Desert X 2025

Join us for a stroll through Desert X 2025 as we explore the powerful, playful, and poetic installations scattered across the Coachella Valley. In this episode, host James William Moore is joined by three friends and fellow art lovers—Ellen Pirosh, Susan LeBlanc, and Jeff Snyder—each bringing their unique lens to the experience.

From Ellen’s takes and discoveries to Susan’s emotional insights, and Jeff’s design-savvy reflections at Sunnylands and The Living Pyramid, this episode captures the joy of discovering art in unexpected places. Whether you’ve walked Desert X yourself or you’re exploring it vicariously, this is a journey worth tuning in for.

Desert X runs through May 11, 2025—don’t miss it! Be sure to download the app for maps, locations, and artist statements

DesertX.org

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 0:51 Ellen Pirosh
• 17:40 Susan LeBlanc
• 31:31 Jeff Snyder
• 44:48 Conclusion

Transcript

00;00;05;10 - 00;00;42;25
James
Welcome to Lattes & Art, presented by J-Squared Atelier. The podcast for creativity brews conversation. In this episode, we hit the road, or more accurately, the desert trails. For a spectacular look at Desert X 25. Join me, James William Moore, as I explore this year's installations through the eyes of three art loving companions. Together, we share honest reactions, unexpected laughs, and moments of, as we walk through the Coachella Valleys most intriguing and sometimes puzzling site specific artworks.

00;00;42;27 - 00;01;18;17
James
So grab your ice slot, take your sunhat and your curiosity. This is lattes and Art, presented by J-Squared Atelier. First up, rejoining Ellen, Pirosh lover of all things fabulous, artistic, and just a little bit offbeat as she takes us on a stroll through the Desert X installations with her signature mix of curiosity and sass. Ellen brings a fresh perspective to each piece we encounter, whether it's marveling at scale, questioning the meaning, or cracking a well-timed joke.

00;01;18;19 - 00;01;47;11
James
Ellen reminds us that the art isn't just about interpretation. It's about experience. Let's follow her into the desert and see what catches her eye. Ellen, thank you so much for being here with me today and for journeying through some of the Desert X earlier this week. I appreciated that. I really love the fact that you did this not because you have a background in art, but because you appreciate art.

00;01;47;13 - 00;02;00;25
Ellen
I'm definitely an appreciator of art. The fine arts, theater. But I'm not an artist. I wish I was, but I just have so much, appreciation and love for art.

00;02;00;28 - 00;02;14;01
James
Well, and being able to get out in our desert. Right. Because we live here in the Coachella Valley. And it's kind of amazing that we're given this opportunity to just wander the space and go see this stuff.

00;02;14;03 - 00;02;41;29
Ellen
It's really wonderful because there's no charge. You can stay as long as you want. Even when you go see the one that's at the, Sunnylands estate, you can just walk in. There's no charge. Nobody rushes you. You can really take your time at every exhibit to touch because you can't touch any art. And most places we go look at all the intricacies of the piece.

00;02;42;01 - 00;02;46;17
Ellen
And it's just right out there at our, you know, just at our disposal.

00;02;46;18 - 00;03;02;11
James
We started at Serem Hoyas. Truth arrives in slanted beams, and this is the one that's that cement pathway that leads us out to the desert and it ribbons through the sand. What do you think of that one?

00;03;02;16 - 00;03;28;02
Ellen
Yeah, that one, you know, had a lot of different meanings also. And, that's the one that had the words when you would move the pedestals, you can touch and move the pedestals and see the words and it you feel you can, you can smell the creosote bushes as you're walking around. And it just invokes a lot of thoughts about truth, about life.

00;03;28;06 - 00;03;32;01
Ellen
And there you are, right in the middle of the desert, on off of a main street.

00;03;32;02 - 00;03;33;01
Susan
Well, it's steps.

00;03;33;01 - 00;03;46;16
James
Away right from that boulevard. Yeah. And the artists spent so much time tracking how the sun moves, because part of the installation includes these almost modernized sundials.

00;03;46;16 - 00;03;47;01
Ellen
Yes.

00;03;47;01 - 00;03;49;12
James
To let you be part of the art.

00;03;49;15 - 00;04;10;24
Ellen
And that's what makes the words. Yeah, that that was really, really fun to to walk around it and sit on it and read those words as they go by. And if you go at a different time of the day because of the sun kind of acting like the sundial, we'll have, you know, different shapes and rippling of water looking like the bottom of a swimming pool.

00;04;11;01 - 00;04;23;19
James
Yeah, that was the amazing part they had. They had pounded into this, this reflective metal that was on these plates that we were able to tilt to get the sun to reflect like we used to as kids.

00;04;23;19 - 00;04;25;12
Ellen
Yeah. And until.

00;04;25;12 - 00;04;31;14
James
It's interesting, when art allows us to interact with it, it changes our impression of it, doesn't.

00;04;31;14 - 00;04;43;07
Ellen
It? Yes. And all of these, you can interact and take some time to figure out unless you want to read the narratives, but it takes some time to figure out what's what. It's all what the meaning is.

00;04;43;10 - 00;04;57;23
James
Well, and we ran into some other people that morning, and the gentleman before us kind of figured it out, but it was by himself, so it wasn't fully getting the experience. And had we not talk to those ladies that came in behind us, they probably would have never guessed it.

00;04;57;23 - 00;05;13;22
Ellen
Yeah, it's it's challenging when it's thought provoking. Of course, which is great. But the real and then another thing is that I'm just so thankful that we are allowed in this country to have public art like that, and to interact with it at no, no fee.

00;05;13;24 - 00;05;45;27
James
Well, and that's the accessibility, right? That's this idea that art should be accessible. There's no reason for it not to be. We've been creating art since the beginning of man, and we have cave drawings and all of this stuff. And there's part of Desert X that I feel like we go back to that a little bit, back to those cave drawings, to the petroglyphs and things that we're stepping out into these and ancient grounds, and we're experiencing art that's bringing us into that space.

00;05;45;27 - 00;06;12;07
James
I want to move us to those because you got to drive around. This is not something that you can walk between the locations that truly the installations are all throughout the Coachella Valley. And as we were coming back from the Palm Desert area to see the ones that were up by Desert Hot Springs, we drove up Gene Autry Trail to see the billboards.

00;06;12;07 - 00;06;14;19
James
Yes, those were a little tough to see, weren't there?

00;06;14;19 - 00;06;27;29
Ellen
Yes, because there's no where to really pull over. Yeah, the busy street. There's just no place to pull over. And even if there was, there's lots there's usually a lot of sand piling up. But yeah, there's no place. So you have to catch it while you're driving.

00;06;28;01 - 00;06;40;14
James
Those of you that aren't from the area, we get wind, a lot of wind, which is why we have windmills. But we get these sands that blow in and they close to the main feeder roads into the Palm Springs area.

00;06;40;14 - 00;06;41;24
Ellen
Frequently all.

00;06;41;24 - 00;06;59;27
James
The time. And unfortunately, because of that happening, there's really no way there's no shoulder on that road. There's no where to park out safely from the traffic that's flying by it 60 miles an hour to get into town. The next one we stopped at was Soul Service Station. What do you think of that one?

00;07;00;04 - 00;07;25;00
Ellen
Well, I don't like to have a favorite because they're all spectacular, but that one had, I think, maybe my favorite because there is a lot of interaction that you could do there, can pick up the pump on the gas tank and hear a recording. And it was a lot about healing. Healing that's also set in the vortex. There's a vortex here in the desert that sort of goes from where that is down to Palm Springs.

00;07;25;03 - 00;07;39;29
Ellen
And it's it's kind of a magical thing. And, that piece was a lot about dreams and challenges of life and hope, and it also had its own art in there. The pounding, pounded metal.

00;07;40;06 - 00;08;05;09
James
So the artist, Allison saw the write up that they have on the Desert X website says that her work weaves personal and cultural narratives, drawing inspiration from spiritual traditions, mythology and African disparate histories while uncovering the hidden potential of found materials. And you touched on this a little bit, right? There was the gas pump. So the audience kind of gets a visual of this.

00;08;05;11 - 00;08;30;10
James
It is in the middle of nowhere, and it's this old style gas station that has been created just off the road outside of Desert Hot Springs. And as you pull up to it, there's a pump. There's an old gas station pond with overhang that you would pull your car through. And behind that was the station, right? And everything was gathered.

00;08;30;13 - 00;08;48;29
James
Nothing was made new for this. The artist goes out and finds these pieces and creates these assemblages to have this amazing installation. And you touched on soul and on healing and on histories and things. This piece really gets that, doesn't it?

00;08;48;29 - 00;09;08;02
Ellen
It really does. And the soul station, the gas station, so to speak, was to give people a rest when they're traveling. And just being in there, you kind of have like a mental rest from life. Breathe and take a rest from all the craziness in life.

00;09;08;04 - 00;09;19;28
James
One of the things I was impressed with this artist's piece is that she worked with local school children to create mores, which are those impressions? Metal?

00;09;19;28 - 00;09;21;15
Ellen
Pieces of metal? Yeah.

00;09;21;18 - 00;09;40;26
James
And those turned into the ceiling tiles and into the wall tiles. And the fact that we have this artist that's included these children in this installation, their hand was a part of it. And the accessibility, now that we can all just step up and see this, it's kind of amazing.

00;09;41;00 - 00;09;45;18
Ellen
See it, touch it, ponder think about things.

00;09;45;21 - 00;10;06;15
James
Well, and you're curious, you know, we were all wandering around and peeking in windows and looking at the, the mannequin that was inside a mannequin. And you walk up to the gas pump and pick up the pump that had, like, this conch shell or, a nautilus shell. And you started hearing something, right?

00;10;06;15 - 00;10;07;09
Ellen
Yes.

00;10;07;12 - 00;10;11;24
James
There was like an essay. She was reading poetry. How cool is that?

00;10;11;24 - 00;10;17;00
Ellen
That was kind of meant to think about, you know, life. Take a break. That's what that was all about.

00;10;17;00 - 00;10;21;12
James
Now, wasn't there an object also that was in the center of the gas tank?

00;10;21;14 - 00;10;22;17
Ellen
The heart? Yeah, the.

00;10;22;17 - 00;10;26;23
James
Heart. Right. But again, we think of our heart as part of our soul, right?

00;10;26;23 - 00;10;27;03
Ellen
Yeah.

00;10;27;03 - 00;10;27;28
James
And and.

00;10;27;28 - 00;10;29;01
Ellen
Absolutely.

00;10;29;03 - 00;10;38;00
James
And weary travelers, these gas stations were just such a reprieve for them when they could find it.

00;10;38;02 - 00;10;47;08
Ellen
And in those days that that was supposed to be in gas stations were so different. I mean, it was more personal. You'd have to go in, you know?

00;10;47;15 - 00;10;48;20
James
Well, they puncture gas.

00;10;48;20 - 00;10;55;20
Ellen
Pump the gas, and you have to have interaction with a person. Yeah, nothing like today.

00;10;55;20 - 00;10;56;20
James
Oh, gosh. No at.

00;10;56;20 - 00;11;03;22
Ellen
All. And so those days, it's kind of holding on to how life was in those days.

00;11;03;22 - 00;11;25;19
James
So then as we departed there, we kind of circled around to head back down into the Palm Springs area. We saw Jose de Villa's The Act of Being Together. Yeah. These were those incredible marble pieces that were stacked and kind of propped against one another, but they were huge. You remember that? Wow.

00;11;25;19 - 00;11;43;27
Ellen
They were huge. And the marble was cold to the touch. That was, amazing how they could be stacked and not fall over because I don't even know how they got. Oh, I know how, but they got all those huge pieces together.

00;11;44;00 - 00;11;47;12
James
Well, and that's not their original location.

00;11;47;12 - 00;11;48;03
Ellen
Oh yes.

00;11;48;03 - 00;12;07;27
James
Right. We read in the write up for this one that these had immigrated up from Mexico. They had been brought in over the border to be placed. And it's sort of telling of our times right now that we all come from different areas and from different places.

00;12;07;29 - 00;12;08;14
Ellen
Yes.

00;12;08;14 - 00;12;17;08
James
And and we come together kind of like the title says being together. We all come together as one, which these days those did.

00;12;17;08 - 00;12;27;14
Ellen
Absolutely. They're all different, obviously. Like, we all are different and, different stances that people have. Yeah, we're all together.

00;12;27;16 - 00;12;28;14
James
It's just crazy.

00;12;28;14 - 00;12;33;22
Ellen
You made a big trip from Mexico. Yeah. Those I can't even imagine.

00;12;33;24 - 00;12;51;20
James
Well, I can't even fathom getting those things stacked. The thing with Palm Springs, we have these big, huge skies, right? And we look out to the east, and it's like that blue just goes on forever.

00;12;51;20 - 00;12;52;19
Ellen
Yes.

00;12;52;21 - 00;13;03;29
James
And that's where Sanford Biggers and Suey was. These were the 30ft high clouds that had the reflective mirrors on them. What was your impression of that?

00;13;03;29 - 00;13;16;13
Ellen
They were high up. I mean, you have to stretch your neck to look up to those. And they had the reflective items on there that, and changed like clouds change.

00;13;16;20 - 00;13;29;08
James
Again, the wind changes. Yeah. The sun changes. How those catch the light is going to change. The day we went, it was unusually calm, wasn't it? Yes.

00;13;29;08 - 00;13;44;14
Ellen
Because usually up there it's very close to the windmills for a reason, because there's a lot of wind and sometimes it gets dark all of a sudden when clouds can go behind the mountain and then it gets sunny again.

00;13;44;16 - 00;14;13;01
James
Sanford Biggers and Suey translates to mirror features these two towering sequence sculptures on the desert sky clouds. They are in the shape of clouds is a recurring motif in Biggers work and symbolizes freedom, timelessness and interconnection. Is that what you walked away with this one? Did you get freedom, boundless ness and interconnection?

00;14;13;03 - 00;14;20;00
Ellen
I got interconnection just because the fact that they change constantly depending on the elements and the environment.

00;14;20;00 - 00;14;28;20
James
I think when we were there that day and we were talking, this was the one that I think we weren't is connected to as the others.

00;14;28;26 - 00;14;44;09
Ellen
Yeah. I didn't I didn't feel as connected at all. I, I liked it and it was pretty genius the way that, that it was constructed. But I would say that it's not on the top of my list of the ones that I saw.

00;14;44;11 - 00;14;50;05
James
It's okay to say that. Yes, remember that I still have a tarot card. That's judgment. Oh.

00;14;50;07 - 00;14;52;20
Ellen
And and I a share that day.

00;14;52;23 - 00;15;25;11
James
Yeah, I love that. I want to jump now to the one that we saw last. And this is the one that's by Ronald Rael. And it's called Adobe Oasis. This is the one that there's this long palm tree and this vacant lot down on the south end of Palm Springs. And the artist used new technology and 3D printing and Adobe dirt to create the walls that were around the palm tree.

00;15;25;14 - 00;15;27;03
James
Talk to me about that one.

00;15;27;05 - 00;15;54;03
Ellen
Yeah, that one was one of my favorites, and I think that they should keep that one permanently too, just because it's right. You know, there's there's nothing like immediately next to it. But around there's, you know, condos and in Palm Springs trying to reemerge as like a lot of concrete and modern, not modernism but just modern day. But that that's fascinating the way that he did that one.

00;15;54;03 - 00;16;18;17
James
It's interesting too. You called out the concrete that surrounds that space like it's in the middle of a dirt lot, but there's a parking lot there, and there's curbs and sidewalks. And that Del Ronald Rails work engages with more than 10,000 years of person building history, offering a compelling counterpoint to the environmental impact of modern architecture. Like what we're talking about here.

00;16;18;17 - 00;16;46;17
James
We celebrate modernism architecture here in Palm Springs. But that means we have paved lots, sidewalks, cement, concrete. We have all of these other things. But he's using this Adobe Oasis as a powerful alternative that highlights the potential of using this style of earth, of materials and the climate crisis we're in, but using technology to build it. It was wild.

00;16;46;17 - 00;16;49;08
James
Remember the weave that was in the mud?

00;16;49;13 - 00;16;58;23
Ellen
Yes, that was fascinating. But the Adobe, I mean, that's we don't have anything like that here. But in the southwest they still have Adobe structures.

00;16;58;29 - 00;17;07;28
James
And their fireproof. Yes. And they are cool inside. Yeah. It was an amazing piece that's so unassuming. And that vacant lot.

00;17;07;29 - 00;17;08;18
Ellen
Yes.

00;17;08;18 - 00;17;10;18
James
I'm with you. I do hope that they keep it.

00;17;10;18 - 00;17;24;24
Ellen
They should really keep it because I don't know, eventually they might use the lot for put up more condos. But but it is it is kind of just looking around and seeing them. There's the mountain there which is spectacular right there. But then you got the condos, the hotel, the street cars going.

00;17;24;24 - 00;17;25;21
James
By, all that.

00;17;25;21 - 00;17;26;04
Ellen
Stuff.

00;17;26;04 - 00;17;36;27
James
Yeah, we are so lucky in the space that we are here and Coachella Valley. And I think many times many of us take it for granted. Again, thank you all and we'll see you.

00;17;37;00 - 00;17;40;04
Ellen
Thank you.

00;17;40;07 - 00;18;11;16
James
Now we turn to Susan LeBlanc, whose walk through Desert X is less about analyzing and more about feeling as a cardiac ICU nurse, Susan is no stranger to the depths of human experience, and that quiet wisdom shows in how she approaches each piece. Her reflections are thoughtful, personal, and often unexpected, reminding us that art can be a mirror, a comfort, or a quiet companion.

00;18;11;18 - 00;18;31;21
James
With Susan, it's not just about what you see. It's about what moves you. Let's join her on this contemplative journey through the desert. Sue, thank you so much for joining me today and talking about our venture we had earlier this week with Desert Ax. It was so much fun getting out to see those.

00;18;31;27 - 00;18;43;14
Susan
It was incredible to know that all of this art is in our own backyard, accessible to everyone. Go in groups or go on your own.

00;18;43;19 - 00;19;09;01
James
Right. Our backyard, the Coachella Valley. We are so blessed to live in such an amazing space to start with. With the arts and the visual of the desert. But then having these public installations happen, and how easy it was for us to get from place to place and enjoy each one separately. It was so much fun. I want to start with that first one that we went to.

00;19;09;02 - 00;19;16;26
James
Truth arrives and Slanted Beams. This is the one where you and I were laughing and you were pulling on the sundial piece.

00;19;16;28 - 00;19;19;27
Susan
Right? It was so interactive.

00;19;19;29 - 00;19;21;29
James
Which art usually isn't.

00;19;22;02 - 00;19;45;19
Susan
Totally not. And I really wouldn't have gotten it unless somebody cleverer than me, such as yourself, said, oh, you figured out that if we turn this and move this towards the sun, we'll get a word. So it was incredible to me to go around all of them. I had to discover the word and where it was best in the shadow.

00;19;45;20 - 00;19;56;15
James
Well, and had we not read the artist's statement that was on the website for Desert X, we probably wouldn't have gotten there to begin with.

00;19;56;17 - 00;20;00;04
Susan
No, it probably would have been one I would have overlooked.

00;20;00;07 - 00;20;20;14
James
Yeah, I loved how much fun it was, realizing almost the playfulness of finding how the disks could be tilted, the sundials, and then the other thing, and Elon talked a little bit about this, about how it felt like the reflections were under water.

00;20;20;16 - 00;20;35;01
Susan
Yes, totally. And you read about that, that it was under water. And I had forgotten that you had said that. So when I looked up, I saw the wave movement of the cement, but then it almost looked like skywriting to me.

00;20;35;01 - 00;20;59;06
James
When we were coming to this piece, the truth arrives and slanted beams. There was a pathway, a cement sidewalk that led us to it, that the sidewalk continued and became this ribbon into the desert. It. And I like your analogy of skywriting, because even that felt flowy, like the clouds and just airy and the movement of it all.

00;20;59;11 - 00;21;13;25
Susan
Yes, there was so much movement to it, and the fact that we could move things to make the images more clear or the writing better was incredible to me. I never seen art like that.

00;21;13;27 - 00;21;37;01
James
Well, and this idea that art being accessible and, you know, we go to museums and we're not supposed to touch the statues or the paintings and this kind of thing, but this whole set of exhibits, every last one we went to was accessible. It was about engaging with it. Yang a part of it even.

00;21;37;04 - 00;21;41;10
Susan
And the more you touched it, the more things you realized about it.

00;21;41;10 - 00;22;08;22
James
Right? Which is kind of how life plays out. Right? The more we investigate, the more we play with something, the more we learn. Totally. It was such a great day. Yes, I want to move to one that you really fell in love with. And this is Jose Douglas, the act of being together. These were those oversize marble pieces that had been placed out where we have the windmill farms.

00;22;08;24 - 00;22;14;17
James
Tell me what your sensation was with this particular installation.

00;22;14;20 - 00;22;50;07
Susan
When I first walked up to it, I got the feeling because these pieces of rock were huge. They were like the size of a stone used to build the pyramids. They were taller than me. How they got them there, how they manipulated them into place. Some of them smooth, some of them you could see the cuts into the marble, and some of them just totally natural, like art was going to emerge from these pieces.

00;22;50;08 - 00;23;02;19
James
Well, you even equated it to the feeling of the visual that we get with the Martin Luther King Jr piece that's in Washington, D.C., where he's emerging from this piece of granite. Right.

00;23;02;24 - 00;23;43;22
Susan
Exactly. I just felt like there was more art in those rocks that were yet to be revealed, and you could almost see in the rough places the crystals of the pattern of the marble, like a countertop. But yet it was in its total natural feel. And also the cold stone of marble. While I was standing in 85 degree weather, the sun beating on my back and my hands totally cold from the marble was just such a sensory excitement.

00;23;43;25 - 00;24;16;14
James
And interacting with this where exactly? It's kind of wild. So they travel, they immigrated to this place there. It wasn't their origin, but they felt like they felt like it belonged in this environment. It was different than the cement piece that we saw first, because there we could see the hand of man that built this. The artists that came up with the concept and we have the cement walkway, but then we move on to this one.

00;24;16;17 - 00;24;21;29
James
And other than us trying to figure out how they got stacked. It was just fascinating.

00;24;22;01 - 00;24;36;02
Susan
It was totally mind boggling to me. First of all, that somebody would move these beautiful pieces out of their original form into this artwork. To me that it was just amazing.

00;24;36;02 - 00;25;11;08
James
When we go to a museum, we don't typically get this sort of engagement with art because it's hanging on a wall. It's a statue in a solarium or a hallway, and don't touch. But here we are in the open desert with the big sky behind us and these amazing marble pieces that we were able to engage with and and the conversations we were hearing of the other people that were coming along and seeing this stuff was fascinating.

00;25;11;11 - 00;25;42;24
Susan
It truly was. And the fact that everybody was getting something from it. When you go to a museum, you'll see the name of the artist, the name of the picture, and the year possibly, but you won't really get a description unless you delve into that artist a lot more. Whereas this with the application that came with it, we got a huge description of what the artist was going for.

00;25;42;26 - 00;25;51;17
Susan
So then we could see if it was relatable to us or that went right over my head kind of feeling well.

00;25;51;17 - 00;26;17;07
James
And that happened with you. When we went to the Soul Service station, you mentioned how, you know, you were so intrigued by this building, this gas station that has been built in the desert off the side of this road leading into Desert Hot Springs. But had we not read the artist's intention, you might have not got what she was trying to get to.

00;26;17;13 - 00;26;25;26
Susan
I wouldn't have for sure. I wouldn't of, especially at the end. Elon picked up the,

00;26;25;28 - 00;26;27;01
James
The conch shell, the.

00;26;27;01 - 00;26;40;23
Susan
Conch shell, which was the gas pump. Gas pump. Exactly. She picked up that and it had a whole rap. And the beat of that rap to me brought everything together.

00;26;40;23 - 00;26;43;16
James
Inside of that gas pump was a heart.

00;26;43;23 - 00;26;44;12
Susan
Yes.

00;26;44;12 - 00;26;47;13
James
Kind of the heart or soul of that station.

00;26;47;17 - 00;26;48;04
Susan
Right.

00;26;48;04 - 00;27;14;25
James
And that's what those words were kind of bringing to us in that beat that you called out. Right. It's that it's that heart beat that is bringing us into this space to rejuvenate ourselves and, you know, feed our soul. It was such a lovely day. And one of the things when we stopped to take a break because we saw, I don't know what eight of these instills nations.

00;27;14;28 - 00;27;26;09
James
And we stopped at crudo and had some lunch. And one of the things that came up at lunch, you mentioned about how the sun played a part to so many of these pieces.

00;27;26;09 - 00;27;53;24
Susan
Exactly. We went in late morning, so the sun was fairly high, so the shadows weren't as long. But I kept thinking, if we had gone in the afternoon, how much longer the shadows might have been, how much more spread out those letters of the words might have been, and how much more the desert would have played into the art.

00;27;53;27 - 00;28;00;25
Susan
Being that we have very long shadows in the afternoon here at this time of year.

00;28;01;02 - 00;28;18;00
James
It's almost like the art was alive. Exactly right. I mean, there's this, you know, there's the beat, there's the rhythm, there's the reflections, there's all of these things that were going on. But it's almost as if they themselves were alive and changed as we do throughout the day.

00;28;18;02 - 00;28;18;20
Susan
Correct.

00;28;18;25 - 00;28;20;04
James
It was so much fun.

00;28;20;04 - 00;28;49;01
Susan
Yes. And the thing about the beat that I wanted to mention was all the words and the beat gave me this sense of feeling good. And then part of the lyrics of this rap and part of the sentiment of that artwork was a feel good station, a feeling station to fill your soul. And that made so much sense to me once I finished the whole art piece.

00;28;49;04 - 00;29;28;23
James
Well, and I love that one in particular, because the artist Alison SA used local schoolchildren to help build this and everything was reclaimed or found. There was nothing that was purchased new to go into this assemblage, but the fact that she was using community and young children to build the the metal impressions that were then being installed into this, just brings that much more life and soul to this piece, because it really is the heart of what art does for us.

00;29;28;25 - 00;29;41;21
James
I loved spending the day with you, and it was such a great time. And one of the things you talked about and this hit home for me too, was how it felt healing and restful.

00;29;41;21 - 00;30;09;09
Susan
It really did. I mean, it was a long day. We had to trek out from where we would park to wherever the art was. It was a warm day, so you would naturally think that it was just, hot, bothersome, exhausting day. But when we sat down to lunch, I felt very zen and very together and like it was a perfect day.

00;30;09;10 - 00;30;14;11
Susan
So for me, it a perfect day is always healing and restful.

00;30;14;13 - 00;30;38;22
James
Well, in this valley, that's kind of what is the soul of this valley. We have the, you know, vortexes or the aquifer that feeds the spores and the hot springs, but there is something healing about this valley. And I think this particular edition of Desert Acts plays very well into that idea.

00;30;38;25 - 00;31;06;10
Susan
Yes, I would say so. I mean, the energy can be very high here, and yet you still feel like you got a vacation when you came out to the desert from another busy city or a cold climate. I've just heard so many people say the energy out here is totally different than anywhere else in the world, and I personally love that.

00;31;06;12 - 00;31;27;21
James
Well, and I agree with it because I feel the healthiest when I'm here. Being able to spend the day with you and Ellen and wandering through those spaces and enjoying the art was truly a delight. Sue, thank you so much for this. I hope you hold on to these memories and that we get another chance to do this again.

00;31;27;25 - 00;31;31;27
Susan
I hope so too. Thank you.

00;31;31;29 - 00;31;59;21
James
Now it's time to follow Jeff Snyder, who is always up for an adventure as he explores the iconic grounds of Sunnylands and reflects the living Pyramid, one of Desert Ax's most talked about installations. With his keen eye for design and a knack for asking the questions we're all thinking, Jeff brings a grounded and insightful perspective to this unique blend of art, nature and legacy.

00;31;59;23 - 00;32;27;10
James
Whether he's marveling at the symmetry of the Annenberg State or considering the meaning behind a pyramid made of earth and plants, Jeff reminds us that art is sometimes best experienced with curiosity and a really good pair of walking shoes. But before we get into his reflections, let me introduce Sunnylands and the Annenberg Foundation a legacy of Art, diplomacy and vision.

00;32;27;13 - 00;33;04;24
James
Nestled in the heart of Rancho Mirage, Sunnylands is more than just a striking estate with mid-century modern architecture and impeccable gardens. It's a cultural and diplomatic landmark. Originally the renter home of Walter and Leonore Annenberg, Sunnylands has hosted presidents Royal and world leaders for over half a century. It's been affectionately called the Camp David of the West, where conversations have shaped global policies and setting design to encourage openness, reflection and collaboration.

00;33;04;27 - 00;33;33;18
James
But the story behind Sunnylands doesn't stop at politics. Through the Annenberg Foundation Trust. The estate has evolved into a center for education, diplomacy, and the arts. The Annenberg were passionate patrons of the arts, and their vision continues today with programs that include art exhibitions, cultural programing, and partnerships like those with desert Acts, bringing thoughtful, site specific art to the Coachella Valley landscape.

00;33;33;25 - 00;34;04;26
James
The Sunnylands Center and Gardens, open to the public, continues to embody the Annenberg belief and beauty access and meaningful dialog, inviting visitors not just to witness art and nature, but to engage with the world around them and deeper, more compassionate ways. Sunnylands isn't just a desert destination. It's a testament to the power of philanthropy, diplomacy, and creative thinking.

00;34;04;29 - 00;34;20;21
James
A place where art and policy meet under the sun, and where I had the pleasure of strolling with Jeff for this conversation. Jeff, thank you so much for joining me this morning out at Sunnylands to see Agnes Dean's The Living Pyramid.

00;34;20;23 - 00;34;22;19
Jeff
Oh, it was my pleasure. I love going out there.

00;34;22;20 - 00;34;32;21
James
That was your first visit out to Sunnylands. So beyond the spectacular ness of that space. What did you actually think about the living pyramid?

00;34;32;23 - 00;34;54;14
Jeff
Well, the piece itself. I thought it was ingenious. I loved how first it looks like it belongs there. There's a great big open space. And this pyramid is built, set back in a wide open lawn area that's designed for you to walk around. And a lot of families were doing exactly that, but it was completely filled with native plants and wild flowers and cactus.

00;34;54;14 - 00;35;01;27
Jeff
And it was designed. What I took away was it was designed to look different every time you come by and from every angle.

00;35;02;04 - 00;35;36;03
James
Well, and that was the intention. Agnes Deans is known for her land art that she does where she did the wheat field in Manhattan. And the idea with this one is you're correct. As time progresses, so does the growth. So does the death of some plants, some recede. It's kind of amazing that each side, I noticed, was a bit different in how much may have grown because of, you know, sometimes the desert sun can be a little harsh, and wildflowers don't always thrive in.

00;35;36;03 - 00;35;55;14
Jeff
That, right? Well, in the morning, sun isn't as fierce as the afternoon sun, so you'll have hardier plants on the west facing side. But the number of flowers that we saw there were cosmos and bachelor buttons and poppies, and there were flower and grasses, and some of them were blooming. Some of them had already gone to seed, some were just beginning.

00;35;55;14 - 00;36;10;26
Jeff
So what I took away was if we come back next month, there will be different colors, there will be different degrees of growth. It's going to be a different installation. And I love it's basically crafting art out of nature or with nature.

00;36;10;27 - 00;36;18;25
James
So I want to talk a minute about Sunnylands and the Annenberg and what that space represents.

00;36;18;25 - 00;36;19;27
Jeff
Amazing facility.

00;36;19;29 - 00;36;48;19
James
Well, and the history that's there of all of the peace talks and negotiations and conversations and think tanks that have shown up in that space. And here we have this piece of art that's formed in a pyramid, which, you know, if you read the artist's statement on the desert site, talks about the mathematical formula of the pyramid and the perfection of it, but then we have these plants and we see how you called it out.

00;36;48;19 - 00;36;58;12
James
They change over time. And that's kind of in keeping with Sunnylands and how peace has changed over time.

00;36;58;16 - 00;37;28;12
Jeff
Well, as a culture, I would hope we're growing just like the plants are growing. And when you walk into the main building at Sunnylands, they have pictures of yet not nearly all of them, but a lot of the famous world leaders who have been through. And there are pictures of sure, many American presidents, but Gorbachev and many others who have come to discuss and negotiate peace and that's a an enormous indicator, I think, of growth of a society that you can actually learn how to get along better with each other.

00;37;28;12 - 00;38;02;23
Jeff
In this case, you're also getting along and understanding nature a little bit better. It was wonderful to see how many kids families with young people were there at Sunnylands just walking in. It's free. The gardens are accessible. The lawn area had building blocks for kids to come and create things to be creative. People were picnicking and just encouraging the kids to enjoy where they were, and it's impossible to walk into that environment and not feel a little bit happier, a little bit more calm, a little bit more, I guess, hopeful that growth happens.

00;38;02;26 - 00;38;24;29
James
You know, you called out the kids that were playing butterfly wings out for them to become part of the, you know, the wildflowers that are growing. But there's an accessibility that we're allowed into the space. You said how it was free. Yes. You can take tours of the historical house and those cost. But there's this space that is absolutely beautiful.

00;38;24;29 - 00;38;33;17
James
And the gardens that there are two different walking tours you can take, and there's a cafe that you can get a coffee or a sandwich, but it's.

00;38;33;23 - 00;38;40;07
Jeff
Designed to bring the public in commons seat and just sit if you'd like, or take more tours.

00;38;40;07 - 00;39;08;28
James
Yeah, accessibility. It was available to all. And I think that's kind of the amazing piece of this one in particular, or that it's falling in line with all of the other Desert X installations, and that they are free to the public. They are public art. And although this is on what is considered private space, the Annenberg Foundation kind of has it as a house of the people that you can come in and be.

00;39;08;28 - 00;39;15;03
Jeff
Easily accessible and open five days a week. I think that, closed on Monday, Tuesday.

00;39;15;05 - 00;39;21;09
James
Tuesday, because when I was trying to tour it earlier this week, couldn't get in on Monday, I was a little bit bored.

00;39;21;10 - 00;39;41;21
Jeff
They have to take a break too, but it's open. It's free to the public, it's accessible and as I understand, that's much of the focus of Desert X overall is putting art out where people are going to see it. And these aren't little sculptures. These Desert X pieces are huge in some cases and are a real investment in the space.

00;39;41;28 - 00;40;07;00
James
Well and Desert X partners, like with the Annenberg Foundation in the sunnylands to be able to have this installation and the fact that it might be permanent, it might not, I think also kind of has a voice to how sunnylands builds on what's going on and bringing people together, and I hope that it stays. We'll see.

00;40;07;07 - 00;40;28;18
Jeff
But the nice thing about Sunnylands is, yes, this is potential for a temporary art exhibit, but there's other art at Sunnylands as well. When you walk into the lobby, there was a Rodin sculpture. There was a Jack, a sculpture. There are paintings, there's photography. It's it's a place designed to bring art to the people, bring people to art.

00;40;28;18 - 00;40;31;29
Jeff
I'm not sure which direction it's meant. As, but it works.

00;40;31;29 - 00;40;33;07
James
It's a living museum.

00;40;33;08 - 00;40;44;21
Jeff
It is. And it's just so in keeping with the whole idea of Desert X, that Annenberg Foundation would choose to host it there as part of just everything they bring to the community.

00;40;44;24 - 00;41;15;21
James
So this piece was installed long before Desert X started mid-March, because it had to be constructed, and it started bearing a white pyramid built in tiers that the seeds had been planted and so forth. But we've now seen it. It's been there for more than a month at this point, probably two. And those of us that are here in the Coachella Valley, we know about the wildflowers and when they come along.

00;41;15;24 - 00;41;18;00
James
But it wasn't just wildflowers in there either.

00;41;18;01 - 00;41;35;29
Jeff
Now, there were cactus, several different varieties, and they were agaves, which may flower later on, as I understand. I think I read that part of the idea of this was not just bringing together all the native plants, but also bringing together people to help manage it. It was a lot of different organizations that showed up to help plant it.

00;41;36;01 - 00;41;44;05
Jeff
Who are, you know, keeping track of it, maintaining it. So again, in keeping with Sunnylands bringing people together for a common good.

00;41;44;09 - 00;42;00;22
James
Well, and that seems to be what Desert X is also attempting because the artists that did Soul Service Station, Alison SA worked with local schoolchildren and brought community in to create the art that is there.

00;42;00;22 - 00;42;01;11
Jeff
I love that.

00;42;01;18 - 00;42;03;24
James
Right. Bring people together through art.

00;42;03;24 - 00;42;14;22
Jeff
And get kids thinking right from the beginning that art is here for all of us and we can all play a role in the art. We're making it. We're helping somebody else make it. An art takes a lot of different forms.

00;42;14;24 - 00;42;41;27
James
What's interesting with Sunnylands is that it is not funded by government agencies. It is completely self-funded through the foundation that the Annenberg family put together. So there's no influence coming from a left or right or middle ground on this. And we really saw that today with all of the the people that were there, the families that were there, the groups, the bicyclists that I took their photograph.

00;42;42;00 - 00;42;50;27
James
It's just interesting that a space like this can exist. And I think hold the true heart of what art is to us as humans.

00;42;51;02 - 00;43;15;10
Jeff
We have to probably we. You probably have to be careful not to make this sound like an advertisement for the Annenberg Foundation, but it really is. They this facility exists, as I understand. Its focus is hosting retreats and getting people together to talk about important stuff, and they don't really have to make it open to the public. They don't have to bring in art, but they choose to.

00;43;15;10 - 00;43;23;03
Jeff
And it's become a big part of the community here. The Coachella Valley sees it as their own.

00;43;23;05 - 00;43;30;03
James
We're proud of this. Oh it's wonderful. Yeah. Any other thoughts that you have that you want to toss out on your visit today?

00;43;30;03 - 00;43;53;25
Jeff
Well, just in general, I like the idea of Desert X, because I don't know whether this is always the theme, but the few pieces I've seen are all about drawing nature in as part of the sculpture. The piece we saw today, the Living pyramid, struck me as sculpting with native plants. Another piece that's out right now. Truth Arrives and slanted beams.

00;43;53;25 - 00;44;12;22
Jeff
I think you discuss that with someone else on this podcast. Earlier it was sculpting with light and seeing what you could do with light. Not just the direct light, but the reflections of light and how you can make it take on different forms. There was another piece earlier on that's gone now called What Remains, which was sculpting with the wind.

00;44;12;28 - 00;44;38;00
Jeff
It was pieces of fabric that were designed to move with just the changing wind currents. And I love the idea that art doesn't have to be what you put on a piece of paper. It can be something designed to work within its environment and change as the sun changes, as the weather changes, as the wind shifts. And I love that idea of at least this round of Desert X, it's playing with where you are.

00;44;38;00 - 00;44;41;26
Jeff
It's appropriate to the desert environment. And I just think that's really cool.

00;44;41;28 - 00;44;44;24
James
Jeff, thank you so much for being with me today. I appreciate your.

00;44;44;24 - 00;44;48;18
Jeff
Input, but my pleasure. Thank you.

00;44;48;21 - 00;45;15;14
James
Thanks for joining us on this sun soaked adventure through Desert X 2025 with Ellen, Susan and Jeff from Playful perspectives and heartfelt reflections, this episode reminds us how powerful art can be, especially when it's out in the open, wild, and woven into the landscape. If you're in the Coachella Valley, don't miss your chance to experience Desert X in person.

00;45;15;16 - 00;45;44;21
James
It runs through May 11th, 2025, and it's completely free to the public. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to like, follow, and share a lot of tastes in art. It helps keep the conversation station going and the coffee flowing. You can find us wherever you listen to podcasts. Until next time, keep your eyes open, your heart curious and your lab taste strong.

00;45;44;24 - 00;45;50;19
James
I'm James William Moore and this has been lattes and Art, presented by J-Squared Atelier.