Ideal Practice
Ideal Practice
#63. The Power and Magic of Running a Soul-Aligned Practice: A Conversation with Maira Holzmann
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What a story - and what an incredible conversation.
In this episode, you get to meet Maira Holzmann, LCSW - a somatically trained therapist, group practice owner, and business coach out of Denver, Colorado. And I promise you, by the end of our conversation, you will adore her!
Although today she's playing big - it wasn't always that way.
In fact, she'll tell you that she 'failed" private practice 3 times before she finally began to figure things out.
But she is a remarkably resilient person, who knows her strengths, and knows when she needs help. That energetic combination has led her through some tough times into a MUCH better place. And from her experiences, she now has a lot to share with the rest of us.
Through her story, she challenges all of us to believe in ourselves and to dream bigger - in a soulful, meaningful way.
Give this a listen. You'll be soooo glad you did.
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TODAY’S GUEST: MAIRA HOLZMANN, LCSW
Maira passionately works at the intersection of being a seasoned therapist running a growing group practice and a business coach for soul-aligned therapists who want to stop feeling overworked, underpaid and unappreciated. With her extensive training in empowered somatics, healing trauma, and nurturing resilience Maira is dedicated to helping psychotherapists do good, live large and thrive more.
You can find her at:
www.MoreThrivingTherapists.com
www.SomaticTherapyPartners.com
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MENTIONED:
- Episode 39: Why Closing Her Group Practice was One of the Best Things She Ever Did: An Interview with Ali Boehm
- Episode 42: Thinking Big: How to Grow and Manage a Large Group Practice with Amanda Landry
- Episode 43: What I Got Right as a Group Practice Owner, and a Few Things I Missed.
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FREE RESOURCE: Are you cramming client hours into a packed day? Working hard but feel like you're still not making any money? With decades of experience, I’ve found a LOT of ways to boost your bottom line, and I’ve pulled some of my favorites together into a free guide for you. Download this today, check out what’s inside, then tell me which one you’ll try first. :)
31 Practical Ways to Increase Cash Flow In Your Private Practice
Wendy Pitts Reeves, LCSW
Host, Ideal Practice
Private Practice Coach and Mentor
www.WendyPittsReeves.com
Wendy@WendyPittsReeves.com
You're listening to Ideal Practice, episode number 63. And, oh my gosh, do I have a treat for you Y'all. this is one of the best interviews we've had yet, and we have had some great ones, haven't we? I cannot tell you how much fun my conversation with Maira Holzmann, a and business coach out of Denver, Colorado. Nor can I put into words the inspiration I know you're about to receive. yet just gotta hear it for yourself. And you've got to listen to this all the way through, because the wisdom just kept coming to the very end. So good, so good. So stay tuned. Hi, i'm Wendy Pitts Reeves and, with over two decades of experience in the private practice world, i've built my six figure business while learning a lot of lessons the hard way. This is the first podcast that shows you how to apply the principles of energy alignment and strategy to build a practice that is profit centered, but people forward. This is the ideal practice podcast. Hey guys, and welcome back. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of ideal practice.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:This is your host, Wendy Pitts Reeves, and I am thrilled to be with you today. I'm pretty happy. I just got back from a camping trip, which is so good for my soul. I hope you're doing some fun stuff. This is summer, it was my birthday recently and I always find a way to be in the woods somehow when that's happening. So my wife and I went to a beautiful campground way up in the mountains in Southwest Virginia where there was no cell service. Well, so we were completely off grid for several days and it was really good for the soul honestly really good for the soul which is a perfect way to move into our conversation today, where we're gonna be talking about what it means to run a practice. that is really good for your soul. Yeah, so let me tell you about our guest We.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:today you get to meet . Maira is an LCSW who is honestly fired up and so excited about her work. She works at the intersection of being a seasoned therapist. She's a somatic therapist running a growing group practice in Denver, Colorado, and she's also a business coach for soul aligned therapists who want to stop feeling overworked and underpaid and under appreciated. Can you relate to that? Does that sound familiar With her extensive training in empowered somatics, healing trauma and nurturing resilience, which, by golly, should be her middle name? Maira is dedicated to helping psychotherapists do good, live large and thrive more. I just can't tell you what a delightful person she is. I had not met her before this interview, but she has a way of lighting up the room and her own life story, her own story, her own practice journey is nothing short of inspiring. It has not been easy. It has not been easy, but it is powerful and we can all learn from it.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:So let's get in to the interview. All right, hello everyone and welcome. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of ideal practice. It is such a treat today You and I both get to know somebody who's new to me. We've had one brief conversation and I was impressed out the wazoo right off the bat. So I have invited to come on and talk with us about the process that she has been through. She's a licensed clinical social worker. Maira, I'm gonna stop right here and let you introduce yourself. Tell everybody hi where you are, what you do, bring us on in, come on in, absolutely thanks so much, Wendy, for having me here.
Maira Holzmann:This is such a great opportunity and I had a great time chatting with you during our initial conversation. So yeah, I'm and I am a somatically trained psychotherapist and I run a group practice called Somatic Therapy Partners here in Denver, Colorado. So I'm a trained psychotherapist and I'm also a business coach for therapists.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:I love that. I love that Can relate to that same thing here. Yeah, i love that. So I would love to know a little bit about, like, just tell me about the practice that you have right now somatic therapy. Tell me what that is, what that looks like, what your practice is about. Let's start there.
Maira Holzmann:Yeah, so my practice Somatic Therapy Partners is we do all somatic approaches to healing, helping clients heal from trauma. So my practice is really niched in that way. so it's mainly somatic therapy approaches and all different kinds. So I'm trained in somatic experiencing, my other colleague is trained in sensory motor psychotherapy, and then we just hired two new staff who are trained in different somatic modalities, which is really exciting. And basically what somatic therapy is is more of a dedicated focus to including the body as an ally in the healing process, because, especially with trauma, what we know is that it's not as much about the event of the traumatic event that occurred, but how the body and in particular the nervous system functioning, changes and becomes less balanced and more dysfunctional because of that event or series of events. Sometimes it's not one event, it's a series of events like childhood abuse or that kind of thing.
Maira Holzmann:So that's really what we do. That's who in the Denver community people seek us out for is because we really are focused on that and we're trained, i think, as all therapists, we're trained in many modalities. We also do top down approaches, and by top down I mean mind based approaches, because of course, we have to use our mind, and the somatic approaches are basically about including the body and helping a client learn how to inhabit their body in ways to overcome and resolve the trauma that's stuck in their body, if you will.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:So I'm interested in that from a marketing perspective. That's a very different angle to take to the general public in terms of how you distinguish your practice from others in your area. And you're in Denver I don't know if we said that or not that you were in Denver, colorado And y'all. Just to put this in perspective, she had snow this week and it was 86 degrees where I was yesterday, so we were comparing notes on that for a minute ago. So I'm hot and she's cold. So there you go.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:But tell me, I have two questions about this. One is having a somatic approach as your primary sort of out front modality. Has that helped you in terms of getting your practice off the ground and standing out as a unique sort of a different way of doing things? That's my first question. And my second question is how do you explain that to the public and help people understand that? And have you had any trouble getting people to buy into that? Cause I'm thinking I could see people having two reactions like, oh, this is completely different. I wanna try this And I don't know about that part. You know I've already.
Maira Holzmann:I don't know about that.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:So I'm kind of curious about that.
Maira Holzmann:Yeah, so from a marketing perspective, and I know we'll probably dive into this but you know, when I first started getting any kind of coaching I had, all my coaches were saying that the riches were in the niches. They were saying that when one way or another And you know Peter Levine, who is the person who founded somatic experiencing, put somatic approaches on the map here in the West He's the one that added the word freeze to the fight flight survival response And so interestingly, and I'll kind of answer both questions at the same time people have heard about somatic therapy And, as a sidebar but related, part of how I got into it is because I was working with eating disorders using mainly top down approaches. We were using DBT, you know dialectical behavioral therapy, acceptance and commitment therapy, All of these. These are really lovely approaches. And then I just kept watching clients. You know the recidivism rates And I know it's eating disorders which recidivism rates are high. They just kept coming back because you can't really heal the mind without including the body in the way that I view work, because you know, if you think about it, there's way more nerve centers from the neck down than there are from the neck up And yet all of us sort of rely on our mind to get us out of these pickles, when really there's this whole you know body that is housing information and creating somatic patterns. So when I talk about this with clients especially, i mean of course we only attract the clients that are really interested in our work because our marketing message is really clear and it's really focused. So from a marketing perspective, i think it's one of the best choices I ever made is to pursue this form of training.
Maira Holzmann:I remember I had a clinician who, when we were trying to hire, said I don't have any somatic training but I'd love to join your group and learn about it. And at that time we had had a different hiring strategy. And I said to him listen, go take these trainings. You can check out these two major schools in somatics And it will make your career. And I meant it with every because it's such a dedicated niche.
Maira Holzmann:And then within somatics there's so many niches that you can do Like there are clinicians who work with people who have just had motor vehicle accidents and help them resolve that trauma, or people who focus on relieving migraines. And you know the thing that I tell all of my clients that show up, because especially the clients that look for me are the ones who have tried everything. They've been a therapist for four to 20 years, they've gone to shamans, they've seen nutritionists And they come in and they do this work And they're kind of blown away because they recognize that the missing link was is that nobody really taught them how to live in their body during these high states of stress?
Maira Holzmann:And so it just simply resonates with them, and then they get the results and they're just like wow. I wish I had known about this approach a long time ago.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:I love that.
Maira Holzmann:Yeah, and I just want to say I'm not, of course, denigrating any top-down approaches, because it's a synthesis of those two. Of course I have to use top-down approaches And primarily what I'm doing when I'm working with clients from that somatic lens is really noticing what their physiology is doing. Where are they on the nervous system map? What are the signs and symptoms and sensations that I am seeing with a client or feeling in my own body that's telling me that there may be outside their window of tolerance or their ability to tolerate stress and they're starting to go into survival, adaptive survival strategies like shutting down and isolating or, you know, turning to drugs. I mean, we know about these maladaptive survival strategies.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Absolutely So. One of the things that I want to sort of highlight is that you said, just as an offhand thing our marketing is really clear, our message is clear, so people who need us can find us. Like, oh well, there's a concept, that's a concept, i mean, and I know we're going to dig into this, but it really vets people.
Maira Holzmann:I mean the namesake of my business, somatic therapy partners. You know that if you're coming to this organization you are going to get somatic therapy, and that makes it really easy, because then we don't have to work, we don't get calls from clients who are not interested in this approach, and somatic therapies, along with psychedelic therapies, are just gaining so much attention in the world of therapy as new modalities to try And we do. We need to evolve as a healing community and they can just be.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Yeah, absolutely. It's an exciting time actually to be in this field, because there are so many different ways now of working that are new and incredibly effective and powerful, so I love that. And what works for one person won't work for the next, and vice versa. So when you offer something brand new, that someone who's been trying and trying and trying and nothing has worked, and all of a sudden it clicks, that's the best feeling in the world. So your practice you're building a group practice now, right, but this is still relatively new. I'm thinking How long have you has Somatic Partners been in play? And tell me a little bit about your group as it is right now.
Maira Holzmann:Yeah. so I decided to hire another clinician in 2020, when I was working an insane amount of hours I was seeing 25 to 30 client hours per week and I worked with deep trauma.
Maira Holzmann:I worked with early trauma and shock trauma and that was just way too much And I did. I had a colleague and I decided to open up right before the pandemic actually, so in February 2020, i opened up and then we had to take a pause because everything sort of shut down, And so we've only been really going for the last two and a half years. I mean, so we're a toddler.
Maira Holzmann:That's the way I think of my business is I'm growing this little baby. That's my business and we're now a toddler and we just expanded, which is exciting. That took us a year and a half to get our hiring, all of the things that go into hiring and onboarding and interviewing and all of that. So right now there's four clinicians and then I have an operations manager and we're a pretty small outfit.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Yay, for you that's great.
Maira Holzmann:Thank you, it's really really exciting.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Yeah, so there's you plus four clinicians, plus an operations person, me plus three other clinicians and an operations person. Got it.
Maira Holzmann:So we're a five women outfit right now.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Love it. Yeah, it's fun, it's exciting, That's fine, myra, that's huge within two years of starting. I think that's fantastic actually, and there is so much to learn in terms of like there's so much more to running a group than people realize and there's so much that it requires of you as a person, as the leader of that team, and systemically, operationally, like there's a lot that goes into that, which I've talked about some of that in previous episodes, but I don't think it ever hurts to kind of revisit that a little bit Talk about it.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Yeah, so tell me, let's just do that just a little bit. So tell me, like, what's the basic structure? So are these folks W2 employees or are they 1099 contractors? And what have you already learned, like what, through this process of these, just this last 18 months, two years? what have you already learned about good Lord, what it takes to do this?
Maira Holzmann:Oh my gosh, that's a great question.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:I will just riff on that.
Maira Holzmann:So first I'll just answer the easy questions, which is that everyone that works for me are employees and that was a really important decision I needed to make, because for me, my mission and vision need to be aligned such that everyone that's working on my team is trained in a certain way, and with contractors you can't really train them, because a contractor is a contractor and they can do what they want when they want right, and I wanted to make sure that everyone have the same foundation of understanding of how we support clients on every single part of their journey, from the first call to the time that they terminate with us.
Maira Holzmann:And that through line is I should come up with a word for it, but it's for me, it's.
Maira Holzmann:The thing that sets my practice apart is because I have this very specific point of view. It's not that I need all my clinicians to practice the same way They all can be somatically trained but in terms of running the business, i want clients to know that they are, that their journey is gonna be good from beginning to end. I'll give you an example. So one of the things that we don't do in our initial sessions is we don't do an entire biopsychosocial history, and the reason for that is because this is what I say to clients. I say I do it over the course of three or four sessions because I also wanna be able to teach skills and learn your nervous system. And if I let you, if I take all of this history, if I ask you about your entire trauma history, then all I'm really doing is supporting that trauma in sort of getting what's the word, i can't think of the word, but in reinforcing that trauma Stirring, it all back up again.
Maira Holzmann:Yeah stirring it up again. So we have to do these in little bits, and so there are little points of view that are important that I needed all of my clinicians to be on board with, and I can't do that with contractors.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:You have a specific process that you want them to go through.
Maira Holzmann:That's right, and I want all of my clients to have a similar experience of like. This is how we do things, this is how you're welcomed And, to that end, my intake manager, who was also my operations manager, consistently gets amazing feedback And I hear it from the clients that walk in the door about what an amazing opening process that was to have this call and to have them be guided through. They have to answer questions, but I've also trained my operations manager to listen for dysregulation so that she can pause the client, slow the client down and support them and teach them a skill right So that they can go around. Because, as we all know as clinicians, when people are showing up to your door, this is what I teach my clinicians about.
Maira Holzmann:That client has created an entire hero's journey, like they've been an entire hero's journey by the time they get to just to even get to the call, much less get to your office. And it's that kind of thinking that I want to be able to train all of my clinicians with. So some of the big learnings that I've had, because if you really knew me, you would know that I can tend to be impulsive, like I've got these great ideas, and I can also be overconfident, thinking that I know more than I actually know, and it has gotten me into trouble so often, wendy, i can't even tell you. And so one of the things that I've had to learn I'm laughing a little bit because I can relate to that.
Maira Holzmann:So I'm like mm-hmm, i know what that means. Yeah, exactly. I'm like oh, this will just work, I could do this surely No problem.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:How hard can it be?
Maira Holzmann:Yeah, and the other curveball that created a lot of learning for me was hiring is different right now, post pandemic. A lot of clinicians during the pandemic got to be really successful because they could offer online therapy, And so there were not as many people that were looking to get jobs because they could do it on their own, And so we had to shift our hiring strategy two or three times because originally I wanted people who were five to 10 years in the field to come and work and I wanted them to be somatically trained, And those folks are already doing their own thing Not everybody, but a lot of them that I know And so I wasn't getting any applications, And I think one of the biggest things that I learned, which is so helpful for me and I think this might be helpful for your listeners is because I had put a team in place. That's one of the things I had to do. It's one of my big learnings.
Maira Holzmann:But, then, once I put my team in place, i had to rely on them to do what they said they were gonna do and what we talked about that they were gonna do, so that I didn't have to do everything. Because I think that my previous Myra, when she was opening up private practice, just believed and assumed that I could do everything. Even up until the point when I expanded and hired somebody else, i was like I'm just gonna do everything. It wasn't even a mindset, it was just the way that it was. And we just finished this round of hiring back in the end of February And there were things where I was like okay, here's the goal, this is your bucket operations manager, this is your bucket clinical lead, and I'm just gonna trust that you know how to do it, because I trust myself that I brought good people And so having good people and trusting them Whoa.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Hold on to that, wait a minute. I wanna put a pin in that. Wait a minute. That was a good one. I'm gonna trust that you know what you're, that you can handle. You know what you're doing because I trust myself that I bring on good people And I love that because I think that's such a great way to think about this. I think one of the hardest things that we all do it all And it's very hard to learn to delegate or to hand over parts of our work to somebody else. But if you're growing a group or you're going, you wanna make a bigger impact. You cannot do it all, it'll eat you alive, but I trust myself to hire good people. That's confidence that's well earned And serves you. I love that. That's really beautiful.
Maira Holzmann:Yeah, and it really showed up for me because I could feel myself during the entire process being like, okay, what's happening here and how's this, and did you create this and show me all the things? And I would just be like Myra, you actually don't have time and capacity to do that. You wanna focus on these other higher priority goals. So trust your people, and they did it. They did it, of course. They did it because, again, i trust myself and they're outstanding people who know how to do exactly what we talked about.
Maira Holzmann:So that was probably my biggest learning is like trust the people that you hire. There's a reason why you hired them. This is not. I'm no longer playing that game where I need to do everything, and the other game that I'm not playing too, by the way, which I'm sure you can relate to, is that not everything has to be perfect. I can do the things and we can start the process without having it be super tight and just right, and this way and that way, it's like no, this is good enough.
Maira Holzmann:So we're just gonna move forward with this, and that has served me a lot as I've grown as a clinician and an entrepreneur in this field.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:I love that, so I often call myself a practicing imperfectionist.
Maira Holzmann:I love that Because.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:I can obsess over the smallest details sometime and can make my own life way harder than it has to be, and sometimes there's a place for just jump. Just hold your nose and jump, figure it out. You'll tweak it as you go. right, learn to love the tweak, as somebody said to me one time.
Maira Holzmann:Oh, that's a good one Yeah learn to love the tweak.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:So I love this. So you're just hearing this. I have to tell you you sound so sophisticated.
Maira Holzmann:Haha! - Now I'm gonna say that.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:So sophisticated. I have my operations manager, my intake manager, who absolutely teaches people a skill while they're calling it. How awesome is that. And then I have my clinical lead, which I adore. It's awesome. I will take that. I mean, i'm telling you And I know that it hasn't always been this way that you have been through a lot to get here. Would you like to tell us a little bit about the process, like sort of the curvy road that it has taken to get you where you are today, cause you're doing great and I love it, and I know you've got new things on the horizon We'll talk about too, but it hasn't been easy, so share a little bit about that with us.
Maira Holzmann:Absolutely So, and I do really appreciate you asking this question because I know that I do this. I look at people who are in places of success where I wanna be and I'm just like, well, they must be smarter or they must just have more support And they've got particular skills in marketing or whatever that they could build this massive group practice. And I wanna tell you and all your listeners, I've failed three times in private practice. And I failed, I mean.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Yeah, i was gonna say what does that mean? What do you mean failed?
Maira Holzmann:Failed means. I never got a full caseload the way that I wanted to. I was never getting paid what I wanted to. I kept trying to over deliver by basically getting paid less, because I was afraid that clients wouldn't come if I didn't take insurance or if I didn't charge something that was sort of at the market rate for wherever I was at.
Maira Holzmann:And it was a painful three times to fail, and so that was a big piece of my learning is just figuring out that I can't back to this idea that I can't do everything myself. I mean, i'm a trained therapist. I'm not a trained marketer or business person. I never took any of those skills, and so part of the turning point for me was finally investing in a coaching program, and then I launched I mean, wendy, i launched bigger than I could have imagined, and this was six years of trying to do private practice, from 2010 to 2016.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:So did you go into practice and then go back to get an agency job and then back into practice and somewhere else? Okay, so you would start it and go. This isn't working, close it go, get a job and back. And what wasn't working was that you were either seeing the wrong kind of people working way too hard, not making nearly enough money, wearing yourself out and like you weren't having any fun and it wasn't doing much good. Is that right? Am I hearing that right?
Maira Holzmann:That's exactly what happened, and I also just had these ideas about what was gonna happen. Like here was my first idea, right Talking about sort of I was chuckling earlier when we were talking about how we could obsess over these little details The first website I ever put up with a business partner that I had. The name of that business was called Chrysalis Rising.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Okay, that doesn't tell you anything about anything, let me just start there, like Chrysalis Rising.
Maira Holzmann:So I just figured if we wrote up this beautiful website that took us three weeks to write because we were obsessing over every period and comma and the order of things if we just slapped it up, people would find us.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:People. I want listeners. Y'all tune into this. I want you to notice, like this story, chrysalis Rising how beautiful is that. We love the metaphor And most a lot of us who are drawn to this kind of work tend to be more creative, more heart centered people. Of course, we love a metaphor. I love a good metaphor, and from a marketing point of view, it does not serve you Like don't be clever, be clear, don't be clever, be clear.
Maira Holzmann:That's a great one, yeah, and we just thought we were so smart and we were so loving and we poured our heart and our soul into this website and then nothing Like. I think maybe we got two calls and that's only because people who are already in that program told their friends to give us a call, but it wasn't because they found us on the website.
Maira Holzmann:And the business path I think for therapists if you want it to be can be really exciting and really an opportunity for you to fill up your coffers of wisdom and experience, and there are so many times that I wanted to quit. Three failed private practices does not sound awesome.
Maira Holzmann:That does not sound like something you wanna keep doing, and you're right, i did. I went back into agency work because I could and it was fine, and I'm so glad that I decided to take the risk and invest way more money than I had at the time to my into my first coaching program And literally from day one, wendy, i just realized how much I didn't know And that one piece of information about, and specifically about, marketing Like I remembered watching the first like two or three videos after the welcome video And I was like wow.
Maira Holzmann:I yeah, I didn't know anything. I was so silly back in the day thinking if you just slap up a website, people will come find you.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:So I mean we're using. I mean that's a small thing, it's an important thing, but it is a great, pretty common example of some of the kind of mistakes that you, just if you don't know, you don't know And we don't. They don't teach us that in grad school, right? So did you. I'm curious about this transition. You were in and out of practice. You kept trying. Kudos to you, cause a lot of folks after they try one time would be like I'm obviously not cut out for this, right, all the self-talk happens. The fact that you kept coming back is also impressive, myra, really I love that. And where, in somewhere along the way, you decided I've got to get some help and you hired a coach. I can relate to that too. I have done the same thing. Did you know people who had worked with coaches before? Where did that come from And what was that like for you? What did that feel like to even make that decision?
Maira Holzmann:It's a really good question. So I'm bringing myself back to when I was at the agency that I was working at And I used to work in eating disorders And part of what kept growing for me first of all was the dissatisfaction. And I wasn't even working full time, So I was only a part-time employee. I was working 20 hours a week at this agency. It was great, I had a young daughter and I was spending the other time raising her, And part of what really got me about working at this agency is that it felt really out of alignment values-wise With who you are.
Maira Holzmann:Yeah, the way that they were running the business and the clients that I was seeing, and the way that they were, it's not the way that they treated the clients, because they didn't treat the clients badly And their model wasn't working, at least in my opinion, because the recidivism rates were so high. And so I started looking around And I felt true jealousy and envy. When I was looking around on the website and seeing all of these clinicians who were filled up with private practice And, of course, because of the news feed and the algorithms, i started getting all of these ads for coaching And I resisted all of those ads for six months solid. I was like no, no, no, i can figure this out, i can do this.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:I can read a book, i can do this, i can. Surely I can figure this out, sure.
Maira Holzmann:And I did. It's funny because I actually bought two books like Essentials of Private Practice, yep.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:I have a whole bunch of those, but really what drove me to get a coach?
Maira Holzmann:is that I finally wanted to be successful And I knew I had it in me. And the reason why I knew I had it in me is because I had done successful work with clients, so part of my ability to feel confident enough to try it again, is that my clients were shifting, changing and healing, which is the whole reason why I came into this field in terms of working with clients individually, And I'm like well, if I can do this for someone else, then I can do this for myself. I love that.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:So what? so what you're, hold on. I'm sorry I didn't tell you that I was going to do this, but I'm going to interrupt from time to time.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:I love it Because there are just moments here that I just I really want to sort of highlight. I want people to catch this when they're listening, because it's so easy to gloss over it, Right? And there are these little nuggets of wisdom that you're dropping that I just really want to capture. So this comes back to believing in yourself. So I love the fact that you made this. Y'all can't see me, but I'm talking with you. You can't see me, but I'm talking with my hands, Because if I don't move, I'm going to put my hands down now.
Maira Holzmann:Sorry, i just realized what I was doing.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:What I love about this is that, for so many healing arts folks, we are so tenderhearted And we often believe in our clients more than we believe in ourselves. Right, so we pull on them like we're like, we pour into them. You can do this, you've got this. I believe in you. I see what's possible for you. We will not let go by, golly, we will go with them as far as they're willing to go. But we, we don't treat ourselves that way, we don't call ourselves that way, which is also, i think, why we need coaches.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:But what you did, the fact that you said look, clinically I'm good, people get better, people get better, people get better when they work with me. So clearly I've got something. Just the fact that I haven't figured out the business part yet doesn't mean all the bad things I'm dumb and competent, i can't handle this. I'm not cut out for this. It's just another skill set. Sure, i will. I will learn this one way or another, because I'm a good therapist, and if I'm a good therapist, i can learn how to run a business.
Maira Holzmann:Exactly.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:I love that. That's so powerful.
Maira Holzmann:You know, one of the things I'm so appreciating about our time together so far, wendy, is is these interruptions where you really seem to what you're doing that is so encouraging for me and almost makes me want to cry a little bit is like you're pausing me and being like you know you kept coming back and you had confidence in yourself and you trusted yourself and I don't. I didn't realize all of the things. I mean, i know it. I know it in the sort of like broad, kind of amorphous way but you're going.
Maira Holzmann:No, you did this.
Maira Holzmann:Yeah, this is what got you here, and I feel like that's really important for your listeners to heal here, because you, we can't see ourselves, because we're living in ourselves, and when someone outside goes and this is part of how I made the leap from agency work to private practice is my reputation at my agency was really strong and I was invited to mentor new clinicians and I was really good at it and those clinicians really liked it And I just sort of kept getting this feeling of like, yeah, i actually really know what I'm doing.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Yes.
Maira Holzmann:And that's something that we as clinicians, as you were saying, we can pour all of that belief and, you know, encouragement into our clients, but we don't do that ourselves And when I think about it, it's actually one of my superpowers.
Maira Holzmann:It's one of the things I really know how to do, which is like believe in myself, and one of the things I do that I'm going to be. you know that I teach and that I can talk about right now really quickly in my business coaching program is like I ask clinicians like what have you done successfully so far, what trainings have you completed? What major traumas or big life experiences have you had to overcome? Right, and there's a series of things so that clinicians really understand exactly the unique gifts that they're bringing to the table. And I have learned how to do that, i think, just automatically, because, frankly, especially because I'm somatically trained, it felt way better to be self-loving than it was to be self-negating.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Well, there's a thought It feels so much better to be self-loving than to be self-negating.
Maira Holzmann:There's a quote I mean, but it's so true And that's one of the gifts of somatic training is like I can feel, like my chest expand and my chin come up, when I'm like you know what, Myra, you've done really hard things in your life prior to even being a clinician.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Like you can do this.
Maira Holzmann:This is not nearly as hard as all the stuff you've had to survive.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Yeah, yeah. So and then I can do this and I don't have to do it all by myself. So part of my learning that I can do this is knowing when to go get the help that I need to do it. So you made the decision to jump into coaching and I don't know who you've worked with or what that experience has been, and you don't necessarily have to share that if you don't want to.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:But I know that for myself, like the very first coach I ever hired was for $300 a month back in the early 2000s and I couldn't believe I was paying that much money And now I could, like probably buy a small house for the money I spent on coaching. Exactly. You know, it's kind of it's insane And I'm curious about like what was, because I also see this as a block for a lot of healing folks that we want to go to training, that where I pay $125 for a full day workshop, and that's not what coaching is like. Like it's a pretty significant investment if you, if you get somebody good. So how did you, or was that a challenge for you? Or are you just one of those people like you? like you just when you know that you need it, you need it and you don't think twice about that that leap into paying and hiring and investing in a top level coaching, because clearly the coaching you got has served you really well. Yeah.
Maira Holzmann:Well, the thing that I had to overcome was and I'm not sure if I'm answering your question, so definitely guide me if I'm not.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:It's just a big decision to make to spend that kind of money on coaching, which people are so reluctant to do.
Maira Holzmann:So they're so reluctant to do So? one of the things and I think maybe most listeners know this, but if they don't, i'm just going to say it because it was a basic principle I had to understand and it served me for my entire career But there's a difference between investment and cost. Yeah, cost is something that you just don't get back. I go out to dinner. That's the cost, you know. Apart from filling my belly, it doesn't do anything else for the rest of my life.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Yeah.
Maira Holzmann:But when I invest in coaching, my return on investment and I'm talking like this now, but I didn't think it back then I needed to make at least 10x on my investment and my initial investment was, i think it was 18 or $2,200 like. compared to what I pay now for coaching as well, that's nothing. That's like a drop in the bucket and I don't say that to be weird or rude, but it's just true. I've invested so much.
Maira Holzmann:Yeah, and that's one of the main principles that I had to learn is like okay, myra, and this was the motivator for me For me, if it was like, if I'm going to plunk down a couple thousand dollars, you better damn well believe I'm going to show up and I'm going to do everything.
Maira Holzmann:this coach says Yes, and I'm not going to question, i'm not going to be skeptical And I'm also. One of my other superpowers is I'm really good at being in beginner's mind. I'm really clear about the things that I don't know, and it was so clear to me, even though I didn't know it for six years when I was failing in those other three practices. I just didn't know what I didn't know And it was really important And that coach definitely launched me and that then became a thing that I invested in yearly, right, that investment versus cost concept. Yeah, it's the same thing like the first time I ever used Google ads. Like my coach was like, no, you need to spend like this much money on Google ads. And I was like, oh my God. And then we did the math.
Maira Holzmann:He's like Myra if you get one client I'm spending $500 on Google ads.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Yeah.
Maira Holzmann:This is how much money you stand to make, and I was like, oh, Look at that.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:I get that money back, which is why it's an investment. This is the key. This is the key. Yes, yes, i remember the first time I hired a coach, at a pretty high level, and she said my goal is for you to make that money back in 90 days. And I, like I, wasn't thinking that way at all. I was. I wasn't even thinking about making it back at all. I was just thinking about what am I going to learn from being here and how cool it is to be here, me too, and when she was like, i was like, oh, that's a thought, yeah, that would be great.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:And of course that does happen. Yes, i did, but it doesn't always work that way. Sometimes you don't. Sometimes it takes a year to make that money back, or two.
Maira Holzmann:I mean I did lots of things happen, But that was huge.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:So You have, you have, i want to. I also wanted something else. I want to say Sorry, this is the way my mind works.
Maira Holzmann:I love it.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:We're just following each other It drives people crazy sometimes, Like finish this, and it's windy, Finish the thought You said. You know what you keep talking about, your three failed practices and what flashed into my mind a minute ago was that that was three experiments, three opportunities to learn what didn't work, three ways to test ideas. Three, all of those were. I know that failure works, to use that language, but I actually would not call it that. I would call it three attempts before I finally figured out where.
Maira Holzmann:I learned it. That's better language. I appreciate that. I'll take that Yeah.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Because it's not failure, it's just learning. It's lots and lots and lots of learning. Yeah And good Lord, and look where you are now. So, so fast forwarding. Now you've got not, you've got, you've got marketing that works. Semantic partners is a long way from chrysalis rising, so right.
Maira Holzmann:I mean, i'm like therapy partners and I'm like I I I'm glad you're chuckling at that, because again at the time I was like, oh my God, we, we, we're going to like lock this down. Chrysalis rising is going to be so big.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:And it was like we've all done this kind of stuff. I've done it too. We've all done it. It's so pretty.
Maira Holzmann:I know It doesn't matter.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:But you've gone from that to a practice that is super clear, that has a very clear promise, that of what you can deliver to your clients. People respond Now you're learning your. well, you already knew this. You were already I'm thinking kind of a natural born leader. You were already sort of in in group situations where the person who sort of steps forward them So I think when you thought people were also would ask you to mentor them, that you were seeing is something right. So that's in you already. but taking that to a business setup where you are now responsible for other people's livelihood, and where I love the.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:I love how clear you were about I want people to be employees, because I am very particular about how things are going to go here. That vision and that clarity about who you as a practice are and what you guys stand for is beautiful. And now so? so you're going from that, which is only a couple of years old, And now you're beginning to teach other people how to start a business. That, too, seems like a big leap to me. So how did you get from one to the next? Like because you're in my mind, like you said, I love the toddler baby business because I think that's a really good analogy. You've got a toddler and you're teaching other people how to parent already. Where'd that come from? I?
Maira Holzmann:know, i mean I'm kind of chuckling and shaking my head a little bit because this is the impulsive side of me, that's like this would be fun And you know one of the things that I teach my clinicians and we might unpack it, but the soul of any business, in my opinion, has to be bound with joy, meaning that the container has to be filled with joy, and I love running my business. I actually really love the business side of things and learning all of the things, and the big leap is because I take a lot of trainings in somatic modalities And I'm in a lot of Facebook groups that are dedicated to clinicians and providers And the scarcity mentality that seems to be in like double bold, bright, neon, all caps and letters in these communities drives me not, so I feel like I know that I'm a very purpose driven person, which is why I'm in this field, and I also want to support clinicians in getting out of that, because it's just the air that we breathe in our training.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:So true.
Maira Holzmann:At school. In these trainings I've been in conversations with clinicians where they're just like, yeah, if you don't accept insurance, you're unethical. And I beg to differ. That is because they're like well, we've got to serve at least people. And I even have had conversations with the clinicians where they're like well, i don't want to just work with rich people because I charge a lot for my fees And I was like it's really interesting that you say that because not all of my clients are rich, but what all of my clients are are dedicated to their mental wellness, and because they get results and because they know they're going to get a return on their investment, they're willing to pay me premium fees.
Maira Holzmann:Right And I would not be this successful and able to charge premium fees if clients did not do well.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:You're not ripping them off, you're giving them their life back And they are. And I always say this we find ways to pay for the things that we value, and that means something that make a difference for us. We find a way, yeah, and your clients find a way, and they find a way. That's right.
Maira Holzmann:So I just think it's a really important piece because we have so many as clinicians. we have so many stories Like go into any Facebook therapy group and you will read scarcity here I mean in literally every single post. right, i read this one post where a 30-year season clinician was selling the benefits of one of those platforms that you sign up and they get you clients and whatever.
Maira Holzmann:And he was saying something like this is the best that I can, the best that I've been able to get paid at 120 an hour, Oh my gosh And good for everyone who charges that and gets paid that, and I'm also telling you that the ceiling is much higher than getting paid 120 an hour.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:That's all.
Maira Holzmann:And he was the person that was like you know, it's really important that we as clinicians and healers don't just serve rich people, And I was like you are making a lot of assumptions about who I'm serving. But I didn't respond to that, But I was just like, okay, that's your point of view.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:I have heard those very same things And I have different ways of responding depending upon the situation. But, like sometimes, when people tell me that they feel like they have an ethical obligation to take insurance, i'm like, okay, that in your practice you should do that, because your ideal practice should work for you. I don't see it that way, but I'm fine if you do So. Talk about working in alignment with your values, that's fine. Then do that, but do it in a way that is conscious and intentional and where the math works and make sure that you're not hurting yourself at the same time. And there are ways to do both. You can run a hybrid practice as well.
Maira Holzmann:That's right.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:There's lots of ways. I also feel like when you make good money from people who can afford to pay, who are happy to pay and who honor and respect the exchange of value they're getting with you, you can afford to turn around and serve people in other ways that aren't as pricey. There are lots of ways to help people. So many ways, and you can do it from a place of abundance in a way that you cannot do from a place of lack.
Maira Holzmann:So I'm totally with you on that Yes, 1000%.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:In agreement with Wendy. So seeing when you said it's just in the air that we breathe, I'm like, yep, preach it. I call it social work thinking And it really challenges people. When you start pushing back against that, It really stirs up a lot of feelings.
Maira Holzmann:It stirs up a lot of feelings. Yeah, so here you are deciding to.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:You want to teach people this. So, has that? you've mentioned to me that that's been a process for you to kind of come around to thinking. I can teach people to change the way they think about business. I can teach healers to think differently. Talk, tell me about that like what that's been for you personally.
Maira Holzmann:Yeah.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:This is a long. This is quite a journey for you, isn't?
Maira Holzmann:it. It is, yeah, i mean, we're on the journey the whole time. But you know, i'm the kind of person that I really seek out novelty. I remember taking some kind of personality quiz and there was a thing for novelty seeking and out of 100, i scored 99. Which means that I really like new things, and part of what I know about myself is that I can get bored after three to five years of doing the same thing.
Maira Holzmann:Now, the good news is that I'm not bored doing my clinical work, because I love it. I mean, when you work from a somatic, when I'm working from a somatic perspective, i mean the entire universe that is in someone's body, that makes up who they are, is infinite in terms of its capacity to explore. But yeah, i was telling you before we actually began the podcast that I so last summer, in June, i started a coaching program to learn how to launch an online course And I only had six months in which I could basically do this but follow the teaching center and do all of that kind of stuff, and I came up with so much resistance that I dropped out of that program for three months and didn't do anything with it, because it was like and this was a new phrase that I learned from another coach.
Maira Holzmann:she said new level, new devil, meaning like when you get to the next, when you're trying to get from one place to the next, whether it's a healing process, but specifically in business.
Maira Holzmann:Then you get to this new level And all of a sudden you've got all of these, this new devil that's here of skills that you need to learn, of things that you need to make happen, like there's just so many things that go into that. And during that three months I was so stuck in my head about because there's lots of now therapists, trained therapists, who are also teaching your offering coaching courses and the big stopper for me And this happened when I was early in private practice Here was the thought in my head like who do I think I am that I can?
Wendy Pitts Reeves:do this Like why do I?
Maira Holzmann:why do I think I can do this? I'm not trained in marketing. I'm not trained in business. I don't even know how to use an Excel spreadsheet.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:This is what you were thinking last summer, as you were working on building an online course.
Maira Holzmann:This was what I was thinking when I when the resistance became so great that I basically stopped working on the course.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:So I was like same thing that you had been through when you were starting your practice, like it's the same.
Maira Holzmann:Yeah, exactly So the pattern repeats itself.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Right We run into ourselves over and over and over. I can't do this. I love how you said that.
Maira Holzmann:Yeah, I can't do this, Like, who am I? And you know there was a. I had like chosen a few, not competitors, because I don't think of it that way, but people who are doing the same thing, And I was just. You know I would get dejected. That was one of the bad habits I did at the beginning of my career too was like looking what everybody else else was doing Right And thinking, well, I'm not Peter Levine, the founder of somatic experiencing, So who am I to, like, come along and try and do this? It's like, of course I'm not Peter Levine.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:No, nor do you need to be Right, exactly Right.
Maira Holzmann:So you know, the path has been really winding and I just launched this past Monday with my coach and I had to overcome a lot and I had to employ every single skill at my disposal because I know a lot of them. And you know, when I finally broke through resistance and I showed up for one of the free one of the not the free, but one of the live coaching calls, i just I called myself out and I said, hey, coach, i've been struggling with this, like I'm really stuck in a place where I don't, i don't, i don't know why people would want to buy from me. And he just laughed at me in a loving way And he's like Myra, how much do you charge for your sessions? and aren't you in the process of hiring? And he's like I know that you charge way more than anybody in the Denver area. And I was like, yeah, i do. And he's like you're living proof that you know what you're doing.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Right.
Maira Holzmann:And I was, like it was the remote, like I can feel the warmth spreading in my chest in that moment, cause I could just relax. It was like right, i don't have to try and be like all these other people.
Maira Holzmann:I'm going to deliver what I know how to deliver, because what I know, which is a lot, because otherwise I wouldn't be at the level of success that I currently am, and so you know, i had to keep forgiving myself and I had to keep not being hard on myself when I would procrastinate or not do the thing I said I was going to do until finally I was like no, myra. And again, this is one of my big motivators. I plunked out a lot of money for this coaching course and I will not let that money go to waste Not going to waste it.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Yep, no, not going to waste it.
Maira Holzmann:And one of the thoughts I had, because, you know, I didn't realize that. I knew that I was lodging another business by doing this coaching course, but I was also have this other business going on And I was like, oh my God, I'm so busy, I had no idea. And one of the things I told myself was you know what, Myra, if you never launch which I think I did already but if you never launched this, you have learned a lot coming from this course. Like, one of the biggest things I got out of this coaching course was I had to look at my path just in the same way that we're talking about it during this interview.
Maira Holzmann:I have to look at my path and be like okay, what did you learn and how did you get here?
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Yes.
Maira Holzmann:And it really helped me get clear about how much I know.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Yes, because I forget how much I know Yes. So one of the things that I do with my coaching folks is I always start calls off by asking them what we're celebrating like. What celebrations do they have in the past week? And then we have quarterly retreats and we begin the retreats all by taking a pretty deep look at what has happened over the last 90 days. What have they accomplished? And it's so much fun when I watch them sort of. They start off by like I don't know, i don't feel like I've really done anything, and then like they'll think of one thing, and then they'll think of one more thing, and then it's, before you know it, like the list is really, really long. And they're always, always, always, every single time they will say to me golly, i had no idea.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:You know what I've actually done a lot, i know I'm glad that you see it.
Maira Holzmann:Yeah, exactly.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Because we we as entrepreneurs and if you're in a practice we are wired a different way. We are always focused on the horizon, we're always focused on where we're going to go next And we see the gap between where we are and where we want to get to And we never see how far we've come. So that process of turning around and looking behind you and kind of going, okay, okay, i've got that, i've got that, i've got that Serves you. It's not a waste of time because in that moment you are integrating the learning, you're owning it, you're claiming it.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:I would think, using your language, you would be like taking it into your body right and like Living it, and if you can do that, you can do the next step. It is always going to be hard. You're always going to be bumping into your next. What I think of your growth edge, the next thing you've got to step into. It's always going to be challenging, always. But y'all, that's what growth is, that's what it is. That's what it is. That's the nature of the game, and that's the nature of the game, right, i wouldn't want to be any other way. If it was any other way, i'd be bored to death or dead. I mean like this is what life is right, is it's evolution. It's the evolution of our practice and of ourselves.
Maira Holzmann:That's right. Yeah, you know, i mean it occurs to me as you're talking, if there was one habit That clinic like anyone listening, they could start creating, it's just take stock of everything you've done in the day, every single day, because it's no small affair that you return 10 emails and that you had a consult call that you converted, you know out of three and that three out of three in that day. And again, like I just love how clear, how clear you are, you know about your perspective of wanting to support the people that you work with the clinicians in, really taking stock of how much they know, because we forget and I'm so. I mean you've been doing that with me this entire interview, like hold on a sec. You did what. You kept, coming back after three practices and I was like, yeah, i did do that, like I, i could have quit. That would have been an easy thing for me to quit and just work for an agency.
Maira Holzmann:For the rest, of my life Right so it is a really important skill is like okay, what do I know and how much have I done? Okay, great, i've done a lot. And then to feel that in the body, you know Because, and really from the somatic perspective, when we are feeling empowered or in flow or aligned, it's a sense of expansion, it's a sense of softening and it's a sense of settling down in your body.
Maira Holzmann:Yes, I look for those cues, because those are the experiences I want to reinforce, not the shame based one, not the fear based one, not the worry, but like okay, i was scared, but I did it anyway. I did the thing. I called my coach and I just said, listen, i'm stuck. And he did this and I was like okay, and then I started again, which is exactly what happened with this coaching course. Like as soon as he said that I Were, i mean I don't recommend this, but I worked. I was probably working 12 to 14 hour days just to try and catch up on all of the stuff that I should have been doing, or Why is like a sprint? We'll call it a sprint.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:It's not something you want to keep going, but it every now and then you have to do a sprint. Yeah, so there are. There are lots of little things here that I also think are worth highlighting. One is that, again, i mean, when you you said I could have just stayed with an agency, i'm thinking I don't think you could actually, because I think, i think this is your spirit, is like It's like the blade of grass pushing through concrete, like you're going to go one way or another, like you're not going to stop. I don't think, and I think those of us who are wired this way, we cannot, we can't not do this right, i just can't. So I love that and I want to respect that and honor that and notice that. And And again, in the coaching thing, you dropped out, but you got back in again. Here is the thing that I think is important about that is that Accountability is important, having somebody outside of ourselves that we that can say why aren't you doing this and what's holding you back? Where are you stuck? because we all get stuck. Fears crop up, limiting beliefs crop up, old patterns getting our way I am also. I tend to disappear.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:So I was in a coaching a pretty heavy, serious program for several years and When I would have, i'd have like a big period of success where I was like knocking it out of the park and the money was rolling. It was like who? I'm feeling really good, and then, i don't know, there'd be a mercury retrograde and the universe would shut down and nothing would happen and I would be like, oh yes, see, that was just all a fluke, i'm a failure. The truth is I can't do anything and I would just like, i would hide, i would just disappear, i would stop calling in on the group calls, i would go quiet in the forums, i would, and you know, a few weeks would go by, or six weeks, sometimes a long time, and and somebody would, somebody in the program, a Coach would say where are you, what you doing? come back.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:But we, we need that and From a sort and it doesn't have to be a coach, it can be from peers who are, who are, who are on a similar path, who are Self-aware and who are doing their own work. I mean, that is possible. Yeah, we're person concept that, but it is possible. But we need people in our life who see what's possible, who can call us on our crap. To be honest, who can say you're doing it again? Do you see this pattern? You've been here before. I recognize this in you. Let's shake this, shall we? because new level, new devil. Let's go tackle it.
Maira Holzmann:That's right.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:This this is what success looks like. It's really messy, and it's exciting and frustrating and Great whole thing, the whole thing.
Maira Holzmann:I mean I feel like it's one of one of the best personal growth paths, not knowing that it was gonna be that way when I began ever undertaken. I mean I've, you know, i've done a lot of personal. Yes, i'm a therapy and I've been, you know, i've done all kinds of things and boy, being an entrepreneur and reaching levels of success That I didn't imagine, like that first coaching program. I mean I was full, with a wait list within six to nine months.
Maira Holzmann:Hmm, and charging premium fees and not taking insurance, and I was like you learn so much Because I'm so much and really what it is is I kept showing up.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Yeah.
Maira Holzmann:I just kept showing up to do the thing, Which is why I didn't quit. After you know, the third failed private practice is like okay, i'm just gonna keep showing up. And then I had to also practice not beating myself up, because that's kind of an easy thing to do and Scarcity also teaches us like okay, like, play small.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Yes.
Maira Holzmann:As you said, I'm not actually wired to play small.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:No, you are so not. That's obvious. I mean, I knew that the minute I met you. And I love that because you will pass that on to your clients as well. Right, i often say that running a business is like being in therapy, because your stuff is gonna show up no matter what and you have To work through it or you will not last.
Maira Holzmann:That's just. You have to work through. Yeah, you got to.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:You got to over and, over and over again. This is so awesome. So today, today, today, you are teaching other people through the lessons that you have learned yourself, which have been many. You are sharing that spirit of resilience and Wisdom that has that is hard-earned. You're passing that on. I love that. You're sharing the techniques of strategies, that, the just simple business stuff that we don't know.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:And You also talked to me before, in our last call, about A new metaphor that you're using that I want to dive in. We've got a little bit of time left, not too much, but I wanted to talk about this new metaphor that you're using as that we, before we pull this, this, this conversation, to a close. You talked to me about sacred geometry as a way that you are thinking about your work these days, which I was captivated by. That's such a cool. It's a little bit like chrysalis rising, but not quite, so There's a way to do this right. So talk to me about how, where that's, where is that coming from and what do you mean when you're using that as a metaphor as a business owner?
Maira Holzmann:so I have a really strong spiritual practice this is a little bit of context and I was trained in a school called the modern mystery school and I was initiated, which means that In in the most basic way, i am a lightbearer, so I'm a light worker on this planet and part of that training Which I don't know a lot about, and so the thing I also want to front load about this is that this is a work in progress, because This concept of the you know the sacred geometry of healing and the way that I recently presented this to my entire team when we were onboarding the new clinicians, but you know the way that I presented it is the sacred geometry of healing and somatic therapy partners and Using basic, the most basic shape.
Maira Holzmann:so it starts out with a triangle, it starts out, starts out with a square and then it starts out with a circle and really where it began with was the truth square, and the truth square Actually is a term from Straw bale building, straw bale homes, and so, if you don't want to straw bale home, it's basically it's a home that is billed with straw and hay and they use a bunch of Sand and I'm totally botching this for anybody that knows about it But it's basically like material, it's a more eco-friendly way to build a house and within a straw bale house.
Maira Holzmann:There is a thing that they put in every house called a truth square, and the truth square is where it's a little door that you can open So that you can see the integrity that it was made with straws. When you open it up, you see that they're strong.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:You can see, like seeing in the walls, to see what the walls are made out of, and see in the walls and That started everything I like and it was my husband who was telling me about this.
Maira Holzmann:Now It's like truth square, like just the name truth square sounds so good, and then I sort of left it alone and didn't do anything with it. And then I was, i think I was in the shower and all of a sudden it was like Sacred geometry triangle is this, is in this, and square is this and this and this. So, to be more specific, this metaphor that I'm working with is about the Interrelationship and connection of some really basic principles that allow my that that runs through the truth of my business. So, part of the truth square and I'm looking at my, i'm looking at my diagram right now because I'm still playing around with it But the truth square, the four sides of the truth square are, at least for my business, the culture of our business, the values that our business runs by, the mission and the vision, and that's the truth of who we truly are. And so I'll pause here in case you want to say anything about that.
Maira Holzmann:But that's how it began, and then I just sort of built it up and again into this.
Maira Holzmann:You know, the triangle represents Me, the client, and then the we space that we create, and then the circle, which is the way that I Visualize it, is that the triangles at the is at the top, and the circle, the truth square, is in the middle, which also represents the body. So the triangle represents the mind, the square, the truth square, represents the body, and then the circle represents the container that we all are Holding for our clients. And for me, one of the things about my coaching program is that I'm really wanting to support clinicians and being so allied Versus ego aligned. Because for me, what happened when I was ego-aligned meaning that I was pursuing the money and I was pursuing the status and I was, you know, just like, like I remember at one point I was I said to my team I was like we're gonna be a ten figure business, like that is such an e. Not that I don't want that, but it's like that's such an ego statement to make yes, and it's also very masculine.
Maira Holzmann:It's very masculine, yes, yes and it just wasn't working for, and so what ended up happening is I got burned out.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:So yeah, because that doesn't sustain you, that doesn't feed your heart, that never, ever works for us very long. Ever.
Maira Holzmann:Yeah, never, ever works for us very long Yeah and so I wanted my clinicians and somewhere we're gonna put this somewhere I'll write a book about it. But, like, to me, that approach is the way that we need to like, not need to be as healers, but it's. It's a good format because it's really about the, the essentialness of It's, about the essence of the person showing up with another person who wants to support them in healing.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Hmm.
Maira Holzmann:And so you know what sacred geometry is really about is that these, these really simple shapes, can create really complex things. And it's not about the complexity but it's about for me, it's about the artistry and about the building on of basic, you know, foundational things in whether it's in business or in healing, that allow me to grow of all been shipped and create these sort of like Beautiful patterns in nature, right in nature. That's where it comes from. So the geometry comes from in nature.
Maira Holzmann:I and you know what I can tell you as I'm talking about it is that when I can talk about it and I But the feeling in my body is just one of expansion and softness and grounding. It's like this. It's like it's like a framework that I can use and my clinicians get the framework because I'm Pushing it all the time. So, like what I was training clinicians like one of the things that we do in our weekly supervision meetings in their first 90 days, one of the questions is going to be is in what ways did you uphold or Integrate somatic therapy partners values into your sessions?
Maira Holzmann:because we really were super clear about our values, our mission and our vision, as well as our culture and so this sort of takes care of the individual aspect of working with clients, as well as the as Uses a metaphor for my business the organization?
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Yeah, absolutely I Where I was. What's going through my mind? as you saying a minute ago, i'm not, what's his name? living Peter Levine. You're going, how can I be do this? I'm not Peter Levine. And I'm like, no, you're not, you're my hero. So and and look, you have second, you're, you're, you're creating your own framework. That's right This is going to be your unique framework of how to approach a business, how to approach our work in the world. That, that's right.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:You can use the principles of somatic not of somatic, but the principles of Psycho geometry. With the way you're thinking about it, i love and I know that this is beginning. I know you're just. You just begin to hash this out. I'm like that with the. Mine is the seven pillars of an ideal practice, and it took me two years to come up with right.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:And I, and it started with sitting with a sketch pad, sitting around a campfire, thinking like, well, wait, what? what do we have to do? You know, and it takes a while for this kind of thing, but this is for framework, this is what's going to be unique to you and it's gorgeous and I love the whole thing of a soul aligned practice versus an ego aligned practice. The way I relate to that is I've never been able to do anything for very long if I was just doing it because it made sense, financially Agreed Just cannot do, i can't sustain it.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:We can't do that either Right, i can't, i get bored, or it's too hard, or it's not any fun, or it just feels icky. I like making good money. I have every intention of doing that, but that can never be the main thing. I have to be having a. Personally, i like to have fun and I have to feel like I'm doing some good. That's you know your soul. Aligned practice is like that's been. Your journey is learning that you start off talking about top down healing. Yeah, the same thing has happened to you as a business owner. That top down didn't do it. You had to sort of come from the center out, right, look at that Boom.
Maira Holzmann:Y'all can't see it, but she keeps doing it. You are so sharp, Wendy. I mean, yeah, this is a, this is you are awesome. I really appreciate your insight and clarity. I mean, I'm getting so much from our conversation and it's just so like I feel like we're twinsies in some ways. Yeah, I think so. I think so.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Y'all can't see it, but she keeps doing fist pumps in the air. It's really funny All the time. That's really good. Well, this has just been awesome. So let's tell people how who are interested in learning more about your work, either as a clinician or as a business coach, And I love the fact that I'm doing a podcast where I can celebrate other coaches. That makes me really really happy. I love this. This is one of my. this is probably my favorite thing in the whole wide world to do. How can people learn more about you? Where would you like to send them? You're launching a new course. How can they find out about that?
Maira Holzmann:Yeah, Yeah it's just So, let's talk about my course, so my where they can find me is at wwwmorethrivingtherapistscom.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:More thriving therapists. okay, we'll put that in the show notes.
Maira Holzmann:Awesome, yeah, that's right, and so that's for my business coaching course And if you want to see, you know, for whoever's out there listening, that's, you know, ready to sort of launch into something else, you can check out my website and see what I've built at somatictherapypartnerscom And then you will see the clinical side of me. So there's a clinical side of me and then there's the business side of me And I really love both of them equally And I'm super excited about both journeys And I'm really ready to support, you know, therapists who want to do good live large and thrive more.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Absolutely 100%. We have a similar mission in life.
Maira Holzmann:I know we do. It's so amazing.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:We do, and it's a big world out there. There's a lot of work to do, so I'm happy to have you along on this ride, my friend.
Maira Holzmann:Thank you so much for having me, wendy, it has been a true pleasure connecting with you. The resonance I feel with you is so much like. I have no doubt that our paths will cross again. I hope so You are such a delight as a host. Thank you for being such a great host.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:You're awesome, i'll send you your check. Well, i'll tell you what last thing before we close it. if is there anything that I haven't asked you, is there anything we haven't said or anything you want to sort of come back to that, anything you feel drawn to say that would make this interview complete?
Maira Holzmann:One thing I will say and this is this is to sort of help. Scarcity not be such a big thing is for everyone that's listening is dream bigger. And what I mean by that specifically is when I did my first coaching course, my horizon was here. Was my horizon? have a full practice, charge what I want and have a waiting list. And then I did that in six to nine months And then I realized I didn't actually have a bigger horizon beyond that. So when I hit that, i was like oh wow, i don't know what to do from here now, like because this is going to be the rest of my life And no one in my field has ever told me to dream big. No one has ever said and what I'll say about that is dream bigger in a solo line way, because you can manifest and make those things happen. But you got to dream it and know what you want in order to get there.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Oh, my gosh dream bigger in a soul aligned way. Perfect. Thank you, Myra. This is so beautiful. Thank you so much. I love every single moment of this conversation And I know that our listeners are going to get a lot out of it.
Maira Holzmann:You're just beautiful, thank you.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:Wonderful. Thank you, wendy. And with that guys, we can begin to wrap this up. But golly, was that not the most amazing conversation? I just love talking to a therapist, a wellness professional, healing arts magician, who does so much good in the world, who says I was not born to play small and who absolutely holds up a light for all of us to step up into a greater space. We do not serve the world, y'all, by playing small, and she's right. This really is in the air that we breathe. We are challenged not to think this way, and I don't think that helps anybody. I don't think it helps our clients, i don't think it helps our families And it certainly doesn't help us And y'all. A healthy healer is really good for a healthy client.
Wendy Pitts Reeves:So I hope you take as much out of this as I want you to. I hope you will send Myra a note. Find her online, go to her website, send her a note and let her know what this conversation meant to you. If this moved you in some way, tell her. We don't always hear that And it's good to know that. Share that with her. And, while you're at it, help me out too, if you could go over to Apple Podcasts or to Spotify and share a review of what you get out of this program. That would do my heart some good And it would help me get this in front of more people. This is a message we all need to hear. So thanks for hanging in, thanks for staying with me, thank you for all that you do in the world And I encourage you to go out there And, like Myra said, dream bigger in a soul aligned way. Thanks everybody, have a great week and I will see you next time here on Ideal Practice.
