You & I: A Filmmaker's Journey with Summer Shelton

On this episode of Lattes & Art, we sit down with award-winning filmmaker Summer Shelton to explore her journey from a rural sheep farm in North Carolina to the world of independent cinema. Summer has worked alongside acclaimed directors, navigated the highs and lows of indie filmmaking, and won the Independent Spirit Producer’s Award.

We dive into her latest project, You & I, a micro-budget feature film that beautifully captures love, intimacy, and human connection. Summer shares the challenges and rewards of bringing a story to life with limited resources, the realities of the filmmaking industry, and how she’s built a career that balances passion with practicality.

If you're an aspiring filmmaker, storyteller, or just love independent film, this episode is packed with insights, inspiration, and a behind-the-scenes look at what it takes to make movies outside the Hollywood system.

 For more information on Summer Shelton’s work:

 Website: https://www.summershelton.com/ 

 You & I streams on: 

Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B0DJR6VS4H/ref=atv_dp_share_cu_r

Apple TV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/movie/you-and-i/umc.cmc.25092hcef30cg27xrpnkna5qj 

Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/youandi2024 

Fandango: https://athome.fandango.com/content/browse/details/You-I/3613594 

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Transcript

00;00;08;17 - 00;00;36;28
James
Welcome to Lattes & Art, the podcast where we dive into the creative world one sip at a time. I'm your host, James William Moore, curator, artist, and your guide through conversations with some of the most compelling voices in the art. Today we have a very special guest. Award winning filmmaker Summer Shelton, from growing up on a sheep farm in North Carolina to making a name for herself in independent cinema.

00;00;37;01 - 00;01;14;11
James
Summer's journey is one of resilience, creativity and passion. She's worked alongside celebrated filmmakers, won the Independent Spirit Producers Award and has navigated the ever changing landscape of indie filmmaking. In this episode, we'll discuss her latest project. “You and I” - a micro-budget feature film that explores love, intimacy and human connection. We'll also talk about the realities of filmmaking, balancing artistic vision with industry challenges, the impact of mentorship, and what it takes to bring a story to life on screen.

00;01;14;13 - 00;01;40;23
James
So grab your favorite latte, settle in, and let's get into it. On today's episode, we have the joy of getting to talk to Summer Shelton and hearing about her journey from a rural town to having this movie that's been released. So, summer, thank you so much for joining me. If you wouldn't mind, just for those that may not know you, could you do a little bit of an introduction?

00;01;40;24 - 00;02;12;13
Summer
Hello. Thank you for having me. My name is Summer Shelton. I am a native of North Carolina, which is where I am speaking from today. I grew up in a very small town outside of a more famous small town known as Mayberry, like The Andy Griffith Show. But I grew up in a little community called Westfield, so I would always have to tell people Mayberry as a city reference, if that gives you any perspective of like where I'm from, if, you know, I speak of Mayberry like it's New York City, but I lived here most of my life.

00;02;12;13 - 00;02;39;13
Summer
I went to college here and, you know, kind of got my first exposure to, you know, the arts and filmmaking. And it wasn't until I was in my mid 20s that I, like, moved to New York, learn how to actually kind of like make movies. And then I kind of built my career there as a producer, working kind of through the trenches, behind the scenes and offices and on sets and learning everything soup to nuts about how to physically make a movie.

00;02;39;13 - 00;03;04;10
Summer
And then I moved back to the South and I guess I had, I would say maybe like a third Life crisis. I feel like I've had it like different decades in my life. But, you know, I think there was like a little life crisis at like 26 to, like, leave a career in education to, like, go to film school and then, like in mid 30s, another one to, like, leave New York and come back home and then another one to, like, make a movie.

00;03;04;10 - 00;03;11;18
Summer
So, I think I'm going to start calling these crises in this column these like impetuses for new chapters.

00;03;11;21 - 00;03;32;16
James
And it's interesting because I grew up in a rural town north of San Francisco. And so I kind of relate that, you know, there's something that draws you beyond that. And for you, it was the arts. Yeah. How did you discover it when you were in that town? Like, where are you going to the movies. Was there films being made there?

00;03;32;19 - 00;03;55;02
Summer
I would rent movies at a gas station that we had a gas station here, that you. We would get our soda and nabs, and there would be a small selection of VHS movies in the back, and I cycled my way through those. Finally, when I was like in high school or maybe even, yeah, now it maybe even college.

00;03;55;02 - 00;04;14;15
Summer
And when I come home, blockbuster was the big thing. And so, you know, they used to have that deal. Like you could buy two, get one free or buy three, get one free or whatever it was. I would always like I would spend an hour or two like combing through the movies, doing the math to decide with how much money I had, which ones I could get.

00;04;14;15 - 00;04;36;23
Summer
And so I really just started as an avid watcher of films, but also to like mainstream movies and things like, I didn't know what arthouse cinema was. I didn't know, you know, when the when someone would say the great big movies to me, I would think of the big movies like Wizard of Oz, Sound of Music, you know, The Ten Commandments, you know, all those that are on regular, like holiday rotation.

00;04;36;23 - 00;04;56;24
Summer
At some point in your southern life. But then too, as a child, you know, I go to church every Sunday. There's a choir, sing music. You sing. My father likes music a lot. We were, took piano lessons as a child, like any other southern mother. I was, my mom put me in pageants, and I had to have a talent.

00;04;56;24 - 00;05;22;24
Summer
So I would sing and dance and, you know, so I just was exposed to these things. But I didn't want to say that. Like, I really had a connection to them in any way where I thought I could make a living doing these things because I never really knew any artist. I knew people that were artistic, you know, like all the people in the church choir were amazing singers and some of the best songs and hymns and things I've heard.

00;05;22;24 - 00;05;26;22
Summer
But I don't know that they went home and like, watch Bergman or anything.

00;05;26;25 - 00;05;52;22
James
And it's interesting because for me, I remember it was such a big deal. We had the art train that the National Endowment for the Arts had sent across the US, and it came to my town. And so I was getting to see these masters and this incredible artwork that I had always was drawn to. But when you're in a town like that, you don't know where that exists.

00;05;52;22 - 00;05;53;26
James
Do you.

00;05;53;28 - 00;06;16;11
Summer
Know? I mean, I got lucky, like, you know, we'd have some school field trips, and my parents were extremely generous that they let me in high school, you know, do one of those overseas trips with the school. And so that was, you know, I got a passport, I got on a plane for the first time, you know, like big deal.

00;06;16;11 - 00;06;36;19
Summer
And I went with a school group to Europe. And, you know, looking back, I sometimes wonder if maybe that was a little place where I started to see, you know, like, oh, not only is this a different part of the world, but this is like a different world. And where I grew up, you know, there's like, you know, I grew up on a farm and we go like to the beach, you know, and.

00;06;36;19 - 00;06;58;08
Summer
Okay, that was strange enough. You know, that big water and that sand like that was like an a different planet from me on my real farm. But to, like, go overseas to Europe and, you know, see a whole different way of people living a walking culture, rail, you know, to ride the train from one city to another or another country, you know, overnight train, just these big experiences.

00;06;58;08 - 00;07;22;21
Summer
I was like, whoa, this is not only interesting, but also I liked it. It was it was exciting to me just to mainly see so much history and to like, see like, oh, this is all the things that I've read about in books or I've seen pictures because I really I love to go to the library as a kid, and they would only let you go into like one section of the library until you got big enough to go into the big section.

00;07;22;21 - 00;07;47;28
Summer
And I always like to sneak in the big section because that's where the travel books were. And that was my favorite, because they had silky pages and a really nice hardback with beautiful pictures. And so I would sneak to the travel section and look at all the books about places in the world. So it's more about like scenery and things that kind of drew me to wanting to explore things outside of the small town that I grew up in.

00;07;47;28 - 00;07;56;20
James
Well, and when you made it to New York, that had to feel like being in a foreign land. Since it's so different from everything, right?

00;07;56;22 - 00;08;18;13
Summer
Yeah. Well, it's kind of funny because the first time I went to New York, I actually I was a heist. I mean, I was in college and I made a deal with my parents that I would graduate college a year early if they would let me do a summer internship in New York, because when I did the math, it was practically about like the same amount of money to, like, put me out for a summer in New York was like a whole year of college.

00;08;18;13 - 00;08;40;13
Summer
I did that, and I got an internship at the one I did not know a soul there. I knew like one human, which was an alumni of the college who was the nicest woman out. Shout out to Christine Roker. So nice to welcome me. Like bright eyed, bushy tailed, not knowing anything. Welcomed me and was just so kind and generous.

00;08;40;13 - 00;09;09;16
Summer
And I'll never forget that hospitality that I got an internship there. But when I was in New York, I was so scared. I found a place to stay within walking distance, and I would only go places that I could walk. I think I might have ridden the subway, maybe like 1 to 5 times, and I would only ride it on Saturdays during what I would call like safe hour to me, which was like during the day when I know I would go place where other tourists would go.

00;09;09;18 - 00;09;24;03
Summer
So anywhere I knew there would be a lot of people, I would feel a little bit safe. So I would go down to the seaport and go visit the Statue of Liberty. I would go to Broadway. I went to a lot of Broadway play because, you know, that theater's full, so there's people in there and they're going there for a reason.

00;09;24;03 - 00;09;45;17
Summer
You know, I'm going to go in there, I'm going to sit out, I'm going to watch a show, and then I'm going to walk home. So these this was like my entertainment. I pretty much now looking back, I only like circulated between Herald Square and Time Square, which now I when I returned to New York, as you know, in my 20s, you know, I lived in Brooklyn for like ten years.

00;09;45;17 - 00;10;24;22
Summer
I lived in Greenpoint. I had this, like, pretentious saying that, like, you'll never find me above 21st Street type of mentality. You know, I soon turned into one of those just like, oh, you know, I avoid 21st to like 70th between, you know, six and eight. Unless I'm going to a show, you know, that snotty language that, you know, can say I was one of those for a while, but it is interesting to think about when I first went to New York with my gingham halter dresses and, you know, southern attire at age like I was 20, I think I was 19, 20 years old by myself then to then move up there seven years

00;10;24;22 - 00;10;30;28
Summer
later and become like, I consider myself like a New Yorker, like I lived there for ten years.

00;10;30;29 - 00;10;32;28
James
But yeah, you are immersed.

00;10;32;28 - 00;10;42;21
Summer
In my life. Yeah, I was a huge part of my life. I love it, it's it's an amazing place. But I went there at such different times so. Well, it's strange.

00;10;42;23 - 00;10;53;09
James
Yeah, well. And when we look back, right, we have the nostalgia of those times and we can see how it influenced us. Of how we see it and how our opinions change of it.

00;10;53;12 - 00;10;54;03
Summer


00;10;54;07 - 00;10;58;01
James
But when you went back up there you got into film production didn't you.

00;10;58;04 - 00;11;16;27
Summer
I did I, that's the reason why I went up there is like at age 26 I went to film school for one year, like I'd been a high school teacher for like four years in my early 20s. And I got my master's degree. I'd go to school at night, and then after I did all that, you know, pretty much got what I called my safety net.

00;11;17;00 - 00;11;36;09
Summer
You know, I started teaching career and I got a master's degree. I thought, all right, I've checked the boxes that, like normal humans do to, like, make their future somewhat secure. Now, I want to go to film school and try, because I did do some acting in college and a little bit of theater. But I want to see what it's like to make movies.

00;11;36;09 - 00;11;53;00
Summer
So we have an amazing film school here in North Carolina called the University of North Carolina School The Arts. I went there for one year, and I got lucky that, you know, I was the old kid there. And a filmmaker came to Winston-Salem, which is where he was from, to make his third movie called Goodbye Solo, Ramin Bahrani.

00;11;53;00 - 00;12;11;23
Summer
And he needed a right hand, and My White Force recommended me where I went to grad school and the school, the arts. And he then became my film school because I didn't return to film school anymore. I quit and worked with him, and we made good solo, and I learned that was my first foray into the film industry.

00;12;11;23 - 00;12;40;01
Summer
So and then I moved to New York and continued working with him, while I would also get jobs on other independent films. And the right side learned The Office and said, and just migrate my way up to learning how to be a capital P producer. After about seven years and of like, learning all the behind the scenes stuff and getting my feet wet and, you know, doing everything from running offices to driving cube trucks in New York, you know, you learn like, all right, you can do anything.

00;12;40;03 - 00;13;03;12
James
I love how you called it your your backup plan that, you know, and that sounds so much like an artist. We tend to be. What's our backup? Just in case this doesn't work. And I love yeah that you called it that. But then you have this opportunity, you're going through school and suddenly you leap out of school and you're in the industry.

00;13;03;14 - 00;13;06;21
James
Sometimes that's the right move for people, isn't it?

00;13;06;23 - 00;13;29;17
Summer
I think so I'm glad that I had that period between like age 20 to 26, where I taught high school. I was the youngest, like teacher in like the little English department there in our small school. But it was like a real job. And I had real response ability. And I had these students. And as much as I was teaching them about, what do you want to do in the next chapter of your life?

00;13;29;17 - 00;13;48;03
Summer
And I had done some traveling and things, and I I'd encourage them to get out and explore because, again, this was in small town, I was teaching in my hometown. And I remember one class I showed the 400 blows and it was the first foreign film that some of those students had ever seen. It was beautiful because they loved it.

00;13;48;05 - 00;14;15;04
Summer
And they're like, you know, Michelle and I got used to reading. It's fun. You know, I'm like, yeah, it's like, it's like this story. This movie's a lot like how I feel. And I'm like, oh my gosh, that just like touched me. So I'm glad that I had that experience in my early 20s. As much as I was giving the advice to those students to go out and do something, and it also gave me kind of like a hard look at my own life to be like, okay, Summer, what do you want to do?

00;14;15;09 - 00;14;34;09
Summer
What do you want to pursue? Because I always love teaching. I mean, my favorite boy as a child was a Mickey mouse chop board, my favorite toy, and I play school every day teaching my dolls and Barbies. So I just naturally, I always thought I'd be a teacher, and I still am. It's not necessarily my backup plan. It's like my second career alongside being a filmmaker.

00;14;34;09 - 00;14;51;21
Summer
So I still do it, but I just felt like I've been through a lot of things during that time period with my family and losing people and things, and I just saw how precious life was. And so I thought, you know what? I'm going to give this to myself. I'm just going to go to film school for one year and see what happens.

00;14;51;23 - 00;15;09;08
Summer
And everything happened that year. I think when you give yourself that opportunity to try it, things will happen. If you give it to yourself and earnestly, like just give it to yourself that chance. And that's what spearheaded my whole trajectory for the next 15 years and even to today.

00;15;09;10 - 00;15;13;13
James
What a great gift to give to yourself. That's just incredible.

00;15;13;15 - 00;15;17;24
Summer
Yeah, you have to give it to yourself. No one else will want to.

00;15;17;26 - 00;15;30;05
James
Yeah. Ain't that the truth? Oh my gosh. So you've really climbed up through the ranks in filmmaking, specifically in the independent area, correct.

00;15;30;08 - 00;15;31;06
Summer
Oh yeah. Yeah.

00;15;31;06 - 00;15;37;25
James
There are a few organizations that you've probably worked with right. Sundance and Gotham and a few others.

00;15;38;02 - 00;15;38;14
Summer
Yeah.

00;15;38;19 - 00;15;43;12
James
How instrumental are they to the career development.

00;15;43;14 - 00;16;06;20
Summer
I mean to me they're priceless and they still are. It's not like they're instrumental at one part of my career. It's just like long standing. I mean, those are things that, like, live with you throughout your career. Not just like on paper to like, you know, look fancy on your CV and make your bio look beautiful. But it's also the relationships and people that you meet is just forever.

00;16;06;20 - 00;16;31;25
Summer
And that's what's even more life changing. The Sundance Creative producing fellow was kind of like the first big thing that ever happened to me in my career. And I'll say that by like me as an individual, I'd been very fortunate that I was blessed to work with very talented directors who made beautiful films that went to super fancy festivals and did wonderful things and got to see what that's like.

00;16;31;25 - 00;16;58;15
Summer
But these were the first times that I felt someone thought that I what I had to do was worthy of endorsing. It does mean something, especially I came into this industry at it, like from a dirt road, just deciding on my own every contact I've built along the way or people that I've met. You know, I didn't like grow up around this industry or people.

00;16;58;15 - 00;17;27;01
Summer
So I've had to cultivate all relationships and things. And so these organized sessions kind of opening up their arms and saying, okay, let's give you a hug now, summer, that's what's really special and wonderful. It is like a a vote of confidence that I think sometimes we as artists, especially as filmmakers, and even more so as producers, I would say even more than other fields, don't often get these organizations come to you and be like, how can we help you?

00;17;27;01 - 00;17;51;02
Summer
What's your next goal? How can we help you get there? And so Sundance was really pivotal with that, and so was film independent and the Gotham I'm very instrumental. I'm definitely not oblivious to the fact that some phone calls that I get are probably because I have been a part of those organizations and have those awards and certain emails get answered, because I can put those things in my bio.

00;17;51;02 - 00;18;06;24
Summer
I'll never take that for granted, and I'm also very proud of it. I like to give back and I try to like, pay it forward. If I can have a conversation with an emerging filmmaker or rural filmmaker to give them a little bit of confidence, I'll I'll happily do it.

00;18;06;26 - 00;18;37;02
James
One of the things that, you know, we are in award season right now and film festivals and those of us that are on the outside see the glamor. We see the red carpet, we see the over-the-top gowns, we see all of that stuff. What is that festival really like for someone who is in the industry that's going in and having their movie, their film viewed by this audience, what's that feel like?

00;18;37;02 - 00;19;13;24
Summer
I have different feelings, having been as a producer and different feelings most recently going through as a writer, director, actress type person, as a producer, you're very elated. Obviously, you know that a filmmaker on your team, everyone dreams of having a big festival premiere of some sort. Anyone that tells you they don't, I just don't believe them. As much as it is thrilling as a producer, it's a little nerve wracking, to be honest with you, because you feel like it's such a precious moment in time that you don't want to squander it in any way.

00;19;13;27 - 00;19;41;29
Summer
And by that you mean like you want to know who else is going to be there. How many of those people can you meet? How many movies can you watch? Like, you really just want to pack as much into your life as you can in those seven days or five days, or how many days it's there? Because that's almost like filling up your gas tank, not just for another year, but it could be for like, your career, because these are like big moments where you're able to be around like minded people.

00;19;42;02 - 00;20;04;08
Summer
Also, it's exciting to go to feel a part of a community. And I think that that's something that often is filmmakers and artists. We don't have a chance to do is be amongst our community a lot, and maybe pinning where you live New York and LA, may, Chicago, maybe a little bit easier. But, you know, in certain rural areas where I am community, it's much different.

00;20;04;08 - 00;20;23;20
Summer
You know, not a lot of people even know what I do for a living or you know, what it means, and that's okay. But it's nice to every once in a while go where you can have like minded conversations. And people know not just how much you have struggled to get where you are, but also be there to celebrate with each other.

00;20;23;20 - 00;20;36;24
Summer
So it's very meaningful. It is like to me as an artist, I know to other people it might be great business transactions and things, but to me it's fueling for the soul to go and you feel just less alone.

00;20;36;24 - 00;20;57;20
James
Well, and it's community. It's absolutely artistic idea of community. We come together, we support one another. We are there to cheer us all on. Now you work in the independent filmmaking realm? Yeah, not the easiest area because budgets aren't the same for like a marvel movie, are there?

00;20;57;22 - 00;21;21;12
Summer
No, my, I think the my entire budget is probably, like I would say, probably less than their crafty budget for so that you know, I've worked on films that most of the movies I've worked on has been anywhere from like Micro Budget, which is anywhere around like 200 to 500,000 under a million. You know, somewhere in that space has been a lot of the films and stuff that I've done.

00;21;21;12 - 00;21;40;01
Summer
But I've had the, you know, I've been able to dip my toe in a higher budget, like upwards of 5 million is like as high as, like I've been able to be on a set of something that big. But the films that I make are genuinely they they cost less, but I don't think that they're any less valuable.

00;21;40;04 - 00;22;06;20
Summer
And I think that if anything, there's a lot of creativity, passion, thoughtfulness, a lot of research that you can take when you don't have so much baggage to have to deal with. And that's what I like about working in an independent space, is that you can be a little more free, not just like you have to do things for free, like van locations.

00;22;06;20 - 00;22;35;08
Summer
I just mean, like to like mentally there's a kind of freedom to be like, you know what? That's not that's not my world. You know, like, we don't have trailers on my movie, like, like, no, it's just like we don't have, first off, if if I'm making an independent film or an actor has any time to even actually sit down in a trailer long enough to, like, feel the effects from it, something's probably not going right on set because you usually don't have enough time to, like, sit down and do things.

00;22;35;08 - 00;22;58;04
Summer
It's really like a marathon. I mean, most of the movies I make will make in anywhere from 14 to 22 days. Maybe, if lucky, if a budget is a little bit higher, maybe we could get in the 25 to 30 day world. But most movies around that, or anywhere from like, I think the quickest movie I made was in 14 days.

00;22;58;06 - 00;23;00;20
Summer
And that's not a lot of time.

00;23;00;27 - 00;23;10;00
James
That isn't a lot of time. And it just feels like this marathon that you're trying to rush through. But that's just the filming, right?

00;23;10;00 - 00;23;11;22
Summer
That's not that's just the filming.

00;23;11;22 - 00;23;12;09
James
Got it.

00;23;12;14 - 00;23;29;27
Summer
Just the filming. So just the filming. So I could be prepping any one of these movies from six months to six years, trying to put it together and trying to just raise enough money for that smaller movie, a small budget movie. I don't mean the movie smaller for someone the other day, which is something like, oh, you make these small movies.

00;23;29;27 - 00;23;49;15
Summer
I'm like, well, whatever screen you watch, the film I make on, or whether you watch a big movie on the screen, same size audiences only see what's in front of the camera. And no, I don't. I normally don't have more than one camera and I don't, you know, that square that we all look at? It's just square.

00;23;49;15 - 00;24;03;16
James
It just proves this idea that if you have this great idea, if you have this beautiful story, that's well-written and you bring in the right actors, that big budget really doesn't matter if you do it right.

00;24;03;16 - 00;24;27;08
Summer
I mean, it matters for the rest of the year when I'm like trying to pay my health insurance or something, that's when I really think about it. But on a like quality control basis, I don't associate necessarily quality with budget level. There are some scripts that I read this way, like, you know what, I see a really independent, raw version of this material that we can do away from all of the hoopla.

00;24;27;10 - 00;24;28;24
Summer
But sometimes you need the hoopla.

00;24;28;26 - 00;24;31;01
James
Hoopla? That's not always a bad thing.

00;24;31;04 - 00;25;05;20
Summer
No it's not. I will happily jump in the circus that's that big. That's fine. I can handle it. I can do it. I just think in these days that you shouldn't always feel limited by it or not be afraid to try just because you don't have a lot of money. I think that that's when people and artists are self-editing and self silencing themself because they think, oh, if I don't have all these big things and I'm not going to do anything, quote unquote good or worthy or, you know, the worth of your material is not based on your budget size.

00;25;05;20 - 00;25;15;01
Summer
I mean, to me, it's about what kind of stories are you telling and how are you making people feel when they watch them? And to me, that's priceless.

00;25;15;01 - 00;25;23;16
James
You had a big change when you went from rural North Carolina to New York, but now you've returned.

00;25;23;18 - 00;25;24;02
Summer


00;25;24;05 - 00;25;26;13
James
How has that transition gone for you?

00;25;26;14 - 00;25;52;05
Summer
I didn't plan on returning. It just kind of happened. So I was in 2015. I was extremely exhausted, overworked. My tank was beyond empty and it was like February and nothing much was going on. That's a slower time in the industry. So I'll I'll just come back home, take a month off. I just never left because I wound up getting an invitation to adjunct at the school.

00;25;52;05 - 00;26;15;29
Summer
The arts here, which led to a corporate, interesting, lucrative job at Lowe's Hardware, which was very interesting to me to take what what I knew about making movies and apply it to corporate video content in a hardware space. Never would have thought when I had come home in 2015, that within two years I'd be working at a fortune 40 company at all.

00;26;15;29 - 00;26;32;18
Summer
But I did, and it's during that time that I got other movies made, and I saw that I could do what I wanted to do, and I didn't have to be in New York. And for a long period of time, I kept my apartment in New York. But then there comes a time where, like, you gotta give it up.

00;26;32;18 - 00;26;47;07
Summer
You can't do that forever. And so I made the decision. I'm like, you know what this is? I'm going to do it. So I just gave up my apartment. I left New York. I like to at least say I decided to leave. It's not like it kicked me out.

00;26;47;07 - 00;26;49;21
James
Well, it's always best when it's on our terms.

00;26;49;21 - 00;27;09;14
Summer
I do luckily get to go, but I usually go back once or twice a year. It still feels like a part of me is there. I don't mind the solitude. I feel like I can focus a little bit more on myself a little bit for good and for bad. Sometimes I wish I wasn't.

00;27;09;17 - 00;27;23;05
James
So do those sorts of feelings start to play into because you've moved into writing? So do those emotions. Do those feelings do those moments come out in your writing for other films?

00;27;23;08 - 00;27;46;04
Summer
I think so, I think even more so than place is just I've gotten older so I've been away from New York almost the amount of time that I lived there, which was like an old revelation to me the other day, is like, oh shit, I've been gone for almost ten years. That's a big milestone. And so for me, it's like, I think giving myself permission to just be myself and put myself out there.

00;27;46;04 - 00;28;09;10
Summer
I feel a little bit more confident doing that now. Maybe because I did live there and I did quote unquote, make it smaller. But, but I do feel that there is a bravery, as I get older, that I'm less concerned about what other people think I may should be doing or what I'm best suited to do, and I'm just going to do what I want.

00;28;09;15 - 00;28;23;18
James
You talked about how you've had these shifts in your career, in your life, and I think you're right that there's these things that come along that we make those decisions as we get older that are for our own self.

00;28;23;21 - 00;28;25;23
Summer
And I think that's okay.

00;28;25;26 - 00;28;56;16
James
It has to be we it has, you know, you made the comment that you're successful and then you said it's not this big budget success. Yeah. But I always say define success, right. You found accolades. You've you won awards. You had a career that was fulfilling. And then that led you to this moment of writing this amazing movie, that I just watched a few weeks ago and was captivated by.

00;28;56;17 - 00;29;03;00
James
When you were writing, you and I saw what was going on. How what brought you to this moment?

00;29;03;02 - 00;29;24;29
Summer
You know, I felt like I had nothing to lose because I had lost so much. It was during the pandemic. I truly thought my career was over done. I never I did not think I would be able to make another movie trying to get things financed. Not happening. I was somewhat of a newlywed at the time, and lots of life changes moved to a new city, but I found myself.

00;29;24;29 - 00;29;45;18
Summer
I was alone, didn't have like a huge circle around me, so I found myself alone. I also went through some health issues like I didn't know what was wrong with me. I, you know, hair falling out, rapid weight gain, all these things that a lot of women in their late 30s, early 40s go through. And I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's disease.

00;29;45;18 - 00;30;02;26
Summer
I was so happy to at least have an answer of like, awesome, I know what's wrong with me, because I'd go to so many doctors and they'd say, oh, you know, just drink water and walk. You know, if I mean, that's like when you're a woman, there's like, oh, do you, do you walking out, do you get enough exercise?

00;30;02;26 - 00;30;27;19
Summer
Do you have a read? Do you live a stressful life? You know, you should reduce your stress, do yoga, walk. I'm like, Jesus. Like, this can't just be like, that's I get that all those things are good. What? Humans shouldn't do those things. But I don't think it's normal that, you know, clumps of my hair should just fall out and that I just randomly can't keep my head up and fall asleep when I'm someone that's like, worked on like 60 to 80 hours a week type of person.

00;30;27;19 - 00;30;46;12
Summer
And now I can barely keep my eyes open until 2:00 in the afternoon. So I went through all these things where, you know, I was losing my health, losing a lot of things that I thought I'd worked so hard to build. And so I thought, you know what? If I'm going to go out, it's very common theme. I'm going to do it on my own terms.

00;30;46;14 - 00;31;04;15
Summer
So I'm just going to swing for the fences. So I've spent 15 years learning how to do all this moviemaking. I know how to do it. I know how to make a movie. I know how to make a movie economically. I know what type of movie should be made, that I can do it like this responsibly. So I'm just going to do it.

00;31;04;15 - 00;31;23;07
Summer
I'm going to do it for myself. And that's what I did. I just re-engineered, I worked backwards from how I knew that ultimately we would physically have to make the movie. But then the most important thing is that I pretty much did everything that I wouldn't telling my students to do in the South, you know, you got to like, walk the walk and talk the talk.

00;31;23;07 - 00;31;41;18
Summer
So I thought, you know what? If I'm going to preach it to all these students that I teach, do these things, I'm going to do it too. So the first step was to write something from the heart. One thing that I'm sadly and I don't want to say sadly, because to me, I'm I'm proud of scars and things that I've carried through my life.

00;31;41;19 - 00;32;11;01
Summer
You know, I've been through a lot of loss and things. So I wanted to kind of write a film about someone that remembers a time when they felt seen and when things felt hopeful and optimistic, even though at the time it may have not have felt that way. You know, hindsight's kind of 2020 sometimes. You know, I think as I got older, I, too realized how complex life actually can be for people.

00;32;11;01 - 00;32;35;26
Summer
And I think for a long period of my time, I was always looking at life by situations. If I can get myself in this situation where I have this type of income, this type of house, this type of car, and build my life into this specific situation, this is what life's about. But along the way, you really learn that life is not those things at all and your life is lived interacting with people.

00;32;35;28 - 00;32;55;26
Summer
What you do, do what you don't do just as much as what you do. And as someone that's lived through a lot of regret of things that I didn't do, I think just at this point in my life, I turn 40 and I think there's something just clicked where like when the world shut down, I just kind of woke up to what all I wanted to be.

00;32;55;26 - 00;33;12;23
Summer
And I knew this was maybe the one chance to do it. So I wanted to try it, and at least I would know that I gave myself that one thing. If I never got to do it again, I can at least say, well, everything I worked for was not for not. I took what I learned and I applied it.

00;33;12;23 - 00;33;14;09
Summer
I did something I wanted to do.

00;33;14;11 - 00;33;29;21
James
You jumped right into the deep end. Writer director, producer, editor, main actor, and, you know, a leading role in this film. How did you pull that off?

00;33;29;24 - 00;33;51;16
Summer
I guess just crazy. But, but I do think when you do something from such a place of necessity and such a place of determination and emotional necessity, that it just felt natural, like I couldn't imagine making this movie any other way. I don't think it would have been the movie that it is. If I would have approached it in a different way.

00;33;51;18 - 00;34;23;12
Summer
It's such an intimate story, so much of it. I feel like I'm at peace with it now. I was not very comfortable at first being in this film and making this film and doing what I've done has been a bit therapeutic in a sense of like maybe healing old wounds of opportunities and things undone or unsaid and being able to put yourself out there after being so much like in the background of life and, you know, pretty much as a producer people pleaser type person, you know, I was happy if everyone else was happy.

00;34;23;12 - 00;34;48;01
Summer
And that's really how I determine that. So it was amazing to like, give myself the opportunity to experience all these things that made me happy, which is writing, directing, acting just felt natural. Like, I don't know that I, I appreciate all the kind things people say about and I performance in the film, but I so much of it is just like I it was just a blur to me.

00;34;48;01 - 00;35;04;15
Summer
Like I do feel like I understand and like what a gift it is as an actor to be in the moment. I hope that everyone can experience that at least once in their life to like, just totally be present in a moment and that's special.

00;35;04;15 - 00;35;07;20
James
But and there was a rawness to your performance, like.

00;35;07;20 - 00;35;08;10
Summer
Thinking.

00;35;08;12 - 00;35;34;23
James
As I was watching it, I was so drawn in to the visuals that stirred these emotions for me, and it was all over the board. So the movie we're talking about is you and I, and this has been the official selection at American Film Festival, Nashville Film Festival, New Orleans Film Festival, River Run International Film Festival. That's pretty.

00;35;34;23 - 00;35;36;08
Summer
Awesome.

00;35;36;10 - 00;35;42;07
James
Congratulations. And this is a full length feature film. This is not a short.

00;35;42;09 - 00;35;42;29
Summer
No.

00;35;43;02 - 00;35;50;15
James
And you produced this entire thing. And am I correct? It was ten days shooting, 14 days shooting.

00;35;50;15 - 00;35;54;27
Summer
14. 14. Wow. I wrote it and I wrote it in ten days.

00;35;54;27 - 00;36;08;12
James
I was captivated watching it. It drew me in and when I went back to do some research and I was watching the trailer, I was so impressed that the choices were made not to have dialog on the trailer.

00;36;08;13 - 00;36;09;29
Summer
Oh thank you.

00;36;10;01 - 00;36;29;01
James
I feel that that rawness, that those emotions, that that moment, that you were trying to draw us into as a writer and a director absolutely gets hit and shown in that trailer, and it just explodes when you get to watch it on the screen.

00;36;29;04 - 00;36;51;28
Summer
Thank you. I edited that trailer. I had not seen that many trailers in my life that didn't have words. But one thing I learned so many things from my costar and colleagues in life and, you know, show, don't tell. I don't think we should underestimate an audience at the emotion is that palpable and raw people will feel it.

00;36;51;28 - 00;37;14;26
Summer
You don't have to hit them over the head with it. One thing I never wanted to do, and I'm proud that everyone involved didn't either, is that I never underestimated my audience at all. To sit in moments long takes. Not super cutie. I didn't feel the need to speed through moments of silence. I mean, this is life. That's what happens in life.

00;37;14;26 - 00;37;21;10
Summer
To be honest, some of my most like moments in life is sometimes when people are just set, they're not said anything.

00;37;21;12 - 00;37;44;12
James
Well, and I think that's where the power that I was getting in my emotions, because I was given time to think, I was given time to equate my own experiences into what I'm watching, really was a great watch. I so enjoyed it. I want to ask the question because everyone's always okay, what's the genre? Do you see this is a love story.

00;37;44;12 - 00;37;50;21
James
Do you see this is a drama? How do you kind of call it?

00;37;50;23 - 00;38;14;21
Summer
I call it a romance or a romantic drama. If I have to fill out forms from places, which I often do with film festivals and different things, it's like, oh, what genre are you? I always check romance, drama, romantic drama. A dear colleague said, Summer, you're just going to have to suck it up. And on the fact you made a steamy love story and I said, okay, sure, what?

00;38;14;21 - 00;38;21;13
Summer
I'll, I'll own it. But yeah, I definitely think it's a love story. 1,000%. Absolutely.

00;38;21;16 - 00;38;55;21
James
Yeah. It was a wonderful opportunity to watch the relationships between all of these characters get woven together as we start to find out pieces of history, and it was so beautifully captured, I loved it, I absolutely loved it. When you have this out in the world now, which everyone you can check the show notes. It's streaming on Amazon, Apple TV plus, it's on Vimeo, Fandango.

00;38;55;22 - 00;38;56;29
James
How does that feel?

00;38;57;01 - 00;39;22;14
Summer
A bit of relief, to be honest with you. It feels like I've sent my child off to college and now it's got to make a life for itself. Sometimes I'm not going to lie, it's a little depressing because I worry. Will it get seen? Will people find it? You talked about Award. We launched this online December 3rd, which was, you know, right at the height of all the awards seasons and major festivals releasing things.

00;39;22;14 - 00;39;50;12
Summer
And it's been really hard to get any publicity for the film press outlets and people passing on it, telling me it's too small for them or they're just too busy. You hear that? It can be disheartening. So sometimes it gets depressing in those ways. But I'm also really proud that I do feel like it's not that I've closed a book, but I definitely feel like I've stuck bit.

00;39;50;15 - 00;40;13;10
Summer
I'm able to start a new chapter of my life now that this is out there in the world, it's done what I wanted it to do, which it. And by that I mean I finished it and it's available for the world to see if they find it. So now it's no longer mine, it's other people's again, I think sometimes you love it, sometimes you got to let it go.

00;40;13;10 - 00;40;32;00
Summer
It is so personal to me and I have put so much of my life, work, time, money into the film and now it's got to be its own thing and I can't really keep thinking of it as mine anymore. It's not mine. It's it's the worlds. Hopefully to enjoy maybe what?

00;40;32;01 - 00;40;45;12
James
And hopefully we can get more people to find this because it really I hope so. It is really worthy of watching. Now you have turned another chapter. This is behind you. Does that mean you'll make more film?

00;40;45;13 - 00;41;06;09
Summer
I hope so. I would like to. I would love to. I also feel confident that I'm capable of doing it. It's not just like I've done it, but like, you know, when you make a movie, it's like, it's a lot. It's a lot emotionally. It's a lot just in general. But I at least feel I know what I'm capable of doing.

00;41;06;09 - 00;41;24;03
Summer
And I've accepted that. I can't always control whether I'll be able to keep doing it. And I have to be okay with that. This is not a job, or you can just apply online and always get like, you got the job, you can make the movie. It's not like that. Like you got to raise the money. You got to get the actors attached.

00;41;24;03 - 00;41;46;13
Summer
You gotta write the script. Like all these things have to perfectly line up for you to just even had the opportunity to make the film. And I don't take that for granted, and I know how special that is, and I'll always be grateful that I got to do that. And I will probably feel even beyond grateful if I get to do it again.

00;41;46;14 - 00;42;06;01
Summer
Like to be able to do it twice and live three times like I would, I have no idea how it would feel like, you know, you see people that have made like three, 4 or 5 and 20 movies like that fiscus to be their livelihood every day. And I would love to know what it's like to sustain myself as a filmmaker.

00;42;06;01 - 00;42;31;10
Summer
And then I don't have to wake up in the morning and worry about how am I going to pay for my health insurance, how am I going to pay for groceries? Cannot afford my phone bill. Can I buy how? I would love to know that I don't have to worry about those things because I can sustain myself as an artist, but I don't necessarily know that that's in my purview anytime soon that I get to think that way unless I get lucky.

00;42;31;12 - 00;42;48;21
James
Well, and I sort of feel that you're already lucky you've been able to tell this story. And I think that, you know, talking with you, you really exude this excitement. It feels that you're happy with this place right now.

00;42;48;24 - 00;43;11;21
Summer
I'm happy with the film. I made the film that I wanted to make. And as a producer, usually at the end of every film, that's the one question I ask the director, and that will determine to me if we were successful or not. Did the director make the film they wanted to make? And I know that I'm able to say without a shadow of a doubt, I made the film that I wanted to make.

00;43;11;24 - 00;43;45;27
Summer
The film is of the vision and voice that I wanted to share. It's out there and I'm very proud of myself for doing it. It hasn't been easy. I've lost a lot in the process of making this film, and so that's hard to deal with as well. When you create something that's so beautiful and that you're proud of, but you also are creating it during a time where, you know, I did go through the all these health obstacles, sadly, no longer married and parents are aging and there's so many like real life things around me that just put in perspective to me.

00;43;45;27 - 00;44;02;27
Summer
Like I put so much weight on whether, you know, is this film going to like, save my career per se? You know, I thought I'd never make a movie again and, you know, put so much weight on the film saving my career, when in reality it just kind of saved myself. I've got to be something.

00;44;03;00 - 00;44;28;19
James
That's absolutely wonderful. And it does come through in this film. Summer, thank you so much for spending some time with me today. This has been exciting. I was looking forward to this conversation. I will make sure that for the audience, all of the links will be out in the show notes and absolutely everybody take a chance, especially this month of February.

00;44;28;19 - 00;44;37;07
James
Give yourself a treat. Watch this movie. It really is beautifully filmed and summer, you have done an amazing job. Thank you, thank you.

00;44;37;07 - 00;44;47;21
Summer
It's a great day. Like, February, Valentine's Day thing. You know, better to think about love and past love and the what ifs and you know, all that in between.

00;44;47;24 - 00;44;52;14
James
Yes. Thank you again, Summer. I look forward to talking to you again soon.

00;44;52;17 - 00;44;54;24
Summer
Thank you.

00;44;54;27 - 00;45;23;07
James
Thanks for joining us for this insightful conversation with Summer Shelton. Her journey from North Carolina to the world of independent filmmaking is a testament to perseverance and passion. “You and I” is a film that proves big stories can be told with small budgets, and summer's work continues to push the boundaries of storytelling. You can follow summer's work and stay updated on you and I by checking out the links in the episode description.

00;45;23;09 - 00;45;58;15
James
“You and I” is currently streaming on Apple TV+, Amazon, Vimeo, and Fandango. If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to rate and review lattes and art on your favorite podcast platform. It really helps more listeners discover these conversations. And if you haven't already, hit that follow or subscribe button so that you never miss an episode. You can also connect with us on social media for behind the scenes content, episode updates, and more discussions about art, creativity, and storytelling.

00;45;58;17 - 00;46;09;16
James
Find all the links in the episode description. Until next time, keep creating. Keep questioning and as always, stay inspired. See you in the next episode.