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Raising Kind Humans
Welcome to Raising Kind Humans, the top parenting podcast for raising empathetic, compassionate, and community-minded kids. If you want to move beyond basic manners and teach deep, actionable kindness, this show is your practical guide to purposeful parenting and family service projects.
Hosted by Katie Doughty, Raising Kind Humans gives parents, educators, and caregivers the tools to turn social-emotional learning (SEL) and empathy into everyday practice.
Episodes weave together the building blocks of the KIND Method, a 4-step framework for kid-friendly service projects and character building:
• KNOW: Learn facts and read books to build foundational empathy.
• INQUIRE: Connect with nonprofits, local helpers, and community leaders.
• NOODLE: Explore big concepts through fun, hands-on activities.
• DO: Take real-world action with impactful, age-appropriate family service projects.
Featuring interviews with child development experts, bestselling parenting authors, and nonprofit directors, you’ll discover actionable parenting tips, book recommendations, and weekend volunteer ideas for kids. Subscribe now to learn how to do the work, navigate tough conversations, and raise the next generation of compassionate leaders. Let's turn kindness into a verb.
Follow along on Instagram @teamkindhumans, or check out the website: www.TeamKindHumans.com
Raising Kind Humans
13. A Place to Belong with Amber O'Neal Johnston
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Amber has a beautiful book called A Place to Belong- Celebrating Diversity and Kinship in the Home and Beyond. It's a wonderful guide for families looking to authentically embrace the fullness of their diverse communities. We get to dive into several topics that I know you will love!
"A Place to Belong offers a path forward for families to honor their cultural heritage and champion diversity in the context of daily family life by:
1. Fostering open dialogue around discrimination, race, gender, disability, and class
2. Teaching “hard history” in an age-appropriate way
3. Curating a diverse selection of books and media choices in which children see themselves and people who are different
4. Celebrating cultural heritage through art, music, and poetry
5. Modeling activism and engaging in community service projects as a family"
You can check out all that she has to offer for resources as you root your children in their own culture so that they may openly embrace and love others with their whole hearts here: www.heritagemom.com
Follow her on Instagram @heritagemomblog
Don't forget to sign up for my newsletter at teamkindhumans.com
Head to kindclassroom.com or follow me on Instagram @teamkindhumans.
Hey everyone, welcome to the Raising Kind Humans podcast. I'm your host, Katie Dodie. If you're here because you want to raise empathetic kids with the tools to make positive changes in this world, you're in the right place. I'm glad you're here. Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of Raising Kind Humans. Today you get to hear a beautiful conversation that I was lucky enough to have with Amber O'Neill Johnston. She is the author of a book called A Place to Belong, celebrating diversity and kinship in the home and beyond. And her book, I couldn't put it down. And if you don't have a copy yet, please go grab one right now and read it. You won't regret it. On her website, it says, Gone are the days when socially conscious parents feel comfortable teaching their children to merely tolerate others. Instead, they are looking for a way to authentically embrace the fullness of their diverse communities. A place to belong offers a path forward for families to honor their cultural heritage and champion diversity in the context of daily family life by fostering open dialogue around discrimination, race, gender, disability in class, teaching hard history in an appropriate way, curating a diverse selection of books and media choices in which children see themselves and people who are different, celebrating cultural heritage through art, music, and poetry, and modeling activism and engaging in community service projects as a family. We dive into several of these topics in this conversation, and I hope that you enjoy and can take something away after listening. So if you'd like a copy of A Place to Belong, I am doing a giveaway right now. If you sign up for my newsletter, you will get all the details. Amber has been so kind in this conversation. She's been so generous with her time and her knowledge. I am so grateful that I get to learn from her, and I'm really grateful that you get to learn alongside me. So without further ado, please welcome Amber. Hello and welcome, Amber. Thanks so much for coming on the podcast with me today. Oh, thank you for having me. I'm excited. Oh, me too. I have so many questions. I had to um I typed them all out and then I had to pare them down because I could talk to you about this book forever. So you have a beautiful book called A Place to Belong. And I'm curious, have you always known that you would grow up and write a book about something? Or how did this come to be? How did you decide I'm gonna write a book about this topic?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's funny because some years ago, maybe six years ago, I was at coffee with some homeschool mom friends here locally. And one of the other moms had organized it. And rather than just like a free-flow conversation, she had this like prompt and she said, you know, if you could do anything outside of your like mothering and homeschooling, what would it be? And I was just like, she was like, No answer is silly. And I was like, I'd write a book, you know. But when I said that, I had no idea of what the book would be about. Um, I had no plans to write a book, you know. So I think back to that day and say there must have been something inside of me. Um, but I don't even know, I had no details around it. So fast forward when I finally had this um kind of idea, I had something to talk about. There was something important that I wanted to share and it almost urgent. It felt urgent. And so that's kind of what led me to know that it was the right time to write the book. And um I I um otherwise, if you would ask me, I'd say that's something I would plan to do when I was an empty nester, you know, when I wasn't raising kids anymore. That sounds like a perfect project, but the message needed, you know, the time was now. So I just did it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's almost like the the idea of writing a book was placed on your heart so you could get used to the idea a little bit. And so that when the topic came, you were, oh, I guess I am going to write a book.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that's that's exactly it. And the funny thing is, I don't really believe that I believed that I would write a book. You know, she said it could that knows no answer was crazy or wrong or silly. So I was just like, oh, okay, this is what I think about, or it's kind of like a dream. It was just a dream. It wasn't something that I really thought was going to happen, and definitely not this soon. So yeah, I think you're right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So tell me about your topic. You you have celebrating diversity and kinship in the home and beyond. So you said you had this sense of urgency um to write a book like this. So how did that start?
SPEAKER_00Well, I think that all there were there was a lot happening in our nation, a lot of conversations about um kind of race relations and what is the right way to raise children who um are inclusively minded. And people were arguing and fighting about it, and things were getting really ugly and you know, that were divisive, right? That we keep hearing everything was becoming more and more divisive. And I felt like in the midst of all that, the focus on the children had been lost. Like the adults are all fighting about how to teach kids history, what's right and what's wrong. We were fighting about statues, what needs to stay up, what needs to stay down, and we're fighting about um what's the right right way to protest and all of these things. And no one, it seems like agreed on any of it. And I just heard less and less about the kids. And that was one thing. So I wanted something that focused back on the children and their hearts because I do believe that that's the core area to focus on to elicit change, right? A new generation of people who think differently. But then also I was frustrated because there were things that I wanted to do to help, like I want to get out there and do this or do that or participate in this. And I really couldn't because I'm pretty closely tethered to home. I have these four children and I'm homeschooling, and you know, um, I just couldn't figure out my place. And then I thought I'm so tied to home and I feel like I'm doing really good work here in my house with my children. Not that that's the end of it. I have other things I want to do and can do, but that's a huge part of my calling at this time. So I was like, okay, I want to focus on the children and what can I do in my own home and what am I doing? And that kind of made me want to share with people the perspective of how we can enter into this conversation, this national conversation, in a way that is not divisive and a way that centers the hearts of our children, our collective children.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's that's absolutely beautiful. And it makes me think about um the Mother Teresa quote that was um, if you want to change the world, go home and love your family.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, and that one really spoke to me because I get overwhelmed at I want to be here and I want to do this. And I have, you know, I want to take care of this and I want this to change and I should participate in this. And when really I have these two hearts that I need to grow and that this is my way forward in helping them to be the change.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You actually said in here, let me find it. Um, you said this change won't occur because of rigid political stance or a controversial hashtag. It will be ushered in by people who love their children well and show them a better way. That just resonated with me so much because I thought I can do that. If nothing else, I will focus on that. So, do you want to speak to that quote a little bit about where that came from and your thoughts behind it?
SPEAKER_00I think that a lot of it came from the idea that I just saw so many people fighting and arguing, and they were getting louder and louder and meaner and meaner and on social media and all that. And I thought, to what end? Like, what are you achieving? Sometimes it's good to get loud, right? Because you need to be heard, but it there just seemed a lot of noise. There were there was a lot of noise happening, and I wasn't seeing the progress along with that noise. And so I thought to myself, I think a lot of people just want to fight. And that's not who I'm talking to. I'm not trying to convince people who would rather be fighting to read my book and to think of another way of doing this. I said, but they're the loudest, but they're not the strongest, nor are there are they the biggest. I think that most of us, and you think of mothers, mothers will unite over their kids. And I don't care, mothers from wherever, strangers, there could be a language barrier, but if you see the heart of another mother and she needs you, or you guys can form a bond to do something for your kids, I mean, we can get, we can make miracles happen, right? And so I said, okay, let them fight, do all that, but I'm gonna speak to the heart of the parents and say, like, let's do something different, guys. Let's let's do this differently. Like, look at we have this opportunity with our children. And as I say in the tr in the book, you know, we can raise our children to be comrades. And I just love that word because it's something slightly different than just friends, but like those who are willing to like go to battle together, hand by hand, like risk their lives for each other. Um, and so that's kind of where that quote came from.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That yeah, not only can we raise them to be kind to each other, but how do we get them to work together with one another and to to make this world a more beautiful place? They need each other and they need the skills um to do that. So you talk a lot about rooting your kids um in their own narrative and and kind of growing and watering those roots, I think is what you said, watering those um to flourish. So, what are some ways that you recommend um helping kids really get comfortable with their own history, with their own culture and their own um narrative?
SPEAKER_00Well, I think a big part of it to me is storytelling. And that's family storytelling. A lot of it for our family are those intergenerational stories, telling them stories about my parents and my in-laws and grand our grandparents and things like that. Um, but even for people who don't have those types of stories, um, speaking to our children from a legacy mindset, like letting them know and reminding them that the things that they're doing today matter past this moment. But um, I'm always telling my kids, you know, you're going to be somebody's ancestor, you know, like their eyes get really big and they're like, what? And I'm like, yes. And someone's going to care about the stories that you're writing. And we try to keep some little treasures as like family heirlooms, and we have a trunk sitting here where we keep, you know, kind of the best of the best. Someone someday will consider this a treasure. And I want you to be thinking of that when you're going about your day. So I think those types of conversations help our children to see that they're part of something. They didn't just show up here. They are they're a part of something that's been happening for a long time and they're a part of something that, God willing, is going to continue for a long time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's a really interesting perspective to help them understand that life will continue on after they are gone. And and what kind of legacy are you going to leave for those people who come after you? How interesting to think of it that way, especially from a kid mindset, you know, that's kind of mind blowing.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, you know, and I have to constantly remind them, right? Because they're they're kids. So they're wanting to just focus on the moment. But I think it's important because it allows them to see vis have vision for like why they need to work to make this a better place. Like for what reason? Because they could say, well, we're fine, we're comfortable. And having that legacy mindset and then talking about the sacrifices of the people before us, you feel somewhat comfortable because somebody was sacrificing and working their behind off. And now you have to pay it forward. You don't have the opportunity to just sit here. You do have to make it better and leave your mark on the world.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That's such a good reminder, even for adults, right? That we are living our best life and going to leave something better for the people who come after us. I love that. You had one that you have so many examples of ways to incorporate this into your home. But I loved um the one I connected with was all the Shutterfly books. You you make family albums on Shutterfly. That was the one that was like, oh, I actually do that. I take time to do that too. It's a pain, but it's totally worth it.
SPEAKER_00And like every year, don't you feel every year like, oh, I'm not gonna do it this year, you know, but you just can't stop because I'm like, well, now it's a tradition. I have to keep it going. Yeah. Oh my goodness. It's just, oh, it's it is such a pain and also such a treasure.
SPEAKER_02Oh, a hundred percent. I whenever the kids pull out a book and they'll flip through it and ask questions or see when they were a baby or when, you know, mom and dad were dating or whatever it is, you know, it's just like, okay, that's that's why I put in the time. But now I'm like, oh, it's almost September. I haven't even started this year's, like, I don't want to go back and do it.
SPEAKER_00I know it's so Chris. And every year I say, okay, what I'm gonna do is each month I'm gonna pull the best best pictures from that month and like save them in a folder or whatever. So then at the end of the year, they'll be all ready. And no, I never do that. So it's like December, and I'm just like sliding in there trying to get those holiday shutterfly specials.
SPEAKER_02That's so true, you know, and maybe I shouldn't give away my secret, but I always get my book done, you know, whenever it gets done, I save it in my cart until the um unlimited free pages.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they just had that, as a matter of fact, and I was also order copies for my mom and my mother-in-law. Oh, that's such a good idea. Yeah, that's what they get for Mother's Day each year. So there's like a little bit of a delay, but yeah.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that's actually a really good idea. I'm gonna I'm gonna bank that idea. Um, okay, so I want to dive into it's a little bit, a little bit heavier topic, but in your book, you say many parents have a misperception that talking about race and racism will put ideas into their children's heads. Often parents feel that their children's innocence will be marred if they're forced to think about ugly or difficult things too often. And I'm curious about this because I know it's uh it's a conversation I've had, it's a conversation my friends have had. I'm curious. And you even say you felt it too um before you had kids, so or when you had kids. So could you speak to that a little bit? I'd love to know your perspective and your opinion on that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for sure. I think there's this balance, right? We are called to protect our children, but at the same time, they're supposed to grow under our care. And I think for me, the thought that we aren't supposed to only protect our own children, but we're supposed to protect each other's children as well. And what I had I saw happening, you know, I started talking to my kids about these things because I noticed that they're on the, it's on their minds. Um, and I started doing research because I was a little bit nervous. Like, should I be talking to my kids about these things? Like, should I be giving them ideas that they haven't even had yet? But literally all of the research says kids are thinking about these things. Sometimes they don't have the language to articulate what they're thinking. And sometimes they don't feel like it's safe to discuss the things with their parents or anyone else because we tend to shush them whenever they do mention anything, like, oh, mommy, look at her skin. We're like, shh, you know, like you're not supposed to say that. And so they get this message very early on that those are bad things to talk about. And so they stopped talking about them with their parents, but they're still thinking about it. And what was happening was that my children were out in these environments and kids kept saying things to them that showed that they had no concept of race whatsoever or ethnicity or culture or anything. And I started getting upset because I started thinking to myself, well, this is just not right. Their parents are saying, Oh, my kids aren't thinking about this, so I don't want to bring it up. So then as soon as they get out in public and away, you know, 10 feet away from their parents and they meet a black person, they're they're peppering my kids with their questions that should have been answered at home. Right. And so I thought, okay, well, they are thinking about this. They just don't necessarily want to talk to you about it or don't feel like they can, or they don't know what to say because they don't have a vocabulary that um can encompass all these things. So I started shifting my idea from the fact of just like this whole protection, don't tell them about it, don't tell them about it, to more of an idea of growing them along. So drip-dropping the information, like I say, drip drop, drip, drip. So like a little at a time. Like sure, you don't have to sit down, hey, let me tell you. So there's black people, there's white people, and then there's brown people, you know? And it's not that. It's more just like always like them never being a time that you don't kind of just talk about it. And then when a child says, mommy, look at his skin, it's so black, as my little boy did in Target one day. He saw a person who was like literally the color black. And it was the darkest person he'd ever seen. And I was like, I know, buddy. I was like, his skin is really nice and it shows you just all of the shades that people come in. And in our country, we don't have as many people in that shade. It makes him more unique, which is why he stood out to you. But I think it's pretty cool. Instead of saying what I, which was my natural inclination, don't talk about that, you know, because he wasn't meaning it. It wasn't a negative comment. It was merely an observation. And so um, yeah, that kind of just started reframing things for my own kids and then, you know, kind of recommending the same for other parents.
SPEAKER_02I love that. And I love that you give them an opportunity to talk about it. And in the book, you talk about too um giving them permission to wait, that you will always talk about it, but maybe right now is not the correct time to do it. And so I really liked that because then that keeps the conversation open. They know they'll get their questions answered and they don't feel shame for what they're thinking or what they want to say at that moment.
SPEAKER_00Right. And that's, you know, I've just told them that it's all there's no question that they can't ask me, nothing that's too wrong or horrible or embarrassing, but that people in public out in public don't want to hear them talking about them because it makes them feel bad. Um, like they don't really know what you're saying. Because the kids will be like, but I wasn't saying anything bad. I know, but they don't really know exactly what they're saying and they don't know you. Um, it can make them uncomfortable. And so when we want to ask questions about someone that we're around, we save those questions for the car. And that's where they became car questions. So sometimes I can usually tell because whatever it is my kids see, I see that too. And usually what they're responding to is something they either hadn't seen before or that we don't see very often. So I know one day we were at the grocery store and my daughter, um, I could tell her eyes got really big and she leaned over past me and I knew who was standing behind me. So I knew what was coming. And I tried to catch her, like to reroute her, but it was too late. And this person was just very, very large. It was the largest man I've ever seen in my life that wasn't on television. So I knew that that was something new to her as well. Um, and I didn't catch that one fast enough, right? And so it was after that time that was my oldest. And I was like, oh my gosh, she totally embarrassed me. And and it and at that time I thought only about my embarrassment. And later when I got home, I thought, well, how selfish of me. I'm thinking about how embarrassed I am, but what about him? What about his feelings and how my daughter just made him feel? And I was like, okay, this can't happen. And that's when I began to explain to her that you could have you could definitely talk to me about him and ask me questions about him, but not in front of him. Um and so yeah, we kind of just went on from there. And they're really good at it now. Their eyes do sometimes bug out, but I can, you know, I'm like, it's our question.
SPEAKER_02Right. Yeah, you just a quick reminder of I see it too, but we will talk about this in a moment. Let's keep it, keep it to ourselves. What a great, great, a great example of empathy, too, of just stopping yourself, like that, that stopping yourself of wanting to say something, thinking about how the other person will feel, and then having a safe space, you know, to do it in in an appropriate time.
SPEAKER_00Sure, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I love that. I think that's such a great thing that all parents can can take away and and use right now as a way of helping their kids um keep that open conversation. I love that. Um, okay. Can we please talk about okay because I giggled at one of your parts of your book when you were talking about um history and how you learned it and it's all regurgitating facts, right? It's memorization and how when you were done with your last class, you're like, I'm done with history. Woo-hoo! I love that part because that's what I did too. I was an excellent memorizer. Do I remember anything? No, absolutely not. I don't remember anything. But now as an adult and I'm learning more, you know, I'm I'm frustrated that I didn't learn it correctly. Um, but on the flip side, I get to walk alongside my kids and kind of learn this honest history now. And so um I liked when you said now, but well, what my point was, it's still daunting to me to go back and learn history the correct way and teach history correctly to my children. Um, but what you said, you said I decided to approach history simply as an opportunity to know people. And that just like set my heart free of oh, how it seems so much more simple now to think of it in that respect. So could you speak a little bit to that? And how you approach history in your home.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, definitely. I mean, the thing is, there's so much to learn, right? And when you are coming from our position of feeling like we walked away from school without much there. So we're kind of starting from scratch. Um, I I I don't want to focus just on like dates and rote memorization, battles, generals, dates. That's what I got. And that's why I hated history. But when I started reading good books with my children, biographies, even historical fiction, and really great narratives on different aspects of history, I noticed that the things that we all loved the most, the things that my children remembered were the stories about people, not so much about what they were doing, but about who they were. And yes, that includes what they're doing. But when we think of the person themselves, rather than um the battle of such and such, such and such, and this was the most important aspect in the army on this side and the military on that side, unless you have a kid that's really into that. The rest of us are just like, wow, wow, wow. But if you talk about the life of one of the people they're fighting, and perhaps, you know, him and and then his wife, and if we can see a letter that that's been preserved between the two of them, or you know, my daughter's reading a book now about a woman who dressed like a man so that she could fight for her country. And, you know, just um those types of stories, like we can't forget them. And then that helps us to frame the war or the battle or whatever thing people were fighting for. Um, and so uh I think I started that because that's what was interesting and that's what it was memorable. And and the more I started thinking about it, I was like, this is how I think my family should enter into the story of history. It also leaves you room to study people who that we don't admire, you know, and be able to take away from their story something. No one's just completely all evil. Um, there are things that were admirable about even the worst people that we can think of. And we can say, like, wow, okay, I see how this person did a great job at this, but here's where they failed and the destruction that they caused. And so by studying the people, we were able to have these discussions about um people not being like superheroes. They're not all good or all bad. This is not Batman and Joker, but in real life, we're all a combination of those two things.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. And it's so much more interesting when you can um read it outside of a textbook. And I think you coined a different phrase of life-giving books, yeah. Correct?
SPEAKER_00Could you tell us what that means? Well, um, you know, we have living books that a lot of us talk about in homeschool world, as particularly Charlotte Mason homeschoolers, but even outside of that, are these books with great ideas where these ideas are coming alive, they're written um in a way that can communicate these ideas usually in a more engaging manner. Um, often they do have, you know, beautiful vocabulary and sentence structure, though that's not necessarily an absolute requirement. Um, and so I started finding um some diverse books, which I hadn't really seen on a lot of these living book lists that I felt um embodied a lot of that, these ideas. And and so some people were like, that's not a living book, and this has to be this and that. And I was like, oh wow, I disagree. Um Charlotte Mason said a living book could be short or long, it could be old or new. She gave a whole bunch of description and she said it really is the part of us to really work that out as to what is living and not living. But I don't like to argue. So I said, okay, well, if these beautiful books that are full of ideas that my children need and that I believe other children could grow from, if you feel that they're not living books, I'll let you have that term and I'm gonna coin a different term. And then they are life-giving books because these are the books that are giving my family life. Um, and that allowed, and so basically it's like living books, but with more freedom to not be beholden to a definition that someone else came up with.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I love that. Do you have any favorites that you're using right now as life-giving books in your home?
SPEAKER_00Oh, wow. Um, well, we one that I always recommend because it changed my literary life is um a classic, right? Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry, um by Mildred D. Taylor. And, you know, my family, we've read that entire series. And I I say that whenever I get a chance because that book is on a lot of um books that are a lot of lists up for banned books right now in our country. And so I like want to do the opposite and say when I read that book as a child, it helped me understand so much that had gone unsaid, things that I didn't understand or that no one was telling me about. And I cried and I laughed. And most of all, I feel like I walked away on the other side with the idea that I am like looking, I'm on the lookout constantly for more books that make me feel that way. It like set the bar in my literary life. Um, and so that's one that I definitely think, you know, kind of takes the cake.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that's I'll look that one up. I haven't read it yet. Um, but you talk a lot about too, if we're on the topic of books, um curating a colorful library. And I could talk for days about children's literature and books. Um, but I love the way that you kind of painted the picture of um having mirrors and windows um for your children. Could you speak to that a little bit about what that means to have a mirror in literature and a window in literature for kids?
SPEAKER_00Sure. So a mirror is a book where children can see themselves and their families and communities reflected back to them, where they can say, someone cares enough about me, my people, or the way that I am, or whatever aspect of my personhood that I feel would, you know, that I really want to see. Um, someone thought enough of it to val and valued it enough to write about it. And I recognize myself in that writing. And there's something about that that allows a child to feel that they have this sense of belonging, right? A place to belong, the name of my book. So that that they're not always visitors in someone else's literary world, but that they can place themselves in some of these stories too. And sure, kids need to use their imagination, right? Everything in the world is not going to be all about you. It's like you're not, you're not in this book. Good. You know, like too bad. Sure, there has to be a degree of that, but we can't ask children to never experience what life would be like to find themselves lost, naturally lost, without having to imagine every aspect on every page of a book. And we also can't ask the same children to always be the ones using their imaginations while others are so easily found, you know, are so easily able to find themselves in the book. So um that's kind of the idea of a mirror and a window being um a book where our children, books where our children can learn about others and how they live and how they see life. And um, those are just equally as important uh because that's kind of in the real world, we would have relationships with all different types of people, right? Close relationships where we get to know things about them and all, but that's typically not as realistic for a lot of us, just based off of geography for one. Um and so through their books, they can get an idea of how other people experience life, how they process information, and how different some aspects are, and how similar other aspects are. And so some of those similarities, you know, you you can read about people from another country or another part of our your own country or across town and see a grandmother's love or how a family comes together over a table of food, how music plays into people's memories and song can elicit memories through generations. I mean, there are these these kind of ideas that tie us all together that our children also pick up in windows that are just as important as the differences.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. And it's important that we as families find those books and have a nice balance of diversity on our shelves so that they can see, you know, the commonalities between all of us. What's your thought on um the diversity of children's literature? I know that like there's there's so much more that can be done, but how do you feel about where we've where we kind of started, at least from when I started paying attention um until now about the world of children's literature?
SPEAKER_00We're we've come a long way. Um things were so incredibly broken that we still have quite a long way to go, but progress has been great, particularly in picture books. Um, that's where I've seen the most progress and where it used to be really difficult and rare like to go to a major bookseller or even just a regular store, Costco, Target, Walmart. I mean, I never used to find diverse books and places like that. I didn't even, I was like, I don't even expect it. And now I everywhere I go, you know, I see some titles, some more than others. And and then definitely in our local bookstores and Barnes and Noble will have like an entire shelves and tables, and and I love that. So I see um the most growth in picture books. I see the next um biggest area in that middle grade, kind of tween young middle school. That area is growing. Um, I'm seeing more and more some fantasy books, some adventure books in that area. Um, where I see us lacking, and I'm particularly uh sensitive to this because I have a child who's about to be 13. Um, and those kind of young adult books, um, we have not come all the way there. What we're doing in a lot of ways, what the publishing world has done is skipped over as they have these beautiful picture books and these nice growing collections of middle grade books. And then for young adult, it gets real gritty. Um, inner city, gang violence, police shootings, um, sex, drugs, you know, like, and I'm like, wait a minute, you know, like these are kids that are growing up with these beautiful stories and these living and life-giving books. And and so then they turned 13 and 14, and now the entire diverse landscape is all about like urban strife. And those books are important, you know. I'm not, don't get me wrong, but I'm like, where's where's the fantasy? Where are the coming of age stories? Um, where are um the where's the other side of of these people groups? And um, so I I see a gap and a hole there, as particularly as a mother, as I keep pre-reading these books and I'm tossing them to the side, like, nope. Not this one. Nope. You know, I'm still waiting here, girl. Go read this book again while I'm waiting, you know, trying to get something else going for you. So um we still have, you know, we still have a lot of work to do, but um I am happy with what what's been done so far.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, especially at that age too, you want them reading that good quality, reflective um literature that they can they can aspire to or they can um see themselves doing them, you know, and make connections with. And yeah, there's a balance that needs to happen.
SPEAKER_00For sure.
SPEAKER_02For sure. Do you have any advice for families curating their libraries right now?
SPEAKER_00Wow, I would say um to don't get stuck in evaluating each book on its own merit alone. Like this is the best of autobiography. This is the best of this. This book is so good. It's award-winning, and this book is good, and that book is great, and this book is good, but to step back a little bit and evaluate your entire bookshelf. Like you could have a bookshelf full of individually great books, but your shelf as a whole could be kind of trash because they're all along the same lines. And that's kind of where I was years ago. I had the best of the best. If you want to look at each individual book, but when I stepped back and look at my shelf, it completely lacked diversity. And that's ethnic diversity. It lacked diversity in terms of um disability, books about people with disabilities, books about people in other countries, even that are, you know, have similar backgrounds, ethnic ethnicities as me, but in different countries, different languages, people, socioeconomic diversity. I mean, the whole thing. Both most of my bookshelf were these Heidi, the little secret garden, the little princess. You know, I have my oldest are two girls. And those are all great books, but they're it's not good to have um just all kind of the same thing over and over and on repeat. So I ended up scooting those books over literally and making room to add to them, not take them away, but to add to them so that we can have a more beautiful bookshelf.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I love that too, that you're not taking them away because there's nothing necessarily wrong with them, but you're adding, right, to create more room for other types and cultures and religions and um diversity on your bookshelf. And it's true, you talked a lot about um or a little bit about one-sided story and how you need to come from the perspective of getting multiple perspectives that we can't all just be linear and learn one side of it. We have to include all these voices and colors and abilities um in our kids' lives.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. I mean, because like I said, a lot of times they aren't having the opportunity to meet a lot of this variety of people in real life. I mean, we can try, right? I try, I do my best, but they can meet so many more people through their books. And that layered on with the work that we're doing in our real world relationships, um, just leads to an expansiveness. And I guess, like to me, that's one of the words I use to describe my book. Like, my book is about expanding, expanding the way we look at things, expanding our bookshelves, expanding. It's not about deleting and canceling, which is another aspect of what's happening in our culture right now. It's like all, you know, both sides are arguing, this is bad, take it out. This is bad, take it out. And I'm kind of like, you know, really, you're both right and you're both wrong. They're definitely, we need to um, we need to remove some of the like old classics. Um, and some of them are just not appropriate anymore. But most of the ones that I think we need to remove, it's not because they're bad, it's because we need to make more room and our children can only read so many things. So sometimes I'll make suggestions to schools who will um have me come to work with their curriculum. And I'm like, okay, these four books, I like these books. I read these books, I read these books to my kids, but you're telling me that you can only have this number of books, right? Then we have to take some of these away in order to make room for what we know is right. And to me, that's more of the discussion. It needs to be this discussion coming from an idea of expansiveness rather than coming from an idea of um just destroying everything that was and saying that it's all awful and and and everything new has to take its place. That's usually never the answer when we do things so absolutely. Um, but it's much more nuanced than that.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. And keeping an open mind too, and having the others as an option, but these are the ones we're going to focus on and making space for the ones that we want to focus on. Um, yeah, I like what you said about cancel culture and and how, oh, that was bad. Okay, take it up. Well, now we have to start from scratch. Let's let's use what we have, curate what we have and and add to it and keep that expansive mindset open. Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00And I think also for certain classrooms and and and definitely homeschools, some books are totally fine if they're going to be, if there's going to be an accompanied discussion, right? Like they're they're books, like they're they're problematic. I would never send here, take this and go off to your bedroom and read it. You know what I mean? Like that could be harmful because we now know more and we have better information about, you know, what we should, the ideas our children should be taking away and what's going to make for a healthy person living in a vibrant and diverse America in 2022. But um, if we're willing to dig in and have these conversations, or if a teacher is equipped and has the time in the classroom to really help our children frame some of what they're reading, I mean, in a lot of ways, they can grow even from things that we consider to be problematic.
SPEAKER_02Right. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And keeping, yeah, I agree. Um, you you've talked a lot about um getting to know diverse cultures and learning about people. And um, and when you learn about history, you you get to know the actual families or the person behind it. And through that, you have started traveling and doing some world schooling, which another topic I could talk about for hours and hours and hours. And um but what does it mean to you as a world schooler to become a global citizen and um help your children navigate this world by meeting the people that live in it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think for my husband and I, it's really about um, or my husband and me, uh, there I go with my homeschooling. Um, I think it's really about helping our children to see that you can love your country and also still love and appreciate other people that are not from here. And I I don't want them to feel negatively about either. Like I want you to feel good about home, right? Who shouldn't feel good about home? But just like this is your home, other people have a home and they feel good about their home. And wouldn't it be wonderful if we could get to know, you know, the things that they love most? And that's kind of how you get to know a person, how you value a person. Um, it's like with some of my closest friends, you know, I do things sometimes that I don't want to do because I love my friends and I want them to know that when I love you, I'm gonna I want to enter into your world. So you want to go horseback riding? Girl, the last time I did that, my thighs were burning for like four days, but it's our birthday. And if you want to go horseback riding, let's do it, you know? Right. Or like, yeah, let's go to the restaurant that you love the most. Because not because I love the food here, but because I love you. And so I kind of want my children to experience that, but on a broader global basis. Um, in addition, with the traveling for my family in particular, because we are black, it was really important to us for my children to see that the situation in America isn't personal. I never want them to grow up feeling like there's it's them. It's like you specifically, Nina. That's my oldest name. No, it's not you specifically. No matter where we travel in this world, there are people at odds, people struggling to deal with what their ancestors have left for them, the turmoil, the hatred or the um the divisiveness and all of those things. And in America, it happens to be very black and white, but in the other places we travel, it's not at all. It's totally different groups of people. And that's been a huge lesson for my kids. Like, see, look at here. In a lot of countries, also, you can't even tell the difference between the two warring sides. I don't, they look the same, they have the same culture, music, background, you know, maybe they have different religions or they have these tribal differences or whatever it may be, that people will always find a reason to separate themselves. And so that's been just a beautiful lesson for my kids that they can come back home and realize that yeah, this this world has fallen and it's so imperfect, but this baby has nothing at all to do with you.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02With you specifically. Oh, I just it kind of frees up their heart to see the world a little bit differently um when they know that this is happening all over. It's not targeted, it's not um, yeah, specific to their one. Yeah, I think it breaks my heart though, just to think of kids who feel that way, you know.
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, I think you, you know, when you have that you experience these little slights repeatedly and and you, you know, you're wondering like what's going on, like why is this happening? Or, you know, the kids are small, they're like, I can't help how I was born, you know, like why why would anybody hold this against me, you know? But when they can hold their heads high and realize that it's the brokenness in another person that would cause that rather than the brokenness in themselves.
SPEAKER_02Um you say it so beautifully. You just have this way of bringing these concepts to light and to explain them and navigate them with your children. And I'm just in awe of your ability to do that. It's impressive. It's just impressive. Do you have some advice then? Um, you said you travel similarly to the way you learn history and that you get to know the people. So if a family wants to travel with their kids and get to know the people, what advice do you have?
SPEAKER_00Oh, this is good, fresh on my mind. We're leaving in about seven weeks for our next trip. And so yeah, like picking um, like as I look for where we're staying, I do a ton of research to make sure we're staying among the people, right? If you want to get to know people, you can't be off in the American. American hotel. You can't be staying in the Hilton, right? So staying in neighborhoods, I like to stay in neighborhoods that have a lot of living right outside the door. So we're going to the same markets all the time, or, you know, even when we're going to larger markets, after we get our bearing, my kids and I will go to the same stalls each day or each every other day when we need to get our fruits and vegetables as so we can be known and we can know people. So that's one thing. And being careful to balance, you know, this sightseeing touristy stuff. Sure, we do some of that, you know. When you go to Paris, you do go to the Eiffel Tower in the Louvre. It's silly not to, but you want to be careful that you're just not out there doing that stuff all day, every day, because that's not where the people are, right? That's where the other tourists are. And so you need to spend time at the local park in the in the town square and sitting at a little cafe outside, going to the local bookshop or um letting the kids linger over a game of soccer, you know, and um to jump in and have a pickup game while I sit there and eat ice cream with my little one or whatever. So I guess um it's a slowing down versus the typical pace of life in America, even for my own family. It's just really intentional slowing down and savoring um the simple pleasures of like walking around town, walking around the block, speaking to people, and you know, not being um so caught up in how you look or how you sound, because we do try our best to speak the local language. And that's really hard because I know I sound horrible. I know it's broken. Um, I know that I'm not conjugating verbs right. I know that I'm not pronouncing things correctly, but I do try and I try really hard. And I found that it endears people. Like they, they, they love you because they see like, well, this woman's willing to totally make a fool of herself, but she is really trying and wants to engage with us. So those are things.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and putting in the effort um to be part of that group, to be part of that culture because you care, because you want to learn, because you want to get to know them. Um, and I think people see that. And it's a good reminder to do it messy. It's okay if you don't have perfect Spanish or whatever language you're trying to speak. And you talked about um how play is a universal language for kids. So if you're traveling with kids, they can usually pick up and play, whether they can speak to each other or not.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah. It doesn't, I found it doesn't impact their play at all, which is like, I feel like I need a like a sociologist or anthropologist or something to travel with me to help explain what I'm seeing. So I don't have the science behind it. I can only say what I've what I've experienced. And that is that children apparently don't care if they speak the same language or not. They each will talk in their own language and yet they understand. They use, you know, hands, you know, a lot of hands, and I can't even explain it, but they're they'll have a whole imaginative play thing. And I don't mean for 10 minutes, they can spend the whole day playing together, especially sports. Like soccer is like a great equalizer in much of the world. And, you know, if you're willing to get out there on the field and kick the ball around, they don't care what language you speak. Um, so it's not until you start getting older, right? It's the adults we start becoming um feeling like really conscientious, or I can't think of the word, but self-conscious. Yeah, self-conscious about our language abilities or lack thereof. And so then we default to always speaking in English. And um it's just a bit disrespectful to enter into someone's world and then insist on doing it your way. So we try to um, we can't completely, because I can't afford to buy all new wardrobes for the whole family when we travel, but we do try to take on the ideas behind even the local dress. So if the local women dress more dress more modestly than what we do here, um we do. Maybe they don't have bare shoulders in a spaghetti strap or in a tank top or something like that. Like we will try to mimic um what is culturally appropriate um for their community, just again, to make sure that we're honoring their way of life. Um, because that's kind of the whole point of us being whole point. Yeah. So it's really exciting. I think, you know, if people are interested in doing that that way, it also makes travel much less expensive if you're not living in fancy places, not having a rental car and not eating out all the time and all that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's true. Yeah, that makes sense to be able to save a little bit of money by kind of immersing yourself in daily life instead of something that seems a little more extravagant.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02What about those families that uh maybe aren't able to travel abroad or want to do stick close to home or maybe do day trips or stuff um along those lines? What advice do you have for them?
SPEAKER_00Oh, I think that's the the case for my family most of the time, right? We take these trips in between, but most of the time we're just here at home. And and I think that there's great, there, there are great number of things you can do in terms of the films that you watch. Like there's this movie, uh, it's called, it's a Disney movie. It's called The Queen of Kate. It's not a cartoon. It's a, you know, but example of that. She was a chess player and um she lived, I can't remember what country, in Africa. And she became this like amazing chess player and all that. And there's music in it. Um, you know, there's like I'm laughing because my whole family sings this song. There's a song in there about um salt. Um sing it for us. It's a number one spice. Put some flavor on your rice. It's a number one spice. So I was nothing like that. But we all are like walking around singing the number one spice. Like if my kids feel like my dinner doesn't have enough you know, salt on it, they're like, Can I get some number one spies? Um, and so just like little fun movies like that, just to open their eyes to a different place and time. Um uh obviously we already talked about the the books, but also even um these little subscription boxes where the kids each month get a box focused on a different country and stuff. I know some people think those things are silly, but I have seen my kids get really into it. Like they have their little passport and they're like sticking their sticker on each month and they're reading a letter and learning about it, and they'll have some little trinket. And if I didn't see them really getting into it, I also would be rolling my eyes like, oh gosh, just a waste of money. But that's not what I see. I see them engaging in it. Um, YouTube videos, you know, I mean, I've shown my children the world through videos and some of those places we've had the opportunity to go in person. And is it the same on the video? No, the video doesn't even come close to the full experience, but it's it takes us a long way, right? It gives us an idea, a flavor for what's happening. And I don't just do it for other countries, even within the United States, our country is huge. Right. So when I want to show my kids like Arizona, the Arizona desert is completely different than where we are in Georgia, or if I want to show them Manhattan, where they've never been, you know. So um, yeah, videos and recipes like food, cooking, we have a lot of global cookbooks like from different countries, and we'll like cook the food ourselves. And we go to local restaurants a lot too with um different types of food, but um we just don't have the budget to do that all the time. So mostly we cook them at home and um, you know, being open to relationships with people and different things, also dress like my family and I, our next trip is to Ghana, and we've been wearing clothes from Ghana, like leading up to it, like just enjoying the beauty of their textiles and how their clothing fits us, and and not just like as a costume, right? Like we're like dressing and going out of the house. I did a speaking engagement in a beautiful skirt from Ghana a few months ago. So um I think like those types of ideas of just really embodying these this idea of um people in place, yeah, and and incorporating it into whatever you're doing at home.
SPEAKER_02You have a beautiful way of just inviting your children along to be a citizen of this world and get to know the people and the places. And I think what a beautiful way to grow their hearts and to grow empathy and to help them know that we are here together, that we all have our similarities and differences, and that, you know, we we can do this together if you give time to get to know people at their core, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, that's what it's really about, you know. And and when you think of it that way, it makes this assignment not be so daunting, right? Because I'm I'm I'm not a historian. I'm not gonna know all the things. I cannot teach you all of that. I can't, I can't even show you the whole world, right? I can only show you little tiny bits and pieces of it. But um, I can just enter into this type of living with you. And that's what my book is about. It's a guide for families that want to enter into this type of living in a realistic way, like from throughout all of childhood, not as like an assignment or a lesson plan or or a unit study, but just as a way of life.
SPEAKER_02Yes, and it's something that I think families can go back to again and again because it's not you simplify it to a to a place where it's just beautiful and seems doable, and something that's not overwhelming, it's not daunting, it's not astronomical or super expensive. These little steps that you can take in your daily life to help your kids become familiar with the different people and places. And it's just so needed right now. And I'm so grateful that you this was placed on your heart and you took the time because I know writing a book is not an easy task. So much, much, much gratefulness to you because it's just a beautiful book and a beautiful guide.
SPEAKER_00Oh, thank you so much. Thanks for taking the time to read it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, of course. And it it'll be next to me. I'm gonna go back. I have so many highlights and like earmarked pages and things I want to try. And in fact, one of them we, as we were talking about um, you know, getting to know the people and places in my we I do wild and free. I'm part of a wild and free group. And when I was reading about nature and getting to know the places that you play, that one really resonated with me. And I reached out to my group. I'm like, oh my gosh, we why didn't we think of this? Like, let's let's do a little research about the places and spaces that we're playing, you know, and teach the kids a little bit the history of the land and um just get to know the places that we are living in right now. I loved that idea.
SPEAKER_00I'm so glad that connected with you because that was a huge aha moment for me. It's like one of those little things where, you know, we're busy moms. I cannot just like do all this crazy stuff. But I was like, we go here all the time. Like we've been going here all the time for years. And I've never even took the time to figure out like, what is this place all about? And um, it's just been really amazing. And my kids love to share with other people. Like when we invite friends to come along or whatever, like they're like, you know, hey, this used to be an old mill, and you can see this little part right here is where the run was, and you know, all of that. And it shows me that they have a connection to the places where we are playing and it gives us an extra level of respect for um for the land that we're, you know, frolicking on. Yeah, yeah, that's what I was thinking.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I was thinking that too, a respect and kind of um a responsibility to that place to to protect it and um pass along its legacy and keep it there for others to enjoy in the future.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_02I just love that. And something that I'm going to really look into. Now I'm thinking about all the places that we go and oh yeah, there is like there's one with a monastery on it. Well, when did that start? I need to know all about that, you know? Who lived here before? And um, it seems like such a simple concept, but it would have a big impact.
SPEAKER_00For sure.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um, okay, this is this is the line that did it for me in your book. You said, successfully launching a socially and culturally conscious change maker is not the cherry on top, it's the whole point. I was like, that's it. It's the whole point. Yeah, the whole point is to raise our kids to know and love the people here so that we can help make a difference and help change for the beautiful.
SPEAKER_00I think so. I mean, like, and and I think when we're trying to give our children vision for life, like, yes, it impacts what you're gonna do after high school or what career you pursue or where you live, like all of those things are important, but really the whole kind of theme of life is engaging, right? It's engaging and you're a part of this like tapestry and you're only here for this moment of time. And um, it shouldn't, as you're moving through life, shouldn't all be just about you because you are intertwined with other people, whether you like it or not. And we can all see, especially as adults, those people we see them on TV, we see them sounding off in social media, those people who are only thinking about themselves, right? And we don't usually like those people. Like we don't like being around them. You know what I mean? They're not like it's like that's not really the people, those aren't the people that you really think of when you think of I want to build a community with somebody. Um, and so you know, how do we raise our children to um definitely um have value, feel valuable? They are valuable people. I don't I don't want my kids to feel that they're not valuable. You are very valuable. Um, and at the same time, I hate to break it to you, but you're no more valuable than someone else. And I need you to walk through life knowing that.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Absolutely. Again, beautifully said. I highly encourage anyone listening, go get this book, a place to belong. Seriously, you need it on your bookshelf. So please tell everyone where we can find you, where's the best place to get all the good information and what do you have going on?
SPEAKER_00Sure, I have tons of book recommendations and resources and lesson guides and all that on my website at heritagemom.com. And you can find me on Instagram or Facebook at heritagemblog. Um, and that's those are the places I I write for wild and free. You brought up wild and free. So you'll see me in the monthly wild and free bundles and at conferences all across the country. So I hope I get to meet some of your listeners soon.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I highly encourage everyone go follow Amber right now. Amber, you are absolutely a doll. I just have had so much fun chatting with you and learning from you. And I hope that I get to continue this and um to keep learning from you. Thank you for being so kind and generous with your heart. Um you are special.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_02Oh my goodness. I just love her. I hope you really enjoyed that conversation. Please go give her some love. Find her on Instagram, follow her along. You can join her newsletter, um, grab your own copy of A Place to Belong, and please consider leaving her a kind review. We can help others find this book, and together we can continue to really help root our kids in their own culture and give them a chance to know and love others with their whole heart. So thank you for listening. Thank you for raising your humans to be kind. And always remember you can join my newsletter too on teamkindhumans.com, and I will send you lots of good information. So head over teamkindhumans.com, sign up for the newsletter, and I'll see you there.