#96. Can AI Help You Serve More People? A Conversation with Maria Szandrach.

I've got something a little different for you today, folks. We’re going to take a glimpse into the future, and talk about AI.

As healers (and humans!) navigate this new and rapidly evolving technology, it’s natural to feel a mix of curiosity, confusion, and perhaps even a little fear. But the reality is that this new technology is here - and we need to learn to understand it.

Today’s guest certainly gives us some food for thought.  I recently had the pleasure of speaking to serial entrepreneur, CEO, and general force to be reckoned with, Maria Szandrach.

Maria is the co-founder of Mentalyc, an AI-powered platform that automates note-taking for therapists, streamlines administrative tasks, and personalizes treatment plans.

Think about that for a moment.

In this episode, you’ll hear how Maria went from patient to disruptor once she saw how other industries were using the power of AI to work more efficiently.  Maria explains how she quickly realized that, no, AI can’t replace a therapist, but it sure can save them hours of time and help them serve more people, with more impact.

You’ll also learn…

1. How Maria identified a pain point for therapists that no one else was addressing. 
2. How AI can give therapists more time in their day, thus allowing them to have more impact. 
3. Why you ALWAYS need to read the fine print when using AI in your therapy practice. 
4. How to make sure that your patients don’t feel vulnerable or exposed if you’re going to introduce AI into your practice. 
5. When you can use a free tool like ChatGPT, and when you need to use a specialized tool instead. 

This is an important conversation, y’all, for a couple of reasons.

First of all, AI isn’t going away. The question isn't if AI will impact your practice, but when. Early adopters are already using tools like Mentalyc to save time and improve patient care.

So if you’re not open to learning how AI could help your practice and your patients, your colleagues will be.

Second, along with massive change comes massive opportunity. People from all kinds of professions and industries are finding new ways to solve problems and expand their businesses with the help of AI.

Could you be the next disruptor, just like Maria? Perhaps you’ll be another who finds new ways for AI to empower therapists. :)

Let’s explore the future of psychotherapy. Tune in to this week’s episode and see if AI might could be the key to simplifying your Ideal Practice. ✨

~Wendy
   xoxo

P.S. “Okay Wendy - THAT was interesting....!“ If that’s what you find yourself saying as you listen, would you please share a little love with a 5 star review and a few words over on Apple Podcasts or Spotify?

____________________
TODAY’S GUEST: MARIA SZANDRACH 

Maria Szandrach is the CEO of Mentalyc, the first HIPAA-Compliant AI Note Generator software for Psychotherapists, Psychologists, and Mental Health Counselors.  She actively engages in thought leadership while advocating for ethical and responsible technology development in mental health. 

• Her Website 
• The Mentalyc Guide to using AI in Private Practice.  (A free resource.) 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

You're listening to Ideal Practice, episode Number 96. And today, guys, we're gonna dive into something that's brand new to me, so I'm really curious about it and I'm gonna guess it's brand new to most of you guys. We're gonna be talking about how you could be using AI in your private practice. So stay tuned. Hi, I'm Wendy Pitts Reeves and, with over two decades of experience in the private practice world, I've built my six figure business while learning a lot of lessons the hard way. This is the first podcast that shows you how to apply the principles of energy alignment and strategy to build a practice that is profit centered, but people forward. This is the Ideal Practice Podcast. Hey everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the Ideal Practice Podcast. And golly, we've got a really interesting conversation for you today.

Speaker 1: 1:16

My guest today is Maria Shandluck, and you'll hear me say that again in the interview where I was practicing saying that, right, maria was born in Poland, went to school in London, including the London Business School, and spent some time in Berlin, germany. At some point landed in the Bay Area of California, and you'll hear where she was today when we had our conversation. It's really, really, really interesting. She is two years three years now into growing her third startup and, as you'll hear me say, I love meeting a young woman who's heading up a tech company, which is what she's doing, and I loved meeting her. And what we're gonna talk about today is how to use AI in your private practice. This is a whole new territory, folks. Right? Maria is a serial entrepreneur. She's already. This is her third startup that she is involved in.

Speaker 1: 2:16

Now You'll hear a little bit about her background in the interview, but what we wanted to dive in today in particular was a little bit about how can you use AI in your practice and what are some things you need to be careful about and watch out for, what are some of the pitfalls you need to be alert to and where do you even start if you're thinking about exploring this a little bit more, and what are some of the tools and some of the options that are out there.

Speaker 1: 2:43

So she had some really, really good points to make for us and I think you're gonna find this really interesting. So with that, let's get in to the interview. All right, everyone, thank you so much for tuning in and welcome back to another episode of Ideal Practice. I am not kidding when I say this is going to be a really cool conversation about a brand new topic that we have not even begun to touch here, on Ideal Practice, and it is my highest honor to introduce you to our guest today, maria Shandrak and I'm practicing saying her name and she says I'm close. So, maria, come on board and say hello to everybody.

Speaker 2: 3:26

Hello everybody, and so thank you for having me here. Wendy, absolutely, maria. Send him for pronunciation was very good.

Speaker 1: 3:36

We're working on that, yeah and Maria. So tell everybody a little bit about where. Just tell them where you are today, Cause I love this where you are, why you're there, and then go ahead and tell us a little bit about kind of what you do, who you help, how you help them. Let's just kind of set the stage a little bit. I love knowing where you are and why you're there. I get a kick out of it.

Speaker 2: 3:58

I'm currently in Chile I'm basically a digital number, it seems in some time. I would say I was previously in Mexico, before I was in California, where I very often come because that's where our companies had flattered. But I was born in Poland, I studied in London, I also worked in Berlin, in Germany.

Speaker 1: 4:19

Oh goodness.

Speaker 2: 4:20

Wow In the right.

Speaker 1: 4:24

So Poland to London, to Berlin, to California, to Mexico and today Chile or Chile. So for a bunch of other stuff, by the way, but that's right and I was asking you what you're doing in Chile, because you're there for several months, I think, and I thought I thought she's gotta be there for the hiking because I know it's really pretty. But that's not what you said. You're there for your business. Why are you there?

Speaker 2: 4:50

I wish I had time for hiking, but actually the reality of my traveling is that I mostly work. So yes, I am here to work on my startup. That's right notes for psychotherapists automatically using AI.

Speaker 2: 5:07

Our team is fully remote, so we have colleagues on pretty much each continent maybe apart from active, and that's why I can also leave this lifestyle, because the company never closes, so I have calls with different people across the day. But Chile is actually a sweet spot for me in that regard because we have a lot of. We have a big team in, actually like Europe and Africa, while we actually sell to therapists in the US, we also have some colleagues there and also, for example, a designer in Brazil. So Chile is really like this place where I can have most of my calls during my day, not in the night, not in the middle of the night, yeah, yeah, this is one of the factors about global teams and global work.

Speaker 1: 5:53

I'm learning this as well because I also have team members or literary around the world and I try really hard to make sure I'm working during the day, but a lot of them are not. It's not unusual that we're having calls when it's 10 o'clock at night for them, or later sometimes. So, yeah, so you have literally planned. You have chosen a country that works, because the time zone works for your company and that you can do your work between your customers and your staff in this company. So tell everybody a little bit, which is lovely. I mean, talk about going to Extreme Lints to make sure that you can run your business. It's kind of a kick out of that.

Speaker 1: 6:35

So you run a company called Mentallic, and you told me I got that right too, the first time we met. It's like metallic, except that it has the word mental. So M-E-N-T-A-L-Y-C. Y'all who are listening to this Mentallic and this is, as I understand it. This is a startup company, a tech company designed specifically to help psychotherapists, especially to use AI for their documentation is where you are right now. I'm sure that you're going more for that, but tell us a little bit like how the heck did you get into that? How did you land as the CEO of a tech startup, especially focusing on mental health? I'd love to hear this.

Speaker 2: 7:19

I was always very passionate about businesses and basically like turning my passions and things I care about into actually businesses. So when I was 10, I got a hamster.

Speaker 1: 7:33

And you got a hamster.

Speaker 2: 7:36

And I figured out that I could have a second hamster and I turned it into like a hamster breeding company that I was running in my basement.

Speaker 1: 7:43

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2: 7:45

I have like 20 cages, like a whole production line if we can call hamster we can go this way and I had like my whole like little accounting notebook. I got to know all the pet shrubs in my neighbor who would figure that when they were new hamsters. Later, when I was a bit older I was like around 14, 15, I was trading all the violence because I actually went to like a music school, right, so I played the violin.

Speaker 2: 8:13

And when I was 18, I actually co-founded my first kind of like proper startup, which was an insurance company, basically so like a company selling insurance online.

Speaker 1: 8:26

At 18.

Speaker 2: 8:28

Yes, I was still in high school.

Speaker 1: 8:31

Where were you when you were 18?

Speaker 2: 8:33

You were doing that when were you In Poland, in Poland.

Speaker 1: 8:37

So you at 10, you got a hamster. I'm gonna recap things along the way just to make sure I'm catching it. So at 10, you got a hamster, and then a second one and thought, oh, I can breed these. And I've got a business. And you were breeding hamsters and selling them to pet shops in your area.

Speaker 2: 8:51

That's right, that's right.

Speaker 1: 8:53

What a hoot. And then at 14, you were trading old violence and making money from recycling violence because you were into music, right. And then at 18, you started an insurance company selling insurance. I didn't know what insurance was, at 18 or North, but I didn't care.

Speaker 2: 9:10

I was very interested in businesses and finance, so I was reading a lot of books. I was collecting some like magazines for traders and reading them every day.

Speaker 2: 9:21

I went to some competitions in high school like basically on like finance, economics, all those topics. So when I went to the business school actually at 19, I basically didn't have to study because I knew all of this. So I was growing my startup, doing other things right, so that has always been a really big thing for me. But also while doing this insurance business and a couple of other things later, I found out that, even though I really really love doing businesses, it actually makes it much better if it's about something that I really deeply care about.

Speaker 2: 9:54

The insurance wasn't that big so.

Speaker 1: 9:57

Well, that's something a lot of therapists can relate to. It's good to have a practice that's about something you really care about, and insurance isn't one of those things.

Speaker 2: 10:05

I can relate that's funny OK. So then I did a bit of soul searching and I found out that mental health is the thing that I care about.

Speaker 2: 10:15

A lot given that I had an eating disorder as a teenager. So I met five different therapists in that process and two psychiatrists, and it took a while till I recovered. I don't have any symptoms since almost 10 years now, but it was definitely a very painful and very complicated, I would say, time for me and my family. So when I was looking for that topic that I think is still not really solved, I started, my thoughts were always going in that direction. So I first tried to create an app for clients with some psych education and so on, but I figured that that's not actually where the problem is and there's a much bigger problem around what therapists are doing with their time. When they date. They could be just healing the client and instead they write notes, worry about insurance.

Speaker 2: 11:12

And if they write notes, they often do it some days later, or even if it's at the end of the day, after seeing different clients, it's hard to remember everything. So then I started thinking maybe there is something we could do around analyzing this data to help them in that regard there were a bunch of different topics I was looking into, but as AI was emerging and that is our main topic I started looking at all AI applications across industries and also specifically in mental health, to understand what is possible.

Speaker 2: 11:51

And there I figured that AI is used much more in actually other industries. They also at some point worked as a management consultant, I work in the financial industry, so they're everywhere using AI. And then when I started talking to therapists, I found out that they're just often writing maybe some notes on the site in a notebook, then typing it into the EHR, and they're much better solutions out there, not even just only for notes, right, but for a lot of things basically. So I try to understand what is the limitation. There was a lot of discussion around protecting the data, also how different systems are not connected to each other. So there's an EHR, there's something else, there's maybe the billing, there's insurance, all those different parties involved. So around the time I met my co-founder, who's a machine learning engineer and software developer, who had a lot of insights into security of software and how to train AI models. So they are slung story shorts from all this passion for business and mental health. Being a topical care boat and meeting my co-founder that's how we are where we are.

Speaker 1: 13:06

This is crazy. So you I apologize, I got a ding. I, even though I have my focus, don't interrupt me thing going and it still interrupted me, so I don't know where that was. So, speaking of technology, so you, first of all, you're a serial entrepreneur and you love studying business and looking at ways to make money and to make a difference and kind of putting systems together. It sounds like you kind of enjoy the challenge of the puzzle of figuring it out a little bit, but then you realize you wanted to do if you're gonna run a business, it needs to be something you care about. That definitely makes it more sustainable. It helps if you really care.

Speaker 1: 13:44

And it's interesting to me you started off looking at it from the client side, the patient side. What can I do that can share information, is gonna help them, which makes perfect sense, cause that is kind of where we tend to go, like how can we educate the public about mental health issues? But there are a lot of people doing that. You went at it from a completely different point of view, which is how can we help the providers and y'all wanna I kind of wanna highlight that for a second cause. That's a really smart, strategic business move.

Speaker 1: 14:15

Here's a problem that lots of people are working to solve. Here's a problem barely anybody's thinking about Maybe a few there's a few out there, but not a lot. And so you were looking at how can I give therapists more time back in their day so they can see more clients and do more good and not be spending their evenings. And you're right. I mean, I have a lot of my coaching clients. When they are sending me their like their weekly notes about how things are going in their practice, oftentimes they will say I finished, I caught up on my notes from last week, and that's a win. I caught up on my notes from last week. And I know people who have had literally have had notes outstanding that are months old, sometimes even a year old, where they just they scribbled something but they never got around to actually writing the note, and so you've come up with a way to solve that. I love that, okay.

Speaker 2: 15:05

Cool. There are also some other things that I was trying to solve. So maybe also the reason why I went first after the clients, right, the patients it's because I was one. So I was thinking, okay, I had this problem, I had to go to all those therapists and like, wait, like we long queues, right, to even get to talk to one. So later find out that maybe it's actually not the right one because the eating disorder is quite specific, right? So if it's like and CBT therapist, it's like she's mostly anxious clients or depressed might not be the right fit.

Speaker 2: 15:36

So then I would need to switch and I actually like went through almost all modalities, or at least like the big buckets of modalities. Right, like CBT is ecodynamic, systemic. I went pretty much to all of those therapists and then when I was trying to help clients, I was into, like where it brings something called this AI solutions? Right, with my co-founder, we've seen that AI is there, but we quickly figured out that it cannot actually replace this therapist and we cannot tell AI to just like I don't know, go and figure it out, right.

Speaker 2: 16:09

We need to work with therapists because they are the ones that know how to do this and while, in the same time, there is a little bit of this kind of information getting lost, right? So, as we're saying, like these nodes are taken away later, we don't have all the details and also one therapist can see, just like a certain number of clients with certain problem in their lifetime, right?

Speaker 2: 16:32

So, especially if it's like anything disorder case. Maybe they just have seen a handful. So AI has actually this amazing superpower that it can analyze, like gigantic data sets and look for patterns. So what we were wondering is how can we leverage this to actually bring something to the attention of the clinician that maybe they have not noticed right, so that they will still be there to have this like connection with the client, which is super important, and they cannot do this, but they can actually leverage all this data to potentially just like see more.

Speaker 2: 17:07

Like everyone has some like blind spots right In what they see so we've noticed that AI has, like, actually a lot of, like possible benefits, but then we started wondering how can we even bring it to the therapist right? Like when we started talking to therapists, we were telling them about this technology and they were asking us who is AI?

Speaker 1: 17:26

They were saying what is AI?

Speaker 2: 17:27

Well, who is AI? Who is AI?

Speaker 1: 17:30

Oh, that's funny. So you were thinking like every like you can't replace you're right, you can't replace a therapist, like you can't replace a human being who is doing this work with another human being. But you were thinking, if we can document their work over time, ai can maybe see patterns or symptoms, or like there's a hint, there's another problem here that perhaps the therapist doesn't see. So when you started talking to people about that they were. Their first question was like who is AI? Ai can help you really.

Speaker 2: 18:01

Who is that? Yeah, because exactly we started doing it around three years ago. That was before all this wave of like the TTC and everyone talking about it and now we don't think that's a problem. Right Now everyone like connects AI as a keyword.

Speaker 1: 18:14

That's funny. You were ahead of the game.

Speaker 2: 18:16

But when we were saying, like AI could help you, the doctor was, like, is this a person? Like, was it a training course? What is it? So, really, the awareness was like shockingly low, which was interesting because, like, other industries were already using AI, right, so, like coming from the business background or financial background, or those financial analysts like is AI all the time to make financial decisions? So I was thinking like there is something to this. Right, the AI could help so much and there is no awareness, no one is using it. So, from all the research and all those discussions we ended up writing notes, is this appear to be the biggest pain point next to notios that notios cannot be less or so soon, right, at this point.

Speaker 1: 19:02

I have a way to solve the no show problem which I talk about all the time. But the right your right notes really is that and filing insurance claims documentation. Because if you have a self-pay practice and you're not using third party reimbursement, you just have to meet certain legal and ethical obligations for your notes. That's good enough, but if you're playing the insurance game, there's a lot to consider in how you write your notes. And it's a pain in the rear end, it sure is. Yes, so you have actively set out to solve that problem and that's what mentality does, right yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:41

So mentality writes notes and this has like multiple benefits. So on one hand, it is saving time, of course. On the other hand, it's keeping all this information, so nothing will be forgotten. So we can use it, for example, and we like update treatment plans and so on. Right, we just have more data. We also really care about protecting clinicians from insurance.

Speaker 1: 20:04

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 20:08

So we follow like very closely all the new updates like regulations or those like recommendations from the payers, right, like one has to be included in the notes and we consider that very strongly when we like in the style of writing right and what is included.

Speaker 2: 20:26

So, for example, we always include medical necessity. We like really document like symptoms with the onset frequency, like anything that is in the DSM-5 of the impairments. So that is very, very clear and that there was actually medical necessity right and the same for interventions. We make sure that we frame them in a way that they sound like they're basically clinically approved. But also, what we're working on these days is we want to include some supervision features and that's also something that I can help with, because that's where we can bring to the attention of either the supervisor or both of them right, like certain patterns in both what the client, what is happening to an individual client, but also like what the therapist does, a lot right or what changes Like do they speak more in session, do they speak less, do they ask more open questions?

Speaker 1: 21:19

You're tracking the therapist's behavior and the clinical intervention, what's going on here, so that they can use that in supervision when they meet with the supervisor for training?

Speaker 2: 21:28

Yes, because the way we write notes is we transcribe the session right. So this way we actually have like verbatim of everything that was discussed. So this allows us to actually exactly like, find some patterns, what is happening and help therapists use this. Basically.

Speaker 1: 21:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I was looking at your website and kind of reading up on how the process works for in your company and I do wanna, I wanna talk about that. And then I wanna expand this a little bit about how AI can be used in general in a practice. But for mentalic, as I understand it, the therapist informs the client that you're gonna be using this tool and there's a whole and you have a whole lot of support around the ethical concerns, the HIPAA compliance, and we'll get into that here in just a minute because I do wanna talk about that. But essentially, you explain to the client what you're gonna do and then you, there is a verbal recording.

Speaker 1: 22:25

Well, you have two choices, I understand it. You can either record the session live, like on a Zoom call, like this, or, if you're meeting in person on a tool, like on your phone or whatever, that recording is uploaded to your server where it is instantly transcribed, and your website says that any identifying data is erased or anonymized Turned anonymous that's a hard word to say so, like names, places, that kind of stuff is hidden and the recording goes away. Y'all don't store that. You keep the transcript and then the transcript is automatically put into a format that fits what most insurance companies want and various. No, you've got a bunch of templates. That's right, you've got a bunch of templates.

Speaker 2: 23:16

I see you know really a lot about Iris after Look at me.

Speaker 1: 23:20

Well, I was studying. I wanna know what we're getting into here and I was kind of curious about, well, how does this work? So just yesterday, just yesterday, I had just a brief conversation with a therapist that I wanna bring on in a few weeks, and one of the things she said about her success was, she said, she said I think I use technology a lot more than most people do. It's kind of freakish, actually, and I got a kick out of that and she was telling me that and I wanna share this with you because then you can tell us some more. She was saying that she uses AI for like everything. Like when she's planning her week. She can use AI to say here are my priorities for this week, plan my schedule for me, and it will map out the best use of her time. Or she uses it to plan a home workout. She uses it to plan topics she's gonna record videos on for her audience.

Speaker 1: 24:11

I don't know, other than documenting your notes, which is a biggie. Where do? And the supervision that you just mentioned, where else? What are the blind spots that we have in terms of our running? A small private practice, you're a one person show, or maybe you've got a small group practice with, say, three to five practitioners, how could we start to think about using AI in our practices? What do we need to be turned on to and be aware of?

Speaker 2: 24:38

There are definitely a lot of ways that I could be used. So the reason why we have have actually the specific tool for documentation is because this is a really hard task for AI and a lot of very sensitive information, right. But there are a lot of things that actually don't require tools like ours and, for example, we could use chat GPT for any other like generally used AI right, and those are, for example, planning, planning exactly your day right, you can just in this information about, like what you care about, a lot of things that you want to do in this day, and it can help you.

Speaker 2: 25:13

Like brainstorm, it's actually kind of like this, like sparring partner and like exactly like another person in the room, right, so you can tell them like, oh, this is my problem, those are the things I have to do, those are my constraints, and it can help you structure it very well.

Speaker 2: 25:29

And we also see that a lot of young clinicians or students use it to help them learn right, so they would like it helps conceptualize something, so it could basically input, like, for example, describe like I'm seeing this client. Those are the problems. I don't know what to do for the next session, right, or what should they read to to get better in helping them, and, and AI definitely can help with a lot of that. I've also heard from from practice leaders that they are trying to build like a database, like a learning database for like a group practice, right, so to make sure that that clinicians learn more about topics that they identified as important, and it is possible to use AI to to kind of feed it with all this information, like couple of books or so, and then just ask it to answer questions. So it is definitely like an amazing tool for all sorts of learning, planning, structuring, also treatment planning.

Speaker 1: 26:29

Oh yeah, planning yeah.

Speaker 2: 26:32

But the main, the main restriction of those tools like a GPT is that it's it's not very safe to put there anything like session transcripts, right, or yeah you have to always watch out to not put any PHI in there.

Speaker 1: 26:45

Personal health PHI personal health information yeah.

Speaker 2: 26:49

So so for that it's better to use dedicated tools, and but there are also other other companies out there that, for example, help with intake or With like in between session interactions that use AI, and those are also something specialized tools like what explained that to me in between, like how would you use AI In between sessions with a client?

Speaker 2: 27:13

Give me a, tell me what it can like chat with the clients and similar to as we can chat with GPT, right, but it would be trained on the different data sets. So it's it's trying to act as kind of like not a therapist, but like a helper to the therapist, in a way, and and it can, for example, prompt the client to to journal and what, start asking some questions like how was your day or how did you feel today, right, so so it can kind of deliver those very simple interventions.

Speaker 1: 27:43

Like the email. Would that be an email or?

Speaker 2: 27:46

no, usually it would be an app through an app the client needs to download an app and Somehow like configure it a bit at the beginning, right, maybe the therapist would also have access to it. On the other side, there's one such tool that I know in the UK that works with NHS, so like the national health system as it's actually approved by NHS, which which I guess means that that it's it's not a joke, it's a real. Yeah, so too, yeah, and there the therapist has access to it. So so the they can, for example, input like was a diagnosis, what is like the homework that they should be doing right, and then the the tool is kind of like making it look a bit more like Interactive and more like a human right. So it's as like how are you feeling today? Maybe like write a bit about it, and then they I can actually analyze what they say and maybe pick some like main topics and Bring this to the attention of the therapist.

Speaker 2: 28:41

So there are also some, some solutions around intake. So, for example, it would send like a link to so like possible clients in the queue, right, and they they can also interact with like a bot and sort of device and they they can basically be asked certain questions that help us to kind of skip the intake as a session right, the reason we actually went for for notes was because we've seen that the big problem is that therapists actually don't have time. So but they possibly see more client or to conceptualize sessions, like really use their clinical skill set and Instead of like scribing something, those other tools, I would say, depend kind of on what is the main like blocker in any practice. Right, every practice is a bit different.

Speaker 2: 29:25

So if there's a really long wait list, and you want to collect this information up front, then those intake tools could be great.

Speaker 1: 29:35

And so you could use AI to Gather some gather information. If you had a long waiting list of clients who were needing to get in, that could help you with triage, probably help you sort out the clients who need it most importantly, or whatever, or Help you if I was thinking that that would work in a group practice. We and I mean I used to run a group practice that we had 10 to 12 providers most of the time and our phones rang off the hook all the time, and I would. This is a really interesting point. I would sometimes spend as much as anywhere from two to four hours After work, sometimes depending on returning calls and Helping figure out where to send people like which therapist made sense in our practice. Now I look back on that now today as a business coach and I think, well, I should have hired somebody to handle that, like there's a, there is a, there are other ways to handle that, but what I'm hearing you say is that you could actually use AI To sort of shift through that.

Speaker 2: 30:35

Yeah, so that's that's where, exactly like if it's a group practice, it definitely makes a lot of sense because you could just have like a link on the website. Instead of talking to To a person, the client could talk to this, this AI. But you can also constrain AI, right, so it won't talk about something completely random, yeah, but it will actually, like always do this conversation to like collect the information that is required.

Speaker 2: 30:56

Yeah and then it can profile the client. They could be a different AI. That is kind of like a much-making algorithm, right? It would say, for example, this clinician of this profile would be the best fit for this kind of stuff. So definitely insanely useful for for a bigger practice.

Speaker 1: 31:11

And what is the name of that app that's in the UK that the National Health Service uses? Do you remember?

Speaker 2: 31:17

It's called limbic limbic LIMBIC.

Speaker 1: 31:21

Is that it LIMBIC?

Speaker 2: 31:23

Yes right.

Speaker 1: 31:24

Okay, so the UK's health system is completely different from the US, of course, and when I talked to colleagues in the UK, they never understand our moaning and groaning about insurance, but it would be interesting to go see that app as an example of how this could work. So I want to, I want to get into Some of the things to be careful about, but I but I do want to highlight what you're saying here is that, because I really want to kind of get people's wheels turning a little bit to think about this. So what I'm hearing you say is that you can use AI To plan, and I could. You know, I'm thinking as I, as I'm saying that I'm thinking, when I'm planning a course, when I'm planning a launch, when I'm planning a series, an interview series, I could probably use AI to help me map that out, just by Explaining what I wanted accomplished and what the some of this. So, planning, learning. You talked about gathering a library together of information that could be tailored to your particular staff and treatment, planning and then structuring, which all that dovetails together, of course, but what's your reminding me of?

Speaker 1: 32:33

So I was just kind of playing with jet, with chat, tpt, last fall, and I was planning a to like a 16-day trip to the Pacific Northwest and I had certain places I wanted to go and I was trying to figure out the best route and I'm tolling a DIY person. So I was like looking at roads and airbnbs and does it make more sense to go here first or there first or whatever? And I thought let's just see what chat TPT does. So I threw it in there and said here's where I want to go, here's how much time I have. I'm driving what I want to make sure I spend extra time here, here and here. What's the best way for me to do this? And by golly it's spit out Day two, day three, day, five days. You know, go here, drive this far.

Speaker 1: 33:15

It was so much fun because then I could take that and sort of edit it right. I could tell I have not done this in my practice, but I could see the whole thing about. I've got a difficult situation. How do I help this client? What do I need to understand before they come back next week? What's the best source for me to go look at to learn? I love that. That's great.

Speaker 2: 33:34

So tell me for yeah, I think for those things exactly, chadgpt is great, so I would, I would like, advocate for using it for that right, like I also use it every day. Everyone on our team uses chadgpt a lot and I believe nowadays, basically like a lot of people do that.

Speaker 1: 33:52

Generic stuff for generic things that are not patient.

Speaker 2: 33:56

But it also gives, it gives just a good idea.

Speaker 2: 33:58

So even if it's exactly about treatment, right, you can, you can ask it to just give ideas for the next session, right, and it gives you like 10 things, and then maybe there is something like you're oh okay, maybe this right, and then you can do more research in that direction, but it's, it's kind of just like it is brainstorming tool, that's. That's a very good use case. Also writing right, if you need to write any, maybe like write a homework that you actually want to send out, right, it can like nicely phrase it.

Speaker 2: 34:23

And so that's. That's also very good and I know that some therapists use it for for notes as well. There are a lot of courses out there and the therapist like some some therapists, influencer therapists right create. But there are really big limitations to this because, at least from the insurance perspective, what is very important is this consistency right and that it's always written in this exact way. So GPT doesn't have very good results when it comes to that. It's not trained to do this so it doesn't usually have a very deep clinical insight.

Speaker 2: 34:58

So all the notes because our team reviewed a bunch of those GPT methods suggested by some therapists that teach it right and they're usually very shallow, superficial. So it kind of has this subjective, objective assessment plan section, but it's very brief, right, it doesn't get to the gist of it. So that's like for some use cases like this one, it definitely makes sense to develop like a dedicated software that keeps the data safe, that always does the same thing and is consistently improved for better accuracy. For that Analyzing the whole session is not a trivial task. There's also a big discussion because, as we're saying, it can rewrite the note like it can help you frame it right. So some therapists try to put in there like ugly note kind of right, and then polish it. So that might work. But it's again a little bit tricky when it comes to getting consistently the same looking notes, because AI is great for brainstorming.

Speaker 2: 36:07

It's also like a bit of creative power. Once it writes it this way, then it writes it different ways. But anything exactly creative writing, brainstorming, planning it's an amazing tool, so I would highly recommend it if someone comes back and I hear a warning in there.

Speaker 1: 36:24

I hear your warning from you and that, yes, you can use this to plan a course, to create a workshop, to lots of sort of big picture things, but when?

Speaker 1: 36:35

it comes to actual work with your actual clients and documentation, especially of that work that meets all the proper requirements. You need to be careful. So talk to me about some of the things we need to be careful about, because I'm remembering. One of the things that I remember you saying when I met you the first time was you said there are things that seem to be HIPAA compliant but really aren't. At least I think I remember you saying that Is that right.

Speaker 2: 37:03

Yes, that's correct. So because nowadays all this GPT and similar tools are so popular, there are a lot of very young companies that just show up one day and they kind of repackage GPT in a different product. So they have a website, they say you can use AI here and it is HIPAA compliant. But then actually what sometimes happens is that if you read the details and you go to like terms of service, you will find out that it actually says that you cannot input any PHI into that tool, and then it only HIPAA compliant, which means it's not actually HIPAA compliant.

Speaker 1: 37:40

And you won't catch that if you don't look at the terms of service, which most people never even look at.

Speaker 2: 37:44

Exactly so it's. Really. I can see how it's very confusing to be kind of like a buyer or decision maker on that market, right, because those things are sheathen. Is it such a new thing, like a new wave, a lot of new things showing up? So if you search and Google for AI, for therapy, you will get a bunch of things, but probably just like two or three are like worth considering, right, and there will be a bunch that are just I don't know a couple of students like assembled something very quickly, right, because they're like oh let's just try it like in GPT.

Speaker 1: 38:16

Yeah. So you're saying, watch it. It may say that we are HIPAA compliant, but what they're really doing is just sort of copying or borrowing GPT or other things like that. And it's only HIPAA compliant if you don't put any personal health information in there, which kind of defeats the whole purpose. Exactly, exactly.

Speaker 2: 38:34

So HIPAA requires all this encryption or special security right, all the procedures and certain like rituals in the company, behaviors and documents. So all of this is there to ensure that actually the personal health information is safe and can be stored. So this is something that I would really suggest to it. So to be like very careful and like very curious about if it is actually HIPAA compliant, right, because there might be like a marketing post that says like HIPAA compliant tool for therapy, but checking there's a BAA, there's no BAA. That's already a big red flag and it's very good to go to like FAQs or terms of service and see, like, when there's FAQs at HIPAA compliant, right, Sometimes it would just say like a dictionary definition of it, right? So HIPAA compliant is an act something. So it actually doesn't answer the question whether it's HIPAA compliant. So really like look for such like inconsistency.

Speaker 1: 39:33

Wow. So this is really sneaky and tricky. Yeah, so we are right to be a little leery of diving into this. We need to make sure that we're doing it. We need to do our due diligence and make sure that whatever tool you use is what it seems to be. Yeah, yeah, wow. Okay, and I know it's mental, like you've been really careful about that. You've got all kinds of security built in. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 39:57

We were always very particular about the like, from day one when we launched our very first prototype.

Speaker 1: 40:03

Right it was over three years ago.

Speaker 2: 40:06

And it was already HIPAA compliant. So whoever is using our platform, this would be always right away on the entry, even if it's a free trial, right? Yeah, there is no way that someone can use it without HIPAA compliance. But, as you were saying, it's definitely very important to not be just like overhyped on the AI and just like blindly trusted, but also it's very important to not completely like throw it through the window for those reasons, right, because it's a great technology that can be very helpful.

Speaker 1: 40:38

Yes, right, right. So, yes, be careful, but that doesn't mean don't do it. Right, it's still like this really can change things for you. All right, and I totally get like how many hours back somebody could get in their week If you have a full practice and you're seeing 20 to 25 people a week or more. I know people who do more, which I think is crazy, but they do. You couldn't literally get hours back by using this process, so this is really something. Huh.

Speaker 2: 41:07

And we all use AI actually a lot, even about realizing right. Like if you use Netflix, for example, it suggests the movie that you might like, or same happens on Amazon, or there are some like suggested, like when we type right, it's something suggest like the auto completion of the sentence.

Speaker 2: 41:22

So the AI is already in a lot of products that we use, not necessarily like as like clinical help, right, but it's there to stay, so we all need to understand how to leverage it. But, as with many new things and innovations, being careful is very important.

Speaker 1: 41:41

I'm laughing because I am not what you call a first adopter or first right.

Speaker 1: 41:45

I'm not the one that's going to stand in line at midnight to buy the new phone. That's not my thing at all. I'm like let it be out for a while, let them work at all the kinks, and then I might be, then I might try it. So, first adapter, first adapter, so so, so ethical concerns Talk to me about, because this will be a biggie, besides the fact that you just said be careful when you choose to use a tool, to make sure it really is hippocompleted, check the terms and conditions, make sure it is safe to actually put a patient name in there and that it's not going to hurt you, right? What other concerns like what else? What ethically? What else do we need to be careful about? Like, do we need to worry about encryption? Do we need to worry about how it's stored on whatever? Like? What else do we need to be thinking about if we want to do this? We want to evaluate?

Speaker 2: 42:35

It's definitely important to see what data is stored right. So in our cases, you are saying we don't store the recordings and or the identifiers of clients and because we don't need them to provide the value that we're providing, Right? So we want to write this note. So for that we don't need to store that audio if you already have the transcript and also to conceptualize what happened in the session. We don't need to know the address of this person and of course, therapists can input it back into the tool.

Speaker 1: 43:05

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 43:06

You can still open a new client profile at all this information because it's safe. But because we don't need it to write a note, we remove it. So that's important, I would say, to see if the company doesn't store data, it doesn't have to store. But that is also covered by HIPAA, right? It usually says that you should have the information that you're using when it comes to encryption also, hipaa requires it. So a lot of those things I would say would be covered if you actually check if there's BA and if it actually doesn't give any signal that PHI is not safe.

Speaker 1: 43:37

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 43:38

Yeah, when it comes to ethical aspect, it is very important to offer information from the client about NEI that you're using. That is impacting them.

Speaker 1: 43:49

Yes.

Speaker 2: 43:50

Whether it's notes or whether it's like some intake bots or homework bots, they need to be aware that it's not someone writing to them. For that we have a template like a consent template that can be used?

Speaker 1: 44:04

You do. I was going to ask you about that, if you might have that. Yeah, so you have a tool that they would sign a document that they would sign and that you've gone over with them, which we're familiar with. We do the same thing with informed consent. There's lots of things that we're used to having to explain to people, so, okay, excellent, it's very important to include their risks and the benefits.

Speaker 2: 44:25

That's how we do that, so we also give talking points to clinicians, so it helps them to communicate about this, because there are definitely also benefits for the client. For example, the therapist is more present, more focused, doesn't have to look to the sides like it's something down, where it can keep the eye contact and can potentially provide better treatment because no information is lost. They can like recap the previous session before the next session and all the details are there. So there are a lot of those things that are good and helpful and it's good to explain them, but also always explain the possible risks. So we have them also all detailed out. So being very transparent is important For us as a company and also for whoever uses it. We talked to ethics committees quite a bit while we're building the product to understand if there is any, for example, like a big no on recording in the first place, right?

Speaker 1: 45:24

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 45:26

But there's none actually, because even if you look at physicians, they use such tools for a while longer, because they even used to have those.

Speaker 1: 45:37

Dictation Dictation.

Speaker 2: 45:38

But there's, like this previous generation of tools where physicians were using the therapist's haven't, where there would be first, there would be a physical scribe right that works after the doctor in the hospital and.

Speaker 1: 45:51

Yes, that's right, it would follow them around, take notes, that's right.

Speaker 2: 45:54

Yeah, Then there would be those tools which actually also record the session, but the scribe is sitting like in India or somewhere right, so it kind of looks a bit like whatever tool does, but there's actually a human there.

Speaker 1: 46:06

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 46:07

So in the medical world.

Speaker 1: 46:09

Medical transcription used to be a big side job. To get a work from home job, exactly, yeah, that's funny, let's bring it back memories, yeah, so it has been there right.

Speaker 2: 46:20

It's also like personal health information and so on, so there's no really reason to not record it. I think it's maybe the specifics of the setup that made therapists not do it right, because it would be like somewhat creepy someone sits in their therapy room listening right.

Speaker 1: 46:37

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 46:38

So it was never developed to be there. But in general, there's no rule that would say that you cannot record decisions. Just what is very important is to exactly make sure that all these precautions were taken.

Speaker 1: 46:51

Yeah, so I just had a flashback that I have not thought about in years that you just remind me of, when I was the family therapy director at a residential treatment center. I completely forgot this. I used to. I had a choice I could hand write notes after sessions or I could call on our landline telephone. I could dial into a certain number and press like one, two, whatever, and dictate the session over the phone.

Speaker 1: 47:20

And then somebody would type it up somewhere and it got put in the chart. I don't remember how, but I do remember calling on the phone to dictate a session, which is really funny. I hadn't thought about that in forever. We have this feature as well.

Speaker 2: 47:33

That's also.

Speaker 1: 47:35

Say that again. What was?

Speaker 2: 47:36

that we have such feature again as well that you don't have to actually record the session but you can also dictate a recap and what those tools were probably doing that you described. It was written exactly as you say it. So you would maybe need to say something and then full stop next paragraph. It would really write what you say, and in our case that's not how it works. So there is a dictation feature where therapists can just kind of like dump their phones, just talk.

Speaker 1: 48:05

Oh really. Like we can be completely random order and you know just Ah you don't have to speak in complete sentences, you don't have to say new sentence, you don't have to say what you just like though. Hey, I saw this person today and here's what I think is going on, and they said this and I said this, and I'm kind of concerned about that. You can like literally just sort of like free talk, spill it out there, and then your tool will organize it into a coherent note.

Speaker 2: 48:30

So the tool will give you both things like the verbatim transcript of what you were saying and next to it, like a well structured is transcomplete.

Speaker 1: 48:38

Wow, wow. And then I'm assuming you can edit that if you want to and tweak it a little bit if you need to yeah. Godly, that sounds pretty good.

Speaker 2: 48:48

So that's also like when we actually think of this ethical and so on, right, if someone is still unsure about recording, or maybe the client and content, that's, that might also happen. We see it specifically with clients with paranoia or so, right, there's always like a certain type of client that would be particularly scared of recording. So in this case that could be also used, which is still better than than writing the notes like three months later, right, because you still have it fresh in your memory.

Speaker 1: 49:13

Well, I was thinking as I was thinking if I was going to use something like this, I was thinking I would probably be more comfortable with that uploading something afterwards than I would having an actual recording. I have recorded sessions before anybody. In graduate school we were often encouraged to record sessions as part of the learning. But you, but it's a thing to get permission from the, from the, from your clients, to do that, and it is a little notice, it is less than than it used to be, I believe, because we're also very cautious of this.

Speaker 2: 49:45

We were like worried that you know, if clients don't agree right, our whole business would make no sense yeah.

Speaker 2: 49:52

But, actually it's. It's not the case nowadays as much because everyone is using the same in other like jobs, right. So if your client is working somewhere in a big corporation, let's say they will already transcribe all their meetings, right, have some notes from zoom and so on, some recent meetings, and so everyone is very familiar with it. So what we've actually noticed is that usually the, the therapist will be worried that the, the clients would not want it, and the clients are like no, of course you can use it. They use it every day.

Speaker 1: 50:19

Wow, really. What about legal implications? It just occurred to me, if you were dealing with a domestic violence situation where there's going to, or a crime, you know, ptsd, working with law enforcement, if you're dealing with something where there is, there's a very high risk that there could be legal involvement, a suicide, anything like that. Are you at greater risk legally Because now there's a literal transcript of everything you said in a session? I think I know the answer to this, but I want to see where you would go with this. Do I have to worry that what is in those transcripts could be brought into court and could hurt my client or, for that matter, me?

Speaker 2: 51:02

That is. That is a very good question and that is also one of the reasons why we anonymize everything, right, so the transcripts don't have any identifiers, so it could be like anyone's transcripts, basically. And also therapists have full control over which information is deleted. So if you work with such clients and you are scared of this, you can just not input any client information on top right, so it doesn't have any you can use, for example, like some nicknames or codes for your clients, so it's like unknown right.

Speaker 2: 51:33

It's like clients, like one or client A. The transcript doesn't have any name. So in this scenario of subnation, we cannot give anything to the court because we don't know whose data. That is right. Plus, you can also delete transcripts, so when the note is completed, you can start a note and delete the transcript.

Speaker 1: 51:51

So it's not stored on your servers, right? It's not stored yet. I wasn't thinking so much about if someone hacked into the system and stole that information. I don't really mean that. I mean, could the court subpoena me for that transcript, knowing that I used this tool or any of these kinds of tools, if the court it becomes aware? And I think where I'm going with that is that there are rules also part of the HIPAA laws about what can and can't be forced from the court, right In terms of what we have to share in terms of documentation. But I think one of the things I would want to make sure is that if I had that kind of a detailed transcript, that it could not be forced to turn it over later, with or without I believe it cannot be forced as long as it's not described whose sessions are those right?

Speaker 2: 52:41

So there are different ways that mentality can be used and we see actually that different clinicians use it differently and also sometimes clinicians with different clients use it differently. So if it's such a case, then you can just make sure there are no identifiers and the client has some like letter number code. If we get the request from the court and they say we want information on this, like Peter or something we're like, oh, we don't have anything like this, right, there's no such record. So we cannot give you anything. And that's basically at least what we understood from all the legal advices that we were taking when we're setting this up. And so we only can give data if we know specifically that this is that person, like full name, right? Otherwise we just have a bunch of de-identified nodes, Plus also, if you delete the transcript so you can, for example, store the node and delete the transcript, the node might have, let's say, this, full name, right? Then if we're asked for this, we will only be able to give that node because there was no transcript.

Speaker 2: 53:46

So in general, there are some benefits when it comes to storing all of it on our platform, because, first of all, it could be used as like just EHR, you can just have it all there. But also, when we develop more and more of this analytics around it, right, it could be helpful, for example, for the treatment planning to know how the client is progressing, and so on. So there's big value in keeping the data, but for those specific cases where you're worried about the data you work in prison, I don't know.

Speaker 2: 54:17

Then it might be better to use it.

Speaker 1: 54:19

Yeah, so for a general practice, holding onto that information because, oops, I hit my microphone Holding onto that information could be helpful because AI can learn and give you feedback that will help you be a better clinician. But if you have cases that are especially sensitive or you gotta be really, really careful, like extra careful, then maybe you don't hold on to those things, you just like store it in your traditional and I'm missing. The same question applies to EHR in general. For anybody who's doing electronic documentation, which I never did Like this is how dated I am. By the time EHR came online as a routine, like simple practice, and things like that became routine for people to use, I was already too far along in my own way of doing things, so I never have used any of those systems and I know y'all don't be throwing me any shade because I know I'm dating myself there, but whatever works for you works for you, so it's fine.

Speaker 1: 55:18

This is really really, really interesting, maria, and I love the way. I love the diligence with which you are approaching this problem by talking to ethics experts and talking to I know you're talking to therapists all over the place to learn more about what they need and how to serve, and it's not like you're being really, really careful about this in very detailed, and I admire that. I have a feeling you're gonna be doing really well. I love seeing a young woman growing a tech startup that serves my people. That makes me really happy. I love that, and I know you have put together a guide for us too. I should mention that. Tell us a little bit about this. You've put together a little worksheet for us, a tool that we can use. Tell us a little bit about what's on that guide.

Speaker 2: 56:03

It's kind of like a summary of what we were discussing. So what to double check on what to consider while choosing AI products right, or deciding even if you want to include any AI in your practice. I really think that including it in some ways a good step because, exactly as you mentioned with the EHRs, right now everyone is using them. So some of those kind of like ways that come, they just don't stop. So, you don't want to be, like, maybe left behind with it.

Speaker 1: 56:32

Yeah, I didn't get with the program. It's coming whether you want it or not. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 56:38

But we definitely, yes, we want to help to educate right. Because I also work with those ethics committees and because I went to therapy myself more than once, as we talked about it earlier, I know also how it feels like for the client right to be vulnerable and worried about someone discovering their problems.

Speaker 1: 57:02

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 57:03

I also really want to have therapist to feel like safe and okay about using it, so the whole topic is very close to my heart. I am very grateful to the therapist that helped me.

Speaker 1: 57:15

Oh, I love that. I love that, yeah. So, y'all, if you want to get that guide, we're going to have it on our website and the way to get it is go to wendipetsreevescom, my regular website. Forward slash, mentalic. I want you to remember the name of Maria's company, so M-E-N, as in Nancy T-A-L, so the word mental with a Y-C on the end, mentalic, m-e-n-t-a-l-y-c, and we'll have that set up for you so you can download that for free and that will give you some things to think about if you began going into this. So, maria, I got two more questions for you, or no three, okay. First of all, if somebody just wanted to dive into this and like I don't even know where to start, okay, you convinced me. I need to at least consider exploring how I can make my practice run smoother. What's the easiest entry point to start playing with this in a more purposeful way?

Speaker 2: 58:13

I would say, maybe reading about it. We actually have a blog as well that is written by clinicians. We have some hundreds of blog posts there on all sorts of topics insurance, coding, notes, note types and so on but also on, like, ai technologies and it's not only us. There are also great therapists teaching that, like, for example, the QA prep. We really like chatting every now and then with Melissa. She is like the main influencer when it comes to note taking et cetera, so we've been also consulting with her a lot when we're starting, and so she also now actually has a series on AI tools for notes specifically, but she kind of compared us to like other ways to do it with AI.

Speaker 2: 59:04

We don't have any like sponsorship collaboration with her, so she has very objective perspective.

Speaker 1: 59:10

And what's her?

Speaker 2: 59:10

name. Tell me her name again. Melissa Hall QA prep is her website with trainings on note taking specifically QA prep.

Speaker 1: 59:19

Okay, and Melissa, how do you? Because I want to, since you're mentioning her, I want to put her in the show notes, so people can look at it.

Speaker 2: 59:26

Yes, I believe it's H-A-L-L hall.

Speaker 1: 59:30

Oh, melissa Hall, got it. Okay, got it, Melissa Hall. I'll just make sure I put that in the show notes as a resource. So a good way to start is just to begin educating yourself about how what's possible here, and I was going to ask them where they can learn more about you, and you mentioned your blog, so that I love that you guys, stuff written by clinicians that's awesome, so that your website is at mentaliccom. They might remember that.

Speaker 2: 59:54

We have there. It's like slash blog or basically, if you go on our website, there would be also some way to get on that blog, okay? Or you can just type in Google like metallic blog. It also probably would show up.

Speaker 1: 1:00:05

Excellent.

Speaker 2: 1:00:06

So we definitely have a lot of good, good contents there, but in general searching for, like AI notes, ai for therapy but there again, as we were talking, I need to be careful and, like, really investigate Right what is valuable.

Speaker 1: 1:00:24

Don't just go if they have a pretty website, dig into the terms and conditions and make sure that you can enter personal health information in, whatever the tool is, cause if it's not safe to do that, if they have any kind of warning like this is. To me, this is a big takeaway from today. One is that AI can save you a ton of time. Two is don't be afraid of it. Make it your business to learn more about it, understand it. Three is, when you go choose a tool and I would say mentalic or any other ones, any other chat, gpt and all the other for-profit companies that are out there that I don't even know about yet Be sure and look at the terms and conditions and make sure it's safe to put in patient sensitive info, cause if it's not, then it is not truly compliant. Excellent points, excellent cautions, excellent encouragement. Don't be afraid of it. The way it keeps coming, that's really good. So this has been so helpful.

Speaker 1: 1:01:17

Maria, thank you so much for kind of introducing us to this topic that I know nothing about. I love like. This is a fun conversation and it makes me kind of want to dig in a little bit more into this whole idea, and because I see, especially the note-taking, which is more complicated, which does need to be handled more carefully. Because I see this as such an issue for a lot of my clients, I will be sure to start sharing that companies like Mentalic exist and that maybe they can look into this as a resource. Well before I bring us to a close, is there anything that I haven't asked you, anything, we haven't touched on anything, we missed anything that you feel called to share or mention that will make this conversation complete?

Speaker 2: 1:02:03

Maybe one small detail that Mentalic can write notes for all types of therapists actually, so including like couple, family, children who have some specialized items like free MDR or other trauma informed or like also for prescribers, we're adding group therapy right now, so if someone has specifically like that type of therapy or practice where they have all those different setups, then there is actually no other tool currently on the market that has all of those things right. So, that's just like additional, really cool benefit for.

Speaker 1: 1:02:40

Mentalic in particular. Awesome, yeah, and that's another thing to think about. Whatever tool, process, platform, company you explore, make sure that it works with your particular unique type of practice and with everything you might need in your practice. So if you are doing a specific skill set like EMDR, aait or something like that, make sure that it works with that. I love that. Yeah, that's really good. Okay, awesome. Thank you so much for being here, marie. This is fun and I really think I think you are gonna get a lot out of it and I think there's gonna be a lot more to come behind this. So thank you so much for being here today. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1: 1:03:20

Yeah absolutely All right. And with that everybody, I'm just going to encourage you to go download the tool that Marie has put together for the guide that she's put together for us wendypittsreevescom forward slash mentalic, I'll be sure, and have that in the link linked below in the show notes as well, and just look it over. And then I would go check out her blog and see if you don't, that doesn't kind of get your wheels turning a little bit about what's possible here and things you need to learn and know, and you'll be ahead of the game and you'll be out hiking or playing at the beach before your colleagues do. So there you go.

Speaker 2: 1:04:00

Yeah, All right everyone.

Speaker 1: 1:04:02

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