Words That Win, Simple Copywriting Principles with Samantha Burmeister

Join us for a candid conversation with Samantha, founder of Nomad Copy Agency. Learn her unique approach to "edu selling," discover when it's time to hire a copywriter and gain valuable insights on managing a business while dealing with chronic illness. Samantha also offers a bonus tip through her free opt-in audit service, aimed at increasing your subscriber rate. With the right strategies, you too can turn your passion into a thriving business.

💡 What You'll Learn:

1. Master Edu Selling: How to educate prospects and make the ask.
2. When to Hire a Copywriter: Recognize the signs it's time to outsource.
3. Balancing Business and Chronic Illness: Keep your business running when health takes a backseat.

Transcript

Nikita: 0:20

One, two, three. I am so excited to have Samantha on the show. She is a fellow friend of, like another networking group that I've connected with. I'm so like love all the women I've got to meet over this last year especially. So please tell us who you are, what you do, where you're from.

Samantha: 0:42

Hey, nikita. I'm Samantha. I am the copywriter and the founder of Nomad Copy Agency. I'm originally from Iowa, but it's called Nomad Copy Agency for a reason, and that I am everywhere all of the time. I am currently recording this in Northern California.

Nikita: 1:01

Yeah, she's not kidding. I think like a couple of weeks ago you were like in Italy or Australia or Alaska, I don't know. All of the above are true and all in the last several weeks, yeah, and it's like I think it's really cool, like did the business start with being a Nomad? Like how did this business start?

Samantha: 1:23

Yeah, great question. So I've known ever since I was in college that I wanted to be location independent. That was really important to me and I did work in a corporate sales role for about a decade in various roles and then, once I felt like I was financially and emotionally and all of the other things ready to go out on my own, I did quit my job while I was on a beach in Vietnam. I was on vacation and it's not as unhinged as it sounds. It was a long time coming, but there was a final straw and I was like I just really, as something clicked in my brain, I was like a week from right now I will be back in my office, and I couldn't have been further from that in any way and I was like I cannot go back. I was like I should not be sitting here feeling anxious Like I have the Sunday scare. He's a week in advance, absolutely not.

Samantha: 2:17

And I was had been preparing to go out on my own for a long time, and so I did. And then when I started copywriting and it came time to you know like name my LLC and all of that, I never wanted it to be a surprise to anyone that I worked with that. Like I'm not in your neighborhood I might not even be in your time zone or your country, but what's important here is that I can translate what I do for your clients in a really great way and that my life experience has, like, helped me understand the way that other people think and all of that. So it was by no accident that I called myself Nomad Copy Agency, and that's kind of how the two of them like my life and my work run together in that way.

Nikita: 3:01

Yeah, and you know that is probably the, I think, when we've talked before, like before the show and other time phrase that we've talked, and I've always thought, I've always loved that about you being like. Having those experiences from traveling and being all over the world and seeing things from a different perspective, or hearing things in a different perspective, is like gold for a copy writer, right Like it's like perfect for that. How have you found your rhythm with having an agency and like it's an agency now, but has it always been that way? It?

Samantha: 3:40

has not always been an agency. So often, as business owners, we're faced with the decision do we expand our revenue once we hit a certain point by expanding our pricing and taking on fewer clients, or do we take on the same number of clients and expand how we're able to serve? And what does that scalability look like? Does it look like courses or does it look like additional individuals? And for me that looked like a junior copywriter.

Samantha: 4:06

But no, it has not always been that way, but it has always been like very intentionally designed so that I would be able to free up my time, because I mean, if I'm in Asia, I don't want to be up at all hours of the night talking to clients. I can't always stick to a US time zone and my hack there is that I only take meetings from seven to 10 California time, so it means I'm up early when I'm here, but when I'm in Europe I can still. Or when I'm in Africa because I spent several months in South Africa earlier this year I can be on. I can still like meet friends for dinner when I'm in those time zones and not have to like really mess with my schedule too much.

Nikita: 4:50

Yeah, how does this work with your whole like flow of like being you, like you know, outside of business? How does this like hit your really good places as like your strengths, and then also how does it challenge some of your not so great strengths?

Samantha: 5:11

So, this might be like a total red flag to some people, but like I am not a details person, like I surround myself with details. People, though, and what's really interesting in that is I think that some people think that I need all of. I need all of the details so that I can communicate all of the details to their ideal clients, but when it comes to my writing, I actually take the details and turn them into a transformational idea, so I actually don't have to deal too much in the details. That's for my clients or their OBMs or, you know, va's, whoever I'm communicating with. So, from a copy perspective, it's not.

Samantha: 5:54

I get to like leverage that strength and that weakness all in the same time. From a travel perspective, it's like I'm an enneagram seven. I'm, you know, a manifesting generator, all of those things. So like I gain my energy. Even as a self proclaimed introvert, I gain my energy from the ideas of people around me. So when I get to, as a creative, go out into the world and be inspired by other people all the time, it translates so well into my work, because, as creatives, we can't just have our creative brains turned on all the time. It's really hard, and so I get to like leverage my lifestyle in my work and like let let my strengths really shine in that way.

Nikita: 6:38

Yeah, I love that you said that, because I love that word leverage. I think sometimes we hear leverage from a context of like I don't know, I can't think of where I've heard it. In a way that's like huh, like I kind of had a weird feeling about it.

Samantha: 6:50

Yeah, it feels transactional.

Nikita: 6:52

Yeah, yeah, like it totally feels that way, but it's like I feel like it's just a way for you to like grow in a way that doesn't inhibit you from exploring things that are uncomfortable but still being comfortable, like it's a little safe place but also enough uncomfortableness that you're like I'm still growing in this place, if that makes it.

Samantha: 7:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah it does, and I mean there's just so much to draw from out there and as a copywriter, I need to the time to like sit down and be alone and sit in a room and focus and write, but we can't all do that all of the time and there has to be that balance. So it's like, oh, you think that because I'm taking this call from Rome, that it's like so cool and exotic. It's like, no, I am out in the suburbs because I couldn't be trusted in the city to focus. You know it is, it's wonderful and it's exotic and it's fun and it's all of the things. But sometimes I do have to get. I have to have the like we have ice cream at home conversation with myself sometimes.

Nikita: 8:01

I got you, I got you, I got you. So tell me about, like, the mindset around. I don't know. I just find like being all like in different places, often like what is some of the challenges, as far as mindset, when it comes to growing your business and the agency as it grows, that you've had to like overcome in order to get to where you are right now?

Samantha: 8:29

That's a great question. I feel like the first thing is that it's really easy to fall into whatever is new and exciting in the new, exciting place that I am, and the way that I combat that is creating routines that I can replicate anywhere. So couple of examples every morning I wake up and drink eight ounces of water. It's not that hard to do, but it's like I do not drink my coffee until I've had some water. I keep a water by my bed and it's like I don't have a full blown you know Korean skincare morning routine, no matter where I am.

Samantha: 9:07

But having that one thing that I come back to every morning of, like I have this. I also travel with a memory foam pillow and a yoga mat. I'm not a carry on only girl, but it's like I sleep figuratively in the same place every night. My head lays down in the same place every night, whether I'm going home to visit my family or if I'm spending two months in South Africa. I've got it. And then I have my yoga mat to ground myself and not give myself excuses not to move my body Some days too.

Nikita: 9:41

Yeah, I think that's such a really good idea and I can practice something that kind of follows you no matter where you are, that kind of centers you into being like because I can imagine just the time zone difference of things could like really mess you up.

Samantha: 9:56

Yeah, yeah, I think some days it's just totally out of my control, like there is no way to travel intercontinentally without messing up your sleep schedule. Like that just happens. I'm not carrying on my huge pillow, but for the vast majority of it it's like I try to travel on weekends so that I can still keep a like Monday through Thursday, monday through Friday type of schedule. It's just. I mean, your question was like the lessons and the mindset that I've had to keep, but so much of that is just routine is rooted in routine.

Nikita: 10:35

Yeah. So I'm going to go back to the mindset question, because I feel like you told us the lessons, but what has been the mindset like? What is the mindset that can get in the way of the routine, because routine is great. I think a lot of us feel like, yeah, once I get there, but usually it's the mindset piece like I need to get there and it's holding us back. So what does that look like for you?

Samantha: 11:03

For me the last couple of years, what it's really been rooted in is values and understanding what my values are and being able to articulate them, because for me, if it's not a heck yes, it's a heck no, and if something feels overwhelming or other, it gives me that like core thing to fall back on and be like. Do I want to do this, yes or no? And then why? My values include curiosity and freedom, which are huge when traveling abroad, because so often there's a lot of ups and downs with tourism, I'll leave that there and I mean, so often we go places and it's almost like you look at other people and you decide if you are superior or inferior to them and to their routines and their traditions, and it's like, well, if we come at this with an air of curiosity and I'm here to learn and to continue to grow as a person and that is a core value of mine then that really helps my mindset and not.

Samantha: 12:09

You know, I mean I lived in Mexico for eight or nine months between 2020 and 2021 and like something that's vastly different than traditional. What's traditional in the US is like there is so little regard for your ears at any hour of the day, it's like they got off work at 9 30 and wanted to start a party in the streets. It's going to last until 4 am, like I uh, they're unapologetically loud as and like it's just counter traditional to what I'm used to urban.

Samantha: 12:41

American, but like, if I have to come at that from a, like I chose to be here and I'm curious about it and I'm here to learn and I'm here to adapt, and that helps my mindset so much and not getting frustrated or like homesick or you know, just over it.

Nikita: 13:02

you know, when I'm places that might not fit into my ideal, yeah, that is such a good point because I feel like curiosity is like one of those tools in there to belt as as business owners that we have. That I don't think we oftenly tap fully into. Like you know, we see someone doing it and it's like, oh, let me do it, just like them. But like, where is the curiosity of like how can I do it differently without reinventing the wheel? Like you know, those kind of things I think that's a piece of it, um. So, yeah, I think that's that's a really good I love the values piece because I definitely think we that's usually where I always go back to is it? Is it connected to that there? Why am I doing this thing? I'm doing, um, why am I experiencing this, or should I be experiencing this? Because of of those feelings.

Samantha: 13:55

Yeah, yeah, and sometimes you just need to like have a glass of water and take a walk. You know, I think that's like true with any any sort of mindset issue. If you find yourself falling down a rabbit hole is it's like maybe we don't need to fix this right now. Maybe the best way to deal with it is to not write right now.

Nikita: 14:16

Yeah, yeah, feel the feeling. So, like you know, take a break. Yeah, I think a lot. I was just talking to a client yesterday and I was like half of the call. I was telling him like you're human, though, like stop being yourself up for being human, like the whole idea that mindset is just never going to be an issue and you're never not going to be uncomfortable in Mexico while people are. You know, dancing in the street at 4am is like kind of ludicrous, like if you think about it. So like give yourself permission to be like I am human. There's this thing and I'm trying to work it out and that's okay.

Samantha: 14:50

Yeah, yeah.

Nikita: 14:52

I agree. So one of the things that I like really love talking to you about was copy and sales. You have a huge experience in both of the world, obviously, and when it comes to sales, which is like the icky word nobody likes to say in a room and I feel that way too is oftentimes why I say like service or offering or whatever, because it is like we have such a weird emotional and physical reaction to the word sales. How have you helped grow your business with a good relationship with sales?

Samantha: 15:37

Oh, that's a good one. I had a career in sales, so for me because I was business to business sales and my first job in sales was very transactional, it was items that typically cost between 50 and $50 and $3,000, which I know is a huge range, but when selling to companies that's a drop in the bucket. So for me it was just kind of a game of like I got to have fun with it.

Samantha: 16:04

I got to learn things. I got to try on different words and as entrepreneurs that's a lot harder, but it's not impossible. Like, try something new. Have a fake sales conversation with someone who would be in your ideal audience and tell them that it's market research and it is market research, but we get to have so much fun with it.

Samantha: 16:29

I think, when we think about it with our strengths like again, I'm in a creative industry as a copywriter, but like even when I was in my corporate role, I remember thinking, oh my gosh, they just taught us all these methodologies and it feels so sterile about how we're supposed to talk to these people. And because I was selling into the C suite of companies that were about $500 million in revenue. So like I don't know, I'm probably not allowed to name them, but you've heard of them and they're the ones where you would like do the cheek swab and like get your.

Samantha: 16:59

DNA, like those companies were potentially some of my clients maybe.

Nikita: 17:09

That was a real incontinento. Yeah, we don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, no, absolutely not.

Samantha: 17:13

But I was talking to their CEOs, cios, and it's like we were taught these methodologies and it was, like I said, very sterile and it's like it wasn't until I realized that, like, these people could be my next door neighbor, these people could be my uncle, like, talk to people like they're human and lean into what's valuable to you and for me.

Samantha: 17:35

That was my creativity and I felt like I had to come into work and be one person and go home and be another person and as I started to see sales as a relationship and something that I got to bring myself to they don't need to know that I had a tummy ache this morning, but they do get to see, like, the way that I talk and who I am and I get and ask them about if they had a good weekend and what their vacation was like and what conferences they're attending this year. And, again, applying that natural curiosity but also getting creative was so much fun and I think when I started to see it that way, it became way more fun. And also, like I have this word, I call it edgy selling.

Samantha: 18:24

I haven't Googled it before, but I feel like I feel like it should be a word and it's like, oh, so much of sales is just educating, telling people you know. You don't have to wait until the bottom of a thousand word email that basically just says I'm nervous to get to the point, I'm getting nervous to get to the point, I'm nervous to get to the point. You don't have to wait to the bottom of that email to say, hey, by the way, this is what I do and how I do what I do. This is how I help people. This is how you know social proof. This is how I helped Nikita do X, y and Z.

Samantha: 18:55

Just educate people on what you do and how you do it, and then you know you can ask for the sale. But so often when you're educating people they will ask you how you consult them.

Nikita: 19:11

Yeah, that is so true. That is so true. Like there have been times where you're like in your head thinking, oh, you're providing all the value and you forget that piece of like people want to know. So they're going to ask you the question Like so what does that like? How can I work? What does it even look like?

Nikita: 19:32

And I think one of the things that I've really pulled from you and I have, you know, a coach that I work with it's like don't be afraid to tell people how to work with you. Like to me it's like it's the. I just go back to like in the olden days quote, quote like olden days when we were watching TV and we would actually sit through commercials. Like we didn't have to question, like how to get to McDonald's and how much their happy meal was. Like we didn't have to think about, like when I go to Best Buy, like what am I buying? How much is it? I didn't have to guess that. I knew what it was when I watched commercial like this is what it is. And it's like we're so afraid to be like why am I a business and I offer a service, but I am also selling that service.

Samantha: 20:19

Yeah, yeah, I mean, and it's so helpful with, like, pre-qualifying people too of like you don't want to surprise them with your pricing. So many people are really hesitant to put their price of their program when I'm writing their sales pages and it's like but do you also want people to waste your time on sales calls? And then be like, oh, holy cow, this costs $5,000. Like, don't waste your own time.

Nikita: 20:49

Yeah, I have been on them. I have said this I will die on this hill. I will die on this hill. I'm like I will die on this hill, like this whole idea that, especially for my creative service-based entrepreneurs specifically, just like you said, like what is valuable to you, right? Like, is it your time? Is it like your energy? Like how much emotional energy goes in? Well, this person that's on a call with me doesn't know how much my services are. I'm going to talk about all these things before they actually know what the cost of my services and then be surprised that they're like, well, it's not in my budget.

Nikita: 21:26

Huh, like, I mean, it's a different market, like you were saying. Like I think, when we are marketing certain things, do you think it depends on what it is you're marketing? So, for example, why I say this is like you're going to know how much. Like you know Apple costs, but you're not going to see commercials. You're going to see commercials for Apple, but we don't see that many commercials for Tesla. Like they don't put a lot of advertising money because you just know you're going to be paying the money. Like you just know you're not worried about a budget versus Apple. It's like in that higher tier, but you still want to know if you can afford it. Mm-hmm, is that something that you have found like in the nuances of working with your people when it comes to copy, like being more open to what kind of value? Are you communicating with who you're working with?

Samantha: 22:24

Yeah, I really like that you use the example of Tesla, because when you look at just about any high-end brand or any exclusive brand, you will be able to easily find out how much it costs. That said, especially in the creative space, the service-based space, our pricing is gonna be contingent, but you should at least be able to communicate a range. I tell people very blatantly the project minimum to work with me is $1,500. That said, I've worked on $20,000 projects before, so it depends is really a heck of an answer. But also, if you are a business who is doing a multi-step launch that leads into multiple products and et cetera, et cetera, you're probably at a stage in business where that won't surprise you as much.

Samantha: 23:22

But I always encourage people because I have to understand people's processes when I write their emails and their sales pages and stuff. I don't create the process, but I have to understand it. And it's like I think it's so silly to not say in your pre-consult application whatever you call that before somebody gets on a sales call with you, to have a button that they click and say just so you know, the typical project costs between $1,503,000,. Are you prepared to invest this in your success? And it's like the people wanna know. Just tell them. Just tell them what it costs, and it shouldn't be hard. That doesn't mean that you know the hero image on your website needs to say it either, but look at the high-end people in your industry and you'll see it. You'll see their pricing.

Nikita: 24:22

Yeah, and you know I feel like it's we are afraid of the awkward conversation, but I always think that thought actually leads to the actions of awkward conversation.

Samantha: 24:32

Of the awkward conversation.

Nikita: 24:33

Like every time, it's like well, that's what happens. It's like self, self, what's the word? Self-fulfilling prophecy? It's going to be awkward.

Samantha: 24:46

Yeah, so it's awkward because you make it awkward.

Nikita: 24:49

Yeah, exactly, exactly. So when it comes to, like, someone who is getting ready to outsource copywriting for whatever business that they have, when do they know that that is something that they're ready for?

Samantha: 25:05

Yeah, and again, this is a good, it depends answer, but I'll give a few scenarios. If their primary audience does not speak the same primary language as they do, or if they're not fluent in that, large grammatical mistakes can be a huge red flag to people, and I think that's something to keep in mind that if you are either an incredibly poor writer or you're not super confident in the language that you're going to be delivering in, you might need a copywriter sooner than other people.

Samantha: 25:38

And that might end up being a copy editor instead of a copywriter, if you want to write it and pass it off to someone who can do editing. I just think that that is worth noting. And a specific example is I've worked with a lot of Dutch people in Germans. They're super good at English, but the nuances of their writing almost come off like AI wrote it and people see that and they notice it. So it's like I am very impressed because those people know twice as many words as I do. That is impressive, but I think it's worth noting that that's an example.

Samantha: 26:14

Second example getting ready to work with a copywriter.

Samantha: 26:17

If you have launched ones before, you know that your product or your service is good and that your ideal audience, that you know who your ideal audience is not just you've written it down, but that you have sold this thing to that archetype before, then you're ready to hire a copywriter.

Samantha: 26:35

Because if you're still experimenting, the copywriter will not have enough information on who your ideal audience is, how they react. They will not have testimonials to pull from to see the way that they talk about you and what they found valuable in your service. So I think that is when people need to hire their first copywriter is when they know what they're offering and they know who they're offering it to and they've proven it. If you've not yet proven it, do it yourself. Use a template, do what you wanna do, because once you've gone past that point of using a copywriter for the first time and you've proven your product, and then it's starting to scale and you're able to create a copywriter and the scale and you're able to create new products in your business, then it becomes just like a I have the revenue and I no longer wanna waste time writing okay, copy, so of course I'm gonna hire a copywriter for every project you're on out.

Nikita: 27:33

Yeah, I have so many mixed feelings about hiring copywriters, like it's definitely, I definitely agree with you, it depends, I definitely agree with. Like where you are going with your business has a big it has a big factor. And like what you're going to do when it comes to outsourcing copywriting. I have made the mistake 100% of hiring a copywriter way too soon and that's not a cheap mistake. Y'all Like that's not cheap, okay, it's not cheap. And it's like, oh man, I've only known I just now, it's not the time. So, like, I love that you broke down. Like here are some places to think about before you actually hire. Or you think you're ready to hire, yeah, yeah.

Samantha: 28:25

And like I mean copywriting is like tapping into your own abundance in your business. It is this opportunity for you to free up, because I mean, what I can do in a day other people would agonize over for three weeks and then do it over the course of multiple days and then still not feel confident in it, you know. So it is just this like if you can just hand this off and not have it be a problem, the only thing you have to be able to do in advance is communicate what the value of that service is and to whom.

Nikita: 28:58

Love that. I love that point. That's such a good one. I have to make sure we quote that somewhere. So let's talk a little personal stuff for a quick for a moment. So obviously you know who I serve. I serve women who are living with chronic illness and chronic pain and all those different variations, whether that's physically, emotionally or mentally. Have you experienced or supported someone living with chronic illness, or you yourself dealing with different challenges that has either affected the way you run your business or changed the way you choose to run your business?

Samantha: 29:36

I have not knowingly worked with people who have chronic illness and I'm trying to think if that's like 100% true or not, but like, because people tend to be very open with me. But I mean, there's so many things that can stand in the way of us running our businesses, especially as solo printers, especially as people who are beginning to scale or are just really comfortable running it all ourselves with hired up help, and that, like you said, can be physical and mental illness. It can also be like I'm working with someone right now and she's in the middle of a launch and her kid broke their arm yesterday and they just been out and it's not the same thing and I'm not equating the two, but there's so much. It's like some days we can't do it, some days we don't feel like doing it, and what I think so many people's takeaways have been with working with me or working with a copywriter is and especially in tandem with like a tech VA who can implement systems is it's like you're not going to, you don't have to write the follow up email, because the follow up email after your call is written for you, and so much of that is like it takes a lot of effort up front when working with a copywriter or writing your own copy, but then it's like it pays dividends later on when you're having a flare up and you can't do it, or it pays dividends later on when you completely forgot to follow up and you didn't drop a client because of it or you didn't lose a lead because of it.

Samantha: 31:17

So I think that's probably my biggest takeaway in my own business as well as others, because I've written a zillion funnels and a zillion follow up emails and a zillion sales emails for other people. I just started doing that for myself this year and it's like wild to see that. Wild to see like my opt-ins and my email list and all of these other things just kind of start to flourish on their own now that they're in place, and that's really been a game changer for me and, I can only imagine, for the people who, like, yeah, don't have control of, don't have as much control of their schedules or their health as I do.

Nikita: 31:56

Yeah, I mean, I think I call those things life hurdles. Like everyone has life hurdles. Some of them are chronic life hurdles and some of them are for a period of a season. It's just like seasons for some, for some of us, and for some of us that's a lifelong challenge, and I have definitely the systems piece.

Nikita: 32:17

Living with chronic illness and to me this is where coffee comes in is like I almost feel like once you do it, it's so much easier to duplicate over and over again, versus feeling like you have to figure it out all of the time.

Nikita: 32:30

Right, and you're right, like I just recently, I just finished my. I've been working on this for years, my brain just, and I've had this is one of the things I've had a copywriter come in and write my welcome sequence and I hated it, and it was. It wasn't her fault, it was my fault, because I was like, because I didn't know how to communicate what it is that I was trying to communicate with, who I was trying to communicate it with, and I just recently, like, redid it myself and it's like, oh, I feel so much better and it's on automatic and it's like you don't have to do it again. But if you're at a point in your business where you don't have those things in place and yet you are still financially growing, then why not outsource that to someone who will take that for you and like, make it the thing that it needs to be?

Samantha: 33:17

Yeah, yeah, totally. And it's like you know this person that I just used as an example, who they've had to be out this week, but their copy is still going to get written, and like that outsourcing and like allowing other people to help you, even if it's like what you really need right now as a foot massage. I can't do that for you, but I can make your life easier in other ways and like just letting people be that for you. I think it's a huge hurdle that we face as women and as business owners. We so often think that we're alone in this and it's hard to find the right people sometimes, but when you do, it's just like. It's like that feeling when you're cutting wrapping paper and it just slides like Let it be good.

Nikita: 34:00

I know that I used to work at Buckle back in the day like way, way back in the day, and you said the package and like gift wrap and I, when you got that scissors in the chair, it's like I like that feeling. It's funny. So tell me, and everyone listening what are some things that they should be looking out for in order for their copy to convert. Yeah, when I say convert for anyone who's like convert, I mean like, like turned into, like an action, like yeah.

Samantha: 34:35

So, when you're looking for conversions Okay, two things brevity and pleasure points and you have your hill, I have my hill. These are my hills. Is that so often? And it's an important exercise? But a business coach or you tend to free training and it'll tell you to do like.

Samantha: 34:56

You need to know who your audience is. So you create your ideal audience and you create the avatar and you name them and you've got Allison and she's 35 and lives in Tampa and she enjoys long walks on the beach and whatever. If you're learning this exercise from someone good, they will take you to then tell me what their pain points are and it's like well, she has chronic illness and therefore you know she doesn't ride the normal like ups and downs that some people have. Sometimes it's completely out of her control. She can't see it coming. It really makes her feel type A, b and C and she you know this that the other.

Samantha: 35:37

If you have a great person leading you through this exercise, they will also tell you what is their ideal solution to these problems and that is so like that. Those are the pleasure points that you then need to hit on when writing your own copy and when you're talking about conversions, because it's one thing to show people that you understand that they like long walks in the beach and they don't like feeling tired all the time. It's another thing to tell them that your service or your product is going to help them get better rest at night so that they can show up more completely for their family. Those are the pleasure points that we need to hit on is not just what are they struggling with? And it doesn't end at the sale. When you say okay, when you buy this pillow or do my hypnotherapy service, that your life gets better. It's your life gets better so far in the future. And, by the way, the first step to getting there is working with me, so that's the first thing. I know that was a long way to get there Now.

Nikita: 36:41

I love that.

Samantha: 36:41

The hill that I will die on is. Don't just rest at your pain points. You've got to start thinking about your pleasure points and tying those two specifically what your? Deliverables are. Second thing is brevity, which I clearly didn't just give a good example.

Nikita: 36:55

And I'm the worst. So like, don't even like. I am the worst at brevity.

Samantha: 37:00

Yeah, I'm a storyteller at heart. Like I don't know, I was probably a preacher of some sort in a past life. Like I'm just. But brevity is no one opens their emails hoping for a blog post. Keep it short. Tell me what I need to do. Tell me what I need to do early. Tell me what I need to do often. That's it. You know. They do not need to hear about how your grandma's neighbor's dog influenced you when you were in second grade. Now you really like dogs, but also, like speaking of dogs, these dogs are hurting. Want to buy my insoles? Like, no, Like, how about you're 25% off by the insoles? Like, get in their inbox, get out of their inbox, Cause somebody's going to spend a max of about 30 seconds on your email.

Nikita: 37:49

Wow, wow, that is really interesting. I agree and disagree with you, samantha, and I'm just saying like I feel like I feel like the brevity piece is really important, especially if you're like telling people like to go do this thing or to buy this thing. I also feel like and I have seen this just from my own community of like how they've grown, like just watching their habits, of how, like actually my longer emails like they eat that stuff up, like they reply, they click on the links, and it's not even like links to necessarily a sale, it's just like two more information. But when I am selling, quote unquote, like here's the offer. Yeah, I totally agree, they have to be short, like they can't be like all of this stuff. It has to be like this is what it is, here's how you get there. I just feel like there is place for storytelling.

Samantha: 38:46

There is, there is, and I think you hit the nail on the head when you said but when I'm selling, it's got to be short, because confused buyers don't buy. And if you're taking them through a story like my, my nurture email this week was probably about a thousand words long and it touched on burnout and when I quit my previous job and why I do what I do now, and it's like that is super important. The nurture is super important and to connect with your people when selling, sometimes you've got to give them the facts.

Nikita: 39:16

Yeah, so true, so true. I'm yeah, so true. It's a whole another conversation. Well, this was awesome, like this was awesome. So what are ways that folks can find you and what is one piece of advice that you would want someone to take away from today?

Samantha: 39:36

I'll start with. The advice is to keep it simple. There's that acronym, kiss. Keep it super simple, like if you're looking at your copy and you're wondering if it will convert. Like write down the five W's and make sure that it tells them who, what, where, when, why, who is this for? What are they getting, when will they get it, how will it be delivered and why should they need it now?

Nikita: 40:01

The why is always?

Samantha: 40:02

about urgency, Not just why you should have it in general, but why you need it today. Where can people find me? Let's see If people are like Sam, I want to work with you yesterday. Let's have this conversation. The top of my website has a let's connect button and that's where you can tell me about your project and it'll send you a calendar link. That website is nomadcopyagencycom.

Nikita: 40:26

Also, my links always live in my Instagram bio and I'm on Instagram at nomadcopy and I'm on LinkedIn at Samantha Burmeister Sweet Any freebie, that you have an amazing freebie, like if anybody wants to see if their funnel stuff is going, which I need to do now, now that I've updated mine, you'd be like girl.

Samantha: 40:45

I want to do yours.

Nikita: 40:47

She's going to be telling me some stuff anyway, like what is your freebie Cause? It's a juicy.

Samantha: 40:52

So this is super meta, but I will audit your opt-in and to do that, I will opt-in to your opt-in and follow it for about a week and then at the end of the week I will return a loom video to you with advice on how you can increase your subscriberate from your actual opt-in page and then, from your emails, tell you how you can decrease your unsubscriberate and hopefully get some sales right out of the gate by editing your copy and it's 100% free and the link to that is also on my website or I will make sure that you have it so you can include it in the show notes.

Nikita: 41:28

Yes, that would be awesome. Thank you so much, Samantha. This was fun. Yeah, thank you.

Samantha: 41:33

This was great.