You Don’t Solve Grief—You Soften It with Bethany Spencer

What if the ending you never wanted wasn’t the end at all? In this powerful episode of Hope Unlocked, Kristin Kurtz sits down with Bethany Spencer—remarried widow, mother of five, coach, and author—for a raw conversation about grief, lament, and reimagining life after loss. After losing her husband to cancer in just eleven months, Bethany shares how learning to lament with honest prayer opened space for healing without bypassing pain. We explore the biology of grief, including nervous system overload, disrupted sleep, and loss of focus, and how understanding trauma reduces shame. This episode offers practical wisdom on supporting others through loss and invites listeners navigating widowhood, trauma, or deep transition to soften grief and open their hands to new paths God may be forming.

Bethany's contact info:

Email - mrsbethanyspencer@gmail.com

Facebook

Instagram

Free resource from Bethany:

Hope Notes (free weekly encouragement) - https://bethanyspencer.myflodesk.com/hopenotes 

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Welcome to the Hope Unlock Podcast. I'm your host, Kristen Kurtz, and I'm also the founder of New Wings Coaching. I help and empower wild-hearted and adventurous women of faith feeling caged and stuck, unlock their true purpose and potential, break free from limitations, and thrive with confidence, courage, and hope. If you're curious to learn more about coaching with me, head to NewWingsCoaching.net and be sure to explore the show notes for ways to connect with me further. Get ready to dive in as we uncover empowering keys and insights in this episode. So tune in and let's unlock hope together. Welcome to the Hope Unlocked Podcast. I'm Kristen Kurtz, your host. I pray this episode is like a holy IV of hope for your soul. Please help me welcome Bethany Spencer to the show. I'm so excited to have her on today. We had a moment just to chat a little bit before we got started. And I can already tell that we're like, you know, kindred sisters from another mother. So before we get into your story, would you be open to just sharing a little bit about yourself?

Bethany’s Story And Roles

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Yeah, absolutely. Okay, thank you for having me on. This is super exciting. Um, okay, so I am a widow. I am a remarried, remarried widow. I'm a wife, I am a mama of five. And I am an elementary school teacher, turned stay-at-home mom, turned entrepreneur, turned coach, turned author and speaker. It has been a wild ride. That's me in a nutshell.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

I love it. That is a beautiful nutshell. So you've obviously been on quite a journey. Um I would love for you to just share with us, you know, wherever you'd like to in your in your journey that you feel would really be just a hope-filled um perspective to get started today.

The End Isn’t The End

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Yeah, absolutely. So I feel like I, over the probably the last five to six years, have really just been in a season where God has really been teaching me that the end is never really actually the end. Um, that these things that happen to us um that feel like dead ends that um maybe we didn't feel, you know, should have happened to us or would have happened to us. And when we wake up in these stories where we're like, man, I would have never written this for myself. I would have never chosen any of these chapters. I would have, you know, edited them out. Um, you find yourself at what feels like a dead end. God has just been pulling me in closely and just reminding me that He is a God of cul-de-sac. And that He can really turn everything and anything into something else, turn it around. Um, and the last about five, six years um that I've been walking through just extreme loss and grief and just like I said, let's like chapters of your story that are just completely unexpected and not fun at all, just like this deep, deep guttural suffering. Um that's really just been pulling me close and showing me that even amidst the suffering, even amidst the lament and the grief and all of the hard, there is still good. He is still good, even amidst all of it.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Yes. Well, take us back, you know, you said the last five, six years, um, like in your journey, and and like, did you have people around you? Like, what did it look like for you to walk through all of this? Because I know everybody has a story where they've had some type of trauma or grief or loss. And I I honestly don't know that we are quote unquote trained up on how to even walk through things. Um myself, like I kind of tend to be, you know, pull your bootstraps up, girl, you got to keep going. You've got kids, you've got this, you've got that. So, like, what does that look like for you with even with five kids, right? Yeah.

Diagnosis, Loss, And Disorientation

The Gift And Practice Of Lament

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Yeah. I mean, you're totally right. Like the world um and the church, especially, I feel um, there's so many conversations to be had, I feel like, right in the sanctuary in the church, um, about this very thing. But yeah, the world just tells us we have to muscle through, we have to power through, we have to, like you said, just like pull our boots on, strap up and like climb up, you know. Like if you know, life has dealt you a hard hand, you learn to play it, you know, like figure it out, you know. Um, and what I have found through, you know, um a completely unexpected cancer diagnosis from my late husband. He was um a third grade teacher and only 42 at the time. And we had five children, um, ages 10 and under at the time of his diagnosis and 11 under um at the time of his death. Um, and I did. I woke up in a world that was completely different. I'd lost my partner, my best friend, my kid's dad. And um, you just feel completely disoriented and untethered. And it's like, gosh, how do I make sense of this? And how do I do this thing well? Um, it's so hard, it sucks so bad. How do I do this thing well, though, in a way that honors my late husband, honors the Lord, honors my children, honors me, you know, all of these different things. And um, I what I really found was the power of lament through it all, um, the gift of lament and the fact that, you know, God sees us in our suffering and He welcomes us in our suffering. And this whole idea that we need to clean it up and kind of I call it like sanitize our suffering, you know, before we walk into the sanctuary, you know, the whole thing where it's like we have to sanitize everything, you know, like um, it's just simply not true because like it's not even biblical, you know. You look through the Bible and there are, I mean, Lamentations alone, Psalms, you know, like there are time after time in the scriptures where people are crying out to God. I mean, Jesus even cried out, right? Yes. And so just this idea that like we don't have to fix our suffering to be seen in our suffering, and um just this idea, yeah, this idea that the Lord, the Lord sees us, and we do not have to edit ourselves and fix it and change it before we bring it to him. Um, and I really found over the last um years as I have, you know, tried to um reimagine what life would be like and recreate different things that um man, God is with us through all of it. And this obsession that we have with fixing it, um, I always like to say, you know, we're not solving this grief, we're not solving what has happened to us, we're just we're softening it, right? There's so many beautiful ways to soften that grief.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

So um that's yeah, I just like soften grief.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Yeah, I just find so much relief in knowing that like God has never asked us to clean it up, He's never asked us to, you know, shove it in the closet or push it under the rug, you know, none of those things we're allowed to bring him whatever it is that our stories um are holding, whatever has happened to us. You know, we don't have to explain it away or I don't know, neutralize it, you know?

SPEAKER_01 8:10

Yeah. When I I would love to for you to just maybe help somebody who's listening. I I'm I'm just wondering if somebody out there is wondering what lament means and what it looks like to lament. Yeah, you don't really use that word, you know, too frequently, I would say.

Naming Pain Without Polishing It

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Yeah. Well, when I after my husband died, it was like, oh gosh, how do I figure out how to do this well? How do I hold like grief in one hand and belief in the other? You know, um, because I had spoken to so many people, um, and it it seemed like there were two pathways that were really popular. It was either let's like put a lot of Christianese on it, like let's tell people, hey, the joy of the Lord is your strength, and let's just slap like scripture on it without actually addressing what it is and honoring the depth of what somebody was was walking through. So it felt like it was either it was either cliches and platitudes and scripture and all of that, or it was like just muscle through, right? And just like power through. And it was like, okay, like there's got to be, there's gotta be something. Like, how do we, um, as humans, but also as believers, like, how do we navigate this intersection of like, oh my gosh, what has happened to us? What has happened to my family, what I'm living through is like atrocious. It's actually horrific. It's so traumatic. It's so, you know, it's like a giant rupture, you know, of your world. And how do I, how do I walk through that and trust that God is still a good God, right? And I didn't do something to deserve this. I haven't done something wrong. I'm not being punished. Like all of the, you know, just this question after question. And so as I really dove into that, I was like, oh my gosh, lament, of course. Like lament is lament is maybe not the only answer, but it's one answer. You know, it's one, it's one way to navigate that intersection. And um, what I kind of think of when I think of lament, I think of it as kind of like this holy sacred space between pain and hope, right? Where you can bring your raw and completely unedited sorrow into the presence of God without polishing it or performing or pretending. Um, it's kind of like saying, you know, like this is horrific. This hurts so much, and I'm bringing it to you anyway. And I trust you, and I believe you're still with me. And I, you know, truly believe and know that you still have good things for me in spite of what's happening. And I think a lot of times um we've just been taught that naming things is like complaining, you know, especially in faith circles, right? It's like, gosh, we want to run so hard in the opposite direction from despair, right? And the pain and all of that. And it's like, gosh, we're not we we can worship God and not avoid pache at the same time, right? And so I really think of lament as like this prayerful honesty where you have the courage um to name what has broken your heart, and you're still turning your face toward the one who can heal it, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

Yeah, well, and you mentioned too, you know, lamentations and and psalms. I remember going through some really tough seasons and just like, I don't even know what to do, you know. And it's like I remember, I'm pretty sure it was my sister who said, Kristen, just get in Psalms, like David, you know, basically poured his heart out, but then he was able to be like, Hey, you know, but I still trust you, but I still have hope. XYZ, you know, like it was this pour out, but then get poured back into, right? Wouldn't you say?

Parenting Through Grief And Nervous System Strain

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Yeah, absolutely. And it's like, you know, lament is this beautiful way to just hold two things at once. And we kind of think that, you know, like it's either or, and that's absolutely the opposite. Like, God is so all all encompassing, right? I mean, like we can we can hold two things, we can bring him two things at once, we can believe two things at once, and so it's lament, I found, is really the bridge between the wound and the healing. Um, and it has allowed me the gift of staying soft um amidst something that has really tried to harden me.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Sure. I mean, did you have moments of of kind of getting hard and kind of tucking away and wanting to hide?

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Yeah, I mean, it's it's a really vulnerable spot to be. And it's it's really hard because you know, you're going through this um just huge loss, and you're going through this huge thing. Um, but at the same time, you still have five children to raise. You know, you still have kids that need stuff, and um, and it's like, okay, how do I how do I hold this thing and grieve for myself and process this and work through all of it while like functioning in the real life at the same time, you know, in the real world at the same time. Um, and it's hard. Um, but lament has been such a gift to me, um, and just allowing me to really understand the heart of the father for his children, um, and understand how the Lord um, man, you really get to know the Lord in a whole new way in the midst of suffering that you wouldn't otherwise. And so while, you know, everything that has happened has been so hard and so horrible, um, I wouldn't trade that experience, you know, for anything.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Yeah. And I, you know, it's interesting because it I was actually gonna ask you, like, I know through, you know, everybody has has painful experiences. I know through some of the most painful and heart-wrenching, and you know, just these moments of like, why God? Like, you know what I mean? Because it's it's an honest question, like, why? Like, why me? You know, you why? Yeah. So, you know, during those moments, like what would you say have been, you know, some of the I don't know, I'm just seeing like almost the the diamonds in the rough that he gave you through these um really painful experiences that you could share that maybe even translates even even into other parts of um your life as well.

Finding And Building Community

SPEAKER_00 15:24

Yeah. Um I think one of the the biggest well, there's been a there's been a couple things. Um, one of the biggest things is that I've really learned to not resist my reality. Um and I feel like because I have unending questions, the temptation, because I can't answer those questions, I can't answer the question, why my husband? Why me? Why our children, why did this happen? You know, there's just like countless, endless questions. And the temptation when you can't answer those questions, um, is to become obsessed with those questions. Like I will not be able to experience peace. I'll not be able to feel joy. I'm not going to be able to create movement and freedom in my life unless I have these questions answered. And it's a, I mean, that is such a valid position to be in. But for me, it was like, gosh, I don't think I can answer these questions. I don't think anyone around me can answer these questions. You know, it was like we're all coming up short. Like, I don't think these are questions that um in this lifetime here on earth are going to be answered. And so I really had to make peace with the fact that, well, if I'm not going to have these questions answered, why do I keep tormenting myself with by asking myself them over and over and over? Because it's just a reminder that I don't know. And it's just a reminder of the fact that I have all these doubts and questions, and I have no, you know, there's no solution to them, there's no closure to them. And so I really had to get to a point where it was like, you know what, I can either keep tormenting myself with these questions over and over and over, and through asking them over and over, really resisting my current reality, what has happened. I mean, it really was like a form of resistance. You know, it's like, well, I'm not going to accept what's happened to me until somebody can explain why it happened, right? And I just got to this point where it was like, I think if I took all of the energy and all of the time and emotion and all the things that I'm putting into asking questions that will not be answered in this lifetime, and I put it into creating movement and freedom in my life and helping myself, you know, create spaces where I can recreate and reimagine and experience God in new ways. Um, man, I wonder what that would be like. And so that's what I began to do. And I just began to ask God to help me to accept that even though I did not see this coming, this was not in our plans, this was like what like it was so out of left field, right? Like, Lord help me accept what has happened to me so that I can continue to live a healthy, good life, you know? And it was like once I was able to stop resisting to like resist the resistance, like when I was able to accept my reality, it was then that I felt some freedom to kind of lift my head up and look around and say, okay, yes, I would have never chosen this, but this is what I have now. So what can I do with what I have?

SPEAKER_01 19:09

You know?

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

So much goodness. You know, I'm I'm curious because I'm a very curious person, and it's part of why I'm doing this. Um, you know, I I haven't known a lot of women who've walked through a loss of a husband with, you know, five children, young children. What did that look like to, you know, walk through with your children um to just bolster them and and be a mother to them during a time of you know, probably a lot of grief and just a lot of answered, you know, unanswered questions that you couldn't even answer even for your own children?

Remarriage And Moving To Costa Rica

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Yeah, it's it's it's really hard to fit into words. I mean, um my youngest, who's now eight, um, I mean, she asked me a question about why her daddy had to die just two nights ago. And we're five years out. And so um, you know, it's still very fresh and very real and very raw, even after, you know, time has time has passed. But um it's one of those things where I mean, I I really truly had to depend on the Lord in such a new vulnerable way. Um because the just the like the everyday functioning, you know, of your family in your household, just like the everyday practical logistics of. Everything are completely, completely different. And then you think, you know, I'm experiencing this loss this way. And then I have five young humans, five little humans who are experiencing it in their own way, and they want to grieve their own way. And they are integrating this loss and processing this loss in their own ways. And so it is really, really hard work. It's hard work to um walk through it on your own, but then feel like you're caring, caring children as well. Um, but it's one of those things where it was like, I really felt deep in my spirit, it was like, I have to do this well. I have, I have to do this well, and I have to, I have to model healthy grieving. I have to show them what it is to um be honest with what they're feeling, you know, whatever whatever emotions are coming up. But yeah, I mean, it is not, I will not sugarcoat it. It is so, so hard. And you already, um as a as a widow, you are already running on like less than empty all the time. And you're in hyper-vigilant mode, and your nervous system is like scanning for danger all the time because it's just had this huge rupture to its its life, and everything feels unsafe and unpredictable. And oh, it's it's oh yeah, it's it's really, really, really hard, which is why I um I'm such a huge proponent of some sort of community for those of us who are walking through whatever type of loss you're walking through, um, is is some kind of community where you can be in some sort of room, whatever that looks like, and look in the actual face of someone else and be like, you get it, right? And nothing is lost in translation. It's like you're in a community like that, it's like holding up a mirror and being like, Oh, okay, I'm not the only one here. Um and in deep seasons of just deep, deep loss, that is so important.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

So important. Wow. So did you have that community then when you were walking through this?

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Yeah, so I, you know, I woke up a widow at 38 and I looked around and I was like, whoa. Yeah. Like it's hard to find, it's really hard to find community. Um, I knew a lot of like I was kind of in connection with some widows, but they were in a completely different season of life. Most of them were empty nesters or retired, and um, and I was over here, you know, my youngest with was still in pull-ups, you know. I'm like, okay, what different season for sure. It's like, what is this? Um, which is one of the reasons why I started sharing so openly on social media. Um, one of the first reason I did it was because the Lord told me to just share every detail. Um when my husband was diagnosed, the Lord very clearly was like, Hey, this story, it's about you, but it's not about you. You know what I mean? Like, um, this this is this is for for others to hear and see and know. And so um, that was the first reason I started sharing on social media, but something really beautiful was birthed out of that is that all of a sudden I was connected with all sorts of women who were caregiving for their husbands, or who had just buried their husbands, or who, you know, were maybe in my season of life and widowed, or maybe in like the next season, but had walked something something similarly. And so it was really this um, this beautiful kind of outpouring of connection that was born out of my reluctant vulnerability, my reluctant you were. I was gonna say, were you you were reluctant? I mean, I am not. People are always like, Oh, you're so vulnerable. And I'm like, This is this that is the Holy Spirit working in me because I am just not um I've grown my vulnerability muscles over the years, and so I'm much better at it now. But at the time, I was like, oh my gosh, like this is really wildly uncomfortable. This is not like, why am I doing this? Um, but I could immediately see the impact it was having, and I was like, you know, I just I knew I had to be obedient to the Lord. Um, but as a result, um, yes, that community has grown exponentially.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

And um yeah, so is this a community that you like created then?

SPEAKER_00 25:21

Yes, kind of. Like I just mean, like I'm just connected with so many people. We message back and forth and everything. Um, I have done um a lot of widow coaching and I've had done a lot of coaching groups for widows. I'm not currently doing one right now because I'm in a season of writing, but um yeah, it's been really, really beautiful to kind of be a connector in that way. Um, because what I found was like all of there were so many other, you know, it's kind of like, you know, when you like buy a new car and then you start seeing that car everywhere, but it was not radar before. And it was like, oh my gosh, my husband got cancer, and it was like, oh my gosh, all of these other people have cancer. And then my husband passed away and I was a new young widow, and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm starting to see like young widows all over the place, and it's like, gosh, I never even, you know, sadly enough, like I never noticed before. I just didn't, it just wasn't a thing. Um, but then I began to notice, and over and over, what I heard was I just feel so isolated, I feel so alone, nobody understands what I'm going through, nobody understands grief, nobody understands widowhood, nobody, you know, and so it started to be like this thing where oh gosh, we can talk and we can help each other and just see each other, you know.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

Yes, that's I mean, that's so important too, is to be seen, right? Yeah, yeah. No matter what you're walking through, and you know, in even in our last five years, people have become so isolated, unfortunately. Um, if you're still isolated right now, Bethany and I are saying come out. Yes, out of hiding. Wouldn't you agree?

Hard Beside Good: New Vision

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Yeah, oh, a hundred percent. And it's hard, it's really hard. And in grief, it's really, really hard to get those like socializing muscles back. You know, it's it's really, really hard. You I mean, I can think so many times like I did not want to go out, I didn't want to leave my home, I didn't want to interact, I didn't want to, like, it was just it drained a fight, right? Yeah, there's a fight. It was like it drained me in a different kind of way. And but I also knew that if I stayed behind closed doors, like that was also no way to live. Um, like that was just that was going to just breed like isolation breeds isolation, you know what I mean? And so I would, I would literally like force myself to be like, you're gonna go walk around Target for 30 minutes today, you know. Like if somebody asked me to coffee, it was like, okay. And I would just, you know, I had like these little tricks that I would like trick my own self with with like you're gonna go have coffee. Like, you only have to go for an hour, you don't have to go for this, isn't it like a whole day event, but like you're going, you're going to go do this thing. Um, and luckily I had a really, really lovely supportive community that just loved on us so well. So it they they helped in so many ways to make it easier for me.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Yeah. So it sounds like from what I'm hearing, is you had a lot of like people maybe around the world that were connecting online. Yeah. But then you also were very blessed to have people locally too as well. Yes, yes. Yes, yeah. And isn't it amazing? I I find um I'm not always the biggest fan of social media, you know, but I've made some of the most amazing, amazing, so many amazing connections around the world and just so many precious, you know, women, especially who, you know, we have similar hearts. And had we not, you know, if we didn't have social media, we wouldn't like I probably wouldn't have you on today.

SPEAKER_02 29:00

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

That's what's so wild about it is that for as, you know, for as many things as there are that we're like, eh, we could probably leave those. Um there are so many beautiful connections that would never have been made. You know, it's just just for location, just for like geographical reasons alone, you know? Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

Well, what would you say? Like, so through one of your, you know, maybe one of the connections that you've made through um, you know, stepping out vulnerably and being obedient to his call to do that. Um, you know, obviously you don't have to share anybody's details, but would you say there was like an amazing story that um maybe you could share in connecting with somebody or even if you being vulnerable to help somebody?

What To Say And Do For Grievers

SPEAKER_00 29:46

Yeah, I mean, there are so so many, but I I think the main like overarching story is just the feeling of um this shoulder-to-shoul living. Um so many of us, you know, when we isolate or when we're in deep pain or deep loss, you know, it's it is the easier thing to isolate. And it's very natural to want to do that, of course, a hundred percent. But I think also when we when we do that, we lose the shoulder to shoulder. Um, and I love the shoulder to shoulder because man, there are so many benefits to living and walking life, you know, shoulder to shoulder with someone. Um, and so I always have like this image of, you know, how can I make sure that I am touching shoulders with someone who's walking something similar as I am, because for as many people who blessed me, right, by seeing me and serving me and helping me and um making sure that I wasn't living behind closed doors, like now I get to pass that on, right? I get to embody that myself. And so just this this you know, overarching idea that um it's so cliche, but we it is better together, you know what I mean? Like even I mean, it's not you know, this shoulder to shoulder stuff, it's not going, it's not gonna change everything, but it's gonna change something. Um and something is something, you know, you know, yeah, something's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I like to call it, you know, having even having for sure having in person, I call them in-person people. Yes, making sure you have in-person people because I think our our world has become very um online people, which is great. Like I said, I love online people, but we really need to have in-person people who we can pour in and out of, right?

SPEAKER_00 31:56

Yeah, a hundred percent. And that's it's hard, it's hard to find those people. If you don't have those people just naturally through, you know, your lifestyle, that it is really, it can be really hard and feel very discouraging when you don't have when you don't have that in your your longing for it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 32:16

Yes, absolutely. Well, I know you I loved the vision of you said something about a cul-de-sac. It's not a dead end, but a cul de sac, right? I don't remember exactly how you set up on like, oh my gosh. I think in pictures, so I'm I'm like, wow, I love this. Um, tell us a little bit more about like uh you you mentioned that you are now remarried, which is amazing. Um, what did that look like for you to um, you know, step into that next um part of your story?

What Grief Coaching Really Helps With

Current Offers, Retreat, And Connect

SPEAKER_00 32:45

Yeah, so I really um, you know, I think it's really connected to what we were talking about before, where um we're not resisting our real, we're not resisting our reality anymore. And when I when I kind of unclenched my fists and I was like, oh gosh, you know, this is what my life is gonna look like. I I remember after my late husband was diagnosed, all I kept asking the doctors and the nurses over and like, am I gonna be widowed? Like, is this, you know, is this is this terminal? Is this, you know, because I was just like, hey, I'd rather know if that's where we're headed, um, just so I so that I can do some some level of preparation. I know I couldn't prepare all the way, but I just like at least I could make begin to kind of make peace with it as the best I could. Um, and I remember tell them telling me over and over again, no, no, no, no, no. This is this is totally treatable. This is totally, and as we went through it, was it was 11 months from diagnosis to death. Um I just I never gave up hope. But I just, you know, when you just know in your bones like something like this is this is I I don't think that I we're gonna get the answer that we're praying that we wish we would get. We're gonna get an answer, but it's not, I don't think we're gonna get the answer um that we would prefer. And I remember really wrestling with that. And I remember so many times like just crying out to the Lord and just being like, gosh, this is not what I saw coming at all. This is not what I want. And um, but also knowing that I could either I could either let this break me or I could let this strengthen me in a different kind of way. Um, and I knew that I had it, I knew that I had a choice, and I was like, I can either let this take me out or I'm just going to have to get really scrappy and I'm just gonna have to really get really fiery and um and do what I can to like stay in this, you know? Um, and so that's what I chose to do. And um, and so once I once I was able to like, you know, stop white knuckling what I wanted to happen, what I wish would have happened and what I didn't understand, once I was able to kind of release all of that, it was like, okay, now my hands are open, they're not, you know, clenched tight anymore. I'm not white knuckling, you know, all of this other stuff. And so it's like, oh, I can trade resentment for curiosity, and I can trade um, you know, these unanswered questions for some sort of hope that only the Lord can give me, you know, it's like, oh gosh, I can now that my hands are unclenched, I'm kind of pick up some different things. Um, and by things, I just mean like curiosity of like what could my life look like after this, you know? Um, and so that's really what it was is just been this process of um re-imagining for so long. I I wrestled with the word rebuilding, and I I use it every now and then still, but yeah, I've really kind of set that word to the side a little bit just because I'm not trying to rebuild what I had with my late husband, if that makes sense. So much has changed. I'm so different, our family is different, you know. So many, it's like we you can honor what was, and you can also recreate something new. And that's the beauty, that's the freedom we have in Christ, right? Is that the end is never actually the end. There is no end in Christ. And so once I really like got a hold of that in my brain, and once you know, the Lord really brought that home to my spirit, it was like, oh gosh, um, if there is no end, then I'm actually not at a dead end at all. It feels like a dead end, you know what I mean? Like it is the end of some things, but it's not the end of everything. Um that opened up a lot, a lot of freedom for me.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

Yeah. Wow. So you you're able to catch a vision, maybe not seeing the fullness of of what was to come, but um, you were open to what was to come. So what was to come after my husband died? Yeah, so you you're now remarried.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:29

Like you just step into your relationship, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:35

I wonder if what you know, I'm always thinking about people who are listening in, you know, and maybe they've walked through this and they just think, I I couldn't do that. And maybe they just haven't heard anybody else walk through something where they are going beyond what looks like a dead end.

Hope As A Muscle And Closing Prayer

SPEAKER_00 37:51

Yeah. I think all of our, you know, all of our cul-de-sacs look so differently. For me, it looked this way, and for others, it'll look, you know, we're that's the beautiful thing about serving God and and being loved by a God who's so creative and who writes our our stories so individually and uniquely. But for me, um, man, we like my life has changed so much and in so many, so many good ways. Things are still so, so hard, um, frequently, but that I've made my peace with. I've made my peace with like, you know what, there's just going to be, there's gonna be a lot of hard. And that's just that that's what it is. And the hard can sit next to the good, you know. The hard doesn't mean that it's only hard. It's just a lot of it is hard, and and you know, that's to be expected with what what we've lived through. But yes, I got um, I got remarried and just a yeah about a year and a half, a little bit more over a year and a half ago, um, we sold everything and uh moved to Costa Rica. And that is wait a second. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

Okay, back it up a little bit. Yeah, sure. Tell us more. You sold everything. You sold you met somebody, got married, sold everything. Yes, you gotta tell us a little bit more about that work. I at least I want to know. I'm like, wait, wait, wait.

SPEAKER_00 39:19

I'm an open book. So I uh reconnected with someone that I had known in college. Our families were good friends, and we got married three years ago, and then um about a year and a little over a year and a half ago, we're probably at 18 months about right now. Um we we were still living in the home that my late husband and I had lived in. And um, I knew that um after he died there, I knew that we would sell the home eventually. Um, but I was kind of just waiting for my kids to express interest. I didn't want to do it prematurely or until everybody in the family was ready. And so when they uh when they started expressing interest and being like, hey, can we move and this and the other? I grew up in Costa Rica and they have been coming to Costa Rica for since you know they can remember. And so yeah, so and we had um we had a home here. And so we were like, you know what, why don't we, you know, we prayed a bunch about it and we really felt the Lord leading us to just sell everything. So we sold just about every single thing. Um when I say just about everything. I mean like we brought our clothes with us. That's it. That was about it. That was our clothes. Like a suitcase. Yes. Like we brought a few suitcases down. Um but we sold, we sold everything and moved down here about 18 months ago, 18, 19 months ago. And um it had so when I say my life is like totally different, it is it is totally, totally different. Um I made a lot of really big decisions, bold decisions, but they were so the right decisions. Um I felt the Lord leading me at every single turn. And um, and our family is doing so, so well. So they are so well adjusted and just um they're awesome. So yeah, so many, so many big changes over the last, you know, years and everything, but such good things. And um like I I was a teacher and then I was a stay-at-home mom when um Eric and I began our family, and now I'm a grief coach, and you know, like all of these just like I'm hosting a retreat here in Costa Rica at the end of January for widows, and like it's just been really, really sweet to see what the Lord has done with what has happened. Um and it doesn't erase, you know, like it doesn't erase none of the none of the pain is erased, none of the hard, you know, is erased or anything like that, but all of this good has come to sit next to the hard, which is really, really beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

That is such a beautiful visual of like the the all of this, like every I love how you speak. Um, the the hard sitting next to how did you say that? The hard sitting next to the good, yeah. Hard sitting next to the good, like usually they sit at different tables, yeah. Right? The chairs are in different tables.

SPEAKER_00 42:30

We don't yeah, we usually put the chairs together. Oh my god. And we're also told, I mean, I'm just thinking about like earlier in our conversation, and we were talking about the church and and just like the world worldly expectations, it's kind of like, hey, you gotta choose you gotta choose where you're gonna sit, right? You know, and and also insinuating that there's like a wrong choice that you could make, right? You know, and it's like actually, I can like you can have two things. I mean, often I have four or five things on my plate at once, and it doesn't yeah, you know, and it's like none of the I mean it's I mean it's perfect, it's Thanksgiving. Um I'm just kidding. And it's like, you know, it doesn't, it's not like you're gonna eat the turkey or the cranberries, like you you're probably gonna have both, you know. Um, and that's okay. And it and it it does speak to, I think, though, so many cultural expectations that we have put on grievers, especially in faith circles, of like, hey, you need to get over it real quick because like the Lord doesn't want you sad, and your sadness is really uncomfortable for us, you know, because like we're supposed to be happy and joyful all the time, and it's like, not really, yeah, yeah, exactly. They literally, I mean, I was reading the other day, and I was like, these read like mini panic attacks, they really do, you know, and it's like it's so beautiful to read scripture and see humanity just splayed out in all its glory within scripture, and it's like, okay, if that's in scripture, exactly this is the human experience, you know. The Lord is not, you know, he's not bothered by by any of it, you know. And I just yeah, I just I wish that kind of freedom and permission for all of us to be able to just walk through our heart, you know, embrace the good and and just love each other well, you know, love each other where we're at and not try to, you know, curate, curate these things, you know, to make other people feel more comfortable, you know. Right. Or try to fix people. Yeah, or try to fit right. It is it is perfectly okay. It's okay.

SPEAKER_01 44:47

Yeah. And I think, you know, I even myself sometimes it's like, I don't know how to, you know, you don't know what to say sometimes, right?

SPEAKER_02 44:53

I know.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

Of course. Like, what would you say to somebody who's like, I don't like uh I don't even know what to say? Like what would you say? Would you just say, what would you say to somebody who doesn't know what to say?

SPEAKER_00 45:05

To someone who to someone who is grieving, is that what you mean?

SPEAKER_01 45:11

So maybe, you know, let's just, for example, um, let's just say, you know, one of my friends' um husbands, you know, passed away recently and you just don't know what to say. Like, and I've had moments like that with different scenarios where it's like um you don't know what to say. So what would you say to those people who don't know what to say?

SPEAKER_00 45:33

I think one of the one of the one of the best ways that you can honor that person and what has happened is just to acknowledge what has happened. Um I know for me, it it was never, you know, I had so many people who and it made so much sense because I was this way too. Before I walked through something like this, I was very tiptoe-y, right? Like you're like, I just tiptoe through it, felt like they were landmines. Like, I don't want to say the person's name to like bring it up, but I don't want to end, but I don't want to not say anything because then it's like I'm not being, you know, considerate at all. It's so hard. So for me, what I have found is I always I always acknowledge and honor. If it's someone who has passed, I always honor them by saying their name. Um, because what I what I found out after my husband died, it's like I'm always thinking of him. It's not like if somebody says Eric's name, all of a sudden they brought it up and it was, you know what I mean? Like they ruined my name, and now I have to think about him. You're always thinking about the person, they're always on your mind. And so acknowledging them and just even saying their name would feel for me personally, it felt so good because it was like, oh, they they are acknowledging who it was and what happened, if that makes sense. Yeah, um, but I think honestly, not only just acknowledging the person, but just acknowledging how hard it is. You know what I mean? Like this is so, so hard. This is so hard. You're going through so much, you know, like just just a simple acknowledgement um is just is just so sweet, you know.

SPEAKER_01 47:20

Yes. Thank you for sharing that. Um then if somebody were to like I guess this is where I'm going here. Um I'm sure during your time, like people came and helped. Like, what what is like the most helpful thing somebody can tangibly do in that, you know, you know, in those moments, like to help out.

SPEAKER_00 47:40

Yeah, the most tangible thing that I found um is when somebody would make a very specific offer to me. Um, so instead of saying, hey, let me know if there's anything you need, or hey, text me if you need help, um, those kind of statements put all the work and pressure and responsibility on me. So now I have now I have to message or call that person back or email them and say, Hey, can you mow my yard at 4 p.m. on Friday? It's a lot of mental energy and it feels like you offered help, but you gave me a job because now I have to figure out how you need to help me. Um, and so um, so it kind of has many times kind of like the reverse effect that you would want. So I always tell people, be just super specific. Hey, I am I would love to drop dinner off at your house at 5:30 on Tuesday. Is that okay? Does that work for you? I have some time on Friday to mow your lawn if that would be something that you would love. I can be there at 6 p.m. Does that work for you? And then it's just like, oh yes, that works. And then it's like you don't have to do any, you know what I mean? To do any work um or any extra thinking, which is always a gift in grief because you're just your system is so overloaded.

SPEAKER_01 49:02

That is so good. It just another key for somebody, you know, because we we're all gonna walk through these times, right? Yeah, um, you did you mentioned you're a grief coach. Um, for for somebody who doesn't know what a grief coach is. Um, could you tell us a little bit more about what you do, how you help people?

SPEAKER_00 49:19

Yeah. So um so many of us, um we all, well, first of all, we're all gonna go through grief at some point, um, if not many points through our lives. And um, so many of us have not been taught um what grief does to our brains and our bodies, um, and just the different layers of impact that grief has on us. And what I have found as a grief coach, um, what I help people do is really understand um how it affects your brain and your body and all of all of the different things so that you can take some agency back and feel like you can step back into some authority. So grief coaches are really, really good at focusing on present moments and practical support, forward movement, you know, just how to take that loss and integrate that loss into our everyday living so that you are able to not just honor what has happened and and hold that and carry that well, but you're also able to still get up every morning, right? Still contend for joy, still, you know, just you know, make it through your everyday functioning, everyday life, all of those kinds of things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 50:48

So such a, I mean, so special, honestly. Like that's the word that's coming for me. It's just yeah, I can only imagine like how special it is for you to come alongside somebody. Could would you be able to share maybe a testimonial without naming a name? Um, because we're we talked before, we're both coaches and we're very confidential with names. Where is the we're not gonna tell you? So don't even try. Don't try to tell get us to tell you.

SPEAKER_00 51:12

We won't um well, there are there are many, many testimonials, but I think one one particular this this isn't particular to one person, but I've heard it said over and over is this idea that I had no idea that my brain was responding this way because of grief. I didn't understand why my nervous system was acting a certain way. I didn't know how grief was affecting it. I didn't know that, like, this is why I feel this way, or this is why I can't, oh, I can't stop this spiral, or this is why. And so the grief coaching and just having somebody who can create that emotional safety for you and who has that expertise, what it does is it gives you, it gives you so much freedom because instead of feeling like like kind of like shaming yourself, like, why can't I get it together? Why can't I snap out of this? Why can't I, you know, make it through three hours of my day without XYZ? Why can't, you know, like we're so hard on ourselves when you have a grief coach who's working with you and who understands all these things and can tell you, like, of course, like, of course you're in, you know, freezer fly. Of course you feel freaked out when this happens. Of course you're on edge. Of course you can't, you know, all of these different things. Um, it just gives so, so much freedom. Um, I've heard that over and over and over from people who are like, I had no idea. I thought like grief was just an emotional thing. I thought it was a feeling thing. I didn't realize it was affecting my appetite, it was affecting my sleep, it was affecting, you know, all of these different things. And when you understand all of that, then you can grow in so much self-compassion for yourself and so much self-awareness so that you can begin to really take agency back over your life.

SPEAKER_01 53:08

Yes. And I mean, you've walked it too. So you know deeply what they've been through and you can empathize on a way that maybe a lot of people around them can't.

SPEAKER_00 53:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:21

They don't maybe they don't have a lot of people in their life that that get it, right?

SPEAKER_00 53:25

Yeah. I always tell people when you are ready for a grief coach, it would be really wise to find one who has walked through significant loss. Um, just because, and there are very few, like very few. I mean, most people go into grief coaching is because, oh my gosh, this loss affected me. This loss had a significant impact. And like I want to help other people who are like feeling what I'm feeling. And so it's very kind of rare that you would not find a grief grief coach who has walked through loss, but I always do say that because it's like you want you want someone to create that emotional safety and that space for you who truly, truly understands and is right there in it with you, you know.

SPEAKER_01 54:14

Exactly. How many like what what would somebody like if somebody's listening in today and like what does it look like for them to like work with you? Is it a program for a certain amount of time or do you meet every week, every couple weeks? What does that look like?

SPEAKER_00 54:27

Yeah, so right now um I am between coaching programs because I'm actually working on my first manuscript for my first book. And so thank you. So I um have a really limited spot of coaching spots. If somebody was interested in that, they can just reach out to me on Instagram and we can we can chat privately about that. Um but yes, I am not, I I usually have like these big coaching, like group coaching programs that are open and everything right now. Um, the Lord has just been liking to set that aside right now while you while you finish your manuscript. So that's I'm trying to be obedient in that. Um, but I do have um I do have like private coaching spots and those kinds of things. If anybody is like, man, I could really use this support. And then if you're a widow, um, we actually have four spots, only four spots left in our retreat at the end of January. And so if that's something that you know is of interest, definitely reach out about that.

SPEAKER_01 55:29

Okay. Do you have like a website that shares more about the retreat?

SPEAKER_00 55:34

Yes, I do. And I can send you that link if you want me to yeah, I'll send you that link. And then also if you go to my Instagram, um, you can click the link in in my bio and it'll take you to all kinds of things. Okay. What is your Instagram handle? It is at Bethany.an dot spec.

SPEAKER_01 55:54

Okay. Are you an A-N-N? Yes, A-N-N. Okay. My middle name is A-N-N-E. So we just want to make sure we got that right. So, and I'll be sure to link all of her um, you know, website, Instagram, all the things in the show notes so you can easily find her and and reach out. Well, you have been such a blessing today. I've learned so much. And as we close today, I would love for you to just get in mind somebody who's listening in today. And just um, do you have anything else that you'd like to share with them? Any words of encouragement, any words of wisdom? And then would you pray us out today?

SPEAKER_00 56:28

Yeah, absolutely. Um man, I think um what keeps coming to mind is that hope is a muscle. It's really random. It's really random, but um, it's something that we have to contend for and it's something that we have to work out and it's something that we can ask for. And so if you are someone who is like, gosh, I'm just low on hope, um, I would just encourage you to just seek the Lord and ask for more hope. Um, and just ask that um you would just have fresh eyes. I think a fresh vision is such a gift, especially when it comes to hope. And so um, and I'm praying that prayer for myself at the top of the list all the time as well, is that like hope isn't just a feeling, you know. Um, it's not just this surfacey, happy, good little, you know, rainbow feeling. Um, so when we talk about like this biblical gospel of hope, uh man, I just I keep just praying for eyes to notice it and see it and to really um really cling to it. And um yeah, I would love to pray for us. Yes, thank you. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, God, so much for today. Thank you for this conversation. I just ask that um whoever's listening would just feel a fresh wind of your presence, that they would feel um a fresh depth of a hope and a peace that can only be found through here. We just thank you um that you see our stories, that you know our stories, that you know us, that nothing is hidden from you, and that we can trust you even in the really, really hard times, even in those deep valleys, that um, man, you see our suffering, you came for our suffering, you died for our suffering. Um, and that through our suffering and through the hard, painful times, um we get to experience you and your provision and your comfort in just new ways. And so we thank you for those, even though it's not it's not always fun and it's not always what we choose. Um, but we trust you and we thank you so much for loving us so well. In your name we pray.

SPEAKER_01 58:52

Amen. Amen. Well, Bethany, thank you so much for being a brave voice who's setting so many free. I'm gonna close with our anchoring verse, which is may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope. And that's Romans 15, 13. So thank you for being here today. I will be back with another episode next week. Thanks, listeners. Thank you.