Welcome to the Hope Unlock Podcast. I'm your host, Kristen Kurtz, and I'm also the founder of New Wings Coaching. I help and empower wild-hearted and adventurous women of faith feeling caged and stuck, unlock their true purpose and potential, break free from limitations, and thrive with confidence, courage, and hope. If you're curious to learn more about coaching with me, head to newwinkscoaching.net and be sure to explore the show notes for ways to connect with me further. Get ready to dive in as we uncover empowering keys and insights in this episode. So tune in and let's unlock hope together. Welcome to the Hope Unlocked podcast. I'm Kristen Kurtz, your host. I pray this episode is like a holy IV of hope for your soul. Please help me welcome Joel Shagrin to the show today. I am so excited to have him on. We actually met at a local Minnesota Christian chamber uh event, and God really highlighted him to come on the show. And I I never want to, you know, bypass when people are highlighted. So I
know he has much to share. I I don't know him very well, but we've had um just some moments to talk before hitting record. And I know that he's gonna have so much goodness to share through his testimony and what he's walking in right now. So, Joel, before we get into that, would you just share a little bit about yourself?
SPEAKER_05Yeah. So I've been a follower of Christ um since high school. Um I had gone to the movie The Exorcist and I grew up in a funeral home. Oh, wow. I happened to be for real. Um my mom and dad owned a uh uh funeral home, and it was in an old mansion, and our home was on one half, and the funeral business was on the other side. And I was trying to be an agnostic, I don't know, uh just because uh you're in that rebellious age.
SPEAKER_04Sure.
SPEAKER_05And um I had been invited to go to the movie The Exorcist, and I came home, and somewhere between the kitchen and the third floor bedroom, which was in the attic, um, I gave my life to Christ. And I knew what I was doing from a standpoint that there were a few things that had come together. I had guided in the boundary waters uh during that era that I thought I was trying to be an agnostic, and that had been broken down, uh sitting under the stars and seeing wind and storms and all of the aurora borealis that you see so often in northern Minnesota. Um and so, and I was heading off to photography school, and I was gonna do all the college things, and so I knew that I wouldn't be doing that. So it was a real decision, a very deliberate one. And I wouldn't look back. So um I've been off to photography school and made a career of that.
SPEAKER_00It's amazing.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay, I have to go back a little bit because I feel like okay. You were how old when you went to go see this movie?
SPEAKER_05Uh 18.
SPEAKER_0018. Okay, so you go to see the the movie The Exorcist. Like what happened in the movie to like transform you? Because I have never heard an exorcist salvation story before.
SPEAKER_05It is a little unusual, but that's how God uses all sorts of things. Um but the path is Christ, right? Uh, but the methodology can be all sorts of things. And in my particular case, the Lord spoke to me through story and through movie.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_05And yeah, as a second grader, when we moved into the funeral home, uh, all the way through that time frame, I would see things um and experience darkness and in real ways in that funeral home. So um I had witches show up in my bedroom at second grade. Um so I was pretty familiar with the unseen, and I don't know why I was trying to rebel or trying to deny it as uh to be an agnostic, but I'm glad God called my heart in the way that he did. And so it the the movie made sense from a standpoint that Christ, if you look real hard, he was lifted up uh behind the scenes. Um and I knew that God had created uh just having spent three summers in the boundary waters. And I did have a friend who gave me a Bible about the time that I had graduated from high school who was a follower of Christ, and so I had some reference points for Christ. Uh, my parents had gone to a super traditional Methodist uh piece, and the gospel was somewhere in there, but not very, it wasn't overt. Uh, but so all of those things just kind of converged. But I knew that I was following the living God, yeah. Um, and that I hadn't made a commitment and I was shifting my identity from what I thought I was to I'm gonna be a follower of that guy. Uh he's remarkable, and we're in this passion holy week when we're recording this, and it's just every every year, it's just like oh my word. Uh this year my wife and I have spent quite a bit of time going through day by day um from the time of Lazarus, yeah, and just why was he in Jericho? And why did the crowd follow him in? And uh and he was anointed twice, once with oil, once six days ahead of time uh on the feet, and the other time uh two days ahead of time at Simon's house, and we don't know who the lady was who anointed his head. Yeah and so it's like, oh my goodness, it's just so so compelling to follow after Christ. Yeah, and it's been an interesting journey.
SPEAKER_00Um that's a good way to put it. I say that all the time. It's an interesting journey, it's a wild adventure. Would you agree?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, oh my goodness. Yeah, okay. Sometimes it's like, oh this is hard.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean, I was just having a conversation with somebody yesterday that, you know, I don't know about you, but I I don't know. Like, I wasn't called the easy. There's some of us that have maybe some harder paths that we walk through, and everybody walks through hard paths, but um, you know, I look at you and I'm like, oh, he's resilient. He's resilient, and there's a reason for that. Um, like you're almost a general that's kind of leading an army into something. So um, we were talking a little bit before we got started, and um, I can see you know where this, you know, this life has taken you, and there's a reason that you're able to kind of take a stand and keep standing. So, you know, you're you're 18, photography, school, um, believer, like what did that look like for you? I just want to make sure that we capture, you know, kind of the leading into um, you know, you you had a lot of visions growing up, and then you're able to take your you're able to see through the camera in a different, like a lens and get professional training, right?
SPEAKER_05Yep. Yep. Um, so during photography school, uh uh 20 years later, I'm hearing from a number of classmates that they've come to Christ because of that.
SPEAKER_04Really?
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Um, so that's been kind of fun. Um that time has played out. I had a few years back, a roommate. Um, I had did a project out in Colorado, and uh I had reached out to see if my roommate was uh if I could get a hold of him, and he says, Yeah, I want you to swing by. And um he had come to Christ and he was anxious to tell me all about that story. So uh it's interesting to know that sometimes you are a pleats uh seed planter and you don't have a clue, etc. etc. And in this case, I have a clue at least a little bit years later, and so that feels good. But um, but my real heart was in the world of advertising. Uh and I landed here in uh Minnesota because this is a hub, it's a global hub for I didn't know that. Yeah. Um during the late 80s and 90s and early 2000s, um, the world looked to Minneapolis uh and the ad agencies. And there's a ton of support systems behind that, such as printers and um some of the technical things that go into printing and production, et cetera. It's um and I happen to uh uh focus on the outdoor things, so Red Wing shoes and Polaris and the outdoor board motor companies, all of them. Um agriculture kinds of things. So I've really been able to marry my outdoor passion with my photography
passion, okay, and the passion of telling stories, and so I made a pretty good living at that. And then around 2006, um I got pushed off the cliff, so to speak.
SPEAKER_00Uh and 20 years ago.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah. Um, because my identity had really become what I was doing, um and and the career that I had uh quote-built. Um and the Lord was wanting me to refocus on him, and so he took me through a process of intimacy. Um and that was a journey. Uh and that led to uh a new identity, and and that has led to purpose. Okay, and the purpose and ever all of that has now been converging in the last uh nine years, I would say.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_05So um, and so nine years ago, my son was diagnosed under the um uh under the umbrella of FASD, which is fetal alcohol spectrum disorders. Um and one according to the CDC, one in seven women self-admit to drinking during pregnancy.
SPEAKER_00One in seven?
SPEAKER_05Uh-huh. So that's a minimum of 14% of our kiddos are impacted by alcohol. And our national health policy, uh I'm encouraging them to address this issue. Um the um because it's it's not being addressed. Um out of that 14%, the CDC currently says 5% uh prevalence, which is the behavioral side. The studies that I'm aware of done by the same uh epidemiologist uh advocates with their new report that between seven and nine percent of our population. So to give you a framework, uh autism is two point five to three percent. Um and opioids is one point six to one point eight percent prevalence.
SPEAKER_00Really?
SPEAKER_05Yeah. So the impact, I I advocate impact, um not just prevalence, because the impact of alcohol creates um over 400 uh coexisting issues, uh, comorbidities would be the technical term. And so it can be anxiety, depression, it can be lungs, it can be heart, liver, all of those kinds of things. It can be processing speed or a learning disorder. And because it's related to alcohol, uh, it's and because there's no physical trait that comes with our kiddos, um, there is a portion under the FAND FASD umbrella called FAS, which is a little more commonly known. Okay, and that's the physical aspects. Uh so alcohol has impacted the child enough that they have physical traits. Okay. Um, and but that makes up less than 10% of our less than 10%.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_05Less than 10% of that prevalence. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00What what might be some like physical traits like for those who, you know, maybe, you know, this maybe is new information for a lot of people.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. So um if you know what you're looking for, um you would see eyes that are a little more separated, um, uh lips that have a little different formation, but that could be anybody, right? And so it's really pretty trivial kinds of things. It would be more of uh a physical trait that you would just when you first see that person, you would just say
you would recognize internally that that you're gonna give grace to that person um in that regard, if that makes sense. My son and my daughter have both been impacted, and neither of them have any physical traits that you would know.
SPEAKER_03Okay, okay.
unknownYep.
SPEAKER_00Wow, wow. So um tell us a little bit more like this advocate impact. Um, that's incredible because you you're walking, like you've actually walked through this. And I I guess I would be kind of curious, had you ever, or even your wife, um, had either of you ever had any like struggles with alcohol in in your life or even generations past for you guys?
SPEAKER_05No, not at all. So that's amazing. The Lord, yeah, the Lord gave us, gave me a dream that we would unwrap this little boy. Um this was a night dream. And we unwrapped him, uh, took care of him, uh, and then got him around friends and family. And he was joined by a little girl.
SPEAKER_04Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. And in the dream, they were involved in a Shakespeare play uh as little kids. And then at the end of the dream, they were bringing a lot of attention to God.
SPEAKER_00Um and so this is one dream, like one night's dream. One night's dream.
SPEAKER_05Okay. Uh months later, we were at a conference that was not about adoption. Uh, and a lady tapped us on the shoulder out of the blue and said, Would you guys want to adopt?
SPEAKER_00Really? And and this was just a few months later.
SPEAKER_05Mm-hmm. Okay. And uh, and the conference was not on an adoption conference.
SPEAKER_00Um What was the conference about?
SPEAKER_05I I'm I'm a very spirit thing. Okay. The Holy Spirit. Yeah, okay. Perfect grounds. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll give a little context. The MC had asked for prayer for those with infertility. My wife and I had been married several years and plenty of passion and no medical reasons, but no kid.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_05Uh, and I thought that the dream related metaphorically to different parts of the business. Oh. Uh narcissic. Uh and this was in 2001 that I had the dream, and we were asked in 2002, uh, August, uh, first week end of August. And I blurted out yes, uh, pretty enthusiastic. Right away. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Like that.
SPEAKER_05Just no hesitation. And as I was saying the word yes, I remembered the dream.
SPEAKER_00Um so like it just came back like full, full-on movie back in the head.
SPEAKER_05Yep. Um, and so uh the lady who asked us uh to adopt, she was working with the birth mother. Um, and she had had a prodding earlier that summer to visit a high school friend and found out she was pregnant and started working with her. And uh our son Sam was born 10 weeks later, and we brought him home from the hospital. 10 weeks, 10 weeks, all legally, everything in place, and we weren't rushing. I was like, we've never been through this process, and wow, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So um okay, I'm gonna stop for a second. We gotta put pause on this. Back it up a second. You said yes right away. How about your wife? What when you said yes, like was it a double yes? What was that?
SPEAKER_05She did not hesitate. I just happened to be demonstrative that she tells me that I hollered it out.
SPEAKER_04Did you really? Wow.
SPEAKER_05I might have. I'm not gonna argue with that. So maybe she's a thousand percent on board.
SPEAKER_00Okay, and she knew about your dream, right?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, um, but both of us had put that aside. That was eight months earlier. Um and it wasn't forefront. Um, yeah, we weren't thinking about adoption. Uh, it wasn't on our mind.
We had gone to Mexico uh fairly often to help at a children's home, and of course we had conversations, but not anything formal or anything we moved towards. Um it wasn't anything official whatsoever. It was more of it would be nice to bring some of these kiddos home. Kind of those normal conversations that you might have when you're in proxy with kids that need help. Um, but not really any path to be able to do anything about that. And so it um she was a thousand percent on board.
SPEAKER_04Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_05That's really, really fun. Yeah. We met the birth mother a week later through the gal who tapped us on the shoulder. Uh and um wow. And it was really fascinating to watch the birth mother talk. Or still we have an open relationship. We have her over for her birthday.
SPEAKER_03Oh wow, that's amazing.
SPEAKER_05Uh yeah. So um uh not lately. She has MS and she's not doing good, but for a long time.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_05Uh my son is 23 now.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_05And probably until he was 18, she would come over for her birthday. Okay. Uh, but she's not been. My wife talks to her probably a couple times a year.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_05Um, so it's a pretty open relationship that way. Um my wife used to go to coffee with her because she needs a lot of support.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Uh and so anyway, it's uh it's a pretty cool story. Um one story that leads to another.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. And you know, I say that because I didn't invent the story. God did, right? Exactly.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I always like to say you can't make the stuff up. Yeah. Like you literally couldn't have conjured this story up, right?
SPEAKER_05Right, right. And so so we paid attention. Uh, but it took us 14 years to figure out what was going on, in particular with our son. And he's open, he's open to us talking about that. Um our home was a hundred percent chaos because we did not know what was going on, and we tried to uh to parent in traditional ways, such as you know, don't be disrespectful, and you move you move towards that, and it would escalate for three days. Um because you didn't know uh what was going on. The chaos in the home is now maybe one percent um from a parenting standpoint because you shift uh traditional parenting and traditional uh therapies do not work for our kids.
SPEAKER_01Really?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and so I had just produced a film that ran on the Hulu network, and I had two others in the works, and I just put those on hold to learn what is F A S D?
SPEAKER_04Right and how is
SPEAKER_05It's so prevalent and we don't know anything about it, and we're educated, and etc. etc.
SPEAKER_00So, how did you like how what was that first um knowing of like that's what it was? Was there somebody that you ended up meeting? Like, was there a connection? Was it like a you know, doctor? What did that look like for you guys to find out?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, so the starting point, there's a nonprofit uh in uh the Twin Cities area that specializes in this area.
SPEAKER_04Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_05And they're the ones who had done the uh diagnostic assessment. Um they had hired somebody third party, or they uh I think they have people on staff now, but at the time they were subcontracting that support. Um, and we got a diagnosis uh for our son, and um, you know, it was just confusing because he played top-tier soccer, he's smart, he's funny, he could do math in his head, he could do the first uh bracket of algebra uh in his head and be right. Um highly creative, funny, just a really and so, but he just couldn't regulate himself. And um and the list goes on of things that how he was impacted. So think think of FASD in this way. Um, if a person's intoxicated, whether it's a little or a lot, and the amount of alcohol makes a difference, right? And then the way alcohol impacts a person, some go into retreat, some go into you know, the fight mode, some uh, you know, you can't figure out a conversation, all sorts of things, right? Take that intoxication away, but leave the impact of the alcohol with the child at birth for life.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05And so that's why I really advocate that we need to look at not just the prevalence, but the impact. Um and so our daughter's been impacted, but she doesn't have the behaviors, she has other things that she deals with, um, such as sensory issues and processing speed and um and a few other things that are more serious, but not behavior.
SPEAKER_00Um how old is she?
SPEAKER_0521 and Mary and doing really well.
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh. So how did uh what is her name?
SPEAKER_05Matea.
SPEAKER_00Matea. And how did how did Matea come to be unwrapped? You know, it's going back to the dream. How did she go?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, so um, so because we're in an open relationship with the birth mother, uh, she called us two years later and said, um, and we're like, well, take the girl.
Um, and so they were both from the same birth mother.
SPEAKER_04Oh, wow. So there's planned.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, we helped deliver her.
SPEAKER_04You helped deliver her too?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah. Um yeah, so every time I turn, I have goosebumps just every time I turn around. It's just like it's just such a gift God's given us. Um and and a story, and in that, it's really um back around 2006, about the time that the business dropped off, I also got connected to anti-human trafficking efforts. Um and the passion just really rose up, and so justice has really been there. Uh it got woken up, so to speak, in 2006. And so it was in preparation, I think, for addressing this issue, because it is a huge, huge justice issue. Um and it is a major contributor to homelessness, and homelessness uh is a major contributor to human trafficking.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_05So oftentimes we talk about homelessness as a feeder to human trafficking, but what's feeding homelessness?
SPEAKER_00Right. What's the why behind that?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and it often is the mental uh health issues. And our kids, like if our son wasn't in our home, he would be written off as a bad behavior kid. Um if he didn't have the supports, uh, he has the supports and he knows um and quite aware of his condition. So um, so one thing has led to another, and in these last nine years, uh since his he was diagnosed when he was 14, um, that I just put everything on hold. And um my calendar invites are going off, and I uh all sorts of things. Uh heavens alarms. There you go. That's fine. Um so nine years ago, we just my wife and I just really pressed in. And so that starting point was with the nonprofit that gave us some resources and pointed us in the right direction. And I set out to learn how to parent him differently, and I set out to uh to do a documentary.
SPEAKER_00Oh, wow. Well, tell us the name of your um your nonprofit so we don't miss that.
SPEAKER_05Well, it's embraced movement and it's a DBA under the uh human trafficking one. Uh the board is like, well, of course, this is a no-brainer. It's we address human trafficking and its drivers. Yeah, mental health is one of those. So it's a so we have a board that oversees the nonprofit and um and the DBA uh doing business as um embraced movement. And so the documentary um I set out, and I now have probably a hundred hours of content.
SPEAKER_04Wow.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, so I could probably do two or three different documentaries, but they've become feeders of information for me. Uh I've learned from some of the world's leading uh epigenetics and um and kiddos like my son that I've interviewed and moms, etc.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Um and the project has become bigger than a documentary.
SPEAKER_00Um sounds like it.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, so because the chaos has gone from a hundred percent to less than one percent, and there's a very specific process for that to happen. It takes time, but it's called metacognition. Um, so we help our son think about his thoughts. Uh, are you sure that you want to do that rather than this? As opposed to get in his face and not do this and those kinds of things. Traditional parenting, right?
SPEAKER_04Yes, yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_05And um our therapists, we we were our son went through nine schools uh to be able to graduate.
SPEAKER_04Wow.
SPEAKER_05And that was supported by yep, and that was supported by I don't know how many aftercare programs and therapy sessions, and none of them nobody knew anything about this issue.
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh. Um that must have been so challenging for him too, just kind of the having to to move different schools. Was that a big challenge for him?
SPEAKER_05He's got some resilience too.
SPEAKER_00He does, okay.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, but yes, it was. Um, especially when a teacher at a Christian school's mode of operation is shame.
SPEAKER_03Uh-oh.
SPEAKER_05It's like, what? Um but um, but not none of the professionals that in the the school setting or the aftercare programs um knew anything about this condition. So it's its prevalence is I'll say on the rooftop. And but the awareness is in the basement um about this issue.
SPEAKER_00That is a great visual. I mean say it again.
SPEAKER_05Just yeah, so the prevalence of uh a prenatal alcohol exposure and its downstream uh uh impacts such as fetal alcohol spectrum disorder uh is on the roof, so to speak. Um and the awareness of it is in the basement.
SPEAKER_00Wow, wow.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So through like your um, you know, I'm just thinking of your documentary, have have you put out, you know, movies, have you put out um a lot of um obviously uh ways for people to be more aware? Because with your gifting of the writing and photography and the videography and just your own justice, you put that all together, whoo, you've gotta you've got to go back to the mansion. You have a mansion that will help bring people into that awareness and take that, you know, from the the rooftop to let's let's let's tear this thing down. And I don't know, this is what I'm imagining.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. So um it takes time and the the process for the documentary
is uh I'm about to revisit that. Um, but it's from a visual standpoint, it's kind of like I started in LA and went on a fundraising trip to New York and I took a quick left turn and went and went to San Francisco to write some books. Um that's kind of where things are at. But in the process, um, so the nonprofit, there's two business aspects. The nonprofit side of it for the documentary in particular is the embrace movement. Um and people can visit embracemovement.org and and learn a little bit about the project. Um but as I was working on fundraising tools for the documentary, um, one of the interviews that I did of a mother, yeah, uh, I covered that three different times because the story was pretty incredulous of what happened to her daughter, and her daughter wasn't involved in the uh situation.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_05Was a school story. And um, and I had a friend by the name of Jody kind of cheerlead me um as I was writing the story, you know, for her to say, think about, you know, help help me to see different things that I might need or want to add. And the intent was to write a narrative to go with the interviews. Um, and we call it the school story. And Jody was my cheerleader. And so you know the cheerleader. Yep, yep, yep. And a few a few months later, Jody called me and said, Hey Joel, do you mind if I snag the school story? I want to write a novel.
SPEAKER_00Wow.
SPEAKER_05And I said, Well, I'll be your cheerleader.
SPEAKER_00Oh, how incredible.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, so uh she's put it under the embrace movement banner, but she wrote it on her own, and I was one of uh several people who were cheerleaders. Um and that that is called embracing Zach. And um part of my cheerleading to her was no, don't have Zach. Zach is our kiddo with FASD, a fictional character, and I'll tell you more about this whole kind of crazy project here in a second. But I would call Jody, or we would talk daily, if um uh almost daily, and I would say, no, Jody, Zach can't be adopted. We're gonna throw the white Caucasians under the bus because you go on a vacation or you're at a wedding, and you may not even know that you're pregnant. And you drink, and uh, it is a really more common problem in the suburbs than we can realize. Um so I would give her that kind of cheerleading. Um and and she was interested in writing the novel because we thought we had a donor uh to do the um the documentary, and it was going to be based uh around one of her earlier books.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_05And there's another friend that I had invited into the team. His name is Justin Overlander, and Justin was one of the original producers for The Chosen. And I knew he had stepped away after four years. He had helped raise the money and produced the first two episodes, uh, first two seasons. And he lives here in the metro area, and I called him in and I said, Hey, let's go to coffee. Uh and he politely said no, but he took the school story.
SPEAKER_03He did.
SPEAKER_05He did his own research and he prayed about it. And then about a week later, he called back and said, I have to be a part of this.
SPEAKER_03Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. And so Justin, Jody, and Joel, the three J's, uh were meeting were meeting with this potential fundraiser um for the documentary. And uh it didn't work out for that book. Um it was too hard to translate it from Matt's story into uh a film.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_05And so when Jody was done with her draft, uh Justin got back involved and he said, I'd like to write the script for a feature film.
SPEAKER_04Really?
SPEAKER_05So we have a feature film called Embracing Zach based on the book uh called Embracing Zach.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_05And this year we're uh getting pretty serious about fundraising once again for that. So in the meantime, and part of that is because I've been pretty occupied writing a couple of books, uh, one for parents called Embracing Hope, and another one for churches called uh Embrace Neurodiversity. And we we take our Zach and three other fictional characters, our kiddos are super he and they don't need their identity revealed. So we use fictional names to tell real stories um based on all of that documentary content.
SPEAKER_04How incredible!
SPEAKER_05Yeah, so so Jody, that was part of what I was cheerleading her, and so in her novel, she has Zach Q or Quentin for uh to represent autism and Shay to represent um uh ADHD. She has a an adult with trauma, uh, and there's a reason for that. But for our caregiver book and for our church resource and the other books going forward, um our trauma character is a teenager by the name of Kennedy. So four teenagers, Zach for FASD, Q for Quentin, Shay for ADHD, and uh Kennedy for trauma. So two boys, two girls. And the reason we do that is our kiddos uh symptoms are often mistaken.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_05Uh research, in fact, tells us that uh nearly nine out of ten times our kids are misdiagnosed.
SPEAKER_00Nine out of ten?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's 78%, so almost nine out of ten. Um yep, they get missed. Um, and we could get in, I could nerd out uh on all of that. But the the context from a more practical is what are the behavioral symptoms? And they overlap. And so our audience is really not just for the FASD, but for autism and uh the other two profiles. So
and we start our caregiver book. Uh we have what Carl and the third person that's on the team is Carl. And Carl and I have worked together on Zoom almost daily since for the last three years. Um we have conferences and vacations and other schedules, but um, but I had called Carl because I was looking at how do I take the documentary content and how do as a business standpoint, how can I parcel it out for other products, such as um CEUs, which are continuing education units that teachers and others need. And I had called Carl because I knew he was um uh connected to help families with getting IEPs.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_05And I said, hey Carl, I've got these eight outlines for CEUs. Uh and we could weave interviews in between, goes, Yeah, I'd love to, but could you help me with building out a slide deck? Uh right now I'm teaching social workers in North Dakota. And I said, I'd be glad to. And in the midst of us getting college level sort of nerdy stuff together, yeah, yeah. Uh Carl and I kind of simultaneously, we should do a book. Um and I said, and I I I directed it towards parents because that's what from what I know.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And he he has uh kiddos with these four conditions, and our kids overlap in that. Our son is actually dual diagnosed uh with autism and FASD, and our and we're thankful for the autism. But I guarantee he does not have traditional autism. He has uh autism symptic symptoms because of the alcohol.
SPEAKER_04Sure.
SPEAKER_05That's why they that's why it gets missed a lot. Um so but it's official, and boy, does it ever help uh for him to get services, and we're super thankful for that. Um so it's easy for him when he's applying for a job to be able to say I have autism and I need supports, uh, and that's more connected in the workplace. Um so anyway, um Carl and I have been working together, and because of that book idea, it became a parent book, and that's what Embracing Hope is.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_05And Carl and I in our ideation were let's um let's cover 15 core conversations that happen a lot. Impulsivity, cause understanding cause and effect, the difference between IQ and abstract reasoning, or adaptive skills, excuse me. Uh adaptive skills in IQ. Um, our kiddos oftentimes don't get supports because their IQ is uh a half a point over or a point over.
SPEAKER_00Okay. But they're in our on the cusp.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Um in our case, our son is on the high end of IQ.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_05Um he he's on the high end of average, if not a little bit of beyond that. But his adaptive skills are less than 1%.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and that's where all of life comes in. He doesn't know if he's being taken advantage of, he doesn't understand abstract reasoning, um, cause and effect, and all sorts of things. And so very vulnerable, as we talked earlier about homelessness and human trafficking. Yeah. Um, so our we've got 15 core conversations, and how we weave our fictional stories together is we lead the chapter with a fictional story using one of our four kiddos.
SPEAKER_04Oh.
SPEAKER_05And then we provide a definition and we provide a little bit of what's worth noting. We put a framework around uh behavioral uh symptoms. Um and then we provide uh for the most part uh metacognition interventions. So it doesn't you don't need a professional per se. We don't say not to go get a professional, that would be crazy. Uh but our professionals, uh, by and large are not trained in uh By um metacognition. They're trained with what is called uh CBT or cognitive behavioral therapy. And that is super easy to code and to get uh get paid for therapy, but it it doesn't work for our kids, not without other things that go side by side with it or but metacognition does work, and the reason we did that is it works in our home. Uh for both both of your households, it really and um and it's uh evidence-based. Um and then it's something that somebody living in a rural area as a parent and may not be able to get to a professional.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_05Uh so it provides them that. And then we finish that uh fictional story using one of the interventions. Um so a parent can see how an adult worked with a kid. And these anecdotal stories are like a page at the beginning, and they aren't very long, they're just long enough to frame it. Yeah, we tell a personal story related to that topic, and then we provide two sections uh around the neuroscience.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_05Um, about we we highlight just three brain regions that might be impacting, say, impulse uh control. And it's not that that's anywhere complete, but it gets you started to be able to talk to a professional. Um, and then and we do it what we call kitchen table conversation style. Um it's not heavy research language. Um think of the amygdala, like you're a weather station you gotta predict the weather.
SPEAKER_00Right, and it helps like it helps us grab it and take it in rather than just you know, things that are way above our heads.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah. And um, and then we have another neuroscience section on
the brain uh domains. And so there's 10 brain domains uh that are pretty standardized, which are uh say executive function and memory and those kinds of things. And we provide all of those. Um these and here's the seven domains that are uh impacting impulse control. So here's three brain regions. If you want to know more, they'll eventually be available on the website. Um, and the brain domains, we really pretty much have to put them all there.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Uh, but we try to provide little tips in the midst of all that. So I'm sure there's over a hundred tips and there's over 70 interventions. Um so anyway, there's 15 chapters that are set up that way. The the sandwich chapters, chapter five and and nineteen, are a little bit different, particularly chapter 19, which is on sleep. Uh we combine the the trio of sleep, um, exercise, um, and uh food. So those can make a difference, right? And those are more bullet pointed sorts of interventions as opposed to story-based. So um, and then the church resource, uh, we weave our same kiddos in there, but it's a lot less dense. Okay. Um uh, but before I I go there with the church resource, the parent resource is really like a recipe book. It's it's it's dense in that it's 500 pages, okay. Uh, but it's not dense in the reading. So if a parent has an issue, say, with their child's transitions or impulse control or whatever, go to that chapter.
SPEAKER_00Okay. So there's like an index, and you can kind of like go to where you need to go.
SPEAKER_05Yep. And so it's it's like a half-hour read. Um it's not meant, it's intended to be a resource, not a novel.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. And we've done we've done uh a church resource because our kiddos get missed all the time um as well and misunderstood. And it's set up more for uh when you're working with Shay, here's how you channel her energy or focus, and here's Kennedy's trauma concerns. And so you might want to consider these kinds of things. It's not nearly as comprehensive, it's more of a reading resource.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, awareness, like bring awareness, right? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05And so we plan to do the same uh for other areas um uh in our community that miss it. Teacher, an educational resource uh we'd like to get done, and or a criminal justice one before the end of the year. So anyway, it's become this system, if you will, to address a systemic issue and think think of it technically. I think it could be it could fall under the category of what is called a transmedia storytelling project.
SPEAKER_04Wow.
SPEAKER_05So think Star Wars as a transmedia storytelling uh project.
SPEAKER_00You have books, movies, yeah, comics, there's animation so beyond, right?
SPEAKER_05Yep, and you've got some Obi-Wan Kenobi and all of those that you recognize. And so that's kind of what we're trying to do is unify um our fictional characters in that way. Um, Carl and I are also working on some technology stuff, and okay. Um, and we'll weave our kiddos into that in a different way.
SPEAKER_00Um so amazing. I I just want to like just capture for a moment, like you had this dream how many years ago, and this was God's dream for you. And now all these years later, um, you know, over a span of you know how many years here, like how does it feel to be spearheading all these projects? And you know, I want to also just encapsulate too, like, we can't do this alone. If you look at how many people you've come alongside with the triple J's and the double D or not the double Cs, the double C's. You've got the curl and the you know, we've got there's so much going on here that um we can't do this alone. So you're you're sitting here telling your story, and I know you said that you had you know goosebumps. And how does it feel to be sitting here right now and and just kind of look back over you know these these decades and and what he's brought you to and how you literally are the chosen one for this? Speaking of the chosen.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, um honored, humbled. Uh, my goodness. I I go for a lot of prayer walks and I take a lot of breaks.
SPEAKER_00Um that's so good.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You guys listen to that. I just want to make sure you capture that too. We need to do that.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I do a lot of journaling um and a lot of sitting, and something that I learned early on uh was Lord, what do you want me to know and what do you want me to do? And uh in that kind of a time, uh that kind of a framework. And recently a friend of mine pointed me, are you familiar with Jamie Winship?
SPEAKER_04Jamie Winship, yep.
SPEAKER_05And I'm like, no, tell me more.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05He's he's got a wonderful uh framework around the journey that I've gone through. But uh I've I've learned a lot of that from just things aren't going well. You get a car repair that's way beyond the budget because we don't have income anymore. Right. Um go ask dad. And and I would ask those types of questions. Um and and while I went out to ask a question on on since we're on that note, um, as an example, is like I did God will answer the why question if it's framed right. So I was on a prayer walk, just super discouraged that finances, etc. And we had this enormous car repair and did not have money to pay for it. And um, and I set out for a prayer walk to ask about that. What do you want me to know? What do you want me to do? And I'm along the Mississippi and it's winter and it's sub-zero, and I'm in my big park and hoodie, protected from the elements. And I stopped and and looked at a tree that had died, and it was probably three, four inches round, and it was laying at a 45. And I looked back at the Mississippi and these big sycamores, and I said, Lord, why did this tree die? It doubted its purpose.
SPEAKER_03Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_05I'm like, come again, yeah. But it wasn't a why, why am I going through this? It was an honest question about purpose. Uh I didn't know it. Um, but that went on for just I can't tell you it was an audible, but it might as well have been, right? It was just when you're in that place of listening and being quiet, God speaks. Yeah, absolutely does. And so I spend a lot of time uh journaling about what do you want me to know and what do you want me to do uh every day. And you know, it's how the um the ordering of the book that I mentioned where you start with story and all of those kinds came from that, right? Just yeah, he showed you. Yeah, yeah, and so uh we're co-labourers, and yeah, um I used to have absolute fun producing ad campaigns. Um I traveled the world, I was outdoors all the time, uh, it was action and and I feel like the fire of God is on me.
SPEAKER_03Oh my gosh, yeah. It's amazing.
SPEAKER_05Like this is at a whole nother level.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's it's beyond you. Like you can't do this without him. You know, as you were saying, like ad campaigns, I heard these are dad campaigns.
SPEAKER_05Uh it's one of the names that I think I've heard from the Lord that I'm a dad to many.
SPEAKER_00Um a father to many, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and so it's and that makes sense because you know, um, I'm connected to my son, and at 23, he still wants to hang out and uh he wants to fish, and so I am his dad. And he is at the home and he hasn't been kicked out and as many times as we wanted it to. It's like be gone uh from this home. Uh but no, he's uh he's a joy and uh a challenge for sure.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Uh but so is life. But it's you know, I wouldn't trade it because the challenge is really where I would say the anointing comes.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. The crushing, right?
SPEAKER_05Yeah. And I was fortunate enough to have a pastor early on when the business fell off that gave me some guidance that has stuck with me, and we have revisited and gone for other walks. Um that is like I'm hearing from the Lord. Yeah, my wife was, I know you're hearing from the Lord.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05But make sure that you're talking this through with some accountability.
SPEAKER_00Sure.
SPEAKER_05So you don't walk off. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00For sure. I mean, that's again, we need we need people who like can even, you know, prophetically see, like, you know, step into like, like, what do you want me to know about Joel as that person who's walking alongside you? Um, you know, I I often think of I I just love people who are willing to step into building crazy things. So one of my favorite Bible guys is Noah. And I often I I when I'm reading the Bible, I I almost see movies in my head. And the movie that I once was seeing was Noah sitting down with his wife for breakfast after 20 years of building this ark. And she's just like, what are you thinking? And I I think of like, well, Noah must have had some buddies. He must have had some buddy builders, his buddy like
encouragers who lifted his arms. Um, because he kept going. And it was 120 years of going into this place of what looked crazy, probably to everybody in the neighborhood, quote unquote. Right. So I love Noah. He's like my buddy, he keeps me going. Um, who would you say is like your Bible character that has kind of kept you going?
SPEAKER_05Um I parked in the old testament with those stories for years during this time. Um and depending on the season, it could have been Daniel, could have been Joseph, could have been I read David probably 10 times.
SPEAKER_04Sure.
SPEAKER_05Trying to, it's like, yeah. What was and that's probably where I started to learn what do you want me to know? And what do you want me to do? Because he would inquire of the Lord.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_05Uh, and um, it's just like, oh so God speaks and he says he always speaks, he doesn't change. Yeah, so I need to inquire of the Lord. Like, uh, what am I gonna do about this car repair? I'm scared, Lord, um, that we don't have the money. And he did speak to me. I was gonna ask me to turn out he said, Yeah, there'll be movement tonight, and you'll have everything you need by Monday or something like that. I was like, that was pretty specific. Yeah, and that's exactly what happened.
SPEAKER_00Okay, well, what like what happened then? Tell me, tell you happen to all exactly.
SPEAKER_05My wife's an artist, and that night somebody showed up and they wanted to buy an art piece from her. So we had some cash um that night, and I had done, I think, two projects in all of 2006, and they were both editorial. And editorial pays a fraction of what the advertising world does.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_05And uh one I had done um I forget um early September, and here we are in November, and I hadn't been paid.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_05And I had done another project for them uh probably three weeks earlier.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_05And uh those two checks came together on Monday. So one paid one on Monday was on Monday. So it it came, one was you know, three months behind, and the other was a week ahead.
SPEAKER_00And so it's like Yeah, and then it was like right on time, right?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and that's never happened in my career.
SPEAKER_00Um my gosh. What a testimony, though.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, so we learned a lot of things on how to listen to the Lord in that way. Um, but I'm super thankful for those that don't know Jamie and Donna Winship. They have a remarkable frame framework to put around the things that I could not have articulated. I just knew that I had gone through intimacy that led to identity, that led to purpose, right?
SPEAKER_04Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_05Uh it's beautiful. Yeah, and so this project, I do, I really feel like the fire of God is on me. Yeah, because I just wake up and I'm passionate about it and I don't feel rushed in it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05When I do, uh I go for prayer walks anyway, but I feel like I will purposely shut down if I get acres.
SPEAKER_00So good. Well, I um we're gonna wrap up. I feel like I'll have to have you back on again when you know the more continues to, you know, it's like these launchings happening continue to launch. Um, the question I have for you, because you know, I don't know who's gonna listen to this,
but I I'm a huge connector. And I believe through you sharing your story that there's gonna be connections that'll come to you if that's needed. So what does Joel need? How can somebody come alongside you to help you? I like to say, birth these things. Um, what would that look like? You know, what what is your request?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, thank you. Um, on an immediate sort of advocacy side, I would love to connect with uh Robert Kennedy if somebody has a connection that way.
SPEAKER_00I was thinking about him.
SPEAKER_05Um our national health policy does not have mention of prenatal alcohol exposure, and there's over 428, uh, probably closer to 450. I have a PDF in our nerdiness on every one of them that are related to uh the downstream impact of prenatal alcohol exposure. And I'm not trying to question them. It's like can it's more of an encouragement and can we get a recognition of prenatal alcohol exposure um so that we can address it appropriately? The chaos is out of control in our country. And if it happened in our home, it can happen in other people's homes, and I want to help with that. Um, you know, on a fundraising side for the feature film, it's such a remarkably prevalent issue. Um, and it's it's not just our four characters will be in the feature film as well. So it's not just uh fetal alcohol, but the awareness really needs to happen. And the story that Justin uh scripted is like the book, it's just a really warm underdog story that wins the day. And it would be really an honor to work with somebody that could see that vision, and that can be done through a donation or an investment. Uh, the nonprofits involved in in that feature film. And then probably on a little bit more day-to-day kinds of things, Carl and I could use um some uh he's really good with tech, and I'm really good with story, but really what we need is uh somebody to help us um in the context of just developing the business um with with the apps, with the books, with the speaking, those kinds of things. Um so uh those three things would be really awesome. Um if people want to reach out and pray, uh I do have kind of a semi-almost monthly prayer letter um just about the project. Um and that's actually on my to-do list today.
SPEAKER_00So Okay. Wow. Well, thank you for sharing. You know, if if listeners, if you're hearing him, you know, some share some of these things and your heart is getting nudged and you're maybe feeling that fire, please reach out to Joel. Um, so with that being said, what would be the best ways to to touch base with you and contact you?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I will um I suppose your show notes have um that. So it would be contact at embracing hopebebook.com. Uh at this moment, that would be the um the email.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_05And the website is embracing neurodiversity.com. Um and uh there's a dash between embracing and neurodiversity.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_05That that would be more connected to um the four process. Side of things.
SPEAKER_02And okay.
SPEAKER_05Um, you can go to so I'll give you three URLs. So there's embraced movement.org, and they can fill out a form and contact me that way. You can go to embracingzac.com. That's about the movie.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_05And there's a link, I think, under Jody's bio to the book, to the novel.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_05But that would give you a context for what we're doing with the feature film. And I believe that there's a contact there.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_05And then embracing neurodiversity.com with a dash between the two words.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_05Um, and there's definitely we're building the website. Uh, so uh the other two are are finished. Um we should be finished here by the time this is released with wonderful uh at least the basics of the website.
SPEAKER_00So love it. Well, you're you're on the right track here and just thankful for the work that you're doing and your your heart to keep on keeping on. Um as we close today, I want you to think of, you know, I shared that I do this for the one, if you would think of that one who's listening in today. Any other words of um encouragement or just you know, drop of wisdom that you want to leave with this one today? And then would you pray us
out?
SPEAKER_05Yeah. So um why don't I do that in the prayer? Um so Lord, those that are discouraged and not knowing what's going on with a loved one, with a cousin, a neighbor, a friend, I pray that uh these would be practical steps that they would uh that they can find hope with. Um and to really know that God is a God who listens. Uh when we ask, he really does answer in really practical ways. And so we I would pray that you would encourage those that are struggling to hear, just to put the doubt aside and to uh really press in that God wants to talk to me. He tells us that he lavishes his love. And so we thank you, God, that you lavish your love upon us and that you do, in fact, want us to walk in our purpose. And I pray that those that are struggling in that area that they would find uh a strong footing uh to be able to uh walk in their purpose and their identity in Christ's name. Amen.
SPEAKER_00Amen. Well, thank you, Joel, so much for coming on and thank you for being such a brave voice who's setting so many free. I'm going to close with the hope unlocked anchoring verse, which is may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope. And that's Romans 15, 13. So thank you again. We will definitely have to have you back on if you're up for that. And I will be back with another episode next week. Thanks, listeners. Thank you, Joel.
SPEAKER_05Thank you.