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to the Hope and Lucked Podcast. I'm Kristen Kurtz, your host. I pray this episode is like a holy IV of hope for your soul. Please help me welcome Michael and Marty Betts to the show. I'm so excited to have them here today. I love when people connect other people as a connector. I have a friend named Sherry who connected us. And I cannot wait for these two. We've already chatted a little bit, and I'm like, this is going to be good. This is going to be really good. So before we get into your story and where the Lord has you today, could you just share a little bit about yourself? Selves.
SPEAKER_02Plural. My lovely wife first.
SPEAKER_03Michael and I have been married 13 years. And about four months after we got married, his business fell apart and things went downhill from there.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_01We'll get into that in a couple of years.
SPEAKER_02And I'm her husband, Michael, who promised her that life would never be boring. And I have absolutely lived up to that promise for the last 13 years.
SPEAKER_03But he had no idea.
SPEAKER_02That's right. That's right. But honored to be here, super excited. And it's important for us to share our stories because it says in Revelation that the way we overcome the enemy is by the blood of the Lamb and the Word of our testimony. And boy, we we we definitely have one of those.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, I can't wait to hear more. 13 years. Promise for things not to be boring.
SPEAKER_02Tell us more about how did you meet for we uh I was a businessman and and was putting a business in a location that was close to where where she lived.
And I wound up meeting her and and you know, fell in love with her, and we enjoyed a great relationship. And I my business was just exploding. And and she she liked it, but she didn't, you know, because I was always on, I was always in business. And anyways, what wound up happening is we I proposed to her on TV and and you know, wanted everybody in the world to know that I had proposed to her. And uh I found out four years later that she really didn't like that. She had pictured that it was going to be something, you know, really special and romantic.
SPEAKER_03Oh and romantic.
SPEAKER_02So, you know, apparently I'm a grandiose kind of guy. I wanted the world to know. But but four months after we got married, uh, my business partners who I had a bit of a tumultuous relationship with, I was the founder of the business. They accused me of embezzlement. And they got an attorney, they changed the locks, they voted me out. And this was four months after we got married. And literally a week before this, I was sitting on the edge of the bed and I looked at my wife and I said, Just pinch me. I said, Does life get any better than this? I I finally found the woman of my dreams that I'm equally yoked to. Business is exploding, we are reaching people for Christ all the time. I mean, does it get any better than this?
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02So, anyways, a week later, it all flipped on its ear. And and, you know, we can obviously turn this into a four-part hallmark episode, but but to shorten it quickly, they accused me of embezzlement. We got attorneys, they got attorneys. In a lot of ways, you know, when you look at Elijah, the whole Jezebel spirit thing, and he was struck with fear and he fled. I was just struck with a spirit of fear. And I think what most of it was is I was mortified at what everybody in the world was going to think of me, that all these relationships that I had were now crumbling. And and so, anyways, and we wound up over the next couple of years losing everything. We lost everything. And and it just it began a uh it began a journey for us that we thought we'd kind of hit rock bottom. And and then there was a knock at the door, and it was the FBI, and this lady that had really kind of the whole thing, led the whole charge on this with a lot of falsehoods about us. She had been calling the FBI every month, saying that I had stolen millions, I had stolen millions. And so what wound up happening is we went through that process now for another year. An interesting quick side note is we had we had a break between when we lost
everything for about 18 months, and my dad, we took care of him, he passed away, moved him in with us. Yeah, four days later, five days later, her dad passed away. And and then it was about three months after that that the knock at the door, but we were grateful that our parents didn't have to go through watching and wondering all of this, and we continue to think, you know, you always think, you know, it surely, Lord, it couldn't get any worse than this. I didn't know there were three floors underneath the elevator. I thought we were on the bottom floor, but we had a whole long way to go. You have a basement, that's it, and a root cellar, and uh, but but, anyways, we we didn't know any better, so we invited the FBI in and we let them record and we just poured our hearts out for two hours. Don't do that, and it's so and so not that we regret telling our the truth in our story, but but by the time you get investigated, they're kind of looking how to justify the investigation.
SPEAKER_03We're so tired of being quiet. Every all the attorneys were saying, Don't say anything, don't tell anybody to make sure to talk to anyone. Yeah, and we were just glad to be able to tell our side the story for once, yeah, thinking he was on our side.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so but I I do want to say that that you know, we went through the process and then we get called in, you know, to go before an assistant U.S. attorney. And I'm just telling you, nobody wakes up and says, gee, Lord, on my resume someday, I want to be accused of financial crime. It just, but you just wind up there, and it can happen to anybody. And I that is one thing I can tell you. And again, let me make sure I'm I'm being very clear. We grew so fast that I was making quick decisions in gray areas, not bad areas, but I was not living so above reproach with so many people. I was hiring people fast, and I think I really just opened myself up to accusations. And because I think people looked and went, man, we're just making so much money. Where is all of it? And it was going out the door in marketing and and all the different stuff. But, anyways, okay. So we went in.
SPEAKER_00I asked a couple questions really quick. Can you share what kind of business this was?
SPEAKER_02It was a medical, let me say it was a medical business. Yeah, only because let me say this, because it's just it's it was so devastating at the time. And and you really, you know, especially as a leader, I had I had 28 employees, and it just was a bomb. It was an assassination bomb that took us out, and so we don't talk about it a lot, like even to telling you today, we're saying details publicly that we typically don't say, but we just felt like we're supposed to really share today. And and it's not to hide anything, but it just it's one of those things of God used it to knock my sandcastles down, and and I was so worried about what people thought about me. I was a people pleaser, I was a voracious businessman. If you said I have a billion dollars, let's start an airline, I would have said, Okay, let's do it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and my wife is not hardwired. Yeah, you've always had that entrepreneurial. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, big risk taker. Used to be a little bit of a risk taker now, but boy.
SPEAKER_00So big risk taker, yeah, Marty, maybe not as much. No, absolutely not. I've always played it safe. Okay. So I I gotta ask, you got married, engaged through the TV.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00How long were you dating before this? Two years.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Two years. Okay. So I'm just kind of like timeling it here because things shifted very quickly after you got married. And four months into this, I would love to hear, and I want you to keep going with the the the testimony, of course, but how did you as a couple like how did you walk through this together being so newly married?
SPEAKER_02Like before you go too, you need to ask her what the Lord shared with her when we were dating.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Yeah. What did the Lord share with you when you were dating?
SPEAKER_02Good question.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. I came up with that one myself. I'm just kidding.
SPEAKER_03I had been single for so long that I was very reluctant to commit to a relationship. I had had just bad relationships. And so I was like, God, you're gonna have to really prove to me that this is the man. So one day I'm sitting there and I hear this voice in my head that says he's gonna go through something he's gonna need you for, you know, and you kind of go, What's that? You know, what do you mean? And I just kind of like Mary, put it in my heart and pondered it. And then when all this went down, I was like, Oh, that's what you were talking about.
SPEAKER_02Thank you, Lord. Thank you, Jesus.
SPEAKER_00Did the you should be here if he hadn't told her that? Did you remember that pretty quick into it?
SPEAKER_01Oh, yes.
SPEAKER_00Oh, you did. And did you know this, Michael? Did you know? Not until after. Okay, so the Lord was preparing you for this moment. Okay, okay. I just had to ask a couple more questions here as well.
SPEAKER_02Well, and the other side is too, is because we had taken, you know, almost two years in dating and that, and we were very equally yoked spiritually. I think one of the toughest parts was we would have people, you know, you're a good woman, Marty, for stand with him. And you know what this was going on. And I mean, would when people would say that to me with her, I'm like, what do you say to that? Thank you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like what did you say? I'm curious.
SPEAKER_02It it just there was a lot of for me, there was a lot of PTSD. And what's funny about saying that is I would have never thought I could could do that, but but it just when everything changes so dramatically, you're and especially when you're prideful man, I wasn't a mean, prideful man, but I was still prideful, and you lose everything and you're embarrassed. It it's it's really, really hard to to pick up your identity at that point. And uh, so when you have people telling you that you're just lucky your wife stayed with you, you know, in my mind, I'm thinking, so would you not stay with your husband? You know, I wanted to look at him and be like, so if this happened to him, you'd bail.
SPEAKER_01Right, right.
SPEAKER_02But also, I think if if this business had kept going on and turned into a $50 million business, I'm not sure Marty would have wanted to stay with me because it was just business 24-7 every day.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so you never really turned off at all.
SPEAKER_02No, not not bad.
SPEAKER_00He didn't know how to, yeah. He didn't know how to. Okay.
SPEAKER_02So apparently a good and loving God knew that he needed to knock it all down.
SPEAKER_00But here's where we had an intervention of sorts that you could never have planned, right?
SPEAKER_02That's right. But here's where we take a left turn, okay, and buckle up.
That's right. So the the FBI people, they brought us in for a meeting, and they had two forensic FBI uh accounts on this side, and they had two SEC accounts on this side, which are the security and exchange commission people. Okay, and so we started on this side, and they go through the whole thing, and they're like, We're not pursuing any of this. And all the accusations that were made, and I'm like, Can we put that on a billboard? That's amazing. But then the assistant U.S. attorney, she goes, but here's where we got you, which was an interesting statement. You're like, What? And so she had the SEC guys go and they said, Because you had partnership issues and you did not disclose it to $150,000 worth of investment, that's a felony. And because you took $8,400 of that $150,000 investment as a reimbursement for construction costs that you fronted, but you didn't tell these people that's another felony. And then she pulled out a prison chart. You want to talk about freaking out when you're sitting at a table and there's a prison chart. And she's like, You've been calling it.
SPEAKER_03Prison chart? Oh, yeah. Yeah, you get this many years for ratings, this many years for that, this many years for this.
SPEAKER_02And we're thinking, worst case scenario. Literally at that point, I was thinking, how do I deal with a felony on my resume? That's where my mind's at with a felony on my resume. What does that mean? Like, what does it mean to me? Can I vote? Like, what does this mean? And we'd already lost everything. And the $150,000 that was owed, I had already taken responsibility as a managing partner to pay that back myself. So we're sitting at a table where everything had already long been.
SPEAKER_01You're thinking you're a clear. Yes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And and because again, I had five partners, but as the managing partner, the buck fell on me, and I had to take the full brunt of the responsibility. So here's where we go from this. They say we're not going to contest probation, but the judge will make up their mind. I got sentenced to 27 months in federal prison. Yep. Yep.
SPEAKER_03We thought he'd get probation. This was the first-time offense, and we really thought he would get probation.
SPEAKER_02Had never, never, ever been in trouble. And so we no, and they so she the judge gave me 77 days before I had to report to prison. We were so stunned that we couldn't even find our way home from the the the court that day.
SPEAKER_03We and we had been in that, we had been that had been our hometown, yeah.
SPEAKER_02We we had forever. You could just tell the brain was just so we uh want you to say what Pastor Steve said to us before we went there that day.
SPEAKER_03When we went into courtroom, our pastor was there with us, of course, and he said the the judge does not have the power to put you in jail. He said, But you know who does. And if he does, there's so at that point in my mind, it was like, okay, whatever happens here, we need to embrace this and we need to, you know, figure out how we're gonna work how we're going to deal with this. Because if it happens, then it's it's God. Yeah, you know. So I think that was a good thing, the best thing he could have said to us, yeah, honestly.
SPEAKER_02And the Lord in his wisdom too. Yeah, the Lord in his wisdom too. We had devastation with losing the the company, and then there was a year where it seemed like stuff calmed down a little bit. There'd been a bunch of legal junk in that, but then we had the season with my dad where we almost rested for a bit, and then the knock at the
door, and then the next round, and so by this point, we're three years down the line from when all this happened, you know, where we're doing the court thing. And five years, yeah. Maybe it was a seven-year process from the yeah. Yeah, but it was 13, but then 16 is when I went to, so that's three years. So, anyways, but the point is is you started realizing, you know what, Lord, you can just do whatever you want. And when she said we decided to embrace it, that's where embracing your story came from, or ministry. Because the value in in prison, it probably took me six months to fully, fully, fully grasp everything that the Lord had for me in this. You know, there was a breaking of of my pride and my people pleasing and my worried about what people think and all this bit. But but then talk about how how I handled prison and what that did for you.
SPEAKER_03The thing about it was, of course, I was very upset. I was very angry at him because I felt like he did not protect us. Yeah, you know, he lived in gray areas, he did things that were questionable. You know, people could look at that and go, you know, I don't know about that. And so I was very angry about that. But then I was watching how God was using him in prison. God was allowing him to speak to into the lives of many, many men in there, and I could see that God had a purpose for it, so I couldn't even be angry anymore.
SPEAKER_02And and while we lost everything, people were dropping off envelopes to help Marty and I at church. Like loads of money. It's like when we looked back 21 months later, it was like $21,000 that people had dropped off anonymously.
SPEAKER_03My gosh. Documented it on a calendar every time somebody gave me money. So I, you know, it was so good.
SPEAKER_00Oh, seriously. I think people need to I want to stop there for a second because you know, listeners, like you may not be walking through this exactly, but I like you know, for people every single day, capture the miracles, yes, write them down. I mean, if you're walking through like trouble financially, like I have, like it's a it's a real thing. It is when I would find a dime, I would take a picture of it and I would put it in my little like note journal thing because it would sometimes it'd be like three or four dimes in a day, and it's like okay, I see you, yeah, you know. So capturing you were capturing that on your calendar. You can now look back. I'm sure do you still have these calendars? Yes.
SPEAKER_03And one thing God revealed to me during this time was that when some it was hard for me to accept anything, gifts from people, you know, because I'd been single for so long and it was so independent that I didn't need anybody. But when people started giving me money and stuff, God said, you know, this is me trying to bless you, but I'm also working in other people's lives and I'm trying to see if they'll be obedient because I had one guy, and this is a great story because he sent me a check for $500 and he wrote on the card, he said, This is between me, you, and the Holy Spirit. And so I went to him at church on Sunday. I said, Thank you so much. You don't know what that means to me. And he said, Oh, no, no, no, no, no, don't thank me. He said, Thank the Holy Spirit. He said, When God told me I was to give you $500, I said, You want me to do what? He said, It took me three days to write that check. And I just busted out laughing. But God's testing other people, so you rob others of a blessing when you do not accept what they're trying to do for you.
SPEAKER_01Yep, so good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it is. I've walked through that myself. Yeah, it's hard. Yeah, it is the receiving, right? Especially it is.
SPEAKER_02Are you more of a given? You're a giver.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. I'm a giver.
SPEAKER_02So me too.
SPEAKER_00It's like, I'm sorry. Oh, you know, I I can't, I can't, I can't accept that. It's like, well, imagine somebody's trying to give you something, and then you're like, And then some wonderful, wonderful older person says, you know, you're being prideful.
SPEAKER_02And it's like, I am not.
SPEAKER_01I know.
SPEAKER_02But let me let me say this too. And in case, in case someone right now has to bail, they're not going to finish this podcast out. One of the things they need to know, because we'll talk more about this towards the end. But when you give it to the Lord, when you truly hand over all the pain and all the journey, and you just say, Okay, Lord, we're here. We've lost everything. It's all you. What do you want? He shows up in ways that you only see. We call it the gift of devastation, but there's a joke, but there's like a t-shirt you get when you're in the midst of total loss and total pain, and you only get an audience with Jesus in an intimacy in those moments that no one else gets to if they don't have that type of a thing. And it's not a oh, you know, if you want the t-shirt, it's it comes at a great cost. But but it's just there's a level of his intimacy and his grace and his peace when you're just standing against all odds and you don't know what's going to happen. And that is the most exciting thing. It is the most awesome thing about our God that he's involved in every piece. So even if you're going through some right now and you cannot see a way out, I promise you, he sees a way out. He's just waiting for you to get on board.
SPEAKER_03And another thing God revealed to me was that being a Christian is an adventure. I used to say it's a joke, but it's an adventure because if you think about an adventure, it's it's a wild ride. You have the ups, you have the downs, you have the good times, you have the bad times. It's
exciting, it's terrifying at times, but in the end, God wins.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, I call it a wild adventure. People are like, How are things going? I'm like, Well, I'm still on a wild adventure. That's right. Yeah, and we always say embrace the adventure God has.
SPEAKER_03That's right.
SPEAKER_00I love that. Well, take us back into prison. Um, I feel like we need to hear hear a little bit more of your experience there and and what came out of prison.
SPEAKER_02Well, what's interesting is so, and what I love is I have never been in handcuffs. I've never been behind bars. I went to a federal prison camp, which you know, you can say, Oh, it must have been easy. No, here's the deal the real penalty of prison, you are separated from everybody that you know and love. You only get to talk on your phone to your wife. For 10 minutes a day, that is the penalty. And then you know, it's like being in a penalty box. And the the real thing is she had to walk our life out, not me. In a sense, prison was easier because she had to lose our home and pack everything up. She had to move in with my stepdaughter and our triplet grandkids. And you know, which wound up being a blessing. But she was doing everything she could to just even try to hang on to where we were living. And the Lord, you know, we kept thinking, surely you're going to do that, Lord. And he's like, nope. But looking back now with where we're at, if we would have kept that home, that would have kept us there. We would never be on the adventure we're on right now. Like we can look back at every single thing that we thought was so horrible at the time. And it was a profound stepping stone for where he was trying to take us. But let me share with you real quick. So prison, what it wound up being as a I was a you know, 55-year-old man, I'm 62 now. And I just realized that I was in this, there were 230 guys in that prison. And I'll bet you I met with five to 10 guys a day, mentoring and counseling them, helping guys with their marriage, helping guys because they just didn't have fathers. You know, a lot of them didn't. And I became the I became the the wise Christian. I came brother Mike, the guy you could go talk to when there were problems. And and it was literally the best ministry I had ever experienced in my entire life. And then all of a sudden you're like, Lord, I had to come here to do this. And you start you start appreciating the journey. But again, you know, here my wife's out there trying to save our lives. And I'm in just waking up going, okay, Lord, who do you want me to talk to? What do I need to do? And and it taught me how to walk out my faith in a way that I would have never imagined. And it just, and we had we sat in little plastic seats. She could visit me like three times a month, wound up being like on a Saturday, she'd come for four or five hours, and we'd sit on plastic seats and we had to eat out of a vending machine. She had to bring quarters in, and and you could hold hands, but would you that's it?
SPEAKER_03Very disheartening on the holidays. It just made you want to sit there and cry because Thanksgiving and Christmas, you're sitting there eating out of a vending machine, you know.
SPEAKER_02But it but we almost rediscovered each other because you're just sitting and just talking and hanging out, and and you're, you know, I'm living my life and I'm hearing about her life and and it's our life. And it just was fascinating. But it it really is this all gets down to trust. And when I talk about that six-month period, he was removing things, his thumb was very much on my back because it took me a long time to realize I was mad for what I went to prison for because I didn't do it. But what he did reveal was how I put her at risk with quick decisions, taking on partners that I shouldn't have been partners with, creating all these things, going for the score, you know, of like, yeah, let's do that contract, and then we'll figure out how to make it work later. And all of those things, like, I am so grateful that he killed that side of me in prison.
SPEAKER_00Like you you look back and you're like, I am a new creation.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but at the same level, we're still the way we are, but now all of my giftings I use for him in ministry. You know what I mean? It's not about the money, it's not about chasing anything, it's just about okay, Lord. But even like these big worship events, all the skills that I still had as a business guy, we promote, I'll book a place, we bring people in, but it's all for him. And I'm operating in my giftings at his command. And I think the biggest thing, too, was this. And this is huge if anybody hears this, but I spent my life doing things for him. And that led me to prison. I now spend my life doing things with him. I just want to know what he wants me to do, and I'll do it before I was deciding what to do and saying, Lord bless this. I'm doing this for you, Lord. And it's a totally two different ways of doing it.
SPEAKER_00That's so good. I I feel like we need to go deeper into that, but I do want to like kick it back a little bit for a second. Last day in prison.
SPEAKER_02Believe it or not, it was it was it was so humbling because I had about 40 guys with tears in their eyes coming up and talking about the impact that I'd had in their life. And I just really I'm telling it's an amazing, amazing time. And you know, and it was just for a season. And and I do want to just say that I mean, I'm sorry, but prison's cruel, it's sadistic, it's there's nothing in prison that is meant to regenerate men and make them successful. It is to hurt them and make them repeat. And I'm not saying, but the way the system is, it does not generate great things, but there's wonderful men in prison that don't belong in prison. And and if you think, you know, oh, well, you there must have been something you wouldn't be in prison if you didn't. I'm telling you, I met a third of that camp that should have never been there. One guy I had in there, real quick, he bought a company that did car warranties, and the people he bought it from were fraudsters, they got busted, he got 13 months in prison because he bought the company. He not only did he lose everything in his entire investment, but they put him in prison too because he should have known. But they had hidden all that information from him. So you can just find yourself yoked to the wrong thing, the wrong people, and and and you know, if you know people, you don't go to prison. If you don't know people, you can go to prison.
SPEAKER_00So but again, if you love Jesus, can you I think my internet just kind of stopped? You said can you uh we're good, we're still good. Okay could you just take us in maybe for a moment? You you discipled a lot of men in there. It sounds
like that's a huge key to literally unlocking men from prison is discipleship, wouldn't you say? Yeah, could you share with us? Like you don't have to give any names or details, but maybe somebody that you were able to spend time with and see just like the transformation in them through having a father per se in their life. Would you mind sharing maybe a testimonial?
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah. Well, there's one, there's one guy that is he'll know I'm talking about him, but he he just he was locked up when he was 18 or 19 years old, and that was the biggest issue with some of these guys. They were hit with they get caught with a quarter ounce of some drugs or something, and they get 12 years. And when you're in that formative year, you're 19 years old, and all of a sudden you're 31, 32, and you're getting out of prison. You've never held an iPhone, you know. You've and you're supposed to go out and make make it for yourself. But he and I met in the chapel on these little red plastic chairs, and Marty at that time was able to send books in to me that she'd buy it and she could send it in. So I met with him probably 50 times on how to start a painting business, what to do, mission statement, how he would do it. And last week, or I guess last month, he got voted one of the top five painting contractors in Atlanta. And so it's just even just in that moment, we always joke about it, and it's such a blessing, but dear brother in the Lord, too. But he was just hungry to learn. He just needed it, and it was such good soil to plan into, even just with my business planning into him there. But the big issue was seriously, guys were just hungry for purpose, and and and many guys lost their wives there. And when they're crushed, the counsel of most guys in prison to a guy like that is suck it up, you're better off with that, or she doesn't deserve. But I would go and meet with them, and I would go and and and my my wife and I would talk sometimes about some of these situations, and she would give me great advice from her side. Here's how I felt when this happened to you. And especially when guys had marriages they were trying to save. It was incredible. I'll never know until we get to heaven how many of those types of 50 or 60 meetings resulted in their marriages being saved. But it was it was just incredible. And every day, like I said, there were that they even one guy made me a sign and he joked it was the Charlie Brown thing where it said counseling for five cents or whatever.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but I had a little extra chair in my cubicle, and uh, and they put that up, and they're just because every time they walked by, there was a new guy sitting in the chair talking to me. And and it was just it was it was just an incredible journey, incredible journey.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so I have to know like this as well. Prior to going to prison, did you have like were you already discipling a lot of people as well? Ever?
SPEAKER_02No, I think no, I think I was a fan of it, but no, I just I okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So it got stirred, that gift got stirred up.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah, oh yeah, because here's the deal he wiped away everything that didn't matter, and you start realizing the only thing that matters is people. Yeah, okay, you know, our story matters because if someone's listening to it right now and they're they're dealing with something huge, we just want to. I mean, God doesn't love us anymore than he loves them. So the issue is invite him into the entire mess, own the mess, be transparent about the mess. Talk about it, yeah. Watch tell your story, watch him deliver them.
SPEAKER_03It was interesting. Whenever we found out he was going to have to go to prison, we decided we would tell our Sunday school. I didn't want to, and there was a hundred people in our Sunday school class. So we told them, and you were you would be shocked at how many people came up to us and said, Oh, I've got a kid that's in jail, or my my my husband went to jail, or I didn't never said it out loud. He never knew, yeah, nobody ever knew, but they it we discovered that vulnerability breeds vulnerability, so that's what makes us so willing to tell our story because we know it will open up the door for others to tell their story.
SPEAKER_02If I'm sitting with if we're sitting with 30 people in a new small group we have, yeah, and and we just drop 10 minutes of the prison story, all of a sudden everybody just goes, My I was abused by my father when and it just it just vulnerability breathe it gets it real because no one's sitting there judging, going, Well, how are you today? What's my answer? And it's just you know, life is messy, but our God is good and he's a good, good father. He knows what he's doing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So do you tend to be like, I I just imagine you're sitting in a room, like you kind of tend to be the vulnerability like igniters in a way? Yeah, yes, pretty much. Like you're like, Yes. All right, we're gonna start this fire. Yeah, you're gonna start it now. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I have a feeling if some people know us that uh that they hear this podcast, they'll be like, Oh yeah, yeah, that's what they do.
SPEAKER_00I love that. I mean, well, speaking of vulnerability, uh Marty, I wanted to ask you just, you know, you're not in prison, but during your time, you know, maybe some testimonials that you're willing to share, maybe of any of you shared with us the that people were so giving during that time. And you know, maybe something on your end, because I can imagine if I was in your place, I might feel like I was in a prison as well. So, in your time in prison, like what would you say? Maybe a testimonial that you would share with somebody, maybe
there is somebody who's listening in today that has a spouse or a child who's in prison that they're just struggling. Like, what would you say to them? And could you share testify to that?
SPEAKER_03God was always there. He kept showing time and time again. I remember January 1st, New Year's Day, I went to see him in prison. And on the way there, the car broke down. And it just it wouldn't go over 10 miles an hour. And so I finally just pulled off the road. It's 11 degrees, you know. And I'm thinking, what do I do?
SPEAKER_0230 minutes, 30 minutes from the prison.
SPEAKER_0320 minutes from the prison, and I'm five minutes from the nearest town. And I'm thinking, what do I do? So I called my daughter. This was she was two hours away from me. She was gonna come up and get me and bring the triplets, but you know, they were babies and take her a while. Yeah, it was gonna take her a while. So I knew it'd be at least two hours before she got there. And I thought, well, what do I do? And then all of a sudden the cop pulls up behind me and he says, Are you broke down? And I said, Yes, I am. And he said, Well, where are you going? And I said, Well, I was going to the prison to visit my husband in Manchester. And he said, Well, I'm headed that way. He said, How about I just take you? So first time I'm ever in the cop cot, I get in the back and he drops me off at the prison.
SPEAKER_02So it's a country song.
SPEAKER_00I know what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_03Like, but yeah, he puts me in the back, which was really weird. But you know, God provided that guy for to take to get me where I needed to go. And you know, here I am going, okay, what do I do? Because you're not gonna take your purse in to the to the jail. And I'm like, Do I leave it in the car? He said, You don't leave your purse in the car in this area. He said, You take it with you. So when I got there, I was like, Can you go in with me and explain to them that my car broke down because they might not believe me and I've got my purse and I'm not supposed to have it with me or my phone or anything else, and they're very aggressive in the in the visitation thing. So I told him, he said, I don't want to just hang it up there on the hook with your coat and you're fine. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02But let me say this too. And so on my end, I'm there in my my pressed greens and waiting, but you know, we can't, I can't talk to her. So she's supposed to be there and she doesn't show up. So my mind, oh crud, I know she left at eight o'clock this morning and it's 10. It's and they do count at 10:30, so they lock everything down for about 20 minutes, and I'm like 10:15. I'm getting worried, I kind of wonder what's going on. I'm trying to call her, she's not picking up, she's not in service area. And anyway, so then all of a sudden, over the intercom, bets 032, you got one minute to get to visitation. And all the guys are looking at me like, dude, what's going on? And so I got down there, they let me get in on the visit, but it was because the policeman walked him in and says, You're gonna let her visit her husband. Oh my gosh, and they're like, Yes, sir, yes, sir. And so, anyways, it kind of wound up being like something all the guys in the camp talked about going, so your wife came in with a policeman and he told those guys what to do. That's awesome, you know. It was, but but also what it did that day is that's where the Lord taught me. I'm her husband while you're there, I will take care of her and protect her. Yeah, because she was picked up and brought right in and escorted right in, even when the entire system would have said there's no way you can visit your wife. He walked in, made it happen, and we had a wonderful visit that day.
SPEAKER_00So that is like a holy red carpet.
SPEAKER_02If it's it is, I mean, but that was the very first one, the very first first of January when I was when I was locked up, and and the Lord was showing he was our provider, that he was her protector, that he was in charge. And and I I began to just trust in that and walk in that because when you can't do anything else, like seriously, like for real, what are we doing this whole faith walk for? All that matters is that we truly trust him, because there's no reason in believing in God if you don't trust that he will take care of it all.
SPEAKER_03And he showed up, he showed up so many times and just things like that. And I would just tell them to lean into God because He's there, He hears you, He collects your tears in a bottle, you know. He knows, He knows your pain, and and He will bring people to comfort you, He just will. That's so good.
SPEAKER_00I I know you mentioned there's an eagle flying right now. I love eagles. I know you mentioned that you have events that you're putting on, so obviously you're doing that now, but there's there is a there's a between. So how did how did what what are you doing now and how'd that come to be? Like you leave prison. Tell us more, the part two.
Things together for good, Romans 28, right?
SPEAKER_03We moved in with my daughter for a period of time until we get back on our feet, and then we got us an apartment, but then the rent kept going up, and we decided that we got to do something different, so we can't afford this rent anymore. So we decided to get us an RV and live in the RV and travel around to do ministry was gonna be our goal. We were gonna travel all over telling our story, yeah. So we made it as far as Somerset, Kentucky, and then we that's where we've been ever since. It's been three years.
SPEAKER_02The the one minute funny story about the Lord is so we decided we were gonna hit the road. We had we had lived in it for about nine months, getting used to it. We waited for spring to come, we're going to Florida, and and anyways, we broke down 20 minutes out of town where we were going, and it was humiliating because all of our people that were cheering, they're going, they're leaving, this is so exciting. And then we broke down, and so it was like $1,900 worth of repair, it was an electrical thing on our truck, and it took us a while. Oh, yeah, and so I I was I was on my knees at church and I was I was just on the seat, and worship was going on, and I'm like, Lord, Lord, what's going on? And it's almost like all these little things flashed in my mind, and what I did is I remembered and I was like, Didn't you call us to Florida? And I remembered back during the brutal winter, when it was like eight degrees. I was saying, I sure hope the Lord calls us to Florida, and then throughout the jokes, it became we're going to Florida, and so the Lord just very clearly laid in my heart, he said, I didn't call you to Florida, and if you go where I tell you to go, your truck will run better. That's and so, anyways, so then it was like duly noted, sir, and we just waited. Okay, and believe it or not, it was her ex-husband, Greg, who I love, great ex-husband for me to deal with. Yeah, and and he said, You guys should go to J Bez, Kentucky. I put an RV park in there.
SPEAKER_03That's fantastic. You'll love it and never want to leave.
SPEAKER_02Yep. We took a couple days, and I'm like, baby, I don't know why. I got a piece about this.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_02And so we drove two hours to J Bez, Kentucky. Okay, we have now been here three and a half years in Somerset. We moved from there to Somerset.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_02We got rid of the RV. Yeah. Found out we don't like RV.
SPEAKER_00You didn't. Not our thing. That's not a thing.
SPEAKER_02But now we have a home that we lease that's big. We have groups of up to 30 people at a time, and and we just are so involved in prison ministry. We make prison ministry discipleship videos that people can use in prison ministry. We've got guys we visit with down here that we love and see so many lives impacted there. And that reminds me of now I get to do the prison ministry here that I used to do. And and these worship events, these outreach events, the Lord called us to do it. And he is, we're even doing in November the Corbin Arena, which seeds 7,000. We have no idea. It's it's all volunteers, we don't use our names. On the only people anybody needs to know about is Jesus. But people are getting set free. We're seeing healings, they're getting healed of emotional issues, and and it's all just because we lost everything, and the Lord said, I just need you to be in a position to do what I tell you to do.
SPEAKER_00Say that again.
SPEAKER_02Which just all of this is just because we're finally in a position where we lost everything, and now he can say, I just need you to do what I tell you to do.
SPEAKER_00So somebody's hearing that. Yeah, somebody's hearing that right now. And they're in the middle, they're in the middle of it.
SPEAKER_02But the second part of that is we didn't know what we actually wanted in life. You might think, oh, well, you just didn't have goals or dreams. No, we did. But what he had for us is actually what we've always wanted. We just never knew we wanted it. We have never been happier than we are right now. You know?
SPEAKER_00I mean, it it reminds me of well, you know, Joseph.
SPEAKER_02He was I mean, you probably have been yeah, but the only thing with Joseph is I imagine he didn't make stupid business moves, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, he he did do some things that you know like but on the flip side, sorry, Joseph. On the flip side, on the flip side, you know, you look at the process to come to where you are today.
SPEAKER_02But so here's the key, right? Forgiveness and bitterness and and hurt and these people that did this to me, and I lost everything. And now I'm in a port, like, should I send them a thank you card? Like, thank you for all the accusations and thank you for all the harm, because we would have never gotten here had you not done what you did.
SPEAKER_00I mean, it's kind of crazy, right? Right. But it I recently heard somebody say something like that. I'm I won't share exactly what it was, but he's like, I had the perfect childhood. I had parents that were alcoholics and drug addicts, and I was abused. And he's like, and then I kind of followed that. But then because of that, it caused me to create this ministry that actually sets people free. And I at first I thought, Oh, that's great. You had a perfect childhood, and then he starts getting into all the things, and I'm like, you know, like because of the things he walked through, yeah, to then be able to. Get free and then to set others free. It's it's incredible. You know, God makes beauty out of our ashes.
SPEAKER_01He does.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Like this is such a beautiful representation. I love the underdogs. Like my favorite people are the underdogs, and I love that you were able to go in literally and see, you know, unfortunately, we have a system. You you saw it firsthand. I have I do have another question. What what could we done like in our system society to kind of change what you saw? Like, I don't know.
Do you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, what would you love to see happen? I know discipleship was a big thing.
SPEAKER_02Well, see, the issue is again, we as Christians, we want to we want to fix things in the physical world. And at the end of the day, the physical world is men, you know, Mark Twain actually wrote in one of his books, he said, if you want to see the worst dregs in the world, just visit a prison at Shift Change. And here's why, because the business of punishment doesn't bring out the nicest in people. The ones that they're there's some really weird people. But at the same level, if we could figure out how to bring Jesus into the mix and we could truly be about, all right, you screwed up, you dealt drugs, let's teach you a skill, let's let's put you around people that are going to speak life into you and not teach you how to be a hoodlum in prison, you know, where you're just learning how to be a criminal even better because you're hanging out and talking to these guys. So I I think it's I think it really is the Jesus side of it. But also, it's just money. I mean, at the end of the day, I was at a prison camp that had 230 guys. The the federal taxpayer probably paid whatever it was, I think it was 30,000 a year to incarcerate me. And if you think about it, that prison was built by a coal mine that came in and took the coal. So they put a prison there for free, didn't cost anything to the federal government, and they staffed it with two people. So there's $7 million a year going through there. They they and I'm not kidding here, they spent $1.47 a day on food for us. So, like boxes said not fit for human consumption all day long. We would know when to eat, when not to eat, what to avoid. The guys would tell us. And so it's just it's just corruption. It's it's as we've even watched in the last couple of years. Yeah. So even like we'd get excited because like somebody at the work over the commissary would say, Oh my gosh, new TVs are coming in, guys. But then all the guards would just steal them and take them home. We never got new TVs, so seriously, yeah. I got I got the leg bump. She wants me to wrap that up.
SPEAKER_00Why don't you not talk about that? Okay, okay. Um all right, so this is kind of a fun question.
SPEAKER_02But there were some wonderful people there too.
SPEAKER_00I I think this is a fun question.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00What was your first meal that you had once you got out of prison? Jersey mics. Jersey mics, really. Oh gosh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I just needed flavor.
SPEAKER_03Okay. So now when he goes to Jersey Mics, he gets everything.
SPEAKER_02Everything on the bar you possibly can. Everything, everything, everything. Everything. I need 14 napkins to get through it.
SPEAKER_01Okay. And then what's funny is she used to be.
SPEAKER_02I have I have a background in cooking, so she would send me in food magazines just so I could Google at the picture. Other men were getting different kinds of magazines. I just wanted food magazines.
SPEAKER_00You're like, I'm I'm not gonna have this again. So homemade. I can't wait to have an avocado lord. I'm so excited. But did you get fruit or vegetables or anything?
SPEAKER_02Everything was canned, everything was canned and dead and old.
SPEAKER_00Nothing fresh.
SPEAKER_02Like in Christmas, we got a pretty good, pretty good meal. But I would trade out my desserts for the sweet potatoes. I learned to love sweet potatoes in in prison.
SPEAKER_00Really? Okay. How about your first homemade meal outside of Jersey Mike's? This isn't a commercial either.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we were living with my daughter-in-law, and probably it was just making a good steak, you know.
SPEAKER_00Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_02We love our we love our protein.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Well, but I love to cook.
SPEAKER_02I do all the cooking. And you do all the cooking? I'll spend the rest of my life trying to spoil this lady because you know, she walked a hard road our first five years of marriage.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, well, goodness, you guys are amazing. And you guys have been together 13 years. I mean, you're there's no going back. Okay, so tell us more about do I get brownie points for this?
SPEAKER_02We've actually been together 14 years. I just didn't want to correct.
SPEAKER_0014?
SPEAKER_02We got married in 2012. Yeah. Right.
SPEAKER_00Well, tell us. What do you think, guys? That was pretty good, wasn't it? Did a good job there. Get that. So tell us more about the ministry and how it came to be. How did it come to be birthed? Tell us more about that.
SPEAKER_03Well, we always knew that this would result in a ministry of some sort. We didn't know exactly what it was going to look like, but we realized how important your testimony was just because of how everybody reacted to ours. So we wanted to go around and tell other people about our story and encourage them to embrace their story and to not be afraid to tell others so that they could have an impact as well, because everybody has a story. But as God would have it, everything changed once we came here.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So but you know, the other side is too is we're very passionate in helping people walk in victory. And when I say victory, because it seems like such a you know Christianese word, but just walking in who they are. I mean, it's amazing. You know, we're we're sons and daughters of the most high with all rights. We're the word where it's where he talks about we're adopted in Roman times, adoption was an uncancelable thing. You could dismiss your own children, but if you adopted someone, you could never cancel that out. And that's the same wording that talks about how God has taken us. But nothing will change that, that we have all rights. And and so I don't say that, you know, a lot of times I tell
people it's not the name it and claim it thing, it's not some Maserati in the driveway or $10 million in the bank. But he did promise us you will walk in authority, you do not need to walk defeated. Understand who you are, stand in the gap when you're when people are being hurt, when they need help. And so we host discipleship classes. We did a 14-week discipleship class. We had about 30 people attend every week, and and stuff like that we're super passionate about it. Next month, we're doing a prodigal's class for four four weeks. And believe it or not, my oldest son has not talked to me for nine years.
SPEAKER_00Really?
SPEAKER_02Yep. And and the last time was we went to lunch before I went to prison. And he said to me, He said, Dad, I want you to know you were a good dad and I love you. This isn't you, this is something I'm going through. But he's completely cut me off. I have no anything. So some people will say, Well, and it is horrible, but I feel like seven years ago, eight years ago, what the Lord told me to do is he said, Be about speaking life into other people's kids, and I'll take care of yours. And I truly am waiting for that day. I know in the Lord's timing, we will have a great, and I don't care about talking about what happened. All I want to do is kill the fattened calf, get a robe, and you know, and just enjoy my son. But also, we have had, you know, you talked about your day earlier. Uh, I had two mentorship things today with young men that look to me as a father figure. It's the greatest time ever. And so sometimes I think, and I think someone might hear this right now, you know, family can hurt you. But family doesn't have to be the people that are carrying your blood, it's the people that look to you and value you and need you. That's your family. And not that it discludes family of blood, but our worth is not in in any of the family drama because boy, family can sure hurt people. Yes, but but there's a lot of people who have been hurt by their family that need you to love them and speak life into them and be a mom, be a dad, help them to understand what to do to navigate a situation. That becomes super rich and and rewarding when you're in the journey, like we are.
SPEAKER_03And we have always prayed for God to bring people into our children's lives that would speak about that's right. So God kind of revealed to us that you be that person for someone else's kids. Yeah, so that's what we have tried to do is to be that person for someone else's kids, so that God will, you know, honor us.
SPEAKER_02We just didn't know how many kids he had. It's a lot of kids.
unknownWow.
SPEAKER_02God, sorry, just making a joke.
SPEAKER_00I'm my I'm I'm having this, I'm I'm just imagining, like, because I kind of think in picture. So, you know, as you again, you know, we we gain authority in the things that we've walked through, obviously. Like, yes, and because you're walking through this, you deeply know what it's like, and because you're willing to speak into it and disciple people through it. I'm sure you're maybe you don't know this, I'm sure maybe you have, but you're seeing this ripple effect, right? Yeah again, going back to igniting, like you're a vulnerability igniter. Now you're like a, you know, you guys are igniting so many wildfires in your jurisdiction because of your willingness to say yes to you know, continuing on in hard places. And I think that's where unfortunately I see a lot of people kind of give up too early, right? Before, you know, it's like, well, you know, like there's so many things that come at us that could cause us to to give up. What would you say to that person that yeah, that you're walking through a lot, but God's still calling you to walk forward? What would you say to that person?
SPEAKER_02Okay. I uh I think one of the one of the key things that I can only come at from experience is I spent my entire life representing my interests, losing everything. And then coming out the other end. And even even as a as a as a man, men have issues with identity because when you lose what you do and you've been mocked, you you don't know where you fit. And and so I am so deeply gratified spending every single day, Lord, what do you want me to do today? Who can we impact? What can we do? Not for the sake of impact, but Lord, what do you want today? It's never been more gratifying. It's the happiest times of our life. I'm not saying that because of any other thing except for it is, but I also some people say, you know, but you guys are always doing stuff and always doing stuff. And I think for me as a man, losing everything and being in prison, I think when I came out, I was like, Lord, I never want to waste another day of my life again.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And and however long or little we get to Terry, I'm gonna leave it on the field. And and I put a lot of pressure on this lady sometimes, and we'll have our talks, and and I really do try to serve her and hear her, and and you know, make sure I'm not, you know, it was a bit for her to go, you want to do seven events, but she's fully on board, and we're watching God move, he's stretching both of us.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I was gonna say that that's a big stretch, right? It is because he likes to stretch us. He does.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, he does.
SPEAKER_00That's why I have this little guy. There's nothing small.
SPEAKER_02Like this is Ah, Gumby, how you doing, Gumby?
SPEAKER_00I've got Gumby here because he stretches, you know, just a reminder that he's gonna continue to stretch us.
SPEAKER_02So let me just let me just make a last thing. So the word to that person is if you're unhappy, if you're stressed out, if you're frustrated with where your life is, you are still trying to control the outcome. Turn your hands upside, just literally say, Lord, tomorrow, today, right now, I want to just move forward. Show me what you want me to do. Because if we will let him be our schedule keeper, you will never be happier.
SPEAKER_03But also, I think they need to take the time to sit down with the Lord and say, God, what is it that you want me to learn from this?
SPEAKER_02Yay, amen. Good.
SPEAKER_03What is it that I need to change in my life? Yeah, and just lean into it. And that's hard, that's so hard to do. I know. And there were times I went kicking and screaming, and I mean, I would scream at Lord, why am I going through this? Why? Why me, Lord? Yeah, and you know, he was good. I mean, he he knows we're angry, so you know, why not voice? He's not surprised, yeah. He's not surprised by any of it. So it's okay to get upset with the Lord, and it's okay to yell at the Lord and say, you know, whatever, but but always know that he's there and he hears you and he he wants to help you closer than he wants the best for you, yeah. And you have to lean into it and find out what that is, yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's good. So what I'm hearing is like rather than being like, why, like, why? And we can ask those questions, right? Yep. But what do you want me to learn from this? That's so powerful.
SPEAKER_02It is so cool. And I think I have to add to that too, that and this is the most unpopular thing I'm gonna say today. But if if someone's been abused by their parents or they've been harmed or stolen from, or people have cut you off, you have to forgive. It's the one thing that Jesus said. He said, You know, I can't forgive you if you don't forgive. And what people don't understand on that, it's not just about forgiveness, but you're preventing God from moving in your life. He has so much he wants to do for you because you're his child. He wants to bless you. But if you're hanging on to offense and bitterness, you are single-handedly stopping that yourself. And, you know, and it took a long time for me to forgive the people that started this, just as I'm sure there were people in my journey that took time for them to forgive me for the stupid decisions I made. But at the end of the day, all we got to do is remember the Lord has absolutely taken each and every one of us back 10,000 times, said, I love you. Let's start over. Who are we to hold an offense against people? Even the brutal things that happened, it's not saying it's okay what that other person did. You're just saying, Father, I give you the rights to deal with that. I'm gonna forgive and let go of it and trust you.
SPEAKER_00It's okay. You guys are amazing. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_02Oh, praise God.
SPEAKER_00Do you have you have books that you've written?
SPEAKER_02Nope, not yet.
SPEAKER_00She's working on you're you're working on it?
SPEAKER_02She's getting ready. Yeah, okay. What's the title?
SPEAKER_00Wallowing in your woundedness.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_00It's not forgiveness.
SPEAKER_02It's good. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Wow. And do you know roughly when it will be coming out? No, no. Not yet. Probably finished it.
SPEAKER_02Probably by the beginning of the year. She's married to a marketing dad. So you have to be your I'll be your publisher. Yes, right. I love it.
SPEAKER_00Well, you guys have shared so much goodness here today. Um, I feel like we'll maybe we'll have you back again, like when your book comes out. You've got I think you have a movie in you. I mean, there's so much more for you.
SPEAKER_02Goodness. Well, the other thing is too, is if you ever get something where you need to talk about prison or you need to talk about losing everything, and you feel like that's something we'd be glad to come in. We'll talk any any subject you want.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_00I love that. So as I shared before, like I do this for the one collectively. I know you've shared a lot towards the one today, but do you have any like final encouragement that you'd want to leave with this one today? Just briefly, both of you.
SPEAKER_03I think I would just say embrace the adventure God has for you, no matter how bad it looks.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Because He will turn it into something beautiful if you let it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And I think if if the world is feeling sorry for you, you're probably in the most powerful place you could ever be in your entire life because God's getting ready to do something big.
SPEAKER_00That's good.
SPEAKER_02It just you got to lean into it and trust him.
SPEAKER_00I'm hearing lean into it a lot. I think you gotta lean in, not lean out.
SPEAKER_01That's uh that's awesome.
SPEAKER_00Well, I'm gonna close with the hope unlocked
anchoring verse. It's may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope. And that's Romans 15, 13. How can people get in touch with you?
SPEAKER_02What's the best uh embracingyourstory.org. And uh we've got stuff on the events there and tons of videos. And uh, but just again, super grateful to you, sis. Uh it's an honor to be able to be on with you today.
SPEAKER_00That's been wonderful. Thank you for being brave voice voices. I usually say it's so fun having a couple on. Thank you for being brave voices who are setting so many free. I will be back with another episode next week. Bye, everybody. Bye, bye.