Art School Confidential: An Artist's Evolution

In this episode of Lattes & Art, we look at the idea of graduate art school with our special guest, Roston Johnson. We'll explore what graduate programs can offer artists, the benefits and challenges of advanced art education, and how these experiences shape one's artistic journey. Roston shares his personal insights on navigating the academic art world, discussing the value of mentorship, critique, and the unique opportunities that arise from being immersed in a creative community. Whether you're considering grad school or simply curious about its impact on artists, this episode offers a candid look at the highs and lows of pursuing higher education in the arts.

Guest: Roston Johnson
             @RostonLikeBoston
Photo Credit: James Erin de Jauregui
                         @dejauregui

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Transcript

00;00;08;12 - 00;00;44;18
James
Welcome to Lattes & Art, the podcast where we take a look at the world of art, creativity and inspiration. Presented by J-Squared Atelier. I'm your host, James William Moore, and today we're exploring the intriguing idea of art education. Returning to visit with us is Ruston Johnson, an artist and educator with experience in navigating academia. Roston's journey through art school and graduate studies has given him a unique perspective on the value of formal education for artists.

00;00;44;20 - 00;01;17;05
James
His artwork transforms the mundane through painting and other media, and is notable for its subversive, contradictory, and experimental qualities. In today's episode, we'll be discussing the theme of Art School Confidential. What does grad school truly offer for aspiring artists? Is it a place to hone your craft, network with peers, and gain critical feedback from seasoned professionals? Or is it just merely a stepping stone in an artist's journey?

00;01;17;08 - 00;01;46;06
James
We'll dive into the realities of art school, the opportunities it presents, and whether it's the right path for everyone pursuing a career in the arts. So grab your extra large double shot vanilla latte and join us as we explore the benefits and challenges of art school with Roston on Lattes & Art. Today I'm lucky enough to have Roston back with me, and today we're going to talk about Art School Confidential.

00;01;46;06 - 00;02;06;07
James
The artist's evolution since Roston and I both had a chance to do grad school together at San Jose State. I thought it was a good thing to kind of, in case anyone's considering this or wonder what the hell it's like. I thought that Rasta and I were the good ones to kind of go after this. So thanks again for being back with me, Roston. I appreciate it.

00;02;06;10 - 00;02;07;07
Roston
Thanks for having me.

00;02;07;09 - 00;02;12;29
James
Let's just jump right into this before grad school. What was your passion for art.

00;02;12;29 - 00;02;45;09
Roston
Before grad school? I was doing a lot of drawing. Cartooning. Drawing was was the first excessive BL medium, that I had. I really hadn't done much painting before. I, I only started oil painting when I was 25, and I started the masters program when I was 26. So. Just to give you an idea. But I had done a bit of watercolor work from the time I learned how to do that in high school.

00;02;45;09 - 00;03;01;09
Roston
So 10th grade, I guess 15 or 16 years old to the present. So I have a lot more watercolor experience and I guess a little bit of, acrylic experience kind of in that realm too. But long before I started oil painting.

00;03;01;11 - 00;03;06;25
James
So, so the experience of art school your undergrad was in what.

00;03;06;25 - 00;03;13;02
Roston
My, my undergrad, I studied graphic communication, in my undergrad.

00;03;13;05 - 00;03;16;09
James
So art didn't play a part of that.

00;03;16;11 - 00;03;38;10
Roston
Yeah. Not in not in the traditional sense. I wasn't an art major, I didn't do I wasn't a fine art student, but I did take a intro to art class. I took a beginning drawing class when I was in college because it was about the middle of college, I think second or third year of college when I saw it.

00;03;38;13 - 00;03;58;15
Roston
Hey, you know, I really like art. I wonder if I could double major or minor in it, that kind of thing. But it was already kind of too late to. And I couldn't switch my major. Because, it's we know how difficult it is to do that at schools that make you declare a major when you enter, like like Cal Poly.

00;03;58;18 - 00;04;08;07
Roston
It was just kind of too late to to do fine art, because I was already so far along in my, my major, it was kind of too late to to make that change.

00;04;08;08 - 00;04;11;13
James
The experience of art school. So you were so.

00;04;11;13 - 00;04;38;12
Roston
So graphic communication, right? Right. So, I was not a fine art major. Graphic communication is it's just kind of a fancy way of saying that it was a hybrid major that incorporated elements of graphic design, of industrial printing techniques, lithography, lexicography, gravure printing, some specialty printing, like, screen printing. I didn't really get so much into screen printing.

00;04;38;12 - 00;04;55;04
Roston
I didn't even take a class in screen printing until, grad school at at Sdsu. I knew that there were other students at the time when I was in graphic communication at at Cal Poly, who did screen printing and pad printing and stuff like that. Other methods.

00;04;55;04 - 00;05;09;02
James
So when you got to grad school, you already had skills. Clearly. Skittles skills. Yeah, we were skills. Go figure. You chose to do grad school. Why?

00;05;09;03 - 00;05;31;09
Roston
To make up for all the lack of art that I. That I didn't have in my, undergrad, I realized, at a certain point, that which hadn't been possible when I was younger, like I said before, I didn't realize that it was possible to make a career in art until later on, closer to when I had first entered grad school.

00;05;31;15 - 00;05;58;29
Roston
I would, after I graduated from Cal Poly Graphic Communication. I started working as para educator, as a instructional assistant at my former high school, my alma mater. So a lot of the same teachers were working there, you know, younger siblings of students that I went to school with. And it's a small town. So you can you were now you I was known I was already a known quantity at that point, which was good and bad.

00;05;58;29 - 00;06;23;01
Roston
You know, I feel like I could, in a way, kind of go back and think some of the teachers that really impacted me. But then I was also met with some apologies to because, you know, I didn't I wasn't always, you know, the, the Roston that you see before you today. So but I worked as an I worked as an instructional assistant in math classes and in art classes.

00;06;23;01 - 00;06;51;15
Roston
And it was around that time that I realized that I wanted to go into teaching, that I really I loved art, and it made the prospect of having some kind of a career in art possible. When I learned about the master's program. And so I realized, okay, I'm going to need a master's of fine art, not just a master's in art, in order to teach a college level art class in art.

00;06;51;15 - 00;07;14;05
Roston
And teaching is the thing that I want to do, and I contemplated doing it at the high school level. I thought, well, maybe I could make it as a high school art teacher. But after working as an instructional assistant for a few years, I realized that that wasn't really the environment that I wanted to be in or the clientele that I necessarily wanted to work with.

00;07;14;05 - 00;07;35;23
Roston
I saw that there were a lot of behavioral problems and let's say obstacles to learning, like cell phones and EarPods, AirPods, you know, that, that kind of thing. Laptops in some cases. And I and I thought, well, they're just going to throw in like any student who needs an elective into an art class, I don't necessarily want to be there.

00;07;35;23 - 00;07;59;19
Roston
So I realized that I was more interested in, teaching the subject than dealing with, you know, behavioral issues in the classroom, discipline and so forth. I wasn't into that. I knew I wanted to be there for the students who wanted to be there, who wanted to learn, and that I could spend time, you know, teaching the subject rather than dealing with discipline.

00;07;59;21 - 00;08;21;21
James
It's interesting that you you knew that if teaching at college level, at a higher educated level, it was going to take that MFA. And when I started my educational path, I had no clue that I would end up in a master's program because I'm just like, oh, I'll just get a degree because my background wasn't anything about education.

00;08;21;21 - 00;08;46;26
James
And so now suddenly I'm in the midst of this and some of the professors and advisors I was working with in my undergrad were saying, you need to go do the program. And I always think it's interesting how one that makes that recommendation justifies that grad school is what it's supposed to be, and I want to put a pin in that because we'll come back to that with art school.

00;08;46;26 - 00;08;48;18
James
There's a structure.

00;08;48;20 - 00;08;49;13
Roston
Yes.

00;08;49;16 - 00;08;53;13
James
Right. How did that structure help you learn?

00;08;53;13 - 00;09;19;07
Roston
I guess it started when I was in community college at a point, I realized that I was going to have to go back to community college, take community college art classes, and be a full time art student to get the skills and the experience that I needed to even apply for the master's program. It was to learn all of the stuff that I had missed out on when I was an undergrad at Cal Poly.

00;09;19;14 - 00;09;41;08
Roston
I realized at some point, you know, there's really no way around it. I kind of have to take art classes if I'm going to go into higher education in art, I think I think having multiple classes, you know, taking an art history class while you're taking a drawing class, while you're taking a sculpture class, while you're taking a portfolio class.

00;09;41;13 - 00;10;08;15
Roston
There's a lot of cross-pollination that happens when you're taking all of those classes at one time with a lot of the same people in a small department where everyone kind of knows everyone and they're all wanting you to succeed, they want to help you out. So that was exactly the environment that I was in, and that ended up helping me so much prepare me for, what I needed for grad school.

00;10;08;16 - 00;10;34;10
James
How did that structure change? Because, you know, you and I both came through community college, right? We. You were at Cal Poly? I actually was at San Jose State for my undergrad. How how did that sort of structure in the Cal or not Cal Poly that your your community college experience. Right. How did that structure change when you got into the grad program?

00;10;34;10 - 00;10;36;21
James
Was there a difference in the structure?

00;10;36;24 - 00;11;07;24
Roston
I think, yeah, I would say there was, because when I was in community college, it was evident that I had already had art experience. And I think in a way, I was kind of teaching, sort of helping out some of the students that were around me because of other experiences that I had had. Some of them had already taken, you know, other art classes as well, just say at the community college level.

00;11;07;26 - 00;11;34;28
Roston
But there were still some things, some knowledge that I had. I think that made me sort of a mentor to other people. But then when I got to San Jose State for the master's program, it was like I was on the bottom rung again, you know? So I went from being a student, but also a mentor to being basically just a student and and very receptive to anything that was, thrown my way.

00;11;35;01 - 00;11;38;08
James
Part of the art school experience as critiques.

00;11;38;11 - 00;11;38;26
Roston
Yeah.

00;11;38;26 - 00;12;06;16
James
And you talked about cross pollination when you went back, you had finished your undergrad. You'd gone back to community college to get these art classes and get exposure to all of that and start to bring those tools there. Right. But when you get to grad school, it's typically about those critiques. Right? And because you were cross-pollinating, how does that play in that critique.

00;12;06;20 - 00;12;08;24
Roston
In grad school or.

00;12;08;26 - 00;12;24;28
James
In grad school? So you've got you've got all this information that you are bringing to the table right? Because that's what we're supposed to do in grad school. We have we we have had experiences right now here. But there's that critique component, right?

00;12;25;04 - 00;12;51;06
Roston
I think I see what you're getting at. My first grad school critique was an interdisciplinary critique, and I was there. It was online because this was during Covid. This was fall 2020. So we were online. I had only I hadn't even set foot on San Jose State's campus. I was living in, San Luis Obispo County full time at that point.

00;12;51;06 - 00;13;17;18
Roston
So I really the only contact I ever had with people at that point was, was virtual. And that was my first exposure to grad school. And so I knew that I was with other artists who had already had experience, who had already been doing art far longer than me, who had been actual art students in their undergrad. And so I came in very receptive of and willing to just listen to other people.

00;13;17;25 - 00;13;42;08
Roston
And so initially, I didn't feel like I had a whole lot to contribute. But as as things kind of went on, I did realize that I had some things that I could share based on my experience, which was different than other people in the grad program, because I wasn't an art major in my undergrad, because I had different, say, extracurricular activities.

00;13;42;08 - 00;14;08;15
Roston
When I was a kid, played sports, I was in clubs, I was in the band. I had different life experience, I guess, which, you know, I guess kind of contributes to my overall picture, what I could contribute, I guess. But it was interesting because my instructor, Craig Hobbs, he was my first critique instructor, and he made the statement first thing when we came in that, you know, you've all been accepted into the master's program.

00;14;08;15 - 00;14;34;08
Roston
And so at this point, we are all now peers and equal. So, you know, what I have to contribute is just as valuable as what you have to contribute in this environment, because we're all we're essentially all artists at the same level. To him. I think the case that to me, it felt like the case he was making was that even though, I'm an artist, I'm an older artist, I'm a professor with more experience.

00;14;34;08 - 00;14;56;14
Roston
We're still all peers. And I thought that was really interesting because I didn't think it was going to be like that coming into the grad program. No one had ever prepared me for that or put it to me that way before, but it did kind of help to break the ice a little bit and and give me the impression that it was okay to give advice and to share my experiences with the group.

00;14;56;16 - 00;15;05;15
Roston
I thank him for for putting it that way for for doing that. That was that was a big service to me and made it okay to to share.

00;15;05;22 - 00;15;21;01
James
How was that beneficial for you as an artist hearing these voices of sculptors and digital media people and even someone like me that comes with photo, how does that change what you're hearing?

00;15;21;07 - 00;16;04;14
Roston
I'm really thankful for that. Because I was getting kind of feedback that I, you know, hadn't considered because they were coming from different specialties, different different fields. So even though we were all artists and, you know, could have some common threads in a general sense, it was interesting. Some of the ideas that were brought to the table by Ceramicists, by people who work with, metal and do casting, people who work with fabric and textiles, people who are all lens based, people who do photo and video and projection, people who are digital media artists and even and even from other painters in and printmakers.

00;16;04;19 - 00;16;45;24
Roston
Printmaking was something that I hadn't really been exposed to until college also, but it was especially interesting, I think, to hear from other painters, at least in the beginning, because I hadn't heard a lot of painting specific advice at that level at the grad school level from other artists. So having someone like, Oscar Lopez, in my interdisciplinary critique, my first critique was mind blowing because he was a transfer student from the San Francisco Art Institute, SFI, and they had closed during Covid and San Jose State picked him up.

00;16;45;24 - 00;17;16;12
Roston
So he was able to transfer from S.F. to SJS you to complete his grad school program. And so he had a lot of pain and experience and just general art experience that was super valuable to the to the interdisciplinary critique that I wouldn't have been exposed to otherwise. In answer to your question, I find it was valuable from people within my major in painting, drawing, printmaking, as well as those from outside.

00;17;16;12 - 00;17;30;27
Roston
But I would say that the ones who are outside of, painting, who specialized in other pursuits, they got me thinking about my specialty in, in different ways, which was really.

00;17;30;27 - 00;17;54;22
James
Valuable. Some art school grad programs get a rap that you have to be creating art in the vision that that school has. This isn't the case across the board. Do you feel your experience in the program tried to shove your work into a circle that was acceptable for that program?

00;17;54;25 - 00;18;18;21
Roston
I think in my case, I felt like this program gave me a lot of freedom to make the kind of work that I was interested in. Not all of it was received positively, but I think that had more to do with how I sort of rationalized my work and and communicated my ideas to the group, and maybe in how I presented the work too.

00;18;18;21 - 00;18;37;02
Roston
I'm not sure, but as far as like creating the actual work, I didn't really feel too much hindrance or too much pushback, you know, because I could I could make the work first and then show it to people, and then they could be like, yay or nay, or this is cool, or this bullshit.

00;18;37;02 - 00;18;43;18
James
So do you feel that your skill sets then, that your practice grew coming through that process?

00;18;43;18 - 00;18;49;15
Roston
I think so. Well, yeah, I think it taught me some things in how it was received or.

00;18;49;19 - 00;19;08;08
James
Well, no, just you. You is your own practice because the flip side of that gets into, you know, do you think that your voice as an artist was changed, manipulated or allowed to be your voice? Because those kind of are two separate things.

00;19;08;15 - 00;19;46;27
Roston
Yeah, I, I think I see what you mean because I think I started to use more art school vocabulary after listening to how other people would describe their work or, or the work of others. Being in critique kind of teaches you some of that vocabulary. I felt like I learned a lot of that vocabulary when I was in community college, so that I would be prepared for grad school, but once I got to grad school, it's like you, you sort of learn a whole new set of vocabulary beyond what you learn in community college, at least in my case.

00;19;46;27 - 00;20;05;17
Roston
Yeah, I think that did contribute a bit to the way I would describe my work. I don't think I talk the same way now that I did when I was 26. I'm 30 years old now. It took me four years to complete grad school. So I mean that that kind of says something right there. But there were other factors involved.

00;20;05;17 - 00;20;16;01
Roston
Point is, I think that art school vocabulary and the way that people talked about art did influence the way that I would talk about art.

00;20;16;02 - 00;20;23;13
James
Do you think that that vocabulary can eliminate some of the audience from what it is you're saying?

00;20;23;13 - 00;20;53;16
Roston
Yeah, because I, yeah, because I definitely would use different vocabulary to describe my work, to say another master student than I would to an even an undergrad student. And I sure as hell wouldn't use the same language that I would use in art school to describe something to someone who was a person who didn't have a background in art, to the general public, to my old high school friends, I could not use the same language to describe what I'm doing.

00;20;53;22 - 00;21;13;10
James
Well, and I think I'm going to want to have you come back and chat with me another time so that we don't. I don't want to beat this idea, all right? I don't want to be sounding like I'm taking a club to this idea of art school. Right? But there's an elite ism that happens that eliminates a big part of the population.

00;21;13;10 - 00;21;17;13
James
Yeah, with art, because of the language that gets used.

00;21;17;15 - 00;21;23;09
Roston
Right. And I do have a bit to say about that topic. So I could I could probably come back to that.

00;21;23;13 - 00;21;32;18
James
Yeah, we'll come back to that one. Yeah. They're, they're, you know, grad school. They call us the cohort like we are of this group of people.

00;21;32;19 - 00;21;33;20
Roston
Right.

00;21;33;22 - 00;21;56;14
James
Talk to me about that idea, what it meant to you and how from a social aspect, because you and I started when Covid was going on. Right. So we were all virtual, right? How was that different to after we were able to come back? How does that play into this idea of a cohort, and what does it do socially for us?

00;21;56;15 - 00;22;22;07
Roston
Yeah, like I said earlier, my my first exposure to grad school to art school master's program, Sdsu was, virtual. My first three semesters were online. I, like I said, I hadn't even set foot on campus. I think it was the end of my third semester that I came to Sdsu for the first time. That's when I first met you, James, and you kind of showed me around campus.

00;22;22;07 - 00;23;01;11
Roston
You showed me the studio spaces and inside some of the classrooms, I think just kind of the the general layout and, and where things were, it was such a joy to be able to connect with people that I had only previously seen and interacted with online. But I was so thankful for maybe the week before school had started that I saw more people were starting to come to campus, and that's when I had first met people from my grad program like Michael Fava, Rosa and Sydney Brown and Heather Brown, and who aren't related.

00;23;01;13 - 00;23;18;21
Roston
And, and Sean O'Dell and Adam Trevor Decker and Jacqueline Solorio and other people from our cohort. I was so happy to finally be able to meet these people when I had only previously seen them as a little screen on my laptop.

00;23;18;21 - 00;23;39;01
James
I come out of a world of business. I've got that weird resume that I didn't do art for a really long time, and when you work as an executive and whatnot, they're always telling you, you got to network, you got to network. And then I get into grad school and I'm realizing that artists don't operate like business people.

00;23;39;01 - 00;23;59;06
James
It's not a mindset or a skills or a culture that they're introduced to, but they tell us we're supposed to network as artists, we're supposed to network. Talk to me about how that idea of networking works for you based on the cohort networking.

00;23;59;06 - 00;24;25;03
Roston
For me, I mean, it sounds kind of like it. It sounds too, like almost sterile to say, like networking, you know, because I to me, I'm more interested in just getting to know people like that's been more of my interest and my prerogative is like, hey, I'm just excited to be here and we're not online anymore. And like, I can fucking talk to people, face to face like, this is fucking great.

00;24;25;06 - 00;24;40;11
Roston
So more important than networking, I was just excited to meet other artists and to have conversations with them because I knew that that's where the gold was, and that's what I was clearly not getting from my online school experience.

00;24;40;11 - 00;24;42;04
James
So then sticking to networking.

00;24;42;07 - 00;24;43;06
Roston
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00;24;43;06 - 00;25;08;17
James
You're now done with the program. Has those relationships you've built with all of these artists, right. All these amazing humans we had a chance to be next to in studios, and now suddenly we're all off on our own little adventures. Has there been anything that's been beneficial to you from a networking standpoint, and now that you're not in the program?

00;25;08;22 - 00;25;43;12
Roston
Oh, absolutely. The last month of my last semester of grad school, I had by that point sent out several applications to teach, community colleges. They weren't all in the in the Bay area, but I think a lot of them were. I applied to a couple other schools down south. It was great that I had networked with some people in the grad program, because I was able to use some of those names, some of those relationships in a professional capacity that helped me get other connections.

00;25;43;12 - 00;26;07;23
Roston
So I want to say jobs, but that hasn't exactly happened just yet. It will, so yeah, it was me knowing and befriending Michael. Father Groza from my cohort allowed me to list him as a reference for my application for College of the Sequoias in Visalia, and I was able to get an interview with them. I did the interview.

00;26;07;23 - 00;26;35;09
Roston
I did a teaching demonstrate. And and then later they wrote me back and said, congratulations, you've been accepted into our adjunct teaching pool. Absolutely. Connections like that have been beneficial for Larissa, usage from San Jose State, who now teaches at Aloni College in Fremont. I feel like knowing her and Oscar Lopez, who I think used to teach at Aloni, knowing those people, I think may have helped me get in at Aloni as well.

00;26;35;12 - 00;26;38;15
Roston
I'm also in the pool at at Aloni College.

00;26;38;17 - 00;27;09;01
James
One of the big things with art school in a grad sense is that critique piece. Sure. And we all know that sometimes critique does not always go as positive as we would like it to go. At one point, you know, I was told that my presentations were too perfected. And what does that actually mean? Right? And it's the type of thing you get this sort of feedback and positive or negative, you've got to process that.

00;27;09;01 - 00;27;22;29
James
And then, you know, you decide how you're going to use it in ourselves. How did you maneuver through that idea of critique? How did you build resilience to get through it.

00;27;23;01 - 00;27;27;11
Roston
Like all the, say, less than constructive criticism.

00;27;27;13 - 00;27;31;14
James
That the shitty stuff like that. Yeah, that's.

00;27;31;17 - 00;28;00;16
Roston
I'll let you decide if you want to keep this little anecdote in. But, there was a moment when I was I had an interdisciplinary critique, a big one, as part of the program at SJS, you have what's called Advancement to Candidacy, or RTC, and it's where you give a 10 to 15 minute presentation about your work, and then you are asked to field questions and comments regarding your work for a half hour afterwards.

00;28;00;16 - 00;28;31;14
Roston
And so it's a event that's attended by professors, instructors, grad students, art students. It's actually open to the general public, and it's meant to be a people call it a check in or a checkpoint, but I think it's really meant to be a way to kind of see how your ideas stand up in academic art to help prepare you for your thesis show and creating your, written thesis.

00;28;31;16 - 00;29;05;22
Roston
It's really it's just an opportunity to get public feedback. And I know that from others experience and my own experience that it isn't necessarily just that. And so there are individuals, I think that sometimes ask like a bullshit question or, you know, point out some flaw in your work that, you know, may be upsetting. And that did happen to me at one point by an individual who I felt kind of asked an unfair question because they misconstrued elements of my work at the time.

00;29;05;22 - 00;29;31;24
Roston
I was shocked afterwards. I was, kind of upset about it. I was kind of shaken by it. But later on I thought about it, and I realized that in a way that individual was kind of providing a service because they pointed out a blind spot in my work, a flaw in my work, or just a potential vulnerability that I hadn't myself seen.

00;29;31;24 - 00;29;59;12
Roston
I was unaware of it at the time. You know, as I mentioned before, I you know, I'm not trying to diss anyone. I don't want to disrespect anyone. And there was some element about my work that seemed like it could cause offense. And I had clarified after that, question was asked just that, that I'm not trying to offend anyone and I'm not trying to dis anyone, and that it was never my intention to do so.

00;29;59;14 - 00;30;23;08
Roston
That experience taught me that sometimes those sorts of questions that you're unprepared for can get asked, and you may or may not be prepared for them, but they're all experiences that that you can learn from. So as shitty as the experience was at the time, I think in a way it kind of did open my eyes to, you know, what's possible in a critique.

00;30;23;10 - 00;30;42;27
James
Well, it's interesting, any time we put our art out there, it can be received exactly how we meant it to be taken, or it can be misconstrued like they read an entirely different story into it than what our intention was. You know, even with my own work, if you meet me, it's really hard to miss that I'm gay.

00;30;42;27 - 00;31;14;23
James
And when my art gets labeled that I'm an LGBT artist, I'm like, am I? I mean, I know is I walk down the street. Yes. But is my art and yes, I use camp and all of these things that it's interesting, but I myself don't see it as that because I'm not telling necessarily my own story. I might be telling somebody else's and they may be gay.

00;31;14;23 - 00;31;41;03
James
They may not be that. I've had a curator that wrote of me being an LGBT artist, and I have to, like you did, take a step back. And do I become offended by this? Right? Or do I understand why they may have interpreted it that and fix it? Right? So yeah, I critiques and interests thing. Yeah. Post graduate we're both done.

00;31;41;09 - 00;31;41;28
James
Yeah.

00;31;42;00 - 00;31;42;29
Roston
All right.

00;31;43;02 - 00;31;53;19
James
Other than having a sheet of paper now that you've come through it, do you see the benefit that it's going to pay to you going into the future?

00;31;53;22 - 00;32;07;25
Roston
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. It would not have secured me my spots in the pools that I currently have. I'm not even on staff, but at least I'm in the pool.

00;32;07;27 - 00;32;29;12
James
Well, it's interesting because, like, my, my husband and I are going down this path of physically building a gallery, right? That's going to be educational space, showcase space, all of that sort of stuff. And one of the reasons that I was convinced that a grad program was right for me, yeah, is that it gives me credibility.

00;32;29;15 - 00;32;30;11
Roston
Absolutely.

00;32;30;11 - 00;32;55;05
James
So now, as a gallerist, as a curator, as an artist, yeah, we have that shingle that we can hang that I'm educated in this. Similar to what you're talking about, you're going after this ability to teach at a higher education level. Yes. And that sheet of paper gives you the ability to be in that realm.

00;32;55;06 - 00;33;25;23
Roston
Yes. Because you are automatically going to I think in most cases win out over any masters of Art student or anyone who possesses an Ma degree by having that middle letter, the MFA degree, it is considered a more rigorous, a more comprehensive program, and job seekers will take that into consideration during the hiring. Having a degree, I think, absolutely got me into the pools.

00;33;25;25 - 00;33;47;17
Roston
College of the sequoias and, Allen College in Fremont. And I knew that I needed to have an MFA degree in order to teach college art classes that was one of the main reasons that I joined the Masters of Fine Arts program. Why I wanted to pursue a masters in fine Art was because I knew that I wanted to teach college art classes.

00;33;47;17 - 00;34;03;05
James
One of the other things we have assignments that we're doing and, you know, we're we are endlessly creating art while we go through the program. What motivation do you have after school? What pushes us to keep making art once we're done?

00;34;03;07 - 00;34;33;09
Roston
What are the stakes? Well, I think, making art helps me to feel more grounded. And for me, it is kind of a process of of learning. And it's how I kind of record my experiences in a way. I think drawing and painting something that's in front of you, a still life, a person, a landscape, etc., etc., etc. it gives you a very unique relationship with that subject, with whatever's in front of you.

00;34;33;09 - 00;35;01;12
Roston
It's a really unique way of experiencing of of possessing that experience. Because it is it is an active thing for me. It's not it's not like, you know, oh, I'm just going to throw some paint around and like, see what happens at this point. I'm kind of beyond that. Honestly, it's a little insulting when people come up to me and they're like, oh yeah, I see you're still experimenting or oh yeah, you're still like, you know, kind of finding your way.

00;35;01;15 - 00;35;23;13
Roston
And it's like, you know, I have an MFA degree. I mean, why did I go to school for the last four years? Five years? For me, the stakes are much higher than that. But at the same time, I don't feel obligated to make art all the time. I think there are necessary breaks from art for me to be able to process.

00;35;23;20 - 00;35;47;02
Roston
And after a four year long adventure through, grad school and all the critiques and all of the, you know, writing and, and conversations that, that go on at the art academic level, I needed a break from all of that, just as a way to process and give me a chance to pick up other aspects of my life that I wasn't able to do while I was in school.

00;35;47;04 - 00;36;05;19
James
We're done. We finished. We are figuring out how to keep making art. Do you see yourself going after more learning experiences as a challenge, as an inspiration?

00;36;05;22 - 00;36;08;25
Roston
Going after more learning experiences.

00;36;08;28 - 00;36;16;02
James
Professional development, taking classes that might put you in a different media?

00;36;16;04 - 00;36;23;27
Roston
I see at this point I'm kind of burnt out on art classes for the time being.

00;36;23;29 - 00;36;46;26
Roston
Which is to say, I don't want to close that door completely because there's always a possibility that I might decide. I want to go back to school or at least take, say, community college art classes. A friend of mine, who is 74, going on 75 years old, continues to take community college art classes because he just wants to be there and paint.

00;36;47;03 - 00;37;09;21
Roston
He just wants to continue to make work. And he has been doing online art classes for the past 3 or 4 years. So he has a couple of different groups that he's a part of that allow him to keep making art and to have a sort of community. And I think that's important. I think it's good to have community after grad school.

00;37;09;23 - 00;37;48;16
Roston
I think what happens is you get your degree, you finish grad school, you leave and the doors close behind you, and it can get really quiet if you don't maintain those connections and stay involved in some sort of art ritual, I guess, as I mentioned, I've been taking kind of a long break from art since since grad school, but I think it was a necessary one that I needed to kind of process everything that happened, everything that I learned, and to kind of clarify where, where I want to go from here and what I want to do next.

00;37;48;18 - 00;38;18;00
Roston
I have a lot of ideas for art that I want to make, some things that will require more space, a studio space in order to make, which I don't have currently. But that's okay, because I can still make smaller things and I can I can keep drawing. I can keep doing smaller watercolor and gouache paintings. I can still make things, and I still can keep track of those ideas that will feed my creative outlet.

00;38;18;02 - 00;38;42;02
Roston
I think it is important to to have a sense of community in art, to have your little art group that you share, what you're making with other people to test ideas or just to kind of, you know, I guess, have have that camaraderie. You know, I think there is work that we make for ourselves that maybe is really personal, that you don't necessarily want to share with anyone.

00;38;42;02 - 00;39;05;27
Roston
But I think one big motivator can be your little art group that you have that you want to share some things with. So I have people that I am in contact with who I will exchange art and messages with, once a week. And that's just a way to keep in touch and to just share a love of art, because that's kind of the main topic.

00;39;06;04 - 00;39;21;05
Roston
There are other artists I know that get together with a critique group once a month, and that's kind of a way for them to stay connected and to continue making art and to have, higher level of, of art conversation.

00;39;21;11 - 00;39;33;16
James
Is wrap this up. Yeah. If you had someone coming to you asking advice about grad school, what could you impart on them to help them decide if it's right or wrong for them?

00;39;33;21 - 00;39;58;02
Roston
I would say you don't need an MFA or an MFA degree to do what you want necessarily. An art. I think it depends on what you're trying to accomplish, what you want to do with that degree. I knew that I wanted to teach art at the college level, so I most certainly needed to go to school, to grad school to get my Masters of Fine Art degree.

00;39;58;09 - 00;40;19;28
Roston
That was a necessity. If you want to have a career as an artist, you don't necessarily have to have a master of Fine Arts degree, but I think it does open doors for you. It can open doors for you to have that sense of community that grad school in art provides. I think to get a degree it will give you more opportunities.

00;40;20;00 - 00;40;26;23
James
Roston, thank you so much. I appreciate you taking the time and having this conversation with me about art school, and we'll talk.

00;40;26;23 - 00;40;28;21
Roston
Soon. Thanks for having me.

00;40;28;24 - 00;41;03;17
James
Thank you for joining us today on Lattes & Art, presented by J. Square d'Italia. I hope you enjoyed the conversation into the world of art education with our guest, Roston Johnson. We've explored the ins and outs of graduate school for artists, discussing its potential to shape an artist's journey, provide valuable experiences, and open doors to new opportunities. If you found today's conversation inspiring or insightful, please consider subscribing to our podcasts so you never miss an episode.

00;41;03;19 - 00;41;31;29
James
Don't forget to rate and reviews on your favorite podcast platform. Your feedback helps us continue bringing you engaging discussions and amazing guests from the art world. A huge thanks to Roston for sharing his experiences in shedding light on the realities of pursuing an advanced degree in the arts. If you wish to follow Roston's artistic journey, you can find him on Instagram at Roston.

00;41;31;29 - 00;41;57;24
James
Like Boston, if you're considering art school or have your own experiences to share, we'd love to hear from you. Connect with us on social media or send us an email with your thoughts and stories. Watch for new episodes semi monthly. Until then, keep creating, stay curious and remember every cup of coffee and every brushstroke can lead to a masterpiece.

00;41;57;27 - 00;42;02;29
James
I'm James really and more. And this has been Lattes & Art. See you next time.