Across the Counter
This podcast is a passion project where we interview a diverse blend of musicians, authors, podcasters, pastors, and thinkers about semi religious topics.
Instead of listening to respond or debate, we listen to understand through finding common ground and hearing our guests’ stories.
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Across the Counter
Reintroducing the Real Jesus | Shane Pruitt | Episode 51
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Join us as we sit Across the Counter from Author, Speaker, and National Next Gen Director for NAMB Shane Pruitt.
In this ATC Episode:
• What does it mean to reintroduce the real Jesus to a generation navigating a whirlwind of cultural shifts? Join us as we sit down with Shane Pruitt, the National Next Gen Director for NAMM, who shares his impactful journey of writing "Revival Generation," a Bible study resonating deeply within student and college ministries across the nation. Shane opens up about his family's heart-wrenching loss of their 10-year-old son, Titus, and how they're finding strength and grace through their faith. His raw honesty and profound insights offer a heartfelt look into spiritual resilience and the healing power of faith.
• Our conversation with Shane delves into the evolving perceptions of Jesus and the Bible among today’s youth. It's fascinating to hear how a consistent message over two decades suddenly feels more radical to this generation. We explore the societal trend of embracing Jesus but sidelining the Bible, and the dangers of crafting a culturally influenced image of Jesus.
• Shane emphasizes the necessity for churches to reengage in critical cultural conversations with scriptural truth, especially on topics like sexuality and gender, to present an unfiltered, authentic Jesus to the world.
• Shane highlights the need to balance truth with love, ensuring a compassionate yet firm approach to biblical teachings. We also touch upon the delicate dance between understanding and living out God's Word through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. This episode is a call to embrace humility, seek truth together, and foster unity within our diverse faith communities, making it a must-listen for anyone invested in the spiritual growth of the next generation.
Connect with Shane:
Instagram: @shane_pruitt78
Website: https://shanepruitt.net
Beliefs espoused by the guests of ATC are not necessarily the beliefs and convictions of ATC.
That said the intent of our podcast is to listen, remain curious and never fear failure in the discovery life giving truth. Many people we ardently disagree with have been our greatest teachers.
Youth and Church
Speaker 1Pull up a chair across the counter. Your one-stop shop for a variety of perspectives around Jesus and Christianity. I'm Grant Lockridge and I'm here with Shane Pruitt. Shane is the National Next Gen Director for NAMM. And Shane, what you been learning recently, where you been, what you been up to.
Speaker 2Yeah well, grant. First of all, man, it's a joy to be back on. Man, thanks for having me. You said, man, this is my second time back on, so I'm glad that, man, you enjoyed the conversation enough to invite me back or you felt sorry for me. You know you're like man, that first conversation bomb, so I'm gonna give you another shot. Gotta give him a second chance.
Speaker 2Yeah, thanks for having me back on. And yeah, man, just some things. I've been excited about man Gosh a lot. I think God's up to some cool stuff.
Speaker 2You know I wrote a Bible study with Lifeway called Revival Generation. Just been blown away by the response to that, how God used that, moved through that, through college ministries and student ministries across the nation. So man just been really intrigued by man just awakening just more than anything, chasing after the Lord, being serious about the calling on our life to know Him, to make Him known. And it's been a journey of learning man, what real spiritual warfare is. You know, I would say it's a journey, learning that of course warfare means war, so it's not always easy, but at least like learning, knowing God's with us, he's victorious, we're victorious in him.
Speaker 2And then man just being honest and transparent, my wife and I we're still in our kiddos, are still in a journey of grieving. You know, last summer our son, our 10 year oldold son, titus, went to be with the Lord. It hasn't been a full year yet, so we're still in a season of firsts First Christmas without him, first Easter without him, first Mother's Day Father's Day is coming around the corner at the time of this recording so that first man still learning a lot of firsts of what our new normal looks like without our son Titus.
Speaker 1Yeah, but that seems super hard, man. Glad that you know you're getting through that and actually processing it is super huge and not just being like, ah, you know, nothing happened, Everything's fine kind of thing. I love the honesty of you know, not painting on a smile and being like, yeah, everything's fine. So I appreciate you being vulnerable with us. For sure, man, for sure, and yeah, what have you? So you're a speaker, you speak all throughout, you know everything. What kind of the topics? You said obviously it's young adults, but what are some of the topics you've been hitting up recently?
Speaker 2Yeah, man, you know, kind of the crowds I've been in so far this year is, you know, still a lot of young people, so teenagers. Obviously I'm kind of a foot in both worlds youth ministry and collegiate ministry, young adult ministry so I've been doing a lot with students and getting to preach God's word to them, but also college students and young adults. So that's kind of been this man, just awesome group of people and representation of the church I've gotten to spend time with. But also, man, been with a lot of leaders, whether that's lead pastors or ministry leaders or collegiate leaders or youth leaders. A lot of equipping of leaders and man.
Speaker 2I know social media seems negative a lot of times but man, I think God's up to something good. I try not to throw around the words awakening or revival or movement of God too loosely. All I know is God's up to something. I don't know what to call it. Besides, god's moving and I just want to be a part of it and I definitely don't want to get in the way of it.
Speaker 2I think, as culture continues to shift, I think young people are. It's actually making young people more intrigued of the church and definitely more intrigued of truth. I feel like young people are on a truth journey, because what I've seen in a lot of young people, especially teenagers and young adults, is they don't really trust cultural narratives Grant. So in a weird way, I feel like the more that culture says hey, stay away from Jesus Jesus bad, stay away from the church Church bad, stay away from the Bible Bible bad and you got a whole generation that doesn't trust cultural narratives. So the more that is the cultural narrative stay away from Jesus, the Bible and the church it's almost more intriguing to young people and makes them more curious going. Hmm, maybe I should check that out. You know what I mean. What are they trying to keep me from? So I feel like me personally, what I've seen, I know quote unquote the experts have statistics and data that says otherwise. So maybe you could just say it's your personal experience.
Speaker 2But in my personal experience I'm seeing a lot of people that are very open to the gospel. They're very intrigued by spiritual things. They're definitely searching. They're searching for hope and answers and truth and I believe, as the church, we have the answer His name's Jesus. I believe we have hope. His name's Jesus. I believe we have truth. His name's Jesus.
Speaker 2And so I think if the church would just stay, you know, focused on the gospel and Jesus, and we keep the main thing, the main thing, not get distracted by all the things around us, and we get to slide in those conversations and say, hey, the hope, you're looking for the truth, you're looking for the answers you're looking for, you're actually looking for someone. Let me tell you about who that someone is, and I found, if we stick to that man, I feel young people are responding in a major way, and I think leaders are very intrigued about reaching the next generation. I think they look at college campuses and maybe you know schools and they're very concerned about the next generation. And so I've been really encouraging adults to go hey, instead of complaining about a generation, start praying for a generation. Instead of criticizing a generation, share the gospel with the generation. Instead of belittling a generation, build a relationship with the generation, and I feel like there's a lot of adults that are very interested in that.
Speaker 1So I think it's exciting man, I'm pumped, I'm excited, I'm an optimist, I believe God's up to something good and I know for sure God's on his throne. So we just ton of high schoolers or whatever, but I do know that a lot of them actively like leave the church, but they're still craving that truth of the gospel, absolutely. You know they're trying to find it and that's part of the reason why I feel like social media is absolutely blown up with like gospel messages. Whether or not you know they're completely you know good or not is a different question, but at least the gospel is kind of getting out there and stuff and they're all just like hungry for that, I think, and that's really, really cool, that's a cool place to be. So I definitely agree with you on that one. Yeah, that's really really cool, that's a cool place to be. So I definitely agree on that one?
Speaker 2Yeah, no doubt, grant. You know what's interesting you bring up. Social media is like man, I get a lot of comments from teenagers and young adults. They go hey, I follow you on social media and they'll say things like this like you expect adults to say this and you really expect older adults, but it's more young people going hey, thank you for your boldness, thank you for standing on truth, thank you for not wavering to cultural pressures. And this is coming from young people that almost there.
Speaker 2I think there's a group of young people that are looking for, like, even Christian leaders, to take a bold stand. Now, I don't mean be overbearing even Christian leaders to take a bold stand. Now, I don't mean be overbearing, I don't mean be a jerk, but to actually take a bold stand. Because I think young people are watching and I think they're even weary of some of our quote-unquote Christian leaders who have begun to waffle on some things. They've become to get squishy on some certain things or they're so vague you don't really know what they believe on certain things. So I think when there's men and women who love Jesus and they're taking a bold stand in a kind way but still very direct and a confident way. I think that's also very intriguing to people, and so, man, I probably get that comment more than anything where people will go.
Reintroducing the Real Jesus
Speaker 2Hey, shane, I appreciate your boldness on social media, I appreciate your conviction and that's coming from young people. But what's interesting, grant, is like I've been doing ministry for 20 years. I don't feel like I'm saying anything different than I've said the last 20 years. So I feel like culture has definitely shifted, but I haven't. So it seems more bold. It seems more radical, but I haven't. So it seems more bold. It seems more radical, but I haven't been saying anything different recently than I've said the last 20 years. I think there's just a group of young people that are searching for that, and they're not finding a lot of Christian leaders that are doing that.
Speaker 1So you hold that. You would be like, hey, this is you know. Somebody would comment on and be like, hey, this is being bold in today's day and age.
Speaker 2Yeah, I think, being very clear that the Bible is authoritative. I think there has been a shift. In fact, man, I'm really excited about a project that will come out next year in partnership with my good friends at Lifeway another Bible study, and really the Bible study is just on who Jesus of the Bible is versus who culture says that Jesus is. Because here is the shift I think that's taken place with Young People, grant, is that there was a day, say 15 years ago, where in culture people would say this hey, you can talk about God, because most people believe in God, just don't talk about Jesus, because that's what weirds everybody out, because then people are going to go oh, they're a Jesus freak. You know, they're odd for God, they're all in, they're really taking it too seriously. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, so you can do. You can talk about God, just don't talk about Jesus. But what's interesting, grant, is I feel like culture has actually shifted in the recent years to really you can talk about Jesus, you just can't talk about the Bible, because most people don't have a problem with Jesus. They have a problem with the Bible, with Jesus. They have a problem with the Bible. But here's the reason why is that often in culture, when people are talking about Jesus, they're talking about a Jesus often shaped by their own opinions or their own preferences or their own tolerances, and they're not talking about the Jesus of the word of God. So here is the shift is often when you're talking to people and you go, hey, are you a follower of Jesus? And they go, yeah, I think used to. You could just go oh sweet, we're brothers and sisters in Christ. And you leave it at that. But really I found you got to dig a little deeper, because often the more people talk about their Jesus, the less and less that Jesus sounds like the Jesus of the Bible. Because what we've done in culture is whatever your thing is or whatever you're passionate about or whatever your agenda is, Jesus has almost become the hero of that movement.
Speaker 2But the problem is, is it's a Jesus shaped by preferences, opinions and tolerances? Now here's what's interesting I don't mean this for shock value, but I see it is that if the Jesus whom you follow, the Jesus whom you worship, the Jesus whom you raise your hands to, the Jesus whom you give to, the Jesus whom you serve, or even the Jesus whom you tell others about, if that Jesus is a Jesus that's shaped by your preferences and opinions and it's not the Jesus of the Bible, then all you've done is create an idol named Jesus, and there's no power in idols. See, we don't shape Jesus, jesus shapes us. Jesus doesn't need to change. We need to change Our opinions about. Jesus does not change who he is. He's the same yesterday, today and forever. However, our faith in the real Jesus will absolutely change who we are, and so I think that's where there's got to be a shift to where people go.
Speaker 2I'm a follower of Jesus. Well, is it a Jesus that you've created by your own opinions, or is it the Jesus of the Word of God? Because that's two different people. And the Jesus of the Word of God, that's the one who saves, that's the one who gives eternal life, that's the one who transforms life, that's the one who gives hope and joy and peace and love. Let's meet the real Jesus of the Bible. So I feel like, if there's got to be a focus on us in the church is really reintroducing the real Jesus of the scriptures, because I think a lot of people have been clouded in their judgment or clouded in who Jesus is, because they've allowed culture to shape who Jesus is, instead of diving into the scriptures and letting the scriptures tell us who Jesus is. So that's one of the big things let's meet the Jesus of the Bible.
Speaker 2I think an other area where we can be really bold and really be countercultural is still in the areas of sexuality and gender, because I think there's still a generation extremely confused about that, because we also got to remember culture disciples, culture preaches, sermons, culture also has evangelists. They just have a bad message. So when culture is screaming about these things but the church largely remains silent, then a whole generation only hears one worldview and they start believing things. And then us adults, we get really mad and we get really bent out of shape going. Well, how did teenagers believe that? Or why did college students believe that? Well, we get really mad and we get really bent out of shape going. Well, how do teenagers believe that? Or why do college students believe that? Well, we haven't been a part of the conversation as adults, and so what we need to do is we need to speak where the Bible speaks and we need to reenter those conversations, but not reenter with our opinions or reenter with our politics. Let's reenter with the scriptures and speak where the Bible speaks and the Bible speaks on this.
Speaker 2In fact, there's a young lady that serves on our team and she's in her mid-twenties and somebody asked her recently hey, in a young person's view, when should the church stop talking about biblical sexuality?
Speaker 2She goes when the world stops talking about the false biblical sexuality and the world's never going to stop talking about it.
Speaker 2Therefore, we can't stop talking about it.
Speaker 2So I feel like when young people see, okay, hey, this person's not a jerk, they're not overbearing, but they are boldly and convictionally sharing the truth of God's word and what the word says about holy sexuality and biblical sexuality, I think that's real attractive to young people because we got to remember, if they're in the schools or if they're on university campuses, they're on the front lines of this and so they're looking for some handles to be able to carry their beliefs, their worldview, their doctrine, their theology into the front lines with. And when we've largely remained silent or we haven't equipped them or we haven't discipled them, then we're just kind of leaving them to fend for themselves, and that's not fair. I think if the church doesn't start speaking up in a bold, convictional but kind way, then we're going to owe a whole generation an apology, because we're just leaving them to fend for themselves, because there is a movement and culture that is trying to be imposed and forced on a generation, so we need to give them some truth to counteract that with you know.
Speaker 1Yeah. So how do you? How do you distinguish? Because I mean, yes, a lot of people are very much like, yes, we should do what the Bible says, but many different people interpret it different ways. And there are people on the other side of sexuality and they're like, hey, this is what the Bible says, mm, hmm, you kind of reconcile that situation.
Biblical Authority and Truth in Conversation
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, no, I love it. I think one thing we do is, when we're talking about, especially in the areas of sexuality, sex and gender, we should bathe that conversation with Scripture, because we have to realize, as adults, when we're talking to young people, we do have a barrier to cross, because there's been a group of young people who were intentionally discipled by culture to say to believe this that the moment a Christian starts talking about life when does life begin? When does life begin? Marriage, what is sex, gender? There's been a whole generation that's been intentionally discipled by culture to believe those are political issues, those are political statements. So the moment a Christian starts talking about that, then you can easily go oh, that Christian's political or that Christian's being too political, and what we need to do is to go, hey, we got to bathe these conversations with scripture, because if we're just sharing our thoughts and not sharing scripture, then it's easy for young people to go well, that's just your opinion or that's just your truth. And then we go, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2There is an authoritative truth, which is the word of God. Here's what the word of God says. It's not my opinion, because, at the end of the day, my opinion doesn't matter. Here's what the eternal living word of God says. All right, so this is where we go. We base everything on scripture. I still believe everything we know about God comes from the word of God. So people go no, no, no, we can learn about God through nature. Well, the only way we know that is because Romans tells us that God has chosen to primarily reveal himself through his word, through the scriptures. So when people go well, I mean, I worship God, and me and God have an understanding, and this is what me and God believe. It doesn't matter what the Bible says. Again, you're making that up. That's your opinion. You're forming God in your image instead of being formed in his image. So we go back to the authority, which is scripture. Here's what scripture says.
Speaker 2When people go well, hey, you know. Well, this is, you know. Oh, this is for this time, or this is what was said. But Jesus never said that. Here's what I just say lovingly.
Speaker 2Give me one verse, Give me just one. All I need is one verse that affirms or celebrates homosexuality. Give me one verse that affirms or celebrates transgender. Just give me one verse. I mean there's 66,000, and, depending on what translation, you have more than that thousands of verses. Just give me one that affirms and celebrates bisexuality or pansexuality, and there's not. You can't come up with any. But I can give a lot of verses that talk about what biblical marriage is.
Speaker 2So, at the end of the day, when we talk about life, when we talk about marriage, when we talk about sexuality, those were biblical truths before they were ever political statements. So actually right to life. When does life begin? That's a biblical truth. What is marriage? That's a biblical truth. Gender and sexuality that's a biblical truth. So, really, the world is infringing on the Word's territory and not vice versa. So speak where the Bible speaks and the Bible speaks. Now, here's the deal. Nowhere in the Bible does it give us a right to be a jerk for Jesus either. So you can't be a jerk for Jesus. Be kind, be loving, but also be truthful and bold and convictional.
Speaker 1Yeah, that's definitely a good way to put it. So I don't disagree, but I'm kind of on team. You know, there is the Bible. I believe the bible is authoritative. Um, all that jazz, it's just the I. I definitely think that there is some spirit in there which I know you would agree with. I didn't want to, I didn't want to leave that out because it sounded like you were like scriptures, you know it isitative, but I wanted to hear you say you know the spirit aspect as well, so maybe yeah, grant.
Speaker 2And absolutely, man. I'm glad you said that and we can nuance that even a little more, because I'll even say this, right, you know, because we always hear people go hey, well, they, you know, they read the Bible or they memorize the Bible, or they believe the Bible. I don't know why they live this certain way. Well, listen, here's what I always tell people you can read the Bible, you can memorize the Bible, you can quote the Bible, but unless you have the author of the Bible living inside of you, you'll never truly fully understand the word of God, you'll never truly live out the word of God the way that God's called. So it's spirit and in truth, even Jesus talked about that in John 4, right, spirit and truth. So I would say this who is the?
Speaker 2According to the scriptures itself, the ultimate author of the Bible is God himself. But even nuance that some, the ultimate author of the Bible in the triune of God, god, the father, god, the son, god, the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit of God. And so I believe, to truly understand the word of God for what it was meant to be, you have to have the author of the word of God, the Holy Spirit of the word of God inside of you, growing you, illuminating those scriptures, giving you the power to understand, giving you the power to live it out, to truly be able to understand the word of God the way it's meant to be word of God. So I truly believe that you have to have the Holy Spirit to truly understand the scriptures and truly live them out.
Speaker 1Yeah, which I knew. You thought that I just wanted to kind of put that out there. Yeah, definitely to kind of put that out there, because there's a such thing as, obviously, like biblical scholars, that don't give a rip about living it out, they're just actually studying the text.
Speaker 2Yeah, that reminds me of an old Leonard Ravenhill quote. He says if we're not careful and we only err on truth without love and the spirit, then we become those with swollen heads and shrunken hearts. Oh man, yeah, so I love that, yep.
Speaker 1Oh yeah, that's very solid. But there's also the other way, too, of being like I'm going to live out the gospel and then being like you know, not read a lick of scripture and then just hanging out and being like this is what Jesus would do, I could feel in my spirit, whatever.
Speaker 2And then, you know, I think I think my favorite one in that when I say favorite I really mean this favorite is when people go. Well, me and God have an understanding like the scriptures. That's the understanding living out, you know immediate through the power of the Holy Spirit. That's the understanding. And I would say this the Holy Spirit is not going to lead you to do something that is contrary to the Holy Bible. So the Holy Spirit is never going to lead you to do something that contradicts the Holy Bible.
Speaker 1You to do something that contradicts the Holy Bible. Yeah, facts, that is 100% true. And I love the idea of, like you know, the Holy Spirit illuminating the scriptures. To you it's super big because if you just kind of read the Bible there's a lot of weird paradoxical stuff, at least to me. When you know, on my read through last year it was just like, okay, this is completely contradictory to this other thing, right. But you know, you hit that right and I get why people say you know the Bible contradicts itself.
Speaker 1The Bible isn't inerrant. I get why you would get that. And I am curious about your thoughts on the inerrancy of Scripture here in a second. But just the idea of it does in a sense create paradoxes, right Of like what's a paradigm, predestination, free will, whatever it is, that's just the easiest one to think of. But, like you know, there's all sorts of grace and truth, another one, judgment and complete grace within the Father, whatever it is, and it has all these paradoxes in it and without the literal Holy Spirit living inside of you, I think that that is very easy to get like hung up on until you realize that God is just huge and you're just not.
Speaker 2Yeah, I love this conversation too, because I feel like a lot of people don't talk about this. I would say this even with the Holy Spirit, even diving into the scriptures for a long time, following Jesus for decades, you're still not going to know everything you know. Because I think if our little finite mind could wrap around the infinite mind of God in a way that brings God down to our level and God is not us and we're not God, you know what I mean and so like we'll never fully understand. And until we're in our glorified state and see the Lord face to face and he chooses to reveal what he chooses to reveal, and I don't think we even fully know that. And I think I want to give permission to your listeners who are adults when you're engaging with young people, I want to give you the permission to say it's okay to say I don't know, because I think that's even more attractive to young people and I think it's more authentic and it's more transparent, which we know young people care a lot about when we go.
Understanding Faith and Beliefs
Speaker 2I don't fully understand it all, I trust it, but I don't understand it. I'll do the best I can to get you an answer, but I'd much rather us adults to say I don't know, I don't understand, I don't get it. I'd much rather say statements like that than us to try to make up an answer or get offended because young people are asking questions. I think that's where we can err sometimes is I think sometimes, when young people are asking questions, if we're as adults, sometimes we think they're trying to be rebellious or they're trying to be, you know, like critical, and they're not. They may just be inquisitive, they may be curious, and so we can't be offended by their questions or be offended by their challenges. And it's OK for us to go I don't know. It's okay for us to go I don't get it, I understand, but I trust it, and that's where faith comes in.
Speaker 1I don't have to know it all and I really think that's one of the main reasons, at least for you know, I can't say in a grand scale, but just the people around me. One of the main reasons that people like deconstruct the faith completely. So when I say deconstruct, I mean just actually apostatizing, like deconstruct a little bit down and then leaving the faith is because and this happened to me too of just being asking a lot of questions as a kid, right, and then adults telling you things that were just absolutely nonsense, that you trusted, which is, you know, it's, it's kind of their fault, in the sense of like it is nice to know the answer. Right, there is an amount of pride to be like hey, you don't know this, I do, here's truth. Hey, you don't know this, I do, here's truth. There's also a humility there as well, of like walking it through together.
Speaker 1Is is big, and for adults to just be like yo, I really don't know the answer to this question, but let's find out together. Is the next step of just like, hey, let's, you know, you want to know if hell's eternal and if it's, you know, annihilationism or whatever it is, let's, let's go, let's go look into it, you know. And also let's look into heaven too, because that's as equally crazy as hell is. You know that sort of thing.
Speaker 2I don't know yeah.
Speaker 1And.
Speaker 2I think we and it's okay, you know, to live and operate with open hand and closed hand issues. You know, you know I'm obviously not the one who've come up with this, this has been said for decades upon decades but I think it's helpful to go as believers when it comes to truth and the word of God. There are some closed hand doctrines that we believe, and even the closed hand kind of shows a fist. Those are worth fighting about, right, like to go man. Jesus was born of a virgin. Jesus was fully God, fully man lived the perfect life that we did not live. Jesus died literally on a cross. Jesus was literally buried. Jesus literally fully overcame the grave. He is the only way to the Father, and you could go on and on.
Speaker 2Those are doctrines and beliefs that are closed hand to go. If we're going to identify as Christians and as the family of God and me to go brother, that's my sister I have to believe, and you have to believe that about me, that we believe these things and those are worth fighting about. But there's also a lot of teachings in the scripture that would be open hand issues, meaning you may view this a certain way, I may view it a certain way and those don't line up. But they're really open hand issues, meaning we can still be unified, we can still be brothers and sisters in Christ, we can still worship together, we can still serve the Lord together and we may just see this differently and that's okay. So I think that's even understanding what are closed-hand issues in the Bible, what are open-hand, and understanding that going. If we're going to fellowship together, we got to agree on these closed hands. If we're going to fellowship together, it's okay to have a different view on these open hand issues and that's been helpful to understand that as well.
Speaker 1Yeah, that's a lot of what my podcast is about too, of just figuring out what are the quote-unquote tenets of faith that one has to believe, and I definitely would put a really complex, difficult question. It's a lot harder because for me it was super easy and you know it was like, okay, you believe in the God of the Bible, you know you believe in the Trinity, all that jazz, you believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, and then you realize that there are people that don't believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, but they believe all the other stuff and they live out lives loving their neighbor and loving God. And you're like, well dang, I'd fellowship with that guy all day. So what if? I don't know? It's more sticky than I thought it was going into it, but also, to me, the hill I'll die on.
Speaker 1Number one is Jesus Christ is the son of the living God. Yahweh, god of the Old Testament, god of the New Testament. The I Am whatever you want to call him, the I am whatever you want to call him, just he is the son of God. The Trinity has got to be a thing, or else you get messed up, which that was brought to my attention by another guy, elias Dummer. He brought that to my attention. He was like you got to throw a Trinity in there. And I was like, yeah, if you don't, you get absolutely goofed on doctrine and theology and on everything, because it's like so you got to throw a tranny in there. But then, yeah, there's a couple other things.
Speaker 2It's hard, god, I think him, um. No, I think I believe him living a perfect, sin-free life. That's important, um, because you gotta have sets him apart.
Speaker 2He was able to do what we were not able to do. You know the crucifixion, the burial, the resurrection, you know those are all his eventual return, you know now, and what does that eventual return look like? I think that's where you can get into some open hand issues Right, but I think that he is coming back. The reconciliation of all things. Issues Right, but I think that he is coming back. The reconciliation of all things. I feel like the first thing is and and of course you know, I think to really believe that about Jesus. Is you got to trust the Bible? Is you got to get Jesus right? If you don't get Jesus right, everything else is going to be off. You know what I mean. So you got to get Jesus right.
Speaker 1Well, he's got to get you right.
Speaker 2But yeah, yeah, yeah and and that's right, but he's going to get you right. But yeah, yeah, yeah, and, and that's right. Uh, yeah, yeah, exactly, and and that's where, um, you know, that's why that really kind of the next thing I'm diving into for the next year is just let's, let's, let's really rediscover who the Jesus of the scriptures is, the Jesus of the Bible. Um, because we got to get that right.
Interpreting the Bible With Humility
Speaker 1If we don't get that right, we're going to be off everywhere else, you know, yeah, and. I'm super excited about that and definitely send that to us somehow. Yeah, you got it, man, For sure. Yeah, it sounds super interesting to learn about, because I definitely agree I mean there's definitely and even still, when I've been learning and this and that you'll realize that you just have a completely different interpretation. That was based off of your own feelings about Jesus, and I still run it. It's like dadgum, I don't know.
Speaker 2Yeah, and that's really the humble approach I want to take. I don't know. Yeah, and that's the, and that's really the humble approach I want to take. To go.
Speaker 2Chances are we all have blind spots in this area. When it comes to Jesus to go, oh man, maybe there are some things in my life that I believe about Jesus and it's really more dictated by my opinions and scriptures, because we tend to want to. You know, we tend to want to make Jesus and I think we can all default to this is we tend to think Jesus is passionate about what I'm passionate about. Jesus cares about what I care about.
Speaker 2Jesus gets angry about the things I get angry about. Jesus would vote the way I voted. You know what I mean, and what we're doing is we're putting ourself in control and if we're not careful, we can all default to that. So I don't want to approach this in the snarky way going all right. Here's where you're all getting it wrong. What I'm saying is there may be some areas where all of us have some blind spots and really we just need to take a step back, be humble and go. Man, I want to meet the real Jesus. I want to really meet the Jesus of the word of God, not the Jesus of my opinions and preferences.
Speaker 1Yeah, and that's to me one of the huge benefits of community at least for me of having friends. That'll be dude. You're just really stupid right here. Yeah, no doubt, man, that's a good point.
Speaker 2Yeah, dude, yeah, yeah, like not out of the Bible Wonderful, I think we're off right here, brother. Yeah, that's helpful, no doubt.
Speaker 1That's super nice.
Speaker 2Yeah, and you brought it up. While I go, man, I'd love to just briefly state my view, because I'm always open to hearing other views. But, man, I always want to be clear, up front and real direct about what I believe.
Speaker 1So you know you talked about the Bible and errancy.
Speaker 2Man, just the way that I was taught growing up and once I met Jesus at 21 and then really just discipled through, then is man I kind of use the language my old pastor used man. I believe the Bible is the word of God and errant from Genesis through the maps. So he covered all you know from Genesis through the maps at the back. And here's why, here's why I know people go well, what about? You know this part and Exodus or this, or or you know this was at a? Here's the approach that I have to take and here's why I believe this is the better approach is that it's easier for me to go, man. I believe it's all the word of God. I believe it is inerrant. I believe the Holy Spirit has been in control of this. I believe God has protected his word throughout history. I believe that the Holy Spirit is the ultimate author. I believe that is the primary way that God reveals himself to us is through his word. And so for me, it's easier for me to go. I believe this is all the word of God and I trust it and it's authoritative. Then for me to pick and choose which parts are authoritative and which parts aren't, which parts are inerrant and which parts aren't, which parts are inspired by God and which parts aren't.
Speaker 2You know, in fact, there was a movement several years back and they would say this the Bible contains the Word of God, but isn't fully the Word of God.
Speaker 2Now, when people hear that, they go oh okay, I get that to the untrained ear, or if we're not really listening, oh okay, I get that to the untrained ear, or if we're not really listening, the Bible contains the Word of God, but isn't the Word of God. Here's the difference. What it means is, the Bible contains the Word of God, but there's some parts of the Bible that aren't the Word of God. The problem with that is now it's up to mankind to pick and choose which parts are the word of God and which parts aren't. And now that makes us the authority. When I am now the authority to pick which parts are inerrant and which parts aren't, which parts are the word of God and which parts aren't, that's just too dangerous, that's dangerous ground, and so when we have that view, it truly makes us the authority over Scripture. Instead of making Scripture the authority over us, I'd much rather be in the camp, where Scripture is the authority over us and not us being the authority over Scripture. I hope that makes sense.
Speaker 1Yeah, I think that's definitely a fair view. My view would just be that I think it is true, if that makes sense. Yeah, in the true definition of truth, of where it like leads to god and everything in there is true. Inerrant is a word that I can't quite get behind. Yeah, like it is true. Like the Bible is truth, like it doesn't just contain truth, like that is the, to me, the word of God, everything in it is absolutely true. Now, that being said, it's the inerrant part that gets me a little bit. Sure. You know, and I guess, if you get fully and I really don't have a fantastic interpretation of the Bible as far as, like I don't know Hebrew, I don't know Greek, it's hard to distinguish this from that kind of thing but as far as inerrant goes, I think that there's totally the possibility of what I have on the page isn't necessarily what was reflected by the original authors, but I think, if you get the concept, it is true, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, so I would be there with you. You know, if I'm going okay, there's some parts that I believe are inerrant, there's some parts that could have now have errors through time or through copies or translations through other languages. It still puts me in a position to go OK, what part is inerrant, what part's not? So now I go OK was John 3, 16. Maybe that's errors. Maybe God didn't fully love the world that he sent his only son, maybe that's an error. I just don't trust myself enough, nor do I trust anyone else to tell me which parts are errors and which parts aren't, if that makes sense, yeah.
Speaker 1Yeah, I think it's definitely a better way to go to believe that it's inerrant than it is to be like hey, I'm going to pick and choose which parts I can base my life on, because that's totally not what I'm saying. Yeah for sure. Yeah, and I think you got that. Yeah, you and.
Speaker 2I are a lot closer in this belief than probably others that we're kind of like talking about as examples in this, because what I've seen mainly, though, is people kind of picking and choosing. What I've seen mainly, though, is people kind of picking and choosing, and just in our flesh. I think we would all love to go through the Bible with a black highlighter instead of a yellow one, meaning like oh, don't like that verse.
Speaker 2Don't like that verse, like this yeah, and I think that's one thing we have to remember too is cults also use the Bible, right, I mean? Because here's the deal you can cherry pick enough scripture out of context that you really can make the Bible say whatever you want it to. Sadly, a lot of cults use the Bible too. So I think that's why it's so important to understand the original intent of the human author, to understand what the Holy Spirit's doing. Plead with the Holy Spirit, god, illuminate this, reveal your intent. That's why hermeneutics is so important. That's why understanding literature is so important. You go what is a metaphor? What is allegory? What is narrative? What is actual literal? What's descriptive text? What's prescriptive text?
Speaker 2I think us doing the hard work of learning those disciplines helps us understand the Bible more, and that's why I always encourage people to.
Speaker 2I know we're going into the deep end because I love that stuff, I'm a nerd with that but even going back more to the shallow end, that's why I've encouraged teenagers and young adults and even older adults to go hey, your devotional time every day.
Speaker 2That's more than an opportunity for you to take a selfie with your Bible and your coffee cup to put on Instagram when you actually think of what's taken place to go here is the Word of God, that the ultimate author of that Word of God is the Holy Spirit Himself. And as believers, we believe the Holy Spirit dwells inside of us. So think of the holy moments that's taking place when you're reading your Bible. You got the Holy Spirit, the author of the Word of God, reconnecting with His work. As you're reading with the Word of God and when the author inside of you is reconnecting with His work and you're part of that moment. What takes place in that Illumination, what takes place in that Discipleship, what takes place in that Sanctification that's a beautiful holy moment. So don't use devotional time as just a check the box, post the picture moment. Realize it's a holy moment of what's taking place in those moments.
Speaker 1Realize it's a holy moment of what's taking place in those moments. Well, that's awesome, man. So I'm going to cut it here in a little bit, but is there anything that you have that I like to give people a space at the end to share? You know, whatever they want to share with their audience, you got anything.
Speaker 2Yeah, man, I love that. Yeah, absolutely. Grant man just got a couple of books out there. One is called Non Nine Common Lives Christians Believe. It kind of takes different cultural cliches versus what are the Bible actually have to teach, you know, like cliches like follow your heart, believe in yourself, If a loved one dies, god gains another angel All those cliches that aren't biblically true versus what's the Bible actually have to teach about that. Got another book for those who feel called to ministry leadership called Calling Out the Call. Got a great Bible study out right now for young people called Revival Generation. Also, I have a podcast called the Jensen Podcast and you can connect to all of those resources just through shanepruittnet or jensen G-E-N-S-E-N-Dorg or you can find me on social media, instagram and X. It's just Shane underscore Pruitt, p-r-u-i-t-t 78. Facebook Shane Pruitt and yeah all of that stuff.
Speaker 2I'd love for you to engage with it and hope it's a help and blessing to you as you follow Jesus and get to know him and make him known.
Speaker 1Sweet man. Well, that was a blast interviewing you again, man. That was a good time, Always a joy. Thanks for listening to the Across the Counter podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please rate us five stars wherever you got this podcast. Thanks, y'all.