Banksy Breakdown: Hype or High Art?

This episode takes a critical look at Banksy's latest works around London, sparking a debate about the very nature of graffiti art. Is Banksy’s Street art just a form of clever vandalism, or does it deserve to be classified alongside traditional fine art? We’ll explore the evolving perceptions of street art and its acceptance (or rejection) by the mainstream art world. we’ll question whether Banksy’s rise to fame is a result of his artistic genius or simply clever marketing and media hype. This episode aims to unravel the complexities of what constitutes art today and whether Banksy’s work has a lasting impact or is just a fleeting trend.

To find out more about Laasha Young's work, you can check it out here:
Website: https://www.laamshayoung.net/ 
Instagram: @younglaamsha

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Transcript

00;00;01;08 - 00;00;32;28
James
Welcome to Lattes & Art, presented by J-Squared Atelier, the podcast where we brew up conversation about art, creativity and everything in between. I'm your host, James William Moore. Get ready for today's episode, Banksy Breakdown, with our special guest the multifaceted artist Laamsha Young. Today, we dive into Banksy's enigmatic works, explore the stories behind his art, and debate whether his pieces are playful statements or profound messages.

00;00;33;00 - 00;00;56;06
James
Laamie’s work has graced the pages of Vogue and Women's Health and adorn the cast of Pretty Little Liars. Her work has been showcased in high end boutiques and worn by celebrities like Helene Bonham Carter and Melissa Etheridge. Today, she'll be joining me and discussing the intersection of fine art and street art. Now let's jump into today's episode.

00;00;56;08 - 00;01;03;10
James
I have the thrill to get to have a conversation with one of my best buds. Mommy, mommy, thank you so much for joining me today.

00;01;03;11 - 00;01;06;13
Laamsha (Laamie)
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so delighted. Thank you.

00;01;06;15 - 00;01;23;17
James
Today you and I are going to kind of dive into Banksy, and I know that Banksy can be kind of controversial for some and for others, they just think he's the best thing that ever happened. But what's your initial thoughts on Banksy's work itself?

00;01;23;18 - 00;01;40;27
Laamsha (Laamie)
Yeah, right. So so I'm not a fan, to be honest of the esthetic. I think it had a moment and I understand, I understand this sort of outreach idea and the outreach potential that he has, but I think it's it's problematic. So in a nutshell, that's that's my feeling.

00;01;40;27 - 00;01;44;18
James
Yeah. Problematic. In what sort of way?

00;01;44;20 - 00;02;08;21
Laamsha (Laamie)
Well, I feel like it sort of cashes in on the idea. You know, I think the whole idea of the hidden identity, I think that's kind of it's an avoidance technique. My favorite book, The Brothers Karamazov, a Dostoyevsky book. There's a passage in a famous passage and he talks about miracle, mystery and authority. And that's how we sort of approach religion, and that's how that's where the power comes from, when you're sort of giving a message.

00;02;08;21 - 00;02;23;15
Laamsha (Laamie)
And I think that Banksy's capitalized on that. If we knew who he was, there would be no mystery. And I think that would the not knowing who this person is is a huge part of their artwork. And it's like, like we were saying earlier, it's performative in a lot of ways. So yeah, with.

00;02;23;15 - 00;02;30;14
James
That said, what you called out, do you feel that his work could be seen as fine art?

00;02;30;16 - 00;02;53;26
Laamsha (Laamie)
Okay, so I think yes, I do, but I also think that this is where I feel like he's really successful in that fine art is often really removed from what people can understand. And there's a sort of barrier to, you know, fine art. Like if you understand it, then it's not fine art. And I think he does a really good job of balancing on that precipice between I think it is fine art.

00;02;53;26 - 00;02;55;28
Laamsha (Laamie)
I think it can be. Yes, oddly. Well.

00;02;55;28 - 00;03;13;20
James
And you're touching on something about this accessibility to art. And he is a street artist. He goes and does graffiti. He does these beautiful things that are out in the world and aren't necessarily in the realm of the museum.

00;03;13;21 - 00;03;14;25
Laamsha (Laamie)
Yes. Right.

00;03;14;28 - 00;03;22;07
James
And do you think that that is cause for him to have more popularity because he's accessible?

00;03;22;07 - 00;03;45;03
Laamsha (Laamie)
Oh, yes. Absolutely. I think museums are really inaccessible. I think museums are the, you know, the famous white cube. Sometimes even the, admission price is more than people can afford. So yes, absolutely. Like that feels like it feels like when I say he's problematic, it's not to say that he's not incredibly successful, that it's not a brilliant campaign to address these issues in art.

00;03;45;03 - 00;03;54;08
James
Well, and you said successful, but in reality, is he really making the money off of his artworks when they're sold?

00;03;54;13 - 00;04;10;15
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right? Absolutely not from what I understand. Right. Which is like, yes. Which is the sort of, you know, very troubling. Right. So he's so and there is a podcast I was listening to earlier about him and where they said that he sells his art for 100 pounds, and then the gallery sells it for 100,000. And so who's making the money?

00;04;10;15 - 00;04;15;06
Laamsha (Laamie)
The people who have the money are purchasing this. And so it's not accessible.

00;04;15;06 - 00;04;44;23
James
So most recently back in August, Banksy took over the attention in London and he was dropping each day a new piece. And each one of them was a different animal. There were the monkeys and the mountain goat and the, rhino that was humping the park car. And there were all of these different animal pieces, and they were rather simplistic in that they were stenciled or felt like they were stenciled.

00;04;44;23 - 00;04;57;18
James
And do you think that that changes how people look at fine art, that it's so simplistic that just because of that, it can't be fine art?

00;04;57;20 - 00;05;03;22
Laamsha (Laamie)
You know, I have a lot of opinions and I'd be happy to share, but I'm curious what your thoughts are on that.

00;05;03;25 - 00;05;27;14
James
You mentioned how you find him problematic, and it's interesting for me that I find him, that he kind of culture jams the art world, and I like that I'm about breaking rules. And I think that Banksy does a really great job at breaking rules. I agree with you that I think if we knew his identity, his art wouldn't be as interesting.

00;05;27;17 - 00;05;41;13
James
But I don't think that changes the fact that just because something is simplistic, it can't be in that fine art category, and that it doesn't have to be hung in a gallery or museum to be considered fine art.

00;05;41;16 - 00;05;42;29
Laamsha (Laamie)
Totally. Do you like his work?

00;05;42;29 - 00;06;15;01
James
I like some of his work. I really loved this last set that he did with the Animals, because there is so much whimsy to it, and I'm drawn to that. There's something almost campy or kitschy that he was doing by making these pieces. I look at some of his other work, like the Disneyland knockoff, right? And I was like, okay, that's just over the top and ridiculous and starting to diverge into that, almost not able to be accessible to all.

00;06;15;02 - 00;06;17;07
Laamsha (Laamie)
Yes. Right. Yes.

00;06;17;09 - 00;06;23;11
James
And so I think in those sorts of moments I think he plays against himself.

00;06;23;14 - 00;06;25;13
Laamsha (Laamie)
Oh yeah I agree I like that.

00;06;25;16 - 00;06;38;07
James
He really does bring a spotlight to this idea that art can be in public. And that in and of itself means success.

00;06;38;09 - 00;06;41;01
Laamsha (Laamie)
Well yeah I see what you're saying.

00;06;41;03 - 00;06;52;05
James
And so you know from that standpoint I love his work. Right. Because I would like to feel art is more accessible than what we know it truly is.

00;06;52;08 - 00;07;14;10
Laamsha (Laamie)
Yeah. I agree when you, I mean just to turn it back on. You bet. When you encounter a museum or high art that that feels like wow who understands this. Who, who has the vocabulary to talk about this. Do you feel sort of excluded or put off or are you also in that realm because you're also a fine artist?

00;07;14;16 - 00;07;24;07
James
I think it's made me keenly aware. Of accessibility. His work being in the public makes it accessible.

00;07;24;09 - 00;07;25;17
Laamsha (Laamie)
Yes.

00;07;25;20 - 00;07;31;16
James
My work tends to be in galleries. I've had a couple of pieces that have been public works right.

00;07;31;16 - 00;07;32;25
Laamsha (Laamie)
In Barcelona. Yeah.

00;07;32;25 - 00;07;35;02
James
Barcelona, Amsterdam, here in San Jose.

00;07;35;03 - 00;07;35;26
Laamsha (Laamie)
Yes.

00;07;35;28 - 00;07;43;00
James
And when that happens everybody gets to see it. And there's something magical about that.

00;07;43;02 - 00;07;43;19
Laamsha (Laamie)
Yes.

00;07;43;19 - 00;08;04;29
James
But, you know, my work right now is not collected by museum. I am not one that I feel that has to happen for me to feel successful in that vein, I feel maybe I kind of align with Banksy's thinking in the realm of accessibility.

00;08;05;01 - 00;08;31;09
Laamsha (Laamie)
I hear you, I think, like what you're saying is that, it doesn't have to be collected by a museum, and it doesn't have to be holier than thou or really challenging to understand to be fine art, which which I love talking about this, and I love talking with you about it, because I feel like this is what Banksy does that's really successful is, the concepts are super simple, and I think I love that you really called out his even more simple.

00;08;31;09 - 00;08;50;22
Laamsha (Laamie)
That's just beautiful. Sort of funny, kind of whimsical, like you said. How long has it been since the art community has been able to accept something like that as fine art? Right. Like, we don't we don't. We talk about like, oh, it's, you know, oh, Joseph boy, it's like nobody understands him. And so he must be a fine artist, right?

00;08;50;22 - 00;09;11;29
Laamsha (Laamie)
Like which I like him. But I think that I think that, But but also, like, I also will admit fully that I'm not quite sure what it's about. Right. So, so, so we love that. I love the sort of allowing art the concept of art to be accessible as well as the actual art itself. I think that's really successful.

00;09;12;02 - 00;09;38;03
James
Well, in the institution. Right? We we go into a museum and we're looking at paintings and you called up Joseph boys, and you're looking at it going, I need to find a meaning. There needs to be some sort of inherent story or societal ill that I'm supposed to see in this art and, you know, then you have Banksy come along and drop these animals throughout London.

00;09;38;05 - 00;09;39;00
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right.

00;09;39;02 - 00;09;47;24
James
And it really caused a stir because I think we've been programed to find meaning in every single piece of art.

00;09;47;26 - 00;10;08;10
Laamsha (Laamie)
Well, yes. I mean, and this is like a historic precedent from the, you know, the, the history paintings of the right of the early 19th century. And, you know, it goes back to there's allegory is and, you know, I was reading, I was reading the oh my God, The Romance of the Rose. It's this 12th century medieval text, and everything is is metaphorical.

00;10;08;10 - 00;10;27;21
Laamsha (Laamie)
And so we come from them. I think probably particularly in Western culture, we come from this tradition of metaphor and of meaning and and the meaning. I think we like meaning best. If we don't quite get it at first glance. Right. So there is this thing with Banksy that, oh, I get it, he's holding a bomb, or he's throwing flowers or he's hanging from a window.

00;10;27;21 - 00;10;40;16
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right. Like there are these images that are instantly accessible, which is challenging in its own way and particularly challenging, I think, for people with, you know, art and art history backgrounds, because we've come to sort of I mean, I'm figuring this out as I say it, because.

00;10;40;18 - 00;10;41;04
Speaker 3
I, I think.

00;10;41;04 - 00;10;49;22
Laamsha (Laamie)
That, like, part of my my dislike of his work is coming from this sort of hierarchical history and this expectation.

00;10;49;22 - 00;10;58;19
James
Well, in, you know, London was all abuzz and it's like, what is he trying to tell us? What is he saying with the monkey and the mountain goat? Right.

00;10;58;19 - 00;10;59;16
Laamsha (Laamie)
Maybe nothing.

00;10;59;19 - 00;11;22;05
James
Right? Exactly right. And that's actually what happened. He came back and his official page on Instagram said that there is no meaning behind this. So even though you had this gorilla that's holding up the side of the tent, letting animals out at the zoo, right? Right. There was no inherent meaning other than he wanted to bring happiness.

00;11;22;05 - 00;11;31;20
Laamsha (Laamie)
Oh, right. Yes. Right. Which why isn't there a place for that? I get that, I mean, I, you know, I, we, I think we started this podcast thinking we might be arguing and maybe we're not going.

00;11;31;20 - 00;11;35;08
Speaker 3
To agree, but.

00;11;35;11 - 00;11;52;11
Laamsha (Laamie)
I don't know, maybe there's still time for that. But but yeah. No, I embrace that too. I mean, although I think, and this is back to your sort of original question, like I think, then how does it justify itself as fine art? It's his spray paint on the wall. What if what if your little your little brother.

00;11;52;11 - 00;12;01;23
Laamsha (Laamie)
You know what? If you're a 12 year old kid, you know, went and painted a monkey on the side of the wall, and it was pure love. Just happiness. Is that art? Is that the same?

00;12;01;23 - 00;12;15;09
James
Well, in, you know, we're taught that the artist gets to decide what is art interesting. And that goes back to Marcel Duchamp. Telling us that a urinal right. Was art.

00;12;15;10 - 00;12;16;12
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right. Love him.

00;12;16;12 - 00;12;40;29
James
And yes, this idea that many of us as artists don't feel that we are artists for whatever reason, is it because our art is not being accepted? Is it because we're in our own heads? There's so many things we can unpack in that moment about that idea, right? But then along comes Banksy.

00;12;41;02 - 00;12;58;07
Laamsha (Laamie)
Yes. Okay. Okay. This is. Yes. Right. I mean, and I think this is my sort of problem with him, which is that so, you know, recently at the AMA, there was a little kid and he, there was some pencils as part of some display. And the kid took a pencil and started drawing on the wall. It was horrible.

00;12;58;07 - 00;13;17;02
Laamsha (Laamie)
Like there was a there was an uproar. So like, why is that not just as valuable as Banksy? It's sort of it's sort of irreverent. It's sort of pokes fun at the institution. You know, it's creative, it's spontaneous. So the kid, like, they had to erase it. It wasn't, you know, it's not valuable. So what's the difference here?

00;13;17;02 - 00;13;39;21
James
And the institution. Right. We use that word a lot. And I know I'm quite anti institution and I try not to paint a picture that sways people into that realm. But when something is so wrapped up in itself. And is too worried about things that it forgets where it came from. Right. Which was having a urinal.

00;13;39;26 - 00;13;40;08
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right.

00;13;40;15 - 00;13;41;24
James
It's right in a gallery.

00;13;41;24 - 00;13;42;18
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right. Yes. Right.

00;13;42;18 - 00;14;04;29
James
You have artwork that's from street artists. You have photographers which photography fought for a very long time, to be exact. Right? That's right. Fine art. We run into this thing that suddenly this guy comes along with a spray paint can and a stencil. And he has captured the attention of the world and the art world.

00;14;04;29 - 00;14;24;21
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right. But it's cult of personality too, right. Like he's not really a great artist and he's not really brilliant. And his ideas aren't really groundbreaking you know. So so what is it about him like why why does he hold this coveted place in our hearts when. Yeah, people are spray painting on shit all the time.

00;14;24;24 - 00;14;32;03
James
Now, how much of it do you think that people are afraid to say that I don't like Banksy? Because you'll be in the in popular crowd? You're one of.

00;14;32;03 - 00;14;33;03
Speaker 3
Them saying if you.

00;14;33;03 - 00;14;33;17
James
Don't like.

00;14;33;22 - 00;14;38;19
Laamsha (Laamie)
I'm always in the unpopular crowd. That's fine, but. Right, right, right.

00;14;38;19 - 00;14;47;02
James
We see fashion, we see right. We see all of these different things, and people glom on to that. Right? Because they want to be a part of the end.

00;14;47;02 - 00;15;04;27
Laamsha (Laamie)
Yes, of course. And and it's accessible like his work is super accessible, like, which is the point of it. Right? I get that, but I think that the accessibility sort of pushes you down the road towards feeling like you're part of this in-crowd. And I think if everybody's in the in-crowd, what's the in crowd?

00;15;04;27 - 00;15;05;29
Speaker 3
Right.

00;15;06;01 - 00;15;07;17
James
Well, and who's deciding the end and.

00;15;07;17 - 00;15;18;27
Laamsha (Laamie)
Who's deciding and and where is the money? You know, follow the money. That's like the old thing to who's who's making money on this work. It's not Banksy as we know. Right? Who are we really behind? Who are we really backing at this point?

00;15;18;27 - 00;15;29;07
James
Right. Well, you know, it's that idea. Do I buy it from the local artist? Right? Or do I buy it from somebody that's selling it at Etsy? Right?

00;15;29;07 - 00;15;38;07
Laamsha (Laamie)
Or not buy it at all? Or do I just see it and think, oh, that's wonderful and move on, right. That's not a part of the art discourse. And it's sort of.

00;15;38;10 - 00;15;55;27
James
Well, and it's interesting that you bring that up because with Banksy's work, right short of taking it off the wall, which it's painted onto a wall, of course, if it's on something that is not a wall, it's going to be really easy to run off with. But even in those instances, how does that get valued? Right?

00;15;55;27 - 00;16;10;08
Laamsha (Laamie)
I mean, really, to me that's the worst. To me, that's the worse this is here's the whole point of this piece, is that it's not owner and someone owns it and someone sells it, so. Right. And where's Banksy? Where does where's he on this? What's what's his what's his feeling about that?

00;16;10;10 - 00;16;13;07
James
Well, in May that be what his intention is.

00;16;13;09 - 00;16;18;14
Laamsha (Laamie)
Interesting. Interesting to sort of disrupt the, the I mean what like what what I don't.

00;16;18;21 - 00;16;24;24
James
Well I love you use the word disruption. He disrupted when his piece the balloon girl.

00;16;24;24 - 00;16;25;25
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right. The shredded piece.

00;16;25;25 - 00;16;29;08
James
The shredded piece. Yeah. And it sold for whatever it sold.

00;16;29;10 - 00;16;29;20
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right.

00;16;29;26 - 00;16;38;05
James
Which was ridiculous. Right. But the moment that the gavel hits, a shredder begins and the artwork gets ruined.

00;16;38;05 - 00;16;53;10
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right? But there's still more. Does it or does it like it's a really not a very epic piece of art anyway, right? A girl with a balloon. So. Right. So. So you're not buying it because you love the image of a girl with the balloon. You're buying it for the brand name, and then you're buying whatever is left of it.

00;16;53;10 - 00;17;03;04
Laamsha (Laamie)
Because it doesn't matter. Because, you know, for years and years that the actual piece itself doesn't matter. This is we've learned this from performance art. We've learned this from, you know.

00;17;03;04 - 00;17;04;01
James
Performance arts.

00;17;04;04 - 00;17;05;25
Laamsha (Laamie)
And installations. Yeah.

00;17;05;25 - 00;17;11;14
James
But it's an interesting comment because there's part of me, too, that feels that his work is performance.

00;17;11;20 - 00;17;22;00
Laamsha (Laamie)
Oh, absolutely. Okay. I see what you're saying. And from that in that realm, like if you put it in that context, like the intention is to see what happens when something is unknown and people want to own it. That's interesting. Right?

00;17;22;00 - 00;17;26;20
James
Yeah. And and you know, we don't see him painting it, right. But it appears.

00;17;26;20 - 00;17;27;07
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right.

00;17;27;09 - 00;17;34;27
James
Right. Then it's on a billboard or it's on a wall or, you know, and suddenly it's out in the world to be seen. And who owns it?

00;17;35;05 - 00;17;56;05
Laamsha (Laamie)
Who owns it. Right? Right. Honestly, it becomes part of the corporate machine at that point. And that's I feel like that's sort of where I'm stuck at, you know, like, yeah, who owns it, you know, how does it happen? Who gets it? How do they get it? How do they pry it off the wall? And then yeah, and then it's just another, you know, another piece, another commodity, frankly, which, you know, it might as well be a $1,000 pair of sneakers.

00;17;56;10 - 00;17;59;24
Laamsha (Laamie)
There's no more integrity in it at that point.

00;17;59;26 - 00;18;06;12
James
Well, and you use the word commodity, which the art world really has become a commodity.

00;18;06;19 - 00;18;07;21
Laamsha (Laamie)
Oh my God, people.

00;18;07;21 - 00;18;24;11
James
Aren't buying an art piece, right? Because they like it, right? They're buying it because it's an investment. Right. And I just listen to a podcast the other day from Art news that they talked about how the art markets are struggling and the and some of them.

00;18;24;11 - 00;18;24;29
Laamsha (Laamie)
Yes. Right.

00;18;24;29 - 00;18;37;15
James
That are going up for auction aren't selling. But we had this whole period during Covid that people were just buying whatever, right. And they weren't buying it because they liked it. They were buying it because they could say they owned a piece of art.

00;18;37;15 - 00;18;43;25
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right? And they needed to be part of a corporate structure, and they were stuck at home without their corporate structure or something. Yes. Yeah.

00;18;43;27 - 00;18;55;12
James
It's just I think Banksy really does open up a lot of conversations within the art world that we otherwise would not have had.

00;18;55;16 - 00;18;56;27
Laamsha (Laamie)
Yeah. Right.

00;18;56;29 - 00;19;10;28
James
I think he's lended credibility to the idea of street art. Right. And yes, those artists are in fact artists that they have a rightful place alongside other painters and sculptors.

00;19;10;28 - 00;19;28;21
Laamsha (Laamie)
And I don't think he's actually given that to them yet, though. I mean, I think he he's found that for himself. But, you know, you walk down the streets of San Jose and they're painting over the street art, you know, so are thousands of other anonymous street artists being recognized now. Not that I know of.

00;19;28;22 - 00;19;42;12
James
They may not be recognized, but I think they're given credibility. I think that in the art world themselves, someone's going, this person's talented. This is a beautiful allegory that they've painted underneath the bridge.

00;19;42;12 - 00;19;43;00
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right.

00;19;43;02 - 00;19;49;25
James
And then the city comes along or, you know, the public works come along and wipe that out.

00;19;49;25 - 00;19;50;12
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right.

00;19;50;12 - 00;19;58;12
James
That also is funny to me because cities. Want to have public art.

00;19;58;12 - 00;19;59;23
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right? Yes. Right.

00;19;59;23 - 00;20;04;20
James
And if someone comes along and pulls the Banksy it gets washed over.

00;20;04;24 - 00;20;27;19
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right. That's the thing. Right. Like so where is the corp. Right. Where is the who's paying for it and why and what, what gets produced and why and what gets saved and why. Right. There's. Yeah I guess Adobe in downtown San Jose is paying for tons of street art. There's 400 pieces of street art in, like sanctioned street art in San Jose paid for by local companies, which is wonderful, right?

00;20;27;21 - 00;20;44;03
James
But and we were in, Europe over the holidays. Vienna had these sanctioned areas up the riverbank that had these cement walls that they were painting, and they were having artists come in and paint those they sanctioned.

00;20;44;08 - 00;20;44;28
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right.

00;20;45;01 - 00;21;11;01
James
And we have here locally in San Jose and even in Palm Springs and Los Angeles and all the major metropolitan spots. We're working with artists to paint the power boxes for the the stoplights or paint the crosswalk. There's so many street artists out there that are talented, and we've got a lot of cement wall that could be beautified.

00;21;11;02 - 00;21;32;21
Laamsha (Laamie)
Well, you know, but it's what's so interesting just in terms of like, yes, I agree. And I think, in terms of Banksy, like in terms of this conversation, what's so interesting is number one, they pay nothing to these artists, you know, $200 for a day's work, I don't know. And number two, they're paying these artists to paint these public surfaces so they don't get graffitied.

00;21;32;23 - 00;21;46;22
Laamsha (Laamie)
And I think that's sort of an interesting irony. Like. Right. So, so that they're not taken by the people in their own hands so that the corporations so that the city has it has some say in what gets painted and what gets painted on it. Yeah.

00;21;46;26 - 00;21;48;29
James
It's interesting the difference.

00;21;48;29 - 00;21;49;14
Laamsha (Laamie)
Yeah.

00;21;49;14 - 00;21;50;17
James
Graffiti.

00;21;50;17 - 00;22;08;28
Laamsha (Laamie)
Yeah. Street art. Yes. You know, I wouldn't, I was, I was working with San Jose State and doing the street art tour through San Jose. And one of the attendees was from Serbia, and she was saying that her experience of street art was not the city paying you to paint art. It was it's you will get put in jail.

00;22;08;28 - 00;22;27;14
Laamsha (Laamie)
You will have your hands cut off. You will be severely punished if you do any street art. In the street art, she was saying, from where she's from is highly political, and she was very confused that we were calling these paintings that the city commissioned street art. And I thought that was an interesting distinction, like, of course. Right.

00;22;27;16 - 00;22;36;28
James
Well, and it gets back to this idea that who's taught us the definition of what that is. Is graffiti different than street art?

00;22;37;00 - 00;22;37;19
Laamsha (Laamie)
Yes. Right.

00;22;37;21 - 00;22;50;18
James
It's it's sanctioned by the city. Is it then art versus when someone's come along and painted out of their own supplies and with their own funds, this beautiful mural, is that not.

00;22;50;18 - 00;22;56;22
Laamsha (Laamie)
Art or a tag or a tag that we don't understand, right. That doesn't look beautiful to us. Is that not art? Yeah.

00;22;56;25 - 00;23;15;09
James
Yeah. It's interesting. I know for me, over the years, my opinion of street art and graffiti has changed and I feel with having become friends with some that do this and an appreciation for who they are as artists. I get it better.

00;23;15;09 - 00;23;21;02
Laamsha (Laamie)
Interesting, interesting, what have you, what have you sort of learned from that? I'm curious.

00;23;21;04 - 00;23;28;13
James
They have this talent, you know, I photograph I have a talent in photography, so I take pictures. I can't paint worth a damn.

00;23;28;15 - 00;23;33;00
Laamsha (Laamie)
Like, that's okay, that's okay. Everybody's got their yes, yes. Uhhuh.

00;23;33;03 - 00;23;43;12
James
But then I stand with these individuals and I watch what it is that they're doing. And how they're doing it under the closeness of dark I'm hiding.

00;23;43;12 - 00;23;44;04
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right.

00;23;44;07 - 00;23;56;13
James
Right. Do it yet they're creating these beautiful abstracts or these amazing allegories that tell of a culture that it's important we learn it.

00;23;56;15 - 00;24;03;28
Laamsha (Laamie)
Uhhuh. Yes. Okay. And so this is their only outlet. Right. And to like, share their view. To share their experience. Yeah.

00;24;04;00 - 00;24;11;28
James
Because the world of art hasn't readily accepted it. Just like it didn't accept photography.

00;24;11;29 - 00;24;15;02
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right, right. Still still right. Still there's question.

00;24;15;02 - 00;24;16;22
James
Right. Even with digital media.

00;24;16;22 - 00;24;19;00
Laamsha (Laamie)
Yes. You know right. Especially anytime.

00;24;19;00 - 00;24;21;08
James
Something new comes along it's like that's not how we do.

00;24;21;08 - 00;24;24;07
Laamsha (Laamie)
It. Right? That's how we do it. Right? Yes. Right. Yeah.

00;24;24;08 - 00;24;35;01
James
And so having this opportunity with these individuals and seeing how talented and gifted from the start, not right to do this. They were gifted.

00;24;35;02 - 00;24;36;23
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right. I like that.

00;24;36;23 - 00;24;41;14
James
That isn't really any different than what Banksy is doing it.

00;24;41;14 - 00;25;03;20
Laamsha (Laamie)
You know, I will contradict you here. I think it's very different than what Banksy is doing, because I don't think Banksy is all that talented. I think Banksy is, super media wiz is brilliant. Has. And I, like I was saying before, like the miracle mystery and authority, they've nailed it. If they if their message was I am Jesus, I think that would be I think people would fall for that.

00;25;03;20 - 00;25;29;25
Laamsha (Laamie)
I think his his whole media package is brilliant and successful. His artwork. I don't think so. So when you're describing someone who's innately talented, who has something burning in their soul that they need to share, and all they have access to is a spray paint can and a wall, that's something very different than what I see Banksy doing, even though I understand what you're saying, like Banksy is sort of making it more okay to do that.

00;25;29;28 - 00;25;33;17
Laamsha (Laamie)
No, I think it's I think it's very different. I'm curious your thoughts.

00;25;33;19 - 00;25;54;04
James
So if Banksy understands what his audience wants, right. I feel he's giving them that. And when I look at these street artists and graffiti artists that are out there making these beautiful murals or whatever it is that they're doing, I see them knowing their audience.

00;25;54;06 - 00;25;54;21
Laamsha (Laamie)
Okay.

00;25;54;26 - 00;25;59;04
James
And that's where I think there's a correlation between the two.

00;25;59;04 - 00;25;59;21
Laamsha (Laamie)
Yes.

00;25;59;21 - 00;26;06;09
James
Do I think that Banksy is more talented and he's not showing it? Possibly.

00;26;06;11 - 00;26;08;24
Laamsha (Laamie)
I could go on. I could believe that.

00;26;08;27 - 00;26;26;27
James
If nothing else, he is shining a light on a space that art exists. That society is wanted to ignore my opinion. Yes. I wanted to ignore for far too long. Yes. And instead of learning that culture like what I had the opportunity to.

00;26;26;27 - 00;26;28;06
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right, right.

00;26;28;06 - 00;26;37;12
James
And understand those artists more closely, it changed how I perceive that art.

00;26;37;15 - 00;26;42;07
Laamsha (Laamie)
It's more democratic, it's more accessible. Like what? Like what? Yeah. Okay. All of those.

00;26;42;07 - 00;27;01;17
James
Things, there's, you know, we're here in San Jose and we can walk along the Guadalupe right pathway, and there are different murals that are telling the story of a culture, right, that existed in this community far before we developed it for Adobe.

00;27;01;17 - 00;27;03;22
Laamsha (Laamie)
Yes. Right. No. Absolutely. Any of those.

00;27;03;22 - 00;27;04;09
James
Things.

00;27;04;10 - 00;27;05;23
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right, right.

00;27;05;25 - 00;27;12;04
James
That gets lost. Yes. Because I think too much of society has discounted.

00;27;12;07 - 00;27;12;27
Laamsha (Laamie)
I see.

00;27;12;29 - 00;27;22;00
James
This type of art. So if I was to compare his rhino humping the parked car.

00;27;22;03 - 00;27;23;01
Laamsha (Laamie)
Just love saying that.

00;27;23;01 - 00;27;29;15
James
I do, I do. But that versus one of these multicolored.

00;27;29;15 - 00;27;30;03
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right.

00;27;30;03 - 00;27;42;00
James
Hand drawn hand painted hands sprayed all of that. Now we're talking about the quality. We're talking about more than just yes, having it be art.

00;27;42;00 - 00;27;42;16
Laamsha (Laamie)
Yes.

00;27;42;23 - 00;27;45;20
James
And and getting a story across.

00;27;45;22 - 00;28;03;00
Laamsha (Laamie)
Yes. You know, and it occurs to me while you're saying this and I agree with what you're saying, it occurs to me that, part of the thing that Banksy has offered is that the that you have, the general public has access to a famous work of art while walking down the street. And there's something different there. So.

00;28;03;06 - 00;28;24;26
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right. So it's a different experience than like, oh my goodness, this is a really powerful, beautiful piece of art. It's it's more that, wow, like you were saying earlier, I guess, like I'm part of this in-crowd. I can't afford $35 to go to the MoMA, but I can walk down the street and now I'm a part. Now I'm now a part of this experience of seeing this famous art.

00;28;24;26 - 00;28;33;07
Laamsha (Laamie)
Now I can talk about it, and the content is such that I can also talk about it. And so I hear you on this. Yeah, yeah.

00;28;33;09 - 00;28;46;19
James
It's funny because Banksy's been around for a bit. And do you think that his popularity has waned over time or has strengthened.

00;28;46;21 - 00;28;51;21
Laamsha (Laamie)
Oh that's so interesting. I'm really not on the pulse of that. What is your what are your thoughts on that?

00;28;51;21 - 00;28;55;01
James
For me I think he is an amazing marketer.

00;28;55;02 - 00;28;55;22
Laamsha (Laamie)
Yes.

00;28;55;26 - 00;29;01;06
James
Read it when he is not in the conversation we get a new piece of work.

00;29;01;08 - 00;29;08;28
Laamsha (Laamie)
Interesting. Okay, so it's like algorithmic in large, but yes, interesting. I, I would see that as. Yeah.

00;29;09;00 - 00;29;11;09
James
Because we hadn't heard from Banksy. Right.

00;29;11;11 - 00;29;12;11
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right.

00;29;12;14 - 00;29;18;19
James
And all of a sudden. No fanfare. But everybody knew it was the Banksy.

00;29;18;25 - 00;29;19;22
Laamsha (Laamie)
Interesting.

00;29;19;22 - 00;29;22;04
James
Animals start showing up stenciled on walls.

00;29;22;04 - 00;29;40;00
Laamsha (Laamie)
Interesting. Well and so so Banksy is not just a person anymore to Banksy as a team, right? Banksy has a whole marketing team. I was looking at their website and there's like a whole legal website. If you have questions about whether you're what you own is a true Banksy or not. Banksy is a corporation at this point, which is so interesting to me.

00;29;40;00 - 00;29;44;23
Laamsha (Laamie)
And so yeah, corporations are smart that way. Like they know how to keep the value going.

00;29;44;23 - 00;29;49;14
James
I think Banksy followed a model that Andy Warhol created.

00;29;49;14 - 00;30;01;17
Laamsha (Laamie)
Oh yes. Sure, sure. Yeah, sure. Right. That Andy Warhol didn't create. He just called out, like, right. That exists. Like that's what I'm saying. Like this is a corporate way to do things. And Andy Warhol called it out and said, well, we could use it for art, so.

00;30;01;17 - 00;30;07;25
James
Right. And, you know, we have him not over saturating, right?

00;30;07;27 - 00;30;10;21
Laamsha (Laamie)
Very tasteful.

00;30;10;23 - 00;30;11;18
Speaker 3
It's tasteful, as.

00;30;11;18 - 00;30;29;01
James
Banksy could be. But, you know, if we were seeing Banksy's everywhere, right? And not just for a handful of days in the month of August. Right. But daily for a year. Right? Would they still be as relevant?

00;30;29;02 - 00;30;47;05
Laamsha (Laamie)
Well, here's okay. Yes. I'm so glad you're saying this because this is something that bugs me about him. And this is that sort of that, you know, the Monet coffee mug, right? Like you can absolutely buy a Banksy coffee mug or Banksy tote bag. And I think at the same time, as an artist, his style hasn't changed at all.

00;30;47;05 - 00;31;07;18
Laamsha (Laamie)
So you could buy a Banksy coffee mug that was, you know, from a 1990s, you know, image. And I think, well, I guess I'm saying a bunch of different things here, but I think, the art, artistic integrity has sort of waned. If that answers your original question. So I think over the years, the integrity of the artistic integrity has waned.

00;31;07;18 - 00;31;11;08
Laamsha (Laamie)
But I think that the successes, I mean, the popularity has stayed the same.

00;31;11;12 - 00;31;23;25
James
Yeah, but that's also true of any artist, because we can go to the Art Institute in Chicago and we can get the mug of Monet, right? Or the tote bag of Sara.

00;31;23;27 - 00;31;25;06
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right, right, right.

00;31;25;07 - 00;31;34;28
James
It gets into the capitalization that has come into the art market, which then also allows people to own a piece.

00;31;34;29 - 00;31;37;03
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right? Okay. Right. So right. That go.

00;31;37;03 - 00;31;38;26
Speaker 3
Bad. Right right right right right right.

00;31;38;26 - 00;31;54;06
Laamsha (Laamie)
Love that. I love that question. Because what is it. Because honestly like the value like the like the oh my gosh my my good friend has a, a tote bag with the unicorn from that tapestry that, you know, the Bayeux Tapestry or whatever, you know, and it's her prized possession. And why would I take that away from her?

00;31;54;06 - 00;32;17;29
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right. But. So. Right. So what's our conversation about? Is it about artistic integrity? Is it about accessibility? Is it about value? Right. It's all these things. Right. And I think that there is Banksy starts out with this sort of punk rock soul. Right. Which is something that I think as an old punk rock lover, I think despite the inevitability of that waning and disappearing, I'm disappointed.

00;32;18;06 - 00;32;30;05
Laamsha (Laamie)
I'm disappointed. I think. Can one continue to be a rebel throughout their entire lives? Can you like, can your work continue to push boundaries? His work has stopped pushing boundaries, in my opinion.

00;32;30;07 - 00;32;31;00
James
Interesting.

00;32;31;01 - 00;32;34;02
Laamsha (Laamie)
Yeah, yeah, I don't know. Do you feel how do you what do you see?

00;32;34;02 - 00;33;01;13
James
I think what he did this summer with these, with the animals. And then the last piece at the zoo with the gorilla kind of reset for me. Back to he's getting to his origins. And now I'm excited to watch for what comes next. Interesting because as with Warhol always reinventing himself. Right. Always creating a new persona of something.

00;33;01;13 - 00;33;04;26
James
Yes, I think Banksy follows that same idea.

00;33;04;29 - 00;33;24;10
Laamsha (Laamie)
Okay, so I have two thoughts on this. And the first one is, is to totally agree with you and to say like, Bravo, like to go to a no content, just purely, happy imagery is very is unheard of, right? Like that's pretty punk rock at this moment in time. And the other thing is that we know it's Banksy.

00;33;24;10 - 00;33;30;27
Laamsha (Laamie)
I mean, so clearly Banksy, and there's not really a lot extra in it for me visually.

00;33;30;29 - 00;33;43;07
James
Well, and that gets back to this is one of the reasons why I wanted to have this conversation with you specifically because we have different opinions of where it's coming from, but we can agree on some of the some.

00;33;43;07 - 00;33;45;13
Laamsha (Laamie)
Of this stuff.

00;33;45;16 - 00;33;51;16
James
But the fact that there's multiple sides to this is so important to be a part of the conversation.

00;33;51;16 - 00;33;52;17
Laamsha (Laamie)
Yes, I agree.

00;33;52;19 - 00;34;01;11
James
And if there's one thread that anybody gets from anything that you and I have bantered back and forth, it's your opinion. You need to have one.

00;34;01;14 - 00;34;05;20
Laamsha (Laamie)
Oh, I love that. Yes, yes, I love that. Right I love that, yes.

00;34;05;26 - 00;34;16;10
James
Too many times we come into this and it's like, oh, I love this, right? We talked a little earlier. I love this because everybody else is loving it. It's like, okay, be original, right?

00;34;16;10 - 00;34;23;28
Laamsha (Laamie)
Yes. Right. Or at least be authentic or be in touch with your own sense. Yes, absolutely. Have the courage.

00;34;24;01 - 00;34;39;18
James
Right in art, I think, is one of the things that gives us our most power. Oh, I love that. When we tap into that courage, is when it's noticed.

00;34;39;21 - 00;35;01;25
Laamsha (Laamie)
Well, I have to say, like, I'm very excited to talk about this, particularly with you, because I find that in your work so much. And that's something I love about your work so much, which is that there's so much courage. I mean, honestly, photography is so raw anyway. And I think particularly some of your pieces, like your piece, I don't know the name of it, but the piece with you on your naked on a stool.

00;35;01;28 - 00;35;03;08
James
So that's projected word.

00;35;03;08 - 00;35;25;22
Laamsha (Laamie)
Projected words. It hits me hard every time. And I do think I mean, I think even your, you know, your circus freaks, which is, it's it's funny and it's joyful, but it's also incredibly painful. Right. And it's also incredibly raw and it's full of courage, like how I'm getting shivers even talking about this. But like, how does one share an experience of being outed or called out or othered?

00;35;25;22 - 00;35;30;20
Laamsha (Laamie)
How do you share that with the people that are doing the other thing to you?

00;35;30;22 - 00;35;46;27
James
It's interesting that, you know, you used those examples, the projected words is me sitting on a posing bench and I'm nude and there are homophobic words being projected onto my body.

00;35;47;03 - 00;35;52;00
Laamsha (Laamie)
It gets like it gets me very. It touches me really I yeah.

00;35;52;02 - 00;36;08;28
James
Yeah. That's my story. But then you brought up one of my funnest ones to play with was the circus freaks. These are people in society who have been othered or have been neglected or have been shunned, ignored.

00;36;09;00 - 00;36;15;27
Laamsha (Laamie)
Forgotten because of their authenticity, because of their because they're being true to themselves. You know, they are they are.

00;36;15;28 - 00;36;18;24
James
They have no way to get around that I see.

00;36;18;28 - 00;36;19;14
Laamsha (Laamie)


00;36;19;17 - 00;36;33;24
James
And a lot of times with my work people will say, oh are you doing okay. So they look at some of the stuff and I have to like in general, I have to remind them that my work isn't always autobiographical.

00;36;33;24 - 00;36;36;03
Laamsha (Laamie)
I say.

00;36;36;05 - 00;36;48;28
James
I, I think like Banksy. Have a theater in which I can operate. Yes. That the audience gets to be told the story I choose to tell them.

00;36;48;28 - 00;36;49;20
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right.

00;36;49;22 - 00;36;54;08
James
And that gives me the opportunity to give voice to others that don't.

00;36;54;10 - 00;36;54;24
Laamsha (Laamie)
Have that.

00;36;54;24 - 00;37;03;16
James
Right, that theater. Right. I think that Banksy does that. I think street artists do that. I think that many artists do it and they don't realize it.

00;37;03;21 - 00;37;13;16
Laamsha (Laamie)
Okay. I was wondering, do you think it's intentional? Like, I mean, do you think these artists are, like going out of their way to share a story that they think will uplift?

00;37;13;16 - 00;37;38;12
James
I did a podcast with Rustin Johnson about creativity. Inside the artist's mind. And we talked about how he looks to YouTube videos. He looks to music. He looks to literature or that has touched his life. He is not alone in using these kinds of inspirations.

00;37;38;14 - 00;37;39;09
Laamsha (Laamie)
Absolutely.

00;37;39;11 - 00;37;48;08
James
To paint skulls, photograph, build, install a story. That's not necessarily their own.

00;37;48;09 - 00;37;54;26
Laamsha (Laamie)
Interesting. Okay okay. It's not their own. But obviously resonates with them on some level. Right. Yes. Okay okay.

00;37;54;26 - 00;38;14;22
James
Voice to it. You know I think about Lulu who made amazing paintings that were from the history of her culture, but not all of those stories were her own personal. Yes. Now when she did the picture of her ID, her immigration ID of goodness, that is her right.

00;38;14;24 - 00;38;15;19
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right, right.

00;38;15;25 - 00;38;22;20
James
And some of it's history of her family and where they came from. But there was an entire culture and.

00;38;22;23 - 00;38;24;02
Laamsha (Laamie)
I see what you're saying she's.

00;38;24;02 - 00;38;26;21
James
Speaking for because she has the theater.

00;38;26;21 - 00;38;27;04
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right.

00;38;27;04 - 00;38;27;16
James
To do.

00;38;27;16 - 00;38;39;17
Laamsha (Laamie)
That. Right? I see what you're saying. Right. It's not going out of your way to say something about people that you don't necessarily know about is speaking your own truth. That then is becomes sort of universal to your. Yes, yes, yeah.

00;38;39;22 - 00;38;52;24
James
The the circus freaks were fun because, you know, I got to play with that. And I was glad that I did that. And I appreciated how it touched different ones through the horror of yes.

00;38;52;26 - 00;38;54;22
Laamsha (Laamie)
Yes, yes, yes, yes.

00;38;54;25 - 00;39;08;12
James
But again, you know, my my mother in law came to me when that premiered and she grabs my arm and she goes, Is Jeff afraid to fall asleep?

00;39;08;14 - 00;39;12;29
Laamsha (Laamie)
You're like, maybe that's a different story. I don't know in regards to what.

00;39;13;02 - 00;39;19;09
James
But we our lives, sometimes we don't feel are full.

00;39;19;17 - 00;39;22;14
Laamsha (Laamie)
I think none of us do, whether they are or not. Yeah.

00;39;22;21 - 00;39;28;02
James
What does an artist do to find inspiration? Right. They use.

00;39;28;02 - 00;39;29;04
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right as the.

00;39;29;08 - 00;39;38;19
James
Basis to build. And that's where I think it's interesting with Banksy stuff that he did in August. Everybody was looking for a meaning, right. And there wasn't.

00;39;38;25 - 00;39;40;11
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right, right, right.

00;39;40;12 - 00;39;42;15
James
Right. To be honest, I wasn't disappointed.

00;39;42;17 - 00;39;43;15
Laamsha (Laamie)
Yes.

00;39;43;18 - 00;39;45;28
James
Because sometimes it's okay to make pretty pictures.

00;39;45;28 - 00;40;02;10
Laamsha (Laamie)
Well, right. Or to sort of stand on an absurdist platform, which is sort of what it is to make pretty pictures these days. Like the world is in so much pain and so much chaos that to ignore that and sort of just do something cute is it's a stance. Absolutely.

00;40;02;10 - 00;40;13;03
James
Well, and it's something else that is art is for those of us that have been through art school, they always are telling you that your art needs to have a meaning. You need to research to do all of these things.

00;40;13;03 - 00;40;17;18
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right, right, right, right, right. To the extent of ridiculousness. Yes, yes.

00;40;17;18 - 00;40;21;16
James
However, there's a flip side of that. What's your audience.

00;40;21;19 - 00;40;22;04
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right.

00;40;22;04 - 00;40;23;11
James
Who is your audience.

00;40;23;12 - 00;40;23;29
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right.

00;40;24;00 - 00;40;25;12
James
Do you have one.

00;40;25;13 - 00;40;26;03
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right.

00;40;26;03 - 00;40;40;23
James
And what is the story you're trying to tell to that audience. Right. And then beyond that does that audience actually want to hold on to that story and purchase that piece of art? Right. And I think there's a breakdown in the art world with that.

00;40;40;23 - 00;40;50;13
Laamsha (Laamie)
I think also like the meaning I think, is the work attractive? Has that lost any part of this conversation? Is the work beautiful? Is the work interesting visually?

00;40;50;13 - 00;41;03;26
James
It's funny. I make all different kinds of imagery with my photographs and what I do with them afterwards. It all starts with a photograph, but then it ends up somewhere else. That short horror film, I'll never sell it. It'll never.

00;41;03;28 - 00;41;06;09
Speaker 3
License to. Do you ever know that.

00;41;06;11 - 00;41;08;25
Laamsha (Laamie)
J.J. Abrams or whatever.

00;41;08;28 - 00;41;09;18
Speaker 3
This is.

00;41;09;20 - 00;41;19;02
James
But there's other pieces of it. The tarot card series, right, that I'm continuing to build. There are pieces of that that have sold.

00;41;19;04 - 00;41;20;22
Laamsha (Laamie)
Love it. They're so good.

00;41;20;25 - 00;41;36;24
James
They have an audience. And I think if we can break down why art is an accessible. I think we'll see more acceptance of like what Banksy does in the world with the rest of the street artists.

00;41;36;27 - 00;42;01;06
Laamsha (Laamie)
Okay, I love that and I hear you and I'm finding my own resistance, like just welling in my stomach as you say that. And I really realize that a lot of it has to do with my indoctrination from art school feeling sort of like, well, you know, we've put in the time we've studied history, we know what's valuable, we know what content is, we know the historical trajectory of this idea.

00;42;01;06 - 00;42;12;03
Laamsha (Laamie)
And all of that comes up like into the top of my chest when you say that. And then I realize, like, it's time to question that. Maybe, like maybe, maybe that's just the way we've always done it, which is the thing I'm like sort of pushing against.

00;42;12;03 - 00;42;21;24
James
Right. How is Banksy any different in today's time of art than Monet and the other Impressionists were in the late 1800s?

00;42;21;25 - 00;42;41;19
Laamsha (Laamie)
And I don't know this for sure, but I feel sort of an interest or like an artistic integrity, which Banksy in some ways, to me sort of just does the same shtick over and over again. And I feel like there was this, like real, genuine sort of delight in discovery with the Impressionists as they were starting. And I think that's what we respond to still.

00;42;41;19 - 00;42;55;06
Laamsha (Laamie)
And then I do think, you know, once they become successful, then they do the same thing. Right? But I feel like Banksy maybe sort of started with the trajectory of the shtick as opposed to the deep discovery. And I may be very wrong in that, I don't know.

00;42;55;09 - 00;43;03;01
James
Yeah, I hope you're wrong, because I have a shtick and I'm sticking with it. It's like, you know, I make fun of things, right?

00;43;03;01 - 00;43;04;07
Laamsha (Laamie)
Yes. Right. Yes. Right.

00;43;04;14 - 00;43;07;13
James
Okay. Ideas? I'm. I'm in there.

00;43;07;14 - 00;43;28;01
Laamsha (Laamie)
Okay, okay. All right, I respect that I respect that. And and honestly like I think too, you know, maybe being sort of A.D.D. in the A.D.D. world, like, I think that, you know, maybe, maybe I'm to wedded to the idea that. Investigate something, move on, investigate something, move on. There's so much to be gained by really sticking with your shtick, I appreciate that also.

00;43;28;01 - 00;43;28;28
Speaker 3
Yes.

00;43;29;01 - 00;43;45;16
James
Let me, as we wrap this up. Yes. With Banksy's works with street artists were do you feel they should be preserved and protected? Oh, similar to how we put value on a monet, right?

00;43;45;16 - 00;43;52;22
Laamsha (Laamie)
Oh, oh, that's such a good question. What are your thoughts? I'm like, I have to think about this for a minute.

00;43;52;24 - 00;44;18;12
James
For me, I do feel it needs to be protected. It's public art and we as a society need more public art. It's where true stories tend to be told. It's a history that hasn't been tainted by society. There's something real about it. And for art to be accessible, it needs to be where everyone can get to it.

00;44;18;12 - 00;44;27;13
James
And when it's behind the walls of a museum, when it's in a gallery, when it's in a space that's a private home, it's not accessible.

00;44;27;19 - 00;44;50;19
Laamsha (Laamie)
Yes, I love that. I agree, and I actually think to the, the I love the idea of something that is incredibly valuable. But nobody is allowed to commodify it. Right. Like, I think this is true of, you know, historical artifacts of cultural artifacts. Leave it in the ground where it was originally placed, and we know it's there.

00;44;50;19 - 00;45;10;02
Laamsha (Laamie)
Right. And the idea that anyone person could any one person could go and dig it up or could go and chisel this off the wall and make $1 million, but they don't. I think that's a beautiful statement in itself. Yeah, I like what you're saying about that. Yeah. You're laughing because I'm agreeing with.

00;45;10;04 - 00;45;10;17
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00;45;10;22 - 00;45;18;25
James
Hey, Lonnie, thank you so much for joining me today. This is just as always, a delight when I get to have a conversation with you.

00;45;19;00 - 00;45;24;20
Laamsha (Laamie)
Thank you so much, James. I feel exactly the same. Thank you.

00;45;24;22 - 00;45;47;04
James
With those last sips of latte that concludes today's episode of Lattes & Art, presented by J-Squared Atelier, a huge thank you to Laamsha Young for joining us and lending her unique perspective on Banksy and the fine art world. If you're inspired by her story as much as I am, be sure to check out her stunning designs at her website.

00;45;47;07 - 00;46;20;14
James
Laamsha young dot net - L A A M S H A Y O U N G dot net. Laamsha’s work will be part of Truth and Collective's Close to the Skin show that will be opening at WORKS San Jose mid November and run through December. Laamie will also be doing a solo show at Minow Gallery in Santa Cruz in January 2025. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe to the podcast so you'll never miss an update.

00;46;20;17 - 00;46;42;21
James
And if you're loving the conversations, please take a moment to rate and review the show. It helps others discover us and keeps the creative energy flowing. As always, keep creating, keep questioning and don't forget to share your art with the world until next time. I'm James William Moore and this has been lots and art presented by J square Italia.