He Was Winning on Paper but Losing His Peace in Real Life with Jason Heinritz

In this powerful episode of Hope Unlocked, Jason Heinritz shares his journey from workaholism, numbing, and chasing status to living set apart through surrender, spiritual discipline, and trust in God’s provision. We talk about faith, marriage, fatherhood, Sabbath rest, boundaries, business, and building a life rooted in peace instead of performance. Jason also shares the heart behind his book Wake Up Jesus People and the 40 Forge Challenge, a biblically grounded reset focused on prayer, scripture, fasting, worship, and lasting transformation. This conversation will stir your faith, sharpen your priorities, and call you higher.

Jason's contact info:

Website - wakeupjesuspeople.com

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Intro

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Welcome to the Hope Unlock Podcast. I'm your host, Kristen Kurtz, and I'm also the founder of New Wings Coaching. I help and empower wild-hearted and adventurous women of faith feeling caged and stuck, unlock their true purpose and potential, break free from limitations, and thrive with confidence, courage, and hope. If you're curious to learn more about coaching with me, head to NewWinksCoaching.net and be sure to explore the show notes for ways to connect with me further. Get ready to dive in as we uncover empowering keys and insights in this episode. So tune in and let's unlock hope together. Welcome to the Hope Unlocked Podcast. I'm Kristen Kurtz, your host. I pray this episode is like a holy IV of hope for your soul. Please help me welcome Jason Heinrich to the show. I'm excited to have him here today. We just chatted for a little bit before we got it start got started. And I'm just excited for him to share his testimony and um part of his story today. So if you could just tell us a little bit about yourself before we get into it, that would be amazing.

SPEAKER_03 1:13

Of course, Kristen. Hello. So for me, I mean we could get into a lot of details on my story, but the condensed version is I'm a

Jason’s Backstory And Direct Sales

SPEAKER_03 1:22

Wisconsin guy, born and raised, been there pretty much my whole life in my 20s. I lived one foot in the world, one foot out, had a lot of fun. I'm in direct sales selling cuckoo cutlery. So it's a lot of like uh party hard and work hard, and it's all you know, entrepreneurship. So that was a lot of fun. And I was young and single in my 20s, and then settled down in my 30s and got married. Uh, we have a couple kids now, and uh, we just moved from Wisconsin to Washington about six months ago to help start a church. So that's been a big mission of ours. I'm still working virtually for uh being the manager for Wisconsin. And then just recently in the last year, came out with a book called Wake Up Jesus People, and then also a journal with it, and then there's also 40 Forge Challenge. So that's kind of my very quick version of where I'm at now.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Well, let's let's back it up a little bit. Um the word entrepreneur really stands out to me when you shared that. Um, are you like first generation entrepreneur? Are you like, is it in your blood? Is this something generational? Like, what does that look like for you?

SPEAKER_03 2:32

It's not in my blood. So coincidentally, my dad, he he does own his own, he did own his own electrical business, but he was an employee for himself. So he didn't really, even though he was an entrepreneur, he really wasn't. Uh so if that makes sense, he was just an electrician uh for himself and um didn't really understand, you know, delegation, marketing, um, any of that stuff. Just a great guy, great at his job, but I did not learn really anything entrepreneurial from him. It's all from starting in direct sales after my freshman year in college, is where I got it.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

Okay. So freshman year in college. So how many how many years ago is that?

SPEAKER_03 3:11

21 years ago.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

How many?

SPEAKER_03 3:13

21.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Wow. So basically half of your life almost?

SPEAKER_03 3:18

Oh, yeah, half my life.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Wow. How did you get into it?

SPEAKER_03 3:22

So I got a letter in the mail. We're we're really big, we're really big recruiters as a company. You know, it's in sales, so you know it's you kind of figure up it's not for you pretty quickly. And they send out, we send out thousands of mailers to young people see if they're looking for work, and I was one of them back in uh 2004.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

So this got sent to you at school?

SPEAKER_03 3:45

Uh basically everyone who um is basically graduating senior or freshman or sophomore in college, um, as long as they're registered somewhere in public records, they typically get a letter.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Okay. So what led you to jump in? Like what what was the the yes?

SPEAKER_03 4:01

Yeah, it was I was sick of working at Culver's. Uh that was a couple years of flipping burgers. So I was sick of that.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Now you have to tell people what Culver's is because I'm in Minnesota. You're you were in Wisconsin, and people, you know, around the world, I don't think it's everywhere. I think it's of it's northern people, right?

SPEAKER_03 4:19

Right. Yeah. Really good butter burgers, really like just gooed up with a bunch of butter, which makes it so good. And uh they have amazing custard. It's uh yeah, it's it's it's a burger place. So it's so that was great for two years. And then I tried working with my dad as an electrician, but I hated it. Labor work. I just can't do it. I'm not that tough uh for that. Although I loved being an athlete as a team captain of football on track. So I had the itch to be a leader and to work hard and see see the fruits of my labor. And so just being paid hourly at Culver's and then as an electrician, it didn't matter how many wires I pulled, how many burgers I flipped. I was paid the same amount per hour. And then Cutco allowed me to kind of see the fruits of my labor for putting in some extra hard work.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

Okay. You know, I it it's interesting because I I was actually part of um that realm for a long time. And I that was actually how I first like that was my first entrepreneurial pursuit, besides like having garage sales as a child, and it's in my blood. So um I

Entrepreneurship Roots And Early Career

SPEAKER_00 5:26

think what you said, there's there's a lot of you know, hard work, hard partying, right? So, like what did that look like for you? Um, you know, getting into it, like just learning how to do business. And were you is is this a like Christian company? I don't, I'm not super familiar with Cutcoat. I mean, I I've heard of it, so I don't want you to think I don't know what it is, but like is it a Christian run company? Like, like what does that look like for you? Like learning entrepreneurial shift? Like, was it all grind? Was it there's there like grace in it? What did that look like for you to start?

SPEAKER_03 6:02

Yeah, totally. So it it's not a Christian company, but there does happen to be a lot of Jesus people in the company. And then direct sales, obviously. You know, we can share our faith and beliefs more, but um, it it was just it, it was it so I loved it. Um, I learned so much. I grew so much, Christian. It was my it was my drug. It was my idol. It was it was I was putting up on a pedestal and it was my God in my 20s. And so I was living one foot in one foot in the world, like I said, one foot out, where as a Sunday Christian, I loved Jesus. I was raised as a Christian, but wasn't fully living it out in my 20s. And it was grind it out, work hard, uh, make a lot of money, win a lot of trips, have a lot of fun, um, party, have a lot of fun, and then uh a lot of fun, yep. And then uh yeah, and then I just kind of I had some wake-up calls there um around 30. Okay. And so I did make some changes. But uh yeah, I'd say that's that's how it works.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Okay. Would you be open to sharing a little bit more about maybe one of those wake-up calls?

SPEAKER_03 7:12

100%. That's why I'm here. So I would say my first one was I called off an engagement. So I was one foot in the world, one foot out, having a lot of fun. Um, I I really was a pretty good, like, pretty wholesome, you know, person throughout my whole life, but didn't really um, you know, do really much, you know, as a good Christian boy, I'd say, until like 19 years old, and then started drinking a little bit, started getting high, started sleeping around a little bit. And so, you know, was definitely um drifting away from from my morals and who I wanted to to really be. And then uh in my upper 20s, I met someone and we started having a great time. We were partying a lot, our whole relationship was based on sex, pleasures, and fun. So I was caught. I was like, I was like, this is great, this is so much fun, but it's all based on the wrong things. And then within six months, Kristen asked her to marry me. And I also um, she was living with us. Okay, so I was living. So get this situation. So I'm a hungry entrepreneur, chasing money, chasing wealth, chasing accolades, chasing ego while living with three non-Christian roommates who are partying a ton, and had my girlfriend at the time ask her to move in with us because she was always there anyway. So just a recipe for disaster. So about two months before we we got we were uh engaged, we um or before the the actual wedding, um, I called it off. It was just I saw two red flags, I was feeling this angst of just this just isn't right. God woke me up. I I you know, my got my uh my parents and also our marriage counselors um also had some questions. And so got to be two months before all the down payments were sent, um, all the all the invites were sent. I was really nervous and I was like, am I really going

Faith On The Sidelines And Idol Of Work

SPEAKER_03 9:13

to go through with this? And I said, no. We're you know, I'd much rather delay this wedding and call off a marriage because we are unequally yoked. We're both pretending to be someone for each other, and this just isn't gonna work. Um, so yeah, I called it off two months before. Um, and it was a great decision, one of the best decisions I've made, one of the toughest decisions I've made. And then I spent um a few months, like kind of down, um, down a little bit. And then in the fall of 2012, it was really really shifted to being, you know, on this trajectory of who I am now. So I dove back into church, joined a bunch of men's groups, I stopped the dating, I stopped uh looking for a mate at all for about a year. I dove into morning routines and um really just kind of dove into to this personal growth journey even more that I already had learned with the company, but just now at a at a different level, more serious level. So that was a big turning point.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

That's huge. I mean, you look back now, and that was what 14 years ago. Yeah. Like even when you share it, yeah. Like, does do you still viscerally feel like those mo that moment?

SPEAKER_03 10:25

Like, yeah. I I remember being really uh really blinded and caught up in all this and realizing, all right, devil, you almost got me. And I I can see and I I can see how easy it is for people in the same situation to just go through with it and go, it's gonna get better, it's gonna change, it's gonna be fine. And I'm just so thankful that I was listening and I listened to to God's prompting and I just I call it off because man, that I I look at how thankful I am and how blessed I'm in my life now, and how different, completely different it would have been if I didn't listen to some of God's nudges there.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Yeah. How did like how did he how did he speak to you? Like, how does he speak to you now, even? I feel like that's something that um you know a listener might be thinking, like, well, how did how did he hear him? Like, what did that look like for him?

SPEAKER_03 11:18

Yeah, so there's nothing audible, and even still now, I don't hear anything audible from from from God. But back then it was it was just I I could sense this, like this, this, this unease. And so God is a He's a God of peace, a God of joy, God of love. And although it's having these instant pleasures and this fun, there's always something we're like, is this really who I want to be? Is this really uh this just doesn't feel right? I don't have a lot of joy. I don't have a lot of instant pleasure, but I don't have a lot of like long-lasting joy and peace about this. It's just I don't, I feel, I don't want to say yucky, but I I didn't feel like I didn't feel like in connection with with God and what he wants for me. So just these constant, I guess just this constant feel. And the more I so thankfully I was still involved, you know, in church, I was still listening to worship music, I was still um seeking his wisdom. And I had

The Broken Engagement Wake-Up

SPEAKER_03 12:14

some some some some some great counsel from the marriage counselors and my parents as well. And I they just basically said, you know, if she doesn't change, like because I brought up some some concerns. I was like, if she doesn't change, I don't know if this is gonna work out. Like uh, but I believe she's she's she's she's going to change and we're gonna work it out. They're like, well, Jason, not everybody does. So if she didn't change, she stayed exactly how she was, same mentality. And I was feeling resistance as well. So I brought this up a lot of times to her of how I want to stop sleeping around or stop sleeping with her, be the be before marriage. I want to make church a priority, I want to um, you know, do these things that are biblical, and she resisted it. So those were also some moments of testing. And then uh when they said, All right, if she doesn't change, would you marry her? And I said, No way. So that's where and I spent a month or two debating how to bring it up or when to bring it up.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Oh my gosh, I can only imagine. Well, I mean, I look at, you know, we look at um, you know, obviously you listen to God first and foremost. You're discerning um his voice and in the ways that, you know, you were picking things up, right? And to have people in your life that were willing to ask those hard questions, who are willing to be like that iron sharpens iron. And I'm sure maybe at first you maybe were like, hmm, like I don't really know if I want to listen to you. You know, some people might be thinking, well, I'm on this trajectory in my life, like, don't tell me what to do, especially like some of you listeners out there, like you might have parents. You're an adult, and your parents might be asking you questions. But um, you know, as a parent myself, and as you being a parent, I have older, you know, 17 and 20-year-old young men, and we're always a parent, right? We're always gonna be a parent, and we want the best for our kids. So thankful for your parents and those advisors slash you know, mentors in your life that were willing to ask you those hard questions. So you you had that turning point, got plugged, like really plugged back into church. Um men, you had a men's group that you're part of. Is that what I was hearing? Like a small group.

SPEAKER_03 14:30

A few of them actually. I was involved in three three church things. I was going, I was attending one church, I was going to a men's group at another church, and I was in a young adult's uh ministry at another church. So I was I was getting all of it.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

Yeah. So what would what would you say was like the the biggest breakthrough that you received being plugged in with those groups to start out? Because were you that plugged in when you were like a teenager child as well?

SPEAKER_03 14:56

I was in high school, but it was more because my parents wanted me to. Okay. And it wasn't really my my love for Jesus or my faith, it was my family's faith. And so when I started transforming the world in my 20s and um, you know, accommodating to what everyone else was doing around me, um, it really was a wake-up call and realized, holy cow, I've really slipped really far. And it just 1% today has gotten me really far away from who I wanted to become. So yeah, I dove back in. I was reading the Bible then every day. Um, I was attending um, you know, conferences, I was listening to Christian podcasts, all of that. That really helped fill my mind to kind of re renew my mind and give me a fresh start. I also, uh, so so my best man, Justin, who gave me uh some really good advice, is after I called it off, he mentioned to me a series, a sermon series by by Andy Stanley, um, who uh it was basically it was uh it was called The The New Rules of Love, Sex, and Dating. And the whole point of his four, four or five part series was instead of looking for the right person, become the right person, the person you're looking for is looking for. So from there I made a list, Kristen, of all the things I would ideally want in a mate, all the things I ideally would not want, which were like 25 to 30 things aside. And then I picked and I circled five non-negotiables on either side. So it was so clear that after a year, because he gave a challenge in the series of take a year, zero dating, zero partying, and all that, and just grow you closer to to God, um, all this. And then when I got back on the dating scene a year later, it was very easy for me to look at that list and go in an easy yes or no. It doesn't matter how emotionally I'm feeling. This is logically like what who is the type of person who I'm looking for? So if this is the person I'm looking for, that means I need to be this awesome man to attract and retain the person when when when I do find them.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

That's incredible. Like, how many well, is this for men, this book? Would you say or for anybody?

SPEAKER_03 17:16

So the series? So the series, it's just on on YouTube?

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 17:20

Is it for men and women? Uh men and women, but it's geared, it's geared towards men.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

Okay. Have you ever talked to anybody who's like I'm I'm thinking of Esther. You know, Esther had her time of preparation, and I think it was a year, right? Have you heard of any other like men in your life who've done anything like this before? I I haven't personally in my world. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 17:43

Yeah. I mean, I guess growing up in personal growth and direct sales and that, I have had uh heard of some people doing something like this that'd say maybe not as intense as as I did. Um, but also I love sharing it with people, and I've heard of people doing it after I've shared it with them. But uh I've definitely heard of people making a list of what they would ideally want and not want. Um, but not always uh a year of cleansing, right? Repurposing and stopping some of the bad habits. So uh no, not not as much.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Okay. So you you had a you had a top five.

Hearing God And Wise Counsel

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Do you remember what those five were?

SPEAKER_03 18:20

Yeah, so well, so the short answer is I don't think so. But if I if I remember, so because I had a bunch of things written down. Um so some of the non-negotiables were can't be uh so so can't be a smoker, um, needs needs needs to love Jesus, needs to be healthy, needs to be positive, um, needs to be like a dreamer, like have uh a hopeful future mentality. There was um there were some attractive things as well, just like I had to be, you know, obviously I had to think they were really, really attractive. Um what else? I was trying to think of the non-negotiables. I can think of a bunch of general ones, but it what did help though is I made not just the ideal of yes, the ideal of no. And yes, a lot of them you think would would be opposite, but there were some things that that were that were very clear on separate sides that did always correlate to uh to the opposite of of one side. So it was very helpful to make both sides of the of the ideal and not ideal.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

That's incredible. So single people out there, listen to Jason on this. And like what would be um, I don't know, as you were like getting back into the dating scene, was there any I don't know, I'm just wondering if there was any like funny stories or any like random, ridiculous dating things that you experience getting back into you know, coming in as like a purified man into the scene. Like, what did that look like for you?

SPEAKER_03 19:49

They were flocking. No, I'm just kidding. No, they uh I really I tried the online dating scene, it just didn't work. Um, me being in you know Green Bay, Wisconsin, all the decent options were in Chicago or Minneapolis. Uh so it was hours and hours away. And so I never went on a single date from that. And I actually had written it off, so just maybe for your audience to not give up because God's working behind the scenes. And so I I almost I basically gave up with online dating after a few months. I'm like, cool. God wants me to be Paul. He wants me to be single, you know. I want, you know, he wants me to be influential in the church and for his kingdom. And then sure enough, after I had made my my logical decision, all of a sudden a friend DMs me on uh on Facebook about this high school. This so this this girl, Michelle, was um was uh she worked with me um and she went to high school with with my now wife Abby. And she messaged me and said, Hey, I have this friend Abby, who's like she's totally awesome, she's single. She, you and her are like the same. You guys are both posting all over about Jesus and about positivity and about health on your Facebook. And like, I don't know how you guys are both single. You guys got you guys need need to meet each other. So I get we kind of got set up and then we met in a coffee shop after about a week of communicating together. And man, that was a really awesome conversation, a few hour hangout, and sure enough, I'm like throughout the whole thing. I don't believe in love at first sight. I really don't, you know, but I do think there's signs, and I logically went home afterwards after having this conversation. I'm like, she's so great. I feel like she's like the one. I look back in my journal where I made the list, and she was she was not just all of the the non-negotiable, she was she was basically everything. So it's such an easy decision to go, yep, all right, God, that's pretty exciting. So funny how we just set things up.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

Wow. So you didn't have to go through like just horrible situations. Because I've heard I mean I've been with my husband since we were 18, so it's been 29 years, and I cannot even imagine like this these last few decades of trying to date with, especially this decade, um, or even you know, like technology and social media, and I can't even imagine. Like, what would you say to somebody besides doing this list? What what other like advice would you give to others who are who are really seeking and chasing after Jesus and trying to date in this world the way it is?

SPEAKER_03 22:35

Yeah, fish in the right pond. So what's most important to you? If it is Jesus, which I hope it is if

Becoming The Right Person

SPEAKER_03 22:41

you're listening, you know, fish at church. And you know, if if if if you're you know, if your fitness is your idol or number one, well then look look look at at your gym. But I would say for you know the listeners here, it's probably Jesus. So go to the conferences, join the young adults ministry, um, join other groups, get involved and serve. Because when you're serving right along with someone who's a servant's heart who is their church, and I mean you're you're gonna run into people and God's going to intervene. So do that and he's gonna bring the right people to you.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

Yeah. And I I noticed you have a sweatshirt on today that says set apart.

SPEAKER_03 23:18

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

So um is there some I mean, it's significant for what you're talking about today, I believe. But is there something for you in wearing that? Like I love like graphic, you know, tease with words. I love words. So I don't know, I just felt led to ask like for you specifically, like what does that mean for you?

SPEAKER_03 23:37

Yeah, well, for my wife and I, leading our young adults ministry, we came out with these sweatshirts, so it's being, you know, being conformed by Christ and not not being transformed to the world uh essentially. So yeah, being set apart, being holy, being different. And so, you know, if we want to have a great, long-lasting, awesome relationship with Jesus at the center, we need to be different, we need to be set apart. And it's just, you know, we're only on this earth for a hundred years. And are you thinking from eternity or are you thinking from the perspective of of this of this earthly life? And so um it's it's a matter of when you're being set apart, you're also gonna meet others who are on that same journey, and it's gonna be long-lasting. Um, obviously, you want them to be cute, but it's like it's not gonna be, it's not gonna be all about founded on the pleasures and the partying and the and the looks. It's on that internal foundation that Jesus is at the center and these are both pursuing Christ. Therefore, as you're closer to Christ, right, with the with the God triangle, as you're closer to Christ, you're also gonna grow growing closer to to together. And my wife and I have been married for about 10 years now. And for sure, yeah, for sure, it's you know, it's not easy. And it's it's hard even with Christ at the center. Yeah, and so man, you know, whatever you can do, and then lean on him, and it's gonna set you up for long-lasting marriage and thrive in marriage, along with then raising great kids who are following his path as well.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

Yes. Well, I love that. I love set apart um Romans 12.2 is what you're referring to, right? That's I call it my birth verse because I was born on 12-2. Yes, that is so on point. Um, you mentioned one of my favorite words, different. Um, and I I do believe as an entrepreneur that um everything we need to do needs to be different than what the world would would tell us to um, I mean, obviously we're gonna gain wisdom. We can grab some things from, you know, wisdom from the world, right? From people who maybe aren't fully um walking in that um kingdom mindset. What would you say is most different about you when it comes to working in that, you know, direct sales space, being an entrepreneur? Like how do you set yourself apart from others, especially in the space that you're in?

SPEAKER_03 26:05

Yeah. Well, that goes into another wake-up moment, Kristen, which is so that there's a lot, there's actually two wake up moments here. So stop me if I talk too long.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

But you roll with it.

SPEAKER_03 26:17

Yeah, so you know, after this, so I found found my ideal mate, she's awesome, we we get married, but God is still not number one. The idol of work is still number one. So in my 30s, for the most part, it was a cool God, I'm following you, I'm loving you, I'm going to church, I'm not just a Sunday Christian. I am I'm in it. I'm every day. I'm doing something called the sacred start. So so the sacred start. So it's five things. So it's exercise every day, journaling every day, praying every day, affirmations every day, and then Bible reading every day. So those five things, and we can get more into that after this, but I've been doing that since 2012. So that sets me apart, but it also makes

Meeting Abby And Dating With Clarity

SPEAKER_03 27:00

me like I'm in it, I'm a daily uh practicing Jesus person, but work was still my idol. And I was claiming God was, but if you look at my mentality and my schedule, it was work. So I was working still, you know, we this is all in person. I was basically in the office for like 10 to 12 hours a day, Monday through Friday, another day on the weekend. And it just it wasn't um, it wasn't long lasting. I wasn't just in my 20s, you know, addicted to building this thing anymore. It was, hey, I have a wife and now I have a kid and then and then two, and then two kids. So I can't keep doing it this way. And I was justifying, Kristen, as well, that um from my 20s, what carried over in my 30s is I was still numbing myself. So at night, probably four or five, six nights a week, I was numbing myself with either a weed gummy or either a couple of drinks. And I wasn't getting uh like wasted or blazed or anything where it was like I was like out of it. It was just enough to like I'd feel it. And I I definitely wasn't my full self. I was justifying that I was being present and turning off the work thing, but I didn't know how else to do it. I was just so conditioned to work, work, work until I could like veg out and be numbed out a little bit. So then I could not worry about all the work stuff in direct sales as an entrepreneur and as a leader. So it was the only way I was relying on substances, substances instead of Jesus. And so throughout my 30s, and as my wife kind of saw what was happening and how I was hiding some things from her too. And I just I I I knew when I was being called out by her and I was having some friends question a few things. Um, I knew I had to stop. So this is a big wake-up call in 2023 as I finally stopped. I threw out all, you know, threw it all out. I um I stopped justifying and I stopped. I just stopped cold turkey and I had some accountability partners at church from from some men's groups. I had my wife who's rooting me on as well. And I just had to make some changes, and it made me stop relying on that evening switch and a substance. And now cool, I can pray, I can listen to worship music, whatever can get me in a peaceful state of mind and turn off the this work, this work brain. And and so that was really a big wake-up call in 2023, uh big, big transformation. And then I got I got rebaptized as an adult as well, and um it was great. And then my wife and I also then took over young adults ministry in uh 2024, and then sure enough, when I stopped, and that's also when I stopped some of the um some of the workaholism. Okay. So up until then, no, we so that's so in 2020 we had our first child, and then in 2022 we had our second child, and in 2022, that was a big wake-up call where it was like, I can't believe how big our oldest is. Just two years later, compared to the new baby, like, holy cow, two years went by so quick. I need to stop being a workaholic, I need to start setting boundaries. So I also starting in 2023, I basically said, I'm only available between nine and four, essentially, um, on a daily basis.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

I love it.

SPEAKER_03 30:23

And so that's it. And I had to get creative of how to do this business and how to work that way and how to delegate a prop you know properly. And so that's been a big, you know, set apart difference where now, I mean, I'm only working at this point between 9:30 and 4 because I drop off my my boys by then and they come home from school by then. So it's a good good boundaries, but also it's including everything podcast interviews, chiropractor, haircuts, everything that is scheduled that I have to be at is only between those times, including work time. So it's been a huge blessing to figure that out and also not, you know, just to turn off and go, God, I trust you. I'm actually taking a Sabbath. Um, and now I even do so. Saturdays are family days, Sundays are Sabbath days. So sure, do some planning and I might like respond to an email or or a message here and there, but I'm doing nothing scheduled work-related, which is so different from my from everyone else who I work with because they're busting it every day, every Sunday. They're working a ton. And so for me to uh to let go of that idol and finally surrender. Now, guess what happened? We had our best year ever, best office ever in the history of Wisconsin in 2024. And then again, we blew past that again. Um, this last year in 2025, and then now in 2026, we're going to hit another another milestone. So it's funny how crazy. I love it. When you actually put God first, yeah, he he blesses you.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

Yes. Say

Set Apart: Living Holy In Work And Love

SPEAKER_00 31:59

that again. Just that statement one more time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:02

When you put God first, he will bless you. And when you surrender your idols and actually make God your your idol, well, everything else is gonna fall into place.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

Oh, so good. I I feel like this is gonna bless so many people, especially um, you know, maybe if you're listening and you're in direct marketing or, you know, like network marketing. Um, and it's really any business. I think anybody can get kind of pulled into that grind, the hustle. Um, I I don't know about you, but I cannot stand when people say holy hustle. Those two words don't go together. What would you say to that?

SPEAKER_03 32:43

Yeah, I think it's hard for people to do it in a Christian way, meaning, yes. So, yes, I work really hard when I'm working. But holy hustle, I think people think that means the grind the 24-7 and he's gonna bless you and do it for his glory. But that's just a cop out. I was saying that too. But I was just doing that to justify my workaholism. And so I think it's it's the work hard. Yeah, God, like we he gave us talents, he gave us opportunity to earn and to influence. But if that is taking the place of God and your family, what's you know, what what's going on there? So yeah, holy hustle for limited time in the working hours.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

Yes, absolutely. I love that you've got your boundaries, you've got the the nine to four. Um, I'm I'm kind of like a 10, 10 to 4 or 5, depending on the day. And I I'm Monday through fry through Thursday taking calls from people. Friday is like my creative day. And my day, if I go to the grocery store and I just happen to like randomly talk to somebody and I have open time. I don't know if you you do anything like that too, where you have some like quote unquote flex time so that you're able to kind of stretch into something a little bit longer, like putting, you know, I I put like 15 minutes 15 to 30 minutes between scheduled calls for me to just even go for a quick walk or just do something because I came from corporate. I came from the grind of corporate for like 20 years. I left there like four years ago. And um, I don't know about you, but did it take a little while for your body, your mind, and your spirit to recalibrate into this new rhythm.

SPEAKER_03 34:26

Yes, it did, but I was so ready for it and it was so fulfilling. So I do, I mean, I call I like my my wife teases me for these acronyms, but uh for uh saying things like this. But like I go on worship walks. It's a little much easier in Seattle area now than it was in uh Wisconsin year round. But oh yeah, those 15-minute resets, get out in the sun. My neighbors think I'm crazy, and even did back in Wisconsin because I'd be outside 15 minutes out in the sun with my shoes off, getting connected to the ground, breathing, jumping around. And so it really is uh important. God created like our bodies are unbelievable. And when we give it the the the resources it needs that God has made out there for us to use and utilize, we're not gonna be as worn out and tired and all that. But yeah, I love I love that. And I also stopped, I tried to stop booking meetings one right after each other, and youth coaching calls too. You understand, like what like if you do that, that is exactly like if you if you had a church service um and it it ended at 10 30 and started at 10 30, that'd be chaos going back and forth, you know, or concert. Like you need that space between because each of these are events, and just to like decompress, get some air, get some sun, get some water for sure.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

Yes, because I it's fun. I like to say be like a plant. You need you need some sun, you need some water, you need some food, you need to be rooted, all the things. Um, so how many people like do you manage at this point, then?

SPEAKER_03 35:56

Sure. Well, that looks different, you know, for uh based on the timing of the year, but it's different where uh we have a lot of people we give a shot to, and we probably have half of them who are done within a month. They give the job a shot, it's not for them, not a big deal. Um, but I mean I recruited 200 plus people last year. So it means within you know their first month, you know, half of them are done. They gave it a shot, made some money, got some experience, realized all right, sales or entrepreneurship isn't for me. And that's fine. And then it works all the way up to where I have managers who work for me, have been with me for years, and I have even Cutco sales professionals who've been with me for like a decade, you know, 10 to 15 years who are doing this, you know,

Workaholism, Numbing, And Surrender

SPEAKER_03 36:42

full time. So it really depends. Um, and also since we work with a lot of college students, they, you know, they're just trying something out. You know, they're they have 20 jobs throughout college, they're figuring things out. So a lot of them it's just for a summer, it's for a semester. We have some really great stay-at-home moms, so it's perfect around kids' schedules and working at home. Um, but yeah, I would say in a typical time. So right now, currently, I have about 20 reps on the team and about five managers and about five cupcakes professionals. So I'd say about 30 now, and it's our slower time right now in the spring. Summer and winter break is huge for us.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

Okay. So have you been able to um just share your rhythms with your team and people that you work with, and even in the company as a as a like larger, you know, conglomerate. Like, have you been able to share what you shared here with me today to help others really walk this out in a healthy way?

SPEAKER_03 37:42

Yeah, I love doing it. Um, it's why I feel like I'm here. And for a decade probably, I claim this is my, you know, God has me placed here for a reason. This is my mission field, but I didn't really utilize it. And now in the last just probably four or five years, it's been all right, I'm on a mission. So we started uh a Cutco Christ, courage and community uh for C's, uh a C4 chat, we call it, uh trying to connect all the Jesus people in the company, which is great. Um, and then uh for sure I just gave a message the other week on I only use quotes from the Bible, so uh from the greatest self-help book ever. So that was fun. But it's it's for sure something where I kind of I check to see if they're you know, I love using the church analogies, yeah, Bible verses, all that. But if they're not a Jesus person yet, no, I I'm I'm not gonna I'm not gonna bring all that up. But I'll for sure ask people nonchalantly, hey, are you a churchgoer and start there? And if not, okay, not a big deal. But I still want to be a light for them. And anyone who is, just helping them blossom, helping them feel comfortable sharing, um, sharing their testimony and that. Um, it's great.

SPEAKER_02 38:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:52

And yeah, and I'd say something I wanted to mention too, that I think would go with still the story, but also where I'm at right now in the company, is um I did take a D motion two years ago, and it has been unbelievable. So um in 2019, again, chasing my my accolades and and uh status and and the idol of work, uh still it was the top promotion to what's called the division manager. And that was in 2019, I was jacked up, it was awesome. I I'd made it, and then um, yeah, it was about four or five years of struggle, frustration, um, just staying, staying in the same, you know, in the same same level. And I was just really struggling. I wasn't either God was blocking me from it or just my leadership ability wasn't there yet. But it was tough. It was really tough. And I I was really struggling uh with with uh with with with my work. And so after all the prayer and transition and surrendering as well, I basically told my manager, hey, I want, I don't know if I'm gonna leave the company, but this is Jeffy last year in my in my role. It's like, all right, we'll we'll we'll we'll see. So yeah, a year went by and I took a demotion, and it has been so freeing these last two and a half years because um I don't, you know, I've seen a lot of people come and go in this business and in every business. And it's very I'm the first person I'm aware of in the 21 years I've been here who took a demotion. Usually they they quit and then they blame, blame the the company, and they're too prideful to come back or um you know take a demotion. It's been awesome. I've definitely seen some looks and heard of some, you know, some people ask me questions in a curious way, but also a why, you know. Um you had a title and you had that role. Yeah, that that's been fun to share with people at conferences and events when they hear that.

SPEAKER_00 40:51

So if if I'm understanding correctly, just partly because I I did some of that in the past. Um when when you say a demotion, um, could you just share a little bit more of what that would mean for somebody if they're not they don't know what that means in this ground?

SPEAKER_03 41:06

Basically, I I was running basically it was a smaller tailor territory and less pay, and then you know, got promoted for a bigger territory and more pay and bonuses, and then I took a demotion back to smaller territory and less pay.

SPEAKER_00 41:25

Okay, so more freedom. No, yeah, more peace, more joy, yeah. All the fruit less. All the fruit. Yes. That's so good. Wow. Well, I love that you have walked this out and you're still walking it out. I know that there's gonna be more on this journey for you and the people that come around your world. I think you said you have a book.

SPEAKER_03 41:48

Sure do. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

And tell us more about your book. What's the name of the book? When did it publish? Where can they get it?

SPEAKER_03 41:54

Yeah, so I know people can't see it here, but uh I think you like the cover. But it's Wake Up Jesus People.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

Amazing.

SPEAKER_03 42:01

Life-giving disciplines to awaken the warrior within. So it's about two there's two ways I I like sharing it, but it's waking up as a Jesus person to wake up to be in the game and to not be a zombie and not be sleepwalking through life as Sunday Christians, not serving, not helping, not being like on the field of the actual players of the game. They're just the spectators going, all right, you know, what's you know, I'm like not really making as much of a difference as they could. So it's waking up to life, it's waking up to being more courageous, sharing your faith, having dreams again, uh believing all of that. And then a lot of it is just disciplines of what does it look like to be a Christian? Like there's there's all the books and sermons in that on like how to love more and how to um, you know, love God more and all this great stuff, but what does it practically look like? What what's what's the routine of a Jesus person? So it's all about uh that morning routine called a sacred start. I mentioned earlier. There's some of the habits I mentioned throughout the actual day. Um there's um there's journaling, there's there's a necessary night, uh, the nightly routine to get everything ready for the next day. There's uh weekly, weekly habits such as Sabbath and fasting and things of that nature. And then um, yeah, so that that's kind of an overview of it. And it came out a year ago.

Boundaries, Sabbath, And Best Years Yet

unknown 43:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 43:26

Um, you can find it on on Amazon or at wakeupjesuspeople.com.

SPEAKER_02 43:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 43:31

And there's a journal that goes with it as well. I tried out a bunch of journals and loved some, didn't didn't like others, but um, after buying other journals, I thought I know exactly what I want to write in here, and I know exactly what I want each day. So I came up with a partner journal uh with that as well. And then uh yeah, and then there's a challenge with it as well called the 40 Forge Challenge, which is basically a 40 day challenge. It's basically a Jesus version if you're listening. Listeners know about uh 75 Hard. It's like a Jesus version of that.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

Okay. Awesome. We have some similarities here. I I I created a program called 75 Whole like three years ago. Yeah. Because I was like, we gotta flip the script on this because it I don't know about you, but like I talked to some women who attempted 75 hard, yeah, and they couldn't get through it. It was too hard. It was like shame inducing, like and they just gave up. And it was like, yes, there's some like good principles in there, but it's just not, and even the symbol for it, I'm like, it's a school. It's like, thank you. Yeah, I'm not interested. Thank you, though.

SPEAKER_03 44:42

Oh, and there's a million people that supposedly have created that or have gone through it. I know that I mean, come on, let's make a Jesus version. So yeah, it's um it's kind of similar, but it's yeah, it's so I went for 40 days because it's biblical, right? So you think about in the Bible, I'm sure your listeners know, but you know, all the time, there's over a hundred times in the Bible that 40 is used, and it's examples of no whether Mount Moses was on Mount Sinai before uh receiving the Ten Commandments was 40 days, Israel in the wand wandering in the wilderness was 40 years, the flood was 40 days, Jesus is fast in the wilderness after being baptized 40 days, uh Jesus post-resurrection 40 days on earth before he ascended. So, you know, if you look at anytime you see 40 in the Bible, typically it's an it's a time marked of testing, preparation, or transition where God has prepared his people for a new stage of his plan. So, you know, you have the 75 days, like 75 hard. You have the sometimes people, the studies show habits take 21 days to form. So I just went biblical and did 40 days, and there's three versions of it. The lowest version is called 40 forge ignite.

SPEAKER_02 45:57

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_03 45:57

And it's just abstaining for 40 days from alcohol, drugs, and porn. So three things that have a lot of people, a lot of Jesus people caught up in chains, and then exercise for at least 15 minutes a day, Bible daily, and pray daily. So that's kind of the minimum all the way up to a 40 forge hard, which is pretty intense.

SPEAKER_00 46:17

Um do you want to hear that or should I of course well do you do you if you'd like to? I'm open to hearing it.

SPEAKER_03 46:24

Okay, cool. So sometimes I just I want to make sure I'm not saying too much between uh uh interaction. Um yeah, so 40 forge hard. So think about so this is intense. So it's the Daniel Fast Plus Protein.

SPEAKER_02 46:38

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03 46:39

Again, no alcohol, drugs, and porn, no social media, exercise for at least 40 minutes a day, read 10 pages of the Bible a day, yeah, pray daily, journal daily, do your 90-minute morning sacred start routine, which already includes all this essentially. Just get your butt up early and do it right away in the morning. You like this one, drink a gallon of water.

SPEAKER_00 47:01

There you go.

SPEAKER_03 47:02

And then uh worship music only.

SPEAKER_00 47:04

Amen.

SPEAKER_03 47:05

That's a 44 chart. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:07

Now, is this something that um that they're tracking through the journal then that you've created?

SPEAKER_03 47:14

So there is um there's not a tracker. I mean, there is. We have a WhatsApp chat, and there is, I don't have like a page that's a tracker, but on the journal, so they so they do end up getting a packet with seven chapters of the book and the 40 pages of journaling, um, along with some other social media things of uh being able to check things off or share of what day they're on, but there isn't a specific like app or tracker. It's more hey, what what what what works for you to track it? Yeah, it's uh kind of a run with it accountability.

SPEAKER_00 47:47

Yeah, I love it. Wow. So I do have to go back to the book a little bit. Um I always like to ask people who've written a book. Are you like somebody who thought you'd write a book? Are you would you consider yourself a prolific writer?

SPEAKER_03 48:00

Not at all. Nope. Okay, I can barely speak well. Say that again. I'm not a writer. Not a writer, but I did go through, so I I the so being being raised in direct sales and personal growth, I you know, I was always dreaming. We do dream sessions of like what's possible and what can you accomplish and use this as a vehicle to accomplish your dreams, and which is great and true, but um but yeah, but I thought, you know, why why not write a book during one of these? And I actually wrote a book prior to this.

SPEAKER_02 48:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:31

Um and I went through a self-publishing school, which really helped. And I spoke a lot of this, the the original book. So the first book was called Conquer the Post-College Passion Slump. And it was all about getting out there after college and um personal growth being the big reason you're gonna get ahead in life, not not your not your G GPA, essentially. Uh, but yeah, I basically spoke a lot of it where I would use voice memo to speak it into uh my notes and then copy and paste that into um a Word document. And then I had some editors and did a lot of back and forth. But that book wasn't very good. Um, it was okay. People said they liked it, but it wasn't anything big. And but it was really what I believe was a setup, Kristen, for for this one. Because when God put it back in my heart, when I've been practicing this morning routine for no 13, 14, 15 years, and I saw the fruit from it. And I was leading in a discipleship group for a couple years, leading, leading groups of people through this wake up Jesus people movement. And I just saw so much fruit. I'm like, I need to write a book on this. And because I had previously written one, I it wasn't as daunting of a task to make it happen. So I spent all of 2024, well, the first six months every morning, right, waking up 30 minutes even earlier to write it. So there was no distractions. So did that for six or seven months, then went into some of the editing phases.

SPEAKER_00 49:59

Okay. What was the most challenging part about getting these words out?

SPEAKER_03 50:04

Patience and surrendering to God that it's not all about me and about how well this book does. It's more about the mission and the message behind it and how, yeah, I want it done. So I wanted it done, but I so I've been going through the Bible since 2019 each year. It's been awesome. And I thought I need from my perspective, as I've written the book now, it's middle of 2024. I need to actually continue reading through the Bible again this year with this perspective of the book. So it helped me add in some more verses and had me put in

Leading Teams With Rhythm And Rest

SPEAKER_03 50:36

some right things there. And I was also fasting over part of it. And sure enough, because um I was patient and all right, God, what else do I need here? I had added fasting to the book and the 44 challenge. So during fasting, I'm like, oh duh. Biblical principal, so huge. Your wife and I do it all the time with our church. Yes. So I added the chapter of fasting in there, and then um I added the 44 challenge because at the end of these discipleship groups, I was sending these guys through this challenge. Like, cool, you went through this eight-week discipleship group of how to do all this. Here's the 40-day uh faith fast, I called it. It was so lame, but the 40-day faith fast is kind of similar to what is now, but now it's been upgraded. And then um I'm like, I was like, I don't have a chapter of that. I'm just sending them off. I want to send them off with this challenge once they finish this book. So yeah, I'd say being patient because when I was, I added, I was able to add some great verses that were very relevant, and I was able to do some final tweaks and add a couple of bonus chapters that wouldn't have been in there if I tried to rush to really get it out.

SPEAKER_00 51:40

So good. Well, way to go and getting that out. It's amazing. Um, and really for geared towards men. So um, guys, you're listening in, go get the book. Um, remind us again the name, the name of the book, just because they probably heard it earlier, but maybe they weren't listening at that very moment. Name of the book, where they can get it, and your website.

SPEAKER_03 52:03

So wakeupjesuspeople.com. So wakeupjesuspeople.com, and it's where the journal is. We have some 40forge swag. There's the there's the challenge on there and also the the links to Amazon where you can go and get the book anyway. But it is, it is, uh it does have since I'm a guy, it does have a little more of a a guy tone, but it's really for anyone. And really, funny enough, out of the almost hundred people that have gone through the 40 Forge, only two, the only two that have finished have been female. So it's been great. Yeah, it's been great to see that. So it's it's really for um uh for either or, but uh for sure with the warrior on the front of the book and that, and in in my my perspective, it has more of a a male, male perspective. But yeah, that's where where you go to check it out.

SPEAKER_00 52:47

So much goodness. Well, thank you so much for coming on today. Um, I would love for you to share. I I shared in the beginning, I do this for the one. If you could just think of that one who's listening in today, is there anything else that you'd want to speak over that person? And then would you pray us out today?

SPEAKER_03 53:05

Yeah, for sure. But my final word to listener would be if you're if you're listening here, if you're if you're still listening, you're obviously looking for more peace, more hope, and more joy. So I would say take an inventory of what your idol is. And is it really Christ, or is it something else that that takes the place of it? And are you fully surrendered to him? Because when you are, it may not look normal to your friends and society, you may have questions, but man, every the blessings come. And if you and a lot of the blessings being peace and joy and just this this way of living that is just, I'm I have can't say no fear, but it's so it's so much better and it's closer to the way God wants us to live these hundred years while we're here. So are you fully surrendered to him? And if not, the question is how's it going? Take a real inventory. And the closer you can get to surrendering more and more to him, man, um, just the more abundant you know, life is gonna be. And I think the more you're gonna be looking down from heaven, going, I did I did great. You know, I did great. And then um, yeah, so those are some final words. But yeah, I'll pray us out here and um wrap us up. So, dear Lord, thank you so much for this time here. Thank you for the listener who is here and whatever they're going through, Lord. Please give them hope, give them joy, give them belief that they can be better and that things will get better. And that if they're not reading the Bible every day, if they're not praying every day, if they're not involved in local church, that they get plugged in and they listen to you, Lord. And the more they're plugged in and tapped into you through uh through your word and and prayer, the more, the more they they can tap into that and the more they can hear from you and the more goodness you can share. And so thank you for just everything you brought us through so far. Thank you for the ups and downs in life that have molded us to be more like you and and less like us and continue to give us courage on this journey, continue to help us live this life so you can say, Well done, and just thank you for great uh people and podcasts and hosts who can share wisdom and share testimonies and be here to be a light uh for those around us. In your body's name we pray. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 55:25

Amen. Well, thank you, Jason. Just as a reminder, I will have um Jason's uh contact information in the show notes. But if you want to just um tell the listeners again how they can get a hold of you if they'd like to reach out.

SPEAKER_03 55:37

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and social media, it's just my name, uh Jason Heinrich. And then also if you just you just search Wake Up Jesus People, uh you'll see my info come up there. But uh yeah, the website,

Faith At Work: Building A Jesus Community

SPEAKER_03 55:49

wakeupjesuspeople.com, is more of the hub where it links to all the all the other stuff.

SPEAKER_00 55:54

I love it. Awesome. Well, I'm gonna close with our um hope unlocked anchoring verse. It's may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace and believing so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope. And that's Romans 15, 13. So thank you, Jason, for being a brave voice who's setting so many free. Have a blessed day. I'll be back with another episode next week.