Don't waste the Chaos with Kerri Roberts

What if the chaos you're currently facing is actually a doorway to your next evolution? What if your unique traits—even the ones that make you feel different—are actually your greatest strengths?

In this deeply personal episode of The Manifestation Lab, we explore how embracing our authentic nature transforms our relationship with life's challenges. The conversation flows through the recent blood moon's intense effects, revealing how celestial events mirror our internal landscape and magnify what's ready to emerge.

One of the most powerful concepts we discuss is "Don't Waste the Chaos"—a philosophy that transformed an organization from struggling to thriving by leaning into disruption rather than fighting it. This approach applies equally to personal transformation, where our greatest growth often happens during periods of upheaval.

We dive deep into how human design and gene keys have revolutionized our understanding of ourselves and others. For those feeling misunderstood or "different," these frameworks provide validation that you're designed exactly as you should be. The guest courageously shares her autism diagnosis journey, revealing how recognizing her neurodivergent brain has been liberating rather than limiting.

The conversation also tackles the intersection of spirituality and energy work, challenging the notion that practices like tapping or understanding cosmic patterns somehow diminishes faith. Instead, we explore how these modalities can deepen our connection to ourselves and the divine.

For entrepreneurs, there's powerful insight about building businesses that honor wholeness and balance masculine and feminine approaches. The guest shares how her HR firm creates clarity and supportive systems while valuing the unique contributions of previously undervalued women.

Whether you're navigating change, seeking to understand yourself more deeply, or simply curious about expanding your perspective, this episode offers a roadmap for embracing all of who you are—and using that self-knowledge to manifest a life that truly lights you up. Join us for this transformative conversation that might just change how you view your own unique design.

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome to the Manifestation Lab
• 3:22 Full Moon Energy and Emotional Release
• 12:35 Don't Waste the Chaos: Embracing Change
• 20:30 Exploring Gene Keys and Human Design
• 38:35 From Corporate to Entrepreneurship
• 54:42 The Power of Tapping for High Achievers
• 1:07:08 Autism Diagnosis and Self-Discovery
• 1:24:47 Faith, Spirituality, and Energy Work
• 1:42:37 Approaching Book Publication

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:05

Welcome to the Manifestation Lab. This is your host, Kelly Howe. From the grounded science to the mystical and unseen, we're investigating this big experiment we call life and finding what really works when it comes to manifesting a life that sets your heart and your soul on fire. No-transcript.

Speaker 2: 3:22

I'm genuinely curious, because this week has been wild.

Speaker 1: 3:26

It's been weird, hasn't it?

Speaker 2: 3:27

It's been a wild week. How has it felt for?

Speaker 1: 3:28

you Because we've got the blood moon full moon eclipse that just happened.

Speaker 2: 3:34

And the moon's in Virgo, and I'm a Virgo.

Speaker 1: 3:36

I'm a Virgo rising and, yeah, I'm feeling so much of this. Okay, talk about what's coming up for you.

Speaker 2: 3:45

I've had moments where I felt like I could walk on my hands the entire length of my farm, like stronger than I can't even like. Why is that happening? I've had to go out to the gym and work out in the middle of the day twice because you've had so much energy. I'm like I gotta do squats or something. I gotta release some testosterone or something. And then I, like I said I cried on the phone with for the love of systems.

Speaker 1: 4:06

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 4:06

I've been emotional too. I mean, he said like um I don't know if you know them, kristen Lux and Greg.

Speaker 2: 4:13

I don't know them and um, they were like you want to do a couple of free sessions with us? We'd like to work with you. And I was like, oh, I would be honored. Yeah, absolutely, and I'll make sure to leave a review.

Speaker 2: 4:24

And in the second session, greg said something that like hit me so hard in the heart and I am usually just stoic, especially in a professional setting and I sat there and was like I'm going to need to think about that. And then he kept talking. I needed him to stop talking. And he kept talking and kind of reaffirming what he had said and which was a huge compliment, um, that he had given me. And then he kept like backing it up and, um, I was like I don't know you, so this feels very vulnerable, like I was like I'm telling you again and, um, he kept talking and I said I don't know if you know what it's like People who are really confident and successful, any level of attractiveness, any of that. People don't compliment them. So I'm having a hard time just taking this in. And I said I'm starting to feel really vulnerable and emotional and he just kept talking, kept going, kept going, and I just grabbed a Kleenex and was like then I'm going to cry.

Speaker 2: 5:27

I'm just going to cry like I. I tried to like the one wall. And then the next one, I was like I'm going to share how this is making me feel. And then the next one, I was just. And then finally, I was just like I'm just going to cry, I'm going to, I'm going to cry for a minute. And I just did on camera. Yeah, left my camera on and just cried for a minute. And they were like this isn't the first time someone's crying. I'm like if you talk to 100 professional contacts of mine and asked 100 of them, maybe one, but probably zero, would say that I would cry on a professional call. And I was like I've got a lot going on with me right now and I'm proud of myself that I let myself do that.

Speaker 1: 6:05

And we've been working on that.

Speaker 2: 6:06

Oh yeah, I immediately was like I said I can't wait to tell Kelly that I did that tomorrow.

Speaker 1: 6:09

And they were like oh, kelly, yes, yes, I don't know them well, but from the time I've been around them, they're amazing.

Speaker 2: 6:16

And just precious people seem like lovely people.

Speaker 1: 6:18

Yeah, ok, so the Virgo full moon the full moon in general tends to like drop emotion, all the things that have just been like sitting there, it sort of like magnetically pulls it out. So there's that aspect of it. But here's what I'm curious if you're feeling too, because Virgo so much of it is like getting it perfect, right and refining and perfecting and um, one of the things that I'm noticing is because there's some sort of um, like the full moon, there's something about the Virgo being in the South node which is like what you're releasing and letting go of. So there's also an energy of like letting go of perfectionism and being more vulnerable and being more messy. So I wonder I mean, I'm totally feeling that right now Like there's aspects of what I'm doing.

Speaker 1: 7:09

Actually, this is a funny story. This is another weird energy thing where I was changing something on my website and creating a little side brand that I've been working on, a little sister brand, and I'm really excited about it. But I was like you know what? I'm going to change couple of the the colors so that it kind of stands out as its own little thing, but it's still connected. Well, I changed on Squarespace, I hit the site styles, not realizing that it would change the whole website, because I I got really used to using I updated recently, so I'm not used to this new version of it. Yeah, and it changed it. And not only that, I wasn't even that worried about it. My brand is not in there. Oh, my brand colors aren't in there, my fonts aren't in there. So originally I was like, oh shit, it changed it. And then I start looking through it's gone, like it's gone. My brand is gone, what is that so? And I've been surprisingly like, okay, I guess that's all right.

Speaker 2: 8:08

That's so interesting.

Speaker 1: 8:09

Cause I was listening to.

Speaker 2: 8:10

um. You know I work with Dan Martell and this morning I was listening to one of his like old coaching calls that's on our platform and just this morning he said stop trying to go in and change. We're talking about websites. Stop trying to go in and change your website, just start over.

Speaker 1: 8:27

Oh, that's.

Speaker 2: 8:28

interesting, he's like just start over, because you're looking at what you already have. You keep trying to retool. Your brain goes back into those words. And he was like sometimes you just have to like start that page fresh. And he said maybe you decide you go back.

Speaker 1: 8:40

But he said I can't think of a time where I have that's interesting and I think that's really good advice, because I am I'm like I don't know how to make it look like it did before, and then I'm sort of in this place of, well, I was thinking about doing like a personal brand refresh anyway, so it feels like the universe, like I was like.

Speaker 1: 8:59

Hey sister like I literally just this week told somebody you know what, I'm just going to hold off on that. On Monday I was like I'm trying to do so much right now I'm rebranding the podcast, like there's so much going on, I'm just going to hold on that. And then this happened and I'm like, yeah, I could see how that would be really good to just like freshly, like fresh start altogether. So, okay, I'm going to read the card that we pulled, that I pulled for us, um, it says when I'm tuned into the energy of abundance, I become abundant, and I think that's just like, um, very timely for me personally. I don't know about you, but yeah, there are.

Speaker 2: 9:41

I'm having this massive desire right now. Um know, ironically my podcast is called Don't Waste the Chaos, and that came from. I was in a boardroom years ago and we were making some changes in our organization and people were disrupted, like. And when I came to this organization I said, if we're trying to get to where you say you're trying to go, we are going to cause some problems. And the way I'd say it because I was trying to say it like gently was that we're going to shake the snow globe and because that's like kind of a beautiful, like oh, that's beautiful, but also it changes the entire environment. So we're sitting in this room and I was like, hey, I can stop everything I'm doing right now. But I say like, hey, I can stop everything I'm doing right now. But I say like don't waste the chaos.

Speaker 2: 10:29

And as soon as I said it, everyone was like yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 10:31

Don't stop. And we made some massive changes in the next 18 months in that organization. We went from we were literally at 6% EBITDA and we went to over 32% EBITDA, like it was massive changes, but it was very disruptive. We lost people, we pissed a lot of people internally off. Um, we just looked wild for a while there.

Speaker 2: 10:53

But I've got this. You know, my EA is going to go back to teaching and I'm so happy for her and she. You know I'm so happy for her and she. You know she was like stay at home mom, and working with me has helped her to see she didn't lose any edge over that time of staying at home and she's awesome and she can do it, she can work, and so she's going to go from part-time with me back to a full-time position and I'm so excited for her.

Speaker 2: 11:22

But with that change, I'm like do I need to just replace it as is? What can I automate? Can I build an AI agent? Or should I do virtual? If I do virtual, what does that do? The rest of my team? I love having like a group of strong women together. Not that the VA couldn't be a part of that, but it looks different, um, and so I'm just thinking through all of it and I'm like, oh, I'm also going to change my contractors to W2 because I'm going to pull. And once I opened up the thought process, it feels like a lot of chaotic change. But it feels to me like clarity, like thoughts that I hadn't had, or thoughts that I had had but not felt comfortable with. And now I'm like, oh yeah, I'm doing that.

Speaker 1: 12:04

I love. I love that message Don't waste. Waste the chaos. I think that's part of the reason we work so well together, because that's a lot of what I do with people is going like let's not, let's not try to like just brush over the chaos and the discomfort and the pain and like the things that aren't working and just like positive, think our way through it, like let's look at it and actually get the gifts out of it.

Speaker 2: 12:25

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:26

It's a really similar message, I think, and I love that it you know there is there's so much positive growth that happens if you can be excited about and know how to like weather the storm.

Speaker 2: 12:39

Yeah, because most of us, as soon as it starts feeling wobbly, we like stomp both feet down on the ground and we get fear bait. You know, like and I read something the other day and actually did you post it or somebody else that I followed that it said that it takes the same amount of, um, like belief in something you can't see to go toward faith or go toward fear I've seen that because you can't like see either one of them, and when I saw that that, I was like who chooses fear?

Speaker 2: 13:05

then Come on, we were not given a spirit of fear but a spirit of confidence, and so it's so clear. But when you're in that moment I could feel like, oh, my pulse is getting higher. Ok, I've learned how to feel, where I'm feeling it in the body, and all of that. I had a great tapping session while I was walking around yesterday by myself. I was just like I'm getting ready to step into a new. I just don't know what it is, but that's okay.

Speaker 1: 13:36

Yeah, I feel the same. There's something in the air right now with people Again, with the full moon and the eclipse. It is a death rebirth energy and it's so big for people right now and I don't know it is, it's exciting and you know, I mean it's not just individual like this, is a collective, a collective thing. So what is dying right now and rebirthing, you know?

Speaker 2: 14:03

on a massive scale.

Speaker 1: 14:04

It's pretty exciting. A little scary, but not in the like I feel scared kind of way.

Speaker 2: 14:11

Just in the like. We don't know what that's going to look like yet. Yeah, I can say, I think, with full confidence that there hasn't been a time where my emotions have attached to my desire to go out and lift weights and squat my body up and down. I was just like this is like animalistic. I squat my body up and down. I was just like this is like animalistic. I'm feeling so strong right now, like wildly strong. That's very cool and that is such a. I mean, that's never happened where I've been sitting at my desk and I'm like not only do I need to get up and walk around, I need to like go into my gym and like hold something heavy and move my body up and down. And like hold something heavy and move my body up and down like this. Oh, I love that for you.

Speaker 1: 14:47

I had some bursts of energy this week too, but mine was more like creative and like on the computer and I want what you're taking, I want that.

Speaker 2: 14:58

That's so interesting that you bring that up about creativity, though, because when I was talking to the folks at For the Love of Systems this week, he said something like you are so creative. And I said you know what, Um six months ago I would have told you a hundred percent, no, if I wouldn't have started working with you, I never I shouldn't say never. I was obviously at the right place and ready to receive that message from you that, like, I am extremely creative, Extremely. And now, when someone says that to me, I'm like yes and I see where. But like before, I would be really quick to be like no, I'm more of a words girl, I'm not like a creative. You know, I put some kind of weird different label on it for me.

Speaker 2: 15:40

And now I'm like yeah, now that I realize one of my gifts is listening to what someone else says and then being able to take that and maybe it's not even, maybe that person doesn't even mean it as a direct application to me, and I'm like what can I learn from that and apply that in my relationships or in my business or in my physical health? And when I tell people sometimes like this is what I got from you, they're like oh heck yeah, and.

Speaker 2: 16:07

I'm like, yeah, that's the message that I received from your book, your podcast, you know, like whatever it is that I'm reading or listening to or just happen to walk by and hear, that's one of my like superpowers.

Speaker 1: 16:19

Yes, it is. I love that. You're claiming that I love it. I was the same way I think we've talked about this I never considered myself a creative person, like really into the last few years. And now I'm going. I am very creative and I am not like that poor part of me has just been like hello, hello.

Speaker 1: 16:37

I'm out here I mean I paint now you know I just there's in in writing like creative writing I that's never been a strong point for me, but what I recognize is that I've always been not always, but especially when I was younger it was very much shut down out of stress, like I was just too stressed out for that creative part of me to like have space to breathe. You know, it was like deer in the headlights kind of. When it came to sit down and write a creative story. It was like I would just lock up and, um, yeah, it feels really good to open that up so I'm curious.

Speaker 2: 17:11

So you know, we're sitting in your space right now and I find your space to be like an amazing, amazing creative reflection, even like your living room out there, like just the way you use patterns and colors and textures. So once you kind of owned your creativity, did you feel yourself changing that? Or did you just happen to look around your space and you're like duh Kelly, I guess of course you're creative, like look at your, the way you've designed your space around you?

Speaker 1: 17:34

That's such a great question. I think both. I think that there's still times when I look at things and I'm like, wow, that's kind of cool, like that's a cool idea, you know, um, good for me. And then there's and then, and then there's this whole other part where I'm way more, I'm way more bold and I'm way more okay with with letting myself be creative and my notorious carry for having an idea and in my head feeling like it's really cool, but then like never putting it into reality. And that's actually part of my gene keys and we'll talk about gene keys here in a little bit but it's like.

Speaker 1: 18:09

It's like my, my primary gene key is all about dreaming and having the spark to like start something. But the shadow aspect of it is when you don't actually bring that into reality and make it. You know, make it something real. So I would say that both are true. I'm recognizing and giving myself credit more for being able to have that creativity and to experiment, and I really like things kind of that don't match. I always have. I like putting two things together that shouldn't match, but for me it does somehow.

Speaker 2: 18:39

I call that Chinese high fashion, by the way, oh really. If you look at their runway, it's always putting patterns and textures together. That I'm like. I would never but like heck yeah.

Speaker 1: 18:50

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 18:50

That is their high fashion. Is that encapsulates, it Isn't that?

Speaker 1: 18:54

interesting and, like I've always loved putting black and brown together and that was like such a thing, such a rule.

Speaker 2: 19:00

Don't do that Right.

Speaker 1: 19:01

Like, don't do that. And I mean you look around this, there's black and brown everywhere. I just love it. So I love that question and I think it's both. I think I'm still opening that up and blooming into my creativity, um, but thank you for saying that, because I definitely give myself permission now to um try the ideas and not try to look for someone else to validate it and to just do it. Yeah, and then yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:26

Cause it feels right. Cause it feels right, yeah, cause it feels right. There's no other really reason that like. What are we doing stuff for? I know, if it doesn't feel right?

Speaker 1: 19:34

I know it's so true. I mean, how many times we just bang our head against the wall trying to just do something, thinking if I just do these things then I'll be happy? If I just do these things, then I will feel fulfilled. But it's the opposite, really we need to feel happy and fulfilled doing what we're doing to continue to create that life.

Speaker 2: 19:53

So it's just backwards that reminds me of um in the in the gene keys book. One of the things that we talked about during one of our sessions was like how we spend so much of our time trying to prepare for future happiness but it like never comes. And so we keep going through our days preparing ourselves, like financially, and preparing our bodies, and like everything that we're doing, we're like work, work, work. So when that arrives I'll finally be happy. And when I read that in the Jean Keys book I was like I mean, come hell or high water, I'm going to fight that. Yeah, like I don't. Well, it's making me feel a little emotional, like I'm not living life like that.

Speaker 2: 20:34

Yeah, yeah but you know breaking that's work every day.

Speaker 1: 20:38

Yep, it is, it's it's a huge pattern to break. I, I think most of us, even when we're aware of it, still fall into it sometimes. Oh, yeah, Like oh, if I can just get there, if I can just be there. And then there's this like constant longing feeling, and then we manifest more of that longing feeling where it feels like everything's just out of reach right.

Speaker 2: 20:56

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: 20:57

Yeah, I'm glad you said that. Let's talk about the gene keys a little bit more. We have gone deep into human design. We've gone deep into the gene keys, so let's talk about that a little bit. How has that work amplified your life?

Speaker 2: 21:19

Yeah, so the very first thing, that was the most impactful. It's given me some freedom in a few different areas, but the most impactful, I would say, is knowing T, my husband, knowing T's human design and knowing Keegan, my 13 year old son. Knowing his human design. Um, my personality is that I inside feel like a magical unicorn all the time, which also lends itself to like some self-righteous behavior and some isolation. You know, um, and feeling unknown a lot of times like that, that's definitely like the hard side of it.

Speaker 1: 21:56

I don't fit here in this world.

Speaker 2: 21:57

No one gets me that kind of stuff, and so stepping into all of that has helped me realize that's yep, that's accurate, and that's a lot of my shadows. But like there's another side to it, if I can acknowledge those things and then do the work or even just have the openness, it's not always about work Like. Sometimes it's just about the knowledge and the understanding to let myself also see the other side to it. But Terry and I were both Virgos. We're six days apart, we're four years, but six days apart. And so, um, I know that about us and you know, everything says like two Virgos should not marry each other, which makes us laugh because we are killer business partners.

Speaker 2: 22:36

We're really hypercritical on each other, but we also like pace so hard that we respect one another, because you know we're both bringing a lot to the table and we both know it. Yeah, like I'm not where I'm at without you. Period I'm at, period I'm at a great place, I'm at a place where a lot of people would want to be, but with you I'm tracking fast and hard in a good way. So when we went through that because he has more of a critical mindset than I do I, you know I'm learning about all of the human design and I'm like. Never once did I consider that we were the same and I mean not same, because there's so much variance inside of it.

Speaker 2: 23:17

You know, it's not just like I'm an Enneagram three or whatever.

Speaker 1: 23:19

You know what I?

Speaker 2: 23:20

mean there's so much variance, but yet he's also a manifesting generator like me. And that did a couple of things. One is it helped me to look at him and say I knew you were capable, obviously, like that's been very obvious, but I need to give you more credit. I give, I give myself a lot of credit for my motives and I need to meet you there.

Speaker 1: 23:47

Sure.

Speaker 2: 23:47

And it also has helped both of us to see, like, the way trauma presents. You know and I know he wouldn't mind he shared it on my podcast here he has pretty severe PTSD. He's been diagnosed with alexithymia, which you know for folks who don't know, like that's someone who struggles to recognize the emotions and the feelings of others, likely because of trauma in his childhood, exacerbated by his 10 years in the military. He was trained well and could be waterboarded right now without giving up the deets, but it, you know, it's hurt some things.

Speaker 2: 24:16

Yeah, so being able to see like, oh, same, same or so similar um has helped me to like give him grace in some areas where I'm like, why are you like that? And it's like that's likely trauma. So let's love him through that because at the end of the day, we're're arriving, both of us, like we're working so hard to arrive. And then also, on top of that, like if anybody follows me on social media, they know like Keegan is the coolest person in my world, like he's my guy, your son, yes, my son. And so learning that he was a generator, which also was really interesting.

Speaker 2: 24:55

So I'm like, oh man, we're both manifesting generators that was such a fun session to be able to look at all three of your charts. I felt like my brain melts it out of my ears because I was just like that's not what I thought either. And it became so clear that when I am like buzzing around like a whirling, dervish, keegan can meet me there. But he also will be the first one to say when I calm down. He never escalates me, which is honestly hello. He's a child, like wow, he's so wise. But when I calm down and get back to a normal state he'll be like hey, that kind of felt like an overreaction, wow. And I'm like he's so tied to his sacral energy in a way that, like the manifester in me I've got that too with the generator. But the manifester in me is like act, act, act, do, do, do. Can't go fast enough. If you can do it you know what I mean why wouldn't?

Speaker 2: 25:41

you don't hold yourself back like push, push, push. You can. You've got it inside of you like God made you this way. I'm like this all the time and he will meet me there if I'm like demanding of it or if it's something that he loves, I he's not meeting me there, he's doing it too.

Speaker 1: 25:55

He's highly capable as a generator, I can really. Yeah, when you're aligned man, that energy is unstoppable.

Speaker 2: 26:01

But if he's not passionate about it. He will either please me and I have to be careful about that because he will or he'll like watch me participate, but then later he'll be like whoa, that was really something. Wow, mom, but you were up to right there and I'm like man. He is such an anchor for me, it's such a beautiful.

Speaker 2: 26:20

I mean you bring that to me too, like I'll be like over here and you'll kind of let me do it and you'll be like so seven minutes ago you said, and I'm like, oh shit, whenever you draw back on the old stuff, I know we're about to like, we're gonna have to tap through it.

Speaker 1: 26:34

Yeah, I mean, it's funny I just have been doing this for so long but literally things like there's like a feeling I get when something is said and I just know that that's the thing we're looking for. It's like it lights up, but like I feel it. Um, but yeah, that's usually what I'm like.

Speaker 2: 26:54

Okay, I wrote this down and I let you finish, but here's what's really.

Speaker 1: 26:56

Here's what's really going on.

Speaker 2: 26:57

Yeah, yeah, and that's, I would say, keegan's power is to cut through the bullshit. It's uncanny what I can see him do and I just like give full props to the generators for being able to do that. Like, keep that root there, regardless of what's going on around you, and he'll, he's the first one that will remind me like I hope you're not changing yourself for other people.

Speaker 1: 27:20

Wow, he sounds like such a wise old soul.

Speaker 2: 27:22

And I'm like, hmm, I want to say I'm not, I wouldn't, I'm so confident in myself. If I'm not confident, I'm courageous, you know. But then if I like let that sit, which with him I do, because he loves me so well, you know, like what are his motives and intentions? He's my son and I can let that land and I'll be like, yeah, I don't want to do that either, like I need to think about that.

Speaker 1: 27:45

Yeah, just so beautiful.

Speaker 2: 27:49

How old is he 13. Wow, just so beautiful. How old is he 13. Wow. Gosh I know, I'm like man, what are you going to be when you get older? Yeah, I just don't know.

Speaker 1: 27:57

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 27:57

He says he wants to maybe be in the CIA, which I feel like they're going to listen. Is it still going to exist? They're going to listen to this podcast, is?

Speaker 1: 28:05

this a CIA that's getting like there's major weird things happening right now.

Speaker 2: 28:09

There will always be secret services, though, yeah.

Speaker 1: 28:13

I think so too, yeah, so I don't remember exactly. I'm trying to think back because that session was so long ago, but there was something also. I feel like there were so many facets of the uniqueness in each of your energy you and Keegan and Terry but one of them I feel like was something with environment where, like you needed quietness but Keegan and Terry, but one of them I feel like was something with environment where, like you needed quietness, but Keegan needed high sound and needed is.

Speaker 2: 28:37

Am I remembering that, right, I'm cave and both the boys are mountains, okay, so, um, which made a ton of sense. My level of overstimulation is so like I'm so sensitive and I know we'll kind of get into, like my more recent um diagnosis, so I don't, you know, like I think that definitely has a part to it. But so like I'm so sensitive and I know we'll kind of get into, like my more recent um diagnosis, so I don't, you know, like I think that definitely has a part to it. But I need silence to think. Um, even if I'm listening to an amazing podcast and somebody says something, if I don't pause that I'll lose it. Like I have to go inward and I'm really comfortable there. I'm really comfortable alone. I'm really comfortable alone and even though I love both my voice endlessly, my favorite days are alone. I just love that.

Speaker 1: 29:18

I really love that too. I really it feels good I need a lot of silence and solitude. And again, that's that showed up, my gene keys and I. When I saw that it, it was like I could stop feeling guilty yeah you know which is silly. I shouldn't have felt guilty anyway, but it just was. Like it's right there. You need that in order to be in your highest self, in your highest power. The way you were created. You need that. So just let it be, kelly like let it, let it be.

Speaker 2: 29:47

and I would also say it helped me to understand like Keegan and T. Both can, like exist in a beautiful space, but they don't care about it as much as I do, Whereas, like in a cave, that's your little tiny space. I care so much about the aesthetic of our home. If anybody walked into it right now you would think that I was anticipating a visitor every moment. And that's not for you, it's for me, Like I need that to maintain my level of focus and my level of peace. And so, like the quietness of the space, the organization, the cleanliness, like all of that, it's just natural for me and I don't have to feel bad about it. I used to.

Speaker 2: 30:30

You know people would be like that's your OCD and like yes, I have been diagnosed with that. So I mean it does manifest like what they don't know is. It manifests in other freaking, like door lock bullshit that I try to work through. But, um, yeah, it is part of that. But it's also like who I am in my soul. It's what I need to be able to be the best version of me.

Speaker 2: 30:51

And I want to let it happen.

Speaker 1: 30:54

Yeah, and it, and there's this really beautiful thing that happens when we start giving ourself permission to be that person and really live and explore like this is really who I am. And then there's this awareness of, oh, I'm not built the same way as my husband, awareness of, oh, I'm not built the same way as my husband, so that's why he doesn't care about that. I'm not built the same way as my sister or my mom. And then getting curious about like oh, that's man that is on point for them. Like my mom is a manifester. And when I learned that I was like oh, there's so much that makes sense now to me, you know it's just, and you can let them be that way without being irritated at them.

Speaker 2: 31:32

I mean sure it's going to trip your trigger sometimes, but like, if you really can root down in that you can, you can truly let somebody be that way.

Speaker 1: 31:40

I know I've said this a million times on the podcast, but I stopped taking things so personally. When somebody treats me a certain way or, um, when they're living their design and for whatever reason, it's hurting my feelings you know what I mean like that's a me problem, right? Maybe they're moving in their shadows, maybe they're, you know, not in that higher frequency, but it's still my responsibility to be grounded and to deal with my feelings and emotions behind that and yeah it's, I think some judgment fell away for myself and for other people like all, at the same time doing human design and gene keys and being able to see that cosmic blueprint so perfectly, you know it just so much shifted for me.

Speaker 1: 32:25

Um, so there was something else with with your all's charts. I know that we've already talked about it quite a bit, but it seems like I remember that maybe you're not emotional, your emotional center is not defined Terry's is, terry's is and maybe Keegan's is too.

Speaker 2: 32:40

Yeah, Keegan's is too.

Speaker 1: 32:41

Yeah, so have you noticed that at all? I mean I know Terry's kind of. He's got his PTSD, so he's not like fully in those emotional expressions, or at least doesn't sense it Sounds like yeah, I would say um, we laughed. Oh well, I could tell he was like wait, I was like Terry, you're supposed to be a very emotional person and like have your own.

Speaker 2: 33:02

And he was like the funny thing is that's kind of a um, a touchy subject in our marriage because for years I have been like you're being so fucking emotional and I'm I need you to be logical with me Like this doesn't make sense right now, um, and that was really offensive to him. To call him emotional, and you know, first of all, name calling of any sort, even if it's accurate, is not helpful, so I wasn't going to get what I wanted in that situation, like I've since learned. But the truth was the truth and I have seen it with him because I'm not like that. It's so um, it's pretty easy for me as long as I'm not triggered.

Speaker 2: 33:45

It's easy for me to see someone else like really having an emotional response immediately to me. I start thinking things like you're not being rational, you're not being logical, and I can recognize, oh, I'm having those feelings because they are showing me emotions and that isn't a place that I live, so that's not wrong of them. So I need to like let that happen without being like you're being emotional, cause, who? Who has that ever helped? It's like telling someone to calm down.

Speaker 1: 34:09

Well, being an emotional type myself, I can completely relate to that, where it's when people are looking down at it or, yeah, judging it. It's like the emotions that are already there that you know. Obviously tapping is such a powerful tool for processing through that. I think everybody needs it, but definitely the emotionally defined people. It's so powerful. But that, I think, was like the biggest block. Probably one of the first blocks that I worked through was recognizing, like I learned from people, that that was annoying and that it wasn't okay and that there wasn't space for it and that I was overreacting. And getting through all that and then letting that emotion just be what it is and being okay with it inside myself.

Speaker 2: 34:55

Terry's actually, a couple of times since that session, has said um, yeah, and that's because I know that they're either a good or a bad person. Like he's, like I I'm telling you, Carrie, and he he kind of leans into it. And when he does that I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna let you do that Trust it more, yeah, so he, it has given him some space.

Speaker 2: 35:15

He uses it kind of in that way, not necessarily like I'm having a feeling, but more of like um, I can read that person and I pay. Uh, I feel like I'm very intuitive to energies and so I'm like, hey, that matters to me what you're saying right now, that really matters. If you're feeling that about that person, I'm just going to join you in that.

Speaker 1: 35:34

Yeah, because the two of you, your intuition, works very differently, just receive the information differently. So he does. He gets that knowing and you're sensing more from what I remember like a higher chakra.

Speaker 2: 35:45

Mine's like pattern recognition. You know I'm using like information to guide it. It has to make sense to me, whereas him, it like hits him in the gut and he's like we don't need to walk down that path. And I've always thought like oh, that's like your military training, you're just stressing, you know what I mean. And he's like no, it's a feeling that I'm having and now that we've gone through this, instead of me being like you just see the worst in the world because of your military training I'm having. And now that we've gone through this, instead of me being like you just see the worst in the world because of your military training, I'm able to be like, if you feel that it's worth, you know, like it's worth me following that, what am I trying to go down that path for? Right, right, I don't have anything to prove why?

Speaker 2: 36:21

am I trying? I don't even know what's down there, I just like like to play.

Speaker 1: 36:28

Yeah, we can trust our partners so much more. Yeah, so much more in our kids and yeah, it's just been life changing for me as well. I love that you shared all that let's go back to. We haven't really even talked about work yet. Talk to me about moving from corporate to starting a business.

Speaker 2: 36:47

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 36:47

To starting an HR firm.

Speaker 2: 36:50

Yeah, I would say the longer I do this which April hit two years in my entrepreneurial journey the more vulnerable it seems. It's kind of like a faith journey. It's not like you learn and then all of a sudden you like get it.

Speaker 1: 37:03

Arrive.

Speaker 2: 37:04

It's like, the more you learn, the more, you recognize you have no clue and you have to learn to sit in that new knowledge that you're not going to understand a lot of things. That's how I felt about business. There's a big parallel to me and probably because I think God gave me all of these really clear giftings and I do feel like I'm using them in my professional life, which to me, is such a gift, I just want to inspire everyone to like do work that's in alignment with the gifts that God has given you, and it doesn't always look the same like running an HR firm, like God didn't like say, and it comes across in an HR firm you know, yeah, it was just like you have a good read on people.

Speaker 2: 37:42

You're strong, you can hold the burden of others. You're able to be honest, even if that will make someone uncomfortable.

Speaker 1: 37:51

What you're seeing, yeah, that's what I see in you.

Speaker 2: 37:53

Like you synthesize it, I can apply, take it and apply it, yeah yeah, I can, like, take a complex problem and create a path forward, and that's really encouraging for others. And so, um, it's been big. I mean, in the corporate life, I saw a lot of success and I saw a lot of financial success. You know, I females don't get C-suite titles near as often as they should, and I was fortunate enough to be one of those females that held one of those titles and I didn't take it lightly, you know, for a big company too. It wasn't a small company and I'm grateful for all of that. And I also am grateful for, you know, spending 20 years on my craft. So that way now I I really can sit in that full confidence. I'm a person who likes to know as much as I can possibly know, and I I'm not saying I know it all, but in 20 years I've got a good collection going to where I can truly make an impact on others, and so it feels euphoric on most days.

Speaker 2: 38:53

It feels really aligned and you know that's not because the day is simple or the day is easy, but I feel really energized by taking what I've built and sharing it with others and building something that I knew was needed, like I knew that was needed. I had seen it for years. I made it happen. I'm able to deliver. I see the impact. It's just like this wheel that I'm on. That is a really healthy one.

Speaker 1: 39:18

Yes, you are a very, very high achiever. Just, I would say across the board.

Speaker 2: 39:25

I want to say thank you to that. I don't know if you're praising me.

Speaker 1: 39:27

I am yeah girl, for sure I am Manifesting generator that can do a lot of different things and kind of manage a lot of projects and have your hand in a lot of different things. How, how do you think as a high achiever? How, how has tapping helped you, specifically Because I work with so many people that are very similar where it's like you can just get shit done, and I do absolutely mean that as a compliment. Like I love being in your energy, I'm soaking up some of that.

Speaker 2: 39:57

I'm going to be more productive for the rest of my day because I'm hanging out with you. Yeah, I would say it's helped me to get more present. My body would be first and foremost. I have been on a transformational health journey for the last couple of years and, little by little, you know, picking up these nuggets from people, applying what is healthy for me, trying to stay away from what triggers an old eating disorder, you know, like some stuff that I've had to heal from, and so I've been picking all of this up and I had therapy as part of that. And I've been picking all of this up and I had therapy as part of that, but I I never spent time in therapy thinking about the mind body connection.

Speaker 2: 40:38

We fight and flight, sure, like we, you know, we would talk about that, but not how to really get out of it, other than using my mind, and my mind is the first thing that I want to use. I don't want to use my heart, I don't want to use, like other parts of me. I want to like intellectualize or over intellectualize everything, and so really, that was feeding into my anxiety and, you know, like a lot of this other stuff, and so getting to a place where I can use my body to help my mind get to a healthier place felt really counterintuitive to me at the beginning. To let my mind follow my body versus my mind is always the boss. It's gotten me really far too, so I'm like it's good boss, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 41:19

That's what I mean. You know, for people that just are so successful and can get things done, it's hard to go wait, I'm going to like I'm not going to just power through this. I need to like pause and go back and investigate that it's like what. No, I don't want to do that.

Speaker 2: 41:34

I don't have time for that. Yeah, yesterday, you know, I shed some tears, I was feeling emotional and, um, after the phone call I was on, I went outside and I was like I know I need to tap. I know I need to tap. It was very clear. You know, there's some days where I'm like moving about my business and it just doesn't come up or I'll be like I need to take a walk, but I forget to tap while I'm doing it. But yesterday it was really clear Like I need to tap on that because that the tears fell out of my eyeballs without being asked, Like that was really hitting on something, and I was like walking around and just tapping and being like I'm stepping into my power and it feels good and I'm going to let that happen and it's not a bad thing. You know, like I was just like speaking some love back to myself for letting myself feel, for letting myself be present in my body, for being okay with the really strong, like lion, that I am just really letting myself be that way.

Speaker 1: 42:28

That's so powerful. That's so powerful Like we don't always have to voice the shit that we just went through.

Speaker 2: 42:35

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 42:35

But just recognizing, and I'm so freaking proud of myself I'm strong, yeah. For being so strong that I can be in these emotions.

Speaker 2: 42:42

Yeah. And that I can take the time to tap even yeah and strong in this case in the past, would have been ignoring it, powering through it, forgetting about it in my mind, rising above it. Yes, you know, I felt stronger than ever to be like. I felt feelings there, and that's good for me and that's propelling me into a new future.

Speaker 1: 43:19

I think what people don't realize is that that powering through and just kind of like pushing it to the side and going on to the next thing, there's so much literal magnetic energy in the expansion of the emotions and if we get so so good at holding and like kind of freezing that response, we're cutting ourself off at the knees and we don't even realize it, you know. And so every time we let that emotion move through, even if it doesn't feel good, we're keeping that magnetism, that channel open, and so that everything that we do is more amplified and the impact is bigger.

Speaker 2: 43:45

Yeah, and when I learned how open my heart was based on gene keys, how open my heart was based on gene keys, I was like I feel that so often, but I don't let it linger.

Speaker 2: 44:00

And I think one of the healthiest things I've done for myself is to be like oh, wow, I feel that in my heart. I'm feeling that in my heart for you. I'm feeling that in my heart for me. Whatever the situation is Like, I really feel that in my heart for you, I'm feeling that in my heart for me. Whatever the situation is, I really feel that in my heart and it's like wow isn't that amazing?

Speaker 1: 44:18

when's the?

Speaker 2: 44:19

last time that I let myself in my 20 year corporate career be like. I feel that in my heart right now and I'm just loving that for me.

Speaker 1: 44:29

I love it for you, I love it for everyone. I feel like our world right now is doing such a masculine-feminine balancing act, both men and women and everything in between. Finding this new balance between being able to do both and to have the strong masculine power but also have that more yin feminine, go inward, sit pause, be still you know, and it's kind of neat to neat. When was the last time I said that it's neato?

Speaker 2: 44:59

Neato.

Speaker 1: 45:00

Neato, it's very neat to watch the world. Yeah, do that and watch people do that and watch myself do it.

Speaker 2: 45:09

That's so interesting for you to bring that up because, um, that's, I had no idea where it was going. I still don't know where it's going, but when I first launched the business, I wasn't trying to launch the business, I was trying to study my feminine energy. That's literally where this whole thing started.

Speaker 1: 45:33

That's so interesting, so talk to me about that for you. What were you experiencing that you were like. You know what I need to investigate my feminine.

Speaker 2: 45:40

So when I left um, I sold my shares at a firm where I was um, where I was K one. I was one of the shareholders and I was like the girl who always said like I'm a, I'm a guy's gal, like I don't fit in with the women, I've always been you know what I mean Like girls don't like me, and that's okay.

Speaker 1: 46:04

You know like.

Speaker 2: 46:05

I belong in the boardroom with the fellas. I've never been one that's like I need a seat at the table Cause, like those homies better see that I deserve a seat at the table and if they don't, I'm out. You know, like I've never felt any of that or allowed myself or whatever. But here's how it looked. I got pregnant after being told, you know, I couldn't naturally have a baby and all that. So I got pregnant and the first thing I did was find a nanny. First thing I did I nursed for two years, so I do feel like I gave it my all. I knew Keegan was going to be my one and only.

Speaker 1: 46:36

Yeah, that's worth celebrating two years of breastfeeding. It's a huge deal.

Speaker 2: 46:39

Man, I would have done it longer but Terry was ready to own those again.

Speaker 1: 46:43

You know he was like that kid move on, move out. I shared he's taken a long time.

Speaker 2: 46:53

Like bless him. He was very patient with me because I was not ready to give that up, but I spent so much time like in the boardroom I never share pictures of my kids, never talked about being a mom. When I spent those two years nursing I would skip pumping sometimes. One time I freaking you know stereotypical like spilled the golden milk all over and I could have cried and I just sucked it up, went to my next meeting. I was throwing up. During all my pregnancy I was so sick I'd barf in my trash can and call the next person in. I wouldn't even go rinse my mouth out.

Speaker 2: 47:28

Like I was such a machine and that masculine energy really made me rise to the top. Um, and it afforded us a great life. You know, like fly in private, it's fun. I loved what we were doing and, um, and what it afforded us. But at the end of the day, what I realized is like I had never thought about what it would be like to show up as a woman.

Speaker 2: 47:51

And when I left that organization I left with a pretty large suitcase of pain that followed me and I took some time and went to Israel for a few weeks to go on a spiritual journey, and I did. God definitely met me in that place, but the coolest thing that came out of it was, on a freaking bus, this guy. He was asking me, like what do you do for work? And I was like I actually am not working right now. Um, I'm taking the few months off. I, you know, was afforded the opportunity based on selling my shares, and so I'm trying to figure out what's next. I mean, they're starting a business. I'm going back into corporate. I don't know.

Speaker 2: 48:29

And I said, what I really want to understand is, before I go anywhere, here's what's on my heart. I need to know what it looks like to go back or start fresh as a woman, because I never have. I've spent 20 years being like emotions gross, they get you nowhere, sharing about whatever yuck, that's not going to help me in business, like, and also, if you do that, you're wearing me out, let's not. Let's stick to the facts. I'm not a small talker, I just want to jump into the work. I've always struggled to like make the relational connection first. If I'm doing that, it's usually because I'm trying to manipulate you in some way, not in a negative way, but you know what I mean. I know that you need us. You need us to build relationships so we can get the work accomplished.

Speaker 1: 49:13

So I will do that for you, but I don't want to, I don't care, I don't value that Not truly coming from your heart, more of like from your head, like I'm going to connect with you?

Speaker 2: 49:19

Yeah, it was a total tactic that I would use and I mean it was fine, but it and so perpetuating that like I don't fit in here, feeling like people didn't know me, and I would recognize like, oh, if I would have Keegan draw a picture and give it to some of the women, they would like me more. So I would be like Keegs, stop by the. You know we're gonna stop by the office, but it was never like out of a genuine place. It was like a strategy for my leadership and I was like I don't want to live like that. What what a weird. I was literally trying to be a man and I mean like I am a voluptuous woman. You're a beautiful woman.

Speaker 2: 49:54

Thank you Like I, there's no mistaking when you look at me like I am a girl and so, um, it's weird that I've just like always acted like that was the elephant in the room, like we're just not going to act like that and one of the reasons why I was hurt so bad I wasn't invited on a fishing trip with the guys, I wasn't invited with a golf trip with the guys and like cause it was a guy's trip but man it chapped my rear end because I was one of them, I was sure of it.

Speaker 2: 50:20

And so this guy was like read this book. It's called through his eyes by Jerem bars, and this guy teaches at a seminary actually in St Louis, Missouri I'm, you know, in Missouri. And so I was like that's super cool, I'll pick that book up. And the whole premise of the book is how does God view women? And this is no knock on my Southern Baptist upbringing, but they view women differently than what I learned in this book and really started to see how God used women and I was like this is it? I need to blaze my own trail in this new place.

Speaker 1: 51:00

Can you give us some examples of what specific you learned about, like how God sees women through this?

Speaker 2: 51:06

book. Yeah, Like as leaders, as freaking bosses, as people who can shape culture, as people who stand beside or in front of military personnel to guide, people who can judge politicians. Like there's tons of examples in the Bible but for some reason I only saw men's names in the Bible growing up Like I couldn't have even told you most of these names, or like they were very secondary and it might be a brief clip, but also a man was writing these texts. So yeah, it's like a brief clip that you get.

Speaker 1: 51:44

There's a man leading Right and I mean you know stereotypical, but usually yeah.

Speaker 2: 51:49

So when the story is getting told, like I would take the brevity of the story and attach the importance of the woman to the amount of words written and not necessarily the construct or what was trying to get across, or like what was actually happening in the life of that woman at that time and it threw me for a loop I was just like I have undervalued women and I am one.

Speaker 1: 52:15

Wow, I've undervalued women, my whole life. It was astronomical for me that's a huge revelation.

Speaker 2: 52:23

I was like. I will immediately stop saying I'm a guy's gal. I will immediately stop saying it's hard to work with women. Like I am part of the problem.

Speaker 1: 52:33

And.

Speaker 2: 52:34

I feel like professionally when we say, like men, hold women, like girls do it too, oh, hell yeah. And I actually think it's more painful when girls do it, because, men, a lot of times you're doing it out of ignorance, women are freaking mean.

Speaker 1: 52:47

Yeah, they can't be out of envy or jealousy or competition or their own hurt, because they aren't being valued or they don't feel like they're being valued.

Speaker 2: 52:54

Or for me, my upbringing and I love my parents to the ends of the earth, but my mom was a stay at home mom. That's where she found her value, where our family found her value and I. It was very formative to me to have a mother who was there, available to me. So I don't knock that at all Very, very important. But when I decided to be a business woman, I felt like I couldn't be a woman because where I grew up, all the women stayed at home.

Speaker 2: 53:18

I felt like an alien talking to them. None of them were asking me like what I was working on or you know, like how work was going. They were all like how are? And I would just be like that's all you want to talk about. I have so much going for me. I'm going to talk to the men. But the men in that area weren't real hype on talking to me either, and so I was just like I don't like this. I'm just going to go be with the businessmen Like value what I have to bring to the table, and I've discredited women the whole time. So the last two years has been like a great untangling for me.

Speaker 1: 53:58

Yeah, so powerful, and I know that you have a team of women that you work with now, so I would imagine that's completely different with your team now.

Speaker 2: 54:02

Yeah, I mean, um, you know, if you're listening and would love to sue me, I would never say that I would only select a woman to work for my team, you know what I mean, like I, get that from a discrimination or reverse discrimination perspective, but what I want to do is give good paying jobs with good benefits to people.

Speaker 2: 54:21

A lot of times, this ends up being women who have been undervalued but are capable of so much, and also they are passionate moms or wives or women, whatever that looks like in their life, whatever they have, and I want to partner with those people, whatever that and build together, yeah, and literally see them for who they are and honor it constantly.

Speaker 1: 54:45

As much as I possibly can, I want to uplift them I love that, and it brings me back to the gene keys again, because one of the one of the overarching themes throughout the gene keys that pops up many, many times is this move from hierarchy to something he calls synarchy, which is really being being able to build together rather than having this like top down kind of thing. And I think you know, on some level there always has to be some sort of organization. It's like we have bones in our body so that we're organized and we can walk around. You know there's always going to be something, but but I I think that that is the future, that kind of leadership that can build people up and build together.

Speaker 2: 55:26

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out what it looks like because I, um, I don't put CEO on anything. There's a couple of things there. It's not like a large organization that feels super formal, you know, like there's some stuff like that, and also I'm an HR leader. So for me to put CEO like I'm, I'm your fractional HR leader, I'm your fractional COO. So I don't really want to be known as the CEO, but I love being known as the founder. I did start this, I steered this ship, I, you know, I built this house or whatever. But, um, I see that really clearly in the way I like to operate with my team too, like I literally like without any a, without a mark. They do the work and I mean I can guide and direct and say grace and approve the financial piece or whatever. They're the ones doing it. They make it work like that.

Speaker 1: 56:12

Yeah, it sounds like you are bringing together some very, very wonderful, cool women.

Speaker 2: 56:18

It is a cool group and I feel really strongly that we've only just begun.

Speaker 1: 56:25

Oh yeah, it does feel like that, for sure, it definitely does. There's so much I know that we could talk about with the work that you do. But I want to make sure we talk about, like, if somebody's listening and they're like, ooh, I actually need an HR firm. You know what are some of the growing pains that somebody might be going through.

Speaker 2: 56:42

If you're like, yep, we are your people, we're going to come in and your life is gonna be so much better. Yeah, I would say you know, first and foremost, a lot of people feel like, as a business owner, I should know what I need in this space. So I understand that it's. There's some humility that comes along with being like I need something, but I don't even understand this function, so I don't even know what to ask for and so, most generally, what we do. And this has evolved over time because initially my business was built around my own network it's a large network that I've built over 20 years and so my clients trusted me as a known business professional and so I was able to start with six and 12 month contracts with those folks because they know I'm like good for it and then I'm going to show up and I'm going to help guide them and they're like knowing they're needing something. They don't know what it is, but they just trust me. Well, I understand like, the further I get away from my one-on-one or two-in-one connections my friend of a friend that they can't just trust like that, like I'm just another person selling something in the marketplace now.

Speaker 2: 57:47

So what we've pivoted to in a second year of our business is HR audits, and so that really puts the power back in the business owners or the CEOs, the president's hands, which is where it belongs. It's their business. I don't want them to feel like I'm taking them in a place that they don't want to go. And HR, it's your people, so it does shift your culture. I do want to shift your culture, likely because there's a need there.

Speaker 2: 58:09

So we do this HR audit, which is usually our first month. We just do a one month engagement with folks, we do a deep dive, we take the work on. So we're not like send me all your documentation. We literally sit down with you, we ask you a ton of questions and then we compile the gaps that we see. And as long as someone can allow themselves to be vulnerable with me, this is scary to be like actually we don't have that. But it's like yeah, of course you don't. You're not an HR professional, like I expect you to have this, I just want to gauge where you're at.

Speaker 2: 58:36

And then we create our recommendations that we give at the end of the assessment or the audit, where we essentially prioritize like here's all the gaps, what's important to you and here's what you should know from a risk management perspective, from a financial perspective and then maybe, um, like people who are at the people side of things that are at risk, so we help them prioritize that genuinely.

Speaker 2: 58:59

If they were like we can do all of that, then we just pat them on the rear and tell them do it, like we're pumped for you, right. Most of them end up in a contract with us because they're like cool, okay, and I usually say we can build the foundation, you go, run with it, we build the foundation, we run with it. Maybe we build the foundation, we run with it, and then in three months somebody on your team can run with it, like after we've got it developed. It's not my goal to lock people in forever contracts or be a security blanket. That has happened with a few clients and I I love them and I'm grateful for those long-term clients or whatever, but our goal is to continually back them down.

Speaker 2: 59:36

So if I spend a day a week with a client for six months or three months, I am the first one to say like hey, you actually don't need me this much anymore, let's just have a call each week. I don't need to dedicate a full day. Or maybe we with several clients, we've gotten to the point where I call them once a month. I'm sending them via email legal updates and stuff like that, and you know like hey, you need to get in your handbook and change to this verbiage or whatever, but we have a call once a month. Or sometimes they call me and say like hey, I got an issue and that's their call that month. But, um, it's truly as outsourced as it should be, not as I want it to be, but as each business as it makes sense for them.

Speaker 1: 1:00:14

Okay, so talk to me like I'm a five year old. Okay, um, so say I'm somebody and I have a team maybe of like 15 people. What kind of specific issues? Like, even if they don't know that they need an HR? You know what I'm saying? Like, if somebody's listening, they're like I don't even know. So are they like, are systems not in place for? Like, give me some examples.

Speaker 2: 1:00:37

Yeah, so small business like that.

Speaker 2: 1:00:39

A lot of times they pride themselves in saying like, oh, just, a lot of people are wearing a lot of different hats. And I have like a physical response to that Um, because, as the business owner, we think these people are a lot of times our friends, or they become our friends Cause they're, you know, from there, with us from the very beginning. But those people need clarity, and so usually through the HR audit, what we uncover is there's not clarity on roles. So maybe this role is really three roles, and like that person can not be three different personalities. They just can't have all those skillsets you know what I mean? Like they just probably don't. And so we need to delineate what they're doing versus what other people are doing, get people settled in more clear lanes so they can succeed, and then help them understand. For every single role, what does success look like? Like how would I know, as an employee, that I am succeeding in my role? So we put metrics in place for that, and that sounds way more complicated than it is no, that makes sense.

Speaker 2: 1:01:31

It's literally like just what are they supposed to be doing? And did they do it every month, Like how would they know?

Speaker 1: 1:01:37

Having a way to measure if your employee is meeting the expectations. Yeah, like an actual guide for them, and for them, and for you, for you.

Speaker 2: 1:01:46

So you've got the job descriptions, you put the metrics in place and then usually I'll run like an employee satisfaction or employee engagement survey to guide some future work. There might be obvious gaps. Like your handbook was a template that you pulled down off of open AI, like let's make sure it works for your business. Let's take a look at your benefits package. You don't have to have the traditional benefits, but there's things that we can do to help you recruit and retain. Are there any roles that you need to be hiring for? But then also, if we do that satisfaction engagement survey, I can take that data and say, like here's how your people are feeling. So this is we need more communication, or maybe we're low on trust with leadership, or you know, like there's an area where the wheels are falling off, and so then we can really get pointed in those specific areas and make a path forward. And that's where, like, the joy lives in business.

Speaker 1: 1:02:32

I can see how. That's how the culture is influenced too.

Speaker 2: 1:02:35

Yeah, cause, then your people get happy and then your people feel like, oh, we're a real company and it matters what I'm doing and I understand how my work ties back to the vision of this organization. We put some values in place. Now I can know am I living by those values as an employee? Am I aligned with this company? At the end of the day, there's just a ton of formative work that can do, that can go on during that that a business leader like doesn't have time to do. I get it.

Speaker 1: 1:02:58

Right, and they still a lot of them. I worked with so many people through the years that they don't have the time, but they still have the mindset that they should know how to do it. Yeah, and it's keeping them up at night. It's literally impacting their sleep.

Speaker 2: 1:03:12

At the beginning, I was toying around with the tagline like I want to help you sleep better at night.

Speaker 1: 1:03:16

I like that. Give me some specific. Where are my words? Specific man I'm struggling with that one. Let me try again Promise. Specific man I'm struggling with that one. Let me try again. Promise I haven't been drinking, although it sounds like it suddenly specific things that are keeping them up at night.

Speaker 2: 1:03:35

Um, if this one person left it, it would just shit the bed.

Speaker 1: 1:03:39

For my company, that's one of the biggest yes and I could see how that would happen if they have like three or four or five undefined roles Because they don't even know exactly what that person is doing.

Speaker 2: 1:03:48

But they know they're doing a lot, they're doing a lot and they don't know exactly what that looks like. So I'm actually doing something for a client right now. He's got an employee that's been there for over 25 years and this person is pushing some big buttons. Pushing some big buttons like they hold some big um, they run the export part of the business and 60% of their business is export. So it's a really big deal and this person, um, is really disruptive and so they might leave or they might have to leave. But it's really scary. Can't literally fire the person.

Speaker 2: 1:04:26

Could do something egregious today and it would be like I'm pretty sure that business owner would be like we're just going to have to let it fly because they do too much in the business. So what we're doing as kind of a non-invasive step is we're doing SOPs, so standard operating procedures for every single role. We're starting out in operations administration because they need this anyway. But you will feel less held hostage by a toxic employee or just any employee, because people grow and leave. You know, like I mentioned, my ea is leaving. I love her endlessly. She's moving on and we need to be okay with that, because we started this business and we need to get back in touch with what's actually going on in our business. That's the responsibility of ours. But these SOPs we're mapping out.

Speaker 2: 1:05:08

First thing, we're doing everybody's task dumping.

Speaker 2: 1:05:11

Here's every single task that I do in a day, week, month, quarterly or annually, and then for each of those tasks, I gave them a template and you're writing a standard operating procedure for every single task that you accomplish Interrelated processes, what technology you use, even what freaking passwords, the steps inside of the tech, the contacts outside of the organization like going through all of it and I've given them a framework to help them through this process.

Speaker 2: 1:05:37

Once that's done, then, for any process that no one else knows how to do, we're cross-training person, because there should be no. If we care, as employees, about business sustainability, if we want a job to last, if we want to have a job available to us, then we need to make sure that the business can run without us. If you know, like I had breast cancer removed in 2019, like the business had to go on without a COO for a while, and so if I care about that business deeply, I make sure that people are cross-trained, so we'll go through cross-training. It's about a month long process to really get it done well, at the end of the month, that business owner will sleep better at night.

Speaker 1: 1:06:16

Oh my gosh, I'm just sitting here thinking of so many people that I've tapped with, because on my side what I do is we, we kind of identify like, where is the fear coming from? And a lot of times it is because there's not. You know, there's not. These, did you say, sops? Those things aren't in place and, um, and they do have these people that have so many roles that are undefined, and so if that one person leaves, then they're terrified. So we work on the fear right, so that they can get out of fight or flight, and then the clarity and the ideas start to come in. And a lot of times it is like, oh, I just need to create a process, I need to, um, I need to cross train somebody. So we come at it like from a totally different angle. But I'm like I can see how having you all come in and do all of this would just create such a strong foundation so that people could take a deep, freaking breath.

Speaker 2: 1:07:05

Yeah, and the goal is to not, you know, make your employees indispensable. I've been at organizations who have been too black and white, which make it feel like anyone could come in and read the job or read the SOP and be able to do, or the work, instruction or whatever. That's not the goal, like, I want you to bring your life and your personality and all of the flair to it, but stuff's going to happen because this is life and we can't take that for granted.

Speaker 1: 1:07:27

And so having the expectation that changes will happen. I think, is much more realistic.

Speaker 2: 1:07:34

People aren't going to stay forever, or even if you want to promote them into it. A lot of times this happens you want to promote them into a bigger role, but no one knows how to do their job. So now that employee is held hostage at that role and they want to grow in advance, but no one knows how to do what they do. Like let's help them work themselves out of that job into another position. If you come at it with a curious posture like help me to understand how this works, not like I'm worried you're going to leave, you know? Yeah, yeah, if you come out.

Speaker 1: 1:08:05

I'm scared of you. Yeah, I don't want to make you mad. I don't want to leave by you.

Speaker 2: 1:08:09

Yeah, but really, I bet a lot of times that employee maybe isn't taking vacation, isn't? They're not resting well, or they? They would like to explore something else, but they feel like you know, like just on both sides of the house it's not helpful.

Speaker 1: 1:08:26

Oh my gosh. So much healthier to know these are the expectations and this is how I'm being measured, rather than that kind of like that doubt of am I, am I doing what they want, and always questioning because it's not actually outlined? Yeah, I work with a lot of people in that space too, you know, so I can see how on both sides is just incredibly helpful and makes everything feel more safe.

Speaker 2: 1:08:47

It also helps them to know what they really need to be focusing their time on. It helps from a prioritization perspective too, because when I sat down with my EA and I was like one of the most important things to me is that you get me ironically booked on someone else's podcast every single month. I put out podcast episodes every week but, like, until you borrow someone else's audience, you know there's tons of data out there. Then you're just not going to grow. And when I told her that that that was one of the most important things and that that was a measure I was looking at, all of a sudden I'm showing up because you get what you measure. Like, what you're giving your attention to is what's going to arrive. If you're not giving your attention to it, it's not going to magically happen. So when I told her that, she was like gotcha she's blocking time out of her calendar to make sure that it happens. And now boom top priority.

Speaker 2: 1:09:31

I'm on podcasts all the time.

Speaker 1: 1:09:32

Amazing. Okay, I'm also like oh, I've been thinking, anyway, I need to start focusing on getting on other people's podcasts there was the sign. I'm like, okay, that's the thing I need to do. That. Yeah, that's huge. Okay, we're going to shift gears. You have a recent diagnosis that I am fascinated with and I would love to talk about it. If you're comfortable with it, Talk to us about your experience with this new diagnosis and what you've got going on.

Speaker 2: 1:10:01

Yeah. So I actually just mentioned this to one of my girlfriends the other day. I was like I think I'm having a Kelly uh, kelly Howe coming out party. Like I think I'm having a coming out party on her podcast because I haven't said it publicly.

Speaker 1: 1:10:17

Um, and we don't have to do this. No, I want to yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:10:20

And I've been thinking about it Like the very first time I ever shared it with you. I've known it for months, but the very first time I ever shared it with you, I knew it wasn't something that you were just going to like. Not that you were like, oh, we need to go super deep on that, but it was like I knew it was going to come up again. Yeah, we're digging deep into me it's important for me to know.

Speaker 2: 1:10:37

Yeah, so, um, so yeah, first of all, I would start out by there's so many people who have preconceived notions about this and opinions based off of experiences that they've had, and so, you know, I just like ask people to just listen, to be aware of that, yeah, because you've been listening to me be very communicative, be very articulate. I can pick up social cues. Be very articulate, I can pick up social cues. You know, there's a lot of things that would cause someone to be like you know. So when I found out I was on the spectrum, the very first thing I had to learn was what it meant, what the word spectrum meant.

Speaker 1: 1:11:19

Right, I mean, I think that that I had a new clarity just in our conversations. Of course, that's why they call it a spectrum. Yes, because there's very different aspects of this.

Speaker 2: 1:11:29

Yeah, and I think when I and I've rarely shared it, but even when I shared it, like, let's say, with my own mother, saying I have autism is sounds so scary or it can, depending on the feelings that you have on it. And so explaining that, like the spectrum is not on the feelings that you have on it, and so explaining that like the spectrum is not on a one end you have autism and on the other end you do not, the spectrum is more like neurotypical is in the middle, and so the spectrum goes out both sides of neurotypical, and neurotypical is the regular brains, the normal brains. You know what I mean. So the normies, yeah, which really, who is?

Speaker 1: 1:12:06

that Right. I don't know. I don't know If that's in the middle of the spectrum.

Speaker 2: 1:12:09

You're still on the spectrum.

Speaker 2: 1:12:10

But, like one end might be, I cannot pick up on social cues. The other end of the spectrum is I am highly sensitive to social cues, which is where I'm at. On one end might be struggles to communicate. On other end might be over-communicate, struggles with over-sharing, and just because you sit at one end of the spectrum in some areas, you don't sit on that same end of the spectrum in all areas and manifest in different ways. And that's because it's a brain synaptic issue. It's not like everybody with autism just popped out and we're all the same way and some of it came I mean, they're still, they're uncovering research every day but some of it's based on traumatic brain injury, which the assumption is. That's where I had a TBI at the age of nine and a major brain surgery, and we don't know because it was going undiagnosed in childhood and I am 42. So it definitely wasn't getting brought up, unless you were like not speaking. You know it definitely wasn't getting brought up when I was a kid and so did I already have it.

Speaker 2: 1:13:15

I don't know, Was the TBI the trigger? Maybe the data would show, probably for me, because we don't see any of it in my family otherwise. But like we don't know, you know, like it's all a bunch of TBD and probably we'll never know.

Speaker 1: 1:13:31

Right. I mean, there's so much we don't know about from what I understand, about what causes it. I know that there's information about brain inflammation and there's so many aspects of our environment that create inflammation in the brain.

Speaker 2: 1:13:43

Right.

Speaker 1: 1:13:43

And certainly TBIs. Traumatic experiences like that make sense. So talk about how you, how you came to this diagnosis, you found a doctor and how did that all unfold.

Speaker 2: 1:13:55

So, um, and I would also say, there's a bunch of people that are like, uh, why did autism just start showing up? And I would say, um, it it likely went undiagnosed. It is happening a lot more due to our environment. I do fully believe that. I think I hear people kind of like, pick one or the other.

Speaker 1: 1:14:12

It's like, oh, it's just, it's not the environment, it's just being diagnosed more, or the other full direction of like I think both is true. I think both are true. I think both are true. I think that there's more things causing it, more environmental toxins and and traumas and things like that causing it, and I think it's being diagnosed more because we're more educated and there's more research.

Speaker 2: 1:14:35

Yeah, and I would say, like my path to even getting to the point where I could realize that I, that I had this, has been a long journey of me recognizing things in myself but then getting diagnosed as other things, which I'm not saying the other things weren't correct. Like I do struggle with obsessive compulsive disorder, I do struggle with social anxiety, um, but a lot of like, when you start to piece those together, like those are typical autism symptoms instead of conditions, and I think you know doctors and therapists are becoming more and more aware of that. So when I it really started for me, when, um, I had a physician or a therapist to tell me this is social anxiety, this is how this is manifesting. I was, I was drinking a lot, um, I was always using substance in a social setting and it was a mix between, like, feeling unknown by people and then also, just like I love to um, think through the entire conversation before it happens. So I can be like, if this person says this, then I will either say this or this, and then that might make them say this, which then I would respond with this or this. So that's how my brain works, which I've since learned is very common for people with autism, like the rumination.

Speaker 2: 1:15:49

And so for me to go into a social setting that's unknown is really scary and will cause me a ton of anxiety which makes me not want to go.

Speaker 2: 1:16:00

So for me to be able to go, I was altering myself and, um, I didn't know why that was. I thought I was overstimulated at work and just like wasn't letting my body rest well enough, and so I was like I'm doing yoga, I'm getting sleep at night, like I don't know why I can't. And then I started to have panic attacks, and when I had the worst panic attack, I was like I would rather go into a hospital than have to do this life this way. And so that person did not recognize the autism in me, but he was like you need medicine, which is when I gave up caffeine. I took the reverse, because I was trying, I started, was starting to go down a more natural path, and so I eliminated caffeine, and that's been, um may well be six years since I've eliminated caffeine entirely and I just won't be drinking that anymore. It's just not good for a person who struggles with anxiety. Sure, sure, because it's a stimulant on top of an already stimulated nervous system.

Speaker 2: 1:16:56

So learning that helped me understand like, oh, I've got some things about me that most people would not understand. If you met me in a social setting, you would say I'm magnetic, I'm either drawing people in or, you know, like I light up a room, like these are the type of things that I'm totally comfortable on stage, like put me in front of 400 people, like I'll knock it out of the park. It's the small group setting that was really bothering me. And so fast forward a couple of years from that and I met a physician on Tik TOK of all places, and she was fascinating. And she wasn't talking about autism. What she was talking about was neurodivergence, which is what drew me to her. Yeah and um, because I'm, I was highly aware that I was different, like neurodivergent.

Speaker 2: 1:17:41

I'm definitely neurodivergent, yeah, so I was like I don't know whether that's ADHD or yeah, there's a lot of things that fall into that bucket, and so I was thinking like OCD and um, social anxiety, like certain certainly have some neurodivergence, and so, specifically that the OCD.

Speaker 2: 1:17:57

And so I started following her and I reached out to her and she, um, she was like hey, I would recommend that you take the RADS assessment, which is autism and Asperger's um and an assessment that you can get access to online. And she was like I'd be curious what you think I can either work with you or there are a ton of organizations that can do assessments, like one, for example, is NeuroSpark, but there's a ton out there that you can do assessments with and they'll give you an assessment and then they'll also talk to you and give you a verbal assessment and help you to understand. And I tell you what. I took that RADS assessment and it was like plain as fricking day. Yeah, I scored extremely high, which, again, that's really where my journey of understanding the spectrum and I'm still understanding it, trying to, but where I was like dang, I scored really high, not like off the chart, but toward the highest end, to where my logical brain would tell me it's a miracle I can even communicate.

Speaker 2: 1:18:55

But it's like that's not the way the spectrum works. I scored really high because I hit in a lot of the areas, but that doesn't mean that I'm non-communicative, Right, and so it's just this weird. Um, I mean I don't call autism a disease by any stretch of the imagination, because it's just the way my brain works. Um, like that just kind of blows my mind and I understand people have it in all different ways and so there might be somebody that's listening. Right now. That's like my child can't communicate and this has been disabling and.

Speaker 2: 1:19:23

I'm not trying to take away from that. Just where I'm at and what I've been learning is I don't view it that way in my life.

Speaker 1: 1:19:30

I just like this is just the way my brain works and I'm learning to understand it more every day and I have seen such a shift in you feeling so good with that yeah, with that diagnosis, just feeling like we'll talk to us about how that, how that feels for you to be able to be like. Oh, now I understand.

Speaker 2: 1:19:48

Yeah, uh, relationally it's been really huge.

Speaker 2: 1:19:51

But also just like wondering why, like in the professional setting, wondering why someone else can't do what I can do, or wondering why they can't be more logical, or like why it doesn't make sense to them, or why they can't separate the emotion from the doing.

Speaker 2: 1:20:12

Just all of those things I've learned is, um, I mean to me like this autism superpower and the same way with I am such a confident, declarative person. But I think if you were looking from the outside, you might think, oh, I'm coming across as a know-it-all or you know, or like how did I get that way? And it's like well, what I've learned is our synapses prune themselves, usually as children, and so we've all got all of these stems with synapses, and the neurotypical brain prunes at an appropriate rate, and the autistic brain does not. And so when I'm thinking through things, I'm thinking through a bananas amount of things, and so when I come to a decision, I feel like I've already thought through your thoughts and my thoughts and two other people's thoughts. So I'm like, yep, this is how this lands, just period, point blank.

Speaker 2: 1:21:08

And I'm not saying I can't have my mind changed, but you better come out with me with some facts and some stats and some data and some patterns, because if you come at me with some feelings, I'm like no, that's not gonna work for me, like I've already, thought this way through and when I first was explaining it to my husband he laughed and said oh man, that's why you got to think about this takes longer, you know, like sounds complicated and I was like that's so funny that you feel that way, because I feel like that makes me a better decision maker than you.

Speaker 1: 1:21:38

Like when I first yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:21:40

When I learned that I was just like yeah, no wonder that I have considered things so deeply and that I'm such a passionate, convicted person, you know, because I'm like oh yeah, I've thought that round and round.

Speaker 1: 1:21:53

Yeah. So you just felt really understood, yeah, like oh yeah, that makes a ton of sense. Finally, my brain makes sense.

Speaker 2: 1:21:59

Yeah, or just like the fact that.

Speaker 2: 1:22:01

I like to play things out before a conversation. Like I even tell my girlfriends like my two best friends in the whole world. When they came out to see me the other day, I was like one of them just joked and said, well, what conversation should we have next? And I was like, well, I thought we might talk about you know like? And they started laughing. They're like don't do that with us. And I was like I love you all for telling me not to do that with you, but like, just, I literally do it.

Speaker 1: 1:22:24

It's not because I'm scared, it's just what I do. Yeah, it's just the way my brain works. It's just what I do. Well, thank you for sharing that, cause I would imagine that there's people out there with similar struggles. You know, I what I found very fascinating about this whole thing is because you are such a high achiever and you just for me. My preconceived notion was that I wouldn't put a high achiever with autism and that is obviously so incorrect. So it really shined light on that for me. And I remember saying to you I was like oh, I'm thinking of other clients and maybe this is something for them to explore, just to understand themselves. But also we have also been digging into your human design and your gene keys and a lot of these traits align, show up in your blueprint, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:23:12

So when I yeah, to give the listeners a little preview. So when I was like this might have happened with my TBI, you were pretty much like no, I think it's you. I mean not that you were, like you know, trying to be medically declarative, but you were like also, this shows up, yeah, and I mean I think and again, both I think are true.

Speaker 1: 1:23:28

you know cause. I know enough about brain injury to know that that can have some serious lasting effects. Um, but you know, it was like every time we would get into another one of your gene keys to deeply explore, it felt like we were getting this God message that was like and you're created like this on purpose, you know. So it was just an interesting balance of this diagnosis that you've gotten and just feeling so heard and understood and like recognized and known, and then also we're going into this other, this completely other facet, and looking at what if I was like created this way and some of these things that feel like my quirks, and what if these are my superpowers and my natural shadows that I fall into?

Speaker 2: 1:24:12

Yeah, and I, I like I'm obviously not diagnosing the masses here, but if you're a woman listening to this, or a man and think of a woman who rubs you the wrong way because of their either perceived aggression and I'm not talking about people who have PTSD and major trauma, like it shows up but somebody who's rubbing you the wrong way because they're so declarative, because they're so articulate, because they don't seem to notice hierarchy and they keep skipping around the freaking hierarchy, or you know any of those like kind of offensive behaviors and a high performing woman and you're questioning her motives or her intentions, like that woman may have autism.

Speaker 2: 1:24:55

And for me, I have sat in this seat where I know people question my, my motives and intentions because of my levels of high performance and then also my ability to be like, um, yeah, I'm just not going to have feelings about that, we're just going to be logical here and, um, that's hurtful, you know, to people who are sitting in their feelings, and so, um, for me to understand that, like, that's just, you know people call it like risen with the tism, or you know like the touch of the tis or whatever.

Speaker 2: 1:25:22

Like I love all of those fun, like little quirky things that get said about autism. It makes me laugh because it's true, like that's my autism coming out and it's just making you feel some type of way. And that's not something that I can fix Right. I can't fix it for me and I also can't fix it for you.

Speaker 1: 1:25:40

It all continues to come back to this realization that we need to be aware of ourself because we can't change someone else. We cannot change someone else. So if we have an issue with somebody and they're pushing all our buttons because they're a certain way, we still have to deal with our own stuff. We still have to deal with our own reactions to it, our own emotions around it. What kind of things that might bring up from our past, our own emotions around?

Speaker 1: 1:26:06

it what kind of things that might bring up from our past. You know, like, as you're saying, to have no emotion, like for me that would. That would bring up traumas from growing up, from feeling like misunderstood around my emotions and feeling like that's not welcome here. So I'm just going to have to shut that down.

Speaker 2: 1:26:17

So maybe you might think, if I'm not touching my emotions, maybe there's something that I haven't worked through there that's unsafe. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but a person in that seat might look at someone like me and be like oh, your ability to do that probably means that you're unhealed. But, like for me, it's like I actually just don't have access to those feelings and attachment to what I'm trying to produce. I have hyper-focus, and hyper-focus means like slicing through it.

Speaker 1: 1:26:45

Yeah, I think in general, making assumptions about people and I have been guilty about this a million times because I'm also very good at seeing patterns and feeling energy and and just with the work that I do, you know, but again, I think this is one of the places where human design and gene keys really shine is is being like I can just stop making assumptions about why somebody is doing something. You know, and they might just be built that way, or maybe they do have autism or you know, like I don't need to make those assumptions, or it might just be come back to my universe literally laying it out like this for for you to learn something.

Speaker 2: 1:27:20

I mean like oh yeah the heck.

Speaker 1: 1:27:22

No, totally Right and all of it, but but I think just like getting out of our judgment of why is that other person doing that and feeling righteous about they're doing it wrong or they're doing it right or you know, and just coming back to but like how can I deal with myself? That's so much of my message right now is like okay, all this is going on, but but really the global impact comes when we all start doing our inner work.

Speaker 1: 1:27:47

Like everything changes if everybody stops projecting yeah and starts going inward and being like oh wow, I'm really hurting around that. I have some unhealed emotions around that, you know yeah, I'm designed this way. Oh, look at that.

Speaker 2: 1:28:01

Yes, and what all does that mean? And what's on the other side of the shadow like? If this feels, then I need to be aware of what the shadow could be Like. T and I were driving to dinner last night and he said something about money. And as soon as he said it I said money flows to me freely like water. And he started laughing and um, that card we pulled he was like.

Speaker 2: 1:28:19

that doesn't feel genuine to me, Carrie, and I go. Well, what you said felt limiting, so I felt like I had to throw it out there. I had to flip it around.

Speaker 1: 1:28:26

Oh my gosh, I love that. Okay, we are an hour and 30 minutes, which I want to keep going, if you're okay with it. Cause I have one more thing I want to talk about, but I know that there's a thing I left space 1230 is when I do so, I'm doing good.

Speaker 1: 1:28:39

Okay, perfect. Okay. So there was when we started working together I don't know, it was maybe a couple months after we were working together you shared on social media part of your experience and that you were using this new tool, this tapping, and I, of course, loved it. I thought you know. I was like oh, I'm so glad she's sharing that. I know where this is going.

Speaker 1: 1:29:03

Yeah, yeah, I was so thrilled that you were sharing it because you know, I mean, where this is going. Yeah, yeah, I was. I was so thrilled that you were sharing it, cause you know, I mean, that is like, at the end of the day, that's what I. I love in whatever way the universe wants to do. I love getting this tool in front of new people and just giving them access to something that might work for them. You know, that really, really lights me up, but you got a little bit of pushback from some followers, maybe some friends. I know that you have such a strong Christian faith and I would love to talk about some of the comments that you got, if you're okay sharing about it, and what your thoughts and feelings are on tools like tapping or even like human design and gene keys, cause I think probably some of those same people would would think that those things weren't okay. So are you okay sharing about that?

Speaker 2: 1:29:55

Yeah, man, I tell you, there's just so much depth to this conversation.

Speaker 1: 1:30:00

We've already been going for a long time. I'm sure we could have a whole nother podcast about this?

Speaker 2: 1:30:04

Um, cause it is. It's very complex. I mean, we're sitting here with cards in front of us, um, and that would be also highly offensive, um, so ironic. Just last night, uh, keegan and I Keegan and I were reading.

Speaker 2: 1:30:17

We read a chapter of the Bible every night, reading in second Kings, and if you don't know much about second Kings, second Kings is a chapter pretty much dedicated to kings.

Speaker 2: 1:30:27

So it's like this king came into power because his dad died usually, and he would either saw favor in the eyes of the Lord or followed in the bad ways of his own father, and so he either worshipped Asherah poles and had other idols that he worshiped, or he let God lead. And that's usually the start of the chapter and then it kind of runs through what happened and at the end it sums it back up again. Are these not found in the books of the Kings, the annals of Judah? You know like he found favor in the eyes of the Lord. He rested with his father's next person.

Speaker 2: 1:31:02

So this is like what we've been going through in Kings and just, uh, just last night it was like he uh, prayed to the starry hosts, did not find a favor in the eyes of the Lord. And when I was reading that, um, I smiled because I think that a lot of people think paying attention to our bodies, paying attention to the moon, paying attention to the sun, paying attention to the universe, is anti-God. But what, first of all, who made all that?

Speaker 1: 1:31:37

That's always my thought too, that it's all God, it's all created.

Speaker 2: 1:31:41

And he made it so powerful. Like we're literally talking about how the moon is impacting our moods and like you can brush that off all you want to, but like you're just missing out is the truth. It's just the truth. And also like God made it to where it controls the water. If you can sit and watch the water change based on the moon cycles, how in the wild west are you going to tell me it's not impacting human energy?

Speaker 1: 1:32:03

Oh my gosh Amen, Like what are you doing? You're just, you're just missing out on some stuff.

Speaker 2: 1:32:08

So when I think about it, I'm like what we don't do as a Christ follower is put it in front of God. We still remember God created it. Stars didn't create God. God created the stars. And so I can't put the stars or the moon or tapping, or my own self or self-discovery above what God has done and continues to do in my life. But I can use them all as tools, as this vessel on earth. And when we really get into scripture. And this came to life for me when I was traveling in Israel, because I walked through the valley of the shadow of death. That's where Jesus traveled on foot. And when I walked through that valley, the awareness of water flow, the awareness of weather patterns, the awareness of the stars, the moon, the sun without that you die.

Speaker 1: 1:33:01

Like you, just die. Yeah, it's um, it's desolate out there.

Speaker 2: 1:33:03

That's why it's called the valley of the shadow of desolate out there, that's why it's called the valley of the shadow of death Like, and that's why it's like thy rod and thy staff, comfort me, because you're not getting comfort on worldly pleasures out there in the middle of this freaking barren desert that likely has no water flowing to it, and so, watching all of that, it's like I realized afresh how in tune, how less distracted those individuals were at that time. And, by the way, it's still in Israel. It's still much more barren than it is in the United States. There's still all of those areas. You know there's camps set up and different things now.

Speaker 2: 1:33:42

But it's like to ignore that, to ignore the magic that God created and I don't mean magic Like. I'm not saying mystical type things right there. I'm saying like the literal miracle of how the freaking planet right now is rotating and if it didn't rotate at that exact inflection we'd fall off Like there's just so many things in our levels of oxygen and how we would literally suffocate and die if there was a small molecular changes Like. If we forget those things, then we're missing the essence of God and the greatness of God and we're not separate from nature.

Speaker 2: 1:34:25

No, oh my gosh God made all that. Yeah, it's all like it nature. No, oh, my gosh God made all that.

Speaker 1: 1:34:27

Yeah, it's all created together. It's not like we're over here and the moon is over there.

Speaker 2: 1:34:34

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:34:34

And also I mean we're all nature.

Speaker 2: 1:34:37

Yes, like if we feel separate than nature. That's not of God. That's because we've distracted ourselves with a bunch of material things comfort, ease, convenience that's not of god. So if you want to say that, um, getting in touch with my central nervous system is not in alignment, I would argue with you sitting your ass on your phone all the day and drinking alcohol and taking a bunch of pills is also out of alignment. So, like, just be careful, christian, right on where you judge.

Speaker 1: 1:35:12

Yeah, yeah, my, my husband and I have talked about this so many times because I think so many of us have wounding around seeing somebody who is the quote devout Christian but goes home and beats their wife and judges someone like me for just trying to help people feel better.

Speaker 2: 1:35:25

Yeah, exploring your body and helping them explore their mind body connection. Yeah, can you help me understand? Um you didn't know I was about to give a sermon, Did you? No, but I actually I loved it, I loved it.

Speaker 1: 1:35:36

You know, I love it and I know that I've shared with you before that I have a very strong connection to Jesus and there's there's aspects of the Christian faith that feel so, so divine and true to me, and I also feel like I can discern some of the things that feel like they weren't original.

Speaker 2: 1:35:52

Yeah, Eastern versus Western is the way I look at that.

Speaker 1: 1:35:55

Yeah, but I am constantly curious about clients that I see. I'm curious about clients that I see. I've had many, many Christian clients sit in my chairs, with varying levels of comfort with talking about energy or with using the cards and things like that. What is it about energy that is scary to people, do you know?

Speaker 2: 1:36:24

So if there is a being that we're going to have faith in, it's God. So I think when we start to recognize other beings, that starts to feel like we're playing in God's space, Again, ironic because of the Holy Spirit, like we, I worship a triune God, which means father, son, Holy Spirit. So the Holy Spirit, like that's a being in and around us. And then also the Bible is really clear of demonic presence and angelic presence brought up so many times.

Speaker 2: 1:36:57

So, um, but that is like uncomfortable and I think a lot of times if we're looking at what our capacity for the human mind to believe that we can't see, I think a lot of people are just like I can't, I can't do all of it, it just doesn't make sense, it's too hard, and I usually say to people like it's never going to make sense, this side of heaven, and also you can write down all those questions if you want to, that you think are a really big deal, but once, like, heaven comes to earth and becomes revealed to us other than it being something that we can't necessarily see but we can sense, now when that happens, we're not going to be concerned about this kind of stuff. It's going to be healed. Like. A lot of these questions come from our lack of belief, and so I think it's just too abstract. Because even you know, being raised in the Southern Baptist church, we talked a lot about what we called fire and brimstone, what's keeping, what's getting you to heaven, what's keeping you out of hell, and that's like our main focus. But we didn't talk a lot about like love and grace. But then you've got other churches that all focus on love and grace, but like the lack of accountability. So then we're missing like the truth and love. And so, depending on what denomination you were raised in, there's just a lot of these denominations. It's kind of like shopping, you know, we all have our favorite brands, so we pick.

Speaker 2: 1:38:16

I'm a, I'm a Catholic, I'm a you know, a non-denominational. I'm a Baptist, I'm a, personally, a Presbyterian. But, like, you pick your denomination because it fits. Like you pick your denomination because it fits, not because you want to be taking it easy. You still want to, like, get into the Bible, meditate on God's word and have your direct relationship with the father yourself and not just listen to a priest who's like, interpreting is essentially what they're doing. I'm not knocking it, but not all of them have been to the level of education that I would respect or want, and so, um, I just think it's really complex and things that are scary for people it's just easier to be like. That's a no for me, and I would say, the more I've explored it.

Speaker 2: 1:38:56

I was talking to a friend, um, not long ago, we that we always go, he and I always go deep, and I was like, so what would you think about if I said that, like other cultures, not America, what if that is God that they're worshiping, but they've just twisted it arguably, like we have in our society, to make it fit their society? But what if it's still God? They're just not worshiping God very good, or you know, like, or to their best of their knowledge, but they're like beheading people, but like that's what they think the Torah was telling them, and they're following the old Testament but not the new. And he was like here's what I would say about that.

Speaker 2: 1:39:42

I don't think what you're saying is untrue, but I think as long as it starts to separate you from God or distract you from the strength in your faith, you have to walk away from it. If it puts you in a danger zone, not everyone can go down that path and people have to know where that's at. And so I say if the stars and the moon distract you, then don't. If astrology starts to feel like witchcraft, don don't. Don't do anything that's going to make you feel disconnected from your maker. I I definitely. There have been a few times where I've been reading and my mind has been like whoa I?

Speaker 1: 1:40:16

we could have a whole nother podcast about the witchcraft part of it too, though, because it's just most of the quote witches were just using herbs to heal they're like naturalists, they were, were healers, they were healers and, as far as I can tell, jesus was an incredible healer.

Speaker 2: 1:40:30

Doing stuff that blew people's mind, that felt dangerous that felt like he was claiming to be something that he wasn't, but it turned out he was the son of. God. So, yeah, who's to say who's been ordained by the Lord to heal others?

Speaker 1: 1:40:41

Right, like who? Yeah, so we could have a whole nother discussion on on that. But I guess what I want to say is I, you know, I don't like to scare people and it's part of I had this realization a few years ago where I realized that, um, I needed to be more forthcoming, like publicly, with the fact that I do read cards and I do energy work, and I'm fully comfortable saying that because it can't be my responsibility, like I don't want to scare anybody. I don't want somebody to work with me and then find out later like oh my gosh, she's using cards and so that's demonic or whatever their belief system is, and then break trust. So I realized like I need to just be all of me out publicly because, hey, that just feels better, like I have nothing to hide.

Speaker 1: 1:41:29

But if I'm really honest, I still it still hurts. You know, like every once in a while people not so much lately, but you know you'll get comments on videos or posts or whatever. And you know, when Brittany and Chantel and I were doing the energy enlightenment tour, we had some, we had some not so nice comments from righteous Christians. I would say you know. So if I'm honest, it still hurts it every time. I use it as the chaos to help me be stronger. Um, I don't waste that chaos, you know so, but it's just something I like to.

Speaker 2: 1:42:03

I am constantly trying to understand also the beautiful thing about it is, though, our faith journey is so individual and no one can see the intentions of your heart.

Speaker 2: 1:42:15

And I say that and it's still easy for me to accidentally judge other people you know like let my childhood, or let my, my interpretation of the scripture even today creep in, or for me to even think to me it all boils down to this, at the end of the day, how ironic that the scripture says that his ways are bigger than my ways and his thoughts are bigger than my thoughts. I like that when that means that there's a dream out there that God has for me something big I can't even fathom. It's so big I can't even dream of it. I like it when it's that right. But when it's like something that, let's say, I read a scripture and I'm like, yeah, I'm freaking, dying on this hell with you right now, because I know this is what the Lord's saying, I know that this is a sin, this is blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2: 1:43:04

I don't like the his ways are bigger than my ways. I don't like ultimately trusting in the unknown that is the Lord, because that doesn't fit my interpretation or my narrative, and I think we just need to constantly challenge ourselves with that. Like, if this feels uncomfortable one, I'm not your personal Holy Spirit, so it's not up to me to you know. Like, whatever you're choosing to do, I can't, I can't know. Like I'm not your personal Holy Spirit, so it's not up to me, to you know, like, whatever you're choosing to do, I can't, I can't know, like I'm not your savior. But two, how can I possibly think that I know that the Lord has or has not given you some kind of gift?

Speaker 2: 1:43:39

Yeah, that's dangerous, because that means that then I'm going to limit myself to what the Lord can give to me.

Speaker 1: 1:43:45

Exactly. Yeah, that comes back to my favorite quote that I know we've talked about, and that is that people can only meet themselves as deeply, people can only meet you as deeply as they meet themselves. It just comes back over and over again. Yeah, I was listening to Emily Fletcher the other day. Are you familiar with her?

Speaker 2: 1:44:05

She does meditation Just because of you.

Speaker 1: 1:44:06

Oh yeah, and she said I always say God is a disco ball and we're all looking at the disco ball and we all have our own, you know, our own things, that we're our perceptions, that we're looking through, but that God is just God, it's a disco ball.

Speaker 1: 1:44:22

We're all looking at it from different angles and I love that visual and I do believe that's true Because I find that in a lot of the Eastern religions and cultures I find a lot of overlap as far as like how we can live a really great life and love one another, and I do think there's just one God and just a lot of interpretations about how you connect with it and experience that.

Speaker 2: 1:44:49

One of Terry's best friends is from India. He was in our wedding and there was one day we were driving down the road and I was more immature in my faith, and I say that I had been studying the Christian religion for 30 years at that point and was a very strong Christian. That's never changed for me. I've never wavered in that area. But we're driving down the road and we're talking about Christian faith and I felt, because I loved him, that it was my responsibility to share the gospel with him. And I'm not saying that's wrong, like that's a, that's a healthy conviction. Um, the Bible, you know, says that we are sent out among the nations, and so I wanted to talk to him about did he believe in Jesus? This is just what I asked him. We were driving back from lunch, we worked together.

Speaker 2: 1:45:29

He's an industrial engineer, highly intelligent individual, and I knew that he, um, you know, followed Buddha, and so I was like do you believe in Jesus? And he was like absolutely, like historically, a hundred percent. And I was like do you think that you won't go to heaven? I'm like do you understand that my faith says that you won't go to heaven unless you receive Jesus as the one way to get to the Father. And he said well, carrie, do you know that Americans are the only people who really feel that way? And he's like this is just my hot take, but I've done a lot of traveling, I've been to a lot of other countries.

Speaker 2: 1:46:06

And he said Americans are the only one who view it that way. Wow. He said I don't limit you in my religion, but you limit me in yours. And he said I don't know if you're right or I'm right or what's wrong. But he said you know, I believe that we are worshiping the same God. I believe that we are worshiping the same God. It's just in India. What I learned in my country is here's the way this manifests. And he's like it's the same reason that we're okay with cows walking through our house. We view it in a different way. You guys view that as gross or whatever, but you let dogs. He's like it's just your interpretation versus mine that he said I am different in that I feel like I live out that love, whereas to me American Christians are missing out on the receptivity of other people and the true love and I was like that is profound at the time, and I was probably.

Speaker 2: 1:47:03

I was probably 28 or 29 at the time and I was probably. I was probably 28 or 29 at the time. I was just like. My first thought, kelly was I'm so sad that I won't see him in heaven because he is a precious soul. It was my first thought and you know, I don't know, and it's not up to me, like I don't know what God's plan is for that. Here's what I do know is that I don't know. That's all that I know. At the end of the day, for me to have that thought initially, I think is some religious conditioning and I know people are going to that really would offend some folks, and I don't mean it in a bad way. I just mean, based off what I'd learned, that's what came up. But do I think that's really what God planted in my heart or really what the Bible is saying? Tbd. All I can know is like I have my faith in Jesus. I believe Jesus is the son of God, but I can't judge somebody else's faith.

Speaker 1: 1:47:59

Yeah, powerful, yeah, powerful stuff. God is a disco ball.

Speaker 2: 1:48:05

I really like that. I do too, and I just get like this beautiful image that comes to mind and, yeah, I think we'd all love each other a whole lot more if we didn't have to be right all the damn time.

Speaker 1: 1:48:17

Oh yeah, so true, so true. This has been really fun.

Speaker 2: 1:48:23

I think we could keep going for another three hours if we let ourselves, this might be a couple of episodes. Yeah, I think I'm going to have to break it up.

Speaker 1: 1:48:29

It's a long one, but it's been really, really, really great. We didn't even talk about your book. Maybe just share really quickly. You have a book coming out really soon, in a few months.

Speaker 2: 1:48:38

I've sent it off to the producer, which is huge, the whole process. I could do and I need to do I did a little bit of an episode on on this recently but I need to dig deeper. Um, yeah, it's coming out. It's a three part series. I won't call it a trilogy, cause that sounds really stimulating.

Speaker 2: 1:48:53

Um, and really this is a book for companies that want to DIY their HR um or HR pros who are maybe newer in their career and they want to dig deeper or have some uh, you know, like a little bit of security blanket to lean on. That's really what the book is for. So the first one is really foundational concepts hiring, firing, hr law, onboarding the tactics that you really need when you're a baby business, a new business. And then my next two books, which I've already written I just have to go through the editing and publishing process for them. We'll go deeper into um strategies. So we'll get more into training, development, employee gauge, engagement, culture, learning and things like that.

Speaker 2: 1:49:32

So, um, they'll. There'll be more advanced strategies Every company needs all of them but I wanted to write that first book for, like, if you get nothing else, get this one Um, and then we'll build on that and hopefully folks will see what a great roadmap it is. I'm calling it pressing the HR easy button. Hopefully they feel like that did help them in some way and then they'll want to keep going down the path with me.

Speaker 1: 1:49:53

Yeah, I love that. I know that you've put in so many hours and so much hard work and it's almost right there, so, really, really celebrating with you the fact that you were what you said. The statistic is only six out of a thousand books get published. Is that true? Yeah, man, I don't want to be one of those that doesn't get out there, because I feel really stuck right now with my book. But I saw that statistic and I was like wow, I'm not the only one that gets stuck, yeah it's freaking us.

Speaker 1: 1:50:19

It's a long process, it's a big job, but I'm really, really happy for you, proud of you celebrating with you it. Happy for you, proud of you, celebrating with you it's so exciting. So thank you so much. This has been really, really enlightening. I've learned a lot. We've had some deep conversations.

Speaker 2: 1:50:32

I mean, when I was like, talk to me like a five-year-old with your business, I was like no, really like talk to me like you know, let's really break this down, cause I want to understand, but and I appreciate you saying that too, because I live and breathe it, so it's I don't naturally lean in toward the simplicity of it, I live in like the strategic side of it and so, um, I love when somebody is like okay, bring it you know, bring it down, cause. I that's. My goal is to make it more consumable.

Speaker 1: 1:50:56

Yeah, it's perfect so good. Thank you so much. Yeah, all right, awesome so good.