure? Like he has a river of delights and pleasures forevermore at his right hand and his presence is the fullness of joy. And so we, you know, think about this for a second. We understand this on some level because if you, you know, think about your, your loved one, like your spouse and, and you're, you want to delight them, and so you think about an extravagant date of things that you want to give them experiences that you know they love, and you spend the whole day together and you hit the bullseye. They're like feeling so blessed and loved by your gift and your thoughtfulness, and the flowers and the candy and the whatever, the dinner and the dancing and whatever you do. And at the end of the date, you know, she says to you um, thank you so much.
Speaker 2And you, you say it was my duty. No, you say it was my pleasure, it's my pleasure To give you. Pleasure is a pleasure. I'm experiencing pleasure when I give you pleasure. You know, and and shout out to Mike Stevens he's my mentor and he showed me that years ago and it changed my paradigm of this, of God delights in us and we delight in him and there's this experiential interchange. It's not about duty, it's about the fullness of his presence and his joy and experiencing that delight. And once you experience it, there's no going back. You can't unsee what he shows you.
Speaker 4Love that and he just shared that with Mary and I the other night Mike did, yeah, and there's like the other layer was he shared a story with he and Penny where he surprised her with a bunch of stuff and it was in each room was another layer of the surprise. And as she was beaming, he was beaming, yeah, and then, because he was beaming, became the new reason why she was beaming. Yeah, and then, because he was beaming, became the new reason why she was beaming, wow. So she was delighting in the fact that he was delighting in her. Yeah, and that's the same. The father delights in us, we delight in him, and then he delights in the fact that we delight in him.
Speaker 3That's something to watch for, I think in his kingdom.
Speaker 1Delightception. I think I don't even have a mic, but I'm just going to yell it, yell it.
Speaker 3I think when you go his way, you see multiplication, like the story of Mike and Penny. When you're generous you see more generosity and then and then there's like it, just it multiplies and in ways you really don't understand. But his kingdom multiplies.
Speaker 4It's good well, it's no longer this I'm an unworthy servant. You know, everything I have is rags and it's dirty. No longer do I call you servant but, I call you friend because everything the Father has given to me, I've given to you.
Speaker 2I love the story in Matthew 8 of the centurion, the Roman centurion, whose slave has fallen ill and he loves this servant and so he knows Jesus is healing people. So he sends a contingent of people out to meet Jesus. You don't even need to come to my house, lord, all you need to do is release the word. I'm a man under authority. I understand. When I say go, do this or go there, do that, it happens. All you need to do is say the word and my servant will be healed.
Speaker 2What faith, you know? I mean number one, I mean. He's a Gentile, so he understands the Jewish custom that Jesus would be unclean if he comes into his home. So he's. This is a revelation of his humility as a Roman centurion understanding the Jewish custom. So it's respectful. But the faith I mean this is the thing that blows my mind. Can you amaze God? Can you shock your creator? I don't even know how to theologically parse that, because the scripture just says Jesus turned around and was amazed and said to all of his disciples I haven't seen faith like this in all of Israel. So apparently you can amaze. I don't know how. There's better theologians than me, certainly, that maybe have something to say about that? But I'm just like wow, an already really happy, glad God, this interaction somehow sparks his delight. Action somehow sparks his delight. Wow, this guy gets it. This Roman centurion understands a principle of the kingdom Whoa and he uses it as a teaching point to his disciples.
Speaker 4I mean, that's really a remarkable story. We would share in the glory that Jesus shares with the Father and has always shared with Him. And I think there's this to amaze Jesus in that situation Jesus in that situation. How I process that personally is when our heart and Jesus' heart is congruent. We have entered into a pleasureful relationship that has always existed, before the world was even created, and the prayer in John 17 includes that we would share in that glory.
Speaker 4And I grew up my whole life with the concept of glory being this thing that's attributed to God. You attach it to kind of what you believe you want to do. Next you say I'll do it for God's glory. It has no meaning at all other than it's a way to give credit. So even if I am doing something and I haven't even committed it to the Lord in my heart, so long as I attach the phrase you know, for the Lord's glory, I do this, all the glory goes up. Then I've checked that box and now that action that I did in vain now is rooted in something that gives credit and glory to the Father.
Speaker 4I think my heart has transformed over the years to like Paul, like looked at the people who came to the Lord as a result of his willingness, his faith, his pursuit, and he says they are my joy and glory and we are Jesus's and the Father's glory. There's something he's doing here, on this unfinished dude. He's making something beautiful that we would all share. We're co-heirs to the kingdom, we have the mind of Christ, we're seated in the heavenly places Like these are not things that I've written down, that I have made up. I didn't initiate this, I didn't go to the cross for the sins of the world, but we've been invited into this beautiful relationship that had always existed and, out of a full, completely content place, the Lord had this desire to invite more beings into it with him.
Speaker 2Yeah, Well, this is what Paul's laboring so hard in the letter of Ephesians. He's like that you would understand the glorious inheritance of the saints, Like that. There it is again glory, the glorious inheritance. It's not your righteousness, You're grafted into his righteousness. He's imputing his rewards to you. He's not just taking the stripes, the punishment that was coming for you, but he's actually inviting you into his reward. And when I speak on the gospel or teach on it, I say look, you got straight Fs. I got straight Fs. I got straight Fs and God erased my name off my straight F report card and wrote the name Jesus. And Jesus got all of the punishment for that. But Jesus also erased his name off the straight A report card that he earned and he wrote the name Jed. And I get the candy and the rewards that were due him. That's the double cure of the gospel. It's amazing. That's why it's such good news. Right, Grant? Yeah, dude, You're going to get in here. Come on, man.
Speaker 1Dude.
Speaker 1I talk enough on this thing, man, I enjoy it Like literally my favorite thing about this podcast is not to hear my own voice, it's to hear you guys go. So like me not having a mic is like almost my favorite thing in the world, just to like let you guys do it. Dang it, brother. No, I genuinely like there's just so much to unpack there. It's ridiculous, but it's just so also incredibly simple and beautiful of just like.
Speaker 1I mean, I just got off with this guy, talian Chavijan. He's Billy Graham's grandson. He's, like you know, super esteemed pastor. Then he like fell hard, like cheated on his wife, very raw, real, wrote a book about it and I just learned, like, how much grace God actually has to offer and how much we absolutely need. It is insane. Like the more I think about it, the more I'm because it is the worm thing, right, it's not like, oh, I'm a little, you know, worm. It's like, yeah, I'm a worm, and then it's like victorious worm. You know what I mean. If you want to do the worm reference, you know Like it's insane how much grace he provides. It is ridiculous. Like you know, you are the worst sinner that you know if you know yourself well enough. Like you are the worst sinner that you know. If you know yourself well enough like you're the worst sinner that you know, so, like Jesus forgave us of that, what on earth is that? You know what I mean.
Speaker 2I guess it's in heaven. I guess it's in heaven.
Speaker 1I don't know, I've just been kind of letting you guys go and just thinking about grace man and just like shedding a tear every now and again and you guys have your beautiful stories and I'm just like just sitting here just like man, god is good and he's just like got enough grace for Grant Lockridge, which is should be all the you know should be a ridiculous amount of grace.
Speaker 4And it is.
Speaker 1But also for y'all. I don't know you very well, but like you're, guaranteed a sinner, yep. Tons of grace. Tons of grace for Justin. Tons of grace for Kevin. Yeah, that dude's a sinner, kevin's deconstructing he needs tons of grace Tons and tons no, I'm just kidding Tons and tons.
Speaker 3Just he needs tons of grace, tons and tons, tons and tons.
Foundation of Identity
Speaker 1Just so much grace. No, I'm just kidding, but like I don't know, man, that's just Well, think about this.
Speaker 2I mean what Justin said. Like before the foundations of the world. Like he's created good deeds for us to walk in. Like the deepest truth about your identity is not your sin life. Yeah, that you existed in God.
Speaker 2He's Psalm 139. His thoughts towards you, grant, are greater than the grains of sand on the seashore, and every day has been written in a book before one day came to pass. And so the reality of his love. Like he's got to deal with the problem called sin, but he did it. He's not sitting somewhere with his arms folded across his chest Like, well, I love you, I died for you, jed, you moron, and I'm really disappointed in how many sins you committed. He, he went through all of that for the joy set before him, which was the restored relationship before him, which was the restored relationship. And he's bringing many sons to glory. That's you know. He's the firstborn of creation, he's the firstborn of the resurrection, he's the first fruits and he's bringing many sons to the father to be restored and reconciled. So the deepest things about our identity is not our shame. Somebody needs to hear that the deepest thing about you isn't your shame. What the thing that you're most ashamed of. That's not your identity.
Speaker 1True man.
Speaker 4I think it's so beautiful that the majority of our talking has been this, because it's so much easier to then answer the questions that come of. Like. I get these questions from brothers and sisters. I had these questions a lot. Well, how do I just focus my life on X? How do I just stop sinning in this way? How do I just connect with the body deeper? How do I just, how do I just, how do I? And, and it goes on, and on, and on and on.
Speaker 4It's like if, and a lot of people probably are listening to this and like, yeah, that lovey, dovey, frou-frou talk, you know, like I got a homosexual crying in my chest like, but there's, there was. You know, Jed should have rebuked and he should have told the truth to that person, and blah, blah, blah. And it's like we got to start where the story starts, yeah, and move into what. The source, that Jesus, as fully man overcame the evil one. The source is clearly laid out the father lavished love on his son, overflowing, billowing out of him. Anoints him with the Holy Spirit. He's going into this journey where he's bringing brothers close to his chest around the table, bringing brothers close to his chest around the table, getting the hell out of here, bringing the kingdom in.
Speaker 4It's all rooted in love and then, with that as the foundation, confronting these other things. It makes sense, it's appropriate. It's not complicated. There is no questioning of well, how do I and how do I, and how do I and how do I? It's I am loved by the Father. As much as he loves Jesus, he loves me.
Speaker 4Temptation comes Well, it says. Jesus was tempted in every way, yet without sin, he was the forerunner of this faith and he's been through it all so that he can turn around and help us in our time of need. There's so many other questions that can find true answers in a true foundation of the Father's love to us individually, a personal relationship. How does a house church function? How does a whatever traditional church? How is it supposed to function? How are we supposed to wash each other's feet? How are we supposed to do this together? Those are all real questions that maybe can be a session for another day, but I think this is a very, very important place to start, because I've answered all those questions first without the foundation, and it crumbles every single time.
Speaker 2Yeah, so good, justin. And Jesus embodies love, even when he's rebuking Pharisees or when he's sitting with the woman at the well. The response, you see, is evident of whether someone's encountering the love of God. She goes and evangelizes the whole village. He doesn't actually rebuke her, he just states a fact you have five husbands and the guy you're living with now is not your husband. It's a word of knowledge. But he doesn't actually rebuke her. He didn't need to. She knew that. He saw her.
Speaker 2This is the prophet who's told me everything I've ever done is what she says. She felt known, she felt seen, and it's a cross-cultural exchange. She's a Samaritan, you know, and it's a cross-cultural exchange. Like she's a samaritan jews don't talk to samaritans. That's what the context of that encounter. She's like you don't you? Jews don't talk to us samaritans. Like we're beneath you, like what? So he's? He's busting paradigms because he loves her. He moved at the impulse of love, even though there was a statement of some sinful acts that she's engaged in. The fruit of that wasn't shame. Her heart burned for him. I got to go tell other people about this prophet who's telling me everything I've ever done and he lingers. The scriptures say he lingers there a few days later to teach. I mean, what a story in the scriptures, john chapter 4. But loves the foundation.
Speaker 1Yeah, dude, this has been a nice day for me. I don't know, I was just. I got a haircut. Looks good. I was having a bad time with Kevin over here yesterday because he sent me a cryptic text and I thought he left the faith for a second it is what it is, and I got so pissed that I almost threw my phone out the window and deleted the entire podcast.
Speaker 1No joke. I was like is this thing causing people to stumble Because if so, I will get rid? No joke, I was like is this thing causing people to stumble Cause if so, I will get rid of it? It was that sort of situation. But all that being said, dude, this has been just a day to just reflect on grace and love God. Like that's a freaking good day, dude. That's all. Like I don't have anything profound. It's a freaking good day, dude. That's all I'm going to say. Like I don't have anything profound. It's just like, man, that's a freaking great day, that is all there is, that's it.
Speaker 1Yeah, I'm having a great time. Hallelujah. Just in that specific little vein of thought. You guys can say smarter stuff if you want, but like frick me.
Speaker 4That's so good. Let me quote a man named Iron Mike. I have to do it, can you do, john Calvin? Next, true love is I accept you right where you are and demand that you become who God made you to be. It's both. I accept you right here, right now. Come hug my chest and cry and I demand that you become who God made you to be.
Speaker 2That's all that's love, well, I mean, I don't know, iron Mike, but I would just say maybe I would quibble a bit with the word demand. Yeah, that's what I was going to say, dude, because Jesus never he would, even with the rich young ruler. This is what you lack. He loved him, says him, loved him. And the man went away sorrowful. Jesus didn't demand that he go sell everything, he just said this is what you lack. But the agency remained in the court of the rich young ruler. He had a choice to make.
Speaker 2So I accept you where you're at. I bring you to a place of crossroads where you have a choice, and my heart for you is that you would make. It's like the cry of God in the Old Testament is the oh that you would choose life. This is a path of life and this is a path of death, and oh that you would choose life. So love is this.
Speaker 2I'm cheering for you to make the choice that only you can make. Only you can give your heart to the Father. That's your offering, because you've been bought with a price. Your response to his mercy is to present your body as a living sacrifice and I pray that you make that choice. But I can't demand that you make that choice, because that's all on you. But I get the point of like I'm not letting you go. So, but I get the point of like I'm not letting you go. I like the ferocity of like I'm going to cling to you and I'm here in your space, you know, present with you as you go through the struggle of becoming all that God wants you to be yes and amen.
Speaker 3Well, I think this makes a lot more sense if you've met Iron.
Speaker 4Mike, we'll have him on I don't even know who that is.
Speaker 2Well, he can rebuke me next time.
Speaker 3He's a hoss in Florida up here.
Speaker 2By the way, I'm not rebuking Iron Mike, just to be clear. You wouldn't want to. He's a hoss in Florida.
Speaker 4Are you trying to start a fight? Do you know that guy, Damien Girk?
Speaker 1No, he is a house church. Freaking crazy man. Freaking crazy man. It's so good you don't even understand. Dude, that's your house church guy. Have you read the book in the way, damian girk? Nope, nope, this is like forget the podcast. Like just jump in that you guys are doing, if you guys are doing freaking house church, that's insane okay, good tip that's all I'm saying. And he's like got like hundreds of them. It's just like networked them all together somehow. I don't know how. It's insane.
Speaker 4Holy Spirit, hopefully.
Speaker 1Something like that. It's like loving others, man, I can't even. I just love it, dude. I don't know, I'm just having a good day, that's all it is. That's all it is. Man here, kevin. Final thoughts boys.
Speaker 3So I'll just leave with a challenge. I feel like we've talked about god's love and I would just say, if you haven't experienced it, if you haven't met peace, love, contentment, if you haven't tasted and seen that he is, I would not call him out on it, but I would say, like, like challenge him, like put the fleece out, ask him to meet you because he will, but pray as though having already received, and and believe that when he shows you, this is him and you guys will be groovy.
Speaker 1Justin, final thoughts, baby.
Speaker 4Yeah, I mean, I just invite the Holy Spirit right now to just fill us up and anyone who is hearing this. I invite you in to this space. I invite you to to this space. I invite you to experience this love. Just do it at work. Lord, I trust you. I'm so thankful for the fact that you have set me free. You have transferred me out of so many things that had me pinned down and had me in utter darkness. So, yeah, I speak a blessing over all who are hearing this. I renounce all the works of the devil in Jesus' name and I just ask you, lord, to break through the darkness in Jesus' name. Ask you, lord, to break through the darkness in Jesus' name.
Speaker 4Yeah, and I think that what is hitting me is five years ago, maybe even three years ago, I wouldn't have talked about the love of God for an hour and a half. I would have tried to list off some bullet points for people to follow and tried to convince my brothers to start having these things as their practices. If the love of God was brought up as like a conversation, that's where I'd want to go, and I think what has happened in my life is I've been touched in ways that didn't make sense by the Father, and when that happens, it's like it's like your rubric fails every time. So you hold it up to what you're experiencing and you're like this doesn't make any sense, and so I think my takeaway and that's not what you're asking for just final thoughts.
Speaker 1No, that is what I'm asking.
Speaker 2This is off the cuff it's off the cuff it doesn't matter.
Speaker 4My takeaway is I think I'm seeing there's been growth in my own life. I didn't realize until just now.
Speaker 2Praise God, I'm thankful yeah amen, that's funny. Beautiful.
Speaker 1All right, brother, brother Jed. Final thoughts.
Speaker 2I just brother, brother Jed, final thoughts. I just will speak to the audience. Two questions that I think if I had a mic to speak to the whole world, I would say. Question number one who do you say Jesus is? Is he a madman, is he just a good teacher, or is he the son of the living God? And if you search that out, how you answer that question will shape everything about your reality. And so I would encourage anyone listening if you haven't examined the claims of Christ and looked into what this, our calendar, is set to this man's life. He was a 33-year-old man. There were other martyrs, there's been other prophets, there's been other miracle workers in history, but this man, who wasn't a general of a physical army, he wasn't a head of state, he didn't have a huge amount of money, he changed the world by his life and the purity of his teaching is recognized in virtually most religions, would recognize the purity of his teaching and his ways. And so who do you say Jesus is? I think is a foundational question that the world has to answer. All of us do.
Speaker 2And the other one is where do you go for truth? Everybody's following someone. There's very few original thoughts that are occurring. There are lots of philosophies out there we can follow. There's lots of religions, there's lots of pursuits. What is truth and, more specifically, who is the truth? And we're all following after some pattern.
Speaker 2And I've studied the Bible. I believe the Bible is the word of God. It's been historically proven, archaeologically proven, prophetically proven. There's 1800 and counting direct prophetic fulfillments in this book and in the day and age we need it the most is the day and age when the culture is saying we need to cancel God because he's a hater and where we go for truth ends up becoming such a key life-shaping decision. We're going to listen to the news. Are we going to get our truth from social media a Facebook post? Are we going to listen to the news? Are we going to get our truth from social media a Facebook post? Are we going to listen to our own understanding, our own reason? And I would just encourage people to explore and read God's Word, turn down the other voices and ask the Holy Spirit to speak to you when you read His Word, and I believe God wants to meet us all there.
Speaker 4Amen.
Speaker 2Stop it. No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1That's so good, man, I love it, oh yeah. So my final thought God is good, god is love and he has a ridiculous amount of grace. It is ridiculous, and that's that.
Speaker 2Truth bombs, amen. Truth bombs with Grant. Is that the name of your podcast, truth bombs with Grant?
Speaker 1It's called the Jed podcast because Jed is the smartest man that's ever existed, probably Other than Jesus.
Speaker 2You know, Jed will get you, I'm jumping off your podcast thanks for listening to the across the counter podcast.
Speaker 1If you enjoyed the show, please rate us five stars, wherever you got this podcast. Thanks, y'all.