{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":4.29,"endTime":8.1,"body":"You're seeing a"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":4.29,"endTime":8.1,"body":"pancaking of costs every year"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":8.58,"endTime":12.12,"body":"that gets built into the rate"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":8.58,"endTime":12.12,"body":"base that consumers, captive"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":12.21,"endTime":15.45,"body":"consumers, have no idea what's"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":12.21,"endTime":15.45,"body":"happening, and a lot of policy"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":15.57,"endTime":19.05,"body":"makers on Capitol Hill and in"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":15.57,"endTime":19.05,"body":"state houses don't understand"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":19.05,"endTime":19.44,"body":"that either."},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":22.17,"endTime":24.65,"body":"Hello, everybody."},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":22.17,"endTime":24.65,"body":"Welcome to the premiere edition"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":24.77,"endTime":28.55,"body":"of The Factor This Policycast, a"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":24.77,"endTime":28.55,"body":"brand new podcast partnership"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":28.67,"endTime":31.55,"body":"with National Industry"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":28.67,"endTime":31.55,"body":"Association Advanced Energy"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":31.64,"endTime":34.88,"body":"United, tackling the"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":31.64,"endTime":34.88,"body":"legislation, rulemaking, and"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":34.94,"endTime":38.66,"body":"market design that matter to"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":34.94,"endTime":38.66,"body":"clean energy leaders. Congrats,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":38.75,"endTime":41.68,"body":"listener, you're coming in on"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":38.75,"endTime":41.68,"body":"the ground floor. Great to have"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":41.77,"endTime":45.52,"body":"you aboard. I'm Factor This"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":41.77,"endTime":45.52,"body":"Content Director Paul Gerke. You"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":45.58,"endTime":48.52,"body":"can expect to find me moderating"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":45.58,"endTime":48.52,"body":"this series of discussions,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":48.61,"endTime":51.07,"body":"which will feature voices from"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":48.61,"endTime":51.07,"body":"across the energy policy"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":51.19,"endTime":54.52,"body":"landscape and spotlight issues"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":51.19,"endTime":54.52,"body":"shaping the evolution of our"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":54.61,"endTime":57.46,"body":"electric grid. We're beginning"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":54.61,"endTime":57.46,"body":"with a topic you may have"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":57.55,"endTime":60.9,"body":"competitive transmission"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":61.02,"endTime":64.59,"body":"solicitation. It's no secret"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":61.02,"endTime":64.59,"body":"that large scale critical"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":64.71,"endTime":67.23,"body":"electrical infrastructure"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":64.71,"endTime":67.23,"body":"projects like high voltage"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":67.35,"endTime":71.1,"body":"transmission lines cost a lot to"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":67.35,"endTime":71.1,"body":"build, and they take some time"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":71.16,"endTime":74.82,"body":"to come online. After all, we're"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":71.16,"endTime":74.82,"body":"not ordering private taxis for"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":74.88,"endTime":78.45,"body":"our burritos here. This is"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":74.88,"endTime":78.45,"body":"complicated stuff, and not many"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":78.54,"endTime":81.98,"body":"companies can really do the"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":78.54,"endTime":81.98,"body":"work. About 15 years ago, the"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":81.98,"endTime":85.4,"body":"Federal Energy Regulatory"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":81.98,"endTime":85.4,"body":"Commission, or FERC, mandated"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":85.46,"endTime":89.18,"body":"that utilities competitively bid"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":85.46,"endTime":89.18,"body":"out such projects, but that"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":89.3,"endTime":92.36,"body":"mandate really isn't being"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":89.3,"endTime":92.36,"body":"enforced, for reasons we'll get"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":92.42,"endTime":96.56,"body":"into shortly. New data points to"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":92.42,"endTime":96.56,"body":"tremendous benefits from"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":96.68,"endTime":99.56,"body":"competitive transmission,"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":96.68,"endTime":99.56,"body":"though, including billions of"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":99.62,"endTime":103.48,"body":"dollars ultimately saved by"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":99.62,"endTime":103.48,"body":"ratepayers, detractors argue the"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":103.57,"endTime":106.21,"body":"bidding process delays"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":103.57,"endTime":106.21,"body":"timelines, sometimes up to"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":106.45,"endTime":110.59,"body":"years, and subjects projects to"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":106.45,"endTime":110.59,"body":"hidden costs. A group of Midwest"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":110.65,"endTime":114.07,"body":"utilities has even gone as far"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":110.65,"endTime":114.07,"body":"as asking FERC to halt the"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":114.25,"endTime":118.9,"body":"bidding process in MISO and SPP"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":114.25,"endTime":118.9,"body":"territories. On this episode of"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":118.9,"endTime":121.59,"body":"the podcast, I'm joined by"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":118.9,"endTime":121.59,"body":"Caitlin Markey, managing"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":121.68,"endTime":125.46,"body":"director at Advanced Energy"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":121.68,"endTime":125.46,"body":"United, and Paul Sisio, chair of"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":125.46,"endTime":129.18,"body":"the Electricity Transmission"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":125.46,"endTime":129.18,"body":"Competition Coalition, both are"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":129.3,"endTime":133.26,"body":"strong advocates for competitive"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":129.3,"endTime":133.26,"body":"transmission, and they'll share"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":133.41,"endTime":136.41,"body":"findings that back them up."},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":133.41,"endTime":136.41,"body":"We'll discuss that utility"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":136.5,"endTime":140.22,"body":"request to ban competition"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":136.5,"endTime":140.22,"body":"outright, talk about FERC's role"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":140.31,"endTime":143.42,"body":"in all of this and explore the"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":140.31,"endTime":143.42,"body":"finer points complicating"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":143.54,"endTime":147.35,"body":"broader transmission build out"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":143.54,"endTime":147.35,"body":"at a time we really need it."},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":147.5,"endTime":157.46,"body":"Welcome to the Factor This"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":147.5,"endTime":157.46,"body":"Policycast, Paul. I'd love to"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":157.52,"endTime":160.15,"body":"start with you. One of the first"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":157.52,"endTime":160.15,"body":"things you mentioned when I"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":160.24,"endTime":162.19,"body":"touch base with you about being"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":160.24,"endTime":162.19,"body":"on the show, was the"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":162.31,"endTime":165.28,"body":"affordability crisis."},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":162.31,"endTime":165.28,"body":"Everybody's talking about how"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":165.46,"endTime":168.76,"body":"expensive energy is right now."},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":165.46,"endTime":168.76,"body":"How does competitive"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":168.85,"endTime":172.3,"body":"transmission bidding play a role"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":168.85,"endTime":172.3,"body":"in the affordability crisis, and"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":172.51,"endTime":175.87,"body":"how much of the affordability"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":172.51,"endTime":175.87,"body":"issue can we really pin on the"},{"speaker":"spotted in recent headlines","startTime":175.87,"endTime":176.74,"body":"cost of transmission?"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":177.16,"endTime":179.14,"body":"Yeah, yeah. Well,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":177.16,"endTime":179.14,"body":"thank you for that question, and"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":179.2,"endTime":183.99,"body":"thank you for the invitation."},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":179.2,"endTime":183.99,"body":"You know, as you have said, we"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":184.56,"endTime":188.76,"body":"have a serious reliability"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":184.56,"endTime":188.76,"body":"crisis, of, you know, because of"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":189.33,"endTime":193.8,"body":"multiple multiplicity of things"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":189.33,"endTime":193.8,"body":"like the Iran crisis, but here"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":193.92,"endTime":196.8,"body":"today we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":193.92,"endTime":196.8,"body":"specifically the electricity"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":197.73,"endTime":202.85,"body":"affordability crisis, the cost"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":197.73,"endTime":202.85,"body":"of electricity is way"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":203.15,"endTime":208.91,"body":"outweighing the consumer price"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":203.15,"endTime":208.91,"body":"index. How much can we pin on"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":209.18,"endTime":213.23,"body":"it? Let me just back up a minute"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":209.18,"endTime":213.23,"body":"and tell you that about four"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":213.35,"endTime":218.3,"body":"years ago we started looking at"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":213.35,"endTime":218.3,"body":"electricity prices starting to"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":218.36,"endTime":221.92,"body":"increase and demand was flat. We"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":218.36,"endTime":221.92,"body":"started asking questions, why"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":222.97,"endTime":225.67,"body":"are we seeing these higher"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":222.97,"endTime":225.67,"body":"electricity bills, and when we"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":225.82,"endTime":229.81,"body":"did, we found out that"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":225.82,"endTime":229.81,"body":"electricity, the transmission"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":229.9,"endTime":235.09,"body":"costs were exceedingly growing"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":229.9,"endTime":235.09,"body":"at a much faster rate than"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":235.24,"endTime":239.32,"body":"generation and distribution"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":235.24,"endTime":239.32,"body":"costs, and when we looked at it,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":239.32,"endTime":246.81,"body":"we found out that order 1000"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":239.32,"endTime":246.81,"body":"that was a 2011 rule that FERC"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":247.02,"endTime":253.08,"body":"issued, said that it was in the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":247.02,"endTime":253.08,"body":"public interest that these large"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":253.35,"endTime":257.46,"body":"transmission regionally planned"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":253.35,"endTime":257.46,"body":"projects be competitively bid,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":257.52,"endTime":260.13,"body":"in other words, using"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":257.52,"endTime":260.13,"body":"competition, unleashing"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":260.67,"endTime":265.19,"body":"competition to drive down costs,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":260.67,"endTime":265.19,"body":"but we also found out real"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":265.31,"endTime":269.66,"body":"quick, we looked at a Brattle"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":265.31,"endTime":269.66,"body":"study report that said that"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":270.02,"endTime":273.8,"body":"about only 5% of all the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":270.02,"endTime":273.8,"body":"transmission projects in the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":273.8,"endTime":278.51,"body":"United States were being"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":273.8,"endTime":278.51,"body":"competitively bid, and as we"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":278.72,"endTime":282.01,"body":"started investigating this, we"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":278.72,"endTime":282.01,"body":"came down to the conclusion"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":282.16,"endTime":287.71,"body":"that, in a way, second FERC"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":282.16,"endTime":287.71,"body":"order 1000 is the law of the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":287.86,"endTime":292.87,"body":"land, but FERC was not enforcing"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":287.86,"endTime":292.87,"body":"it, and so we started asking"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":292.93,"endTime":296.68,"body":"questions about how can the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":292.93,"endTime":296.68,"body":"utilities, how can they get"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":296.77,"endTime":304.38,"body":"around this law of the land. And"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":296.77,"endTime":304.38,"body":"in order 1000 they had a small"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":305.28,"endTime":308.97,"body":"caveat that said look, if you,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":305.28,"endTime":308.97,"body":"if a transmission, if a company"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":309.09,"endTime":313.53,"body":"needs a transmission project for"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":309.09,"endTime":313.53,"body":"reliability purposes, in other"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":313.56,"endTime":316.74,"body":"words, you know, okay, an"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":313.56,"endTime":316.74,"body":"emergency, you need to build"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":316.77,"endTime":320.21,"body":"this really, really quick, then"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":316.77,"endTime":320.21,"body":"it does not have to be"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":320.36,"endTime":325.01,"body":"competitively bid. Well, guess"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":320.36,"endTime":325.01,"body":"what? That loophole became from"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":325.1,"endTime":328.61,"body":"a small loophole to a large"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":325.1,"endTime":328.61,"body":"loophole that the utilities have"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":328.64,"endTime":334.73,"body":"been using ever since to escape"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":328.64,"endTime":334.73,"body":"competition and the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":334.73,"endTime":338.93,"body":"affordability crisis. Building"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":334.73,"endTime":338.93,"body":"transmission lines is extremely"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":339.41,"endTime":344.59,"body":"profitable. The utilities for"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":339.41,"endTime":344.59,"body":"every dollar that they spend"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":345.85,"endTime":350.65,"body":"will receive lucrative"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":345.85,"endTime":350.65,"body":"transmission incentives from"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":350.65,"endTime":355.81,"body":"FERC. There's 10 of them, and"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":350.65,"endTime":355.81,"body":"that results in a return on"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":355.99,"endTime":362.22,"body":"equity that is between often 10"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":355.99,"endTime":362.22,"body":"to 12% for the entire life of"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":362.22,"endTime":366.69,"body":"the project, but getting more to"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":362.22,"endTime":366.69,"body":"the heart of the issue, a lot of"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":366.99,"endTime":371.16,"body":"people don't understand, policy"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":366.99,"endTime":371.16,"body":"makers included, is that the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":371.31,"endTime":377.01,"body":"initial cost plus the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":371.31,"endTime":377.01,"body":"incentives, and then they have"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":377.1,"endTime":381.17,"body":"to finance that, so there's the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":377.1,"endTime":381.17,"body":"cost of financing when you take"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":381.2,"endTime":386.0,"body":"the original cost of capital"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":381.2,"endTime":386.0,"body":"plus the ROEs plus the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":386.21,"endTime":390.32,"body":"financing, it literally"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":386.21,"endTime":390.32,"body":"quadruples the cost of that"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":390.41,"endTime":393.68,"body":"transmission line for the life"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":390.41,"endTime":393.68,"body":"of the project, so you see"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":393.95,"endTime":398.87,"body":"you're seeing a pancaking of"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":393.95,"endTime":398.87,"body":"costs every year that gets built"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":399.02,"endTime":402.34,"body":"into the rate base that"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":399.02,"endTime":402.34,"body":"consumers, captive consumers,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":402.4,"endTime":405.7,"body":"have no idea what's happening,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":402.4,"endTime":405.7,"body":"and a lot of policy makers on"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":405.79,"endTime":409.12,"body":"Capitol Hill and in state houses"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":405.79,"endTime":409.12,"body":"don't understand that either,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":409.54,"endTime":415.75,"body":"but it is a big deal, and we're"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":409.54,"endTime":415.75,"body":"seeing a cascade of costs. The"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":416.14,"endTime":419.71,"body":"rate that Edison Electric"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":416.14,"endTime":419.71,"body":"Institute is forecasting for"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":419.8,"endTime":423.78,"body":"transmission spending is at a"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":419.8,"endTime":423.78,"body":"rate three times higher than the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":423.78,"endTime":428.13,"body":"10 year average that we saw. So,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":423.78,"endTime":428.13,"body":"do we have an electricity"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":428.67,"endTime":431.73,"body":"transmission affordability"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":428.67,"endTime":431.73,"body":"crisis? Yes, sir, we do."},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":433.349,"endTime":435.689,"body":"Caitlin, I'd love to"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":433.349,"endTime":435.689,"body":"hear you weigh in on this. It"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":435.689,"endTime":438.209,"body":"sounds like there's a real"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":435.689,"endTime":438.209,"body":"opportunity here to leverage"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":438.359,"endTime":440.939,"body":"competitive bidding to save some"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":438.359,"endTime":440.939,"body":"money. Your thoughts?"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":441.689,"endTime":444.649,"body":"Yeah, and"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":441.689,"endTime":444.649,"body":"thanks for having me on the"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":444.739,"endTime":448.069,"body":"podcast. So, I work from where I"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":444.739,"endTime":448.069,"body":"sit at Advanced Energy United."},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":448.099,"endTime":451.549,"body":"We, we are a trade association"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":448.099,"endTime":451.549,"body":"that works nationally, and we"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":451.699,"endTime":454.459,"body":"represent companies that are"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":451.699,"endTime":454.459,"body":"developing competitive"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":454.519,"endTime":457.219,"body":"transmission, as well as a lot"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":454.519,"endTime":457.219,"body":"of other companies across the"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":457.339,"endTime":462.129,"body":"energy sector, from competitive"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":457.339,"endTime":462.129,"body":"generation developers, grid side"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":462.219,"endTime":465.789,"body":"technologies, distributed energy"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":462.219,"endTime":465.789,"body":"resources, sort of whole range"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":465.849,"endTime":469.419,"body":"of technologies, and and"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":465.849,"endTime":469.419,"body":"thinking about how transmission"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":469.569,"endTime":472.419,"body":"intersects with affordability. I"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":469.569,"endTime":472.419,"body":"think it's also really important"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":472.419,"endTime":476.349,"body":"to step back and recognize"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":472.419,"endTime":476.349,"body":"transmission costs have gone up,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":476.439,"endTime":478.899,"body":"but transmission, if it's well"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":476.439,"endTime":478.899,"body":"planned, if we're building the"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":479.079,"endTime":483.119,"body":"right transmission, has a lot of"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":479.079,"endTime":483.119,"body":"consumer benefits, and so it"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":483.209,"endTime":487.169,"body":"can, it can unlock more"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":483.209,"endTime":487.169,"body":"affordable generation resources"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":487.349,"endTime":491.219,"body":"that were that lower the cost of"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":487.349,"endTime":491.219,"body":"electricity and can result in"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":491.309,"endTime":495.359,"body":"net cost savings for customers"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":491.309,"endTime":495.359,"body":"if we're building the right"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":495.599,"endTime":499.169,"body":"kinds of transmission or"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":495.599,"endTime":499.169,"body":"planning it regionally and"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":499.199,"endTime":503.659,"body":"independently, and that's what"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":499.199,"endTime":503.659,"body":"what Paul is highlighting is"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":503.749,"endTime":506.419,"body":"that we, we really haven't been"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":503.749,"endTime":506.419,"body":"doing that in a lot of cases,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":506.629,"endTime":511.069,"body":"and the transmission that we've"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":506.629,"endTime":511.069,"body":"been building since order 1000"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":512.839,"endTime":519.499,"body":"was was approved by FERC in 2011"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":512.839,"endTime":519.499,"body":"roughly 90% of the billions of"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":519.559,"endTime":522.759,"body":"dollars we spent on transmission"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":519.559,"endTime":522.759,"body":"lines has been on lower voltage"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":522.909,"endTime":526.149,"body":"reliability upgrades, which is"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":522.909,"endTime":526.149,"body":"not to say that we don't need to"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":526.209,"endTime":529.839,"body":"be investing in those projects,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":526.209,"endTime":529.839,"body":"but has all of that spending"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":530.229,"endTime":536.379,"body":"been prudent, and have have we"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":530.229,"endTime":536.379,"body":"been taking advantage of the"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":536.619,"endTime":540.309,"body":"competitive process as much as"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":536.619,"endTime":540.309,"body":"we could be? I think the answer"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":540.369,"endTime":545.489,"body":"is pretty clearly no, and so"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":540.369,"endTime":545.489,"body":"we've seen where competition has"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":545.729,"endTime":549.899,"body":"been enabled, that it's resulted"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":545.729,"endTime":549.899,"body":"in all sorts of consumer"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":549.989,"endTime":556.409,"body":"benefits, cost savings,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":549.989,"endTime":556.409,"body":"innovation, but it hasn't. There"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":556.679,"endTime":562.309,"body":"are barriers to realizing those"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":556.679,"endTime":562.309,"body":"benefits based on the way that"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":562.369,"endTime":566.089,"body":"transmission has been has been"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":562.369,"endTime":566.089,"body":"planned and built, so I think"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":566.119,"endTime":571.129,"body":"keeping it there can be this"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":566.119,"endTime":571.129,"body":"sort of, you know, as we're"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":571.249,"endTime":573.949,"body":"thinking about affordability,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":571.249,"endTime":573.949,"body":"thinking about ways that we can"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":574.939,"endTime":578.089,"body":"save consumers money, we also"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":574.939,"endTime":578.089,"body":"don't want to kind of"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":578.209,"endTime":580.539,"body":"overcorrect and say, oh, we"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":578.209,"endTime":580.539,"body":"should be turning away from"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":580.629,"endTime":583.419,"body":"transmission, we very much need"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":580.629,"endTime":583.419,"body":"transmission, but we need to be"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":583.599,"endTime":587.199,"body":"really careful and thoughtful"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":583.599,"endTime":587.199,"body":"about what we're building and"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":587.289,"endTime":589.029,"body":"how we're building it."},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":589.18,"endTime":591.85,"body":"Yeah, that's a great"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":589.18,"endTime":591.85,"body":"point. Building the right"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":591.94,"endTime":595.33,"body":"transmission reduces congestion"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":591.94,"endTime":595.33,"body":"and reduces consumer costs, and"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":595.45,"endTime":595.99,"body":"we like that."},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":596.95,"endTime":599.11,"body":"And congestion can"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":596.95,"endTime":599.11,"body":"get pretty pricey. There's been"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":599.23,"endTime":601.5,"body":"some reports recently. Recently,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":599.23,"endTime":601.5,"body":"about how much congestion on the"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":601.53,"endTime":605.4,"body":"PJM grid alone was costing, I"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":601.53,"endTime":605.4,"body":"think it was north of a billion"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":605.49,"endTime":610.08,"body":"dollars in the month of May,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":605.49,"endTime":610.08,"body":"according to 1/3-party person"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":610.11,"endTime":613.47,"body":"looking at the data. Pretty wild"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":610.11,"endTime":613.47,"body":"stuff. I feel like it's been a"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":613.53,"endTime":615.81,"body":"minute since I've been in the"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":613.53,"endTime":615.81,"body":"batting cages, but both of you"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":615.87,"endTime":618.24,"body":"were tossing me a softball, and"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":615.87,"endTime":618.24,"body":"I'm not going to just stand"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":618.3,"endTime":621.14,"body":"here, I'm going to take a cut at"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":618.3,"endTime":621.14,"body":"it. You were teeing up the data,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":621.29,"endTime":624.29,"body":"and there is a lot of data that"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":621.29,"endTime":624.29,"body":"looks at projects that were"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":624.38,"endTime":627.5,"body":"competitively bid and not"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":624.38,"endTime":627.5,"body":"competitively bid, what their"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":627.56,"endTime":630.68,"body":"timelines looked like, what"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":627.56,"endTime":630.68,"body":"their costs look like. Paul, do"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":630.71,"endTime":633.11,"body":"you want to start with what your"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":630.71,"endTime":633.11,"body":"organization that you chair,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":633.26,"endTime":636.56,"body":"etc. looked at? And then,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":633.26,"endTime":636.56,"body":"Caitlin, if you want to talk a"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":636.59,"endTime":639.71,"body":"little bit about what the think"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":636.59,"endTime":639.71,"body":"tank R Street just put out"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":639.8,"endTime":643.18,"body":"recently, as well as any other"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":639.8,"endTime":643.18,"body":"data points that you wanted to"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":643.24,"endTime":645.46,"body":"touch on, Paul, but let's start"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":643.24,"endTime":645.46,"body":"with your organization. What did"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":645.52,"endTime":647.68,"body":"you guys find when you really"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":645.52,"endTime":647.68,"body":"looked at these projects?"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":648.28,"endTime":656.05,"body":"Yeah, well, like in"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":648.28,"endTime":656.05,"body":"PJM, for example, 10 years ago"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":656.44,"endTime":662.43,"body":"transmission costs were around"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":656.44,"endTime":662.43,"body":"4% Okay, and now it's around 27%"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":663.36,"endTime":666.72,"body":"of the total cost of"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":663.36,"endTime":666.72,"body":"transmission, that total cost of"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":666.87,"endTime":674.94,"body":"electricity, but we looked at,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":666.87,"endTime":674.94,"body":"for example, 19 projects that"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":674.97,"endTime":679.32,"body":"were not competitive, other"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":674.97,"endTime":679.32,"body":"words, the incumbent utility"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":679.77,"endTime":684.86,"body":"built them, and we found that"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":679.77,"endTime":684.86,"body":"there was an average cost"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":685.43,"endTime":694.16,"body":"overrun of 84% so not only did"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":685.43,"endTime":694.16,"body":"they not deliver the project at"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":694.16,"endTime":700.6,"body":"the original or estimated or"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":694.16,"endTime":700.6,"body":"approved cost, but they did not"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":700.63,"endTime":705.13,"body":"have any cost containment"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":700.63,"endTime":705.13,"body":"provisions in these agreements,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":706.24,"endTime":710.74,"body":"and there were cost overruns."},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":706.24,"endTime":710.74,"body":"Just those projects cost"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":710.77,"endTime":719.29,"body":"consumers an increase of $4.8"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":710.77,"endTime":719.29,"body":"billion Now we looked at 19"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":720.04,"endTime":724.92,"body":"relatively recent projects that"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":720.04,"endTime":724.92,"body":"were competitive, and we saw an"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":724.98,"endTime":729.15,"body":"average cost reduction of 38%"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":724.98,"endTime":729.15,"body":"for those 19 projects. It saved"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":729.24,"endTime":733.89,"body":"consumers $4.9 billion So, these"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":729.24,"endTime":733.89,"body":"are this is real money."},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":736.11,"endTime":738.36,"body":"Caitlin, how does"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":736.11,"endTime":738.36,"body":"that stack up to what our street"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":738.45,"endTime":741.53,"body":"found and what you and your"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":738.45,"endTime":741.53,"body":"organization have learned about"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":741.92,"endTime":743.21,"body":"the role of competitive bidding."},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":744.02,"endTime":746.51,"body":"Yeah, so first"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":744.02,"endTime":746.51,"body":"of all, I'll note that there's"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":746.93,"endTime":751.04,"body":"unfortunately not a ton of data"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":746.93,"endTime":751.04,"body":"available, because, like, we"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":751.16,"endTime":753.74,"body":"talked about, there's there's"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":751.16,"endTime":753.74,"body":"barriers to competition, and"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":753.77,"endTime":758.03,"body":"also the data is just spotty,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":753.77,"endTime":758.03,"body":"but but our street looked at"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":758.54,"endTime":765.16,"body":"projects that went into service"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":758.54,"endTime":765.16,"body":"across, let me make sure I get"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":765.25,"endTime":769.81,"body":"my, my years right here."},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":765.25,"endTime":769.81,"body":"Projects that went in service"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":769.99,"endTime":773.71,"body":"after January 2018 with costs"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":769.99,"endTime":773.71,"body":"above 50 million, and they"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":773.83,"endTime":778.99,"body":"looked at both cost and"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":773.83,"endTime":778.99,"body":"timelines, because I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":779.05,"endTime":781.65,"body":"we'll get into a recent"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":779.05,"endTime":781.65,"body":"complaint that was filed, that's"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":781.68,"endTime":784.68,"body":"alleging that competition adds"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":781.68,"endTime":784.68,"body":"time to the process, and they"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":784.77,"endTime":788.73,"body":"found on both, on both fronts,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":784.77,"endTime":788.73,"body":"that competition does deliver"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":788.82,"endTime":794.37,"body":"benefits, so on a cost basis,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":788.82,"endTime":794.37,"body":"that on average in the Misone"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":794.4,"endTime":799.17,"body":"SPP regions, that competition"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":794.4,"endTime":799.17,"body":"delivers 30% cost savings"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":799.29,"endTime":802.91,"body":"relative to incumbent projects"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":799.29,"endTime":802.91,"body":"on an on a sort of average"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":803.15,"endTime":808.07,"body":"basis, and that even when you"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":803.15,"endTime":808.07,"body":"count the time for competitive"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":808.13,"endTime":811.37,"body":"solicitation, that competitively"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":808.13,"endTime":811.37,"body":"big projects actually come in"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":811.58,"endTime":814.07,"body":"service faster, which means from"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":811.58,"endTime":814.07,"body":"the time that the need is"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":814.16,"endTime":817.52,"body":"identified to the time that the"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":814.16,"endTime":817.52,"body":"line is delivering electricity"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":817.67,"endTime":823.15,"body":"and is in service, that that"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":817.67,"endTime":823.15,"body":"timeline is faster, and I think"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":824.44,"endTime":829.24,"body":"if you think about the way that"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":824.44,"endTime":829.24,"body":"competition works, this makes"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":829.33,"endTime":831.4,"body":"sense, because there's an"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":829.33,"endTime":831.4,"body":"incentive, and there's actually"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":831.49,"endTime":835.48,"body":"in the bidding process built"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":831.49,"endTime":835.48,"body":"into that opportunities for"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":835.66,"endTime":839.56,"body":"competitive developers as"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":835.66,"endTime":839.56,"body":"they're trying to win a project"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":840.1,"endTime":843.72,"body":"to include cost guarantees and"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":840.1,"endTime":843.72,"body":"schedule guarantees that then"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":843.93,"endTime":846.42,"body":"they're held to, and so they"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":843.93,"endTime":846.42,"body":"have a clear incentive to come"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":846.66,"endTime":850.62,"body":"in on time and on budget,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":846.66,"endTime":850.62,"body":"because they're not going to,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":850.71,"endTime":854.64,"body":"you know, maybe they've agreed"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":850.71,"endTime":854.64,"body":"to an ROE reduction, and so they"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":854.73,"endTime":857.07,"body":"have, they have a financial"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":854.73,"endTime":857.07,"body":"incentive as well as a"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":857.13,"endTime":862.13,"body":"reputational incentive to come"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":857.13,"endTime":862.13,"body":"in on time and on budget, and"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":862.13,"endTime":864.77,"body":"that's what we've seen, you"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":862.13,"endTime":864.77,"body":"know, of course, there are"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":864.83,"endTime":868.04,"body":"different projects that that run"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":864.83,"endTime":868.04,"body":"into different hurdles, but on"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":868.22,"endTime":871.34,"body":"at, on an average basis, and"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":868.22,"endTime":871.34,"body":"that happens to incumbent"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":871.4,"endTime":873.92,"body":"projects as well. All of these"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":871.4,"endTime":873.92,"body":"projects face the same"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":874.07,"endTime":881.98,"body":"permitting and and and supply"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":874.07,"endTime":881.98,"body":"chain challenges, but we've seen"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":882.28,"endTime":885.91,"body":"the competitive projects often"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":882.28,"endTime":885.91,"body":"coming in ahead of schedule,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":886.27,"endTime":890.65,"body":"despite those challenges, and at"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":886.27,"endTime":890.65,"body":"or under budget, and when they"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":890.8,"endTime":894.7,"body":"are over budget, the competitive"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":890.8,"endTime":894.7,"body":"developers often sort of eating"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":894.82,"endTime":897.46,"body":"those costs and not passing them"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":894.82,"endTime":897.46,"body":"body to rate payers."},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":898.06,"endTime":900.12,"body":"Yeah, I'd like to"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":898.06,"endTime":900.12,"body":"emphasize something to Kate. And"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":900.18,"endTime":903.6,"body":"touched on is that when you run"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":900.18,"endTime":903.6,"body":"through a competitive process,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":904.47,"endTime":911.34,"body":"you have utilities that want the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":904.47,"endTime":911.34,"body":"business competing, so they"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":911.46,"endTime":915.9,"body":"sharpen their pencil and they"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":911.46,"endTime":915.9,"body":"put cost containment provisions"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":916.23,"endTime":921.35,"body":"in their bid quite often,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":916.23,"endTime":921.35,"body":"instead of asking for a, for"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":921.38,"endTime":926.96,"body":"example, a 12% ROE, they'll ask"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":921.38,"endTime":926.96,"body":"for except 11 or accept a 10,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":928.55,"endTime":932.9,"body":"and as Caitlin points out, many"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":928.55,"endTime":932.9,"body":"of these competitive bidders"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":933.14,"endTime":937.04,"body":"will say, okay, I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":933.14,"endTime":937.04,"body":"deliver this project on time,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":937.1,"endTime":941.23,"body":"and if I don't, I will take a"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":937.1,"endTime":941.23,"body":"cost penalty, if you're a"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":941.62,"endTime":947.14,"body":"monopoly incumbent utility"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":941.62,"endTime":947.14,"body":"without competition, you have"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":947.38,"endTime":952.42,"body":"zero incentive to reduce costs."},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":947.38,"endTime":952.42,"body":"You have zero incentive to put"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":952.66,"endTime":956.83,"body":"in writing these cost"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":952.66,"endTime":956.83,"body":"containment and penalties, and"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":956.86,"endTime":961.05,"body":"that's that is why we are seeing"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":956.86,"endTime":961.05,"body":"it's contributing to hire much"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":961.14,"endTime":962.73,"body":"higher cause, I"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":962.819,"endTime":964.949,"body":"had a conversation"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":962.819,"endTime":964.949,"body":"with my wife this morning when"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":964.979,"endTime":967.679,"body":"we brought our daughter to"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":964.979,"endTime":967.679,"body":"daycare about this very topic,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":967.859,"endTime":970.709,"body":"and her initial response,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":967.859,"endTime":970.709,"body":"someone completely removed from"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":970.709,"endTime":973.469,"body":"the energy industry, or any part"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":970.709,"endTime":973.469,"body":"of this conversation, is just,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":974.189,"endTime":976.049,"body":"yeah, of course, wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":974.189,"endTime":976.049,"body":"competition be better, and"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":976.049,"endTime":979.349,"body":"everything, it's like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":976.049,"endTime":979.349,"body":"if Walmart and Kmart were both"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":979.439,"endTime":981.769,"body":"going to offer you the same"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":979.439,"endTime":981.769,"body":"item, and one of them was going"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":981.799,"endTime":984.409,"body":"to price it differently. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":981.799,"endTime":984.409,"body":"it's just like anything, right?"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":984.409,"endTime":987.499,"body":"It seems like common sense."},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":984.409,"endTime":987.499,"body":"There are nuances to that, of"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":987.559,"endTime":990.559,"body":"course, but the big sticking"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":987.559,"endTime":990.559,"body":"point seems to be, you know,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":991.279,"endTime":993.889,"body":"what are the real savings here?"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":991.279,"endTime":993.889,"body":"How does that 30% that our"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":994.039,"endTime":998.209,"body":"street found, Paul, how does"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":994.039,"endTime":998.209,"body":"that square with what etc see"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":998.329,"endTime":1002.099,"body":"found in terms of like average"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":998.329,"endTime":1002.099,"body":"cost, you know, saved per"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1002.219,"endTime":1002.729,"body":"project,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1003.09,"endTime":1003.6,"body":"very similar."},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1004.14,"endTime":1004.2,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1004.44,"endTime":1006.69,"body":"very similar. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1004.44,"endTime":1006.69,"body":"and also there was a Brattle"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1006.78,"endTime":1009.63,"body":"report that was done, what, four"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1006.78,"endTime":1009.63,"body":"or five years ago, that came up"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1009.72,"endTime":1015.84,"body":"with the same estimate, up to"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1009.72,"endTime":1015.84,"body":"40% reductions. So, yes, very"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1016.14,"endTime":1017.88,"body":"consistent numbers."},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1018.57,"endTime":1020.27,"body":"And for those who"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1018.57,"endTime":1020.27,"body":"don't follow this space, we're"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1020.3,"endTime":1023.39,"body":"not talking about a $10 million"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1020.3,"endTime":1023.39,"body":"project here. I mean, Caitlin"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1023.48,"endTime":1026.6,"body":"referenced projects north of 50"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1023.48,"endTime":1026.6,"body":"million, and a lot of these are"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1026.66,"endTime":1029.63,"body":"in the 10s or hundreds of"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1026.66,"endTime":1029.63,"body":"millions, if not billions of"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1029.96,"endTime":1030.11,"body":"dollars."},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1030.2,"endTime":1032.12,"body":"We're talking"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1030.2,"endTime":1032.12,"body":"billions, most of these in"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1032.27,"endTime":1033.35,"body":"billions. Yes,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1034.1,"endTime":1036.83,"body":"yeah, big, big, big,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1034.1,"endTime":1036.83,"body":"big, big, big projects, and that"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1036.86,"endTime":1040.13,"body":"means big savings. One of the"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1036.86,"endTime":1040.13,"body":"other things that our street"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1040.19,"endTime":1042.61,"body":"pointed out that I wanted to"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1040.19,"endTime":1042.61,"body":"bring up is that according to"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1042.7,"endTime":1046.99,"body":"their findings they saw no"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1042.7,"endTime":1046.99,"body":"evidence that competitive"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1047.02,"endTime":1051.22,"body":"transmission actually added time"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1047.02,"endTime":1051.22,"body":"to the timelines. We've seen"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1051.34,"endTime":1054.4,"body":"some data that pushes back at"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1051.34,"endTime":1054.4,"body":"that, and I'll get into that in"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1054.46,"endTime":1057.25,"body":"a minute, but I would love to"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1054.46,"endTime":1057.25,"body":"get your opinions, both of you,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1057.85,"endTime":1062.7,"body":"about the idea that competition"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1057.85,"endTime":1062.7,"body":"does or doesn't add time, and I"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1062.76,"endTime":1064.26,"body":"know that you're going to team"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1062.76,"endTime":1064.26,"body":"me up for that utility"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1064.32,"endTime":1066.66,"body":"conversation. We're going to get"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1064.32,"endTime":1066.66,"body":"there in just a second about how"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1066.81,"endTime":1069.45,"body":"some Midwest utilities are"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1066.81,"endTime":1069.45,"body":"pushing back against competitive"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1069.51,"endTime":1072.06,"body":"bidding, but your thoughts on"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1069.51,"endTime":1072.06,"body":"our streets findings first."},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1074.79,"endTime":1074.85,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1074.97,"endTime":1076.74,"body":"I'm happy to"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1074.97,"endTime":1076.74,"body":"jump in. I mean, similar to"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1077.1,"endTime":1080.3,"body":"cost, developers are building"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1077.1,"endTime":1080.3,"body":"in, in the comp, in the"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1080.39,"endTime":1082.82,"body":"competitive process, they're"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1080.39,"endTime":1082.82,"body":"building in schedule guarantees"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1083.0,"endTime":1085.55,"body":"too, so they're they're"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1083.0,"endTime":1085.55,"body":"committing to delivering"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1085.61,"endTime":1088.97,"body":"something on schedule. I also"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1085.61,"endTime":1088.97,"body":"think to the conversation that"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1088.97,"endTime":1092.03,"body":"you had with your wife, at just"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1088.97,"endTime":1092.03,"body":"the sort of the logic of"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1092.12,"endTime":1095.48,"body":"competition, if you have this"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1092.12,"endTime":1095.48,"body":"competitive, if you know that"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1095.57,"endTime":1101.05,"body":"you could lose a future project,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1095.57,"endTime":1101.05,"body":"or you're competing to to be"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1101.26,"endTime":1104.56,"body":"able to build these projects,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1101.26,"endTime":1104.56,"body":"you are incentivized to meet"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1104.65,"endTime":1110.02,"body":"those, those requirements, and"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1104.65,"endTime":1110.02,"body":"to be in this competitive"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1110.08,"endTime":1114.04,"body":"bidding process, to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1110.08,"endTime":1114.04,"body":"sharp, as Paul said, sharpen"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1114.07,"endTime":1118.24,"body":"your pencil and say, what is the"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1114.07,"endTime":1118.24,"body":"best that I can offer in terms"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1118.3,"endTime":1122.07,"body":"of a schedule guarantee, and"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1118.3,"endTime":1122.07,"body":"what we hear from our member"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1122.16,"endTime":1125.07,"body":"companies that are competitive"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1122.16,"endTime":1125.07,"body":"transmission developers is this,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1125.4,"endTime":1127.56,"body":"these guarantees are kind of"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1125.4,"endTime":1127.56,"body":"table stakes now, and so"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1127.62,"endTime":1131.91,"body":"developers are are getting"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1127.62,"endTime":1131.91,"body":"creative on what are what are we"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1132.03,"endTime":1136.29,"body":"willing to offer in terms of"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1132.03,"endTime":1136.29,"body":"what we can, what we can commit"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1136.41,"endTime":1139.8,"body":"to, and like I said, all all of"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1136.41,"endTime":1139.8,"body":"these projects are going to face"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1139.86,"endTime":1143.0,"body":"the same challenges with"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1139.86,"endTime":1143.0,"body":"permitting and supply chains,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1143.06,"endTime":1146.36,"body":"that's not unique to the"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1143.06,"endTime":1146.36,"body":"competitive process or the the"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1146.81,"endTime":1149.45,"body":"incumbent process, that's"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1146.81,"endTime":1149.45,"body":"something we need to address as"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1149.51,"endTime":1152.72,"body":"a challenge to transmission"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1149.51,"endTime":1152.72,"body":"development across the board,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1153.11,"endTime":1156.83,"body":"but if we're sort of isolating"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1153.11,"endTime":1156.83,"body":"the issue of competition, there"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1156.92,"endTime":1160.48,"body":"are some real benefits that it"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1156.92,"endTime":1160.48,"body":"can provide in terms of just the"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1160.6,"endTime":1164.89,"body":"incentive to deliver on or ahead"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1160.6,"endTime":1164.89,"body":"of schedule."},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1165.49,"endTime":1169.87,"body":"Yeah, etc. is very"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1165.49,"endTime":1169.87,"body":"grateful for our street, you"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1169.9,"endTime":1173.41,"body":"know. Our street started this"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1169.9,"endTime":1173.41,"body":"report more than about a year"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1173.53,"endTime":1178.24,"body":"ago, is when they started"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1173.53,"endTime":1178.24,"body":"investigating this, and so the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1178.66,"endTime":1181.83,"body":"timing of them coming forward"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1178.66,"endTime":1181.83,"body":"with the report, the data that"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1182.04,"endTime":1187.65,"body":"Caitlin's talking about was just"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1182.04,"endTime":1187.65,"body":"really wonderful because of the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1187.8,"endTime":1194.13,"body":"complaint by the nine SPP and"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1187.8,"endTime":1194.13,"body":"MISO utilities, but one of the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1194.13,"endTime":1198.54,"body":"things that I want to get to"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1194.13,"endTime":1198.54,"body":"with R Street, why it took them"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1198.72,"endTime":1208.07,"body":"so long. Is the the non"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1198.72,"endTime":1208.07,"body":"transparency of the process the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1208.22,"endTime":1214.04,"body":"this say public policy issue all"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1208.22,"endTime":1214.04,"body":"of this data transmission costs"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1214.97,"endTime":1217.73,"body":"should be very transparent"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1214.97,"endTime":1217.73,"body":"because I mean after all"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1218.03,"endTime":1221.74,"body":"policymakers are are interested"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1218.03,"endTime":1221.74,"body":"in affordability, and rate"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1221.8,"endTime":1224.77,"body":"payers automatically getting"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1221.8,"endTime":1224.77,"body":"these costs passed on to them."},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1225.13,"endTime":1228.76,"body":"Shouldn't there be a form of"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1225.13,"endTime":1228.76,"body":"accountability? Well, what our"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1228.85,"endTime":1232.15,"body":"street confirms is that there's"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1228.85,"endTime":1232.15,"body":"really a lack of transparency,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1232.6,"endTime":1234.88,"body":"and that's one of the policy"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1232.6,"endTime":1234.88,"body":"issues that I know my"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1235.06,"endTime":1239.62,"body":"organization is pushing, so that"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1235.06,"endTime":1239.62,"body":"it's easy to see what is"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1239.71,"endTime":1241.65,"body":"happening with these projects,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1243.84,"endTime":1247.38,"body":"I'm glad you brought"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1243.84,"endTime":1247.38,"body":"that up, Paul, because that is a"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1247.44,"endTime":1249.84,"body":"big part of this conversation,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1247.44,"endTime":1249.84,"body":"right, where it seems like a"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1249.96,"endTime":1252.66,"body":"no-brainer to us, and where it's"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1249.96,"endTime":1252.66,"body":"like, well, shouldn't people"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1252.78,"endTime":1255.87,"body":"know about what it is that their"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1252.78,"endTime":1255.87,"body":"money is being, but as you"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1255.93,"endTime":1258.27,"body":"mentioned, with the loophole you"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1255.93,"endTime":1258.27,"body":"mentioned at the very top, there"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1258.36,"endTime":1261.71,"body":"are inner workings to the"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1258.36,"endTime":1261.71,"body":"underbelly of the machine that"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1261.74,"endTime":1264.38,"body":"we're not privy to, and I'm glad"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1261.74,"endTime":1264.38,"body":"that you, you're sort of"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1264.41,"endTime":1267.53,"body":"flagging them. We've talked"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1264.41,"endTime":1267.53,"body":"about this complaint now, like"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1267.59,"endTime":1269.27,"body":"three different times in"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1267.59,"endTime":1269.27,"body":"passing, and haven't fully"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1269.3,"endTime":1271.97,"body":"addressed it, so I got to just"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1269.3,"endTime":1271.97,"body":"dive into that pool. So, back in"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1272.15,"endTime":1275.78,"body":"April, Entergy, Excel, and seven"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1272.15,"endTime":1275.78,"body":"other utilities, the group of"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1275.84,"endTime":1279.98,"body":"nine that Paul mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1275.84,"endTime":1279.98,"body":"lobbied to FERC to stop putting"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1280.1,"endTime":1285.79,"body":"bids in MISO and SBP regions"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1280.1,"endTime":1285.79,"body":"saying competitive transmission"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1286.09,"endTime":1291.58,"body":"adds 16 to 20 months to"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1286.09,"endTime":1291.58,"body":"timelines, and we know what a"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1291.79,"endTime":1295.24,"body":"soft spot timeliness is right"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1291.79,"endTime":1295.24,"body":"now, and if you were just"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1295.27,"endTime":1299.71,"body":"looking at the executive summary"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1295.27,"endTime":1299.71,"body":"of that report and said 16 to 20"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1299.77,"endTime":1302.91,"body":"months added, forget competitive"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1299.77,"endTime":1302.91,"body":"transmission. No way, we're"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1303.03,"endTime":1307.41,"body":"looking at that as an option."},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1303.03,"endTime":1307.41,"body":"However, lawmakers in those"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1307.5,"endTime":1310.8,"body":"states are pushing back at this"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1307.5,"endTime":1310.8,"body":"and saying, wait a second,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1310.86,"endTime":1314.46,"body":"something stinks in Denmark,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1310.86,"endTime":1314.46,"body":"Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Montana,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1314.79,"endTime":1317.64,"body":"Oklahoma, all of them saying no,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1314.79,"endTime":1317.64,"body":"no, no, no, we think there's"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1317.7,"endTime":1320.93,"body":"value in competitive"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1317.7,"endTime":1320.93,"body":"transmission, let's tackle this."},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1321.32,"endTime":1324.65,"body":"What is the utility's real"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1321.32,"endTime":1324.65,"body":"complaint here? Do they have a"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1324.74,"endTime":1328.34,"body":"leg to stand on, and is there"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1324.74,"endTime":1328.34,"body":"any validity to that 16 to 20"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1328.46,"endTime":1331.07,"body":"month timeline edition? Because"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1328.46,"endTime":1331.07,"body":"that doesn't really seem to jive"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1331.16,"endTime":1332.78,"body":"with the other data we just"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1331.16,"endTime":1332.78,"body":"talked about."},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1332.87,"endTime":1335.03,"body":"If it's okay, let me"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1332.87,"endTime":1335.03,"body":"jump in first. If you're"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1335.12,"endTime":1336.17,"body":"chopping at the bit,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1335.12,"endTime":1336.17,"body":"get in there."},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1336.38,"endTime":1341.59,"body":"I am, I mean, these"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1336.38,"endTime":1341.59,"body":"nine incumbent monopoly"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1341.68,"endTime":1346.33,"body":"utilities that filed the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1341.68,"endTime":1346.33,"body":"complaint. What they're really"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1346.66,"endTime":1351.61,"body":"asking FERC to do is to protect"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1346.66,"endTime":1351.61,"body":"them from having to compete."},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1353.62,"endTime":1358.69,"body":"It's asking FERC to protect"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1353.62,"endTime":1358.69,"body":"their future profits. This is a"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1358.78,"endTime":1362.94,"body":"group of utilities that are I'm"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1358.78,"endTime":1362.94,"body":"going to use the word colluding"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1363.51,"endTime":1367.56,"body":"to increase electricity prices"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1363.51,"endTime":1367.56,"body":"on unsuspecting, unknowing"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1368.1,"endTime":1373.11,"body":"captive ratepayers, you know,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1368.1,"endTime":1373.11,"body":"and the Federal Power Act is the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1373.26,"endTime":1378.12,"body":"law of the land, and FERC has a"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1373.26,"endTime":1378.12,"body":"responsibility to deliver just"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1378.18,"endTime":1383.69,"body":"and reasonable rates to protect"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1378.18,"endTime":1383.69,"body":"the consumer, and I will be"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1384.05,"endTime":1390.5,"body":"shocked if FERC doesn't step up"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1384.05,"endTime":1390.5,"body":"and see this for what it"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1390.499,"endTime":1391.219,"body":"is. Caitlin, your"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1390.499,"endTime":1391.219,"body":"thoughts?"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1391.88,"endTime":1395.42,"body":"Yeah, I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1391.88,"endTime":1395.42,"body":"think, as we've talked about in"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1395.48,"endTime":1399.14,"body":"various different ways since"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1395.48,"endTime":1399.14,"body":"FERC mandated competition in"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1399.23,"endTime":1403.51,"body":"order 1000 there have been"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1399.23,"endTime":1403.51,"body":"efforts, whether it's by passing"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1403.63,"endTime":1406.93,"body":"state right of first refusal"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1403.63,"endTime":1406.93,"body":"laws that give utilities the"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1407.95,"endTime":1414.07,"body":"right, the first right to"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1407.95,"endTime":1414.07,"body":"develop a project, or by finding"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1414.16,"endTime":1417.37,"body":"other ways to circumvent the"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1414.16,"endTime":1417.37,"body":"competitive process. I think"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1417.4,"endTime":1421.86,"body":"this is another example of"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1417.4,"endTime":1421.86,"body":"utilities, you know, really much"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1422.04,"endTime":1424.71,"body":"easier to just get to build"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1422.04,"endTime":1424.71,"body":"everything and not have to"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1425.25,"endTime":1429.45,"body":"compete for it. Their argument"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1425.25,"endTime":1429.45,"body":"in the complaint is this 16 to"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1429.54,"endTime":1431.61,"body":"20 month. They're they're"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1429.54,"endTime":1431.61,"body":"focused on the solicitation"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1432.09,"endTime":1437.34,"body":"process, so the process of of"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1432.09,"endTime":1437.34,"body":"going out to bid and selecting a"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1437.46,"endTime":1442.16,"body":"project that is unique to the"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1437.46,"endTime":1442.16,"body":"competitive process, they're"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1442.22,"endTime":1446.66,"body":"arguing that that window of time"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1442.22,"endTime":1446.66,"body":"that they say is 16 to 20"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1446.75,"endTime":1451.97,"body":"months, that that is untenable"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1446.75,"endTime":1451.97,"body":"in this era of speed to power,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1453.47,"endTime":1457.22,"body":"they don't tackle, and why I"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1453.47,"endTime":1457.22,"body":"think the R Street data is"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1457.52,"endTime":1461.26,"body":"really important here, and that"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1457.52,"endTime":1461.26,"body":"the actual track record that"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1461.38,"endTime":1464.35,"body":"shows that on average"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1461.38,"endTime":1464.35,"body":"competitive projects, even if"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1464.41,"endTime":1468.7,"body":"you count that solicitation"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1464.41,"endTime":1468.7,"body":"window, still come in faster"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1468.94,"endTime":1474.1,"body":"than incumbent projects, and"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1468.94,"endTime":1474.1,"body":"there's also, you know, I think"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1474.25,"endTime":1478.06,"body":"even MISO pushed back. MISO is"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1474.25,"endTime":1478.06,"body":"sort of neutral in this, they're"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1478.3,"endTime":1482.37,"body":"the independent planner, they"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1478.3,"endTime":1482.37,"body":"pushed back on the 16 to 20"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1482.7,"endTime":1488.34,"body":"month window that that does not"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1482.7,"endTime":1488.34,"body":"comport with their sense of how"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1488.49,"endTime":1494.76,"body":"their solicitation process has"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1488.49,"endTime":1494.76,"body":"operated, so I think you know we"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1494.91,"endTime":1499.2,"body":"would take issue with the time"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1494.91,"endTime":1499.2,"body":"that they say that solicitation"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1499.32,"endTime":1503.51,"body":"process. Critiques, but then"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1499.32,"endTime":1503.51,"body":"they haven't, they haven't, they"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1503.54,"endTime":1507.62,"body":"don't deal with the, the overall"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1503.54,"endTime":1507.62,"body":"in-service timeline, which is"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1507.71,"endTime":1510.32,"body":"really what you care about, if"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1507.71,"endTime":1510.32,"body":"you care about speed to power,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1511.25,"endTime":1514.19,"body":"and one thing, Advanced Energy"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1511.25,"endTime":1514.19,"body":"United, along with many others,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1514.55,"endTime":1517.46,"body":"submitted a protest in response"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1514.55,"endTime":1517.46,"body":"to this complaint, and one of"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1517.55,"endTime":1521.02,"body":"the things that we pointed out"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1517.55,"endTime":1521.02,"body":"is we disagree with, with what,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1521.29,"endTime":1524.26,"body":"what they're, the case that"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1521.29,"endTime":1524.26,"body":"they're making, that that it's a"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1524.32,"endTime":1527.38,"body":"16 to 20 month process, that"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1524.32,"endTime":1527.38,"body":"competition slows things down,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1527.8,"endTime":1531.61,"body":"but if FERC agrees that speed to"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1527.8,"endTime":1531.61,"body":"power is imperative, and that we"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1531.7,"endTime":1535.18,"body":"need to be doing more to speed"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1531.7,"endTime":1535.18,"body":"up competition, let's shrink"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1535.27,"endTime":1538.06,"body":"that, we don't think it's 16 or"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1535.27,"endTime":1538.06,"body":"20 months, but let's shrink that"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1538.18,"endTime":1542.19,"body":"solicitation process rather than"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1538.18,"endTime":1542.19,"body":"saying we're going to get rid of"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1542.25,"endTime":1545.73,"body":"competition, because we already"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1542.25,"endTime":1545.73,"body":"know competition, even when you"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1545.79,"endTime":1548.82,"body":"count that, that slice of the"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1545.79,"endTime":1548.82,"body":"overall development window, that"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1548.85,"endTime":1551.28,"body":"it speeds things up, so we can,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1548.85,"endTime":1551.28,"body":"we could speed that up, the"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1551.31,"endTime":1553.65,"body":"competitive process would be"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1551.31,"endTime":1553.65,"body":"even that much faster than the"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1553.68,"endTime":1559.02,"body":"incumbent process, so it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1553.68,"endTime":1559.02,"body":"both sort of, I think, a"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1559.08,"endTime":1562.31,"body":"misguided interpretation of"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1559.08,"endTime":1562.31,"body":"what's happening, that that"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1562.37,"endTime":1566.15,"body":"competition is slowing things"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1562.37,"endTime":1566.15,"body":"down by just focusing on the"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1566.42,"endTime":1569.36,"body":"time it takes for solicitation,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1566.42,"endTime":1569.36,"body":"and then if you want to solve"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1569.48,"endTime":1572.33,"body":"that, you're focused on the"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1569.48,"endTime":1572.33,"body":"solicitation timeline. Let's"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1572.45,"endTime":1575.3,"body":"shrink the solicitation timeline"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1572.45,"endTime":1575.3,"body":"and improve that, rather than"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1575.87,"endTime":1579.11,"body":"getting rid of competition and"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1575.87,"endTime":1579.11,"body":"losing both the schedule and the"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1579.17,"endTime":1583.03,"body":"cost benefits that that that"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1579.17,"endTime":1583.03,"body":"delivers."},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1583.3,"endTime":1585.34,"body":"Yeah, don't throw"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1583.3,"endTime":1585.34,"body":"the baby out with the bathwater."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1585.429,"endTime":1585.909,"body":"Exactly,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1586.57,"endTime":1590.05,"body":"yeah, yeah. Well,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1586.57,"endTime":1590.05,"body":"Caitlin is exactly right. FERC"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1590.38,"endTime":1596.65,"body":"has a toolbox. Well, that's"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1590.38,"endTime":1596.65,"body":"that's their job. If things"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1596.77,"endTime":1601.53,"body":"don't work, fix it. Now, what"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1596.77,"endTime":1601.53,"body":"I'm saying is the process is"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1601.8,"endTime":1606.33,"body":"working, but can the competitive"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1601.8,"endTime":1606.33,"body":"process is working. It's not"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1606.36,"endTime":1610.89,"body":"really delaying delivery of the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1606.36,"endTime":1610.89,"body":"actual projects. It is resulting"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1610.98,"endTime":1615.09,"body":"in cost reductions, but if in"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1610.98,"endTime":1615.09,"body":"their judgment, if in FERC's"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1615.24,"endTime":1619.11,"body":"judgment, they feel that for"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1615.24,"endTime":1619.11,"body":"speed to power that they want to"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1619.14,"endTime":1622.46,"body":"speed things up, well, fine,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1619.14,"endTime":1622.46,"body":"they go back into the policy"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1622.61,"endTime":1630.8,"body":"toolbox and tune things up. I"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1622.61,"endTime":1630.8,"body":"know a number of companies who"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1632.0,"endTime":1634.7,"body":"compete to build these"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1632.0,"endTime":1634.7,"body":"transmission lines, and I asked"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1634.7,"endTime":1638.75,"body":"them the question, Can the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1634.7,"endTime":1638.75,"body":"process at MISO, SPP, and these"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1638.87,"endTime":1642.31,"body":"other regions be improved? Of"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1638.87,"endTime":1642.31,"body":"course, yeah, can they be"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1642.43,"endTime":1648.43,"body":"faster? Yes. So you know, FERC"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1642.43,"endTime":1648.43,"body":"has that toolbox. It's their"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1648.49,"endTime":1653.29,"body":"responsibility for delivering"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1648.49,"endTime":1653.29,"body":"just and reasonable rates, and"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1654.07,"endTime":1657.58,"body":"and they have the tools to fix"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1654.07,"endTime":1657.58,"body":"it, if they fix it, if they feel"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1657.67,"endTime":1659.05,"body":"that they, it needs to be fixed."},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1660.19,"endTime":1662.37,"body":"Yeah, to me that's"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1660.19,"endTime":1662.37,"body":"the low hanging fruit is"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1662.67,"endTime":1665.61,"body":"shortening solicitation"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1662.67,"endTime":1665.61,"body":"processes to sort of appease"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1665.79,"endTime":1669.36,"body":"both sides, and if the utilities"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1665.79,"endTime":1669.36,"body":"at that point say, well, it's"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1669.42,"endTime":1673.77,"body":"not short enough, then then you"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1669.42,"endTime":1673.77,"body":"really know what the impetus"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1673.89,"endTime":1677.43,"body":"behind their complaint was in"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1673.89,"endTime":1677.43,"body":"the first place. I think that"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1677.79,"endTime":1679.83,"body":"there's an important part of"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1677.79,"endTime":1679.83,"body":"this issue that you just, you"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1679.92,"endTime":1683.54,"body":"just sort of mentioned Paul that"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1679.92,"endTime":1683.54,"body":"I had when I was digging into"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1683.54,"endTime":1686.69,"body":"this initially. One of my first"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1683.54,"endTime":1686.69,"body":"questions was, how many"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1686.93,"endTime":1689.3,"body":"companies actually do this?"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1686.93,"endTime":1689.3,"body":"Like, it's not - we're not"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1689.36,"endTime":1693.74,"body":"talking about a huge list of"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1689.36,"endTime":1693.74,"body":"people lining up to do massive"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1693.89,"endTime":1696.14,"body":"billion dollar transmission"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1693.89,"endTime":1696.14,"body":"projects. There's just a"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1696.23,"endTime":1699.38,"body":"handful, and we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1696.23,"endTime":1699.38,"body":"the large independent power"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1699.47,"endTime":1703.18,"body":"producers, the next eras of the"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1699.47,"endTime":1703.18,"body":"world types, so when we're"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1703.24,"endTime":1705.64,"body":"talking about, you know,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1703.24,"endTime":1705.64,"body":"solicitation windows that might"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1705.73,"endTime":1709.51,"body":"last close to two years, that"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1705.73,"endTime":1709.51,"body":"seems, it seems a little silly"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1709.66,"endTime":1712.0,"body":"from an outsider's perspective"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1709.66,"endTime":1712.0,"body":"to think that a handful of"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1712.06,"endTime":1714.46,"body":"companies bidding on a project"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1712.06,"endTime":1714.46,"body":"are really going to take that"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1714.52,"endTime":1716.65,"body":"long. Am I wrong in thinking"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1714.52,"endTime":1716.65,"body":"that the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1717.25,"endTime":1719.26,"body":"companies that are"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1717.25,"endTime":1719.26,"body":"competing to build these"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1719.53,"endTime":1724.38,"body":"projects are other utilities?"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1719.53,"endTime":1724.38,"body":"They're not fly-by-night"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1724.47,"endTime":1727.86,"body":"organizations. They are highly"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1724.47,"endTime":1727.86,"body":"qualified. They have built"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1727.98,"endTime":1733.98,"body":"transmission. They have operated"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1727.98,"endTime":1733.98,"body":"transmission, and so they are"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1734.07,"endTime":1740.87,"body":"professionals of what they do."},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1734.07,"endTime":1740.87,"body":"And I personally don't know how"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1741.02,"endTime":1745.34,"body":"many of them are out there. I"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1741.02,"endTime":1745.34,"body":"know probably there's at least"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1745.52,"endTime":1749.06,"body":"you can count as many on one"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1745.52,"endTime":1749.06,"body":"hand, but maybe Caitlin can add"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1749.12,"endTime":1750.02,"body":"a little color to that"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1751.67,"endTime":1753.53,"body":"total number."},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1751.67,"endTime":1753.53,"body":"But yeah, it's companies like"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1754.37,"endTime":1759.68,"body":"it's non-incumbents, like, you"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1754.37,"endTime":1759.68,"body":"know, Nextera Electricity"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1760.1,"endTime":1764.35,"body":"Transmission, Ellis Power, as"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1760.1,"endTime":1764.35,"body":"well as, as Paul said, some of"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1764.35,"endTime":1770.68,"body":"the, you know, the transmission"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1764.35,"endTime":1770.68,"body":"owners compete as well, and"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1770.71,"endTime":1772.87,"body":"sometimes have affiliates from"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1770.71,"endTime":1772.87,"body":"other regions. So, there's,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1773.14,"endTime":1777.16,"body":"there's, there are companies"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1773.14,"endTime":1777.16,"body":"with long track records of doing"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1777.25,"endTime":1781.68,"body":"this. It does take time, because"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1777.25,"endTime":1781.68,"body":"they're complex projects, so"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1781.77,"endTime":1785.25,"body":"there is there's going to be"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1781.77,"endTime":1785.25,"body":"time required to design them,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1785.34,"endTime":1787.65,"body":"and part of the benefit of the"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1785.34,"endTime":1787.65,"body":"competitive process is that"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1788.7,"endTime":1791.01,"body":"you're inviting alternative"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1788.7,"endTime":1791.01,"body":"solutions to, so you've"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1791.07,"endTime":1794.07,"body":"identified a problem, and and"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1791.07,"endTime":1794.07,"body":"then there does need to be a"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1794.13,"endTime":1798.33,"body":"process of checking that from"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1794.13,"endTime":1798.33,"body":"the RTO and verifying that it's"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1798.51,"endTime":1801.02,"body":"it's going to be reliable and."},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1798.51,"endTime":1801.02,"body":"Going to work, and it's going to"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1801.05,"endTime":1804.59,"body":"solve the problem, but all of"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1801.05,"endTime":1804.59,"body":"that, there's there's various"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1804.92,"endTime":1809.27,"body":"stages along the process, and"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1804.92,"endTime":1809.27,"body":"each one of those can sort of be"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1809.39,"endTime":1812.48,"body":"shortened, and actually,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1809.39,"endTime":1812.48,"body":"ironically, one of the stages is"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1812.48,"endTime":1815.3,"body":"sometimes there's information"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1812.48,"endTime":1815.3,"body":"needed from the incumbent"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1815.36,"endTime":1819.29,"body":"transmission owner, if there's"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1815.36,"endTime":1819.29,"body":"a, if there's some component of"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1819.44,"endTime":1822.07,"body":"the project that needs to"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1819.44,"endTime":1822.07,"body":"connect the system, or that"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1822.13,"endTime":1826.72,"body":"includes a non-competitive"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1822.13,"endTime":1826.72,"body":"element, and sometimes that can"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1826.78,"endTime":1829.36,"body":"be a lag in the process, where"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1826.78,"endTime":1829.36,"body":"you're just waiting for"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1829.42,"endTime":1833.56,"body":"information from the incumbent"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1829.42,"endTime":1833.56,"body":"transmission developer, so lots"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1833.62,"endTime":1838.33,"body":"of lots of places along the"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1833.62,"endTime":1838.33,"body":"process where things can be"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1838.48,"endTime":1842.64,"body":"tightened. There, there is"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1838.48,"endTime":1842.64,"body":"inherently some time needed for"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1842.73,"endTime":1847.38,"body":"these companies to develop"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1842.73,"endTime":1847.38,"body":"highly sophisticated, you know,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1847.44,"endTime":1850.62,"body":"as we're talking about huge"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1847.44,"endTime":1850.62,"body":"projects that can be quite"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1850.71,"endTime":1854.46,"body":"complex, but also can be"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":1850.71,"endTime":1854.46,"body":"tightened up."},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1856.53,"endTime":1859.86,"body":"Wanted to get into"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1856.53,"endTime":1859.86,"body":"FERC Order 1000 just a little"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1859.95,"endTime":1863.96,"body":"more. We've been talking about"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1859.95,"endTime":1863.96,"body":"it as if it's this albatross in"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1863.96,"endTime":1868.91,"body":"the room around since 2011 FERC"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1863.96,"endTime":1868.91,"body":"is supposed to be enforcing"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1868.97,"endTime":1871.67,"body":"this. Paul mentioned at the top"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1868.97,"endTime":1871.67,"body":"of the show the loophole that"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1871.76,"endTime":1876.92,"body":"utilities are using to"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1871.76,"endTime":1876.92,"body":"circumvent FERC Order 1000 How"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1877.19,"endTime":1881.5,"body":"can FERC better enforce that"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1877.19,"endTime":1881.5,"body":"rule? And should, should there"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1881.65,"endTime":1886.27,"body":"be more of a conversation about"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1881.65,"endTime":1886.27,"body":"them busting out that toolkit,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1886.36,"endTime":1889.0,"body":"as you put it, Paul, and"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1886.36,"endTime":1889.0,"body":"applying it to this problem"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1890.08,"endTime":1893.68,"body":"before it gets way worse? I"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1890.08,"endTime":1893.68,"body":"mean, I write all the time about"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1893.71,"endTime":1896.41,"body":"how we need two times the grid"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1893.71,"endTime":1896.41,"body":"we have, three times the grid we"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1896.5,"endTime":1898.9,"body":"have, four times the grid we"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1896.5,"endTime":1898.9,"body":"have, whatever it is, whatever"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1898.96,"endTime":1901.5,"body":"the pie in the sky demand growth"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1898.96,"endTime":1901.5,"body":"projection, you're looking at"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1901.59,"endTime":1904.89,"body":"that day of the week, says, and"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1901.59,"endTime":1904.89,"body":"it sounds like a lot of work"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1905.01,"endTime":1907.56,"body":"that we're not doing yet. There"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1905.01,"endTime":1907.56,"body":"was a report not that long ago"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1907.68,"endTime":1910.98,"body":"that said that we need something"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1907.68,"endTime":1910.98,"body":"around 5000 miles of new"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1911.07,"endTime":1913.98,"body":"transmission lines every year"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1911.07,"endTime":1913.98,"body":"through 2050 in order to meet"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1914.07,"endTime":1917.22,"body":"load growth goals. Well, guess"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1914.07,"endTime":1917.22,"body":"what, we've built 4000 miles of"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1917.22,"endTime":1920.27,"body":"transmission lines like once in"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1917.22,"endTime":1920.27,"body":"the last 20 years, so that's not"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1920.3,"endTime":1923.51,"body":"happening anytime soon. Forgive"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1920.3,"endTime":1923.51,"body":"me if I screwed those facts up a"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1923.57,"endTime":1926.66,"body":"little bit, but back to the"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1923.57,"endTime":1926.66,"body":"question originally, FERC order"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1926.75,"endTime":1931.1,"body":"1000 how do we better legislate,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1926.75,"endTime":1931.1,"body":"mandate, encourage competition"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1931.4,"endTime":1933.47,"body":"for these big projects, and in a"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":1931.4,"endTime":1933.47,"body":"timely manner?"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1935.18,"endTime":1938.72,"body":"Yeah, you know"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1935.18,"endTime":1938.72,"body":"something, I'm going to repeat"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1938.81,"endTime":1943.33,"body":"something that I already said,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1938.81,"endTime":1943.33,"body":"the Federal Power Act is a lot"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1943.39,"endTime":1949.33,"body":"of the land. FERC has the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1943.39,"endTime":1949.33,"body":"responsibility, the authority to"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1949.42,"endTime":1953.56,"body":"deliver just and reasonable"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1949.42,"endTime":1953.56,"body":"rates for consumers. In our"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1953.68,"endTime":1958.39,"body":"view, rates cannot be just and"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1953.68,"endTime":1958.39,"body":"reasonable unless these"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1958.48,"endTime":1961.35,"body":"transmission projects face"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1958.48,"endTime":1961.35,"body":"competition to reduce costs."},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1963.78,"endTime":1970.74,"body":"FERC needs to close that"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1963.78,"endTime":1970.74,"body":"loophole. This, I mean, we"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1972.87,"endTime":1979.08,"body":"utilities need a reliability"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1972.87,"endTime":1979.08,"body":"project label, but it's too"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1979.23,"endTime":1985.55,"body":"loose, and when it gets to, for"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1979.23,"endTime":1985.55,"body":"example, at MISO and SPP,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1988.25,"endTime":1992.96,"body":"they're not always abiding by"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1988.25,"endTime":1992.96,"body":"that three year rule, for"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1992.96,"endTime":2000.58,"body":"example, SPP just awarded very"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":1992.96,"endTime":2000.58,"body":"large projects that were labeled"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2000.64,"endTime":2003.15,"body":"as reliability, but they know"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2000.64,"endTime":2003.15,"body":"they're going to take six seven"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2003.24,"endTime":2008.52,"body":"years to build, and they're like"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2003.24,"endTime":2008.52,"body":"360 5k These are the big ones."},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2010.5,"endTime":2015.39,"body":"Does that qualify to escape"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2010.5,"endTime":2015.39,"body":"competition in our view? No, no,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2015.51,"endTime":2018.6,"body":"it doesn't. So they need to"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2015.51,"endTime":2018.6,"body":"tighten this down. They know"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2019.14,"endTime":2022.67,"body":"that they are being gained, that"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2019.14,"endTime":2022.67,"body":"the consumers are being gained,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2023.54,"endTime":2025.76,"body":"and these rates are not just and"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2023.54,"endTime":2025.76,"body":"reasonable, and they need to"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2026.03,"endTime":2026.18,"body":"act."},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2027.74,"endTime":2028.4,"body":"Caitlin, your"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2027.74,"endTime":2028.4,"body":"thoughts?"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2028.97,"endTime":2031.4,"body":"Yeah, another,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2028.97,"endTime":2031.4,"body":"another point to bring in here"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2033.11,"endTime":2037.19,"body":"is these, this set of projects"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2033.11,"endTime":2037.19,"body":"that aren't planned regionally"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2037.58,"endTime":2040.69,"body":"that are subject to very little"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2037.58,"endTime":2040.69,"body":"oversight, and there's this"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2041.59,"endTime":2048.64,"body":"could be a role for FERC and for"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2041.59,"endTime":2048.64,"body":"poor independent RTOS to play in"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2048.7,"endTime":2052.63,"body":"that, there can also be a role"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2048.7,"endTime":2052.63,"body":"for states to exercise a little"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2052.66,"endTime":2056.89,"body":"bit more oversight, or so this"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2052.66,"endTime":2056.89,"body":"category of spending on projects"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2056.92,"endTime":2060.84,"body":"that are planned locally but"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2056.92,"endTime":2060.84,"body":"recovered through FERC formula"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2061.17,"endTime":2064.89,"body":"rates that get very little"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2061.17,"endTime":2064.89,"body":"oversight. One interesting"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2064.98,"endTime":2068.97,"body":"development in New England, the"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2064.98,"endTime":2068.97,"body":"region is working on creating an"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2069.09,"endTime":2072.93,"body":"asset condition reviewer for"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2069.09,"endTime":2072.93,"body":"these asset condition projects,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2072.99,"endTime":2076.23,"body":"projects that are sort of end of"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2072.99,"endTime":2076.23,"body":"life replacement facilities that"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2076.8,"endTime":2080.01,"body":"basically generally just kind of"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2076.8,"endTime":2080.01,"body":"get rubber stamped. The region"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2080.04,"endTime":2084.92,"body":"is now developing an independent"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2080.04,"endTime":2084.92,"body":"entity within house within the"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2085.19,"endTime":2089.63,"body":"ISO to review those projects to"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2085.19,"endTime":2089.63,"body":"give states and consumer"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2089.78,"endTime":2092.45,"body":"advocates a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2089.78,"endTime":2092.45,"body":"transparency and information"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2092.51,"endTime":2095.87,"body":"going back to our conversation"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2092.51,"endTime":2095.87,"body":"about sort of data transparency,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2096.11,"endTime":2099.83,"body":"so this is one way to make sort"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2096.11,"endTime":2099.83,"body":"of paired with with good."},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2100.03,"endTime":2103.36,"body":"Regional planning to make sure"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2100.03,"endTime":2103.36,"body":"that we're also we're looking at"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2103.69,"endTime":2106.54,"body":"all parts of the transmission"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2103.69,"endTime":2106.54,"body":"planning and transmission"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2106.63,"endTime":2111.28,"body":"spending to exercise good"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2106.63,"endTime":2111.28,"body":"oversight over all of those"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2111.73,"endTime":2115.15,"body":"processes, so that's that's"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2111.73,"endTime":2115.15,"body":"something that we're watching,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2115.21,"endTime":2119.08,"body":"it's going through the process,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2115.21,"endTime":2119.08,"body":"it's it's it's related but not"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2119.23,"endTime":2122.91,"body":"quite the same as there's been"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2119.23,"endTime":2122.91,"body":"discussion of independent"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2122.97,"endTime":2126.81,"body":"transmission monitors having"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2122.97,"endTime":2126.81,"body":"having sort of independent"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2126.87,"endTime":2131.91,"body":"entities at the regional level"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2126.87,"endTime":2131.91,"body":"to checking the homework on"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2132.39,"endTime":2136.41,"body":"these planning processes and"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2132.39,"endTime":2136.41,"body":"making sure that that that"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2136.47,"endTime":2140.84,"body":"everything's being being"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2136.47,"endTime":2140.84,"body":"followed and done correctly, but"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2140.84,"endTime":2144.29,"body":"we think it's a, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2140.84,"endTime":2144.29,"body":"useful step to provide a little"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2144.32,"endTime":2148.73,"body":"bit more transparency around one"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2144.32,"endTime":2148.73,"body":"element of the transmission"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2149.87,"endTime":2153.02,"body":"transmission spend that's"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2149.87,"endTime":2153.02,"body":"currently just not getting well,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2153.02,"endTime":2154.97,"body":"it's getting a lot, it's being"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2153.02,"endTime":2154.97,"body":"talked about, but there's not a"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2155.0,"endTime":2159.29,"body":"lot of transparency and data and"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2155.0,"endTime":2159.29,"body":"accountability and sort of"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2159.38,"endTime":2161.39,"body":"oversight there,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2161.48,"endTime":2164.32,"body":"there's some"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2161.48,"endTime":2164.32,"body":"fundamental problems in it. Was"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2164.35,"endTime":2171.49,"body":"a technical conference about 18"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2164.35,"endTime":2171.49,"body":"maybe two years ago now at FERC,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2171.64,"endTime":2173.59,"body":"and so there were all these"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2171.64,"endTime":2173.59,"body":"state public service"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2173.68,"endTime":2177.7,"body":"commissioners sitting around the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2173.68,"endTime":2177.7,"body":"FERC table, and everybody was"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2177.79,"endTime":2182.25,"body":"talking about the need for"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2177.79,"endTime":2182.25,"body":"transmission, but the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2182.43,"endTime":2186.24,"body":"challenges, and it was"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2182.43,"endTime":2186.24,"body":"astonishing, because you had"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2186.33,"endTime":2191.22,"body":"state commissioners saying"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2186.33,"endTime":2191.22,"body":"either I don't have the time to"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2191.37,"endTime":2195.45,"body":"evaluate the quality, and"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2191.37,"endTime":2195.45,"body":"whether the estimate of that"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2195.72,"endTime":2198.66,"body":"project, or whether we need"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2195.72,"endTime":2198.66,"body":"that, whether there's more"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2198.75,"endTime":2204.44,"body":"benefits than costs, or they"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2198.75,"endTime":2204.44,"body":"don't have the authority, they"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2204.47,"endTime":2209.18,"body":"don't have the staff, and so I"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2204.47,"endTime":2209.18,"body":"mean, then you get to the art,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2209.3,"endTime":2213.08,"body":"the RTOS, that's a different can"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2209.3,"endTime":2213.08,"body":"of worms, you know, there are"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2213.17,"endTime":2217.19,"body":"these RTOs, but they don't have"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2213.17,"endTime":2217.19,"body":"any responsibility or"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2217.19,"endTime":2226.24,"body":"accountability for the cost of"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2217.19,"endTime":2226.24,"body":"power, they don't have to worry"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2226.3,"endTime":2229.24,"body":"about determining just and"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2226.3,"endTime":2229.24,"body":"reasonable rates, that's FERC,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2229.93,"endTime":2236.2,"body":"and those entities are paid for"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2229.93,"endTime":2236.2,"body":"by the utilities, and they, the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2236.41,"endTime":2242.76,"body":"decision makers at the RTOS, in"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2236.41,"endTime":2242.76,"body":"a large part, are influenced by"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2242.91,"endTime":2247.11,"body":"utilities. Consumers have very"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2242.91,"endTime":2247.11,"body":"little ability to influence the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2247.35,"endTime":2251.85,"body":"decision making at these RTOs."},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2247.35,"endTime":2251.85,"body":"So, getting back, all of it"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2252.0,"endTime":2256.62,"body":"comes back to FERC. FERC has the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2252.0,"endTime":2256.62,"body":"ability to manage this and fix"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2256.74,"endTime":2261.62,"body":"this, and in our view, FERC"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2256.74,"endTime":2261.62,"body":"needs to, in essence, stop"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2261.74,"endTime":2267.08,"body":"protecting the monopoly electric"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2261.74,"endTime":2267.08,"body":"utilities and start protecting"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2267.59,"endTime":2270.86,"body":"their ratepayer. Everybody knows"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2267.59,"endTime":2270.86,"body":"competition works. It's common"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2270.95,"endTime":2275.48,"body":"sense. It's in the American DNA."},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2270.95,"endTime":2275.48,"body":"It is one of the foundational"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2275.66,"endTime":2278.87,"body":"aspects that has made our"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2275.66,"endTime":2278.87,"body":"country successful. Competition,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2279.62,"endTime":2284.23,"body":"FERC knows that, and they have a"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2279.62,"endTime":2284.23,"body":"toolbox of policies that they"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2284.41,"endTime":2289.3,"body":"can make, they can, they can"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2284.41,"endTime":2289.3,"body":"make things happen if they want"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2289.36,"endTime":2292.57,"body":"to, and they just got to do"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2292.599,"endTime":2295.089,"body":"it. Caitlin, one of"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2292.599,"endTime":2295.089,"body":"the other negatives that gets"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2295.179,"endTime":2298.749,"body":"brought up when people push back"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2295.179,"endTime":2298.749,"body":"against the idea of broader"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2299.319,"endTime":2303.659,"body":"competition is hidden costs like"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2299.319,"endTime":2303.659,"body":"afterwards there's going to be"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2303.869,"endTime":2307.709,"body":"some element of cost recovery,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2303.869,"endTime":2307.709,"body":"or we're going to promise that"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2307.769,"endTime":2311.249,"body":"there's going to be a cap on"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2307.769,"endTime":2311.249,"body":"costs, but actually there isn't,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2311.309,"endTime":2313.199,"body":"and we're going to have to come"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2311.309,"endTime":2313.199,"body":"back and ask for more money"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2313.319,"endTime":2316.199,"body":"later, and it's going to inflate"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2313.319,"endTime":2316.199,"body":"all of everyone's numbers and"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2316.199,"endTime":2318.719,"body":"make the data that we're looking"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2316.199,"endTime":2318.719,"body":"at even more messy and"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2318.749,"endTime":2323.599,"body":"untrustworthy in your research"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2318.749,"endTime":2323.599,"body":"and in conversations with the"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2324.079,"endTime":2327.469,"body":"organizations that Advanced"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2324.079,"endTime":2327.469,"body":"Energy United represents, do you"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2327.589,"endTime":2331.279,"body":"find there to be some, some"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2327.589,"endTime":2331.279,"body":"merit to that, that there is"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2331.339,"endTime":2336.409,"body":"some black box element to cost"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2331.339,"endTime":2336.409,"body":"overruns when we're talking"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2336.439,"endTime":2337.729,"body":"about competitive transmission?"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2338.93,"endTime":2340.25,"body":"I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2338.93,"endTime":2340.25,"body":"think, aside from that, we've"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2340.28,"endTime":2342.94,"body":"talked about general data"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2340.28,"endTime":2342.94,"body":"transparency, and so having poor"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2343.21,"endTime":2345.1,"body":"data, you know, means that"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2343.21,"endTime":2345.1,"body":"that's a"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2345.13,"endTime":2347.47,"body":"problem projects."},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2348.64,"endTime":2349.57,"body":"I think"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2348.64,"endTime":2349.57,"body":"everything that we've been"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2349.6,"endTime":2352.27,"body":"talking about with these, these"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2349.6,"endTime":2352.27,"body":"cost containment measures, are"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2352.93,"endTime":2357.07,"body":"there can be pre-negotiated"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2352.93,"endTime":2357.07,"body":"exceptions to that when there's"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2357.1,"endTime":2364.23,"body":"something like force majeure or"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2357.1,"endTime":2364.23,"body":"or input costs that, that like"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2364.26,"endTime":2367.74,"body":"the cost of steel skyrockets,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2364.26,"endTime":2367.74,"body":"those are going to be things"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2367.8,"endTime":2371.58,"body":"that are going to apply to"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2367.8,"endTime":2371.58,"body":"non-competitive transmission"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2371.7,"endTime":2376.62,"body":"projects too. So, can costs"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2371.7,"endTime":2376.62,"body":"still go up? Yes, but is that"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2376.68,"endTime":2380.51,"body":"going to be something that is"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2376.68,"endTime":2380.51,"body":"meaningfully different for"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2380.96,"endTime":2384.08,"body":"competitive projects, and then"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2380.96,"endTime":2384.08,"body":"you still have the benefits,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2384.26,"endTime":2387.59,"body":"that's a, that's a sort of"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2384.26,"endTime":2387.59,"body":"pre-negotiated exemption to a"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2387.83,"endTime":2392.54,"body":"cost cap, you still have the"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2387.83,"endTime":2392.54,"body":"sort of overall benefits of the"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2392.72,"endTime":2397.76,"body":"cost containment measure, so I"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2392.72,"endTime":2397.76,"body":"think still overall you see"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2397.85,"endTime":2400.66,"body":"benefits from the competitive."},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2397.85,"endTime":2400.66,"body":"Of process,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2403.48,"endTime":2405.34,"body":"we're running out of"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2403.48,"endTime":2405.34,"body":"time here. Got a few minutes"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2405.4,"endTime":2410.11,"body":"left on the podcast. Would love"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2405.4,"endTime":2410.11,"body":"to get into any other part of"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2410.14,"endTime":2414.22,"body":"this conversation that we feel"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2410.14,"endTime":2414.22,"body":"like hasn't received the light"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2414.25,"endTime":2416.98,"body":"of day that it necessarily"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2414.25,"endTime":2416.98,"body":"deserves. Is there a part of"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2416.98,"endTime":2419.29,"body":"this issue that we're glossing"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2416.98,"endTime":2419.29,"body":"over or ignoring?"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2419.5,"endTime":2420.54,"body":"I can't believe"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2419.5,"endTime":2420.54,"body":"we've been talking about"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2420.6,"endTime":2423.24,"body":"transmission for 40 minutes, and"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2420.6,"endTime":2423.24,"body":"we haven't talked about order"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2423.3,"endTime":2424.71,"body":"1920 Okay,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2424.89,"endTime":2426.93,"body":"here we go. More"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2424.89,"endTime":2426.93,"body":"FERC stuff. Let's do it. Just"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2426.93,"endTime":2432.15,"body":"FERC sort of"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2426.93,"endTime":2432.15,"body":"said, okay, order order 1000 has"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2432.15,"endTime":2434.46,"body":"been on the books for a while,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2432.15,"endTime":2434.46,"body":"but but we need to make some"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2434.49,"endTime":2438.66,"body":"improvements. We need real"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2434.49,"endTime":2438.66,"body":"long-term multi-value planning"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2438.87,"endTime":2443.12,"body":"that looks across multiple"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2438.87,"endTime":2443.12,"body":"dimensions and looks out over a"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2443.75,"endTime":2448.31,"body":"longer time horizon, and and"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2443.75,"endTime":2448.31,"body":"that really improve builds upon"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2448.43,"endTime":2452.18,"body":"and improves the regional"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2448.43,"endTime":2452.18,"body":"transmission planning process."},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2453.11,"endTime":2455.39,"body":"One thing that relates to"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2453.11,"endTime":2455.39,"body":"competition in that is FERC"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2455.54,"endTime":2460.84,"body":"recognized when they were"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2455.54,"endTime":2460.84,"body":"developing Order 1920 and where"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2460.9,"endTime":2463.87,"body":"we are on 1920 if anyone hasn't"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2460.9,"endTime":2463.87,"body":"been following it, FERC issued"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2463.87,"endTime":2466.36,"body":"the order a couple years ago."},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2463.87,"endTime":2466.36,"body":"Regions are currently going"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2466.45,"endTime":2471.01,"body":"through compliance. PJM filed"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2466.45,"endTime":2471.01,"body":"last year, a bunch of MISO SPP"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2471.37,"endTime":2475.39,"body":"and a few others just filed this"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2471.37,"endTime":2475.39,"body":"past Friday. A few other ISO New"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2475.45,"endTime":2477.19,"body":"England hasn't even started"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2475.45,"endTime":2477.19,"body":"working on theirs, because"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2477.22,"endTime":2480.13,"body":"they're working on a separate"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2477.22,"endTime":2480.13,"body":"process, so we're very much in"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2480.16,"endTime":2484.47,"body":"the messy middle of compliance"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2480.16,"endTime":2484.47,"body":"with Order 1920 but one thing"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2484.56,"endTime":2488.04,"body":"that FERC recognized was that"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2484.56,"endTime":2488.04,"body":"what we've been talking about"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2488.1,"endTime":2494.13,"body":"here, that Order 1000 and the"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2488.1,"endTime":2494.13,"body":"competitive process did drive"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2494.91,"endTime":2501.05,"body":"incentives and resulted in more"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2494.91,"endTime":2501.05,"body":"transmission spend outside of"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2501.08,"endTime":2504.95,"body":"the competitive regional"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2501.08,"endTime":2504.95,"body":"process. Unfortunately, one of"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2505.13,"endTime":2509.45,"body":"the things that FERC did in 1920"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2505.13,"endTime":2509.45,"body":"to address that was to create a"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2509.63,"endTime":2515.84,"body":"new, limited, but a new federal"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2509.63,"endTime":2515.84,"body":"right of first refusal for right"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2515.93,"endTime":2519.2,"body":"sizing projects, so they were"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2515.93,"endTime":2519.2,"body":"trying to create the incentive"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2519.32,"endTime":2523.0,"body":"for utilities to identify places"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2519.32,"endTime":2523.0,"body":"where, instead of replacing a"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2523.09,"endTime":2527.92,"body":"line, they could maybe increase"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2523.09,"endTime":2527.92,"body":"the voltage and therefore meet a"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2528.1,"endTime":2531.82,"body":"regional need. We're concerned"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2528.1,"endTime":2531.82,"body":"that this just creates a new"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2532.27,"endTime":2538.57,"body":"loophole for for escaping"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2532.27,"endTime":2538.57,"body":"competition, and that a"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2538.96,"endTime":2545.64,"body":"preferred approach would be to"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2538.96,"endTime":2545.64,"body":"to enforce the the requirement"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2545.7,"endTime":2549.9,"body":"for competition and to play a"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2545.7,"endTime":2549.9,"body":"bigger enforcement role and to"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2550.02,"endTime":2554.52,"body":"make sure that there is greater"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2550.02,"endTime":2554.52,"body":"oversight. We are we are"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2554.7,"endTime":2557.82,"body":"strongly supportive of Order"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2554.7,"endTime":2557.82,"body":"1920 and think that it will"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2557.88,"endTime":2561.86,"body":"bring a lot of benefits, but we"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2557.88,"endTime":2561.86,"body":"would like to see that element"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2562.01,"endTime":2570.08,"body":"of it improved in by the courts,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2562.01,"endTime":2570.08,"body":"and so that's that's one thing"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2570.17,"endTime":2574.16,"body":"to watch, I think, in order 1920"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2570.17,"endTime":2574.16,"body":"is both, is that something that"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2574.19,"endTime":2576.92,"body":"the courts take a look at, but"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2574.19,"endTime":2576.92,"body":"then also, as this is, as"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2577.01,"endTime":2582.37,"body":"compliance is going on, what are"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2577.01,"endTime":2582.37,"body":"the sort of rules around right"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2582.46,"endTime":2589.27,"body":"sizing, how, how, how much are"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2582.46,"endTime":2589.27,"body":"the RTOS sort of taking a close"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2589.48,"endTime":2592.66,"body":"look at those right sizing"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2589.48,"endTime":2592.66,"body":"projects and requirements? How"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2592.75,"endTime":2595.75,"body":"are they being evaluated, and"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2592.75,"endTime":2595.75,"body":"sort of, how is that that"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2595.81,"endTime":2600.9,"body":"ultimately implemented? And does"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2595.81,"endTime":2600.9,"body":"that become a new loophole, and"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2600.9,"endTime":2605.1,"body":"the way that we're building a"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2600.9,"endTime":2605.1,"body":"lot of our, of our, of our"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2605.19,"endTime":2610.74,"body":"transmission going forward,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2605.19,"endTime":2610.74,"body":"because of this new federal"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2611.04,"endTime":2615.15,"body":"right of first refusal that that"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2611.04,"endTime":2615.15,"body":"1920 created."},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2616.05,"endTime":2619.32,"body":"Yeah, I agree with"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2616.05,"endTime":2619.32,"body":"Caitlin. We are also worried"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2619.38,"endTime":2625.55,"body":"about right sizing being used as"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2619.38,"endTime":2625.55,"body":"a loophole, we were not a fan of"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2625.7,"endTime":2630.59,"body":"the right sizing provision, so"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2625.7,"endTime":2630.59,"body":"we are worried about that."},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2630.95,"endTime":2633.08,"body":"Instead of going in the right"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2630.95,"endTime":2633.08,"body":"direction, it's the wrong"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2633.17,"endTime":2635.84,"body":"direction. I might also add that"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2636.26,"endTime":2639.38,"body":"mentioned it's"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2636.26,"endTime":2639.38,"body":"it's trying to address a real"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2639.5,"endTime":2644.77,"body":"issue, and right sizing can can"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2639.5,"endTime":2644.77,"body":"have no benefits, but yeah,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2644.98,"endTime":2647.95,"body":"concerns about how it ultimately"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2644.98,"endTime":2647.95,"body":"gets kind of implemented and"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2648.19,"endTime":2648.7,"body":"what impacts"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2649.81,"endTime":2654.61,"body":"a 1920 The other"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2649.81,"endTime":2654.61,"body":"thing that I will add, we were"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2655.0,"endTime":2658.27,"body":"there was not a single cost"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2655.0,"endTime":2658.27,"body":"containment provision in 1920"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2659.23,"endTime":2663.57,"body":"Again, FERC had an opportunity."},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2659.23,"endTime":2663.57,"body":"This is the last FERC had an"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2663.69,"endTime":2669.99,"body":"opportunity to correct a ROM,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2663.69,"endTime":2669.99,"body":"and they didn't act, so we're"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2669.99,"endTime":2671.82,"body":"very unhappy with that."},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2673.14,"endTime":2675.57,"body":"FERC 1920 for those"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2673.14,"endTime":2675.57,"body":"that don't follow the space,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2675.72,"endTime":2678.51,"body":"mandating long-term planning. I"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2675.72,"endTime":2678.51,"body":"think Caitlin had mentioned it a"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2678.6,"endTime":2680.51,"body":"little bit offhand there, but"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2678.6,"endTime":2680.51,"body":"there might be somebody"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2680.6,"endTime":2683.42,"body":"listening that's like, wait,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2680.6,"endTime":2683.42,"body":"1920 does what exactly, but I"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2683.51,"endTime":2686.81,"body":"think I think long-term"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2683.51,"endTime":2686.81,"body":"planning, just on its face, is a"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2686.9,"endTime":2689.21,"body":"good thing, whether or not some"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2686.9,"endTime":2689.21,"body":"of the provisions are"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2689.27,"endTime":2693.38,"body":"well-intentioned, clearly up for"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2689.27,"endTime":2693.38,"body":"debate. Is there any other"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2694.43,"endTime":2697.82,"body":"maneuver in that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2694.43,"endTime":2697.82,"body":"toolbox that FERC could, could,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2698.03,"endTime":2701.32,"body":"you know, a tool that FERC could"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2698.03,"endTime":2701.32,"body":"pull on? That toolbox that might"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2701.47,"endTime":2705.37,"body":"also improve this process. Paul"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2701.47,"endTime":2705.37,"body":"and Caitlin, I know I'm putting"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2705.37,"endTime":2707.56,"body":"you on the spot a little bit"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2705.37,"endTime":2707.56,"body":"here, but is there another"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2707.77,"endTime":2711.61,"body":"glaring issue with the larger"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2707.77,"endTime":2711.61,"body":"transmission process that sticks"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2711.76,"endTime":2712.03,"body":"out to you?"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2712.54,"endTime":2716.29,"body":"Yeah, well, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2712.54,"endTime":2716.29,"body":"common sense one is that they"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2716.56,"endTime":2722.58,"body":"could say to the RTOS ISOs,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2716.56,"endTime":2722.58,"body":"okay, a competitive process will"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2722.7,"endTime":2726.57,"body":"only last six months. Get it"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2722.7,"endTime":2726.57,"body":"done now. Your"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2726.57,"endTime":2726.87,"body":"business,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2727.2,"endTime":2731.28,"body":"I've been told that"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2727.2,"endTime":2731.28,"body":"PJM has a process at six months,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2731.4,"endTime":2736.74,"body":"but the processes in MISO and"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2731.4,"endTime":2736.74,"body":"SPP can be much longer. Kayla,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2738.57,"endTime":2742.79,"body":"yeah, PJM does"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2738.57,"endTime":2742.79,"body":"have sort of an expedited"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2743.03,"endTime":2747.71,"body":"competitive process that I think"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2743.03,"endTime":2747.71,"body":"is a good model, to you know,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2747.86,"endTime":2750.56,"body":"you can never copy paste things"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2747.86,"endTime":2750.56,"body":"across regions, but good model"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2750.65,"endTime":2753.77,"body":"to potentially look at, and"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2750.65,"endTime":2753.77,"body":"something that we were looking"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2753.98,"endTime":2757.52,"body":"at in making recommendations in"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2753.98,"endTime":2757.52,"body":"the MISO and SPP complaint, in"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2757.64,"endTime":2761.14,"body":"terms of how could you shrink"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2757.64,"endTime":2761.14,"body":"some of the steps along the way"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2761.56,"endTime":2763.63,"body":"in that solicitation process,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2764.89,"endTime":2767.17,"body":"we've already"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2764.89,"endTime":2767.17,"body":"established on the first edition"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2767.2,"endTime":2770.2,"body":"of the Factor This Policy Cast"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2767.2,"endTime":2770.2,"body":"that we do not have a crystal"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2770.26,"endTime":2773.44,"body":"ball handy, disappointingly. So,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2770.26,"endTime":2773.44,"body":"it would be really nice to be"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2773.56,"endTime":2777.28,"body":"able to just know how this is"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2773.56,"endTime":2777.28,"body":"all going to shake out, but as a"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2777.37,"endTime":2781.62,"body":"sort of bit of parting wisdom"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2777.37,"endTime":2781.62,"body":"for our viewers and listeners, I"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2781.74,"endTime":2784.56,"body":"would love for either of you to"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2781.74,"endTime":2784.56,"body":"sort of weigh in on where you"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2784.65,"endTime":2790.5,"body":"envision the larger scope of"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2784.65,"endTime":2790.5,"body":"this heading as we approach the"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2790.68,"endTime":2794.7,"body":"horizon of some of these quite"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2790.68,"endTime":2794.7,"body":"frankly preposterous load growth"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2794.76,"endTime":2797.67,"body":"projections that are going to"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2794.76,"endTime":2797.67,"body":"put our grid in a real bind if"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2797.76,"endTime":2801.95,"body":"we don't act and act in the"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2797.76,"endTime":2801.95,"body":"right ways now. Paul, I'd love"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2801.95,"endTime":2803.48,"body":"to queue you up first, and then"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2801.95,"endTime":2803.48,"body":"Kate,"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2805.25,"endTime":2808.31,"body":"for example, that"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2805.25,"endTime":2808.31,"body":"recent complaint by these nine"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2808.37,"endTime":2815.6,"body":"utilities in SPP and MISO to put"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2808.37,"endTime":2815.6,"body":"a moratorium on competitive"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2815.66,"endTime":2820.42,"body":"processes for five years. I"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2815.66,"endTime":2820.42,"body":"mean, I am frankly, I am"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2820.69,"endTime":2824.74,"body":"optimistic that the FERC is"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2820.69,"endTime":2824.74,"body":"going to say is going to reject"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2824.8,"endTime":2830.14,"body":"that. I mean, we have the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2824.8,"endTime":2830.14,"body":"affordability crisis. You have a"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2830.98,"endTime":2837.4,"body":"president that is on that has"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2830.98,"endTime":2837.4,"body":"that. I mean, that complaint is"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2837.58,"endTime":2840.69,"body":"inconsistent with the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2837.58,"endTime":2840.69,"body":"president's and the data centers"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2842.52,"endTime":2846.39,"body":"pledge to protect the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2842.52,"endTime":2846.39,"body":"ratepayers, and it's"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2846.57,"endTime":2849.15,"body":"inconsistent with President"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2846.57,"endTime":2849.15,"body":"Trump's executive order to"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2849.33,"endTime":2855.3,"body":"reduce and get rid of"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2849.33,"endTime":2855.3,"body":"anti-competitive regulatory"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2855.42,"endTime":2859.08,"body":"provisions. Does this sound"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2855.42,"endTime":2859.08,"body":"familiar? Okay, and you have"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2859.5,"endTime":2861.8,"body":"every policy maker, it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2859.5,"endTime":2861.8,"body":"matter whether you're at the"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2862.13,"endTime":2866.3,"body":"county, the state, the federal"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2862.13,"endTime":2866.3,"body":"level, is concerned about rising"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2866.36,"endTime":2870.23,"body":"electricity. The time is now for"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2866.36,"endTime":2870.23,"body":"FERC to act. So, I'm optimistic"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2870.38,"endTime":2873.86,"body":"that this is going to be managed"},{"speaker":"Paul Cicio","startTime":2870.38,"endTime":2873.86,"body":"very quickly."},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2876.77,"endTime":2879.23,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2876.77,"endTime":2879.23,"body":"sort of looking forward on"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2879.56,"endTime":2883.24,"body":"transmission, even stepping back"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2879.56,"endTime":2883.24,"body":"from the competition question,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2883.27,"endTime":2885.7,"body":"which we do think, as we've"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2883.27,"endTime":2885.7,"body":"talked about at length here,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2885.82,"endTime":2890.26,"body":"that competition is an important"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2885.82,"endTime":2890.26,"body":"tool to address both speed and"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2890.35,"endTime":2895.81,"body":"cost, but I think you know"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2890.35,"endTime":2895.81,"body":"keeping greater alignment on the"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2895.87,"endTime":2901.2,"body":"benefits of competition of"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2895.87,"endTime":2901.2,"body":"transmission rather as we face"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2901.56,"endTime":2906.78,"body":"this feed to power and"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2901.56,"endTime":2906.78,"body":"affordability imperatives that"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2907.38,"endTime":2910.2,"body":"transmission delivers"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2907.38,"endTime":2910.2,"body":"significant benefits to"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2910.26,"endTime":2912.63,"body":"consumers in terms of like we"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2910.26,"endTime":2912.63,"body":"talked about at the very"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2912.84,"endTime":2918.93,"body":"beginning congestion unlocking"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2912.84,"endTime":2918.93,"body":"more affordable new generation"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2919.05,"endTime":2925.22,"body":"resources and I think just"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2919.05,"endTime":2925.22,"body":"better alignment on building"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2925.31,"endTime":2928.07,"body":"transmission, but building the"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2925.31,"endTime":2928.07,"body":"right transmission, so that we"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2928.28,"endTime":2933.26,"body":"are, we are reducing costs,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2928.28,"endTime":2933.26,"body":"increasing net benefits, and not"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2933.5,"endTime":2938.48,"body":"adding to already burdened"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2933.5,"endTime":2938.48,"body":"consumers rates. I think we have"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2938.51,"endTime":2942.04,"body":"a lot of hope that Order 1920"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2938.51,"endTime":2942.04,"body":"gets us part of the way there. I"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2942.13,"endTime":2944.5,"body":"know I mentioned one piece of"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2942.13,"endTime":2944.5,"body":"that we don't like, but overall"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2944.62,"endTime":2948.37,"body":"think it's a really positive"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2944.62,"endTime":2948.37,"body":"development, and what it really"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2948.43,"endTime":2952.99,"body":"is resting on now is the states"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2948.43,"endTime":2952.99,"body":"being able to agree that that"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2953.05,"endTime":2956.11,"body":"transmission is worth building"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2953.05,"endTime":2956.11,"body":"and paying for and permitting"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2957.46,"endTime":2962.1,"body":"and actually getting getting"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2957.46,"endTime":2962.1,"body":"projects moving forward, so we"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2962.16,"endTime":2965.58,"body":"think transmission is one one"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2962.16,"endTime":2965.58,"body":"important element of that, but"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2965.61,"endTime":2968.34,"body":"there's a lot of other pieces"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2965.61,"endTime":2968.34,"body":"that need to fall into place,"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2968.85,"endTime":2974.22,"body":"and sort of alignment on the"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2968.85,"endTime":2974.22,"body":"goals and the benefits is sort"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2974.25,"endTime":2975.93,"body":"of critical across all of those"},{"speaker":"Caitlin Marquis","startTime":2974.25,"endTime":2975.93,"body":"pieces. It"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2977.7,"endTime":2980.36,"body":"sounds like there's"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2977.7,"endTime":2980.36,"body":"some uncertainty in some of this"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2980.48,"endTime":2983.81,"body":"issue, but one thing I know for"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2980.48,"endTime":2983.81,"body":"sure, if you made it 50 plus"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2983.96,"endTime":2986.63,"body":"minutes into this podcast and"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2983.96,"endTime":2986.63,"body":"you're still listening about the"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2986.66,"endTime":2989.48,"body":"finer points of competitive"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2986.66,"endTime":2989.48,"body":"transmission, you, my friend,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2989.57,"endTime":2992.75,"body":"are in the right place. This is"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2989.57,"endTime":2992.75,"body":"the Policy Walk Show for you."},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2993.47,"endTime":2997.01,"body":"Paul Ciccio, Chair of BTCC,"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2993.47,"endTime":2997.01,"body":"Caitlin Markey, Advanced Energy"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2997.04,"endTime":2999.92,"body":"United. I really appreciate both"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":2997.04,"endTime":2999.92,"body":"of you for taking some time out."},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":3000.03,"endTime":3002.7,"body":"Your day to really get into the"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":3000.03,"endTime":3002.7,"body":"weeds on this incredibly"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":3002.73,"endTime":3006.24,"body":"important issue, and we look"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":3002.73,"endTime":3006.24,"body":"forward to producing more shows"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":3006.39,"endTime":3010.14,"body":"just like this about critical"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":3006.39,"endTime":3010.14,"body":"electricity policy issues moving"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":3010.23,"endTime":3012.6,"body":"forward in our partnership with"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":3010.23,"endTime":3012.6,"body":"Advanced Energy United. If you"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":3012.66,"endTime":3015.72,"body":"enjoyed the conversation, please"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":3012.66,"endTime":3015.72,"body":"like, subscribe, leave a little"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":3015.81,"endTime":3019.11,"body":"feedback. We would love to know"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":3015.81,"endTime":3019.11,"body":"what you think, or maybe share a"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":3019.14,"endTime":3021.95,"body":"suggestion for a future episode"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":3019.14,"endTime":3021.95,"body":"if you'd like. Until next time"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":3022.04,"endTime":3024.44,"body":"on The Policy Cast, I'm Factor"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":3022.04,"endTime":3024.44,"body":"This Content Director Paul"},{"speaker":"Paul Gerke","startTime":3024.53,"endTime":3025.85,"body":"Gerke. Be good everybody,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3036.8,"endTime":3036.86,"body":"you."}]}