On this week's episode I'm joined by Zo from Conversations With Zo Podcast. We have a refreshing conversation about the narrative that challenges the stereotypes and celebrates the depth of Black identity. Zo shares his heartfelt insights on fatherhood and the transformative power of self-acceptance plus much more.
Podcast available on ALL listening platforms
Mind Over Matter linktr.ee/mindovermatterbabyyy
Watch Manhattan Neighborhood Network EVERY Saturday @ 12pm
Follow us on Instagram
@mindovermatterbabyyy
DEJA @deja.waja
On this week's episode I'm joined by Zo from Conversations With Zo Podcast. We have a refreshing conversation about the narrative that challenges the stereotypes and celebrates the depth of Black identity. Zo shares his heartfelt insights on fatherhood and the transformative power of self-acceptance plus much more.
Podcast available on ALL listening platforms
Mind Over Matter linktr.ee/mindovermatterbabyyy
Watch Manhattan Neighborhood Network EVERY Saturday @ 12pm
Follow us on Instagram
@mindovermatterbabyyy
DEJA @deja.waja
Does that ever play a role?
Speaker 2:And when you're recording like my kids are going to see this, Hell yeah, I started a conversation with Zoe to just show kids how to embrace themselves, build confidence, be cool with whatever lane that they choose, especially staying out the way. Like there's this false advertising that if you're not gang, you're pussy, or if you're not this, you're that, or you're soft, or you're less than, and all that shit is bullshit because it doesn't transfer, it doesn't translate to real life. It's not real. You know it is real, but it's not real in the sense that we can't go buy a crib with it. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1:It's not tangible, it's not tangible, right, it's not tangible.
Speaker 2:It's not tangible, right? Yeah, it's destructive. It's destructive, right, and it's also not for everyone, right? So I knew that it wasn't for me is magic, I do magic.
Speaker 3:Don't you know? The mind of a man is magic, I do magic. Don't you know?
Speaker 1:the mind of a man is magic, I do magic yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I can't get a year back.
Speaker 2:I wasn't trying to outshine. It's your flow.
Speaker 1:I need passion though.
Speaker 2:To set the tone. I like being it's your floor. I need passion, though, Okay okay, yeah, To set the tone yeah you know what I'm saying yeah, I didn't want to. You know, I like being. I'm not used to being on the side that much. You know what I'm saying, oh, okay.
Speaker 1:Now take my shine, bro Nah. Just keep going Like we could shine together.
Speaker 2:We still in women's month? Oh, we got like two days left. You know what I mean. Yeah, I get it, I get it Okay.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm your host, deja Wallace, and welcome to Mind Over Matter, episode 89. 89., 89. We grinding Almost at big 100. Big 100. Big 100. So much there, we grinding it out, and I have a very special guest with me today. We have Zoe. From Conversations with Zoe, it's the word my people. I'm hype. I'm hype. Thank you for joining me. Thank you so much for having me. Yes, of course, on today's episode, I want to get into fatherhood, because you are a father now. Yeah, got you Congratulations on that. Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1:A father now, yeah congratulations on that, thank you. There's has been a lack of positive representation of black males in media, which is not new to most of us. That that's the unfortunate truth. Most times you turn on the tv and you you're likely, you're more likely to see black men portrayed as thugs, deadbeats, problematic and rather than just upstanding citizens in society. So I feel like as content creators, it's our job to just shift that narrative for people to see just more positive representations of Black people. Because we are nuanced, we are very just like, we're not a monolith. So the purpose of this conversation we are nuanced, we are very just like we're not a monolith Right.
Speaker 1:So the purpose of this conversation is to just widen that view and just shine a light on just the joy and beauty and vastness of being black Right. So if that's something you like, kick back, relax, enjoy this episode.
Speaker 2:Right. Make sure you like subscribe comment. Check out the vibes over here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, splash that like button. You know what I'm saying. We got it going over here, big collab.
Speaker 2:Big collab. You know what I'm saying. I think you know.
Speaker 2:everything's about systems you know, and sometimes I feel like it's easy, right, you know, if you look at no, this is no offense To anybody, or where they live, whatever, but this is just true. If you look at, like, say, the projects, right, it'll be like Three generations of women Living there. Right, it'd be Great grandma, grandma, daughter, right, so They've Like, from the way grandma came up To the mother, to the daughter, you know that same mindset is being pushed. Yeah, like yo, we all we got, we don't need each other, we don't can't have no men living here because they're gonna raise the rent and all of that. So, um, yeah, you don't need him.
Speaker 2:For me, go go tell that person down at that office that you don't got no help, you don't got no baby father, for they could give you more Support and coupons and stamps and all of that.
Speaker 2:So it's kind of Pushed this, this wave, that we don't need Men in the household, that fathers don't matter, and it's like the presence of a father Is vital. You know, you still, both men and women, both need validation From both parties, right, I'm saying Like there's certain things, there's things you need From a woman, your mother, and there's things you need From a man, and that's just that. So they're trying to take away From the the natural world order, like things were built A certain way, and we're trying to rebuild it In a way that's not working. And you can tell it's not working Because even in my high school, most of these young men, fathers are incarcerated or they don't know their dad, right. So that right there, even in my small school of 400 students, you know, you see these kids crashing out, going through it. You know what I'm saying and you can see the ones that have a solid foundation.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean that at least grandpa stepped up, uncle stepped up, somebody filled that void, you know so it's crazy that you said that sometimes it's like basically promoted for just like I would say, normalized for just single parent households. And what I did notice growing up in a two parent household was that sometimes I was shamed by those around me as if, oh, you wouldn't understand because, like you, were spoon fed, as if me having two parents is something that is that I should be ashamed of in a weird way, because most of the people around me did not have a two-parent. I don't know anybody outside of my family, extended family and everything that has a two-parent parent household. In my friend group it was something that was not norm, normal and I didn't know that until I spoke about my parents and then I could see like the like, you know, like the okay, you wouldn't understand kind of stares and going back to like the normalization of it, um, even like, okay, public school system in New York.
Speaker 1:I would sometimes lie on some of the forms to get like free lunch and stuff and just to get like extra help, because just because you have a two-parent household, I don't mean you're the richest person in the world, right? So sometimes my parent, my mom, would like say, oh, lie about this and lie about that to get fast food, to get like better, just more assistance from the government, because the government does incentivize just having just one parent household, right, even when you think about the welfare system, right. So it's crazy that that's just like the climate, it's like in the system so it is.
Speaker 2:This is fresh off the pot, just happened today. Without saying any names, my brother knows who he is, but his father didn't raise him. You know his father left him when he was two, right, and it's fucked up because you know he was. He was reluctant to open up to his pops Because you know his pops is deported and he's in Dominica so his father Couldn't come to his wedding, can't come to shit, because you know he left the country, he skipped out on child support so he can't come back. But you know his father's not Skipped out on child support, so he can't come back. But you know His father's not doing as well as he used to be doing, right, so he didn't want to open up To his dad. He took the chance, thinking that his dad Would understand. But he tells his dad, you know, like man, this shit is tough, kicking my butt, whatever, and his dad is like well, suck it up Right, and that was like so triggering for my brother because it's like yo, bro, like you didn't raise me, like you got wild kids you didn't raise, and here you are and I feel like your dad can't give you what you're looking for. You know what I mean Like he. That's not. He's not in him.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying. He never changed his ways. He, he never changed his ways. He never found a better way. He never found that one child that was like Yo, i'ma do better for this one. But you know, sometimes you resent the child that you saw your parent change, for it's not the reality over here. Look, look at the position that he's in. You know what I'm saying Multiple different wives, divorces. I think he's like, and it's even beautiful For my brother to get married Because he's like, and it's even beautiful for my brother to get married because he's my neighbor, but I call him my brother. He's a product of like. I want to say four or five divorces. I think his mother had two, his father had three, so for him to be married to his beautiful queen and then to have a beautiful daughter.
Speaker 2:It's a beautiful thing. You know what I'm saying and I feel like sometimes, you know, being a generation that's going to break all the curses and find a new way and heal and do therapy and find different ways and not just be like yo, I'm out. You know what I'm saying. Like it's a lot of pressure, but you know that's why you got your brothers there with you and your friends and they there to support you and help uplift you, and in that moment I felt it was one of those long I was like, nah, I got gotta sit down and read this, because once I read a couple lines I was there with him.
Speaker 2:You know I'm saying going through this stuff. You know I'm saying like I think I met his dad like maybe three or four times in my life, maybe five maybe. And you know we're we're learning things, we're teaching ourselves in a way, you know I'm saying and we're kind of feeding off of I want to give what I didn't get. You know I'm saying I want to bring this love, you know, to my child. I want to be financially free, you know.
Speaker 1:So that way, like it's really challenging because most of us our foundation of how to give love is our foundation of how to get love is started in our household, how we receive love. So even like trying to unlearn some certain forms of methods that our parents used in parenting is very challenging. So how are you going to parent your child differently?
Speaker 2:right in this generation well, I'm pro ass whooping, so I'm gonna put that oh wow, I'm saying we same, I'm, I'm for this, I'm with this same you heard, henny and lenny, you know me, don't play with me.
Speaker 2:You know I'm saying but I like um, it's also I. I just want to put that out there because I'm not. I'm not afraid of that and I know um. I also know that there's a balance to it, right? Yeah, the gentle parenting route, um Talking to them, understanding, finding ways, sitting them down, finding ways To redirect his energy, um Things that I've learned these last three years, um, and I know that I mean I go Months and weeks without, but sometimes you cross the line. Yeah, you know what I mean. Like what did you do to your mother? Like, and it's just, you crossed the line, brother. Yeah, you know what I mean. Like, what'd you do to your mother? Like, and it's just certain things that he has to know that there's a consequence for that Like, you know what I mean. And also just like, when you hit somebody, somebody's going to hit you back. So sometimes he'll hit me and I'll just hit him right back because you need to learn, bro, right.
Speaker 1:You're not going to be like oh, don't do that again. Next time you do that, you're going in timeout Like it's not going to, they're not going to receive it.
Speaker 2:Listen, hendrix is a future mogul, like he's a future professional athlete. Like you know what I'm saying. He's athletic already at three years old, very bright, and he's not a small kid. He's not a small kid, he's four, two, he's three, mom's five, three.
Speaker 2:I'm just trying to get ahead of this. You know I'm saying it's not, it's not fear, it's respect, it's a difference and there's a. There's just a certain thing that he knows he can't play with me like that. I'm saying, and I and I, just his mother, she's coming around, you know, she's seeing, but these are young men we're raising. You know what I'm saying. And the world? You know these are beautiful, brown-skinned boys that the world is not going to be so kind to. Sometimes. You know, I don't know where the world is trending in and I can't hide him from a reality that you know, an officer or whoever it may be.
Speaker 2:You know I'm going to prep him. I'm going to prep him. I'm going to make sure that when he's not in my care, his mindset is sharp. He's ready to deal with whatever comes his way, whether he has to defend himself, whether he has to use his words and de-escalate the situation. He's going to know right, because we're going to cross those things together, right. But also, you know, with my partner it's about knowing that he needs to know he can't play with you like that. You know what I mean, so I understand. Everyone has their Fair share of War stories, of ass whoopings or whatever it may be, but this is just like A three strikes you out Kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you've taken it too far, young buddy, and you know we need to realign you. Or if you've taken it that far where it's like, bro, like we just got to bring you back down to earth, you know, sometimes it's not needed, sometimes it is needed no, for real.
Speaker 1:You have to use your discretion as a parent to know like when it's abuse and when it's like just discipline.
Speaker 2:Now, like I've always said that I always said like to my friends, I'm going to beat my kid right, it's almost like as an adult, you could tell when somebody had been punched in the face before, when them words is just flying out like that and you have no boundaries or no nothing. I could tell when somebody never been punched in the face, right, because you, because you're, you're, you're not, you're not expecting that, you've never been checked like that and life is gonna check you, right. So there's no running around moving funny like that, because I've seen it, you know what I mean and it's happened to me before, not for running my mouth, but I know what that feeling is like. So when you know what that feeling is like, you're a product of it.
Speaker 2:You're not gonna play like that.
Speaker 1:Exactly, I'm a product of it too. So what is life like now with a newborn?
Speaker 2:Man, what are we in? March? January felt like a whole year. You know what I'm saying. It usually feels like that for all of us. It's just really like your heart extends more. I feel like my heart has extended to another person that I think about and care about. It's put another battery in my back. It really has rejuvenated me in a way to like okay, I was already going hard for my oldest son, hendrix. Now I have Lennox here and now I just want to do more Like now I just want to make sure that the foundation of everything is set, you know, being in a good place with his mother, understanding that, trying to, even with my family members, like be good with them, but they could be there for my kids, you know, and build those relationships as well.
Speaker 2:I used to have a really it was a pretty big family and I guess we don't really blend that well in adulthood, not to get into it too much. But I don't know, I don't know what that energy is like, but it's funny, it's fake and I'm not really here for that. So I just leave people where they're at you, feel me, because I got a bigger fist to fry. You know what I'm saying, but I do have a village of friends and family that do care about me and my and my sons and my family. So I'm just grateful that you know God never leaves me without.
Speaker 1:Right, right. So, even with like OK, are there any things that, because you are growing up two black boys in america, are there any things that you want them to be aware about growing up as two black men in america?
Speaker 2:um, I think that's gonna come with time, but I do feel that with my lifestyle and resources and connection, they're going to the best of everything. My mentor, ms Bryant, who was my advisor in boarding school.
Speaker 2:She works at a day school in the city. So she already reached out to me like yo, what's up? Like when we getting the tour for the boys, like I'm saying like you know what I'm saying Like. So there's already people that love me so much that they want to advocate and look out for my boys as well.
Speaker 2:So really with them is going to be the juggling between the the two worlds. You know what I'm saying Like because they're going to be attending predominantly white institutions, you know. But it's also your father's from the South Bronx. Like when we go see your grandmother, we in the Bronx. When we go see your other grandma, we in East Harlem, I mean. So it really is, you know, community service. Maybe Thanksgiving, before we go eat, we at the pantries serving food.
Speaker 2:So really is with them, just being in tune with them and like letting them know like you guys are very, very privileged you know what I'm saying and your mother does well for herself, your father does well for himself. So their reality is going to be totally different from ours. But I feel like, as long as they're grounded in community work and knowing that there's different realities out there, there's different financial circumstances, because they're going to be the scholarship kids. You know what I'm saying Not in the situation I was in. They're going to be like a little more ahead of that. You know what I mean. But it's still like I mean we don't got 70 racks for this school, bro. Like we just don't. You know what I mean. Like that's more than half of our salary. You know what I mean. But it's one of those things where I'm just going to have to stay with them, stay intentional and be like yo, like this is not your reality. You know what?
Speaker 2:I'm saying it's theirs, you know, and don't get too comfortable in it. And just like my mother taught me, like we're going to buy what we can afford, you know what I'm saying. I know you go to these schools and you've seen all of this stuff, but that's their reality, so you have to be comfortable with what you have.
Speaker 1:Right. So that's good that you are in their lives. So how do you feel about single black mothers raising black boys? Do you think they're fully equipped to raise their sons to become men?
Speaker 2:I feel like they could only do their best. There's always going to be a void missing their best. There's always going to be a void missing. You know, a young boy is always going to yearn for the love of his father, that validation. I had my father for 22 years of my life. I lost my dad in 2015.
Speaker 2:And it's nothing like it, like you can't. I'm the opposite. I was close with my pops, not my mother. You know, I've always died to be a mama's boy. It's just not my reality. You know what I'm saying. Like I had a couple mommy issues that I've worked through, still working through, but I didn't know we weren't that close Till he died. You know what I'm saying? Cause it was just like I was just always Anything I had going on, I I just holla at Pops about it, like that was like my first, second, third option, like just holla at Pops about it. And he was always open and giving advice and talking to you and giving game. He'll cry with you, he'll, he'll just be. He was just more empathetic, he was more open, he was more emotionally available, you know, than my mother was. So I think With single mothers they can only do their best and I feel the real plague of the hood is that their relationship with the man didn't work out. And that's totally fine, you feel me.
Speaker 2:I ran into my man the other day. He looked like his dog died. But he hasn't seen his girls in three months and he's well-enabled, working, doing well. Mom's not fucking with him and it's just like, bro, just let me see my girls. And I've never seen him like that and, mind you, he's a fan of the show. We've seen each other for the last. He lives around my neighborhood and we've seen each other for the last two years. I swear to God, I've seen this man like 15 times, maybe 10 or 15 times 13. He was with his kids. I can tell you he he has a speaker, listens to old school, you know ray charles marvin gay, all of that. One of his daughters is a little older who rides a scooter, and his younger daughter is in a wagon that he's pulling and he looks like the happiest.
Speaker 2:That's when I seen him, yeah, I was like you're like yo, you good, bro, and that's the way you hurt a man. You know what I'm saying. So a lot of men, they just trying to wait Until the kid is older To come around and hopefully you know the child's mind Hasn't been so polluted and poisoned Over who you're not, because this is this painter, this picture is being painted by, you could say your enemy, you know what I mean. Like, of course, they're not gonna say Anything positive about you. So the real question is how are women being held accountable For this? It's like a treacherous crime, you know what I mean. Like he's working, he helps, he's around, he wanna be in their life, but then the motherfucker that was nothing to do with them is like you know what. I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So that's not right. Yeah, I know he's walking around just feeling heavy. That's messed up. So you said you had a good relationship With your father.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my dog Love that nigga. Rest in peace. Long live Big Zo.
Speaker 1:How did your relationship with your father Influence how you're raising your sons?
Speaker 2:What is he like? My father is a man's man, like a man that really laid it all on the line, like, like, even through his journey. Um, his first job that I can remember that he had when I was about four or five, that's. This is like 96, 97, um, he was a building porter. So like, there's these, you know, when you have like Two to three, like three buildings, like they're the person that do like the maintenance In between the buildings, so they're throwing out the trash, mopping the floors, handiwork, all of that, right. So there's these, I think I don't know. I know where the buildings are, but I could show you them, but I don't know exactly what the names of them were. But anyway, he was a porter, so he's taking out trash, cleaning the buildings, doing all of that, right.
Speaker 2:Then I want to say, because I went to public school, I went to a pre-K program, kindergarten. Then I went to public school from first to third grade. So I know I was in fourth grade in 2001, because that's when the Twin Towers happened, happened. That was like my second or third day of school or something like that, when 9-11 happened. So fourth grade, when we all went to catholic school. Now, right. So pop started doing tiles. Um, an italian man told him how to do floors and tiling and all of that. And then next, you know like, we go take this enrollment test and be in uniform, and now we're in catholic school. So, from all I can remember, he's a man that was Always progressing in life, putting his best foot forward, investing in his family, right, because the minute he got a bag, he paid for our education. You know what I mean. Like, so that's what I'm saying. Like Me being in public school now as an educator and a dean. It's a foreign concept for me, because I only went there until third grade. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:I was in Catholic school from fourth to 10th grade and then I went to boarding school. So, like, I went from, you know, paid education to now $50,000 boarding schools, right? So my reality of this all is like, this is crazy. Like I look at this situation, at these high schools and these schools, and it's like, wow, like y'all really going through it, like the resources, the educators, the people. Like even let's not even get into that, let's talk about school pride Like pep rallies, right, you know, bringing the community together Like. You know what I mean All of these things that In boarding school we was always doing that, like we was the proudest To go to our school.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean and we were informed about that. We had opportunities to showcase that, making signs at the games. Like I had to get used to all of that Because you know it is. You know it just wasn't normal to me, like you know. But when I went to ohio a catholic boys high school in the bronx you know we had a lot of school pride. You know we wore our school sweaters with our emblem, we had varsity jackets. You know I was on a varsity baseball team, so it's like everything was about school and community.
Speaker 2:You know I'm saying when I went to boarding school that was 10, like 10x that. So when my dad um, just always he was very hard on me, but as I got older he opened up more, so we had. We started to have a lot of real conversations as I got older and I remember when he, when he dropped me off at boarding school and boarding school was my choice, like my parent, that wasn't my parents choice my mentor, bill mitchell, and all the people in my corner were advocating for me to go, and when they showed me it I was like, let's do it. I was scared at first Because you know you have this negative stigma that when you go away to school you did something bad. I mean, if you got sent away, it was where you did something wrong At that age too, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you remember that Everyone was like oh yeah, you messed up or you had to go live with a family member in Pennsylvania and go to high school over there. You know what I mean. So this was a whole positive encounter Of being sent away or going away to school. So my dad told me Yo, like I don't got no money for any mistakes you make here, and just know that, being this skin color he pointed at his hand You're going to have to work three times as hard. And I didn't understand that until like months in because I didn't know what I was getting myself into. You know what I'm saying. I'd never been in a PWI yet. You know what I'm saying. I'm coming from the Bronx. I'm the majority over there. Like everything is black and brown where I'm from, but now I come over here and we talking about no lie. I'll never forget the number. So this number includes students, faculty and people that do the maintenance around campus.
Speaker 1:It's 53 people of color. And what was the and?
Speaker 2:we have 420 students. Oh, okay, yeah, I know, and then the rest of the staff. So this is. I took anybody with a little bit of melanin, so we take Indian people, like anybody with a little that's like 10% of the.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. So this is a whole. And then, mind you, we in a town, right, so we in Suffolk, connecticut, so now it's this town. So even when I go to CVS down the, they be looking at you, right, the supermarket, the little plaza across the street, I'm at the mall. You know what I mean. Even when I go to Springfield, you know which is, you can say, a little more urban. You know, there still ain't many black people there. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So my dad was amazing, you know, and I adored him, you know, and for me I'm just living. I'm living for myself, um, also to honor him, but, you know, to keep his legacy alive. He did so many great things for my family and so many others that's beautiful that you had that foundation.
Speaker 1:Thank you because, like I said, circling back to um what I was saying before, like sometimes, when you're around so many people that are brought up in single parent households and you do speak about like I love my dad, right, it's like I've heard friends say, like I'm jealous of that, like you're so lucky, and it's like you shouldn't be jealous of that. It should like inspire you. You know, I mean To be that when you grow older or have that when you grow older, you know yeah.
Speaker 2:So how that goes into how I'm going to raise my boys and how that inspires me, is a man that sacrificed everything. A man that was up five o'clock in the morning every day. You know what I mean, getting to it. A man that you could see how my life changed. You know him buying a new car every five years. You know us going on family vacations, investing in our education. We wanted for nothing.
Speaker 2:And my father had five kids, you know so my two brothers that he had before my parents had married, and then me and my two other siblings. But we were all set up for success. You know whether they, whatever their choices are, they got to take accountability for those choices. But as far as everything he did to set us up for success, he went until he was sick you know what I mean Like he could no longer, you know. But he gave it his all, had his own little side business called Lorenzo's Tiles, so he's doing tiles on the weekends, cash jobs. You know what I mean and I think the thing that I need to do differently is use more of my mind than the physical. You know what I mean. That's what he wanted for me and that's what I'm able to do. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:It's mind over matter.
Speaker 2:Mind over matter. So I'm more mentally exhausted after all of this than physically. You know what I mean. I don't really have this wear and tear on my body. You know what I mean. I did that, though, at one point, but I've been able to build myself to a point where I'm able to financially sustain myself and my family, and it's not as physically strenuous.
Speaker 1:Right. Do you think having your father in your life contributes to your self-esteem in any way?
Speaker 2:That's a fact, big Zo Zo Jr, even being the son that shares his name. My father had sons before me and they don't have his name. Like I'm him, I'm the chosen one. You feel me, and he's sure of that. You feel me Like I'm not comparing myself to none of my siblings, but shit feeds for itself. You know what I'm saying and I'm Lorenzo for a a reason, and there's a reason that they're not for me and I can't explain it, or I know he explained it to me for me and I'm just happy that I'm him and it does give me that validation, that confidence. Um, I could see a lot of my friends how they struggle in their relationship, even me, with a mother and a father. I struggle in relationships with women, but that's because of the mommy issues, how my mother was, her aggression, her anger. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Or whatever traumas and demons she was battling that had her act the way she did. I mean very nurturing, you know, very we wanted for nothing, I mean, but how you're spoken to counts for a lot. You feel me right. And being able to go to your mother upset, you know, and have her to console you and be there, you know I mean, and um, I got jumped really bad when I was 12 and she didn't do shit, you know, I mean, and and I really lost A lot of confidence In her that day. You know something that she's never gonna acknowledge or really give a fuck about, but for me that was like damn, like I'm really On my own out here. And so, even though she raised us To be independent, I really started To move in on my own time and thank God For teachers and educators and mentors and coaches, and thank God for teachers and educators and mentors and coaches that like I can lean on yeah, like they, let me lean on them and they really gave me the direction and the information to move forward.
Speaker 1:Why do you think people that aren't emotionally stable even have kids?
Speaker 2:Man. I think. Well, from my mother's era she was married. That era is kind of how things go. My dad was the breadwinner, he was the protector, the provider. Mom Dukes probably made a third of what he made, maybe in her two jobs. And even when she had breast cancer and only had to work one job, we were still straight Pops covered more than everything. My mom could have been a stay-at-home mom if she wanted to, but that's not really in her nature. I think sometimes you don't know there's an issue, you don't know that your fart stinks or you don't know that something is not right, especially when maybe excuse me, when maybe. That's how you were brought up. My grandmother softened up later on in life, you know, but she was very, very hard and I was like you know, but it's a woman that I've been through a lot, but now she's much more lighter and sweeter and you know my mom Dukes. I think she's on her way there, but she's not there yet.
Speaker 1:But, um, yeah, therapy that's true, though, like, even when you think of like in their generation, a lot of them were getting married like 25, 26. They was settled down. Yeah, I'm being gracious, but they done found a partner and they were so fast to commit and have kids and I guess that's just like the white picket fence american dream was very like popular. Now that's not really popularized like that. And leading up to this next, do you feel like this younger generation of men find it harder to commit to women?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think there's so much access, you know, to women on social media. You're a DM away from having an interaction with somebody. I feel like with this hot girl, summer era, whatever you want to call it, I feel like women aren't, as I don't know, they shooting. They shot too Within that. I feel like everybody needs to go do some self-discovery, and that has nothing to do with anything sexual. It has to do with finding some inner peace. You know what I mean. Are you okay with yourself? You know what I mean. Can you sit in a room for a couple hours by yourself and you're not afraid of the thoughts that are going to cross your mind? You know what I'm saying. Going to therapy, doing the healing, becoming more aligned with yourself. You know what I mean. So people need to travel, open up your mind. You know what I'm saying. Go through life where.
Speaker 1:A lot of people don't got a passport Right.
Speaker 2:That's a fact, that's a fact.
Speaker 1:It's crazy to me.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying. Get out there. You feel me Like between Jersey, pennsylvania, delaware. You know what I'm saying. You got a lot going on up here. You feel me and you can take a bus, you know, to. I think Ohio is like six hours, seven hours away, something like that. Chicago's not far, even if you take the bus out there, you know. But it's about gaining those experiences and opening up your mind. So I feel like with men, it's cool till it's not cool. You know, to be outside, that's true, because you have to evolve Like. I don't talk down on it because I was once there, but I kind of caught on to things kind of early. I'm very, very happy that I did the way. It was like, yeah, like I work mad hard and I only make like at the time I make like $17 an hour, like I'm in the strip club throwing money, like if I got it like that, like I don't got it like that, like I remember-.
Speaker 2:A lot of people felt that I feel like real shit. Like the day that I used the ATM in Sin City was when I was like this is I can't do this, no more. It's a $10 transaction fee and that shit Like this is not good. Like. So I started to go to the strip club, like leave the debit card in the crib, like once this money's over, it's over. Then I was like I really don't need to be here, no more. It's cool, it's fun. You ain't fucking nothing in here. You know what I mean. So this is pointless. It was fun, cool, I'm done.
Speaker 2:Next thing I started to realize that all that money I was spending out, I could go on trips. So literally between the ages of 23 and 27, I was traveling three, four times a year. You know what I'm saying Going a year. You know I'm saying going places. This is where boarding school came in handy. I'm calling friends that live in the bahamas like yo, I'm trying to come out these dates, I'm staying at day cribs, I'm just buying flights, places, and I'm staying with all my friends, all my international friends that live all over the world. I'm saying so. I'm going to bermuda, the bahamas, dominican republic, my friends everywhere. You know I'm saying so, I utilized that time to get out there and I was like you know what, um, my money is better spent on experience than a one night where I don't remember nothing, or I was drinking till I was fucked up, and you know I'm saying it wasn't fun, no more, but it was fun at one point.
Speaker 2:Popping bottles I was. I was popping them shits like two on the minimum type shit. You know I'm saying my 21st birthday. We popped 15 of them, shits Like two on the minimum type shit. You know what I'm saying my 21st birthday. We popped 15 of them shits Like you know what I'm saying. We had a little deal in there, but still, though, you know what I mean, you spend money on frivolous things, but I get it, though, but are we investing?
Speaker 2:Is your kid living a better life than you did? I feel like no child should live, should get anything less than anything you got. So I know I was very blessed. You know what I mean Humble beginnings, but pops really got on his, so my kids ain't getting nothing less than I had, and I owe them even more than that. Right you feel me, because I'm going to get it earlier. You feel me, and I'm going to have to do less to get more.
Speaker 1:Do less to get more. Do you feel like that also just living, moving and living with a bigger purpose helps you to stay more aligned?
Speaker 2:Hell yeah, you know, once you find your purpose and you push and pee, you know purpose, positivity, productivity you know it changes everything Because I know my why.
Speaker 2:I know what I'm moving for. You know what I mean, even in my day job. I love my day job. What I'm moving for, you know what I mean, even in my day job. I love my day job. I love being a dean. You know what I mean and it's something that when my nonprofit Slice of Excellence you know we trade with Pork Hearts for Pizza I was on the outside looking in, even though I was helping schools. I'm still on the outside because I'm an organization. So I needed to actually be rooted and grounded in education, right? So I'm not just talking about it, I'm actually in there and you know, you care. Everybody wants to say something from the outside looking in. So how do you infiltrate the system from the inside? So now I'm in the doe.
Speaker 2:I'm seeing everything firsthand every day that is not for the week, it's not I don't know how you're doing, definitely not. It's passion, it's love. I love those kids, like those kids know I do not play about them, I adore them and I see how, how god has made everything full circle for me. You know how. He's given me a platform to talk about it on conversation with zo, but he's also given me a platform to actually do the community work in slice of excellence. So there's no cap in my rap as a kid to say you know, this is all getting done. You know, and every day is an opportunity to see like a life experience that I get to talk to a kid through. You know we got a baseball player Shout out to my guy, dyrus, amazing kid and I can talk to him from experience as being a guy that was a top athlete in high school and wanted to go to college and wanted to go to the pros, which are all the things that I did. You know I've been able to do those things in my life.
Speaker 2:So, just like yo, like next year a totally different ball game when you get to college, you know I'm saying, and the kid that you know is going through with his mom. So like yo, bro, like the opportunity is right here in school, you get it done. Here you going to have more control of your life.
Speaker 2:And you're going to be open to education is going to open doors for you. You know what I mean, because I didn't choose my school. My school didn't choose me. I chose that school. I mean, I didn't. I was a project manager in construction doing fine. I could have stood there, rode the wave and fine, but I whole. You know, even though shout out to Latia Construction, I adore this company. We was doing pizza parties in their buildings, so we were a developer, but we also had a property management company and they let me do pizza parties in their apartment in their buildings in the Bronx, which was mad cool you know, but that gave me a feeling that I wanted even more of, because this once a month ain't cutting it.
Speaker 2:I'm going to see these kids in hybrids, happy as hell. We get to know each other. It's more and more kids every time, families coming through, and it's like damn once a month, though, so I reached out to shout out to Ms Bruno. I reached out to Bruno, and it's like yo, like are there any openings at your school? And I ain't really had to look far. She's like yeah, they're looking for an assistant dean, and boom, it happened.
Speaker 1:And I feel like it's also, like it's a skill as a man to be able to connect with children, because naturally, children are going to gravitate more towards, like you know, the feminine energy, the nurturing energy. So, as a male, like that's like a plus, looking like outward, like as a female.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Because it's like, okay, okay, he's somebody you can trust right he's somebody that's protective, he's somebody that you know. It's a good sign when kids like you, when kids mess with you, and I feel like also everybody should have that, just that training, even if it's from when you're young to just just cater to kids or like babysit, because that's like I feel like that's a skill, that's a necessity you need to have, because it doesn't. It takes a village, you know Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think with my kids it's a good balance knowing that I'll smack the shit out of them.
Speaker 2:but I'll also give you a hug, yeah, yeah yeah, I'll give you a hug Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we, I give you that. It's knowing when Tough love is needed. Yeah, cause sometimes you just need to be heard. Like you can see it, they late, they going through With they mother, they got to school Two hours and it's like In that moment, are you okay, you alright? Do you need anything? Did you eat? That's another thing. You know the food insecurities. You know what I mean. Making sure they ate Like you. Good, did you have breakfast? Like you need anything? Because you know Mom Duke's left To work before they got up To go to school. Like, so they're 16 now, so mom, their parents is like Yo, you got it, you gonna figure it out, but you know they don't have it all figured out. There may be nothing in the food to make breakfast with, or you ain't got $5. So it's like you know, having those Nutri-Grain bars, having those little snacks that they could grab and bottle waters, yeah, yeah, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Because that also causes chaos too. When you hungry and you're going through it and you're agitated, you know what I mean. So just trying to find multiple ways to be a resource for the kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I feel like you learn a lot through kids too. Oh yeah. You learn a lot about yourself. If you snap on a kid, you're like, damn, I need to check what's going on up here. Yeah, I need to take a step back and just check my energy first, right.
Speaker 2:It means a lot to a kid. A staff member and a kid had a couple words the other day, but it was big to see them have a conversation and apologize to each other. And I'm sure it meant more to the kid To see a staff member apologize to him. You know what I mean, because normally it's like Well, I'm the adult, what am I apologizing to you for? You know what I mean. But how else do we teach men accountability, young men accountability, if we're not taking accountability ourselves, if we're not modeling who it is that we want them to be?
Speaker 1:and sorry, no one's too big for a sorry yeah, and it also makes them feel like they have a voice and they're seen you know it does um going to your podcast now. Conversations with zoe yes ma''am you all right? So for Mind Over Matter, right.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:A part of me started this because I just want to have like an archive of my mindset.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:That my kids and future generations can go back to, to look back on, to see how I was as a person, how I thought Right, and that's even through the people I have, and just you know the conversations.
Speaker 2:We're an extension of you.
Speaker 1:Right, right. So how does that play a part into, like your podcast? Does that, like ever play a role? And when you're recording like my kids are going to see this?
Speaker 2:Hell, yeah, you know, because I want them to see. I don't want to. It's a dangerous thing to hide people from something Because once you see it for the first time, it's either going to positively or negatively affect you. You know what I mean. So I don't want them to. I want them to know the real. I want them to see that there's different walks of life, that everyone deserves respect, everyone deserves to be heard and I don't. I mean I'm sure 20, 20, 44 is going to be totally different from our reality.
Speaker 2:You know, because in 20 years I'm 52 you know I mean so and then my kids are going to be in their 20s and 30s, so it's like this is going to be a whole different reality, you know so, for for me, um, I started conversation with zo to just show kids how to embrace themselves, build confidence, be cool with whatever lane that they choose, especially staying out the way. Like there's this false, this false advertising that if you're not gang, you're pussy, or if you're not this, you're that, or you're soft, or you're less than. And all that shit is bullshit Because it doesn't transfer, it doesn't translate to real life. It's not real. You know it is real, but it's not real in the sense that we can't go buy a crib with it. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2:It's not tangible. It's not tangible, right? Yeah, it's destructive. It's destructive, right, and it's also not for everyone, right? So I knew that it wasn't for me and I was very fortunate enough to have conscious people around me that respected my decision to stay out the way and they embraced that. So I want to show kids and I want to be, I want to validate them in a positive way and show them that it's okay to stay out the way, that it's okay to respect your parents, it's okay to love school and education and love reading. Right? They say you want to hide information, put it in a book, right, because we're not promoting literacy and literature and reading. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:So for me, I think of that and I also just think of giving someone out there that little piece of confidence that may be missing, whether from talking about sports therapy, the Bronx, any hood in America. You know, just trying to shoot your shot, even something like you know we're at 187 episodes. You know trying, wow, like it don't hurt to try. You know, the worst thing you can do is not try. That's big.
Speaker 1:Thank you. That's big and a lot of people don't make it past episode eight as they say Mm-hmm, okay, that also goes back to like the lack of portrayal too, and the lack of portrayal of black men in positive ways in media, and do you think that plays a role in how they are? Like when you say it's normalized for them many of them to be in gangs and to oh man, do you think the media plays a to be in?
Speaker 2:gangs and to oh man.
Speaker 1:Do you think the media plays a role in it?
Speaker 2:We was just it's funny, we and one of my students was talking about this literally yesterday and you know he he's in the streets, right, but he also has a pretty solid foundation at home, so it's not like he has to really dive in and lose himself, because when he goes home, his reality doesn't portray that. You know what I mean. There's nothing about his home that says like, oh, this is what we're doing, you know what I mean. So, but the people he hangs out with, right, that's the kind of time they're on, right, then that's what he's thinking about. Then he's on YouTube and whatever he was watching, and all he's watching is drill videos and all that I know a couple of those.
Speaker 2:That's all you're thinking about all day. So when that time do come, you're so impulsive and angry and aggressive, because that's all that's on your mind.
Speaker 1:Mind you, they probably come from a great family, Great family.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. So not everybody had to bust a gun, you feel me? There's people that had to out of necessity. There's different eras. I mean I'm sure you know Bronx, brooklyn, new York City in the 80s was crazy. You really had to go clap some shit up if you had to.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:For survival. For survival, you know what I mean. A lot of this isn't for survival, it's for clout, you know what I mean. So for me, a lot of what the social media portrays is for the weak minded. You know what I mean. So if you don't got nobody showing you and if you don't have nobody showing you, nothing different, then you're kind of just going to go with the crowd, right, but with that being said, right, with anybody telling you not to do something. You better have an alternative, you better have some resources to do something else so I can get you a job somewhere. Facts so if I tell you to get off the block, it's because I have another way for you and I can do that. A lot of the block it's because I have another way for you and I can do that. A lot of people just talking and don't have another way, so that's just talk at the end of the day. So, whatever you trying to get somebody to do, have another way, have an alternative.
Speaker 1:Do you think like Drill, rap, music and, just you know, like reality tv, even um? Do you think that actually influences them in any way, or do you think it's just like an art form?
Speaker 2:I think it's an art okay and I think it can influence you. But, once again, if you don't have no direction, if you don't have no direction, if you don't have nobody showing you that you are more you know what I'm saying than that, and if you're not in this place where you can just enjoy it for what it is in music, then that's when it's going to infiltrate your mind and it's going to take you places that you're not even ready to go. Right, in our era, you know this whole. You never wanted to be associated With certain things, especially being a snitch or a rat. Now it's so common Because they letting everybody in. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:I'm a sidewalk nigga, true, and told King of it Love it. What do you mean by that? What's that? They make the streets and the sidewalks right, it's the porch. The streets and the sidewalk Technically right. So you know how.
Speaker 2:Now the saying is oh, I've been off the porch, right. Well, think of a porch. A porch is right in front Of your house, right, that's two levels Before the streets. But there's people that never got off the porch, right. There's people that was just there. Oh, okay, you get me right. Yeah, I get it. Now. I'm on the sidewalks. I'm right next to the streets, yeah, but I'm on the sidewalks though. Yeah, you, still safe, right, it get a little spooky sometimes, yeah, you know people got to cross the street, you know, yeah, sometimes you're. But we're going to cross paths just because we so happen to.
Speaker 2:But my intention leaving my house was never to do harm to anybody. Harm happened to me just because Kazuti are living in the South Bronx. But I never left my house with that energy for nobody. You know what I mean. So drill music with that energy is destruction and disaster, right. But if you don't have to live for that and you can just enjoy it for the awful that it is, then it's just music. You know what I'm saying. I heard Fuck the Police, madtime. It never did nothing to me. You know what I'm saying. I enjoyed it because it was strong. It was powerful, it was black, it was proud. That's what it did for me. For another person who's maybe vibrating at a lower frequency, that may have been like I'm going to snuff a cop today.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. So that was their mindset. But I feel like as long as we're validating our youth, our black men and queens, we're able to show them a different way and live by that too. So everything that I'm doing, from my nonprofit to trying to talk life into these children every day at the school to my occupation is all centered around youth development.
Speaker 1:That's beautiful, thank you, and like you said, back to like your circle. Is that something like you see around you, a lot Is like black men that sound like that.
Speaker 2:that are in my circle is L. I gravitated towards people that I felt comfortable around and I quickly let people go because that was causing me harm. I'm saying people, people do you dirty because they can't get to your friend. I'm saying people do you dirty because they can't get to your friend. So you know, whoever they get first, anybody affiliated with that person. You know what I'm saying. Like they say guilty by association, well, you could be guilty by affiliation. So anybody that I like, I like to go visit my friends in different neighborhoods, go to parties in different neighborhoods. So if you say, well, I can't go to Gun Hill, I'm not good over there, well, we're not going to be friends, no more, because I want to go to that party.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. So early in life 14, 15, if that's how you was moving. I was moving, I was distancing, I wasn't even giving you a chance, because that almost happen to me, right? People did pull out things and we got jumped and many and you know, I see my man Somebody put a gun to his temple. You know what I'm saying. So I can't If that's the life you in I can't be around you and I didn't give people A second, third and fourth chance To prove me, to paint a picture they already painted for me. So I'm good on that. And that don't make me pussy, that don't make me soft.
Speaker 2:I'm 31, 32, I'm still alive, I'm well, I'm educated, I'm fly, I'm a father and I'm here, right, because that's the goal. Right, we got to see life through. So, like I said, a lot of people are on Well, I said this earlier to a kid, but I, you haven't seen life Come full circle yet. You're on this side of the circle, right? So your feelings are all on this side. You haven't seen it all make sense yet because you don't know who you're gonna need someday, right, you may, you may feel like that person is irrelevant, that teacher is irrelevant, but you never know when you're gonna need a recommendation, or that teacher may know your college professor or you know I mean like you guys aren't thinking like that because you guys like well, I don't fuck with them, right, right, but I mean don't write them off Right, especially when you're being so emotional about something you're supposed to be doing Right.
Speaker 2:So there's facts in the emotions. Let's just stick to the facts.
Speaker 1:What's your proudest moment as a dad?
Speaker 2:My proudest moment as a dad man. Just every day that I come home. You know what I'm saying, like Even today. You know the love that I pour into my son. I was just on. I was on the phone with his mother, I was on my way home and he's I see her FaceTiming me so I pick up the FaceTime. He's like I love you, dad. You know what I mean. We didn't even say hi to each other, nothing. So just that love that he has for me and how excited he is for me and just being a part of his life, like I really love being his dad, like more than anything.
Speaker 2:Like you know, and even me being here, I don't really go out. I only do things that are going to move the business and the culture forward, and so I don't really go out like that. You know I'm saying how I find other ways to see my friends and we play on softball teams together, so that's kind of like I hang out and we drink damn bullshit, but like the club scene going out, like I'm only doing things that are for my non-profit, for my podcast, and that's about it. I want to be with my guys as much as I can, my boys and what's that overall vision for my podcast? And that's about it. I want to be with my guys as much as I can my boys.
Speaker 1:And what's that overall vision for your podcast?
Speaker 2:Man. You know I want us to be. You know, on Netflix, hbo, you know some kind of daytime, late night show. You know my guests come from all walks of life. You know you might see a pastor From all walks of life. You know you might see a pastor. You might see a porn star. You might see a rapper. You might see a professional athlete.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you never know, but it's gonna be A great conversation, it's gonna touch somebody's soul, it's gonna do something For somebody, and I feel like A lot of this stuff that goes viral With the women In the adult entertainment world Is the fact that Nobody wanna hear Something wholesome Because it's coming from them. But are they lying? Is it a fact or is it? You know it's a fact. What they talk about, you know what I'm saying? It's just that people Feel like, well, look what you do for a living. So, but, like I said, and shout out to the Brooklyn Basement Podcast, we grew up with people who sold crack, like we grew up with people that did Things that you could say are worse and we cool with them. So how am I here judging how you get your bread Once again, if I'm not giving you another alternative, I'm not putting money in your pocket. So what I'm here to?
Speaker 1:judge you for. So how do you like even vet the people you got coming on? Is it a feeling.
Speaker 2:It's a feeling that episode just started Clicking in my head, like my phone is charged over there. But I got Google Docs on my phone. I just be in front of people Just taking notes, like you know what I'm saying. I just start jotting things down and like it's just a feeling, it just comes to me and I'm just happy that it still happens, and me and people From different walks of life. We got an episode With List Two times Two acts Coming out tomorrow. She's a A Muslim rapper. Well, she's an artist, but she's Muslim. She came out With a Ramadan album. She's in Ramadan Right now. So you know, just having her come out At nine o'clock On Monday, you know, so she could be able To eat After sundown, come do the podcast and you know her talk about cause. You know she is covered.
Speaker 1:You know what.
Speaker 2:I'm saying so just um. What did she say? Modest, feminine fashion. You know what I'm saying Very beautiful woman, but more of elegance in the way she carries herself. And she spoke about, you know, um feminism versus femininity, you know? You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:She was popping her shit that day, you know. So that right there, when she sent me her info over, I listened to some of her music. It just started to flow, it just started to get a feeling through it. Even people like, even people that I admire, like Jim Jones, you know, interviewing Jim Jones, which is like this is a New York icon you know what I'm saying A rap icon.
Speaker 2:And how could you interview Jim Jones without talking about fashion? And I was a part of that era of fashion when we was wearing pails and biggies and merms and Pradas and Maureys, and you know what I mean Like more reason. You know what I mean, like that, right there he was gonna engage in. I knew he was, you know 100%, just because that you see people wearing Ava Rex's and all that stuff again now. But if you was around in 2004, 2010,. You know the whole American Eagle era rugby polo cardigans, cargo pants, bootcut jeans, they solos Like it was a hell of a time, you know. So I'm glad that I got to live through an era and also talk to a person that you know really was outside then I was young, but he was really outside.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And shout out to Dice Paco, who made that happen for me.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay. Is there any last words? You want to leave the people off with?
Speaker 2:Man, you know the worst thing you could do is not try and I feel like. You know, like Kobe said, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take and for the youth man it's going to be a wild summer. You know people hungry out there. I'm saying, if you got a scholarship, you need to stay your ass in the house. You need to go get your workout in, you need to go to cookouts with your parents, you need to do shit during the day with your friends. After 10 o'clock you don't got no business outside and it just is what it is Like. You need to make it to college and come back. You know what I'm saying. Even when you come back, Be selective. It's totally okay to be selective With the times and the people you want to be around and the places you want to be.
Speaker 2:Not every function is for me. I know that I'm a public figure. I can't be everywhere like that. You feel me. I just can't. It's not conducive to my well-being. You feel me and I'd rather go somewhere, show love and leave. You feel me. There's a lot of things that happen and I wasn't there long enough To see it unfold. Read energy the energy ain't right. Go home. Fuck, I don't give a fuck. If you drove three hours, you ain't feeling it. Something don't feel right Leave, and that's that you feel me. So be selective, Protect your energy and stay on the sidewalks and stay in your lane I want to finish y'all off with this too if you think you can, you're right.
Speaker 1:If you think you can't, you're also right right period. I read that in a book on my way here fire so thank you. If you reached the end of another episode, shout out to you big up to you, like I appreciate you, like you listen to the end, like, oh my god, all the way to the end, like you really love yourself, like I love that for you. Thank you, zo, for joining me. It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1:You blessed this podcast, thank you thank you and yeah, make sure you tell a friend to tell a friend, to tell a friend mother that it's mind over matter. Baby, yo, yo, you got my dream guest. You know who? 19 Kids, 19.
Speaker 2:Kids, yeah. Man that was a.
Speaker 3:Woof was here for that one. That was a crazy one too.
Speaker 2:That's wild. That was super dope when I got that email. I was like oh hell yeah, we making this shit happen, you.