Welcome to the Hope Unlock Podcast. I'm your host, Kristen Kurtz, and I'm also the founder of New Wings Coaching. I help and empower wild-hearted and adventurous women of faith feeling caged and stuck, unlock their true purpose and potential, break free from limitations, and thrive with confidence, courage, and hope. If you're curious to learn more about coaching with me, head to NewWingsCoaching.net and be sure to explore the show notes for ways to connect with me further. Get ready to dive in as we uncover empowering keys and insights in this episode. So tune in and let's unlock hope together. Welcome to the Hope Unlocked podcast. I'm Kristen Kurds, your host. I pray this episode is like a holy IV of hope for your soul. Please help me welcome Kurt Euler to the show. I'm very excited to have him on today. We are a recent connection, had a few minutes to talk before we got started,
and I'm just really thrilled to hear what he's going to share today. And um before we get started with that, Kurt, could you just tell us a little bit about yourself?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I uh I'm a corporate executive by kind of trade. Um I started as an entrepreneur, started uh two LLCs when I was 14. I've been really successful from a business perspective. Uh we took a company public. I was on that leadership team. We've uh sold quite a few companies. I've been part of more than 80 acquisitions or funding rounds by venture capital groups and private equity groups. Um, but I I've also had a turmoil uh that's happened in my personal life. I've watched people be more monetarily successful than any of us could really imagine, but yet you look back and there's just a wake of destruction behind them. And that's um that's kind of both led me to re-examine how I was growing companies and realize like the authoritative uh way that I was leading people uh was actually much um much weaker from a business case perspective. And then more recently I've been pulled more and more um into speaking to faith-based organizations, family organizations about raising servant leaders and what does servant leadership look like at home.
SPEAKER_00So good. I I want to go back like way back before we get into that. You said you started a company at 14 or two, did you say two companies at 14?
SPEAKER_01Two companies at 14, yes.
SPEAKER_00Tell us about that. Like 14. What what what were your companies all about?
SPEAKER_01Well, we had uh actually two two companies, and then I was working for uh Homeland Security at the time as well, uh, because I got caught hacking 232 federal servers. Um that's that's so a lot happened when I was younger. I got into a lot of kind of trouble at things, but I didn't sit still. And so um, but yeah, I uh my brother's 18 years older than me. And so he'd started um you know selling things at flea markets and wanted somebody to come in with that. And we ended up creating uh a very early e-commerce store uh that did seven figures a year um and selling swords, knives, martial arts equipment. Um we had quite a number of stores across North Alabama for a while. But the the core thing was my I did what every kid did. I went to go start selling um, you know, I'll I'll mow your lawn. And uh I was really good. And after like a week of selling, I realized I'd sold like three times the number of lawns that I could possibly do myself. And so my dad's like, well, you have to like figure that out. So I started hiring friends, and then by the December of that year, I had enough stuff pre-sold for the next year that uh we went into um my 14 uh the year when I was 14 with uh what 11 for 11 part-time people and two full-time people on staff. And so um had to figure out an LLC and taxes and was kind of like left to go with that. My dad's basic thing was like, I thought you were gonna use like my lawnmower and a few things, like you need to figure out equipment. And like he probably watched more from the sides, but he literally just said, uh, you're gonna have to you're gonna have to figure out taxes and whatnot, because otherwise, like the the the government will come and uh put you in jail, they expect taxes. And um basically I had I figured all of that out myself. Um I was really good at selling and operations and so wow.
SPEAKER_00So is this like is business in your blood? Is this something that you'd like watched other family members, you know, walk this out?
SPEAKER_01Not for starting companies or anything. Um, I mean, my my dad was always really smart. He uh worked for Bell Labs for years, which was kind of the Apple back in the day. Like they literally like invented the first cell phone network called uh on a different uh wireless technology uh back years and years ago. And so my dad would take all the concepts somebody in an uh office would have, and his team would actually build it out and then prove that you how you would build it and sell it. And like he would he would take me into the those companies at nine, 10, and 11. And I actually ended up billing some hours because I solved some things. And um, so I was around that. But my mom was uh, you know, a very rural family, uh, literally walked to school, you know, many miles back and back both directions. And uh my my mom would keep me out. I remember like, you know, 10, 11 years old, and it's like we're still raking leaves. And I'm like, I want to go to sleep. She's like, we don't go to sleep when we're tired, we go to sleep when we're done. And so she she, I think she just taught me how to work.
SPEAKER_00That's so good. So you're like, you're you're doing all the things when you're a teenager. What did that look like for you to keep going to keep the business running? How long did you do these two businesses?
SPEAKER_01Um, the my brother actually still ran that company for uh for many years. He actually only recently shut down the uh online site. The um after
it kind of uh continued to shrink for the last like maybe seven or eight years. But the I it was I was shutting down that lawn care business, which became pressure washing and other kind of minor maintenance. But uh I was gonna shut it down when I went to college. And thankfully I was in the uh county rescue squad with my dad and uncle. And one of the old timers is you know like 70, 75 plus, was like, Wait, wait, he knew. I mean, he knew about this business, and it basically ran without me. And he's like, You don't shut something like that down, you sell that. And uh I I I I asked a few questions and he was like, I'll walk you through it. And so I had a decent six-figure exit on my way to college. So that was uh it was nice. It was basically we sold the book of business to somebody.
SPEAKER_00That is incredible. I actually have never heard of anybody doing that as a teenager. So you're the first that I've ever heard of anybody being able to walk that out. That is incredible. So, you know, kind of even looking back today, like at that um time in your life, what was like the biggest lesson that you took away from from that time of being a teenager or running a business?
SPEAKER_01The biggest thing for me then was uh most people, most people have ideas or they have dreams and and they don't follow their actions. And so actions at the end of the day are the only thing that matters. Uh I mean, including like getting started on a project. I mean, you could write an article or you could you could do whatever the project is. And if you get it 90% of the way done, to to to your customer, it's as not complete as if you had done nothing. And so un until you have finished that product, until you have finished something and got it out, that's that's the only thing that really kind of matters. And so uh that that was just kind of the the keenly aware thing at the beginning, as well as uh nobody's coming to save you. I mean, from a from a reality perspective. And so I I would assume my my father's past now, but I I would assume he probably watched from the outsides to make sure I wasn't gonna get in too much trouble or legal issues or anything. But but he basically just had me figure it out by myself. And so like it was a like you're in this yourself. So wow.
SPEAKER_00Was that and was that challenging for you? Like looking back on that now. Do you would you have liked him to come alongside you more as a father figure in that in that entrepreneurial realm?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. Not just as an entrepreneur, but uh, I mean, also in so many things. Like I uh was a um I ended up being a uh Division I college athlete in three sports. And so uh I was you know rather good at running all my I was uh I it was running for me, indoor track, indoor and outdoor track and cross country. And he had um, because I was good at that the high school level, he had found uh an Olympic training coach for me and would drive me an hour 15 minutes twice a week to Birmingham, Alabama to go do that. So we had that time driving, but we didn't really talk. He he wouldn't get up in the morning to go like to do the training and stuff. And so it's like even that, like I had to figure it out myself. And what I what I wanted was not somebody to just show up to attract me. What I wanted was somebody to show up at four o'clock in the morning when I was supposed to go run sprints.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Wow. Well, and I I didn't know I would go here, but you know, a lot of um, you know, I look at even our society right now, and this might kind of lead into to where you're going with your the main part of your message is um, you know, there's a lot of absentee fathers. And I don't know if you're open to to sharing about this, but because he maybe wasn't there when you needed him most, um, what kind of challenges did that bring about for you as you were growing up, you know, into your 20s and even now at times I would imagine?
SPEAKER_01I'm not sure that him not being there showing up was the it was the things that jumped out as much. It was more of how we interacted on things where um I chased uh success in the world because of how they interacted. And so I look back to you, I was born in a southwest suburb of Chicago. And so, like, you know, be when we had like you know, weeblos and uh and and things before you got to Cub Scouts, like we had they started a recycling program. And so it's like we were one of the first like small troops for this new new new early, early Cub Scouts thing back in the day. And um, on the first year, I uh exceeded anything that they could thought of for this recycling program. And so they had to make up a new award the first year. And the second year, same thing. They had to make up, they they changed all the things and they had to make up an award next year. And I don't remember if it was the second year or the third year that again they've we've I'd exceeded what they did and they had to make up a new award. And coming off the stage, my dad's response wasn't good job. My dad's response was I can't wait to see what you do next year, which to me was then this wasn't good enough. And so, like that ended up being like, I think why I chased so many things from just an accomplishment perspective. I mean, years later, and maybe part of the story is like, you know, I I got a call um after my dad had passed. I I got a call during President Trump's first uh first time in the White House to to help set up a symposium there and come advise him and do a bunch of stuff in the White House. And after I had done that, I I'd mentioned to one of my uh to one of my aunts that I said, I uh, you know, I like I you know, maybe dad would have been proud of this. And and they were like, he was always proud of you. I'm like, not that he ever told me. And like they were like, well, he told everybody else that I'm like, yeah, but he never told me. So because of that, I it was always, well, what I I was never happy with what for most of my life with what I was being accomplished at that time.
SPEAKER_00And were you like, did you grow up in the church when you were growing up as well, or or no?
SPEAKER_01Uh I did grow up in the church. It was kind of a mixed bag. My uh dad did not come to faith until uh I was in my late 20s, early 30s. And um, I didn't know that he was an agnostic at the time. Um and so he would go to church. My mom was a believer, but was of that generation. She was born in 39 if you don't talk about politics or faith. And so we went to church, but you didn't really see it in any of their lives. And my dad wasn't a believer. And so I was raised around the church, but um, but but not with it kind of you know being part of our normal life.
SPEAKER_00Okay. And did you like have like a a relationship with the Lord at that time?
SPEAKER_01Um be great to have a conversation with Jesus when I get there. Um, I did stand up when I was uh when I was in my early teens and um progress uh profess my faith, but um that's like literally like that's what you did in the small town in North Alabama at that time. And so um, you know, did that save me? I like some people will say yes. I I don't think I actually came to faith until I was in my 30s.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Yeah, because I, you know, I didn't grow up in the church and I had um, you know, a pretty absentee father, and it it did. It and I'm just curious for you, like, did it take a while for you to um just really accept like our our God the Father, the Lord, his love um because of you know your experience with your own father?
SPEAKER_01Not not so much, because when I c when I I feel like I really came to faith, I had three massive things that happened in my life and and I had nothing else at that point. And I had been seeking for a couple years. And um, so at that point, it's like there was nothing else in uh nothing else in my life. And so um God was kind of all I had.
SPEAKER_00So well, would you would you be open to sharing a little bit more about that that um progression into like you had you said you had nothing?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I uh happy to share a little bit more. I I I had been going through um so I had found out a couple years into my first marriage that my wife had been having an affair and had thought that that had stopped. Fast forward then to seven years into that marriage, and in one week,
I lost a $100 million deal for the company I was working with, where I was on the deal closing team and ended up we ended up winning that deal the next year. But in my mind, uh uh at that age, and I was early into sales, like to my mind, that was blackballing you. And um, so that happened. Uh my dad got diagnosed with what we thought was gonna be a very short terminal uh cancer, and then um I found out that the uh the affair I thought uh my wife was having that I thought was done had actually been continuing that whole time. And so for like six of the seven years we'd been married, she'd been having an affair and she was wanting to continue to go uh to to go that route with him. And so that all happened. And so it's like on the on paper, uh I'd been very successful from a work perspective and internationally, but uh like one everything just fell apart, and I thought, you know, my job was gonna be falling apart. And nobody in my personal life cared. Nobody at work cared about any of the things that had happened.
SPEAKER_00Not one person.
SPEAKER_01Uh I had a mentor who kind of cared, but like I called my mom, and my mom was the type of person that no matter what uh anybody in the family has done wrong, she always defended them. So again, somebody else in the family, like whoever whoever was like on the on the negative side of things, she was always gonna take their side. And I called her and I kind of walked through everything that happened, and I'm like, and like all the stuff's happened at work, and some of the people found out I you know, I know about the affair and uh my wife was having and other things, and I'm like, why does nobody care? And my mom goes, Well, because you're an asshole. Oh my god, and I was like, I'm floored because one, my mom always she never cursed, and she always took everybody's side. And I'm like, What did you say? And she was she repeated it, and I was like, Wow, well, why like why would you say that? She was like, Well, you are, and I was like, Well, why would you never have told me that before? She said you wouldn't have listened before, and so like you know, she was still kind of like there, but like in that case, like I called her because I knew like she wasn't necessarily gonna be on my side because I was right, she was gonna be on my side because she was mom, and that's just what she does. Um, and in that case, like she was kind of on my side for the long term to tell me what uh uh in truth what I needed to hear, but like didn't feel like it at that time.
SPEAKER_00Right. Oh my gosh. So so you did you like cry out to God at that time?
SPEAKER_01Like what Yeah, I did. Um, I uh I had a uh large place in Chicago and I was on the of the stairs between different floors and uh just kept basically collapsed. And I I had been seeking for a while um because I knew things were had not been right in my my marriage, and so I had tried going to uh going to one church and then had found my way to uh Moody Church, which is connected to Moody Moody, Moody Bible Institute in Chicago. And um, so I had been going there for uh a good while. And so um I I said I I had been seeking and the um so I I did have a a family, uh a faith family then that did step in, but I didn't know that how they were gonna step in at that time.
SPEAKER_00Yes. So how did they step in? Like what did that look like compared to your previous experience of you know, having other people you reached out to? Um, obviously your mom said you're an asshole, which I'm like, wow. I mean, and I almost have to ask, like, do you do you look back and you do you see any truth to that?
SPEAKER_01Oh, absolutely. I mean, I I I mean, like from a work perspective, um, that that took me down uh uh a complete uh change of of how I led-wise because what what I had kind of looked at it was like I had been monetarily successful, but it caused me to start looking at all these people who had uh who had either who had chosen to leave working for me or that I had fired before, and like people that when they left that had been really sick really good or became really successful afterwards, and it's like I lost all these high talent people, and many of them were doing it to protect their own families and stuff because of how we pushed them at work. And I was like, I led through authority and thought that that's like there's a whole bunch there we could talk about. And I I I it actually caused me to start sitting down and I took about six months and and kind of created the business case to serpent leadership that says outside of faith or morals or anything, like there's there's two, there's I think there's only two ways to lead, and uh we can talk about that, but it was like that took me to start putting down like on paper, like what is that what is leading in a very different way than what the world thinks it looks like. Um, and so that happened, but like back to your question, like with with Moody Church, like it's a massive church, and so I you know, I pr pretty much just sat in you know one part of the uh the the lower part of the sanctuary, and for whatever reason, like I didn't feel comfortable and um I went and sat somewhere else. And like the I remember these two little old ladies who sat on the road in front of me went and came and found me because they were like, we thought you weren't here, and so it's like multiple people had done that, and so um I ended up being mentored by the uh by the uh family pastor
for the church who had been the former general counsel of Moody Bible Institute. So uh that was like he literally just kind of pulled up shoulder to shoulder with me and was like, I don't know if this is gonna work, but let's see what we can do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So, like what what came out of that mentorship um time together?
SPEAKER_01Um uh a lot of studying of the word. Uh Moody Church is very much kind of almost like a university. They have 100, 200, 300, and 400 level classes that uh you can work through for studying scripture and different uh theological parts. Um he so I I went through a lot of those, but uh he had me really kind of examine what I wanted out of my life, think temporally about different things, and then point out that like like like your wife, your your wife is going to make the choices she's gonna make, you can't solve that. Um, but uh he ended up, you know, to kind of talk me through. It's like I ended up moving down to Atlanta originally because um my ex-wife had moved here, which was weird, because of all the places in the country she uh would have moved, she never would have moved here. Um, but she moved down here because uh it was closer to the guy that she was with uh that um she had been with. And like I could have got a job, like you want to move to Seoul, I could get you a job in Seoul. Uh I I know people that I did not have the connections down here. And uh that family pastor had kind of looked there and he's like, well, like if these things are important to you, and heaps like matter-of fact ways, he goes, Look, like the Lord can do anything, but like things are easier when there's closer proximity, so you need to think about moving. And so I spent a week a month for 16 months visiting down here networking before I decided what I what I was gonna do next from a job perspective.
SPEAKER_00So Okay. Wow. Well, if we could just go back to even that job that you were in, you know, leading. Um, if you could just explain what asshole leadership looks like. I don't usually swear on here, but it's I think it's okay, honestly. You know, these aren't like it's it's not destructive words. So could you just share? Um just if somebody's listening today and maybe they're you know, a CEO or they're a boss, and I I just would love for you to share because some, you know, we don't always see what we're doing unless somebody shares something, there's a testimony or like, wait a second, that's actually what I'm doing. Would you be open to just sharing a little bit more of like what that looked like for you to lead in that way?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I uh I I may take it even a little more simplistic than that. I think um I I differentiate everything very binary. I think uh leadership people, there's so many labels. I mean, you you go look on Amazon, there's 700 different names somebody's come up with for different leadership styles. And it's like at the end of the day, to me, there is only authoritative leadership. And so we'll in the chart case of a job, it's I hire you to do a job, do these tasks in the way that I'm telling you to do it, in the time frame I'm telling you to do it. And at some level, there's always the end if you don't do it, do the do exactly what I'm asking, you're going to be fired. Um, and and so that person can still be nice. Um, and that's also where the where the confusion often happens. To me, the other side of that is a servant leader, a servant leader. And it's different than uh than the book that was written like in the 70s, because for me, the servant leader takes hiring, we'll say with that example, as a very different approach. I'm not hiring you to do a job, I'm hiring you to reach a business outcome that I want or that the company wants. At which point, the moment that I've hired you, I did hire you to do certain tasks, but my job then become should become a servant to say, I my job is to do everything I can to help you reach the business outcomes that I want. That could mean coaching, that could mean training, that could mean uh um being very strict with kind of the uh um with what I how I think your performance is. It may mean pulling up shoulder to shoulder you and showing you how to lay tile. If I was running a contracting business, but my job is to help to help you reach those outcomes that I want. And so I the reason I differentiate that is I see a lot of people that are much more harsh or gruff, but they're really servant leaders. That's how they show up to the people that they work with. On the other side, I I've been brought in to coach coach CEOs, and they think they're a servant leader because they're nice and they ask people about their weekend and their kids. But if If I sit in their meetings or I read through their emails and I go you know, ask people to work for them, they're really an authoritative leader where people are like, Yeah, if I don't hit my numbers, I'm going to be fired. Like, I you know, I remember I was coaching one CEO a number of years ago, and like he had a direct report whose spouse had come down with cancer. And the CEO did not know it because they were like, I I'm concerned that if if they know too much about what's going on, like I like, yes, I don't always show up, but I may be able to cover that because of the level that I'm at. But like they want me to hit my monthly, my quarterly numbers. And and is that actually who the CEO was? I don't like he would he would have been floored if he knew that at the time. Uh, and he was. We ended up kind of talking through that, but but that's how he showed up to people, anyways.
SPEAKER_00Well, I love I love this this differentiation here. Um, I'm almost I'm almost seeing like under authoritative, like the person that would be walking that out, like the employee potentially is is kind of looked at more of like a slave, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I mean, in I mean it's it's so much weaker for the company in so many ways, too, because like the in some cases, you know, the you know, the boss has been very successful. Maybe he or she's been successful repeatedly. So they think they're right. And maybe they are right on a lot of things. And that's why they start to micromanage. But if you actually look at the decisions that are being made, like especially as companies get bigger and bigger, that they s only see a small amount of the data, a small amount of the interactions with customers. And it's like they there's no way that they can know what's going on. And so if the people below them do not feel comfortable raising potential issues, then there's no way that they could actually use their wisdom to make a wise decision because they're operating in in partial dark.
Yes. And I kind of stumbled in that. I mean, at the uh I joined a company when I came out of my master's that was at the kind of hub of a level 11 industries. I mean, if you remember MapQuest back in the day or car navigation system before Google Maps, we were the map data behind that. And so, like MapQuest paid us a tenth of a cent every time every map that was displayed, or um, you know, two cents every time there was a route that was done. And uh, and so we, you know, we sold into all these industries, UPS logistics and everything used this. Well, our CEO had been the CFO as Disney as a whole, and the CEO or the president of Disney theme parks. And much of my career came, and he didn't realize this at the time, but um, he came to me and uh 10 other people, there was 11 total, with a thing that said, this he had done this at Disney. And he said, Here's the deal. I will help you in more ways than you could ever know with your career. But two things have to hold true. One is you nobody in this organization can ever know that I'm coming to you for information. And two, when I come to you for things, I will very rarely, if ever, ask you your opinion. You will only tell me like database facts about what's actually going on. And he was very clear about why, because he had realized, I mean, Disney was so much larger of an organization than ours was. I mean, we were like five, 500 people and grew to like 6,500, but he he knew that that bad information doesn't, it filters and doesn't go up, and only good information does. And he was like, I he was like, I'm really good at what I do, but if I don't know what's going on, I can't, I can't help make decisions or do strategy. And so he'd found a way to solve that by coming to some of us that were on the front lines. And so very quickly, it was me and only one other person that kind of kept that deal about not telling people, and he did help me with my career. But like that's when I started working that business case, servant leadership. I was like, Judson did this because he knew that he was an authoritative leader, our entire organization was, but he was like, he needed to know what was actually going on. So like he was at least humble to know that like he had no real idea what was going on unless he could kind of create an information network.
SPEAKER_00Wow. Wow. This is so fascinating. I I obviously I'm my own CEO here, chief empowerment officer. But like I've never been a CEO of a company like this before. And if people are out there listening who are, I would love for you to get definitely more into the servant leadership. Um, this this download basically that you got. Tell us more about you know what this would look like tangibly for somebody to really take hold of this.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. The um so so at the core level, for me, for from a servant leadership perspective, every person, no matter the size of the company, whether they're part-time or freelance-free, like they should be able to say, here's the out business outcomes that you're expecting of their role, why they're getting paid, and how those business outcomes will help the company reach their reach the company's overall business outcomes. If they can't do that, you're not a servant leader because you haven't actually exposed enough of what you're expecting of them for them to be able to offer any input or guide uh or put guidance in. Um, in terms of something like very different, not a big company. You mentioned I I did lawn care business in the past. So I'm in a neighborhood in North Atlantic uh in North Atlanta with um about 120 homes in it. Well, there's two homes in our neighborhood that I know that the way that they they got their uh the lawn care company is because the people that work for that company had been trained by the person who started it so that like how did he get business? He knew that, hey, when somebody when he saw balloons on somebody's uh mailbox, they just had a kid, adoption or whatnot. So he would go knock on the door and kind of give the card and say, Hey, look, I'm sure this is a busy time. I I just want to, you know, because he knew his he knew his numbers too. He knew it cost about a half a tank of gas and like 20 minutes to do your lawn. And so it was like, that's nothing. And so he basically like, here's a free, I'll do your lawn at some point in the next 60 to 90 days when when things are just too rough for you all. And so when he started to hire people, very different than most people on lawn care. Most people are they're hiring they're they're when they hire people to go out, they're they're like, they've got it down to like the minute that somebody should be there. And it's like, don't talk to neighbors, get in and out, maybe say hi to the homeowner if you're there. And when he hired people, he was like, Look, I'm not hiring you to mow lawns. I'm hiring you for people to be happy about us serving their property and for them to just like for for them to feel like this is taken off my plate. So the and if you do that, they will have to tell their friends about it. And so when he did that, he was like, Well, like that also means I would like you to do more business. And so he walked to the balloon thing. He said, Or look, like, are people dropping off? You know, this is the South. Are people dropping off like like casseroles and platters? Somebody probably passed away. Um, look for things like that to go engage. And then he started rewarding the people when they actually would take time, when when he would they would come back and go, here was the address for balloons, and I gave them the card, but you might want to follow up. So then he would do kind of like small spot things like here's a $25 gift card for that. That's what that's what being a servant leader would look like in practice at a small lawn care business, as a difference is you're not hiring people to mow lawns or clean gutters or pressure wash, you're hiring them to give an effortless experience to somebody and be a friendly face in the neighborhood.
SPEAKER_00That's huge. So and I'm I'm even thinking like you have this gift of sales, right?
SPEAKER_01Sales, operations. I tend to think in terms of systems.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So for somebody who's listening in, I mean, this kind of shifts the trajectory of how you could reach people, right? Um obviously you've got 120 people in the neighborhood, and how many different lawn mowing companies are trying to go for all the people?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, I mean, I think about it myself. Like, because I own a lawn care business and I have two littles at home. Like, I I I was able to take a symbatical and spend 18 months with just some very wealthy people, and like all of them basically said, like, my kids don't know what work looks like. Or they think that, you know, my kids are 20 now, and when they saw me on my laptop, I'm convinced that they thought it I was playing games. Like, that's how it processed to them. There, and so it's like I mow my own lawn. Do I have to? Absolutely not. But it's like I I had of the the three homes that I can see straight right close to mine, like only one of the neighbors has ever even kind of like, or the their their lawn care companies have ever even like kind of waved or said anything. Really? But there have been times that have coming up, come up in the past where it's like, yeah, things were too busy. Like it would have been if I had a phone number to call, I'd have called and did some business and how easy is it to roll into? Well, why don't you just keep coming back? But none of them have ever done that. And so it's a it's a stark reminder to me of like you people are struggling for business, but it's like there's so many ways that doesn't involve just Google Ads to grow your business. When you you change from like, I'm not just like building a roof or I'm not just doing this. My my why are people coming to me?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's that's there's the key, right? Why are people coming to me?
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00You've got me thinking. Anything else you want to
share about this realm of like, I just feel like there's something really beautiful on what you're sharing, just in a lawn care, right? So you just uh above and beyond is what I'm hearing, like going above and beyond.
SPEAKER_01Above and beyond, but but thinking through um what you want the experience to be when somebody is interacting with with with your company or your business. And so um the other way that I think about it too, and and so like this does get into like I'm learning all the time. I still get this wrong all the time, but it's like the um, so it's interacting with like how I how I raise my kids. But I I think about it from a customer support people uh standpoint. We've all had a problem, whether it's our cell phone or some software we're paying for, where you have a support ticket, and you could you could you'd bet a year's salary that you would know that those that that certain companies are being rewarded by how quickly they can close out tickets, not can they solve your problem. On the other hand, I I I this family office brought me into a company that we ended up selling um uh like 18 months later. And like the as soon as I came in, I was ahead of marketing, I took over that custom customer success team that did support. And they were floored because I was like, you will not close out tickets unless it is solved. Now, uh, and like if there's a bug, does not mean we are going to solve the bug, but that ticket could stay open for the next four years because when when when you all call back to that customer or they call in with something else, we need to be able to know that that issue is still outstanding. And yes, like like things could be optimal, but like you need to know that to interact with them. And and then we can see if those things stack up. And then it has been a ticket, uh, a team that was before was very much a close the ticket. They were being rated on like how many minutes, how many times did you have to touch a ticket before you could hit close and Zendesk? And so, like two very different approaches from how you deal with support for those customers. And so, like, I think about that that much more of like, I'm I'm not raising, you know, I'm I'm not raising kids, I'm I'm raising adults. And so if you ask my four-year-old right now, um, like like she doesn't want to do something, I can ask her. I was like, do we do hard things? And she'll like, we do hard things. Like my my six-year-old hit his head the other day getting out of the minivan. And before I could even turn back to see if he was okay, because I heard him say, ow, and uh he said, Ewers always get back up. Because there's just those certain core kind of things that you have that that you start to put in when you're thinking in the long term or wanting what you're wanting to get out of the the outcome.
SPEAKER_00I love that. You know, you're you're really you're you're a great dad. We just have to capture that. It's so good. Um support serve. Support and serve. What has been your like in all of the companies that you've worked alongside, which one has been the most memorable for you? And do you have any testimonials of people who were able to um be under your servant leadership?
SPEAKER_01I um yeah, we had sold a company to a public company, uh, a software company, and then a number of us became executives there. And uh so we we able to drastically expand uh as we moved to that new organization. And literally yesterday, you know, two days ago, I got a message from somebody that had been on that team that uh their comment was, um, God, what was it? It was like, um, hey, it and he said, Hey, I just want to know I'm I'm I'm praying for you. Um, I'm praying for you. And uh I do miss working with you with such a healthy and encouraging work environment. And so he he was one of the best, he was a product marketing manager for me. He was one of the best product marketing managers I've ever had. But then, like, for him to reach out to me, um, you know, as a as a former boss to send me that, both one, was encouraging and also then kind of breaks my heart because I'm like, Yep, I bet I I bet I can guess some of the things that's going on at the company you're at right now.
SPEAKER_00Wow. Well, what would you say to um somebody who's really wanting to, now that they've heard what you've shared here, um, maybe what would be the first step to really lean into the servant leadership? Like in in the fullness of it. They're like, I don't know if this is gonna work at the company I work at. How could they like integrate this into where they're at?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I I do have a 90-day plan that's more of a kind of like how to think through it. It's not necessarily so rigid on my website. Um, somebody searches for the business case for servant leadership. But like for me, the biggest part is like go to go to each person that works for you right now and ask them the that those questions, uh, or ask your kids uh if you want to do this at home. But it's like well, like at work, it's hey, what what outcome do you think that I'm expecting to get from you? And if it's and if it's hey, I'm you're wanting me to mow lawns, well, that's probably not the right answer. Um, in in that thing. If it's from your kids, it's like, well, you want me to knock in trouble or you want me to study hard? Well, well, no. Like they they need your your kids need to be able to answer back with a vision that you have given them about where you see where you see the man or the woman that they're going to grow up to be. And like that's why they're doing things. Like my my kids, since you know, the before they could talk, even when when we're harsh with them, and you have to be, it's like daddy only tells you things. My mom, uh my wife says this too, but I only tell you things for two reasons. I either tell you things to keep you safe or to help you become a good man or to become a good woman. Everything else is a falls under one of those two reasons. So, like, how much does that help if I'm having to really correct my six-year-old? In the moment, maybe not so much, but he also never questions then um what my motivation is behind something. Like we still fight, and my wife has to deal with that, you know, dad being much more strict and kind of coming in with that. But um, but but my son will still come back after he can he he gets out of that emotion of it and say, You only tell me things to keep me strong or to keep me safe or to help me become a good man. And then he's only now starting to ask those questions, and more so because we've started doing Trail Life USA about what do you mean by honorable man? What do you mean by a good man? Um, but still he's like the fact that he's starting to ask some of those questions, it's still like that's what being a servant leader looks like is coming back to do the people that you're over from like you are over people, your your kids, you are over people at work from an authority perspective. And so it at the end of the day, it's all an outcome-based thing. And if they don't know the outcomes, well, of course they're gonna miss the expectations and they're gonna like make up different stories. Like we're all humans, we make up really negative things about why people do things, unless you give them a reason about why you're interacting this way.
SPEAKER_00What I love too, like your even the example of your son, right? So you can cross that over into the workplace where people might be asking a boss a question, like for deeper revelation. You know, myself included, I I came out of corporate four years ago. And I am a, I want to know the deeper why behind why we're doing things. And I found that a lot of places I worked, um, it was just more of like, well, this is just what we do. And I'm like, that's not a good answer for me.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00Um, and same thing with children, like we can't just say, because I said so, right? So you're giving your children an opportunity. It's really giving people an ear, right? Having the the space, giving people space where you can listen, um, allow them to ask questions. You may not have all the answers at times, right? But it's really, man, I tell you, this the servant leadership really has ears to hear, wouldn't you say?
SPEAKER_01I very much so. And it's being transparent with people. I mean, a servant leader, like something would owe could always happen with, say, a company where like, you know, you might maybe you lose a client that's got you know 20, 20 to 30 percent of your revenue. And so unexpected and you weren't expecting it. So unexpectedly, maybe you have to fire people. But that's different than run running a company tight enough that it's like you know that you're getting down to there's not enough cash in the bank and you haven't been able to raise more money. And so unexpectedly, you tell people on a Thursday they're not getting their paychecks on Friday or in two weeks. And so um that it's it's part of being transparent with people, but it back to those outcomes. Like one of the another example that
comes out to me was my teams always knew what I was looking for from a monthly, quarterly, and kind of annual like outcome perspective. And so I had a woman who worked for me who her dad had worked with me at another company, and she had a major medical thing that came up that was going to like, do I go on disability um or not? Because she was not going to be able to work in her normal job and capacity. And but also knew that um there was I was hiring and there was a lot of different things. There was a lot of things on mine and other people's plates. And so I I knew her dad and was friends with her dad. And she walks out of the doctor's office. And what I didn't know this until later, um, actually in that call, she called me before she she was younger. She called me before she called her her dad and mom to tell them about what was going on because she she wanted to say, I'm I'm either gonna have to take disability, but I want to give you as much time as possible, because it was like six weeks out to this uh surgery. I want to give you as much time as possible to see, do I need to take disability or is there anything else that could happen? Well, because of that conversation, we started talking uh over the next uh two to three weeks. And I had so many things on my plate that she was capable of taking. And so I it kind of forced me to say, well, I can backfill your role. And so I handed off all the stuff and created a new role to her. She ended up getting promoted, was much more much better from a company perspective. If I look at three months, heck, especially six months than she had been before. But because she felt comfortable enough to call and say, this is going to impact the outcomes that you're wanting from me. And I know you're not just gonna fire me like some companies would.
SPEAKER_00Oh, wow. Oh, I just I I love this. I I I do want to ask one more question. So, you know, I I came out of corporate and I, you know, I'm I'm walking in a different role right now to help other people like walk out their calling and and really their their God God purpose, right? Um for me personally, working in corporate, I look back now and I and I rec I started recognizing that I'm an entrepreneur through and through. Um so in in your experience of working, you know, leading companies, watching people who were in roles that maybe were out of alignment. How would you speak to somebody who just feels like they know there's more, but they they want to do well in the role that they're in currently? How would you what would you say to them?
SPEAKER_01There's nothing wrong with doing a side hustle. Um, if for nothing else, then um also I find most entrepreneurs end up failing. Unfortunately, they the the numbers are very high, but it's it things always take longer and are more expensive than you can imagine it's gonna take. And so um you like you need to you need to be a Dave Ramsey person and cut down your expenses and save as much as possible because it's probably gonna, if you can even accomplish it, it's gonna take so much more. And so one, just knowing that helps to change, like, all right, you have to think differently. But the other side, I find a lot of times um those misalignments happen because your boss is not a servant leader, and that doesn't mean that you can't be. And so uh one of the ways that I had a mentor that walked me through it was his thing was you you only get six months of uh you know, he tells it to everybody, he said, you only get six months of having a bad boss and complaining about it. He was like, You can't complain after six months. And I was like, I don't really understand that. Like I've had some really bad bosses before, right? And he was like, he was like, even at like really senior roles, you can find another role in six months. And he was like, So if you're there six months, like if you're there for less than six months, you can complain about it, put it on your calendar um while you're looking for another job. And he was like, But especially, and he was a believer, and he said,
especially as a believer, your job is to make that person successful. And like theoretically the company, but he was like, Your job is to make them successful. Do they take credit for your work? Doesn't matter. Your job is to make them successful. And he was like, So, even for six months, especially if you've chosen to be there longer because you haven't gone and looked for anything else. If you walk in every day and say, Yeah, how can I help you? Or what are you trying to accomplish? And is he or she trying to get promoted, or they trying to do something different, and you start to approach it that way, they do not have to be a servant leader for you to be. But I also find like people will start to take notice of that as well. And you don't have to be a believer to follow that as well. It's helpful. Like being a servant leader does align with my faith, but but it doesn't at all like like could I could I be authoritative? Well, yeah, there's like I'm also told I triage very well. I'm not a servant leader if I'm having to triage in in a you know emergency situation or you know, I step into a company on fire. And so it's like it's gonna feel very different. And so I think that that's just the approach I think for somebody that who feels like there's a misalignment is a lot of times it's it it is just your boss, and like you you can go get another job, but as long as you're there, your job is to make them successful.
SPEAKER_00That's so good. I love it's it's such a flip it like. flip the script, right? So and and you can carry this into everything. Just really just looking everywhere you go. Like how can I serve you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. Well I mean it's that whole thing about a boss versus a leader. And it's like I I actually question if um you know it's one thing where you have to lead from authority in a very small time frame. But but if over long term it's like if if you're not a servant leader, I think you're probably much more of a manager. I mean good and and good leaders are always good followers. Like I I work for thankfully a really good uh servant leader right now at this uh holding company we have and we have a number of subsidiaries and so he leads that way but it's like he has no problem stepping along stepping into to to basically be a good follower and stuff like that for people. I mean we launched a new CRM as a this massive company that's growing he he had different feelings about what he wanted the user interface to look like because we were going to new industries and he didn't like anything that had been there before. So because now we have AI and vibe coding he like he started vibe coding stuff like at two o'clock in the morning. And so it's like he was acting as like a you know a mid-level you know designer um just so that he could communicate differently and and express his ideas. And he's the CEO of a company with a lot of people and he's been very successful before. And so it's like so I I think that that's part of like good really good leaders will always be good followers. And so well you know how you practice that well when you're an individual contributor and you have a bad boss and you be a really good follower right now to make them very successful.
SPEAKER_00So much goodness here. I love it. Well I always love to ask this question not to everybody but what is something that you feel the Lord is really stretching you into in this year that is beyond you you you have you're very confident in what you do and you're um very successful. Um and maybe you know what I want to ask you can I ask you this I'm gonna back it up a second successful what now that you've had this you know gone from authoritative to servant we were talking about this a little bit before we got started um successful as a believer in the in the business world like what does true success mean to you at the end of the day and then we'll ask you the stretching question. I didn't want to pass this this I almost forgot about this question.
SPEAKER_01Yeah many different things but what comes to mind for me is but my primary role is to raise is to raise really good adults and I won't actually know if that I I might not even necessarily know if that if that's happened during during my lifetime. I mean I was I was being mentored by a pastor named Crawford Laritz and um we we had this you know like three year thing where a group of us met in the mornings and somebody who was like their kids had just gone to college and kind of asked
them a question was like like hey like my kids have gone to college like we've been a good parent and he would he had some completely different question and Crawford just stops him. Crawford has a couple of sons one of which is a very well known pastor as well and Crawford's like my son's Brian's 40 I don't even know if I've done a good job yet not Crawford's been so successful. He's got a great marriage he's got the he's got a kid who's got all this stuff and Crawford like just lays into this guy and like my kid's 40 for all I know he's gonna go completely sideways because if I wasn't a great father in the past I still don't know if I've been successful. This guy who started asking questions was like I thought I was done. And and it was just such like so it's like I think for me it's like yeah it's to raise good adults and and I may not ever actually know in this lifetime whether or not I fully accomplished that. So it's like I'm gonna have to keep working at that.
SPEAKER_00So good well I think you're doing an amazing work in your family and in the work that you're doing. So thank you for sharing that. So back to stretching what's something that's stretching you this year that's uncomfortable I get to pick do you get uncomfortable I do get very uncomfortable at different things.
SPEAKER_01That question made me a little uncomfortable um no the um I I have no problem uh getting speaking opportunities to on the corporate side and uh like that's very clear it fits with me in my with my day job and um but more and more I think I kind of mentioned uh I've gotten more and more requests to to come speak on raising servant leaders and and and I don't know if all I'm qualified for that like my son and I like we're in trailer life USA like I'm on the leadership team for our local troupe trying to like figure that out as well like I don't know like my son's six I have no idea if like if I if what I'm saying is connecting and so that's really stretching me about um do I continue taking those because like that uh Pastor Crawford the Ritz just comes back to my mind. Is what I'm saying true or not um I don't I don't know I think it's coming from like you know time long wisdom but it uh could also just be my my current thoughts and so do I should I should I should I be speaking in a way where when you're on stage parents and these faith based organizations like people are giving you authority as opposed to they should just be assimilating information and weighing it against scripture.
SPEAKER_00Well I say go. Just show up and do the thing. There is so much wisdom that the Lord's given you and I believe as long as he is um stretching you into this area I was talking to somebody earlier today that a lot of times the most stretching areas that that seem so like they don't make sense on paper, you know, think of like Moses he's one of my favorite in the Bible um he was called to you know free the Israelites from Egypt and he's like um do you know that I have a speech impediment God's like yeah I actually created you. I just love that and at the end of the day like he looked at himself in the mirror and was like I think I don't know did they have mirrors back then maybe looked in the water um he's like yeah I I I guess I've I'm chosen and at the end of the day he he set you know how many free and and it's so beautiful to look at so many in the Bible who've um done things that are so outside of themselves.
Who who would you say is your Bible hero?
SPEAKER_01That's a really good question. Probably Saul just because it was such a massive change and I feel like I've had so much of that in my life yeah yeah that's so good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah Saul to Paul he's Paul's a good man. He did a lot of things from prison and we're still looking at all the the scripture that he wrote in the hardest of places right that's beautiful. Wow well thank you so much for sharing today how can people get a hold of you if they would like to touch base my personal website KurtU H L I R dot com and uh I'd I'd love feedback from anyone on that. So yes awesome and could you do one more thing for me? Um the Lord called me to do this for the one um obviously there's more listening in than one but if you could just keep in mind one person who's listening in today is there any other like words of wisdom that you'd want to share with them today and then would you pray us out?
SPEAKER_01Sure. Uh I say words of wisdom is you cannot do this alone. And so it's really hard especially today to have a small group of people around you and they do not need to be your friends. They just need to be uh people that you're transparent with and vice versa and that will speak into you things that you need to hear. So you have to do anything you can to find that group and and keep them so good.
SPEAKER_00Yes awesome yes well would you pray us out sure Lord uh thank you for uh for uh uh uh allotting this time for us and for the audience that's uh listened in and uh let the what we've said hopefully be wisdom to some of them and allow people to put it into action amen amen thank you so much well let me close with our anchoring verse for hope unlocked it's may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace and believing so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope and that's Romans 1513. So thank you Kurt for being a brave voice who's setting many free. We'll be back with another episode next week. Thanks listeners by
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