Brace yourself for an insightful adventure into the heart of 2020’s most defining moments - from COVID to the murder of George Floyd, women's rights, and the presidential campaign. Kamal’s eye-opening experiences and his book, "Black Astronaut", provide a raw glimpse into the struggles, triumphs, and the unseen stories of these pivotal events. His perspectives challenge the one-sided narratives often portrayed in the media, revealing the multi-faceted nature of these tumultuous times.
Podcast available on ALL listening platforms
Mind Over Matter linktr.ee/mindovermatterbabyyy
Watch Manhattan Neighborhood Network EVERY Saturday @ 12pm
Follow us on Instagram
@mindovermatterbabyyy
DEJA @deja.waja
Brace yourself for an insightful adventure into the heart of 2020’s most defining moments - from COVID to the murder of George Floyd, women's rights, and the presidential campaign. Kamal’s eye-opening experiences and his book, "Black Astronaut", provide a raw glimpse into the struggles, triumphs, and the unseen stories of these pivotal events. His perspectives challenge the one-sided narratives often portrayed in the media, revealing the multi-faceted nature of these tumultuous times.
Podcast available on ALL listening platforms
Mind Over Matter linktr.ee/mindovermatterbabyyy
Watch Manhattan Neighborhood Network EVERY Saturday @ 12pm
Follow us on Instagram
@mindovermatterbabyyy
DEJA @deja.waja
And I've been having this conversation a lot recently of like, especially as a creative or anyone trying to do any like yeah, create anything. I think sometimes we get way too caught up in our surrounding circle in terms of bouncing ideas off of them. And I'm not saying they don't care about us, I'm not saying they don't have the best intention for us, but oftentimes, if we're being honest about what our goals are and what we're trying to do, we're trying to reach people beyond our circle. So what they might like or not like, they don't know what the world thinks. You know what I mean Like, and we can stop ourselves because we're not like looking over the wall of our own reality.
Speaker 1:And again, it's not that they don't love us, it's not that they don't want the best for us, it's just that their perspective is towards you. Your perspective is out there. You know what I mean. So sometimes we got to open our minds up and be like yo, like I'm actually at a point now when people close to me don't like what I'm thinking or like I don't know about. I'm like I might be on the song.
Speaker 2:That's exactly how you know. That's exactly how, like, I gauge if I'm on the right thing. Once you say you don't like it, I'm like yup, that's it.
Speaker 3:Mind over matter is magic. You think the man works over matter is magic.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Mind Over Matter, baby. I'm your host, deja Wallace, and if this is your first time joining me, welcome. If this is not to your first time joining me, welcome back. I appreciate you. Shout out to you you real, you loyal, I appreciate you. Episode 74 of Mind Over Matter. I have the lovely.
Speaker 1:Kamal X.
Speaker 2:Kamal X in the building. Let's go, let's go. It's going real right now. Wow.
Speaker 1:Yes, you're really here.
Speaker 2:Thank you for coming.
Speaker 1:You're so good too, like you did that amazing just now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, episode 74,. I wasn't lying, there's no cat over here no cat. Yeah. So today I want to talk about the power of choice. We're going to also talk about your book, black Astronaut the Black Astronaut, and I just want to get to know you a little more and your work as a photographer.
Speaker 1:We can buy about you. Yeah, I'm here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the Black Astronaut, your book that's out right now. Talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's coming out on October 24th. It's a book that is based on everything that happened since 2020 with COVID, with the murder of George Floyd, women's rights, anti-vax, vax vives and just what was going down with the presidential campaign stuff, and ultimately, all that stuff is encapsulated by my experience. The book is about what I saw when I left my apartment in Oakland to shoot what I felt was a time in history that I didn't want to get misrepresented. I felt like a lot of the imagery that I saw, whether it be on CNN or Instagram and stuff like that. It seemed like it was so caught up in the rage of everything that was going on outside but it wasn't getting into the underneath voices.
Speaker 1:It was one-sided, One-sided very and I felt like the photographers maybe because they weren't a part of the community, maybe I don't know but it just didn't feel like it gave the respect and honor what we really were outside about in our cry not our cry, but our journey since the beginning. So I wanted to do my part in that and it kind of like I didn't know it was going to become a book, but it ended up being three years of traveling throughout America documenting all these different types of protests and freedom fighting, and I put it into a book called Black Astronaut.
Speaker 2:And what's interesting is that we really lived through this moment in history that is probably going to be teach to our kids. We can say we were there in person live in the flesh.
Speaker 2:And it's interesting that you traveled to do this work as well because, like you were saying before, when you turned on certain news stations at the time, it was very one-sided. You only seen loitering here if you turned on Fox 5, but if you looked here you really were seeing police brutality happening, so you could see the both extreme sides of the spectrum. So it's refreshing to have somebody like you to capture the realness of it all. So traveling, going to India, going around the world, seeing different places, coming in communion to just support black people, black Americans specifically, how did you see the juxtaposition between what was going on outside of America when it came to the Black Lives Matter movement compared to within America?
Speaker 1:Well, I didn't actually go out to country for this book, I went around America. So I would say, if I'm kind of shifting your question a little bit to like, what did I see in different regions of America? I would say honestly, the vibe was real everywhere it was the same kind of you know, there were so many things that we were going through and with the lockdowns, with the confusion with the economy, with the presidency, so much was like hanging in a balance and I think everywhere I went I can see the urgency in everyone's eyes. It was like a lot of times it was like people had to. I felt like it was a release to an extent, like there was so much rage and followed up energy that it was like I need something, I need to find follow into something, I need to yell about something, I need to get this out. And not that there was great purpose in what was going on, obviously, but like it was. That was the part that was kind of very eye-opening to me.
Speaker 2:And why do you say there wasn't great purpose about what was going on? Do you think it could have been used for a better like?
Speaker 1:No, no, no, I'm saying that it was great purpose, Like I don't want to.
Speaker 2:Diminish it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like it was very powerful. But as a photographer, I'm also looking at things kind of very like honest, I can't judge anything, like I try not to judge anything, so I give everyone the same voice, which is the difficulty of it too, because, like there was a lot of times I'd be at a rally or a protest and I literally would like stop and just start crying because I need to be working and taking the pictures and all that, but at the same time I feel like I should be in front of the camera too, like I have something I want to say, I'm pissed off. So, being it was a lot of different emotions going on and I think on the working side of it, the creative side of it, I just think there was just a very interesting going to different places and different types of rallies. I saw a lot of the same frustrations. If you just kind of strip it all down.
Speaker 2:And what was like the core messaging you were trying to convey through your photography.
Speaker 1:I would say, the core message is that everyone deserves a chance to speak. Everyone has their own story, their own beliefs, and I think a lot of what I was seeing again seemed very geared towards picking sides or choosing, like I just want to show you this and then, unfortunately, because a lot of people aren't necessarily outside to see things, and these phones have become our gateways to what we think reality is. You know it, can you have to be as a photographer, I feel like I have a responsibility to show you more, like be honest about what I'm seeing, versus just cutting things out. Like there were points where, like I just saw, like so many photographers taking the same photos, the same story, and I'm like I'm out here and I know there's more than just this Like why is that happening? And so for me, it's just that's kind of what I'm all about.
Speaker 1:I just want to give you the honesty so you can I trust the viewer to make their own decision with it. I trust that you have discernment and seeing something that might make you uncomfortable, but still understand that that person is a human too, and not to hate something that you may not understand, because I know as me, we all know this is black people in America. We get judged all the time, and all we really want is fairness. We don't need you to kiss our behinds or give us favoritism, we just want to be treated equal. That's it.
Speaker 2:I like that. You're like widening the perspective, because when you're just seeing these same images, you're usually going to fall into this stereotype and this caricature of black people. So it's interesting because I am a journalist and in a way, I think you do journalism in a way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, in a way, my own version.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's interesting because I always think it's very challenging for me to be unbiased. You know sometimes I'm very passionate about certain topics and it's very hard for me to stay just with the analytical eye and think logically and my emotions do get into my work and sometimes it makes For me. Personally, I think it makes my best work because I feel like it's very passion filled, but at times it can fall into just like being too like biased.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then which is fine, which is so how do you keep like that balance?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think and I think everyone has their own route Like I think everything has its place. Like I'm choosing, like I try to be very open-minded. But I'm just a very open-minded person, you know, like I get very passionate about things, but I have my own way of finding that balance. And I think the balance for me is like I try to I want people to reflect. My goal is to have people reflect.
Speaker 1:I'm not really that concerned about you thinking I know something that you should listen to. I'm more so thinking like I wanna give you an opportunity to learn for yourself. That's something that I was raised with. Like my mom, even growing up, she would always go. Like, instead of just telling me what to believe or be, she would be like well, what do you think about it? Like, give me your perspective. Like I grew up in that kind of environment.
Speaker 1:So, as an artist, I've somehow I found a balance of like I'm not shooting things I don't wanna shoot, though. Like I'm not just out there just to shoot it. There's something near that's pulling me there, but at the same time and I am saying something very straightforward, but at the same time I don't wanna narrate it in a way that takes away your opportunity to have your own opinion about something you know. For me, and that's my medium is photography on top of that, like if I was writing I don't know if that would be the same thing but like with artistry, like photography for me is just like once it's out there, it's out there and people and it's something that I might see I always notice every time I show or I have conversations about my photography. Oftentimes people say things and notice things. I ain't even mean to do it. I love that.
Speaker 1:Like, I'm like a word, that's what you see, and I'm like yeah, and the way you did this and I'm like, oh really, I wasn't even thinking about keeping it real, but that's the, I think, the beauty about it. But I think also the answer to your question is I really enjoy meeting and connecting and learning. Meeting, connecting and learning my curiosity is like my main driving factor and I wanna go into new worlds. I wanna see things that are enticing to me or things that are like make me go oh, what did that mean? Or versus if I see something and I was like, okay, I've seen that image before, I've seen the story before, I'm like how do we push the envelope?
Speaker 2:So how are you doing that? How are you being just forward thinking in your photography?
Speaker 1:I think choosing to be honest with who I am and asking myself questions reflecting the same thing I'm asking for other people to do is what I'm putting into myself. So, for instance, with the book Black Astronaut, like I could have went the route of call it America in Crisis or American protest, keeping it very like you know books that have happened already but I wanted to push the envelope. I wanted to create something that's like wait what that's a powerful name.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like, thank you for that. I appreciate that so much. And even when I came up with the concept, I remember I told a few people about it. It was like I don't know that's gonna be too. It's not gonna. And then, to my surprise, when I sent out all the proposals and was trying to find a publisher for it, I got a lot of great replies. I got a good number of yeses and I'm thinking and that was a learning experience for me in terms of like not listening to what other people say like really trust yourself, even if it's different. You know what I mean. I think pushing the envelope is something that it's important that we all do with our time here. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:That's very interesting. I have had people DM me pressed about the name of my podcast, telling me to change the name.
Speaker 3:It's too long like nobody's gonna get it and I kept the name.
Speaker 2:Because it made sense to me sometimes when it comes to, like, art and creativity. If it makes sense to you, I feel like that's good enough, because that's how you're gonna connect with those type of people. Because the people who are telling me okay the name, I don't like it, well then there's other podcast names that you would like and that would fall into something that interests you.
Speaker 1:So there's a other point to add to that point, because I agree 100% and I've been having this conversation a lot recently of like, especially as a creative or anyone trying to do anything Like yeah, create anything. I think sometimes we get way too caught up in our surrounding circle in terms of bouncing ideas off of them. And I'm not saying they don't care about us, I'm not saying they don't have the best intention for us, but oftentimes, if we're being honest about what our goals are and what we're trying to do, we're trying to reach people beyond our circle. So, what they might like or not like, they don't know what the world thinks. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:And we can stop ourselves because we're not like looking over the wall of our own reality. And again, it's not that they don't love us, it's not that they don't want the best for us, it's just that their perspective is towards you. Your perspective is out there. You know what I mean. So sometimes we got to open our minds up and be like yo, like I'm actually at a point now when people close to me don't like what I'm thinking or like I don't know about. I'm like I might be on a song.
Speaker 2:That's exactly how. That's exactly how I gauge if I'm on the right thing. Once you say you don't like it, I'm like yo, that's it, or yeah. I just want to do the opposite of what the crowd is doing. You know, that's how you stand out in this world.
Speaker 1:Exactly and be honest, because we and that's the thing about this whole creative thing it's like you want to feel good about what you're doing. What does it matter if everybody likes it? But it wasn't your idea. You know what I mean. You became successful, but it wasn't. You might feel like a fraud.
Speaker 2:Like, you feel like you held back though, yeah, and then you have to keep living up to this character now, because that you aren't yes. And that's draining. That's even more draining than being yourself, I'm telling you and going with your own vision, because now it's like you have to keep watering this character and it's so like not natural to you Exactly.
Speaker 2:So it's actually coming to your detriment. And there's this quote by Nipsey that goes do I want to be at peace with myself and at war with the world, or at peace with the world and I war with myself?
Speaker 1:That's the balance.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's real. I'd rather be at peace with myself Me personally.
Speaker 1:Word like in the older I get and the more, the more you bet on yourself. It's just doper. Even if you don't get the successes that are the goals that you envision for yourself, you still have so much to be appreciative of.
Speaker 1:And you're like in your truth. There's this other quote, too, to add on to what you're saying. Rick Rubin said it and it's really been really profound to me. He said the audience comes last. He said the audience as an artist, as a person that's creating, the audience should come last. And that's because we care about the audience, not because they don't matter, it's because the audience wants you. They're not too caught up in like the medium. It's really the artists that they're trying to connect to. They're trying to get to know who made that. What's their story? What made, what was the inspiration?
Speaker 2:Yeah, they don't care about the crew or your team or extra or your friends. Word. They're not interested in that. It's the person. Word. Yeah, word. So how do you feel like the climate of all? Right, let me shift this to. I wanna talk about this. Go with the flow, I'm with it. Did you always picture yourself here like being a photographer, doing what you're doing?
Speaker 1:Definitely not. This is all a surprise.
Speaker 2:Okay, did you go?
Speaker 1:to school for this. No, this is all self-taught, this is and, to be honest, it all started well. It's just gonna change the vibe a little bit, but it's okay, we all revived. I wanna say like about 10 years ago I lost my best friend in cancer.
Speaker 2:Damn sorry.
Speaker 1:No, all of Andrew Kelly, my guy, and when he transitioned I dropped everything. I dropped like my whole. I was on a whole different trajectory and I just had to throw it all away and I had to figure me out again. I had to, like, go into myself. I had to stop being of service to everybody else and figure out how to be service to me. And the way I went about that was traveling. So I started traveling internationally and it was like a one-trip thing for 40 days in Southeast Asia. That became like five years of traveling around the world and that it was like a one-trip thing for me.
Speaker 1:But in the midst of all that and just dealing with the grief, finding healing, finding reuniting my love for myself in life I picked up a camera. So as I was doing it, I was only just taking pictures because I was going to very interesting, cool places and it was like, okay, I want to share what I'm seeing and I want to do it in a way like better than what an iPhone can do, you know. But that like it, like I got really into the camera man, like it just became like a part of me and like I started getting feedback from friends and I'll never forget. There was one good friend of mine when I was living in New York the first time and she was like you know, you're an artist, right. And I was like, nah, I ain't no, like, what are you talking about? So I was like, nah, you're, you're an artist, like.
Speaker 1:And from that point I trusted her a lot. So I was like maybe she is on to something. So I just like, all right, cool, we're going to go for it. And you know not that it was been an easy thing at all. It was very, very a lot of hard work is involved, but it kind of just like it felt right and I just that's how I've been rolling. I've just been kind of doing what feels right and it's been opening doors and just pretty much anything that I really put my heart into. I find a way to like make it happen. So it's a surprise and but I'm really thankful at the same time.
Speaker 2:Yes, beautiful that you were able to find yourself through this, through your passion. I feel like it's something I wish everybody can get to before they leave this world is to find something that truly satisfies their soul, and they're not looking for an outcome from it.
Speaker 1:I think most people it's there. They just don't, maybe don't recognize it because even though, like, yeah, this is a surprise, but beforehand, like I was always the friend that would have the camera, like I will always be the friend Like see how this coffee table is, like every apartment I had, especially in college, I would put a collage of photos under it. Like so all my friends and stuff, they would come over and look. So photos. Even though I wasn't a photographer or consider myself an artist, I was always attracted to what cameras do. And then hella, movies, like I've watched so many. It's crazy. So it's always. I think it's there is just sometimes we got to like sit down and reflect and be honest with what we actually like and don't care what no one says about it. And you'll be surprised what can happen. Like something that can seem simple can change the world, literally.
Speaker 2:Because I always feel like there's no finding yourself. I always feel like you are your like. In essence, you are you, so how can you find yourself Right?
Speaker 2:Unless you're lost. I feel like society oftentimes distract us from getting to know ourself more, so a lot of people are walking around with, like this lost sense of self, which is why, like, I don't really believe in that ideology of finding yourself because you are yourself. So it's interesting that you can like link back to your childhood moments where that photography was actually a part of it, even though, like, we're so like focused on finding the career and like having things definite and going to school for this specific thing and then having that specific. Like you're going to school for nursing. Now you have to be a nurse.
Speaker 2:You know you could go to school for nursing and be a designer and apply different things from that course into your designs. You know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree 100%. One of the I forget where I got it. Somebody said this one time speaking. I heard him say he was like it's nothing worse than a person that's out of place and like sometimes you can want something so bad you can say this is what I think I want, and then sometimes your visualization doesn't match up to when you actually get the position.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:When you actually get into those places and you go this isn't what I thought you know and then, unfortunately, because of the time and I'm not judging anyone's decision making on this either way you go. But the strength it takes to say I made this decision and I don't like it and I'm going to walk away and start over, that's a certain level of bravery and courage, but I think it's so worth it at the same time.
Speaker 1:It is For me personally. I know the people that have made the shifts and I've never seen them not figure it out, you know, but the people I know.
Speaker 1:So I think sometimes, yeah, life, this world, can kind of make you feel like you don't have the freedom to choose and make a change and be honest and everyone's going to judge me and people are going to think I'm stupid and they're going to think about how much money I wasted on this, this and that. But like yo you're alive. Like don't let anybody's perspective of you stop you from enjoying every moment you're gifted to be here. You know, and that's like one of the things that comes with its own thing. Like you know, life is real. So life isn't just a quote and you do it. I know life is struggles and you got bills and it's a lot more to it, but at the same time, like, I think a lot of people should just move in faith more and not hesitate as much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like, go with your intuition and trust it, because the more you go against it, I feel like you're quieting your inner voice.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you a question what do you think? How does someone build their confidence?
Speaker 2:That's a good question, I think, from somebody who is very, I will say, shy, more so than insecure. I just like started like growing more confidence in myself. I will say me personally you just have to, you have to understand yourself. I feel like you have to like take time to get to know yourself, and my confidence personally comes from me knowing who I am and knowing my morals and all my ethics and knowing that I will never deviate from that. That's where I get my confidence from.
Speaker 2:People could get it from other sources too, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I love your answer and I feel the same way and I've just noticed like when you put hard work into anything, it builds confidence.
Speaker 2:Because I feel like when you're able to see a vision for yourself and then put it into reality, it's like this inner sense of confidence that you're going to get from that, because you know that, you did that, you know.
Speaker 1:Nobody else did. And my question oh, not my question my thing that I'm like throwing out with this conversation that I'm thinking about right now is like maybe sometimes we stay in places because we haven't done the hard work towards what we really want to be yet. So we stay stuck and we think like it's a decision, like, oh, I just want to do this. But the truth is like, if you want to be an artist, for example, like become a photographer, it's so much hard work, but anyone can just pick up a camera tomorrow and say I'm a photographer, exactly.
Speaker 1:And so I think the hard work component of it is something that we don't talk about enough and we don't show enough, and people think things are just like this oh, I want to be this. And they just stay stuck because it's like we're not being honest about what passion looks like, what truth looks like, what like having a real vision and like going in the dark room and like all the stuff that it takes, and people are only seeing this fake image on TV and everything, and they're like staying stuck and they're like I'm afraid, I'm afraid, you're afraid because you haven't done the work yet. Yeah, start figuring out what you want to do and get in the lab and then that will build the confidence so you can leave that situation because you know, like nah I'm, I don't done the work like you can't tell me.
Speaker 2:What also feeds my confidence as well is to know that I have insecurities. We're not all of us like I feel like all of us have insecurities. But I had the willpower to take those insecurities, put it on blast and overcome it. Because public speaking like two years, not even two years like four years ago this will look crazy to me because I'm not a social butterfly, you know, but like having a podcast you would like assume, people are extroverted, their social butterflies, their great conversation is they want to talk to everybody in the room. But I'm not like that. But I had to really put my insecurities out and on blast to become comfortable.
Speaker 1:So that's where I really get my confidence. That's so real because then they don't have as much weight. No more, it's out there Exactly.
Speaker 2:It's like I already told you so and I overcame it. I want to get to some TikTok questions. Let's do it, okay. What would you tell someone this is from Desi Des Des what would you? What would you tell someone who's trying to follow or have the same interest as you?
Speaker 1:Oh it's expensive, yeah, those cameras.
Speaker 1:It's expensive and there's no shortcuts, but you don't. Let's see, that's funny, actually, now I think about it, because you don't have to buy expensive gear to get a camera and take photos. But as you grow as a photographer, you're going to need certain things. But it shouldn't be. You don't have to buy everything from the jump and you haven't even really been, you're not there yet. Pick some cheap, the most affordable situation that makes sense, and build your way up. But it does get expensive at the same time. You just need to be honest about it, because there's no, you can't cheat the vibe. You have to do the work. I just think anything with creativity. People say it all the time, but you really do, because if not, it's going to show your imagery or whatever you're working on. It's not going to break the wall or reach people outside of your friend group. You have to really do what people aren't willing to do if you want to stand out in today's creative world. I think that's the thing people are afraid of, but getting confidence.
Speaker 2:I feel like just thinking about starting this podcast. I didn't have any of this equipment. I didn't even have a microphone. I was on my phone, on the VoiceRecord app, the VoiceRecord app on iPhone recording why? Because that was what my spirit was telling me to do. That's what I did. I didn't hesitate, with it back to doubting your intuition, I just did it. I didn't even think of an outcome, I just had to do it because that was my calling, in a way. A lot of people they give themselves the excuse to procrastinate when they try to be perfect from the start.
Speaker 2:You can't be perfect and a beginner. You're going to have to go through growing pains. You're going to have to start somewhere. You have to grow, and growth isn't perfect. You're going to have to struggle. I've struggled with this podcast. I'm still struggling to get it off the ground, but I'm trying to make it look good, you know, but at the same time, thank you, thank you. Thank you, it was my fault, thank you, I tried, I tried. It took me 75 tries, probably plus. That was how much I was counting it worked.
Speaker 2:You know how much files got deleted, so much podcast episodes got lost.
Speaker 1:I feel you. I feel you and that's so. I love everything you just said, Like starting where you can and just work, Let it build naturally. You don't gotta be a professional, you don't gotta be. That's the thing. Photographers they love to talk about the equipment Like, and I'm like show me your photos, bro, Don't tell me about, yeah, I got the, show me your photo, and that's all I need to know, Cause I'm not thinking about the type of camera you used. When I see a photo that's like yo, that's dope, and I think that should be the goal. Get into like, working on the impact versus all this equipment and all that. The equipment gonna come, but it's gonna be natural, you know like, and just don't get too caught up in all that. So I agree with everything you're saying.
Speaker 2:That's just so real yeah, just start, Just start yeah. It doesn't have to be perfect. Another question I got is how do you overcome adversary, adversity and your own struggles and still have the passion for your artistry?
Speaker 1:How do you I think that's the vibe we're kind of talking about it right now Like the pain is what makes it beautiful. Like the struggle, the scrappiness, like literally that's what makes it dope. Like figuring out a way, that's part of it, that's the thing that no one can take from you. Like when everything, like if I have an SD card, like literally I was at one shoot and I was at. Where was I at? I was at Washington DC for the. I have a dream, march. Oh, wow.
Speaker 1:And one of my memory cards failed and I had a lot of good photos on there. I hate that for you, right? So I I know the struggle and I had to like figure it out. And then but also I have a couple more I knew people still out there so I put a new one in and I had to hustle, hustle, like it was like, all right, that might not work when I took on that picture. So now I got to do it all over again, like, and I was in the moment I actually almost had a heat stroke that day.
Speaker 1:So my friends, that was hot in DC that day and, like I remember, one of my friends is a doctor and she saw I was just like come on, sit down. She got like a bunch of Gatorades and everything, cause I was just hustling Like it was like yo, the work, the work, I got a. This moment won't happen again.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, you know what I mean. So I think that I, like you, need to love not love it cause it's, but just know it's going to come and know that, like most beautiful things come through that Like when it's perfect and you have all the amazing equipment and you haven't done the hard work, you haven't deleted stuff by mistake, and like I just think you haven't earned the feeling that comes when you really do the work.
Speaker 2:And you're going to take it for granted.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100% For sure.
Speaker 2:You're not going to appreciate it.
Speaker 1:And then what happens when some real ish does happen and you just dropped the ball cause you're, you're waiting there, you not ready? Like I could be on the shoot now if a card, something, the camera don't work. Like I'm ready, I've done it and I'm going to be cool about it. You won't even know Like I'm tripping inside, but I'm like I'm being like okay, cool, cool versus you got to be ready to go. So diversity is good because it prepares you for when something gets real or when you get an opportunity.
Speaker 1:That's like a next level thing. Like I remember one time I got an opportunity with Apple and it was like for billboards and all that stuff. And like I remember when they hit me up about it and they were like we're going to do these black photographers mall over to America, and it's like like I'm like oh snap, like I'm going against, like not that we're together, but at the same time I ain't want to have a whack one. Like I ain't want to have a photo that was like oh, that's the. You know what I mean. Like so it was like it was game time, like it was like let's go, but like all those adversities, it just makes you a better, whatever you do, I think.
Speaker 2:And you always think about the people who do become successful and have all these accolades on or just recognized in society. They always talk about like these hard, strenuous years, not just one year years they had to go through that accumulated to being the successful person they are Like I watch these interviews all the time they're talking about how they slept out their car, how somebody passed away, Like sometimes like just these extreme things to wake them up and actually have them take life seriously and move it more intent.
Speaker 1:Word.
Speaker 2:So you have to go through that. Some people like it's going to take different extremes to get them to that point to wake up and actually, like you know, leave an imprint on this world that you're proud of.
Speaker 1:Facts, so Find something you will, you willing to fight for, exactly Like find that thing that you're that passionate about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Even when everything is against you, you still want to stand up and do your best, like. Everybody has that somewhere in their life, even if it's a person like not like family. It could be like not just career stuff, it just something like find that passion and I think it blossoms into certain things or different things or opens new doors.
Speaker 2:So how does one find a passion?
Speaker 1:You gotta spend time with yourself, yo, like you kind of said it. Like you know, life gets real. Like I shared the experience I had about my best friend, but even along with that, I've had other experiences that I really set me to hell down. Like sit down, like you know, like you move, and quick, I know, but life happens and it catches up to all of us and it's like you have a decision, like you can either run towards it or you can run away, and for a lot of my early 20s I was running away, you know, and but you can't run from yourself for so long, you know.
Speaker 1:So I think, yeah, sitting down and getting and reading, writing, for sure, catching up with finding mentors, finding idols, researching people that are doing what you wanna be doing, or even if they're in a different medium, but they're just an inspiring figure to you. Like learn, get OGs, like seriously, that's the biggest thing. Like finding people that have done it before. I think that's one of the things that I don't hear a lot of anymore. Like, and it's just so much information out there that can like help mold you or at least give you directions so you don't make the same mistakes that other people already did. You know what I mean as a creative, as a person.
Speaker 2:So yeah, yeah, okay, let's talk about the state of the culture, because I feel like, is this correct that you're basically you kind of kickstarted your photography in the height of the Black Lives Matter movement, is that correct?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it went to a different level. It definitely went from like, okay, I can say I'm a professional photographer, for sure, but in terms of, I guess, a more major impact or more people or bigger deals or whatever you wanna call it, like that kind of happened during the pandemic and it mainly happened because, like with the last question, like I just sat down and I remember I was in Oakland when this happened, when it was in lockdown and I had this crazy conversation. I turned everything off TV, computer, phone and I just had to pray and like I was just on some some made me feel like all my life from running and like just trying different things and just always like being a very big people person. At the same time, I would oftentimes shy away from being direct about what I really wanted. Like I was cool, being of service to people. I was cool with like having a good life, enjoying life that's important to me, and then like little pieces of success, I'm cool with that. But like when I thought the world was about to end, like I literally was like well, if I die, I'll be damned if I die, and I don't even say exactly what I want, like just say it. Like own it too, like unapologetically, like say, exactly as crazy as it might sound, just be like this is what I want.
Speaker 1:And in that conversation I said that like and it was the first time I ever decreed out loud, like, in a way, like yo, this is exactly what I want. I want to reach the world. I want to create imagery that impacts people and uplifts people and gives people a sense of freedom, gives people a sense of purpose, and also, just like, open my world to people I've never thought I would meet and like create like beautiful relationships, all this kind of stuff. I was just decreeing, like it was like a player beyond a play, it was life. But right after that moment it came to me, like once I said it.
Speaker 1:Then naturally I realized, okay, here comes the work. Then it didn't like fall to sky. It was like well, you said it. So now research what it takes to be this Research. Find people that's doing it and find out what they're doing. Send them emails and ask them questions, which I was doing. Find under photographers you look up to on Instagram and I got all these followers and all that and ask them like yo, what did they? How did they get in those galleries. How did they get that book deal? How did they get that contract?
Speaker 2:And for me, I like glamorizing the work. A lot of people are scared of the work they're scared of the grind. They kind of put a negative connotation on it, but I glamorize it. It's really like I lean into hard work, like challenging myself, trying to push my limits.
Speaker 1:And that's the funny thing, cause I'm not like that about things I don't care about. Yeah for sure, Like yeah. And sometimes when I was younger, I thought I was lazy. And it wasn't lazy, I just wasn't motivated. It's interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like you gotta find the thing, that you really that clicks with you and you'll be working and all the whole can't sleep and it's on your mind all day and you talk about it, you think about like and I found that in during the pandemic, I think again the hard work and pushing and things just both roads seem to collide in a good way and I kind of just the OGs man like the OGs gave me so much information, asking questions, sending emails, and it's like simple, once you get the answers, like okay, cool, and I'm down to give the answers too. Like if anyone ever asks me, I'm like yeah, that's what you need to do and I think that's the way With the Black Lives Matter movement.
Speaker 2:I know you've seen a lot of like. I know it was a very heavy feeling being in the midst of all of that right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Very like melancholy feeling sometimes seeing your people just still going through things that you would think should be over with, right, but are you enthusiastic about the future for Black people?
Speaker 1:Enthusiastic.
Speaker 2:I don't feel no enthusiastic.
Speaker 1:No, I don't Enthusiastic is coming from me right now I don't, and why?
Speaker 1:Only because but I'm not saying that we don't have I'm not optimistic about our future. I'm saying I think I'm a more present person and I'm looking at what we got right now and what's going on right now and, even though there's plenty that we should be, that we are, I'm thankful for that. We're doing this beautiful. But my brain naturally goes into okay, what can we do better at, to be better tomorrow, like that's how my brain functions. So I just want again that's why reflection is so important to me Like I just want more honesty, more like looking in the mirror and kind of like seeing things that we can adjust, and not just following what's popular or doing things, because it's what people are doing and certain behaviors that aren't really who you are. It's just it feels okay because this is what's accepted right now and I think we're way more individualistic than we give ourselves credit for, and I think it's through our individuality that we as a people become stronger, and I think we've kind of losing.
Speaker 2:We're losing our I think we need each other. I think we need some type of communion.
Speaker 1:No, no no, I think we're saying the same thing. I'm saying like, through finding who you are, you become a stronger person of the community, and if you don't know who you are, you might be with the community, but you're just a blank, you're not really bringing. Yeah, like I want people to be so, knowing who they are, figured it out, that they, when they come to the community, actually got something to bring, something to say, something that we can use, tools. And it's like I'm not just here yelling, but like yo, no, I got this company, I got this book, I done. I got this podcast I'm doing, I got, like I done, done so much work on me. Now that I'm with us, we gonna do this.
Speaker 2:It's like you can't help other people if you can't even help yourself, kind of concept.
Speaker 1:And that's what I mean by the individual aspect of it, cause we definitely need each other for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I love how we do. We are together and we do support each other. And even this podcast right now. This is beautiful, Like this really is. This is what it's all about. Honestly, I'm trying, I'm trying. You doing it, you doing it for real.
Speaker 2:Do you think there's a disconnect between us as a people when I say us as a people, black people, creating our own realities versus living in other people realities?
Speaker 1:What do you mean? Like what does that?
Speaker 2:mean when I say that, I mean like sometimes I feel like it's so hard for us to get further as a people because we have to. We're living in like a white patriarchy, basically. So this is not a reality that we curated from the start. So it's very hard for us to even find our peace and happiness in a system that wasn't built for us to even have that from the start I got you.
Speaker 2:So do you think there's like a disconnect between us even having like our own schools and being self-sufficient, compared to like just helping the white man get?
Speaker 1:richer. I think we need to, and I say this to everyone that I'm close to, anyway, I say it to y'all. I think we need to know the game that we're playing and know how to use them just the way they're using us, and I think a lot of times we're afraid to manipulate them the way they manipulate us, and we sit there and we just go, we're gonna follow what they say and I don't know what to do. It's like, nah, you can use them just like they're doing the same thing.
Speaker 1:You can take that money from that job but have your other business plan that you're going to use. You can take, figure out, go on the meetings, get as much education as you can get for free, because you're going to use it for your business in the future. Like, don't like, and that's the thing. I think that disconnect or maybe this is the answer I'm trying to give to your question is like I think we just need to be honest about the game again, the game that we're playing, and use it to our betterment. Like I just think we give so much and we want them to accept us, we want us to give us these things and we get a house and we can say we have this job title and we want people to kiss our behinds because of these things. But we know, when we go to work we get talked too crazy, we get disrespected, but when we go around our friends, we want to be all, all ish stuff and it's like nah, like know the game you playing and make sure you position things for your family, for your family's family, and like, think down the road, like, think, like, what is your children's children's going to be dealing with? What business can you create? What real estate can you start investing in? Like, learn the game. Because I'm telling you whether it's the white man or whoever that's out here trying to like take advantage of you, they got a game plan. This isn't like they didn't just wake up and go oh no, I didn't mean to do that. This is generations of like yo, this is what you do. Set up shop in this neighborhood, you don't got to live there. Take their money, like this is like, and they do it generation after generation and we just get, like you know, in the headlights and like nah, I played a game. Just like they doing, and it ain't no hard feelings. Let them do them. Don't take it personally. Just like okay, cool, you doing that, well, I got it. And don't even tell them, don't even make it a.
Speaker 1:And that's the other part. Like, sometimes we get so caught up in the announcements and making sure everybody know what we doing I got this, I got that, I got this. Like, just like, move in silence and worry about your family and the success. That's it. Don't, that's the.
Speaker 1:That's what I want for us more, because there's a lot of talk, but then when you start to get into the bottom of it and start asking more questions and look for resources, you find out, oh, this is a lot of it's a facade, like we need to get into the truth of it and like that's what I want for us, cause I'm all about independence, I'm all about finding your own way, even like with this deal I got with this book, like I made sure I reconstructed the contract. I didn't just take the first thing and go all right, cool, I'm happy to get a book deal, like he's. Oh, it's going to be released internationally, oh, wow. But I'm like, well, I want this, though, I want this, and if you can't and I remember it was like legit get off the phone, like I'll let you know.
Speaker 1:I don't know if and I'm like I might lose this deal, but it's like I have to be, know your worth and play the game just like they plan, like we both deserve to get something out of this, not you just being happy because someone say you.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, and I also wish a lot of our people could get out the victim mentality as well, because, quite frankly, I'm not even like going to be a victim or even like victimize myself, because I understand that they have their own agendas for their people, their culture, and they want to have, like, basically, america. I feel like it's the only place in the world that cares about race, like actual, like black, white, like as much as compared to everywhere else in the world. So I understand that, of course, there's going to be people winning or people on top of the tattem pole. When it comes to having different races, you're going to have somebody winning and somebody not winning. So I'm not even mad at them, cause like they want to win and they're doing everything they need to do to win. So why are we worried about that? Now, let's focus on us winning instead of being like oh no, they had us as slaves and then, but now you're not a slave, so now what?
Speaker 1:And I think that's something that's becoming more prevalent of the like. I feel like I deserve things versus and you, I mean people, we all deserve equal equality and all that great stuff. But at the same time, it's like if you don't like the way things is going, then do something about it. Like, and all of us have a voice. We're here for a reason, I think. The thing I always think about is like yo do you realize and I say this to everybody, I feel this way about everybody Do you know how beautiful you are?
Speaker 1:Like, do you know how how much of a miracle is that you're even alive right now? Like the breath you breathe right now, in this very moment, right now, is a gift that we don't even know how to explain this shit. And it's like you're going to sit here with all that, the whole universe is all tied into you, and you're going to like really let these people sit around and make you not know your strength. Like, take away your voice and you feel powerless. No, you are power. Like you are greatness, but it's hard work and it's like starting from where you need to start and knowing like just starting small, but long as you keep rolling, stuff will open up. I've just never seen it not work for anybody that believes in what they fighting for. I've never seen it, so yeah.
Speaker 2:Exactly. I feel like things are always going to be attracted to the frequency at which you are, so if you're doing the work to be a better person, better things are going to present itself to you in your reality, because you deserve that Exactly the work you put in shows you what you deserve. Exactly.
Speaker 1:There's a question I remember back in the nice little Atlanta. It was a good one. I used to. It really woke me up. A friend of mine was like what happens when you go into a room? What do you bring with you? So if you're in a group of a bunch of people, that has been a question a lot in the dating realm.
Speaker 2:Oh really, what do you as a female, or what do you as a male, bring to the table?
Speaker 1:Oh, that's, correct Okay.
Speaker 2:All right, not that it sounded kind of like that. Right, but the work version of it.
Speaker 1:I see what you're saying, but it was like, well, dating is a different thing to me, but like, yeah, like what? Are you a loving person? Are you a funny person? Are you a person that likes to fix things? Are you a person that's more nurturing? Are you a person that likes to be a part of groups and be a team player? All these things, I think sometimes is like another thing that takes us out of that role of like just being quiet and feeling like, you know, not getting in our voice because we're not thinking about what we can bring. We're thinking about what we deserve versus what we actually bring.
Speaker 2:Right, right, you know, yeah, and like, even when, all right. So I've had instances where I would run into like a celebrity outside the studio or something, and I always say to myself, like, when I do run into like somebody I really admire, like, and they're like a celebrity of high status or something I would want to, I would rather give them something of value. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in that interaction.
Speaker 2:Yeah, then to beg for, like a picture or like you know, I would like to add value to their life, because they always have people always asking so much from them. So, yeah, that's always something I would.
Speaker 1:How do you provide value? What is your? Value Do you bring to, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Real.
Speaker 2:And I feel like to even be valuable. You have to do the work.
Speaker 1:And it's so it's like really it's, it is so you can't cheat it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You can't cheat it and it's going to be obvious.
Speaker 2:We're going to know if you cheated it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the product. The product won't say what it is. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Even with this new podcaster that's like what's it? Named Bobby Autof. I don't know if you've seen her clip.
Speaker 1:Is that the offset one?
Speaker 2:Yes, okay, this girl she just emerged from the woodwork right. And me, as a podcaster, I'm kind of skeptical when I look at her, because I don't watch her interviews, only see her clips the clips on TikTok and social media, and I refuse to watch her interviews. Now I was going to watch one, but I refuse to watch it because I don't think she did the work, because even when I see like I don't know if you're familiar with Joe Rogan.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:He is on episode like 2000.
Speaker 1:2000 right now. Yeah, he was doing it way back.
Speaker 2:He was on episode six with Tyga. Oh, is she a plant.
Speaker 1:Billionaires. Is she a plant? Who's the people she got? That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Where's your work? You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:She's a plant.
Speaker 2:And then she comes on there and she tries to sound like oh, I only got $200 in my pocket. I don't know how I got this interview. I'm not buying it. Sell it somewhere else. Sell that stuff somewhere else, because it's just. I just know you didn't do the work. It's so obvious. I mean, he has a podcaster who was actually doing the work, who's actually editing everything, who's actually barely has money. I could tell you're lying. You know what I mean it takes. So it's so obvious.
Speaker 1:Drake has a line. Since we were talking about Drake a little earlier, he has a line. That was pretty cool. He did it like 10 years ago. He was like and I saw this in the podcast where I got this from and he said something like all these people around me, now let's see who's here 10 years from now, basically, and like in the podcast they kind of show like all the artists that was popping at the same time with him and they said, wow, like Drake is one of the few people that continue to stay on. So I'm using that analogy in terms of like the people that get quick rises and stuff like that. I'm sure she won't be. We won't even be thinking about her in a couple months. You know what I mean. Versus the slow grind.
Speaker 2:I don't know Well, who knows, but I just find most times Because there's a lot of like NPCs in this world, if you know what I mean. That's going to feed into that algorithm.
Speaker 1:I just haven't seen a lot of things that skyrocket out of nowhere. Have sustainability.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Like normally it normally like it's hot, for it's hot. It's in the conversation now. We talked about now but it'll be somebody else that the same people, probably behind her, are going to put another person up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know what I mean. Like, they're just like shuffling new. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Keep it going and, like these, people will be forgotten. But the people behind the scenes are the ones really manipulating the game.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're just like the face of the puppet master. Basically, yeah, thanks.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I never watched any of her interviews either, I just saw that one, but the fact that you're even familiar with her. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's like girl, why does everybody know your name? And you just stepped into the podcast game. Like podcasting is for sure a long game and we see that time and time again. Everybody at the top. They're over 500 episodes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you got to put the time and.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's on episode seven. Like I'm going to you I don't think she has, does she? Have personality. She has like this kind of dry humor, kind of like the office kind of humor. So she's not funny to me but I could see. I could see, like people watching, why people watch her. Yeah, especially funny, marco. That was the first time she blew up with that episode with their kind of like. It was just I don't know. She's not even funny for real. I don't get it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I got. This is a quote that I have in the book. It says don't be a slave to the algorithm. And I just think, like a lot of times, Talk about how I yes, the algorithm is telling us to like shit that we don't even like. You ever heard a song that you didn't like? But you heard it so long that you start like knowing the words. You're like I don't even like this.
Speaker 2:I've never listened to the song a day in my life, but I'm singing the lyrics.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know every word but they, Because they pushing that on us and it's like if you think about the phone, you just there's images and stuff that like there's a machine that's literally like okay, and people are paying that machine to make sure that you're seeing it. So real culture is different from in real life versus what the phone is saying and like. I think that's one of the challenges that we're facing right now, and because people think that phone is reality and it's not Like what seems, like it's popping in the real world, like with people making real deals and really making Like, I don't think it really translates. I think that just is popular, that's like the high school popular team.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:But like who really making money? Who really making that ain't? You're not going to know them on the Instagram algorithm for real and I think people get caught up trying to. I want to be like that, like that Not realizing they hate what they're doing, it's a lie. Like the real workers and that's what I learned with photography.
Speaker 2:I feel like the algorithm also encourages you not to be yourself.
Speaker 1:Exactly it's like a machine, like it's literally a machine. It's not a person saying, oh, I want to find authentic vibes, they're just thinking like, oh, what's the most I feel like the most the realest people on there have like, the least amount of traction and the least amount of likes and the least amount of followers.
Speaker 2:Because I feel like even to like, blow up and become Instagram famous, you have to like basically, you know, like dancing, like for entertainment, like. You have to fit into that one box now.
Speaker 1:And we're so many people and we're so individualistic, we have our own vibe. I'll say this one of the best advice I got as a photographer that changed my career. He was like you know, there's an industry, photographer, art, gallery, all that real stuff that you see on billboards and then you got an Instagram photographer and he said to me, which one do you want to be? And he said both worlds don't collide. So you got to pick one. You can either be everyone on Instagram and they all like the like and you get a thousand million likes to get comments. It's looking, popping on there, but the people that's booking for galleries, they don't really care about that that much. It's about the work. So you want real people, and so I don't know if this works for every industry, but I know as a photographer, that was the game changer for me and I do think there's a truth to that.
Speaker 1:Like, finding ways to connect with people in a real way, I think, is way more impactful, way more of a success move than trying to figure out that damn algorithm, like I, and I think that once you figure out a way to connect people in the real world, the Instagram comes as a sub. It's like comes naturally, like you'll get more followers and it'll become because you got something in the world that you're doing. That's like dope, that's open in real doors with real people that you can have conversations with. I just think sometimes we looking at it the wrong way. Like I don't think that rat race of algorithm is possible. I don't think it exists. That's how.
Speaker 2:I feel about it. I feel like a lot of the times you're just giving away your energy to certain entities for free, and now you're on this app more than you are even focusing on bettering yourself.
Speaker 1:And are you becoming better?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Like, especially as an artist. I've never gotten become better in my voice based on anything I learned on Instagram. Like in terms of the posting aspect of it, conversations and email and all that's different, but like in terms of what I get from showcasing my stuff. They don't even like real art on there.
Speaker 2:Exactly they want, like shit.
Speaker 1:that's like very not even what the art world is looking for. You put that in the gallery. No one would go in there, like you know. So I think just like we need to just learn Well, I had to learn to just I don't take it personally no more Like I get it though, we in this game, but like it's just a game Similar to what I said earlier about like the work environment. Like use them, don't let them use you. Like just know how to play that game, but don't let it take your voice away, don't let it make you think you're not good at what you do because some random person got a thousand followers in one day and you've been working hard. Like just find a different way, find a different. There's a different route for you, I believe. Like for yeah.
Speaker 2:Is there any last words, cause we're reaching the hour mark? Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:Oh, I had to, I don't know, no, that sounded crazy.
Speaker 2:Oh my God. I found it so bad.
Speaker 1:No it was cool. I get it. No, I just really appreciate the space. I really appreciate.
Speaker 2:I appreciate you for blessing the podcast as well. We understand that.
Speaker 1:We understand you definitely. It was a great conversation and I love like catching up on your episodes. I really have been like checking it out. It's really dope, thank you. The conversations are really impactful and I do believe, like the route you're going is where you're on your path, like it's gonna break, like something's gonna. That's how I kind of felt the photography, like it was like all right, I'm getting stuff, I'm getting little deals here, but nothing Like and it just sometimes it just takes one big break and then everything and it's all that work goes into like the preparation. But when the opportunity comes, I believe you will definitely be 100% ready to do whatever Cause you're doing the work and I think all of us are doing the work and not to give up on ourselves.
Speaker 2:And don't be too hard on yourself. There's a quote that goes luck is when opportunity meets preparation.
Speaker 1:Yeah 100% so.
Speaker 2:I'm prepared when the opportunity comes.
Speaker 1:And this is like. This is amazing, though, like, at the same time like look at this.
Speaker 2:I know, I know.
Speaker 1:This is like. This is a different level. Like I walked in, like whoa, this is the most fly stuff. Yeah, this is amazing. So I'm happy to be here, I'm happy to continue to connect and I hope that the listeners caught a vibe today. I definitely hope any support with purchasing my book would mean the world to me. It's called Black Astronaut. It's available on Amazon. If you just searched Black Astronaut, komal X, it pops up.
Speaker 1:It's three years of hard work and it's a concept that I think goes really toe to toe. But we're talking about in this conversation, about like believing in yourself, going against the unknown to find the odds. That's why I came up with the concept Black Astronaut. I feel like we're all astronauts going into the unknown to find, like to figure out our mission. You know what I mean and I want us to. I believe the book is a great way to reflect and to continue to like be inspired to figure out what's next for everybody. Like that's what I wanted to create. That's the space that that book is really rooted in. So just being here right now is dope and I appreciate everybody for real.
Speaker 2:I love that messaging. That's amazing. Yes, so everything link in description for Komal's book. Make sure you order by the time this episode comes out.
Speaker 2:I think it might be out by then yeah, October 24th is the day October 24th, okay, so make sure you're pre-ordering, you're ordering, you're doing what you need to do. Link in the description for all that information. Thank you for listening to the end of the episode. Oh my God, you listen to the end. Oh my God, yes. So make sure you tell a friend to tell a friend. Mother, that is mind over matter, baby.
Speaker 1:That was so good. I like that so much. Yo, I appreciate it. It was so good right.