Across the Counter
This podcast is a passion project where we interview a diverse blend of musicians, authors, podcasters, pastors, and thinkers about semi religious topics.
Instead of listening to respond or debate, we listen to understand through finding common ground and hearing our guests’ stories.
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Across the Counter
Grief and Hope | Chad Bird | Episode 54
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Join us as we sit Across the Counter from author, scholar, and podcaster Chad Bird.
In this ATC Episode:
• Have you ever wondered how life's unexpected turns can lead to profound personal transformation? Join us as we chat with Chad Bird, a Scholar in Residence at 1517, who shares his remarkable journey from seminary professor to truck driver in the Texas oil fields. Chad's story is a testament to resilience and faith, highlighting how he found renewed purpose in producing enlightening content centered on the Bible. His current work with 1517 is more than just a job; it’s a calling that aligns with his God-given mission.
• In a deeply moving segment, we reflect on the heartbreaking experience of losing a young loved one through the eyes of a grieving parent. The story of Luke, whose life was abruptly cut short, serves as a powerful reminder of the necessity to reimagine the future. Anchoring our discussion in the Christian belief of eternal life, we draw inspiration from C.S. Lewis's poignant metaphor of life as merely the front porch to our eternal home. The hope of a future reunion provides solace, urging us to live lives of service and faithfulness despite the pain.
• Lastly, we explore the often challenging yet spiritually enriching journey of enduring hardships as part of the Christian faith. Drawing parallels to disciplined practices like biohacking, Chad explains how carrying one's cross leads to spiritual growth and transformation. We delve into the battle between flesh and spirit, the struggle of forgiveness, and recognizing our inner conflicts. Chad also gives us a sneak peek into his upcoming book, "Hitchhiking with Prophets: A Ride Through the Salvation Story of the Old Testament," which promises a creative and engaging journey through the Old Testament.
Don’t miss this episode filled with heartfelt stories, spiritual insights, and a celebration of faith and resilience.
Connect with Chad:
Instagram: @chadlbird
Buy his book here:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1956658866?cspi=6e04cf7c325a2de647e2d631e5d11a338feffb2bc46935921a866ef27a8c0a02adfa69bf05f99503ec058e07a486c0d7820dec0621fb8e687c611d0a95f29102&ref=cm_sw_r_cso_cp_bks_apin_dp_RZRDJ8GFPDEKF0QP9ZF3&ref_=cm_sw_r_cso_cp_bks_apin_dp_RZRDJ8GFPDEKF0QP9ZF3&social_share=cm_sw_r_cso_cp_bks_apin_dp_RZRDJ8GFPDEKF0QP9ZF3&fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaaXUXSaeNFjfnFtea_-3a1cEvyaNtu2eJABKL5lNr84bThfuh937zGws64_aem_At0M2T45oEPUR2AsToQG_w
Journey of Faith and Redemption
Speaker 1Pull up a chair across the counter your one-stop shop for a variety of perspectives around Jesus and Christianity. I'm Grant Lockridge and I'm here with my co-host, jared Tafta, and today we are interviewing Chad Bird. Chad is a podcast guy. He is a scholar in residence at 1517. So my first question for you would be what is 1517?
Speaker 2You know, I get asked that question a lot.
Speaker 3Well, it's a good question.
Speaker 2I mean. So the typical guess that people have is that like a Bible chapter and verse. Because I teach the Bible, the answer is well, no, that'd be kind of cool too. It's taken from the year the Protestant Reformation began. Martin Luther nailed the 95 theses on the church door on October 31st 1517. That's where we get our name from. Most of the people in my organization, which is a Christian nonprofit, are connected with, deeply connected with the Reformation heritage. So most of us are in the Lutheran tradition, although at our events we have people speaking from their Episcopalians or Anglicans or Presbyterians, their Reformed Baptists. You know Lutherans just kind of across the board. But that's where the name comes from. Is that year the Reformation began?
Speaker 1Cool, and what kind of what part do you play in that kind of organization?
Speaker 2Well, we were joking before we started recording that the title they gave me is Scholar in Residence, so I petitioned for Scholar in Texas when they gave the title out but, cause.
Speaker 2Yeah, just they didn't go for it. So I I'm a scholar in residence, even though my residence is in Texas, the organization is primarily in California, but yeah, I mean so fancy title. Basically what I do is I produce a lot of content for the organization. I write about a book a year for them, so I started full time with them late in 2019. And so I've done a book a year for them about oh, I think it's averaging like 14 times a year, I suppose something like that, so close to 15 times a year across the country, sometimes internationally.
Speaker 2And then a lot of what I do is just producing podcasts. I got three different podcasts that I'm part of. One is a finished it's a completed podcast, like surveys of the whole Bible, and the other two are ongoing podcasts. So I'll record a couple of those episodes per week and then I do daily videos on the Bible. And then I do a lot of online stuff. So on my Facebook page I'll post like a textual kind of post and a video video every day. So I'm just a a content producer in lots of different formats, whether it's podcast videos or book writing or just little short article blog type writing Sounds like a lot man.
Speaker 2Yeah, they keep me busy, yeah, and so I'm a, I'm 54 and I think every year that I live I sleep less, and not by choice.
Speaker 2So my body is now at the stage where, if it gets six hours of sleep a night, it's like okay, time to get up. So I'm I'm up early and I've always been an early riser, so I'll get up around to do my thing for the day and then I'll head back to work and get as much done as I can. But I love what I do, which is great, because that way it's work for sure, and everybody has bad work days, no matter how much they love their job. But for the most part I really love what I do. So it doesn't feel like it's just oh, I got to go to work, I got to do this kind of stuff. It's more like I love this stuff. So that really transforms my understanding of what I do, because I love what I do. It's a passion, but I also think it's what God has placed me in, so that just gives a whole different meaning to the work.
Speaker 1How did you stuff like that?
Speaker 2Yeah. So I wouldn't recommend anybody taking the exact course that I took to get to where I'm at there you go and I'll tell you why. I'll give you the really, really brief reason. So I began wanting to go into the ministry, which I did. I went to seminary, college, four years of seminary, got a couple of master's degrees, and then I served in a church as a pastor. I'm giving you this short version here. So I served as a pastor for a few years and then I was also, then, after that, I taught at the seminary, taught Hebrew, old Testament classes, and so I did that for a number of years. And then, you know, once I kind of had this was my mid 30s, so once I kind of had life everywhere, kind of where I wanted it to be, I thought, you know, what would be a good thing would be to to blow up everything that you've accomplished. At this point, yeah.
Speaker 2Yeah, and then and then like maybe start over and it take 10 or 15 years to to recover. So, uh, unwisely, that is the decision that I made. Uh, uh, I'll spare you all the gory details, but yeah, I just, I blew up my marriage, my career, my job, everything. So this is I'm like I said I'm 54, this is 20 years ago and, uh, lost everything, everything. Only thing I still had were my, my two kids, uh, and even then it was just seeing them every couple of days per week. So, lost everything and I wanted to live where my kids were. So I had to, you know, climbing ladder, all that kind of stuff to being a truck driver in the oil fields of Texas, cause that was the only job I could find that would allow me to live where my kids were.
Speaker 2So, within a year, I went from being a you know having everything together and seminary professor and all that kind of stuff, to being everything together and seminary professor and all that kind of stuff, to being, you know, guy wears a seal toe boots and a hard hat and driving the night shift in the, uh, the back roads of Texas. But uh, that was the beginning. That, you know, I think it's Louie, the more the Western writer has this quote. He says something like that will come a point where you come to the end. He says something like there will come a point where you come to the end, that will be the beginning. It's kind of what it was for me. So when I came to that end point and hit bottom and stayed on bottom for a while, that was really the point where God began putting me back together very slowly and in a very different sort of way for me and over time got me to where I actually had a very healthy relationship with God again.
Speaker 2I remarried to my wife Stacy.
Speaker 2This was 11 years ago and around that time I know this is a long answer to your question, but around that time is when I started writing again, just blogging and then some publishers reached out to me and I got some book contracts and got connected with the organization 1517 that I work for now and eventually then they hired me on full time.
Speaker 2So I kind of went from, you know, like everything going great to everything going terrible, to then God undoing me, redoing me and eventually putting me in a position where this is why I didn't recommend this where I can draw upon my academic and pastoral background, but I can also draw upon what I call my PhD in the School of Hard Knocks, where I've got a lot of scars from what I did, a lot of scars from I lost my son a couple years ago. I got that, just that life-shattering loss, and so I draw upon my personal experiences as well as my pastoral and academic experiences. I try and blend all that together in such a way that actually communicates to people wherever they're at in their spiritual life.
Speaker 3What was your son's name?
Speaker 2Luke. What happened? He was, uh, as he's 21 years old, so this is back in the summer of 22. He, um, he was at the United States Naval Academy, uh, which, which is his dream he, he was at the United States Naval Academy, which, which is his dream he had. So in high school he got. He found his two passions in high school wrestling and ROTC loved both. He was, he's got.
Speaker 2He was one of these kids where, like if it didn't, if it didn't hurt, or push you beyond the limits, he didn't really want to do it or push you beyond the limits, he didn't really want to do it. That was fun for him. So I remember I think it was his 19th or 20th. It must've been his 19th birthday. He celebrated it by getting up at like two or three in the morning and walking 19 miles. That's wild, it's kind of the kid he was. So he set his sights on getting into the academy. So he set his sights on getting into the academy, which is no small feat. I mean. That takes a lot and he did.
Speaker 2He was the battalion commander of his ROTC. His senior year he won international recognition. Just one of those kind of kids that you know very much an overachiever, very much driven 110%. And so he ended up at the Naval Academy and then he uh was awarded the chance to study abroad in Chile for a year. So he did, or semester he. He headed down there and uh got there early in the summer and he'd been there, I think, maybe a month and a half before the accident happened. He was out hiking close to a huge waterfall in Chile and taking pictures. He was there with another student, so he wasn't alone, thankfully. But he got too close to the edge and the ground gave way. He fell to his death. Dang edge and the ground gave way he. He fell to his death.
Speaker 2So yeah, it was uh you know, the worst fear any parent has is to go through something like that, and it was complicated by the fact, you know, he's, he's in chile and I don't know if you've ever known someone who lost a loved one. Oh, you know, internationally it's. It's a huge headache to get them home. So it took us three weeks. Even with, like you know, everybody, everything, everybody, from our uh, the top brass, the military, to our senators, to uh people, americans in Chile trying to, you know, speed things up, it still took us three weeks to get his body home. So it was a very surreal time in my life, a lot of kind of foggy memories, honestly, of those weeks and months after that. But yeah, it was, of course, one of those losses in life that reshapes you in ways that nobody wants, but God still uses that to do His kind of work in your life. That's painful but at the same time, that bears fruit in the sense of it refocusing you upon those things which are most important.
Speaker 3What year was that?
Speaker 22022.
Speaker 32022.
Speaker 2Yeah, so we're coming up on. It'll be july, will be the two-year, two-year anniversary of his loss july.
Speaker 3What a few years ago I think we're coming up on. I think we just passed five years. Mom, wife's brother, um, at a young age, in his 20s, actually had an accident and fell and there was other details involved, but lost him and yeah, just the losing of a son, what you mentioned like the worst fear a parent can imagine it's. We've learned so much about trauma and grief and the fact that there's no time on that healing process and nobody grieves the same way. And, yeah, we just passed his birthday a little while back. We have photos of my first son His name is Alex of holding our first son and it began a journey of my wife and I as well in the midst of a journey of the Lord reshaping us.
Speaker 3You mentioned earlier that quote. There will be a point when you come to the end and that will be the beginning. And there's one author, I think, wrote a book I I haven't read it, but it was talking about the idea of like the j curve, the idea that you, if you think of a j, you think you've come to a bottom and then a trap door opens and then it curves again and you think you've come to a bottom and a trap door opens and you think you've come to a bottom and a trap door opens and, uh, saint john of the cross called what you were talking about. I think I'm getting this quote right. Actually, I have a resident uh, what's this? What is he? A resident theologian?
Speaker 3he's a scholar in residence okay, okay, so I have a friend uh named chad that I just met.
Finding Hope and Renewed Purpose
Speaker 3He's a scholar in residence who can verify whether or not this is saint john of the cross, uh, but he said I think he called it the dark night of the soul, um, and and talked about, like this idea of coming to endings. But the long point of what I am talking about is like I feel like there are kind of multiple dark nights of the soul or multiple endings, and I see a man before me that's not put together but is hopefully held together in my opinion. So where, where do you find joy now, maybe that's not the right word when do you find life in your hope? That is not self-defeatist.
Speaker 2Yeah, that's a really good question. Today I'll give you an answer and tomorrow maybe it's a little bit different answer, but I do think there's some continuity that I've been able to discern over over time. So I guess let me let me preface my answer by saying that you know, one of the things I discovered right away that I never would. There's a lot of things I found out that I never would have anticipated.
Speaker 3Right.
Speaker 2Knowing you're discovering, and one is that when you lose someone young this is a quote from a book I read years ago called the Undertaking, written by an undertaker, but the Undertaking, and he had a chapter where he talks about how, when you bury the old, you bury the past. When you bury the young, you bury the future. And so true, because what I've discovered is that you have to reconfigure psychologically your entire understanding of what your future is going to be like, because you have, when it's a child, you kind of have unconsciously planned their future. You know this is going to happen then, that, then probably this and this he's going to graduate, he's going to find out where he's going to serve, he's going to get married, he's going to have kids, you're going to have grandkids, he's going to bury you one of these days, he's going to bury you one of these days, and that entire future is now not a reality. It had been a firm reality and now it's it's gone, so it didn't. You have to, almost like your brain has to be completely rewired to think about the future now, because what you thought was the future is no longer going to be.
Speaker 2Well, then that and this is kind of leading into an answer to your question. That then leads to well, what is the future? And one of the things that gives me life in the midst of all of this, and joy and hope, is that I know and this is a quote from uh, what's his name? Oh, good grief. Uh, cs Lewis loved his stuff. It'll come to me in a minute, but he talks about how this life is. Did you come up with it?
Speaker 3He wrote fiction nonfiction.
Speaker 2Oh my gosh, it's like it'll come to me in a second.
Speaker 3He wrote the fairy tale fictions.
Speaker 2Yes, yes, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2So one of us will think of it in a minute, but anyway he's got this great image. It was in a letter he wrote to a widow. He described this life as the front porch to our father's home Very small front porches are and they're just there, basically, so that you are given a temporary space by which to leave wherever you were, to enter into the front door of the father's house. To enter into the front door of the Father's house, and that fits with the Bible's picture of this life. You know where it's, as the flowers of the field or the grass or the shadow. It uses all these metaphors for the very kind of ephemeral nature of this life. So that understanding of the brevity of life has really been brought home to me by this and the understanding that really this life is a preparation. It's important, very important, but it's also a preparation for life that will never end.
Speaker 2Uh, you know, cs lewis did say once we've we've never met a person that will not live forever in one way or another, and so this life is a preparation for that, and so I look forward to that reunion that I will have with my son in a life that will never end, and I know that, yeah, however long the Lord gives me, you know, whether it's a day or a few more decades that, in the light of eternity, will seem but a drop in the bucket compared to the life that we will share in the future.
Speaker 2So I definitely anchor my hope and my joy into that, but at the same time, that's future oriented. The same time, even in the present, I use my memory of Luke as an inspiration to live in such a way as to honor his memory and to carry forward on what I know he would want me to do, which is to continue being faithful in my callings, to continue appointing people to the life that we have in Christ, to continue giving my all in serving other people. I think it was Luke's graduation speech from high school where he said uh, the most important people in our lives are those that we can look at and say that my life, my life, is better because of you. Be that person.
Speaker 2So, that's what I, that's what I try to do. So that's the present focus. And then there's also the past, because I thank God that I have a lot of great memories with Luke. You know we had a fantastic relationship. We did hikes together, we worked out together every week. We always stayed close, and so I'm grateful that I can, on those bad days, drop on those good memories as a way of helping me to bear up. If it's a really bad day, I can think back to those good times that we had together, and that helps me to maneuver those days when I'm ambushed by grief, or just the really hard days, like anniversaries and birthdays and basically any holiday where you would expect him to be there and he's not. So those are some of the ways I find life and hope in the midst of everything else that goes on.
Speaker 1That's beautiful man, but hit me with that quote one more time, Not the. I think we were talking about George McDonald, maybe.
Speaker 3I had to Google. Yeah, yeah, yes, yes, I had george, but I couldn't think of it. I was like irish guy. I don't.
Speaker 1I don't know who we're talking about, but I did google it, so I'm going, george mcdonald yep, but um, what was that quote that you, your son, said in his graduation speech? Because that's like he said some of the best things it was great.
Speaker 2Yeah, he said the most important people in our lives are those that we can look at and say my life is better because of you be that person that's great.
Speaker 1So yeah, and end it there, so we're good on that.
Speaker 2That's it.
Speaker 2It's a mic drop moment, for sure yeah, that's literally so good that's so yeah, well, and how he lived after that, it is it's pretty amazing too. I mean he really was one of those just looking for others way to help others. You know, very driven uh, but in a good way. He wanted to be, he wanted to excel in order to be able to be of service to other people. I mean that's he wanted to be. He wanted to excel in order to be able to be of service to other people. I mean that's. He went to the military with that, with that idea in mind. You know he was there as, like we say you know, thank you for your service. He was there to serve uh, always looking out for for other people. So he did, he didn't just say it, he embodied it too he did, he didn't just say it, he embodied it too.
Speaker 2Love it. That's, that's powerful. That that's huge. Yeah, yeah, he's one of those guys with a uh what are we? Old head on young shoulders, or however that saying goes he uh just kind of had one of those, those personalities, and so grateful for the 21 years we had with him and for the impact that he had during those uh years as well yeah what has the embodiment of that spirit?
Speaker 3how has the embodiment of that spirit brought new life to your efforts in others?
Speaker 2Yeah, one of the things I wanted to do and I and strangely enough, this was one of the more coherent, logical, conscious decisions I made early on. You know so much of, as you and your family probably probably experienced too. Uh, you know so much as just kind of this, your loss, this miasma of grief where it's really difficult to think and make decisions, and everything else. But early on I I knew that I wanted to honor Luke's memory by kind of reinvigorating what I do and using I mean it was I was already kind of doing what I had already been doing, but even more um, I mean what, what's the right word? Doing it even with, with even even greater, uh, zeal and focus. I wanted to.
Speaker 2I guess I don't know if I've ever put it this way, but in my head I was like you know what I want to do, what I do in teaching and and writing, and focusing upon the scriptures and Jesus and what he did for us. I want to do everything I can to make sure that Luke has as much company as possible in heaven. I want to keep people focused on Jesus. I want them to think of this life as a front porch to our Father's home. I want people to, one of these days, meet Luke and say something like one of the impacts that you had was on your dad, who once said this, once said this or once wrote this or whatever it might have been, and and that was what God used to help me to know you better and to to know Christ better, and to and to love him and and all of that.
Speaker 2So I want. That's one of the one of the ways I want to always honor his memory is by focusing upon the one that he's with now, focusing on Christ pointing people toward him.
Speaker 3I just had this. This doesn't feel morbid to me, but don't take offense, but I just had this image of you. Like you know, when you lose someone there's birthdays, you can't celebrate. Like you know, when you lose someone there's birthdays, you can't celebrate there's, you miss those opportunities. And I had this image of you just like filling the stands, like filling the room for every birthday that you're going to get to celebrate with Luke, with everybody possible, just like, bro, we're going to have so many people, we're going to celebrate so hard, we're going to have so many people, we're going to celebrate so hard. And when you said that it's just like you have no idea the parties that we're going to have because of the impact that Luke has had on you, and then you are holding fast too, yeah, that's beautiful.
Speaker 3I'm thinking of the Hebrews 13, I think, where he says you know, we have this kingdom that cannot be shaken, and he talks about I just hear it being like get ready to bring your ticket to the Feastal Gathering. Like don't lose that pass, you know, don't give it up for a daggum bowl of soup, like let's go. I'm sure you can say what I just said in a very academic way.
Speaker 2No, I love it. That's exactly right. Yeah yeah, here's this. The feast is prepared, so pull up a chair. Yeah, I love that the more the merrier. In the Gospels it says you know, there's more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents, or the angels of God rejoicing over one sinner who repents. So I want there to be constant applause in heaven over people who are coming to faith and trusting in Christ and being given that feast, that seat at the table.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 3This is going to sound strange, but a lot of things I say sound strange, but sometimes I feel like at least in my life personally I feel that I can experience the delight of the Spirit of God, almost like a string.
Speaker 3When a string is plucked. There's this resonance, and sometimes there's just things that are said, or often with words or story or song, that it just I don't know why, but it feels like this just resonance of delight. And when you, when you said you know the quote from luke about be that person, um, yeah, the most important people in life are the ones we can look to and say my life is better because of you be that person, like and then later you know you said that you wanted to do everything I can to make sure that Luke has as much company as possible Like I just felt, I just want to honor the Holy spirit and say, like I just felt such delight, like just incredible delight, those two sentiments, um, because the son got his, you know, got that spirit from his father in heaven, but also like there's a transference to you of your hopes coming aligned and being the same. So that's beautiful, yeah.
Speaker 2I just thank God for moments like that, where the Spirit does that, you know.
Speaker 3Yeah, is that familiar to you?
Speaker 2Yeah, sometimes they're out of the blue. You know, you just don't know what it's going to be. It can be something that you know, you think it's going to happen and it doesn't. Sometimes you have no idea. And then somebody says it's a song, it's a verse in the Bible. It's an experience. He says it's a song, it's a verse in the Bible, it's an experience, and you know, this is the Spirit doing His work within you and plucking that string and tapping on the shoulder.
Speaker 3I'm getting excited because I remembered something that I thought of the other day that I thought was like a funny thing from the Spirit, from God. You know how, when you talk about like fear, like somebody's behind behind you or watching the hair standing up on the back of your neck, well, I thought about the opposite of that, like the hair standing up on the back of my soul. Whenever God was delighted and in front of me or whenever he's around, it's just like, it feels like that I love, like CS Lewis. It's like like CS Lewis, you know. It's like Aslan is near and it's just like ooh, but not in fear. And it's like is he safe? And it's like no, no, but he's good. And I feel like there's been a lot of spirit, you know, with the young, restless and reformed, like this spirit of, like he's not safe, he's just and righteous, and it's like God is safe to his beloved and he's also incredibly good. But if safety, if the definition of safety is, is it not going to hurt, then no, like that's not, that's not.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's definitely going to hurt. Yeah, jesus said something about take up your. What was it he said? I don't know I believe it was backpack or you know, I believe it was something that was going to be very painful.
Speaker 2In fact it was probably going to kill you. I haven't. Yeah, it's there that you find life. You know that that is the thing that's really difficult, I think, for people outside the faith to understand, because, you know, christianity is not. We're quoting Lewis a lot here, you know. But he said you know, if I wanted just kind of happiness, I could get that in a bottle of port. You know, that's not what Christian life is all about. It's going to be painful, it's going to hurt. It's going to be painful, it's going to hurt. It's going to be a lot of demolition of the of of the person. Uh, because we that's what has to take place, you know we have to be broken down, to be and this is the part we always have to keep in mind we're being broken down in order that he can put us back together or something. Actually, that's even better for us, not just like what god wants but, better for us, right too.
Speaker 2It's just the, the demolition part that's very painful, uh, right, and so you, you go through that and it's in hindsight you look back, see, oh okay, I see what god was doing there. Right, I think I see what god was doing there, or sometimes I have no idea what god is doing there. I think I see what God was doing there, or sometimes I have no idea what God is doing there, but I'm just going to trust him that he was doing the right thing. But yeah, it's just kind of the pain that goes along with it. It's going to hurt, but you know, sometimes Aslan eats you too, but even that's for the best.
Speaker 3Yeah, there's a popular I think about. I think about like words of truth and like cultural comprehension outside of the Christian sphere, and so there's a lot of like biohackers or discipline oriented men that have have pushed this mantra to some degree. You can think of names, but you know, like hard is good, or like stay hard or go hard, or like doing hard things is good, and this is what hard feels like. And a month or two ago, or maybe for the whole past year, I begin to think along the lines of like you know, I'm walking this Christian walk of faith and some days you feel like you're dying. And a friend and I were talking and I said I think this is what dying feels like and that's good, the concept of it's like pick up your cross, and if it feels like you're dying, it's like pick up your cross, and if it feels like you're dying, that might be pretty good, like that's in line with what God's desire is. And I had the thought of like maybe a Christian walk is like. I just feel like I'm dying, a thousand deaths, you know, going through those J curves and losing yourself and coming to the end, and then that day, the walk across the river Jordan, like it's, it's, it's, it's, uh, you know, you, you're wading through what you've already like been through a million times, and I don't I don't long for that, but I did have that thought of like, yeah, I feel this feels like dying. And then, and then the psychological process of like, oh, there's, there's your, your, your fleshly self, and then the psychological process of like, oh, there's your fleshly self, and then there's that spiritual mind that's coming to life and your fleshly self is like I hate this. And then the spiritual self has become stronger. It's like, well, I think this might be good, and somehow you don't, because usually dying is like this feels, like it's going to destroy me, like there's going to be nothing left.
Speaker 3I think is the emotion. And then one day you think that you're going to pass away, and then the sun rises again and something did pass away and there's less of you. But then there's more substance. And I don't know that. I don't know that I'm at the place where, like the gym nerds, where I'm like, yeah, let's get that pump Like it does. I don't know that I'm like, yeah, let's, let's just go hard in in feeling like dying. But I maybe have turned the corner, by the grace of God, of like okay, um, I don't know that I'm a petulant whining child, Like I don't like hard. I'm a petulant whining child, like I don't like hard. I'm saying that currently. I'm going to regret that.
Speaker 1I'm going to regret that sentence. Mistakes were made.
Speaker 3Oh God, Now I'm thinking of the Hebrews 11, 12, whatever. Up until that point it's like strengthen your weak knees, Strengthen the path. Yeah, oh gosh.
Speaker 2There's a lot. There's so much truth in what you were saying. So much of our life, of our Christian life, involves death, Even when we forgive somebody else and somebody's hurt us and we think of the Lord's Prayer forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. Why is it so painful to forgive somebody else trespasses as we as we forgive those who trespass against us? And why does it? Why does it so painful to forgive somebody else? And, uh, the reason is because, well, when you forgive somebody else, then part of you has to die in the party that wants pound of flesh or retribution, or to use whatever they did against you as a means of controlling them or whatever is going on inside us. All that has to die and that hurts. That's a reason it's so painful to forgive somebody who sinned against us. That's just one example.
Speaker 2I mean I can think back to what I was talking about earlier when I blew up my life. Well, what had to die was my ego and my very selfish ambition, and all those sorts of things had to die and extremely painful, but that had to happen. God knew it had to happen and he just harnessed my own selfishness to speed that process along Fair enough to speed that process along, Fair enough. So yeah, and you know, it's not like when you get to the other side all of a sudden. Now you're perfect in that realm of your life, but you have learned a lot and one of the things you've learned is to be aware of when that thing, whatever it is, comes kind of creeping back into the light again. You realize, oh, I see you.
Speaker 3Yeah, I think that's a huge key, what you just said, realizing. I almost think of it as the revelation of the dichotomy of self, like when you break and come to an end. And then now it's like like when you break and come to an end, and then now it's like, oh, I didn't completely wash away, there is this little light of mine. And then there's like the lizard from CS Lewis' Great Divorce, and you're just like, oh, that's a lizard. And then you're not even ready to have the angel grab hold of it, like hold on, but the recognition, yeah.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, that's like growing self-awareness. Yeah, that's important. You know, I think that we can. We can easily dilute ourselves into thinking we're better than we are and I mean, that's that's all about. That's what self-righteousness is, right, you know, we have to hide the lizard, have to hide the, the dark side. Yeah, have to try and mute those wolves howling in the dark quarters of our soul and uh, and pretend we're, we're more righteous than we are and the more we are, you know, just kind of brutally honest about ourselves. Yes, yes, this is this is what I struggle against. This is the very dark, sinister part of me.
Speaker 2The more honest about that, the less power it has yeah because you know, evil, evil thrives when it's denied and it's allowed to have kind of full reign within us. But when it's confronted and known and confessed it loses half its power. Just in that alone.
Speaker 3Yeah, when you said we're not perfected, my impression was we are not perfected, but he is perfectly glorified as we are. I don't want to use the word perfectly, but like, deeply aware of our weakness, like it's almost as though our like if there's any lens that's less cracked, it would be the lens that reflects our weakness, like we're not perfected. But then there's a clarity on our inability, because I know the experience you're talking about to some degree in my own life of like all right, I can tell you the one person that I will never absolutely trust again, it's that dude in the mirror. Like, definitely, yeah, like he is the dude that I will not depend on.
Speaker 2That's very true, yeah. Yeah, I don't know if you guys are familiar with the Zoll family or with Mockingbird Ministries.
Speaker 3No.
Speaker 2But Dave Zoll is a friend of mine. He's head of Mockingbird Ministries. He's a very theologically astute Episcopalian. I've written some great books where theology and culture mix. That's what Lockheed Road Ministries does a lot of.
Speaker 2But his dad, whose name is Paul Zoll he's kind of a godfather of preaching grace, I guess you might call him Paul's got this great quote that goes something like this the lower our anthropology, the higher our Christology.
Speaker 2Which means that the lower our anthropology, that is to say the clearer view we have of who we are as human beings, sinful human beings, so the clearer understanding we have of the things we've been talking about the evil within us, our propensities toward weakness, the struggles we face with temptation, all of that.
Speaker 2So the lower our anthropology, then the higher our Christology, because the more we face with temptation, all of that, so the lower our anthropology, then the higher our Christology, because the more we realize our inability to please God on our own, to stand the straight and narrow, to keep the commandments, all of that, the deeper awareness we have of the weakness of self. Correlating to that then will be the higher view we have of Christ. Because, you know, the more I think I'm able to please God on my own, the less I need Jesus. But the more I realize I can't do it on my own, then the more I realize, oh, that's why we have Christ, because he, he doesn't, you know, do the 99% and then hand the 1% to me and here says here, chad you, you, you can do the rest, because I would totally screw up that 1%. Yeah, yeah, grateful that he does it all for me.
Journey Through the Old Testament
Speaker 1I love that. What we like to do at the end is do like a final thoughts and anything that you have that you want to like share with our audience. So if you're writing a new book, if you're doing whatever, so what? What would you like to share with our audience?
Speaker 2Chad, yeah, I'd be actually be happy to do that. So I don't know when you guys how, how, like, when you drop these episodes, but it'll probably be two weeks, two weeks.
Speaker 2Yeah, that'd be actually be just about right. So we're recording today, today's June 21st, on July 9th, I'm going to have a book that is released that day Awesome, it's on the pre-order stage right now. It's called Hitchhiking with Prophets A Ride Through the Salvation Story of the Old Testament. So what I did is I encounter people all the time who you know.
Speaker 2They'll say I just don't, I don't understand the old Testament or I don't get it. It's really weird, it's kind of scary, I don't know what to do with it. It's kind of like a jungle. You know the new Testament can feel like a park. You know there's the sidewalk, that's where you go. This is kind of laid out nicely. Yeah, the old testament is like where do you even go in? You know it's it's kind of a strange place.
Speaker 2So I wrote the book to give them kind of this, this map of the old testament, and the way it's set up is so. It's called hitchhiking with prophets. You kind of get in the passenger seat and you catch a ride with adam or with noah, with abraham or with with David or with any of these major characters, and that leads you through the story so that by the time you get to the end. The final chapter is when you get in and the driver's seat is Jesus himself. So the whole ride has been telling you the story of the Old Testament but getting you ready for the one toward whom the Old Testament is leading you.
Speaker 3So anyway, that's coming out July 9th, available however you like your books Hardcover, paperback, audio, kindle Please tell me it's written like did you actually write it in a story process where, like, hey, you're hitchhiking and Adam pulls up in a certain type of car and then, like Noah, noah pulls up in like a hatchback forties.
Speaker 2Oh man, I, I, I, I. I'm going to have to go back and rewrite the book now. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3I just need, like Jesus, to pull up in the optimist prime semi truck that would have been great that I just need, like Jesus, to pull up in the Optimus Prime semi-truck.
Speaker 2That would have been great, that would have been a great thing to include. No, they do each pull up. They don't have their own vehicles. But yeah, it's all set. Each chapter is kind of set up that way to where it's where you're at, this is who pulls up and this is you know kind of describe them, and then it's told in a I try and write it in as kind of a creative sort of way, not just kind of a stale, standard history this happened and that happened and this happened but in a way that the draws the reader in, keeps them, you know, keeps it exciting, keeps it relevant.
Speaker 1So that by the time you get to the end.
Speaker 2By the time you get to the end, you'll be like this is a very awesome story.
Speaker 3I need to actually read the thing itself and you know that's incredible. I'm just thinking like noah pulls up in the, in the car uh, german tank car that like can go across a sea, like jonah pulls up and in something that one you can find a making model called a whale.
Speaker 2Like dude, right now I'm being cheesy whenever you do that, I gotta rewrite the book now. No, no, no, no, don't worry about it.
Speaker 3Whenever you do like a video like blurb of it. They get the guys from bible project be like I have a book I just need you guys to do like a really cool video of. I just see all that would be awesome All right.
Speaker 2Yeah, I'm done. I wish I had the book here. I'd just hold it up at least for you guys to be able to see it. I don't know if you would tell it in the video yeah, sweet We've got a guy who's hitchhiking there. It's a really cool cover design, definitely send it to us.
Speaker 2Yeah, I'll do that, that, you can uh put it out there. But yeah, if you I, I am the reader, if you're I, I love listening to books, I'm a big guy. So if you like to listen to your books, uh, it's available that way too.
Speaker 3So that's really exciting. I'm excited to listen to it made my first audiobook today.
Speaker 1It's a nightmare and a half. So yeah, I had to sit here for five hours, if he looks zomp.
Speaker 3It's because he read an audiobook today it's a whole thing, dude.
Speaker 1Thanks for listening to the across the counter podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please rate us five stars wherever you got this podcast. Thanks, y'all.