Transforming or Collecting? When Spiritual Work Becomes Addiction

What if the way we’ve been taught to pursue happiness is actually keeping us disconnected from it?

In this thought-provoking conversation, Dr. Sandra Marie sits down with Philippe Brouillard, athlete, researcher, teacher, and co-author of Rethinking Happiness, to explore the intersection of quantum physics, consciousness, spirituality, and emotional transformation.

Together, they unpack some of the biggest questions many people feel but struggle to articulate:

• Why do so many people keep chasing healing, happiness, or spiritual growth and still feel stuck?
• What happens when spirituality becomes another form of self-improvement, consumption, or performance?
• Are we truly transforming, or just collecting more language, tools, and inspiration?
• What if happiness is not about pleasure, achievement, or external success, but something much deeper?

Philippe shares his unconventional path from elite athletics and performance culture into deep spiritual inquiry, and eventually into scientific research around consciousness, identity, and lived transformation. The conversation challenges surface-level spirituality and explores what it might actually mean to change how we see ourselves, our lives, and the reality we participate in creating.

This episode is expansive, provocative, and at times deeply confronting. It invites listeners to reflect on the difference between quick fixes and real inner work, between spiritual language and spiritual embodiment, and between seeking externally and understanding more deeply what it means to live consciously.

🌿 A Few Big Questions This Episode Raises

• Are we looking outside ourselves for what can only be developed within?
• Is transformation really about fixing ourselves—or about changing how we understand reality?
• Have we confused spiritual growth with collecting tools, labels, and experiences?
• What does it mean to embody insight instead of just talking about it?

🔗 Connect with Philippe

Learn more about Philippe and his work:
 VitaQuantum.com

Transcript

speaker-0 (00:03.084)
Enjoy this Wild Soul gathering production. I'm Dr. Sanda Marie. Pour yourself a really tall glass of spiritual curiosity and join me for the happy hour for the Spiritually Curious podcast. In the spirit of happy hour, cheers to some new insights, peace, revitalization, and perhaps an aha moment that may change your life. Dr. Sanda Marie here. And today we're joined by Philip Roulard, athlete, researcher, teacher.

and the co-author of Rethinking Happiness, Unlock the Secrets of Spirituality and True Freedom Through Quantum Physics. Philip's work lives at the intersection of quantum physics, neuroscience, and emotional transformation. He's known for helping people move beyond inspiration into real observable change, the kind that show up in how we think, relate, decide, and how we live. Today we'll be discussing how spiritual ideas actually translate into daily life.

Welcome to the show, Philip.

speaker-1 (01:03.736)
Thank you, Sandra.

speaker-0 (01:05.666)
Let's get started. Philip, you have trained as a high-level athlete before entering consciousness research. How did elite sport shape the way you understand discipline, identity, and human potential today?

speaker-1 (01:20.012)
I bring a lot of times to the athlete world and to the business world because I've been in both worlds. I've also MBA as a my undergrad, if I want to say, because I don't have an undergrad study. In the sports industry, in the athlete world, and we're talking right now and the Olympics are there. And most people, it's interesting because they have coaches on different levels. They have a mindset coach. have like.

technical cordial coach, they have a coach for so many different things. In our life, usually we don't have a coach. We're like, okay, we want a successful life. I want to be happy. What life? I don't know. And I'm trying to figure things out by myself.

speaker-0 (01:57.966)
true.

speaker-1 (02:08.622)
So it's funny in business, the same thing, most successful entrepreneurs or like big CEOs as mentors and like they're a group of people living in those things. Again, in our personal life, we don't have.

speaker-0 (02:20.654)
For you, was there a defining moment that bridged the world of performance into the exploration of consciousness? Or was this curiosity always there for you?

speaker-1 (02:30.574)
So curiosity was always there. So if I tell a little short story, at five years old, I said to my parents, je vais changer le monde, meaning I'll change the world. At 14, I'm like, I want to quit school because school is meaningless. Even if I was top IQ, for me, it didn't make any sense. And I'm like, if nobody can answer, why are we learning this or what life is, then I'll try to figure out by myself. So my dad was a medical doctor and also had spirituality. So I already had those two worlds.

but it's like, let's do this, let's learn this, but like, why? And nobody answered that why. So I went to search in sports, I was like, maybe I'll find answers. Like I was already in that world of like extreme things. I love those. So like I was a mogul skier, so there's part of it in the snow and part of it midair. And when I was midair for me, this is where like silence was there, like complete connection. And like it was that flow state in those moments. But was like, hmm.

Finally, like it does not make sense. Even like when my coach were like, you shouldn't do this way. It's like, it's our way. I'm like, meh, I love being in the air. I'm like this flow, but they didn't want, so I quit skiing and then moved to drugs and trying to find different experiences, different feelings. Then find it there too. It was just a lasting moment. And then when you finish it's finished. Then I turn really more deep down in spirituality, retreats, healing, therapy, like energy work and like.

It made sense, but still that feeling of alignment and deepness was not there. So like maybe that's where everybody's tells us in business and having success. So I have all this massive functional miss in practice, new success, impact, recognition, everything was there, but inside was not still there. So that's where I might turn myself to the only place I didn't search was like the science. So quantum physics and understanding consciousness and that's

My doctorate specifically, my thesis is specifically understanding like what life is about. It's really when I started teaching and seeing the shift in my student, I was like, okay. So we're going somewhere, which I never tapped before. I was kind of an athlete and researching something, but I was not finding it. And I searched and mostly everybody were telling us where it is, spiritual tradition doesn't tell that's how we should study life, but it's.

speaker-1 (04:54.638)
It's interesting how we do it today.

speaker-0 (04:56.558)
I'm just curious because we're in the heart of the Winter Olympics right now. Is it something that you totally stepped away from or do you still enjoy it from a spectator aspect but see it differently than you did when you were younger?

speaker-1 (05:12.62)
I don't think I'll watch anything during the Olympics before I would watch them, especially like the discipline. So I've seen the result, like mogul skiing is still a Canadian, he finished second, even if like we call him the king in his discipline. But I'm like, I didn't watch the run. didn't watch the, I was like, okay. So I don't have this feeling because we're, as human being today, we're trying to find meaning in different things. It could be like sports, could be work. It could be relationship.

could be anything, but we're looking still outside of

speaker-0 (05:45.75)
Yeah, I would agree. It's interesting to me, and I hear this from a lot of people and I've personally experienced it myself, things that earlier in my life that I really enjoyed and were a heart of like my social life. So American football was always a big thing for me. Live and die for it. And now if I watch, I don't even think that I watched one game last year. It shocks people. What I realized was that was a metric for me on my

transforming in my involvement because what was so important to me at that time no longer really truly interests me. But for you, your work bridges the quantum physics and neuroscience emotional transformation. Where do people most commonly misunderstand this intersection when they first encounter your work?

speaker-1 (06:35.662)
I would say like, if we go back in time, not too far fetched, we have like the big philosopher. were like, who's the high and I am. It was a very interesting question. Now we don't have those questions anymore. We're not trying to understand what life is. We're like, oh, Sandra, you have an issue because of this in your past, let's do therapy. It could be like breath work. could be like Reiki, could be anything, but we're trying to fix you. And if we look.

From Buddhism to Hinduism to the Jewish Kabbalah to the hermetic lineage from the Egyptian or to the shamanism perspective, they're never talking about therapy. They're saying like going back to God or getting back to oneness or it's about, and the Buddhist, it's about removing the suffering and the main reason we suffer is because we're attached or we don't understand what life is.

They're not talking about like treating you or getting things fixed. Cause at the moment we're thinking about those things, we're still going back to this duality. That's like good and evil, bad and good and beautiful and ugly. We're living in that duality, which is a human construct. But when we talked about the spiritual tradition, they're talking about oneness. So just raising who you are. And that, think that's one of the big missing piece. We're trying to find a quick fix on different things. And like if you, the number

one books most of the time or like the seven tips of this, do this in 15 minutes. It's like always like the easy list, less time. But do you think like the biggest master of this world are trying to find the quick fix, the easy thing? It does not make sense. And even if you go back to sports, if you want to be the best and master the discipline, you'll need to do the work. You'll need to sit down. You'll need to reflect.

Now we don't do this with our life. We want the easy thing. And today, I think the number one thing that's growing so much is the psychedelics. You do nothing and you grab a pill. So we did the same thing with pharma. People are moving to supplements and lifestyle, but we're doing the same thing now in spirituality. Why do you, you don't want to work? Why you think it's the easy fix, the elegant of fixing? We know easy fix. And so you got a problem with your house.

speaker-1 (08:59.542)
Like water leakage, you're doing the cheapest person with the easy fix. Do you think it's going to last for something or you won't get issues? It's like, know this in life, but we still hack this way in different things because just simple.

speaker-0 (09:13.002)
I love that you talk about the hack. At the end of the day, there is a 10 billion plus dollar spiritual industry out there also, which is such a disconnect with what the work and the premise of it is. So let's talk about your book, Rethinking Happiness and Unlock the Secrets of Spirituality and True Freedom through Quantum Physics. What question about happiness were you trying to answer?

speaker-1 (09:40.686)
So the way the book started is my dad as a medical doctor, so he's retired, he wrote three books. If I translate the title, the first one was Rethinking Health, the other one was Rethinking Pain, and the other one was It's a Question of Life and Death. So as a medical doctor and spirituality, acupuncturist and so on, was like, I think I want to write the fourth book on like the psychology, but not necessarily like positive life or happiness. So he was like around that space and I was like,

That's exactly what my thesis is. He's like, oh yeah, it's true. So we co-authored the book on that perspective. So he's been in spirituality for more than I'm born. I'm 43 and he's been when I'm born, he was already in spirituality. So we bring a lot of experience of his experience. Even if I have a lot, we still have more than me. So the first thing is what is happiness? So we're going to give you the checklist of the 21 things to be happier, but like,

What is happiness? It's something we don't really question. Because if we ask the question to the spiritual, we're home from Buddhism to Hinduism to all the name I've mentioned earlier, even from the Christianity, they're saying in some ways the goal of life is happiness. And at the same time, they're saying the goal of life is enlightenment, most of them. So you're like, is there a synonym or different ways? And the way my teachers

mention what happiness was an expansion of consciousness and it's funny because When we look the definition of in the dictionary not all but a lot of dictionary says that and the definition of an happiness There's pleasure in it, but we never say I want a more pleasureful life, but I want a happier life But then we get it and pleasure so it's when you're gonna get the next level or the new car this new retreat or

It's mostly about external things that will make me happy, but this is what we know is pleasure. So we confuse the two and even corporation governments tell you, we'll sell you happiness, but it's called pleasure, but we're going to tell you it's happiness. And for me, I believe I don't have a scientific proof for that perspective, but why anxiety, depression, mental health is such an arise today is because we're pursuing something that we can never attain.

speaker-1 (12:07.882)
And even some studies, they're saying like the only thing we can guarantee on happiness is the pursuit of it. Then it's like, how can we never attain it? It's funny because spiritual tradition talks about it. It's possible to be attained and it's not something that we cannot become. So if we cannot ever attain, can you attain pleasure in reality? No, because every time you touch it, it disappears. Now we know, for example, the main hormone is the dopamine.

I mean, when you get it, get a huge, it's the new trendy like things with everybody talks about dopamine today. But it's like when you get it, you lose it. You get it, you want more. And the more you want it, the more you get used to it, then the more you need some. It's like a drug. It's the same thing. It's an addiction.

speaker-0 (12:53.134)
For you, did writing the book change the definition of happiness or I love how you talk about the interplay between the happiness and the pleasure and almost the manipulation that we all experience.

speaker-1 (13:06.262)
Writing the book was not for me the, the ha ha moment, for example, because this is what my research thesis is about. So it was kind of reporting part of what I've researched and having like very intense conversation with my dad of like, we should do it this way, not this way. So I was, even if he was published with the biggest publishing house in Quebec, Canada, where it got published initially, I'm like, I don't want to go that route because I know they're to maybe censor this or remove this from the book. like, I'm going. So I want.

the self-publishing perspective, we were arguing a lot. I'm like, we should say it this way. No, we should say it this way. So I think that's where the most challenge was there. But all of what I'm bringing in the book comes specifically from my thesis and my doctorate to research. So the book was kind of more like a writing part, not the thesis, which is different reality. The way we bring things from the book, from the thesis, but it's bringing concept that I teach and where I see the shift.

speaker-0 (14:04.908)
Would you say that this book, then from your perspective, is more for the skeptic, the seeker, or a person who's honestly exhausted by both of those things?

speaker-1 (14:15.532)
I think it's a mix of those three ways because I've talked to skeptics, which would like, I don't want anything about it, but then, there's science to it. So let's read about it. So we talking to the left brain for a lot of people, but at the same time, we talk about the spirituality. So we talk about the right brain and it's really when we bring the left brain and right brain, we get a big impact because I would say, sadly, we all went to school.

So we kind of destroy our right brain, which is the intuitive, the feminine, the emotional, the creative. then we like school is about left brain, the masculine, it's about logic, it's about understanding, not questioning things and so on. So when we bring the two together, we bring something different. I think that the biggest challenge in today's, I would say spiritual world is that we're not really spiritual being as the way we practice them.

That's the word that New Age perspective is like, we're trying to be spiritual, but I would bring a lot of time that the word of oneness in spirituality, everybody believe in oneness, but nobody knows what it means. Really. If you fully believe in oneness, then you want to manifest something for yourself is because you think you're separate, but nobody talks about this. It's like, we have so much good intention. So for example, if we took up the Hinduist, they read text, sacred texts.

They're going to read it, they're going to meditate on it. The Buddhist does the same thing. Then they're going to do different breathing. They're going to do different meditation. would do... So it's about a whole reality. Now we take different parts and we don't look at the whole and then like, we talk about oneness, but we think, do things separately. And then we think like we evolved. I think there's a very paradoxical perspective of what spirituality is because people were...

diving in spirituality. Now we're like very shallow perspective of what it is. And then we do this retreat, this training, this book, this meditation, but it's not like a full integration of who you are as a divine being. we're like human doing and trying to find different technique, different tools and finding the quick way, the quick, easy way, the tricks and by whacking is one, but now we have the spiritual lacking that that's what we are looking for. And we have so much modalities today is like from

speaker-1 (16:36.514)
from quantum device to different lights, to different pendants, different crystals. Those things are good. But it's the same thing. was like, I'm going to use red glasses because lights and the blue light is wrong. But I'd go outside with them even if the sunlight is there, which is not understanding the concept of what it is, the quantum biology of photons and electrons and so on, but like doing this because it's a trend. So we're trying to find the easy things. It's like using the

Infrared device now. It's a big trend of infrared device for healing, but it's only spectrum. It's only part of the whole spectrum of infrared. Go at sunrise and sunset, you'll get the whole spectrum. It's free. It doesn't cost anything. yeah, but I'm too tired. Yeah, because you're not adapting to the sun. Human being is part of nature. We're trying to use different things which are man-made, which so it's not nature. And then we're not questioning how we live. It's kind of weird.

We're challenging our life today and this coming, the paradox of progress where like we have more information as ever. We have the highest level of comfort as ever. We have the highest accessibility to anything as ever, but we're sicker and unhappier than ever. there's like.

speaker-0 (17:52.234)
And it's interesting what you said about the sunrise and the sunset and talking to people, our spiritual growth, our evolution, it really is a simple process. We do have these things free and readily available to us. You know, the sun provides so much and especially at those times of the day. But it's almost like there's a mentality that if I don't pay money for it, it doesn't have value. And that's just, it's so interesting to me that

There's being a lot of energy put to shift out of that and we'll see where that goes. For me, when we talk about transformation, I would expect to see a change in how we love, how we work, how we choose. Where do you, in your work, most consistently see evidence of that happening?

speaker-1 (18:43.532)
The thing for me that's created the bigger shift in that perspective, it's really understanding how things work. That's why I would bring different concepts in quantum physics. For example, the main concept that a lot of people start to hear about is the observer effect. So we know when we draw an electron, so it's a quantum particle, if we name it this way, it's not really a particle, but it's easier to name in that sense.

So we throw this electron in space and the electron in reality is just like a cloud. It does not really exist. If you never tried to grab a cloud, it's not possible. It's just everywhere, but it's nowhere at the same time. Until somebody looked at it, the particle is still in space and then when you look at it, then the particle becomes something material. It's become something tangible in some ways. So there's this meaning that the observer is the one creating reality.

And then you're like, okay, it's an electron, but our body is made of billions of electrons and photons and like all those little quantum particles. And then we would apply this to different experience in human being. see the same kind of results. So then if we're the one creating our reality, then everything that happens to ourself, we're the one creating it. I like to be a bit extreme in my example, because this is where sometimes we need a little shot.

We need to have something that's challenged our perspective. can reprogram our brain, our perspective when we have something that challenges us. In neuroscience, they call it the murmur effect. So if you're the one creating your reality, that means even when you get a cancer, you're the one creating your cancer. Because if not, then the observer effect becomes, works sometimes. There's not laws that work sometimes. They work. When somebody look at it, it become a particle. It's a law.

But then, but maybe not this time. So it's not my fault. It's because of this or because of that. Now we're trying to find external things again, like pleasure. We're still trying to find things external to justify it because we don't take responsibility of our life. When we understand we are responsible for everything, that's mean we have power to change everything. And one of the synonym of quantum physics is the physics of possibility. Everything is possible to the limit of what you think is possible. For example, we can take kids.

speaker-1 (21:09.592)
at five years old, six years old, and make them read blindfolded. They would read like me and you. There's no difference. But then we think it's not possible. But then when you see it, you're like, so maybe if I see them, it's possible. So maybe it's possible for me. For adult, it's way harder because the school system, again, creativity passed from 98 % at five years old to 2 % in adult. But still, there's so many different things.

That's one thing I talk in my courses. There's tons of instant remission from cancer, almost name any kind of diseases. They all exist, but we don't talk about them. If you change your life, if you change your perspective, then you change your reality. So we know a lot of people that were told the doctor says you still have three months to live, nothing to do. Just enjoy life. They're like kind of fuck everything. Let's divorce.

buy the kids, they move to another country, they move something else, and then five years later, they're still healthy and nothing happened. And then didn't do anything. At the moment, the person shift, everything around her does not resemble of what she knows. So then your reality shift. I'm not a full big fan and I'm a big fan at the same time of retreats. Cause when you go to a retreat, you go out from your all external environments different. So it's amazing. So it's easy to shift, but then you go back to your reality.

And then if you don't work enough or challenge yourself enough, the reality will bring back who you are. Then you're like, I need to go back to the retreat. And then you become addicted to retreats. It's a big trend today. Retreats. So you'll feel unhappy. They're like sad, they're feeling empty and they go to retreats. I'm like, now I'm alive. Retreat is great. But at same time, how do you live in your life every day?

speaker-0 (22:59.214)
Right. A lot of people will say it's not sustainable and that's why they get into that loop of they go, it lasts a while, it's not sustainable, and it's almost like going for the big fix again. That's a big disconnect. For you, do you think there are things like with these self-development, these retreats, or even at the manifestation world, are they oversimplifying how change actually happens? And then people just

speaker-1 (23:11.775)
Yeah, that's right.

speaker-0 (23:29.08)
get a disconnect from the basic information.

speaker-1 (23:32.384)
Are they oversimplifying yes and no? I'm saying no because I think transformation and transmutation of the identity is not something complex. But a lot of people, they would say it's easy, but it's still the quick fix. So that's why it's yes and no. Some are maybe doing the right thing, but I go back a lot of times to what Buddhists are saying. The number of suffering in life is not understanding life or reality itself.

So that's why I'm not a big fan of therapy because therapy won't fix who you are. You're fixing an issue of who you are. So you're fixing like a part of you. So that's why I talked a lot about transmuting the identity. The identity is who is the observer in quantum physics. So if you change how you observe reality, then you create a different reality. If we understand like, for example, the Hinduists are talking about the word Maya means illusion. And they're like, they're saying like, we live in illusion until you don't understand that illusion is to live.

in a way that you think that's life is. We can go back to the movie, The Matrix, it's the same thing. It's like we're part of something, but we don't understand what it is. So we don't talk much about this. And the more we understand, for example, the concept for incarnation, that we're energy being, we're not physical body. Our physical body is just, it's not our physical body, it's just an interpretation of what it is. I show a study in my programs where

We bring somebody to tell them there's going to be a research done in the next room. So while we wait, we'll just do something for fun. So they're saying that's not the study we're doing, but that's the study they're doing. So they take a silicone arm and they place it on the table and the person plays their arm next to it. Then they put kind of a blindfold between the two arms. And then they start like touching both the fake and the real arms. And after a time they can take a needle

They poked a real harm, the person didn't feel anything. And then they poked a false harm and the person react as it's real harm. they burn the fake harm, could do anything and the person is reacting like it's real harm. So then the question is, are you your physical body or you're not? And you believe it is yourself. Mostly everybody knows Tony Robbins and one of the thing he does is like walking on fire.

speaker-0 (25:33.685)
fascinated.

speaker-1 (25:53.758)
Almost nobody burns themselves. Why? It's the same thing. The moment you don't associate yourself with your reality, with your physical things, which is we're not physical body, we're 99.9999 % empty space in reality. Buddha said this, quantum physics says it, or energy, we can call it emptiness or energy. We have so much more possibility of what we believe possible. But for this, we need to confront how we see reality.

And then the moment you raise your consciousness, at the moment you raise who you are, the trauma, the belief, the whole things from the past does not have an attachment to this new identity anymore. It's easier raising who you are than trying to fix every problem. Because when we know, we know the more attention we give to something, the more we give them power. It's an interesting thing.

speaker-0 (26:40.266)
It is very interesting. You mentioned a couple of times about your programming, and I know you developed the quantum source formula. For someone hearing about the quantum source formula for the first time, how would you describe what it is and what it's designed to change in a person's life?

speaker-1 (26:57.014)
Yeah, I call it source. So the source is an acronym, but I call source because the source is like the fundamental thing. If we can understand what's the fundamental of living, which is life, which is the high and I am, which is the reality we live in. If we understand that concept, not just at the, at the mental level, because we know so much in the mental level, but there's such a lack of meaning and integration into this world by using that.

like formula that's processed, we can really shift. And that's why in my thesis, for example, we experienced 33 % drop in symptoms of physical symptoms, 34 % drop in stress, a raise of 17 % in overall life satisfaction, 36 % of happiness, but mostly defined as consciousness, raise, expansion, 40 % improvement in neurotransmitter.

But I think one of the most interesting results was like at the end of the program, we're asking, did you experience any very stressful events like a divorce, firing at the job, like somebody very close dying or like getting diagnosed with a very chronic diseases. Based on science, these are like the most stressful event in our life. I've got 54 % of people saying I didn't experience any of those stressful events. We're talking about the improvement of approximately 30 % in overall happiness.

The person that said yes, so 46 % of people experience those things. And Avedoto's 46%, we're talking about 80 % improved.

speaker-0 (28:31.598)
That's a significant statistic.

speaker-1 (28:34.082)
That is a very significant statistic and a very challenging statistic because more stress equals more happiness, which should be the opposite. But if we go back to what Buddhists are saying, the more we understand reality, the less we suffer. So if we see those events, not from a dualistic perspective as like good and evil, but we're the one creating our reality and the only goal of life is evolution. So every experience that I create,

are only there for my own evolution, then I start living life very differently. And I get the result that the bigger the challenges, the bigger the growth, and we go back to business people, and we go back to athletes, usually the bigger fall, the bigger rejections makes you better. And we know this some ways. Like we know that our biggest challenges in our life were our biggest thing that make us grow, but it's like, don't want those. This is not my fault.

So we're trying to not take that. I'm the one creating my reality only for my own self for growth. Would you put some things you cannot pass? You cannot overcome in your path? I don't think that would be kind of stupidity and insanity in some ways. If you're putting things in your space, always big enough to be able to go through them, but not necessarily easy because you need to grow from them, then life become very different.

You can bring gratitude for everything that happened in your life. But you're like, no, somebody killed her.

speaker-0 (30:07.086)
That's truly beautiful. In the work, have you seen like any one shift inside the method that consistently surprises people in its effectiveness?

speaker-1 (30:19.244)
Hmm, that's a great question. I don't have something that come up. And I think the reason is I've got people that been like doing words for 30 years. I've gotten people that been doing words for 15 years or five years. So I've got people that comes rare from different backgrounds, different experiences. A lot of times people says most of what you teach is not new, but it's the way you bring us in a reflection. It's the way you link things.

Because there's a lot of concepts like oneness or manifestation. Those things are new, but it's like how do you bring them and make more sense without having paradox? But people doesn't question things anymore. Like, this makes sense. And when it makes sense, it's because it's aligned with your belief and values. When it does not make sense, you just turn it out because it's not aligned with how you see the world. So usually the worldview

that define us, then we'll take friends that align with our worldview, and then we think it's true. And there is a Anil Seth, which is a neuroscientist. He was saying something like, when we all hallucinate something, and we all believe that this alienation is true, we think it's true. But it's still an hallucination, but we all believe it's true. So now it's become a fact, but it's still an hallucination.

And one of the fundamental concepts of quantum physics is the uncertainty principle, meaning there is nothing certain in life. Even if we throw an electron in space, we cannot define exactly the position or the velocity or the speed at the same time. It's impossible. In the 3D world, where we live, it's exactly there. And it's kind of true. We perceive it true, but it's not true, really. But that's how we live. We don't want to have anything uncomfortable.

Uncertain we want to predict everything even our brain is designed for survival So we're always trying to predict the future, but that does not make us grow So be in place Uncomfortable be in conversation. We're uncomfortable. The number one tip I give in my book is do a book club It costs zero again cause zero. So maybe it's not interesting enough, but you're gonna read a chap

speaker-1 (32:34.668)
Are you going to discuss about the chapter? We all have different perspectives. We might not agree on things and it's perfect. But we don't do this. Buddhists are doing this all the time because there is not a right way to understand this passage in the sacred text. So that's why they debate a lot. That's why they meditate on the text. That's what they read again. They study the text. They debate it. If you ever listen to the Dalai Lama managing different conversation and the way he asked question, it's fascinating.

is being trained by the best debater in the world. So even if you look at the best debater, the way they see life is very different. There's not a right or wrong answer in the debate. You need to understand both worlds. But now we don't do this. That's my opinion. That's yours. Then we fight or we don't become friends.

speaker-0 (33:08.526)
That's interesting.

speaker-0 (33:23.464)
Everything's very polarized for sure. And there is a lot of different people who present different things in the spiritual world. With Oneness, there's a lot of work on sacred contracts and agreements that we made before we came into the physicality and roles that we played to grow and learn lessons. So it really does interplay with other aspects of spirituality that are out there. I am curious, especially since you've grown up with these principles.

Was there ever a time or events in your life where it was really hard for you to live by some of this?

speaker-1 (33:57.614)
started my spiritual class when I was nine. So this time was kind of challenging because church was still there and friends would come up. There were like Buddha statue crystals everywhere. So this was kind of a bit challenging. I was like, why we're doing this? This was kind of a weird thing. And even when I was doing different certification, different training, they're like, you need to do it this way. So for example, was certified, I'm not certified directly by the integral life coaching based on Ken Wilber's perspective.

because I was not following the steps like everybody else. Even during the certification at the end, so they bring in a client, you coach the client in front of the whole room. The client shift and I shift with them. And then everybody at the end, they're like, the teacher says, there's three people that are kind of in standby by being certified. Then you go with your friends, you're like, this is the one. they're like, when they told my name, everybody was like, he did the best coaching ever. But I was not following ABCD. That's what people want to do now.

You do this because you're doing things, even if you're competent or incompetent, it doesn't matter, but you're following the framework. Spirituality, it's not about framework. It's about being with the person, about listening and listening things. Yeah, you can have different strategy for different things, but you need to be in the presence of things. There's this famous book of Chris Ross. I never split the difference. He was a CIA or FBI negotiator for the hostages.

speaker-0 (35:04.942)
Great.

speaker-1 (35:25.686)
The main thing he was saying, like the moment I'm on the phone trying to negotiate with somebody, there's other people listening with me and we're trying to understand what the person is. There's a framework to get the best result, but it's in the listening. So sometimes like listening will give you to another space and that's okay. You need to be with the energy and movement. So these are things that was like, this makes sense. And that's kind of my rebel perspective that I went through extreme sports, to drugs, to...

to search for something, but it was like challenging a lot of times what I was studying and reading because

speaker-0 (36:01.162)
It just wasn't resonating.

speaker-1 (36:03.736)
And sometimes people are like, this person is amazing. And I'm like, there's something wrong. And then at some point I'm like, okay, this is what was the wrong, the lack of authenticity or.

speaker-0 (36:15.532)
So you were listening to yourself. Many people don't do that. That's a lost start for sure.

speaker-1 (36:20.962)
Yeah. For example, I'm super intuitive. And by growing up as the younger of the family, my brother was older, my parents were older. So I was the one managing the clinic of my dad, but my ideas were never accepted because it didn't make any sense. And at some point you start doubting what you believe in what's right and how to do things. And, and in my perspective, the way to manage health industry is very different than a traditional business. And I was like, sure of that, but then

My brother, my mom, my dad, they were like, no. And the consultant were like, no, this is not how we do business. So a lot of time intuition does not make sense, but you know, it's right. It's like when Einstein came up with equal MC2, they were asking, how do you know? Because he was not trying to work on the board and trying to find what's the answer. And like, it just came to him and he's like, I have no idea, but I know it's true. It was just proven many years after that.

speaker-0 (37:19.928)
Intuition's the lost start. think that's making a massive, massive comeback.

speaker-1 (37:24.6)
Yeah, that's true. Where the intuition comes from. If we talk about the highest level intuition that comes from the supramental body, when you're fully connected, it's because you're removing kind of, I would call it the ego in some ways in the back door. And that's the challenge. Even the people that channel information or that are people that see the future and those kinds of things, they're the filter to that information.

The information comes as an energy and then we need to have a 3D mechanism which is our brain to filter this. The brain is like the receiver from consciousness. But if you're not having a good day, you filter that information. Intuition, most of time it taught like, oh yeah, feel what's happening in your body. Most of the time the woman's from the heart, the man is like the belly, the gut feeling and those kinds of things. But it's kind of more complex than this because if you're not evolved, you can follow the intuition, but it's filtered by your unconscious.

Intuition is amazing, but how much do filter that information? That's the thing that most people doesn't talk.

speaker-0 (38:27.064)
That's more in depth. don't usually hear people talk about that aspect of it. So thanks for bringing that up. Your work emphasizes the depth and the integration rather than the bypassing for you. Philip, what does healthy responsible shadow work look like? Cause we know that honestly shadow work's a big industry. What's legitimate shadow work look like?

speaker-1 (38:50.83)
Shadow work is not bad by itself, but it's fixing things from the past, from the trauma and so on. So it's another way to term therapy in some ways. So understanding what's happening or knowing exactly what happened in the past life, or even if, for example, if we talk about regression therapy, so we do diagnosis to bring you back from a past life, the study shows that like the results are very great.

But a lot of people at the same time, they believe they're they're Caesar or like Cleopatra and like there's multiple people of them. So then we can say, oh no, it's false. So we discredit. But at the same time, you're having great results. So it's like dream analysis of dreams. It's symbolism. So we don't really care if what really happened. It's the interpretation of what happened. 90 % approximately of what we remember of what happens false. Neuroscience proves it. So then even if you're trying to figure it out,

you're still creating your reality of the observer. How do you observe what happened? That's why I'm like, therapy, shadow work, all good things. But if you don't change who you're observing, how you're observing, you're going to still living in shadow work will never be finished. And then we can give this beautiful example. For example, if we know we're a light being, we're like a candle. Candle have no shadow. So we just need to make our light brighter and like the shadow of the room will disappear.

Instead of trying to see, there's a shadow there because my sofa is there. So there's a shadow. I'm trying to find what's this part of my body that's and put more light over there. Yeah, it works, but you're not changing necessarily who you are. You're fixing different things. If your car is only like a Lada 1980, you were trying to repair different things. It's still going to be a lot of 1980. So the moment you shift to, I don't know, a BMW or something that's a Lexus or whatever it is.

then it's the whole thing that's transformed. And we're trying to fix pieces because we think we're separate, because we're still from a duality perspective.

speaker-0 (40:57.868)
You keep going back because that is just such a big key to that. Even in the beginning, when you were talking about the retreats and the different work, people like, they love inspiration. They love inspirational people. And I think that they get caught up in it. And then they get surprised when they realize that they actually have to do some work to be part of the change, that they have to be an active participant in it. And we're seeing a lot of that. What do you think about?

how someone can know when they're truly transforming versus just adopting more empowering language. I feel like there's a lot of window dressing out there.

speaker-1 (41:34.752)
Yeah, that's not an easy answer and that's a great question at same time because if people doesn't know what's really happening in their life because they don't understand life is, how can you know you're shifting? That's the challenge and that's why I see so many people over the years, they're like, I feel great. but this isn't less. We do so many different things, but at the same time we're like, that's why we're consuming so much things. There's a study on

the number of people that start an online course, like when I'm having coaching, so it's your own self-based courses. The study shows that it's approximately 3 % of people finish the course. Yeah, because you've been sold on a course. So yeah, now it's motivation. You're like, it's the shiny things. You're like so excited, but you don't finish it because you see the next shiny things. Instead of like, for example, you take a book.

speaker-0 (42:15.949)
Really?

speaker-1 (42:32.694)
You meditate on book, you read the book, you study the book, you read five books a year, but you study each books. But the new tendency today is like read 50 books a year. You'll be like a CEO. There's a company now called Blinkix that does that. give you resume. So you're like, I've done accomplish a lot of things. But still we're looking for the quick fix.

speaker-0 (42:53.814)
Yeah. It's interesting that you say that about the books because more recently it's interested me even in a books or different coursework someone might be doing on a spiritual path. I have a good friend who just went back to a book and redid the work with the book that they did 10 years ago and they were like, my God, Sandra, it was like I never even heard this book or I never read this book. And I've heard other people say that when they go back to

maybe some initiatory spiritual work that they did, was like, wow, like, did they change this course? This wasn't the same course. What I believe is happening is as people are evolving and their frequency rises, when they take that same material, they're taking it in from a whole different level.

I don't even want to use, don't think mindset's the right word to use, that it is like brand new word. It is a new evolution because they're experiencing totally different.

speaker-1 (43:52.354)
Yeah. I'll just give you an example. So I'm the one editing my book, structuring the structure inside the book, making the section and moving chapters. So I read the book. I don't know how many times when I do this, I did this last year. I started to reread some part of the book and I was like, that's very interesting. I didn't see it this way. So I'm the one that wrote the thing. I've like, I did it to like restructure it. And when I read it, I still understand things.

So right now I'm working on my course called Quantum Happiness 101. It's in French, so everything is in French, what I do as of now, even if my doctorate was in English. So I'm working to do the English version of the Quantum 101 Happiness. And I was like, oh, okay, that's interesting. But make me reflect even if my own things. Because even if I teach something, do I really master every section of it? Do I really embody every part of it?

If the answer is yes, then you might be enlightened already. In some moments it's easier, in some moments it's harder. But the more you understand and the more you're trying to understand those things, the more it's going to be easy. And for this, that's why I think teaching, we can say it's a bottom of the pyramid where you get the most retention because you're trying to teach something so you need to understand even more.

when I'm working on the course right now, I'm like, how, okay, maybe I could change stuff. How can I simplify this? So I'm trying to put myself in somebody's shoes and trying, okay, how can I shift this? And that was interesting because my first year of doctorate, I was having like A plus, A all the time, like the best course for every exams, every homework that I was doing. was like, I don't understand anything, but I'm having A's all the time. So I'm like, there's something missing.

At the end of the first year, the end of second semester, I turned to my wife, I'm like, I think I'm going to quit because I'm like, just not learning anything. And like, no, you're going to stick to it. I'm like, okay. And kind of the same time, they're asking for a student to start teaching at the master and doctorate level. And I'm like, I want to teach. Nobody raised their hand except me. And then I was like, okay, how can we simplify? How can we simplify? How can we bring this? And the first comments I got is like, from students.

speaker-1 (46:13.144)
They're like, I start to understand something. So I was like, I was not the only one. And that's where I realized that we do so many different things, but we don't really understand what we're learning. Like one mess, I go back always to this concept. What does it mean? My dad went to India two times in ashram. And once he was able to, he went to see Satya Sai Baba, which was a big guru in India. And he was known to materialize stuff out of from thin hair.

My dad was chosen and the one that two times he went to ask him a question. And the question was, how can you materialize things and I can't? It's like, I know I'm God and you don't. And it's a very interesting answer because most everybody in spirituality, like we say, we all know we're God, I'm God. And like, I'm the source, I'm consciousness, I'm this, I'm that. Yeah, but it just stay mental. So how much percentage do you fully believe in all every cells of the all space that you're filling?

It might be three percents and him it's like 100%. That's the only difference. So how can we raise this percentage? How can we raise your consciousness in those concepts to make things possible? Challenging, being able to remove you, moving things in the distance, confronting how you perceive reality with different studies, like the studies I was talking with the arm already earlier. These are things that makes you reflect and you're like, okay. So maybe now things are maybe not what I would have taught.

So that's why we had mostly the woman having this like midlife crisis because I was the one in charge of the kids. And now what do I do with my life? I define my life as being the wife and the mother. And now I'm, don't know. So they were questioning things way more because of that. Now there's not much. They're confronting that more in like in the best perspective because now they're all working mom and working dads. And most of the time, both of them work.

So they don't have this challenge most the same ways. But now is like, I'm having everything, but I'm like not happy anymore. And I thought that's going to be the thing because that's what we told you. Like you need to choose what you're going to do at life at like 16 or 15 or 17, depending on where you live in the world. You're going to do this for the rest of your life. You need a good diploma for this because you'll get a good job for this and then you get good money. then

speaker-1 (48:36.91)
You end up like in Canada, 150 % of death. So meaning if you're a hundred, a hundred K a year, that's mean you 150,000 in debt. And then you think you have freedom. You think you have happiness with this. And a funny thing is if you look at animals, animals are a very interesting things to study because they're very similar than us because we're technically animals, but we have more reflection outside of that is very reflection can be discussable about.

How much do we have? So if you look at animals in captivity, their expense, high levels of anxiety, depression, negative emotions, animals in nature, nothing. It's funny. My question then is, are we human in captivity? Are we living freely in nature?

speaker-0 (49:26.958)
Wow.

speaker-1 (49:28.598)
And entertainment started mostly off what we remember in the Roman empire to make sure the population stay quiet. Now we have the Olympic games, we have the Superbowl, we have so many different things from Hollywood, it's entertainment. So we keep people like not too much on vocal, keep it smooth. So we never question who's the I in I am. We're not questioning what life is. We're not questioning what reality is. And we're like.

just go in the rat race and then at some point we hit the wall and we're like, why? let's just do this retreat or just lose some breathing or just do this right key. But we are not questioning again what life is.

speaker-0 (50:10.606)
Thank you for bringing that to the forefront and connecting all of that in a very simplistic yet powerful way that really answers a lot of the deep questions people have right now. So for people who feel drawn to it further with you, how can they connect with you and what might that journey look like?

speaker-1 (50:32.766)
Yeah, so as of now, there's the book and that's kind of the easiest way to enter the concept. So Rethinking Happiness. They can follow me on vitacantem.com or on my social media if you figure out how to write my name, Philippe Brouillard. So I've got social in French and English. I've got both languages, so just follow the English one if you don't understand French. But I'm launching like the Quantum Happiness 101 very soon, which is a very entry program to experience a bit more of what I do.

And then the thesis program, which I call the quantum happiness mission. think we really need to go back to our mission of what our life is. This should be out in March or April at the latest, technically, where we go through an adventure together and that experiencing and. And what I love is challenging how you see life. So I bring so much different studies from quantum physics, yes, but different statistic, like I was mentioning the paradox of progress or like the creativity in kids and versus adults and those kinds of things.

We're in a very interesting era where I think we really need the signs today because of school. Thousands of years ago, we didn't care if that spirituality was enough, but now we need, based on how we live and we're kind of very lucky to be in that point now today. We have access to this versus hundreds of years ago, we didn't have any of those. So I think we're in very great place.

of what's happening. And even if people would say, right now is chaos what's happening on the planet. No, just be grateful of what you're creating and you're gonna grow from it. Every day you can wake up and just be grateful for what's happening. And my goal is to create a quantum shift of consciousness worldwide. if like, join the movement at some point, it's like, whatever the level it is, you can do your thing by your own self or you can be guided with me. I'm not there to coach you. I'm there to guide you towards something different.

and it's up to you to what you really want in life.

speaker-0 (52:35.552)
I love it. Join the movement and you clearly have so much to offer. As we're winding down the show, I have one last question that I'm curious about. Where do you see conversations between quantum science and spirituality evolving over the next five years?

speaker-1 (52:51.662)
I think it's just going to open even more because there's still very retention of this. So it's funny because scientists, they're like, no, quantum physics is not applicable to human being. So it's funny because I live in Mexico and there is a little place where there's a Sona next to a river. So we go there like every week and there was a neuroscientist in the Sona at some point and they're like, are you more a dualistic or a unisysed neuroscientist? She said, I'm more unisysed. I'm like, okay. So then I give her example of duality.

and Unity neuroscientist and she was like, no, I'm more, she's not saying this, but she's like more dualistic. So I'm like, why do we believe we use quantum perspective in the device to read the brain if you don't believe in the quantum perspective? And then she says, yeah, that's different. So I need to leave now. And then I said this to my friend and he's like, he study how kids evolve. So we have a kid, so we're very good friend and he has like,

a kid, a daughter, and my daughter have a couple of months difference. He was like, it's very interesting because you will never find somebody that's going to scare you in an alley and asking you an intelligent question. Nobody talks about that. So people are scared with intelligence. So if you're having a PhD in something and I'm challenging you the way you think life is, and this is going to put yourself in a reflection of

everything your life is defined, then you're going to stick to your things and you're going to say this is wrong. But more and more, there's so many ways to prove the quantum physics perspective that is really everything is energy, everything is consciousness and so on. And it's removed so much paradox that on the other side, they're filled with paradox, but they just don't want to talk about it. And like people like me and others that talks about those concepts, people are demanding this more and more.

it's going to be more pressure on getting open to this. For example, the studies or my thesis won't be published in the big scientific journal because the group accepting those papers doesn't want to have something that challenged their worldview. So slowly there's going to be like third or second quality journal that going to take the lead and we're seeing more and more on those. And there's going to be more money invested in those kinds of things.

speaker-1 (55:18.05)
with time and we're going to see that the more we go toward that route, the more change and transformation we'll get. 25 years ago when I was working with my dad, I was like, we need to have a nonprofit organization to support research with functional medicine to prove what we do works. Even if we know it works, but if you have the proof, then it's going to change. And so that's why I did my thesis specifically on the program I've developed during my thesis. And I'm going to study in

write papers and I could do more research because it's out there. It's possible. And at some point, those things cannot be denied anymore because there's big places that do a lot of research. There's more and more money that are moving into that space now. But at the same time, sadly, because it's a trend, a lot of people does kind of the anything thing, which is like no foundation, no scientific proof. And they're like trying to do marketing from it.

and make money, there is always this problematic, but at the same time it's noise, which is not bad. At the same time, it's like the new age is not perfect, but it's still bringing people in that spiritual realm. But I think in five years, we'll be like so far in. Like AI is moving so fast. I think that world will move not as fast as AI. I think there's nothing as of now that can move faster. There's going to be this movement more and more of accepting and understanding those concepts.

speaker-0 (56:45.112)
totally agree. You you mentioned functional medicine 25 years ago and I work in healthcare and I would say functional medicine is way more mainstream over the last couple years than it has been in a long time. And there are a lot of researchers and science out there for the people who really need the data for their brains to acknowledge this. So I'm with you. I think it blows up in a very positive way.

speaker-1 (57:10.242)
Yeah. And at the same time, move proof we have, the more we're playing with the placebo and the more, for example, my customer that comes in and they see the studies and see this and this, even if I do nothing, they're going to get result because they're going to believe it works. So we can use, even if we can manipulate people, but if we can manipulate people to more transformation, like why not?

speaker-0 (57:26.935)
Absolutely.

speaker-0 (57:34.616)
Philip, thank you for your wisdom, all your truths that you've shared. This has really been a stimulating conversation. I truly have enjoyed it.

speaker-1 (57:42.062)
Thank you. Thank you, Sandra.

speaker-0 (57:43.47)
For all the listeners out there, I want to thank you for taking time out of your day to join Phillip and I. Remember, stay curious, stay open. Until next time, thanks again, Phillip.

Thank you for joining us for this episode of Wild Soul Gathering's Happy Hour for the Spiritually Curious. To learn more about our guests, please go to our website, WildSoulsGathering.com. We're very eager to hear from our listeners what you thought of the episode, topics you might like us to cover in the future, your thoughts on spirituality, questions you may have. Please feel free to send us an email at WildSoulsGathering.gmail.com.

This is your host, Dr. Sandra Marie, sending each of you peace and love. Until we meet again, embrace your wild soul.