David Deighton: Triptych Dialogue

What happens when art becomes a tool for conversation, connection, and healing across division?

In this episode of Lattes & Art, James sits down with David Deighton — artist, educator, entrepreneur, world traveler, and creator of Triptych Dialogue — to talk about using art as a way to bring people together in an increasingly fractured world.

David shares how for the past six years, he has created installations in free speech areas at National Parks inviting strangers to engage across difference, listen deeply, and look for common ground.

Together, James and David explore the power of abstract art, public engagement, and meaningful dialogue — especially around subjects many people see as too taboo, too political, or too divisive to touch. This is a conversation about art not just as expression, but as action: a way to rebuild social connection in an age of digital echo chambers.

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Transcript

00;00;08;04 - 00;00;38;14
James
Hello, I'm James William Moore and on today's episode of Lattes & Art, presented by J-Sqaured Atelier, we're sitting down with David Deighton, artist, educator, entrepreneur, father, world traveler, and the creator of triptych dialog, an art experiment built around a question that feels especially urgent right now. How do we talk to one another again about politics? David comes from a background as an art dealer, and the builder of a successful art business.

00;00;38;14 - 00;01;07;14
James
But what makes his work especially compelling is the way he's taken the experiment and turned it outward. Using art not just as an object to look at, but as a tool for connection, transformation, and community. For the last six years, David has been creating public art experiences in some pretty unexpected places inviting strangers stop, listen, engage across difference, and look for common ground.

00;01;07;16 - 00;01;32;28
James
His work touches on subjects a lot of people would rather avoid, especially politics and division. But he's not interested in shouting matches or point scoring. He's interested in communication, healing and finding better ways for people to connect in a world that keeps pushing us further into digital echo chambers. It's thoughtful work, brave work, and honestly, deeply human work.

00;01;33;04 - 00;01;39;12
James
So go grab your coffee and settle in. And please welcome David Deighton.

00;01;39;15 - 00;01;54;10
James
So, David, thank you so much for joining us today. I appreciate this and I'm really excited to get into the conversation. So everybody kind of gets a better feel of who you are and what it is you're doing. Can you give us a little background about what it is you are doing?

00;01;54;15 - 00;02;20;23
David
If I were to know very much about myself would be easier, but I'll see what I can do. Today's story is, though, I see myself as a political activist, an environmentalist, constantly redefining myself and an artist lifetime artist. Of course, all the social division I'm seeing in my home country right now, the United States, where I'm living, and I'm originally from France.

00;02;20;23 - 00;02;46;01
David
And what I'm seeing over there, too, made me want to explore using different, different means. Why the taboo subject of politics? Why some people don't want to talk about politics. And so. So it brought me six years ago to to find which type of public space I could use, right. And enter and, and engage with the public, with strangers that would usually not come in to a gallery or to a designated space.

00;02;46;04 - 00;03;06;07
David
And after a little while, that brought me, as an example, into free speech areas in national parks, which are open to all, usually where you see, religious people bringing, you know, Bibles and all this stuff for conservation. I bring a piece of artwork to that space, engaged with the public, and I ask them three non-confrontational political questions.

00;03;06;07 - 00;03;24;22
David
I record their voices, I install an art installation. I have people engage with it and all these things, and I explore with what that means. And it's. And it's around not just the taboo, but also our echo chambers, our point of view, the cocoon that we live in. What does that look like and have, people explore that.

00;03;24;22 - 00;03;39;11
David
So really, I have the public do the art work in the sense I just create a presentation and then they answer it and they engage and I listen actively listen to what they have to say. And I hear a lot of different things.

00;03;39;13 - 00;04;04;03
James
Oh, I bet. And and this feels like it's more than just an art installation and that you're actually doing kind of a performance like this is allowing, you know, I'm seeing the artists that activate in public that are getting people involved. Do you find that easy to do?

00;04;04;06 - 00;04;27;17
David
So what I find harder to do is to make it look that it's not a performance, right? To be in the space so I can mirror whoever is going to show up to be there and, make them feel comfortable. Right. Because it's unusual. Right? You're in. Let's say you're in a national park, and then all of a sudden there's an abstract sculpture or something or something that's not supposed to be there, that's going to draw in a certain type of person.

00;04;27;17 - 00;04;47;20
David
I want to draw in all different types, especially the ones of people that I might disagree with politically. I want to get triggered. That's what I want to do. I want to get figured by what they say. I want to be in that space. I want to feel the pain and the discomfort that it is to hear things that I don't want to hear as an exercise, as a practice.

00;04;47;25 - 00;05;08;13
David
You know, where I wear my cowboy hat, you know, I'm hiking clothes on or whatever. I try to, like, look like I fit in, depending on which state I'm in. And it's and it's interesting. And it's never, you know, I expect to find those, certain type of public, and then it's not that at all. You know, we can't judge people by what they're wearing.

00;05;08;14 - 00;05;16;10
David
So I hear very unusual responses, and I'm in that space. Yeah. So it is definitely a performance, but it's improvization.

00;05;16;12 - 00;05;54;03
James
Well, I think it's interesting too, because you started off by saying you ask questions that are non-confrontational. And you have individuals that we really can't judge how they look, what they're wearing as to what they believe. And how does that come together? Like, how have you won found questions that aren't confrontational, and then how do you see it reacting with these individuals that we may have prejudged based on how they look, who they're hanging with, what they're wearing.

00;05;54;05 - 00;06;11;19
David
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So at the, at the beginning, like let's say in the first year this, I'm in my sixth, seventh year now, I was full of judgment, full of triggers, all this stuff I was, you know, and I had my own questions. I was experimenting questions and found that, whatever I used would trigger others.

00;06;11;19 - 00;06;30;26
David
So I took a structuralist aspect, approach to it and took the questions and went straight to the linguist. So I had, I have some friends that are linguists and, teachers and communication said, okay, I'm having trouble here. My my questions are kind of targeting a certain element. They say something about me and I don't want that.

00;06;30;26 - 00;06;56;12
David
I want them to be neutral as possible. Right. With people can feel comfortable to say that. And they came up with three questions. I'll just share them for what they are right now. Just the three roles. That's okay with you. Yes. And they ended up being these. And I've been using them consistently, always the same three questions and is how would you describe the political system of the United States of America and enough to go, you know, the describe what, you know, whatever they have to say about the political system.

00;06;56;16 - 00;07;16;15
David
And, you know, it's fairly it's, it's not too hard. It's whatever comes up to you in your mind. And, and the second one is describe your feelings or reactions to the current state of you as politics. Now we're getting more into the emotions you know, and how people do about it. Often that response is kind of linked to the first one.

00;07;16;17 - 00;07;37;27
David
Right? So they, you know, they they don't know it. And the third one is a game where you finish the sentence, they're kind of like you game where you finish a sentence. And I say politics in the United States blank, you know, and then they answer that. And every step of the way, I've noticed that they're defining more and more their ideas through those three questions.

00;07;37;27 - 00;07;59;13
David
And I'm just listening. I'm trying to regulate that myself as well and not to oh, I have to say this next. Or they said this. I must ask this the next day just to be they're using all my senses and that's where I get triggered. Like seeing where I get triggered, what it is, what you know, what it was that made me, upset, what they said or whatever.

00;07;59;13 - 00;08;17;00
David
I try to, I try to be there for them, give them a space just for them to be able to say something that other people never asked them, the taboo subject to politics and kind of get that going. And that's really cool because now they're like, there's this trust element that comes in, I trust them, they trust me.

00;08;17;01 - 00;08;33;25
David
We're leaning into one another. We're having a really kind of intimate moment. Right? And at the end I said, well, you know what, I want you can you give me one word that kind of brings it all together? Like, oh, what do you mean by one word? So not just the word. The word that comes to mind kind of brings everything.

00;08;33;25 - 00;08;55;28
David
All right. It's just, again, the one word that's super hard, right? You go to. Sure. I'll bring it down. One word. Yeah, yeah. And, and so they give me a word and it's, it's often the contrary of all the, list of complaints they've had about the state of affairs and plus especially one of hope on the left or on the right, they have this vision of there's something better at the end coming up.

00;08;55;28 - 00;09;13;22
David
So it's something the word hope, which is interesting. Other times it's word like, you know, bullshit, crap. But what I've heard, you know, some words come up, but it's it's true. It's like the essence of it. Well, I know from experience they'll they'll take off. I recorded their voice and they'll come back later on and said, you know, it's not it's no longer that word.

00;09;13;22 - 00;09;42;02
David
It's this word, you know, it's cohesion or something or it's Republic or whatever. So they've been thinking about it and I've been doing this the national park, which is open to all artists, we can all go there, right? Yeah. It's it's it's open. We can use them. You know, I highly recommend everybody go out there and we, you know, invest these, these spaces which are can be absolutely fantastic and, have great, you know, great exposure and.

00;09;42;05 - 00;10;02;23
David
Well, that's another subject. Anyway, they talk about that that one word. So they're thinking about it and they've been talking about it with, you know, probably their friends and family as the were off on a hike or they were off walking in nature in a different state of mind than words brought me today is, not just the fact of actively listening, practicing.

00;10;02;23 - 00;10;24;29
David
That is, is initiating conversations with strangers as a political tool that we can use whenever the opportunity arises. Right? Maybe with a family member that we no longer speak to because they voted for him or whatever, and we want it. We it's the emotion. So I find they and at the end of the conversation, if I feel compelled to do so, I'll tell them, you know, I disagree.

00;10;24;29 - 00;10;42;10
David
You know, I disagree with everything you said, except you said it's chaotic. You're angry, you know, you're sad. And I, whatever that word is, whatever that emotional bridges, I tell them that. I'll tell them you know what? I'm angry too, or I'll tell them this. I'm not lip tard or commie that you were. You were complaining about.

00;10;42;13 - 00;11;02;17
David
Right? I'll magnify it. But I'm angry too. And usually it ends up with like, oh, well, you're not like the other ones. And I'm like, that's a win. I'm the limit. I'm like, okay, great. So, now they got a story and the story is I met up about this, I met this commie liberal or whatever. So Park is, is an artist.

00;11;02;17 - 00;11;18;00
David
I don't know, but he was different. And he brought up these questions and, you know, people from that story, you create a story, and then they're more likely to use it, right, than all the theory behind bridging and coming together or whatever. That's what I do with emotion.

00;11;18;03 - 00;11;54;19
James
It's interesting too, because without these conversations, we can't come together no matter what the topic is. And because things have become so polarized, many of us don't hear what the other side is saying, and you're getting into this kind of gut part of it where you're finding out what makes them angry or what they see is broken, and that may not be far off from what you see is broken.

00;11;54;21 - 00;12;17;08
James
And now suddenly we have common ground between these polar opposites and thinking that we can talk, we can say, yes, I agree with you on this. I don't come from it from the same angle, but at least we can start to figure out, yes, it's broken, how do we fix it? And it feels too like you're stripping away a lot of the noise.

00;12;17;13 - 00;12;33;21
James
You know, the you called it the echo chamber that are those soundbites that all of us use. What happens when we don't use those sound bites? What happens when we use our own words? And you're finding that with these conversations, aren't you?

00;12;33;23 - 00;13;07;03
David
You nailed it. You nailed it. That's that's a really is that I think that and we all recognize that. That's what's so cool is that if you strip away it to make it as simple as possible, it resonates with other people that they find that, yes, it's a necessary thing that we all need to do it. You know, I remind people, hey, it's going to have to be on offline, not on our digital devices with with likes and stuff when we're all inside of that, our own echo chamber, with our own point of view, that the algorithm serves us all the time, and also reminding people that, you know, it's painful to take that, that

00;13;07;03 - 00;13;28;14
David
step. That's okay. And it doesn't have to be one of superlatives, of, of outrage, because if you're listening puts people off guard, what are they going to do? What are you going to do if the other person is bringing in without telling you what they think? Maybe at the end say, this is all bullshit, but I agree with this, and that works.

00;13;28;16 - 00;13;45;01
David
I mean, but that's just by experimentation. And then, you know, the research says all, you know, correlates with it, too, but it takes effort so that I don't do just to ask the questions. I'll bring in like, art installations as well, that try to get to the idea of, like, what is an echo chamber? Do we have one?

00;13;45;04 - 00;14;03;01
David
Should we answer the other or and all these things, whatever it takes. I mean, I feel rushed in a sense, because there's upcoming elections are always coming up and I and I want to have that's that's that's what I can do. My wife and partners shall write letters. She goes to committees and stuff. I hate those, I really hate those.

00;14;03;01 - 00;14;04;22
David
Like.

00;14;04;24 - 00;14;07;01
James
I'm already there with you. Oh.

00;14;07;03 - 00;14;25;00
David
But there's something that we know how to do, right? So, you know, you have your own form of expression. We all have these different ways of, there's, you know, all these facets, right? We're coming up from all different angles, but one is is action, right. We need to act or non action by not speaking, by listening, but doing something.

00;14;25;02 - 00;14;43;19
David
And I think it's that's what I found extremely empowering for me because I felt I can't get anything you know like what am I doing here. I'm not going to get as much influence on other people's facts or opinions that I, that I want. And I realized I can't really do that, but I can bridge that, that that right there has a lot of strength.

00;14;43;21 - 00;15;04;01
David
And so I've been going with that, and it's been a lot of fun because not only do I get to be outside and experience the elements, I get to speak to a lot of interesting people that I never would have spoken to, you know, because I had I had, point of view that, that I dislike maybe to certain groups that I didn't want to hang out with.

00;15;04;05 - 00;15;14;08
David
And now I've spending a little bit of time with them and finding that, okay, yeah, they're Nazis, but they're, they're they are,

00;15;14;10 - 00;15;16;18
James
Now, you mentioned that you.

00;15;16;18 - 00;15;20;21
David
Bring it hard there, but I do feel as I do think that sometimes.

00;15;20;24 - 00;15;47;09
James
Well, yeah, I think well, I think both sides do. Right. Yeah. We, we just, we see it as the enemy and we label it as the enemy so that we have an object to focus our, our anger, wrath, hate, whatever at and and that stops the conversation. And so I think it's interesting. I'm going to want to come back to this in a minute about the you use the word trigger.

00;15;47;11 - 00;16;19;03
James
But before we go down that path, I want to back up a second and I want to ask you, bringing like abstract sculpture and such into this space that you're asking the questions, is there a specific purpose that that art is there? Is it interactive that you want them to touch, feel, engage with, or is it the type of thing when we go into a gallery or museum and we're observing it and being asked, what does this make you feel?

00;16;19;08 - 00;16;44;13
David
Right? So there's different ones. So there's more the performance piece, two empty chairs, ones, Republican, Democrat. They shouldn't be there. They're facing one another. Conversation is not taking place. It's somebody sit there. I mean, like I, I blend in with with the crowd as they look at it's stuff, and then I can hear what they have to say, which I usually don't get to do, you know, except at a gallery opening or something, even that they know you're they know you're it.

00;16;44;16 - 00;17;06;13
David
So but here you get to hear to get a lot of feedback. So that's more of a performance, aspect of it. We'll, I'll jump in. Other ones, have been, using the words that were given to hundreds of words that were given to me. I will, one was, like a quilt with all the names on it, in series of nines, one after the other, chronologically, hundreds of them.

00;17;06;18 - 00;17;24;29
David
And people wonder, what are these words? Right. But I, I bring them out as like they're the weight on my shoulder, shoulders. And I bring them out. Another way that I like to, to talk about is that was on the Grand Canyon rim. There's a free speech area, an amphitheater right there at Martha's Point. I tell it for everyone, if you can get that spot, it overlooks the whole Grand Canyon.

00;17;24;29 - 00;17;42;05
David
There's seating for 200 people, and I put a museum stand with, sculpture in the middle on top of it, with the plexiglass on the top as the case. And, you know, people come up, look at it like, what's what's that? And I come up. Well, you know, tell them that, right? That, that sculpture in the middle.

00;17;42;05 - 00;17;59;13
David
And so it's an invitation right? At that moment, I can talk to people. I'll come up and I'll say, well, that right there is a representation of me. It's a representation of you. It's just a representation of something I'm not really concerned with what's inside. I'm concerned with the glass case around it, the like what? But what do you mean, the plexiglass?

00;17;59;13 - 00;18;20;25
David
To see the case that's on top of it. So why would you. Okay. That's interesting. I said well yeah, that's to me that's like our worldview. That's our echo chamber. It's, it's, you know, I'm the statue inside. That's my worldview. It's often much more limited than I then I think, than we think it is. You know, we think, oh, it's so expansive, you know, and there it is not.

00;18;20;28 - 00;18;36;23
David
You know, you could see their eyes. They go down to the side. They're thinking they're not. They're in another space. And then I pull out like gimmickry in a sense. I have a little spice jar with a little, with a little toy inside, and it's glass. And I say, well, look at this guy. He's got another echo chamber.

00;18;36;28 - 00;18;56;17
David
I'm interested. And it's much more narrow. It just happens to have a you has like a Nazi salute because I can't get the can get the toy in without having an arm up in the air. But anyway, so there's work to be on. And I say, well, how does this person and this representation, But how do they communicate offline together?

00;18;56;20 - 00;19;13;02
David
How does that happen? I just leave it at that often people just start thinking about it and they talk about it as like, oh, what's an echo chamber? Do I have one? And they'll talk to their friends and all this stuff happens, like without fail. I mean, I got to mention that after six years, I have not had a single confrontation.

00;19;13;02 - 00;19;33;18
David
That's why I know they're non-confrontational, because it's all about listening and asking the right questions and right and being in the right space. I have not had somebody be upset, like, I'm not going to talk about politics or whatever. They're curious. They want to know how can that possibly be non-confrontational? Politics in its very nature, it's confrontational. Right.

00;19;33;18 - 00;19;50;28
David
And so by example. And that's where it's leading me to. Is this the space I by this example, I can see that we can have these conversations. And it's kind of a role that we have as artists to maybe put out and create these spaces, invent new spaces that other people can use, and create that story back again.

00;19;50;28 - 00;20;09;04
David
And I like to create stories. So they go, oh, I met this artist at a national park, that I visited. So when they talk Grand Canyon, it's like, oh, yeah, I was the Grand Canyon or something. I saw something different. You saw bear? But guess what I saw? I saw, I saw this, and then the conversation starts and these things happen.

00;20;09;04 - 00;20;27;12
David
And then I hear people coming back to me. It's like, oh, I know I've heard about you, you know? So these things are taking place here. I love to create the stories still new to me, creating stories, this power of stories. And then I let other people create the narratives to it that they bring on their own journeys and create other performances with other people.

00;20;27;14 - 00;20;31;25
David
Maybe just in a small exchange with somebody. That's where I want to be.

00;20;31;27 - 00;21;01;08
James
I'm listening to all of this, and I'm feeling that because of the way you've approached this and these people, you know how you're saying they come back and they go, you know what? I'm changing what I said, I think it's this now. I think it's incredible that you're using this is art that you're planting seeds of sorts to not necessarily get them to change their opinion, but to actually think about what they think about.

00;21;01;14 - 00;21;22;17
James
I think too many times we just talking those echo chambers, we just keep repeating what we hear. Do we believe it? And if we believe it, to what level do we believe it? Or have we been told that's what we have to believe? Because I need to be like everybody else. It's around me, and everybody in my world thinks exactly this way.

00;21;22;17 - 00;21;53;06
James
So I have to think that way too. And I'm finding this such an amazing. I hope I run into you sometime out of park, because I would love to actually engage with this, because I get the sense you and I are going to be on the same page politically, but I think even in that instance, I'm going to walk away into this beautiful area that I'm going to be communing with nature, that I'm going to be thinking about our conversation and coming back with.

00;21;53;06 - 00;22;06;14
James
I've thought more about it, and I've either strengthened my resolve of why I believe the way I do, or I'm going to have a different word for it. That's my word.

00;22;06;17 - 00;22;28;13
David
Yeah, yeah. Because the, the public is the one put on the podium if you like. Yeah. The piece of art they're the one that's out there and it's constantly evolving. Right. And so because of the silence, because of the well it's not in the sense of silence, because of the listening to being there and leaning and giving them importance.

00;22;28;16 - 00;22;36;23
David
Like, I have people that cry sometimes now that I never happened. Like nobody's ever looked at one of my paintings and like, cried, know.

00;22;36;25 - 00;22;37;20
Speaker 3


00;22;37;22 - 00;23;03;13
David
So but you know, it's because. No. And it always comes down to this because nobody asked them those questions. Nobody took the time to listen to them and give them the space. Unless you're online and you think everybody you know is going to care about which way you, you know, put that little thumbs up or down or what you said feeding the algorithm, but in person and this the stuff comes out like there's this form of like trauma and it comes out left or right, by the way, which I find interesting.

00;23;03;15 - 00;23;24;22
David
It makes, awkward situations. I, I repeat, it's my friends is this is the story of this this this woman started crying because her son voted this way and they're no longer talking. Not just the politics is like, they split up. Like now. You'd think this. Forget it. I was about the age of her son. Her husband comes up, sees her crying, says, what did you do to my wife?

00;23;24;25 - 00;23;26;03
David
You just say, my wife.

00;23;26;03 - 00;23;29;06
David
So,

00;23;29;09 - 00;23;29;20
James
Yeah.

00;23;29;20 - 00;23;52;12
David
It was like I say nothing. I just asked two questions to back me up, you know, and the whole thing calm down. And then he was in the conversation so that kept on going, which is interesting. It's a very emotional aspect. We connect with the emotions and stories rather than the facts or opinions that we each hold. That's been my takeaway and that's where I'm going into, which is a comfortable space to go into.

00;23;52;12 - 00;24;03;00
David
You don't have to think of arguments or counterarguments or what they said in this, and that is okay. All right. You're angry. I'm angry. You have hope. I have hope, whatever it is.

00;24;03;02 - 00;24;27;25
James
And I think it's interesting because you use the word argument because an argument you come ready to defend. But when we're in a conversation, a conversation means two or more people talking and listening, and you've added that element in to this artwork, it's listening that takes me back. I want to go back to trigger.

00;24;27;27 - 00;24;28;15
David
Okay.

00;24;28;17 - 00;24;47;17
James
You made a comment a bit ago that some of the things that get said, you hear it, it triggers you. Is it triggering you like in the sense that it's negative, or is it challenging you in what your belief or thought is?

00;24;47;19 - 00;25;13;28
David
Yes. Yes it is. A trigger is a challenge. But it okay, so here's here's, like a technique that came just out of experimentation. Okay. So I'm actively listening. You're supposed to use all your senses. That was really kind of troubled. Okay, well, all right, I can I can listen, I can, I can see, but what smell and taste like I'm like to go taste someone or or smell them.

00;25;13;28 - 00;25;30;14
David
Maybe that was a bit weird, but. So I brought that back. I said, well, I don't know how to answer that question. So I brought it back to the public. And so I have all these hundreds of words. And so let's say the word was the next one on the list is chaos. And I said, well, as people like, what does chaos taste like, you know, what is it?

00;25;30;20 - 00;25;53;02
David
Or what is chaos smell like? And people immediately go in that same space like eyes off to the side, thinking off. And they're in another domain. They're in another dimension, if you like, say, oh, never thought of that. Should I even think about that? Does that even make sense? People usually answer that, you know, chaos feels like smell, tastes like granola or something where we don't know what.

00;25;53;05 - 00;26;09;14
David
They come up with all these interesting things. And so I use that now when I get triggered, I immediately think, what was that taste like? So I disassociate myself to all the rest of the thought pattern that goes with it. And I just think, okay, that smells like, you know, this tastes like sour grapes. Okay, so I'm back in.

00;26;09;14 - 00;26;30;27
David
Okay. What is this person saying again? Yes. And then, it's just a peripheral way. I think as artists we often look on on the side. That's very different filters eliminate them, take up walls. Look, we rearrange things. And so that that's helped me, personally, to be able to listen in to the things that may be offensive to, to me.

00;26;30;27 - 00;26;53;25
David
And of course, I wonder why that was offensive to me later. Hence, if I'm in a national park, I try to put in to weekends. I if I can take that block of time and I'll go for a backcountry camping hike for several days and process everything that that went on because it's intense. You know, you're talking to a lot of people in a busy park, especially if you have something weird enough that people are going to come in and spark their interest.

00;26;53;29 - 00;27;23;28
James
Now, when you and I got introduced originally and had a conversation, you were in Columbia, right? Yeah. And and you just mentioned before we started this, this conversation that you're headed off out of country again. Do you do these sorts of engagements when you go out of country like that, or are you just activating this sort of conversation in art here in the US?

00;27;24;04 - 00;28;02;28
David
I try to when I'm abroad. The thing is, is that it's about the space, right? So I have these spaces public parks, national parks, the occasional meeting in a grocery store, you overhear a conversation, coffee shop, whatever, a shirt, whatever those things are. Those are all opportunities. So the cultural context are different. I also have these other forms of projects where I take the three questions and I and I take them and, and I put them in a ceramic piece I make and I bury it or I hide it out in nature because, of course, the questions you can also change politics for religion or whatever, and you can change the United States to

00;28;02;28 - 00;28;24;00
David
whatever country. So, they do apply. But as I'm traveling, I'll make sculptures that I place in different, different places. They have some symbolic meaning to it. The direct interactions with people when I was in Colombia was land mines, the second largest percentage of landmines in the world after Afghanistan? You know, it's a bit awkward burying stuff, right?

00;28;24;00 - 00;28;45;06
David
Sure. In a country that has such a, have a history of like over 50 years of, of armed conflict and all these landmines, each country is different for me. And what would I explore? Yeah, I've tried, of course, in France, because I'm French is always the language issue as well. People are very open to discuss political issues, but maybe not in the street.

00;28;45;09 - 00;29;18;16
David
So it's, we're in a public space. So there's that aspect. How do you present that? The space, right. That there's an exploration of that. But I certainly don't feel the same pressure that I do as to act here in the US, because that's where I live. And they are the superpower, if you want. So for wherever I go, the influence of what's happening in this country, it's like why I live in a state full of, Democrats for me, when maybe I should be living in the next state over, and immerse myself to have the greatest influence in people with very different views than mine.

00;29;18;16 - 00;29;29;27
David
I don't have that type of energy. I like my bubble. So I go, I take it in chunks, and I go there mentally prepare myself and come back to breathe.

00;29;30;00 - 00;29;50;18
James
I it's funny you say that because I live in California and I live there because I love the weather. I love the Mexican food. I love the people. And too, I travel elsewhere. Yes, but it's like what you're saying. I like what I have here. All right, I'll go visit. Okay? Yeah. And come back.

00;29;50;20 - 00;29;55;12
David
Yeah. We got to be, you know, if we're going to do something painful, we gotta be strong to get there.

00;29;55;12 - 00;29;57;04
James
Otherwise we're going go.

00;29;57;07 - 00;30;00;12
David
And, yeah, we got to be at our best.

00;30;00;18 - 00;30;32;23
James
I think it's interesting what you're doing because many artists, me included in this bucket. We create an artwork. That's a statement. I have a voice that I recognize that allows me to share my opinion, my idea, my something. I'm whatever it is. And with some of my work, it's clearly political. I think it's interesting from what you're creating isn't about the statement, it's about the listening.

00;30;32;26 - 00;30;42;20
James
And that becomes like the media. What the artwork ends up being is hearing. Am I off on that?

00;30;42;23 - 00;31;04;24
David
You're not off. We're on the same the same page. However, I wasn't like that before. This is just it's been transformative for me. It's transformed who I am in so many ways. I was one that do my art anonymously, never put my my own name out there and hide behind different personas. And it was, quite violent and angry, in a lot of ways.

00;31;04;24 - 00;31;28;22
David
It was like, here it is, you got to take it. Right? And when I put myself out there, then it was me, and there I am. And and over the last few years, it has changed me to like, listening to things I don't want to hear about. I didn't really want to do that before. And then being there for others and enacting that, like, okay, I'm giving to others, giving you my time and my space in order to do this.

00;31;28;22 - 00;31;52;07
David
I mean, it's just the process. It's an ongoing project, but it's not who I was, 7 or 8 years ago was a very, very different person. So it's, and it's brought so much weight off of my shoulders. It's crazy, like the anger and stuff. It's like I already lost my hair, so it's okay. So it hasn't grown back.

00;31;52;10 - 00;32;26;09
James
But it's interesting, though, that when when you're doing something like this, it's almost like the humanity comes back into the character of you. I mean, that's an incredible thing because that anger, right? We start holding on to anger and it eats at us. And then that kind of helps us get into an echo chamber. Right? And now that cycle begins that we spiral into, oh, and now we're not listening to someone who's not talking the way I want to hear it.

00;32;26;12 - 00;32;42;24
David
Yeah. Yeah. That's where that pain and discomfort comes from. Right. You got to put yourself in a situation that you don't really want to be in. It's very fruitful when you can take out the noise. And the noise is the one from your own, from your self, from, from inside your brain and all your belief systems and all that.

00;32;42;24 - 00;33;10;21
David
It really changes a lot of things. I mean, my core beliefs are the same, but my, my view of others as, has is transformed. And as I said, the weight is, is enormous. I'm not one to I don't avoid talking to people. I teach in classrooms as well, which I never would have done before. I find myself doing volunteer work, picking up other people's trash.

00;33;10;24 - 00;33;26;10
David
You know, and without, like, oh, you threw a cigaret down, you know, like, I remember, I remember, especially in France, I get really pissed off with a cigaret butts, but, you know, I just pick it up, you know, it's like picking up somebody else's dog crap, you know? Yeah. I don't want to pick it up. Yeah, you should pick it up.

00;33;26;10 - 00;33;34;17
David
But then everybody leaves crap everywhere. They just pick. If you pick it all up, less people are likely to to leave it behind. That type of story.

00;33;34;20 - 00;33;41;13
James
Yeah. Well, and it's transformative. We we become together again.

00;33;41;15 - 00;33;49;12
David
The unity. Yeah. The humanity. Yeah. That's big. Yeah. That's big. That's really, that's really changed. That's really changed a lot for me.

00;33;49;14 - 00;34;00;12
James
So, David, what created the origin of this? Like what moved you from the type of art you were doing to what you're doing now? What what was the catalyst?

00;34;00;15 - 00;34;22;13
David
I bring it down to just one single episode, like, you know, an epiphany. Tori and Albert Museum in London. A triptych, quite bad, conditioned from the mid 1300s, with half of the imagery missing, washed away from time to half of the images of missing, several images all throughout the panel. You know, the three panels, all this religious imagery on it and how it was missing.

00;34;22;13 - 00;34;45;14
David
So I was like, what's the story there? All the stuff that's missing, you know, I fill it in, I fill it in constantly in my like, oh, I see how I see how somebody is. They must think this way, know to fill it in. I need to go ask people in person from that moment. That's where that's where it started from that singular piece I called my project Triptych Dialog.

00;34;45;16 - 00;35;09;25
David
I started just that very day. I was like, that's what I'm going to call it. It's a dialog about this triptych, and it's from that piece of artwork. Whoever that guy was. Van Berthold, German, Irish, mid 1300s know nothing about him. He transformed me through the centuries and hence that's maybe why I want to, you know, put things in and bury them and hide them in time capsules and talk to people in dialog from that piece that that epiphany.

00;35;09;25 - 00;35;30;09
David
I was like, that's it right there. My answers are there. My journey is. And through this piece, yeah, that's where it happened. Very powerful. I need to go back. And I mean, I look at the pictures sometimes that I took, but I'd, I'd like to get back to the presence of this piece and, and, and spend a day just looking at it and, you know, pondering the journey I've been through since that piece.

00;35;30;09 - 00;35;58;07
James
I've seen art for me. Even as a child, I loved looking at art. I loved spending time with it, and I may not always understand what it was trying to tell me, but I love how what you're talking about it can trigger us to change. It can trigger us to ask different questions. It can put us in a place that we may discover we don't know everything about ourselves.

00;35;58;07 - 00;36;21;10
James
And I think it's incredible what you're doing because you are taking this out, which I love this part into the public. There's no gate stopping someone from getting to you and engaging with this art to find something out about themselves. Yeah, I do hope I run into you in a park at some point in a.

00;36;21;10 - 00;36;42;06
David
Park, and I want to explore other areas too, because in a sense, a park is limiting, right? The ones that are so popular does you have a much greater encounter. But because of the social, economic factors, demographics and all this stuff, and who usually goes to these places? Go to Yellowstone, go to the cemetery, go to Grand Canyon, go see something big that everybody puts on their list of things to see.

00;36;42;07 - 00;37;02;12
David
I want to go to, Mount Rushmore. That will bring a certain demographic to and political ideologies to go there. I never would wanted to visit it otherwise, but this is going to be my opportunity. It's finding the space, which is a space. So it's not it's not perfect. In the US where our public spaces actually, we have, we have parks.

00;37;02;15 - 00;37;15;18
David
Certain time people go to the parks, street corners. Forget it. People are not going to be interested. They're on the way here. They're driving. They're all in their boxes or whatever. You know, I love to go in a mall, but it's a commercial space, so you're not allowed to do it, right? Right. There's a lot of restrictions.

00;37;15;18 - 00;37;23;25
David
There's rules. Well, and in national parks, there are a few. I got to say, they don't want your items being like flammable or right. Sure that don't burn within.

00;37;23;26 - 00;37;56;08
James
It or, you know, you're talking malls and street corners and that sort of thing. And right, there's a commercial aspect and we don't think of that much. But commercial doesn't require freedom of speech. And finding that space, that freedom of speech, right. First Amendment that we can stand there and say something. Those spaces are becoming fewer, which makes what you're doing that much more important because it's how we're getting this conversation going.

00;37;56;10 - 00;38;13;25
David
If we want to protect arts speech in a sense we should get out there and use these spaces. The superintendent of Parks has to provide a space, and often it's not a very nice one. They they think, oh, David's got a political activity with art. I'm going to put them to the back of the parking lot where nobody goes.

00;38;13;27 - 00;38;32;15
David
Okay. That's an, that's an interesting space to spend a day and reflect on. Oh I'm back over here That's interesting. Yeah. But then you can have a conversation with administration there and you know say you know you're protecting also not only endangered species but another one, you know, First Amendment free speech is also an endangered species of sorts.

00;38;32;19 - 00;38;57;27
David
Yeah. And remind them that it's to exercise. Some are very receptive, other ones not. But they have an obligation to provide the space. And they often it's written in what's called a compendium compendium or something like this in the paper. And they designed, the designate an area and how big it is. And, and these things just go with it, see what it is, get a feel for it, explore the space and see what encounters you have.

00;38;57;29 - 00;39;14;25
David
I encourage everyone to do it. Poetry, anything. Theater. Do whatever you want. Yeah, bring it in. We need to fill those space.

00;39;14;27 - 00;39;26;22
James
You're hoping for out of this, out of what you've engaged with. And is there any place that's coming up that we could mention? We may find you if we're traveling around the US.

00;39;26;24 - 00;39;49;18
David
Right. So that's part of me exposing myself some more. So I'm building a website that's in the in the makes where I'll see where I'm going next. My self is out there, but I've been anonymous as to where I'm going next. I'm on, triptych dialog on YouTube. People can see different experiments that I've done and listened to hundreds of people answer those three non-confrontational political questions, see videos of the installations of some of the installations.

00;39;49;18 - 00;40;17;10
David
The outcome of what I'm expecting is change to solidify, to solidify our, the structure on which our democracy is built on and to be more democratic with individuals acting as political actors with a lot of power, rather than being told from up above what you know, what you're allowed to do when you're allowed to do it, what you couldn't do, go vote twice a year or every two years or whatever to get rid of that narrative.

00;40;17;13 - 00;40;27;13
David
The new narrative is we can act as individuals and we're strong a lot more than we're told we are. We are strong people.

00;40;27;14 - 00;40;41;03
James
David, thank you so much for your time today. This has been a very enlightening conversation for me and challenges me to it. How I spark conversation with art. So thank you.

00;40;41;05 - 00;40;43;15
David
Thank you, thank you so much.

00;40;43;18 - 00;41;07;12
James
And that brings us to the end of this episode of Lattes & Art, presented by J-Squared Atelier. A huge thank you to David Deighton for joining us and sharing more about his work, his journey, and the powerful ways he's using art to create connection, conversation, and real human engagement in a world that could use a whole lot more of all three.

00;41;07;15 - 00;41;34;25
James
Be sure to check out the Shownotes for links to David's work and to learn more about Triptych dialog, his art experiment, and bridging divides and rethinking how we talk to one another. And don't forget to give some love to our new sister podcast, Art Happens the Divine Mass of Art history, your destination for quick art history lessons with a lot more sass, personality and delicious chaos than the ones you probably got in school.

00;41;34;29 - 00;41;42;16
James
Until next time. This has been James William Moore. Stay curious, stay creative, and keep the conversation going.