Welcome to the Hope Unlock Podcast. I'm your host, Kristen Kurtz, and I'm also the founder of New Wings Coaching. I help and empower wild-hearted and adventurous women of faith feeling caged and stuck, unlock their true purpose and potential, break free from limitations, and thrive with confidence, courage, and hope. If you're curious to learn more about coaching with me, head to NewWinksCoaching.net and be sure to explore the show notes for ways to connect with me further. Get ready to dive in as we uncover empowering keys and insights in this episode. So tune in and let's unlock hope together. Welcome to the Hope Unlocked podcast. I'm Kristen Kurtz, your host. I pray this episode is like a holy IV of hope for your soul. Please help me welcome Matt Fledger to the show. So excited to have him here today. Um, he's actually experiencing tomorrow, and I am experiencing his yesterday. If you're confused, it's because he is an Australian. I'm here in the US. I'm very excited for him to share more about himself and his story and and what he's up to these days. But before we get into that, could you tell us just a little bit about yourself?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, sure. Christian, it's an honor to be on your podcast today. And yeah, it's funny. We're in uh uh Australia, so we're in we're in your tomorrow, I guess. So just the the time, the time difference. Uh it's good, it's a sunny day. Yeah, it's a blue sky. So just want to bless that on all your listeners that that are just knowing that tomorrow is a uh is gonna be better than today.
SPEAKER_00It'll work about tomorrow.
SPEAKER_04That's right. Yeah, sounds like a song. Uh so uh a little bit about
me. So I'm a family man, uh beautiful wife, Joanna, and we have three wonderful children. Uh, oldest is 16 and uh 13, going on 30. She's our teenage middle child. She's wonderful, and our youngest is nine, and she wants to stay nine for as long as possible. So she's told me she doesn't want to grow up. I'm like, no, no, that's time to grow up, and that's okay. So just there comes the time. So we're just enjoying being being family. I've been an entrepreneur most of most of my life, and uh uh background is has been in business, worked on the family farm. We had Banana Farm uh in uh so we I live in far north Queensland or far north Australia, which is if most if your listeners are in America, uh it's the opposite for where uh you are. It's our north is really hot, and our south is really cold, so everything's upside down here being down under. Um, so yeah, we had banana farm, sugarcane, grew up there, always uh grew up in the house of the Lord. Was uh I remember being saved when I was five and filled with the Holy Spirit and walking with with Holy Spirits ever since and being in followed on from the family uh business, not doing farming though, but doing property development. Okay, and uh doing land subdivisions mainly, so buying greenfield land and cutting it up into uh other smaller blocks so can create communities that way. Uh so been doing that for a while, as well as uh having some radical encounters with God and in dealing with some things in our hearts and and our minds and seeing God just uh unpack how the world does business and how I think a good Christian should operate business uh to knowing how to how to operate
the way God wants us to walk in uh business space. So, in that process, um, learning to hear God's voice very intimately, and then even wrote a book called How to Hear God at Work. Um, and it came from a very, very troubling time in our business because I had to, I guess, I guess I'm a guy, so some most guys I guess got to learn it, learn it the hard way, otherwise they're not learning it. So experience, experiential power. Experience. Yeah, that's right. So I had to learn, I guess, hearing God's voice the hard way. And uh in the world.
SPEAKER_00Would you tell us a little bit about that? That even could you go a little bit deeper on that? Because somebody you know might be wondering what what did that look like for you to experience that moment or yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, there's a lot of moments all wrapped up. So I'll be I guess I'll give you the the Hollywood version, the highlight reel, um, to give a bit of a summary there. But um in our property development is can be quite intense. Um, particularly there's a lot of you know, it can be a lot of money on the line. And I guess growing up in in Christian home and and business and doing doing all that, you you can kind of get a uh bit of a wrong mentality when it comes to who who God is. And I guess I grew up with a bit of a um a view that God, if things were going well, God was pleased with me. Uh, you know, I'm experiencing his blessings, but if things aren't going well, um in business that translates to you know lack of cash flow, uh, lack of profit, or you know, just struggle, you know, you're fighting this battle and that battle, and you feel like, where is God? You know, what I feel like maybe things aren't going well because God's punishing me. Um, and that was kind of my mindset. And then uh we had done a we we'd launched into doing a quite a sizable development. We had partners come in with us, and we'd we'd gone, we'd started this process, but it was at a time in the market that uh the banks just weren't lending to property developers. They and usually you would buy the land, you'd go to the bank to get us get the construction funding, so you can build everything you need to build, you sell it, and then move on. So you're not getting paid until the very, very end. So you're putting all this time and investment in to make it happen. So uh, and then hopefully you're gonna get paid at the end of the day when you sell all the blocks. So the middle part is getting the the bank to agree to funding you, and that was our problem. We we had the land, we had the uh all the approvals in place, but the bank would not lend us, and we shopped around to every uh Tom, Mick, and Harry to try and find, hey, how can we make this happen? And in that process of because you still got to spend all the money to keep it keep things afloat, and we had run out of money. All our partners had invested all their funds in, and we just we didn't didn't have anything left. And it got to a
this was around uh 2013.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_04Um, oh actually no, 20 2012, 2012, early 2012. And it was uh yeah, we got the call from um our accounts and said, hey, uh we're short for grand this four thousand dollars for this month. Um, where are we gonna find it? And we had Rob Peter to pay Paul, you know, moving money around and take money out of the credit card and move money from from this place and the partners are like, oh, we'll just you know, call up the partners like no, we we we got nothing, things are tight for us too, we can't put anything more in. So I was just gripped with fear, and uh I I went we had a two-story home and went down where the kids were um one of their bedrooms and just laid out on the floor and just cried out to God and said, God, how are we gonna do this? How are we gonna make this uh happen? Uh this is this is like you know, it could have been four million dollars for I could have known it's just the the fear that was gripping me. And uh it wasn't long in that prayer, uh just saying, God, help, help. And uh with it was literally within five minutes. Uh I I just it's like his voice came as a just that gentle just voice of reason, I guess. And it was like came from, if I could describe it, was was from kind of like behind me and was uh to to my right, it's sort of behind me. It was like a thought that came to my mind that said, check your tax. There was a certain tax that uh we pay before we start construction, it's just like a state tax, and it's called Q leave. Uh there's a type of long service portable leave. And it's it just was just a phrase, just check your Q leave, check this tax. I'm like, what's got to do with anything? You know, and I was just you know, trying to get away from me distractions, you know. It's like I'm locked in and focused, I need the air. And that that kept getting louder and louder. It was like, you know, it's like I can't let this go. Um and I'm like, oh, okay, hang on. So uh I went upstairs, opened up my laptop, uh, checked the calculations that I'd done, and we had done and paid this tax probably 12 months prior.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_04Um and you're not allowed to get your like building approvals until you pay this pre-tax. So we got our approvals, and we you know, paid that. You show a receipt to the council and they give you that that uh approval document. And I looked through the numbers at what we had calculated back then, and I'm like, wow, we really didn't know how much this constructions were going to be. We we overestimated it a lot. Um so because it's based on how much the construction value is. So I'm like, wow, okay. And I recalculated it, and the difference what I'd overpaid was about a bit over four thousand dollars.
SPEAKER_00Like right on the money.
SPEAKER_04A little bit over was four thousand four hundred. Yeah, yeah. So it was just a little bit over. I'm like, hang on. God, is this this this must be you? And I okay. So I I called up the department and it it only just opened. So it was not probably nine, maybe nine thirty in the morning. Uh so I called that number they had it's um government department. So and I called it, and someone answered it literally straight away. Like, didn't even ring. It was like dialed it, and the ladies like hello, but didn't even answer, like, hello, this is Q-Leave Breach Department, and there's no recorded message, there was no nothing, it was just straight through. And I'm like, um, hello, is this is this Q Leave? And she's like, Yeah, yeah, it is, yeah. So sorry, um, it's just um uh I just grabbed the phone as I was walked in the door, and I'm like, Oh, okay. Um well, she says, How can I help you? So I explained the situation, like you know, overcalculated. She says, Oh, oh, that's fine. Just send that uh another blank form with the new new figures you've got, um, and uh I'll re refund you the difference. I said, Oh, great. Oh, well, okay, well, how long does that take? You know, I'm thinking two weeks, maybe maybe a month, being a government department. She goes, I'm the one that does the pay runs, and I've got this, I've got to do get all these pay runs done today. So if you can get it to me within the next half hour by ten o'clock, I'll make sure it's in today's pay run.
SPEAKER_01Stop it.
SPEAKER_04I'm like, you're joking. I'm like, okay, I'll get it to you now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you're like, I'll get that to you in like two minutes, thank you.
SPEAKER_04That's right, that's right. Yeah, two seconds, you know. I've got it ready to go. And uh it was amazing. I was like, wow, you know, that God, that just that was just amazing. And and that just opened opened up a whole different realm on how how to do business with God and how to walk instead with Him.
SPEAKER_00Such a powerful testimonial, like because prior to that in business, how long ahead you've been in your own business prior
to that? How long had you been on?
SPEAKER_04At that at that time, uh it would be that uh that that was about eight years doing. Oh, eight years. Okay, so in this property development, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Eight years, you know, prior, like what did that look like for you to um, you know, walk in tandem with the Lord in business?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so I you know, going back to that mindset of, you know, I I I was quite you know, looking back, I was quite religious, you know. So I read a religiously or dutifully, probably a better word, uh, reading my Bible every day. I was on the Bible reading plan, uh, you know, the um praying, it might look half an hour or an hour each morning. Um, yeah, just just doing those those good things, going to church every Sunday. I was even on the board with our uh church. Um, so doing all the even giving up my time, my treasure, talent, tithing, doing all those good Christian things, um, but still struggling on the inside, uh, just with am I enough? Am I good enough? You know, um, and you know, be moments of you know, during church service, you know, went to a Pentecostal church, so there'd be, you know, great moments of worship that you know, like, oh wow, and you'd kind of get glimpses of God's voice and you'd say these things, and it's like, oh, that's cool. Um, but I guess I was probably more principle led uh before that. So I was like, uh, you know, I do the right thing because and for the right reasons, and I was constantly checking, okay, am I am I doing this deal right? Are they are they gonna are they winning out of this as much as I'm winning? Uh is there a win-win here? Um, are we being respectful to our customers? Are we you know being honourable with you know, you know, just doing the right thing for the right reasons? And we're so consumed with that. Um it's just exhausting. It was uh I was you know, when things, you know, and the thought was, well, things aren't going well with this property development. So you can't our mindset was more, well, if things aren't going well, where's the sin? Where who's done wrong? You know, and we'd even like call all the partners together and go, Where have you sinned? Yeah, because God's not blessing us, so surely there's sin in the camp somewhere, and you know, we just had so much of that old testament, you know, view of of God and and how that translated into business. And and yeah, it was it was kind of like oh thank I'm looking back at that time, like, wow, God, thank you for your grace and mercy. Yeah, thank you for helping us through all that. Um, but yeah, that's that's what it was like. So it was the you know, constantly uh looking for the next best strategy or the tactic to use, or you know, particularly when you're looking at marketing, uh you're going, Oh, that's what they're doing. Okay, well, uh that's that sounds cool. Let's let's do that. So you're constantly in that comparison, you're looking at keeping up with the Joneses, as we'd say. It's like, oh, what are they doing? What are they doing? And uh and and then trying to adapt and do the best you can rather than going, God, what do you say?
SPEAKER_03Exactly.
SPEAKER_04What do you say about this? And just didn't have that openness to go, does God really care about business? You know, like you know, because you kind of feel like when you go to uh church or being in you know around uh uh other Christians, it's like it was it was difficult for to connect or find common ground with other business people, um you know, because they're like, oh, you know, going through some stuff, but that doesn't matter, you know. That's you know, pastor doesn't really understand, or we'll just you know suffer in silence, I guess, um, and just keep going. So I guess uh looking back, I'm like, wow, there was just just unneeded shame or uh religious duty wrapped around it that it's like, gee, there's no way I could have measured up. Um and yeah, for God just to come into that moment, even despite my mentality
of we're doing something wrong, God's punishing us, and to even him to then cut through that noise and say, Here's here's a tax bill that you overpaid, and I'm gonna get that refund for you really quickly. Yeah, like you can imagine, like God, God, you actually care about us.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_04You know, you care, you know. So that love that was like, God actually cares about my business. Well, I didn't, I just thought I just had to do all this for him. Yes, and he was actually no, I I want I want to be with you in this.
SPEAKER_00So that that moment changed everything. So I'm I'm imagining from that moment on, like, what did that look like for you to like in business? Um, what what happened? You you paid the bill, and then what happened?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, well, we still weren't out of the woods yet. Um, that just helped pay that monthly account, I guess. So we still hadn't got our funding together. Uh to, you know, so we still had the problem of, well, we don't have our funding God, so what do we do now? But then that created this dialogue of saying, Well, God, you actually care about our business. So what do I do? What what's what's the next step? Yeah, and there's what's called, I kind of describe it um as I guess faith pictures. Um it's a way of um uh uh I forget the scripture in verse where I can find it, but it just it it's it's a very obscure passage that Jesus talks about. Uh the kingdom of God is likened unto a seed that's planted into the ground. He said first the blade, he talks about wheat seeds, so first the blade, uh then the head, and then uh and when it's uh and and then when it's fully ripe, uh then the then the you know the the harvest is all the sickle's put in and it's harvested. Um so the seeds planted, the blade of or like the green shoot of hope, I call it, that that that ooh, something's happening, there's that hope staring again. Uh you know, it's that then then the then the head forward forms. So it's like the the wheat uh the fruit starts to form, but it's still green, you've got to let it ripen. And once it's ripe, so it's nice gone nice and brown, uh, then then it's harvest time, then you receive it. It's such an obscure scripture. Um, but it's the way the kingdom of God works when it comes to walking it out with him. Um, so I I I sort of liken it to if you can imagine the the seed, the blade, the the the foot, the the head, and then right. So that's like four four stages. Um so the the first one it was me going, okay, God, what does it look like? What does our property development look like? And it's just a big open field, green field. Like um, I think it's if I can do it in the old terms of acres, um, I think it was about 120 acres of land.
SPEAKER_00That's a lot of land.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, we had to put a road down the middle of it. Um, and so we're like, uh and there's not a tree on the site, like it's a big, big expanse of land. And I was praying, I was like, God, show me what what are we meant to do, you know? Oh, how how do we meant to partner with you in this? And I saw a picture of the first just in my just in my mind, um, and we have a redeemed imagination, so God speaks to us, he sort of filters through on the screen uh like a blank canvas, a blank screen, and on the screen of my imagination, I saw the the land, but I saw construction machinery working on it. So they were starting to build the road, and all and the colour of that machinery was all orange. Orange coloured machinery. I was just paying attention to that colour. I like and to me that meant, oh wow, God, you if the construction guys are on site, that means we've got our funding because we can pay them because we're not putting guys on site unless we've got the money, we just don't do that. Um I'm like, oh wow, that means we've got our funding. And we'd been talking to a few banks, but nothing was you know anything close to you know, even though just just talk. I'm like, oh okay, anyway, we kept going down the path of let's just get this thing right. It's just a few months later, and I felt that we'd gotten close to get some get some headway with some banks and very different options. And we got to one point and um I felt, oh, there's there might be a bit of a shift here. So I was praying again and saying, God, show me the land. And the picture changed. It's it changed to seeing the road uh was was finished. The road was done, all this like the the work had been completed. I'm like, oh that means that means it's it's done, like because that's that's finished, right? I'm like, okay, God, awesome, the road's done. And Anyway, at this time we'd be talking to some civil contractors, the guys with the machinery. And our engineer, who was also one of our partners in the business, said, Oh, I've got these guys that we've been working with. Why don't we go meet them? Let's see if we can come up with another way to get this project happening rather than waiting on the bank. Um, so they could come in and do a joint venture with us, they could get started. Once momentum happened, the bank would then kick in, pay them off, we'd keep moving. So, you know, this this happens sometimes in property development. Great idea. Went and sat with, went and met with the civil contractors, and yeah, talking away, and I'm just feeling, uh, I don't feel like this is right. I don't don't know if this is the right thing for us to do. And I just started I stood up and I was just looking around the the office we were in, and they had pictures of their machinery on the wall. They just had these framed pictures up on the wall of their machinery, and I I looked at them and and noticed all the colours, and they were all like blue and white. And and I just happened to look around and look at them all, and I'm like, hey, you got any got any orange ones? And they're like,
no, we don't actually, you know. I'm like, oh okay. And uh, oh okay, and I just sort of went, all right, you know, a little bit slumped my shoulders, a little bit disappointed. And the engineer noticed, so uh the and he's a Christian, he was in our group, and he's like, huh. So we got out to the car park, and he's like, What was that question? He said, I he says, I felt, he says, I felt like really strong about that question too. And he was like, Tell me more, what's going on, Matt? And I'm like, Well, I'm praying. And I kept seeing these pictures, and and this is the picture I saw was you know, orange cold machinery, and he's like, That's fascinating, you know, that's fascinating. He's like, just he's held it politely. Anyway, we we kept working, we're like, let's find another contract to see if we can do the same thing. And uh we we met with these uh these these Christian civil contractors that we were introduced to and sat down with them. Uh, this is like a few weeks later, showed them our plans, sort of the process, and they seem pretty keen, like pretty excited to do the do the work with us. And we're like, oh wow, okay. This will be fun. Um, and they're Christians too, so this is this makes it even you know, let's do the Lord's work, you know, that type of stuff. And and uh and we we left that meeting, and the next morning I uh that night I couldn't sleep very well, and I just felt I don't I don't think this is right. Um and I I don't know, and the G'd be great because you're kind of at that we're right at the pointy end of the stick now. It's like this is getting this is getting ridiculous. We're sure thankful thankfully we're keeping things afloat. Yeah, yeah, the time frame we were past the 11th hour, you know. So uh and um I woke up in the morning, so I've got to give the guy a call, and so I called him because I didn't ask the question, I didn't ask what colour your machinery was. Okay, so I asked him, I said, Hey, um, how you going? He goes, Yeah, you're all right. I said, Can you can you tell me? I got a random thing. I'm learning to hear God's voice. Yeah, can you just can you just tell me what color your machinery is? And he's like, uh, yeah, they're white. Oh no. I'm like, he's like, he says, why is that? I said, well, and I explained to him the journey, and he's like, Wow, that's I said, So mate, I don't think you're meant to do this work for us. And he's like, he says, you know what? That was just such a relief you said that. He says, honestly, I I want to help you. Yeah, I I said that to him. I said, Hey, I don't think it's for it for you. And he's like, Oh, thank you. He's like, I couldn't sleep last night. Um, I really want to help you guys. I I really feel for you guys what you're going through. I really want to try and help, but I'm just so extended at the moment with all our other projects we're in. I just can't afford to take this risk on. I'm like, that's okay, mate. It's just not meant to be. He goes, Wow, this is amazing. You're actually in the midst of this distraught, and you're going, I choose to follow God.
SPEAKER_00Amen. Say that again. Somebody needs to hear that. Like, yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_04If you're in the middle of that distress, distraught, that moments of just depth of despair, it comes a choice that you can just say, God, I still choose to follow you. I still choose to hang on to you. And realizing that he's holding on to you even tighter than you're holding on to him. Um, that's the beauty, beauty of who he is.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and your journey and like even walking this out with this fellow, like it probably opened his ears and eyes up to like more, right?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. So he was like, This is inspiring.
SPEAKER_00What are you doing?
SPEAKER_04Like, well, we'll I'll let you know how we go.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, come back to you in a little bit. So now I want to know like what was next.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so we we um uh thankfully praying, keeping connected with God, the picture changed. The picture changed to all the all the the house lots that we'd built, um not yet, but in the spirit, um were all sold. It was like little sold stickers on each one of them saying sold, sold, sold, sold, sold. And I'm like, surely God, that's completion, like that's our job. Like we don't get into building the homes, we just do the land and we move on. Like that's that's completion for us. And it was in that will one of the banks had sort of you know come the forerunner, and they were like starting to get you know deeper into you know, they want to do a little bit more uh deep dive into our finances and to the project and ordering valuations. So we're like, hey, this is well, we got some we got some got some real hope here now. Um this could actually play off. And I'm like, surely we should have our funding. Like that's that's it. Like that's what are you talking about? So we just kept going on that journey and you know, walking through that, uh it wasn't it was only a few months after this uh that I was praying again and the picture changed. And this time the picture was all the homes were built on the on the like a whole community was uh was built there, and because we were built acreage uh estate so people could have their own horse. Um it was like it was that type of style of development. Yeah, and um so there were kids on their bikes, walk, you know, riding down the street. There were you know, so this beautiful community was what I saw. Um you know, people mowing their lawns, you know, people coming home from work, you know, just that whole what what you experience just you know going around to the suburbs anywhere you live
right now. Um, and that's what I saw. And I'm like, oh, surely, surely, God, we've got our funding now. Surely this is it. Because that's completion. That is completion in God's eyes. You know, it's not just the you know, for us where we would find it, that's complete, but that's the full picture, all done. Families moved in, and what he's from from that perspective. And that afternoon, got the call uh from the bank we've been working with saying, Hey, congratulations, you got your funding.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god.
SPEAKER_04Oh my god, it was like it was the best moment. It was and business with my folks as well, and and went and told um went and told them. And I think you know, uh my dad just just cried and he's like, Wow, that's the hardest, hardest slog I've ever been in, just to get um that over the line. I'm like, I know this is just like yeah, this is borderline traumatic. Um but just really and um so I called one of our partners is the engineer and said, Hey, let's get this rolling, let's get the construction happening. How fast can we move? Because we've got the letter of you know, ready to go. So um he's like, Yeah, I've been working with these other contractors for a while, they're really good. Um, I'll chat to them anyway. Called them up, called back, said, Yep, they're ready to meet, let's meet tomorrow. Uh I've given them the plans, they're gonna go through it, give us a price. So they did, they did it fairly quickly, gave us a price, and was actually a lot sharper than what we had sort of estimated. So we're even like, wow, we're coming up ahead. So we organized a meeting, all of all us partners sat with them, and you know, we're sitting these guys, you know, they've got um big, big guys, big burly guys, they got their high viz shirts on, they've got construction workers, and they've just come off, you got dirt and everything. We're sitting down having you know a latte in a coffee shop and going through all the plans and looking at, and they're like, Yeah, we can do this, do that. And the engineer was drilling them and all the detail and stuff, and I'm sitting back going, yep, okay, fair enough. And we got right to the end of the meeting, and they're like, Okay, are we gonna do this? Uh, you know, we're ready to go. Uh, is this gonna happen? And and all the partners looked at me and said, Matt, you've got to ask him your question. Yeah, yeah, you've got to ask him your question, and I'm like, Oh, that one. And they're like, and then the engineer like just said, Hey, before you say anything, Matt, he said, Guys, let you know this is serious. If you get this answer wrong, we are not doing business. And they're like, Okay, okay. They're they're thinking, like, you know, what is this? I said, So, guys, what color's your machinery? And they're like and they sit back in their chairs and they're like, What? You know, like just perplexed at this at this question, and like, um, what is the colour of our machinery? We don't really care, you know. It's like, and they're like, uh, it's orange.
SPEAKER_01Oh, hell yeah.
SPEAKER_04They just said orange like this, and all of us partners stood up and reached across their hand and said, We've got to shake your hand. Well done, you got the job. And these guys are roared, laughing, and like, what uh what are you talking about? Like, I've never shook shaken on a deal based on the colour of our machinery. Like, are you guys nuts? And then that opened up a conversation, and we explained the journey and what we've been through and just how we're learning to hear God's voice. And and they uh they they were just so open to the gospel, and you know, they just wanted to we're you know, move walking on job site, would we they allow us to pray for them and you know, just just that just that relationship that formed out of that was just beautiful. Um, and uh yeah, so just yeah, how God's just got a just a he's got a sense of humor.
SPEAKER_00He is so funny and fun, isn't he?
SPEAKER_04That's right.
SPEAKER_00Like once you once you catch hold of it, he he's pretty funny.
SPEAKER_04He's pretty funny. He's hilarious. He's the funniest person I know.
SPEAKER_00So this is such an incredible testimony, and it it truly changed the trajectory of of your walk, I imagine. You've been able to now you've created a book around it. Um so what what happened after that moment? Did you transition into anything? I know that what was like what over 10 years ago. Um what happened since then?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so that was um uh we still had to outwork that project. So it was another three years um in that project to outwork the development. Uh and you know, we ended up selling it all off, and you know, and then there's now there's homes and people driving, you know, um uh riding horses and lawnmowers and all those things. So it's a beautiful community.
SPEAKER_00Well, I have to ask you, can I ask you really quick? Like I've asked I remember asking somebody I worked at a company many, many years ago. If you kind of think of it like remember, like Steve Jobs worked out of a garage to start this company that I worked for kind of started out of a garage, right? And then all of a sudden it becomes this, you know, the vision comes to life. Just like this vision for you literally came to life. Like do you see it often still?
Like these this community?
SPEAKER_04No, it's it's a bit it's it's a bit far from where I live now.
SPEAKER_00Okay, but initially like like what what were what like what came to your mind first? Like uh just the faithfulness of God, like in because what when you were sharing this, it reminds me. I don't know if you've seen that movie, Faith Like Potatoes.
SPEAKER_04I actually haven't seen it, but yes, I've heard of yeah, I have. I have to do it.
SPEAKER_00It's totally reminding me of Faith Like Potatoes. Yes, um, if you guys are listening out there, go check out this movie. It'll like just infuse your faith because we need like massive doses of faith, like everybody does, right? And this story, I pray that it it it you know inc increased your faith, especially for those of us, you know, who are in business. It's I always tell people like if you have a business, you have the you have to have the gift of faith.
SPEAKER_04Yes, that's right. Don't you say? So yeah, oh I I think um what I learned through the is is I'll I I didn't have a faith problem doing this doing this business. I learned that I had a trust problem. And I I realized that, but you know, faith is spelt uh you know f-a-i-t-h, the traditional, yeah, that's like that, but I like this way of putting it is faith is also spelt T-R-U-S T. It's spelt trust, but it's also spelt R-E-S-T. Amen. Rest.
SPEAKER_00You got it.
SPEAKER_04And I I didn't have a problem with the the drive and the hustle and the grind of doing all that, you know. And but what I discovered was wow, I actually didn't trust God that He could actually make this happen. So the the change, the transform that happened in me through this process was oh wow, God, I I need to learn how to trust you more. And and I didn't, you know, I I probably had to unravel a lot of my preconceived ideas of seeing God as a a bit of a big guy with a stick in the sky ready to smack you if you don't do the right thing.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_00Like taskmaster.
SPEAKER_04And that's right, a taskmaster. And um uh so we after that finished that development, and was you know, it basically we had planned to do that development three years, it that it protracted out to seven years. Um so that's that's a long time to go. We're gonna do this three, yeah. And honestly, I after that project was finished, I was done. I was like, I I don't want to do this again. And it's just that that that trauma of having to if I gotta do this every time, I don't want to do it. And it also being just a I guess a serial entrepreneur during that process of not having cash flow in that. We also had other business that we owned. Uh uh, we had a chain of barbershops that helped provide some cash flow for us moving forward, and even that wasn't enough. And I had to go uh I started another business in e-commerce, and we were selling uh physical products in Amazon, and um and and that was just helping keep things afloat through the process. So it wasn't just the development that was you know creating a drain. I also had you know just that hustle and grind and push and I gotta make things happen. If it's gonna be, it's up to me. And I had learnt and and and learnt and leaned on my own understanding and my own ability to create wealth rather than God's ability to create wealth, and it's it's totally different. And I guess when on that journey we we went and we said, Oh, we've we finished that project. And Jenny, when we finish the project, we'll take a take some time out, whether that be like a couple of weeks uh or that could be a couple of months, we just take some time off and just rest and refresh. And we went over to Bali uh with the kids and were quite young at the stage and just just sat in the pool and just just chilled out and said, Well God, what what what what does it look like for us moving forward? And uh we just wanted to take an even bigger break. And my wife wanted to move to America and so let's go over there for a bit, and and we'd heard of a place called Bethel and and Bill Johnson and these guys and the opportunity to go do the school. So I went, Oh let's let's take that time out. It's an intentional um year. I can still keep operating our barber shops and we can run that remotely, and I can
still do the e-commerce side of things. So that should be enough to live off and also attend school. So we did that, and that was just absolutely transforming. I just completely it was like being on the operating table for nine months and just allowing God just do a deep work in us and just really unravel and just clean just clean us, um, and get get our get that trust factor back in to saying, God, I I trust you. And there was a moment I remember, um, and this is this probably was probably one of the defining moments I had. Um, there was a time I was supposed to go to to school, and I was at school and had checked in and was about to sit down and uh hear the next um teacher and sitting next to my wife, and I'm like, you know what? I just can't be here. I don't know what it is. I just I just I just so frustrated. Uh our kids were you know in their school and we were at um Bethel School Supernatural Ministry BSSM. And I and I I left. I was like, I gotta go. I I don't know what it is. I just gotta I'm gonna have a Jesus timeout.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_04So I went back to our house. Um I um put on some worship music and with the little Bluetooth speaker and it's in the living room, and I just went, God, I don't know what what's going on. Something in me just agitating. And um, I just cried out to God and just started worshiping. Not nothing, nothing out of the ordinary. And um and Jesus walked in the room. Uh right that moment, he walked in the room and you know, just oh, what does he look like? No, it was uh the presence of Jesus walked in. I felt him just walk into the room and walk right up to me, and I was just just like fell to the floor like a sack of potatoes, uh, on my knees, and I was just weeping. I didn't know why. And I'm like, why am I crying so much? Uh like like like really messy cry, you know, the snot coming out of my way, the real thing. That's right. I was just on my knees and just just crying out, and just I didn't know what to say. I was just just crying, and and then it it just kept going, and there's only so much your physical body can take of that, and then he would just just lift, like he's just his presence would just lift a bit, make it a little bit lighter, enough for me to go to the bathroom and clean myself up and and I'd be there at the bathroom, like, I'm gonna go back, I need more. And I just this process was about an hour and a half, maybe two hours tops. And I got to the point and my alarm went off, and I I've got to go pick up Joe from school and pick up the kids from school. So I got in the car and drove down and there, and my wife saw me get in the car, she's like, Oh, you okay? And I'm like, Yeah, I think I've I've just had some time with Jesus. Uh and she's like, Oh, that's good, that's good. And I didn't I couldn't explain it, you know, when things happen, you just I don't know what happened, what was that about, you know? Okay, and uh and uh and then it was about all about a month later we were ministering in Chicago and we were going into boardrooms and businesses and uh just prophesying over them and just I was just having the best time. I was one of the the team leaders, um, so I I had to know what was happening next and what was where where our schedule was, you know, had a had a bit of a plan of what was leading our team, and I was just so lost with in the moment. I was just you were seeing miracles, guys were getting healed in in the boardroom. Uh, there was just people encountering God that have never don't even believe in God. Um, it was just like God's presence just sweep into this place, all guys wearing suits and ties and stuff, and and Holy Spirit would just show up and just absolutely just wreck them. And they're like, What is this? I'm like, This that's that's Holy Spirit. He just wants to tell you how much he loves you, you know. And we're having these great moments. And it was towards the end of the trip, got back to our hotel, and uh, the guys I was rooming with in the room hadn't come back from their ministry time, and I thought, oh, I'm gonna go up to the room, I'll get some time alone. Went up to the room, closed the door. As soon as I close the door, I hear God's voice. He says, says to me, Hey, remember when you were snot face on the floor? I'm like, Oh yeah. Yeah, what was that about?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, he's like
SPEAKER_04He's like, I delivered you from trauma. I'm like, trauma? What trauma? What what where where did I when did I learn that? Like what what happened? I grew up in a great home, great Christian family, you know. I never had any abuse or anything like that. You know, that was just like beautiful. And he said, when you were eight years old, your parents uh put you on the the youth bus to go up to a camp. It was a children's church camp. Um and I think misunderstood you thought they were coming with you, but they didn't, so you're gonna go, but they'll pick you up the next day.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_04When you realized on that bus that they weren't coming with you, that's when trauma came in because you felt abandoned. And uh and then but what happened was and I realized this, even I remember when in our 10-year anniversary, um, sitting on the beach at Cabo with my beautiful bride, and I'm like, you know, kids are back home with grandparents back in Australia, we're sitting on the beach at Cabo, and I am counting down the days and the hours till we leave.
SPEAKER_00Really?
SPEAKER_04I'm like, what is wrong with me? Yeah, like I'm like, here I am, like this is like wow, everyone dreams like sipping pina coladas on the beach, you know. Like, what? And I'm like, even like then I'm like, wow, what why? And you know, I just thought, well, hey, I'm a guy, I'm a business guy, I'm entrepreneur, I'm just naturally driven. I'm naturally just go always thinking of okay, how is this gonna play out? What's the next thing? What's the next thing? I couldn't be settled in the moment. And he's like, Because of that, when that happened when you were eight years old, you were used to you would count down the time when your parents would come and pick you up. You couldn't be in the moment. You were like, No, they're gonna come pick me up at this time, so you know, you would just you know hold it until you till they picked you up, and that's where you learnt
that I delivered you from that. I'm like, Wow, whoa, okay, and uh yeah, I'm like, wow, didn't even know. And and I said, Well, how am I different, God? Like, yeah, okay, I surely there's this difference. He said, You know, you have not checked your watch, your calendar, you don't even care what's coming up next. She says you have been in the moment every day since.
SPEAKER_00Wow. I think you're setting this this is setting somebody free right now. Because I I feel like somebody doesn't even realize that they've been delivered of something like this before, even to be able to live in that moment, right?
SPEAKER_04That's right. And it was like, and then he said, My presence is present, it's in the moment, it's now. He says, You notice you've you've been walking with me instead, you've been um just in that unity with with me, you and me, me and you, you know, just oneness. I'm like, wow, I haven't been concerned about tomorrow. He said, I've just been focused on the here and now. He said, Yeah, that's that's that. And I guess that for me had been defining that ever since and saying, Well, God, I I just don't want to do business again. That I'm striving, I'm hustling, I'm grinding, I'm trying to do more than where what you're already doing. So we sort of put a pause on our property development. It's only sort of just this year that we felt, God say, get back into it. We'd been done doing little projects, so like renovating a home or um by buying some flip properties and doing things like that, which is but nothing of sort of big scale, like you know, 20, 30, 40, 50 blocks, which was what we're used to. I just didn't feel permission to do it. Um, and plenty of opportunity, but just like I just don't feel right. But now it's like, hey, I want you to get back into it. I'm like, but now let's do it. You're ready. It's like, okay, God, let's go.
SPEAKER_00You've gone through the process.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Yeah. And you know, looking at the you're kind of like, God, I, you know, should should I I, you know, we should be further ahead than we we we could be back here and there, and yeah, I'm like, no, like my family's been beautiful and so important that building healthy rhythms of grace and discipling our kids that they're walking with the Lord and they're encountering God um themselves, that you know, it's God's got eternity in view. It's not about the you know, satisfying the um the here and now. He does care about the here and now and getting those those items fixed. He does really care about it. Yes, but he's got eternity in mind, and just going with the rhythm of his grace and flowing from that is is been beautiful.
SPEAKER_00Yes. I love like in Matthew 11, 28 through 30 in the message, it talks about the unforced rhythms of grace. Have you heard of you know that that that portion? Um, I just love I I've I've actually been through this process myself, and I'm it I feel like it's an ongoing process because um, you know, I I feel like the world has conditioned us. It it's it's it's challenging at times, um, you know, especially as business owners, to operate like so counterculture. Wouldn't you say? But it's such a blessing to be a voice. Um, I'm sure that you've impacted so many with your story and with you know the ways that he's you know led you to, you know, lead in business, to be a leader in this realm, right? Yeah. Um, so you wrote a book. Tell us about your book again. What is the name of it?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, how to hear God at Work.
SPEAKER_00Okay. And when did you start writing this book? And and like my question is, were you a natural writer?
SPEAKER_04I didn't know I was. Um yeah, until writing this book. Um going through that process. Um, because I felt that yeah, just what we went through uh and unpacking how God's voice leads and guides us, you know, it says in John says, My sheep hear my voice, I know them, and they follow me. And it's like, how do I how do I follow God's voice? How do I follow his presence? And and the book is just very practical, you know, it's a how-to, so there's full of activations, and each
each chapter is written. Um, I guess how I would like to read a book. I read a chapter, it's very short and sharp, to the point, and then hey, go and do it, like go and actually put it into practice. Um, and in that, you know, it's also got online course, and you know, people want to go deeper, but um that book, you know, and it shares not just my testimony in that, but others' testimonies through that process of unpacking what does this look like to partner with God at work, and you know that God, we're not working for him, we're working with him. And there's a there's a big difference in that. So, and it's outworking that process is is beautiful and challenging at the same time. Um, it's just that that life of surrender. Um, that hey, uh I'll listen, God, you just you just take me where you want to go. I just I just don't want to do anything without you anymore. Um, you know, I love what you know in Nexodus 33 talks with Moses having a having a conversation with God and God wants to wipe out the Israelites, he's just fed up with them. And he says, I'll make you a great nation, Moses. He's like, Don't put that evil on me, God. I don't want that. And and uh he's like, Oh, um, he's like, Listen, you you gotta come with us. He goes, No, no, no, I'll send my angel with you. And if you look at angels in uh what they actually bring, they bring favor, they bring blessing, they bring provision and protection and healing. Like what business owner doesn't want favor, protection, provision, you know, healing, all those elements. Like it's kind of like our prayer list, isn't it? It's kind of like God, you know, bless this and God heal this and God do this, God do that. It's like the prayer list. And uh that was the first offer on the table for for Moses, and um and Moses like, no, no, God, unless your presence goes with us, we're just not gonna go anywhere. I don't want to go anywhere without you, yeah. You know, just that that that that heart cry to say, just need you. I I don't care about the stuff, I don't care about the provision, I don't care about that, I just want you. And and that's where you know God's like, good answer, Moses. That's that's my boy, you know. And he's like, right, my presence will go with you, and I'll give you rest. And it's it's the rest that comes when you're doing life that life flow with God is like, yeah, you can be super busy, you can be doing a lot of things, and but it's earmarked with I I sleep at night, sleep peacefully, my family is is in unison, we're not fighting. There's there's just a beauty in all this. Um, it's not saying I'm not productive, I'm not just laying down and just being real lazy, or you know, it's it's it's everything's got this this flow to it, and it's just beautiful. And I I've tried going you're like, oh, I'm gonna do it my way. I'm like, nah, not doing it. No, no way, get back into yeah, you get a quick I need your rest.
SPEAKER_00You get a pretty quick check in your spirit, wouldn't you say?
SPEAKER_04Like, yeah, sometimes, sometimes it can be pretty quick, sometimes I guess before uh leading up to Christmas. It wasn't until I'm like, you know what? I realize I've been operating out of performance and out of probably more aligned with purpose than I have out of his presence. And I'm like, I just gotta get back to dad. I just gotta go back to dad and sit with him again and just let him love me um and just be a good receiver of his love and of his acceptance, and then from that place, okay, well let's then let's go.
SPEAKER_00Well, I know like in the beginning, can I just kind of like kind of do a little bit of full circle? I don't want to pass this moment up. Um in the beginning, you had said, you know, I I read my Bible, I do the reading plan, I pray for a little bit, you know, just kind of like check it off. How has that shifted for you now? I feel like somebody might be wondering like, what does that look like for Matt now to, you know, is it has that shifted? Like, what does that look like through your day or to start your day? Or um how do you stay in his presence?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so it's being aware that he's always with you. And that's the greater truth, that I don't have to conjure up a feeling or emotion or a or a moment in order to have an encounter with God, that he is I'm a living walking encounter with him, that he's always with me. My just my awareness might be a little bit skewed. So rather than you know, um sitting down and spending hours in the Bible or you
know, praying for hours at a time, it's like I'm being led from the inside out. So it's like those moments come, so you know, so it's like God will wake me up in in the in at night. And like the other night, he woke me up at three o'clock in the morning, and and it wasn't like sometimes he says, let's go for a walk, or let's go do this, or let's go do that. Other times he just woke me up and I'm like, hmm. I could go back to sleep, I could I could just do nothing, I could roll over, and I'm like, I'm awake. I don't need to go to the bathroom, I don't need to do any of this stuff. You know what? I'm just gonna go downstairs and I'm just gonna sit with God. I don't have I don't want to have a list or an agenda, and I just sat with him and I said, Hey dad, I love you. And he's like, Hey son, I love you too. And just that that um was probably about maybe if I'm timing it, probably 30 minutes. Yeah, and um he's just wrapping me up and he loves me and I'm loving him back, and he didn't and you you know you could go, well, okay, look now, now let's ask him all the stuff I need. He knows I need all that, he knows I want all that. Why? Like he's a great dad, and I just let him love me. And I and I, you know, went walked back up to bed. I'm like, oh, I'm gonna go back to bed, you know. It's got a few bit more hours of sleep, it'll be a big day tomorrow. Okay, and I lay back to bed, but I felt God walk behind me as I went to bed, and I'm like, You you haven't you're still with me? He says, Yeah, and then I laid down in bed, laid on my side, and he just gently strokes my head and just said, I love you, son. I love you. Beautiful, and I'm like, okay, I haven't been put to bed by Father God, you know. Uh and it's just this like just letting him love you. Um, and it's just if those affections of your heart have been, you know, pulled in other directions, it's really simple and easy just to like even I teach my guys and in our business crew that I lead is just hey, just really simple. If you're in an office chair, just and you've got one of those swivel chairs, just swivel away from your computer or your phone or wherever it is, yeah. And just God's right in front of you, just swivel your heart back to him and just say, I love you, Father God, I love you, Jesus, I love you, Holy Spirit. And in a moment, he will rush in and fill you with his love and peace. And then when you feel that love and peace again, it's like then just get back to work.
SPEAKER_00Can you imagine if everybody did that?
SPEAKER_04It'd be the world would change in an instant.
SPEAKER_00You have the answer to world peace, Matthew.
SPEAKER_04That's it.
SPEAKER_00Swivel, just spin in your chair and turn towards the father. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And it's it's not uh uh in an hour-long worship service or uh anything like that. All those are great, like those are moments. I love those corporate worship times too. But it's that okay, I just gonna shift the attention and the affection from my heart back to him. So you know, so I could be walking, walking, and I'm feeling you know, uh bombarded with fear or you know, different things, and you just go, I love you, Father, I love you, Jesus, I love your Holy Spirit. I've got a friend of mine, he's a pretty cool business guy, one of my mentors, and he's got a thing that he's developed, just uh a rhythm that every time he walks through a door, yeah, whatever door it is, car door, bathroom door, you know, the uh a train door, plane door, whatever, he just says, I love you, Jesus.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I love that. That's such a like like a like it's not a it's a trigger to remember.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00In a good way, of course.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you're not praying for you know, God, you know, transform the world like he's gonna do it, but he's gonna do it through you. And it's just keep your affection of your heart just just pliable and and moldable with his hands.
SPEAKER_00Amen. Well, I know before we got started, I I think do you do you work like with men specifically, like mentoring men as well?
SPEAKER_04Uh I work with a lot of men, but also women as well. So just mainly um Christian business leaders, yeah. So the ones that you know going on that entrepreneurial journey of how to, you know, there's there's a lot of a lot of things that they walk through. I'm like, yeah, I know what you're walking through.
SPEAKER_00Tell us a little bit more about that. Like what are you like what are you doing or like what is coming up that maybe somebody could get involved in if they're led to hear more about that?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, sure. So so we run a ministry called Salt and Light Wealth Academy. So it's really bringing the kingdom of God into the space of you know your wealth creation, your uh your business business walk. And so we run a cohort, probably two cohorts a year, just a small group of no
more than 10 at a time. Um we find that um keep it keeps it intimate, keeps it relational. Um, we go on a bit of a journey together of of really four key areas. One is hearing and partnering with God. Um, what does that look like for individually? So, you know, obviously you're hearing my story, you know what that looks like, but that that can be different for you because it's a relational thing, and it's like you can't formularize this. Right. Um so really giving you those tools and abilities to walk that out, but you're doing it in community too. Um so that's that's really fun. Uh the second pillar we go through is is supernatural identity, understanding who you are and whose you are. Uh that's really important, being comfortable in your own skin. Um, and I'm just not talking about a body image, but I'm talking about that, hey, I know who I am, I know who my father is, and I don't need to strive for attention here. I know what I'm called to do and I know who I'm called to be, and this is who I am, you know. Um Jesus was not afraid to tell the world who he was, he's not afraid to say I'm the son of God. It's a pretty bold statement, but you know, we need you need that humility. All right. Um, and the third area is uh powerful relationships. So yeah, when you're in business, you're always dealing in some level of conflict, walking into one transition of conflict to another. Um, you know, having brave communication, having those talks that you need to do, whether that's your staff, whether that's your suppliers, your customers, whatever that looks like. Maybe that's at home. Um, so walking in how to actually do uh walk in grace and love, keep your love on towards others and how to actually communicate in conflict really well. Um I find that's a really key one. And then the last one is financial breakthrough. So, you know, what does that look like to actually uh bring your finances back into the kingdom and uh how to actually start pursuing things out of righteousness and saying, okay, God, what is it, what does what is my assignment look like to actually carry out on the earth and how am I meant to build wealth? You know, not everyone's called to build a big big business. Some people are just called to build a big family. Um, I love what Bill Johnson says is like, you know, whether you are changing diapers or you're raising the dead, it pays the same in the kingdom of God.
SPEAKER_00Amen. I love that.
SPEAKER_04So it's it's yeah, so we're like, hey, whatever your assignment is, there's not there's no uh like scale of oh, you're more important or you're less important. Uh it's like you know, we want to uh bless uh bless what God's doing on you and honor and walk in that honor and and help develop part of financial breakthrough is also uh re-establishing honor in your ecosystem. So we unpack what that looks like to um bring honor in relationships and business deals because God's economy is about people, not about money. And when we get the people right, then God just naturally flows, the blessing flows. I've just seen it time and time again. Like people on verge of bankruptcy, uh mortgage-y possession about to come in and repossess their their assets, then it's like, hey, let's just hey God, where have we missed it in relationship with others on our journey and going back and hey, I'm sorry, hey, what do I need to do to restore this? What let's make amends, let's bring it back. And so God just goes, Oh, great, now I can get involved. I'm always here, I'm waiting, but it's like we've just got to reconnect all the dots back back to him.
SPEAKER_00Incredible. Well, I am so thankful that you came on and shared, you know, your journey. And I'm I know that you've blessed so many, especially, you know, it it it's not just for those of you who are, you know, in business, it translates into all areas, right? Um, so as we close today, um, I would love for you to first of all share how can people get in touch with you? Because I know that people want to get in touch with you.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Yeah, sure. So if you're on the website is SALTLight Wealth. So SALT and Light, L-I-G-H-T, Wealth W E A L T H, couldn't I think my spelling dot com. Um, that's probably the easiest way.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_04Other than yeah, that's probably the easiest way to get in contact. There's plenty of opportunity to connect, and you'll connect straight to me. Um yeah, I just uh I always I handle all my customer relations. Um, I don't outsource that to anyone. So I like that personally to everyone. Um yeah, so that's uh that's probably best way to get in contact.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Well, and then uh I shared before um as I do this podcast, I really do this for the one. Um, but he's shown me one times one in the world is one and one times one in the kingdom is exponential. So if you could just think of the one who's listening in today, um do you have anything else that you'd like to share? Um maybe any words of wisdom or word of knowledge or encouragement over this one. And then would you pray us out today?
SPEAKER_04Yeah so just clarifying you want me to there's someone that's listening that really just kind of get in mind somebody.
SPEAKER_00Yeah just somebody that comes to mind. Would you speak over that one today?
SPEAKER_04Yeah sure. So before jumping on this call I had um yeah I had actually had a dream last night that was quite interesting and always pay attention to the dreams uh that I get whether that could be it could sometimes they're God dreams sometimes they're not um and I was just reminded there's person out there uh that you feel like you've been scammed like there's been uh um feel betrayed and particularly around the realm of finances where it's kind of like you've been conned out of uh some funds uh or even some some life savings and I just I just really felt there's a grace and one I know what that's like like I know what feels like to be scammed um and lose money to you know good intentional people um and you realize hey this was just a Ponzi scheme or this was something
that I didn't was was unaware and I just want to one firstly break off the disappointment of that you know and a lot of times you can look at that and say God where were you where were you in this? Why didn't you stop me? Why didn't you hold back that why didn't you rush in and say no and I just want to firstly address that that um if you're willing to surrender that disappointment and willing to say hey God I'm sorry for not trusting you even though this situation happened um that God says that those who trust in the Lord shall never be disappointed and I just really want to reaffirm that he's a good good father and he loves you and I love in Romans 8 28 it's like you know he works all things together for good and if it's not looking good at the moment that he's still working if you would let him work on this situation God's going to turn this around to be even a greater measure of abundance and flow that you have never experienced before because you're like God well I tried it my way God I'm willing to try it your way so even you might not have the the funds to write to scrape together in order to invest or to do the things that you you hoped and dreamed of but I just really believe that rather than partnering with that that grief or that sorrow it's like there's a time has come now to say God what next hey God what do I do now and I just really feel that I just want to prophesy over you that if if that's you that God's actually going to turn this around you're gonna see provision come to you from uh uh really unusual ways and I'm reminded of when uh Jacob uh went through grief because he lost Joseph and it was when uh he learnt that Joseph was still alive and now he was the prime minister of of Egypt and he saw all the camels coming um of provision that was coming to collect his dad to bring him back to the land of Egypt in the middle of famine in the middle of destitute around them and I just see the camels I just want to prophesy over you that the camels are coming. The camels are on their way and they're loaded with God's goodness they're loaded with his favor they're loaded with his provision and if you just lift up your eyes and see and believe again and hope again and and dream again of the plans and the destiny that you have already laid up in your heart that it's time to lift up your eyes and say God I choose to believe again and because you choose to believe again God's is just waiting just to it's kind of like you just like pop this big big balloon it's just full of his goodness is just going to pop over you. So if you can just do a little simple activation if you're listening to this just like grab your pointer finger just your index finger and just like just point it to the sky as if there's a big balloon about to pop and you just pop it just poke your finger up in the air it's like as if you're like I'm just gonna pop that and there's all of heavens just rushing in into all and flooding your heart and mind and soul again so you can just walk instead and see yes the camels are on their way. Ooh pop anybody else amen receive that too oh my gosh well would you pray us out yeah for sure so Lord thank you for this wonderful time together thank you for Kristen and all the listeners that have been listening into this this me rattle on thank you for your time thank you honor your time and yeah I just just want to play pray a blessing over every single one that you just encounter the love of the father again wherever you are that whether you are in the middle of the night having a wonderful dream and the father will just show up in the midst of your dream whether you're driving on your way to work and his presence just rushes in like a flood and just says I love you again so just your reconnection back to his presence back to his love and affection for you and you just open your hearts and minds again to receive just all he has for you that his plans towards you are wonderful. They're beautiful they're amazing and you just get to say yes if you just say yes God I receive it I receive your love amen.
SPEAKER_00Amen well Matt thank you so much for coming on um and thank you so much for being a brave voice who's setting so many free I am going to close with Hope Unlocked anchoring verse and it's may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope. And that's Romans 1513. Thank you again Matthew you've got a lot of uh wisdom to pour out to us so if you'd like to come back another time we'd love to have you um and I will be back with another episode next week listeners thank you bye thank you thank you