She Looked Successful…So Why Did Her Soul Feel Trapped? with Anna McLaughlin

What if your successful career still feels like a cage? Kristin sits down with Anna McLaughlin, recovering attorney, faith-based coach, and host of the Overwhelmed to Overcomer podcast, to unpack burnout, people-pleasing, career transition, and finding peace in God’s timing. Together they explore courage, Sabbath rest, purpose in the waiting, and how to leave well when God calls you into something new. If you’re exhausted from striving or questioning your next step, this conversation will encourage you to slow down, reconnect with God, and move forward with clarity and faith.

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Anna's podcast:

Overwhelmed to Overcomer 

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Welcome to the Hope Unlock Podcast. I'm your host, Kristen Kurtz, and I'm also the founder of New Wings Coaching. I help and empower wild-hearted and adventurous women of faith feeling caged and stuck, unlock their true purpose and potential, break free from limitations, and thrive with confidence, courage, and hope. If you're curious to learn more about coaching with me, head to newwinkscoaching.net and be sure to explore the show notes for ways to connect with me further. Get ready to dive in as we uncover empowering keys and insights in this episode. So tune in and let's unlock hope together. Welcome to the Hope Unlocked podcast. I'm Kristen Kurtz, your host. I pray this episode is like a holy IV of hope for your soul. Please help me welcome Anna McLaughlin to the show today. I'm so excited to have her here. We are a recent connection, and I really believe that we are like divinely aligned because I'm just like, wow, I see you, you see me. It's so fun. So I cannot wait for her to share more about herself. So before we get into um your story, would you just share um maybe a little bit about yourself before we get started?

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Absolutely. Oh, Kristen, I'm so glad to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Yeah, you're welcome.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

Yeah. So Anna McLaughlin, I am a homeschooling mama for, married for almost 16 years. And um I know. And I like to say I'm a recovering attorney. I was a uh I was a lawyer through and through, practiced for five years, and have been on a journey over the past, gosh, 12 years um, learning how to be instead of do. And so I I do my being at home with my kiddos, homeschooling them. I do it mostly in my quiet time with the Lord every morning while it's still dark. And I have a coaching practice as well and a podcast called Overwhelm to Overcomer. So those are the spaces in which I find myself these days.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

So beautiful. So for those of you who know me well, you know that I'm all about like it's about the be more than the do. So I love there's so much alignment here. I know. Tell us you so you were an attorney. Um, I would love to hear, you know, back in school, I remember it was like, hey, there's all these options for you to go to school for, you know, lawyer, doctor, teacher. Those were kind of like the main things that you saw. What what led you to become an attorney? Like, was this is this something in your blood? Is it like people in your family? Like, what was it for you?

Called From Seminary Toward Law

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Yeah, so a a lot of people became lawyers because their fathers and their grandfathers and so on were lawyers. Um, it wasn't that way for me so much. It was um there was there was a faith piece, but then there was also, and this was a this was a point of a little bit of crisis for me when I decided to leave law, as I had felt called into it by the Lord. And um, funnily enough, my brother was a doctor. So my dad used to joke, he had he had three children very spread out in age. So he was like, I've got a doctor, I've got a lawyer. If I can get my youngest to be a minister, I've got all the bases covered.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Oh wow, I love it.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Really sweet. Um, but for me, I had a plan to go to seminary. And honestly, it was a plan to get what they call your MRS degree of just I'm gonna meet a Christian man and get married. And that was the plan. And I had a mentor in my life who was like, You're right, Anna, and you are um, you know, you're really you're focusing on kind of just because I had a lot of wounds from um growing up with some my my father was uh paralyzed when I was a when I was a in middle school. And and so there was a lot of kind of trauma, struggle. I was a bit chaotic. Although I was a believer from the time of my middle school years, um, I wasn't very grounded. And I thought getting married would solve the problems. And um, you know, the Lord was like, we gotta get that cleaned up.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

So I love like I just want to like make sure that we capture this too, that you had somebody like stop on your journey and be like, Anna, you are more than this. Yeah. Like what did that do for you? Like having somebody say that. Did you ever think that that was possible? Like at that moment? Or did you were you like, wait, wait a moment. Like what did that look like for you when somebody said that?

SPEAKER_01 4:39

It you know, I feel like it's a it's a position, it's a place that oddly enough, 30 years later, I'm still I'm still working on. And I think this is common for um for us as believers, is we have we uh we have to reckon with our fallen nature and our sin. And we come before the holiness of the father and we feel our limitedness, you know, we we started as dust. And then there's this other piece that's like, and yet, you know, and yet we are grafted in, we are we are, you know, in his family as daughters and sons of the, you know, the the Lord of everything. And um, and you know, there's a vulnerability to owning the excellence that he has placed in us. Um and so when she said that it was terrifying because um I I was I knew that I was bright, but I downplayed it out of a sense of insecurity. And so to kind of call my shot and say, Oh, I'm gonna be a lawyer, you know, um it took it took a lot of um it took a lot of courage for me because I didn't feel comfortable stepping out and saying, you know, yeah, I I can do this. And um, and so yeah, it was it was a call to more that um I feel like is just one of the things that we have to keep facing in the life in life before the father is like, okay, and then there's another level of stretching, there's another level of trusting, and there's that moment where we step out where it feels like I'm gonna fall off this cliff, right? Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

Like Indiana Jones, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Yes, yes, that's the exact one. And there's an Indiana Jones moment where there's like the bridge, and then there's a beautiful picture too in um, I think it's the silver chair in the Chronicles of Narnia, where Jill Pole is like newly in the world of Narnia and she's gotta travel to this world, and she um she gets up to the edge of the cliff and Aslan, who is the god figure, literally breathes her down the mountain. So it looks like she's gonna fall. And instead, she just rides on his breath. It carries her all the way. And that's what you know, I think that's how our life is meant to be lived. But there's that moment where we're like, is he gonna catch me this time?

SPEAKER_00 7:04

Absolutely. Like I often think of like a backpack that you you think there's a parachute in it. Yes. You jump out of the plane, but you're you're not really sure if it's gonna come out. But it does, it always does. So tell us like a little bit of so you went to college, um, obviously, to become an attorney. And what was that journey like in you know, stepping into that realm of um you know, your your calling at that time of your life, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:33

Yeah, yeah. So it was, you know, it was funny because I when I went to college, I was planning on going to seminary, and then it was kind of right right on time. Like I think it was my junior year, right before I was gonna have to be taking the entrance exam and all of that, um, because you have to take a standardized test. And um, and then it's like this hard left turn of I'm gonna, I'm gonna be a lawyer. And at the time, I didn't even I hated speaking in front of people. I didn't like you know, antagonism, yes. And um, and so I didn't want to do courtroom, but I literally at the time, which just shows how much I knew about what I was about to do, I didn't even know that there were what are called transactional lawyers, where you get to work with people kind of behind the scenes and you never have to go to court. And so it was this funny process of unfolding where I'm like, oh, I could do that and I think I'd be good at that, and that would be so fun. And so it was a really sweet adventure before the Lord. Um and just really the first time in my life, because I'm a I'm a baby sister by nine years, and so I was always little Anna. Um little Anna. Everybody, everybody called you little Anna. I well, what's funny is I don't know that they even did, but in my in my own mind, that's how I that's who I was. You know, I was just the the little baby, and my my big brother just carved every path so beautifully, you know, went on to law school, married his law school or not law, medical school, sorry, wrong story. Uh went went on to medical school, married his medical school sweetheart, had the two kids, it just all looked so perfect. And then I I was this kind of messy, dramatic, emotional young woman. And, you know, I'm gonna be a lawyer. And so it was sweet. It was sweet to walk into that and sweet to own um own my competency or to trust the Lord that I had competency when that wasn't something that I, you know, I'm more of a um, I'm a little bit more kind of uh emotional and I love uh at the time I was dramatic, but it's it's been honed into more of just a winsomeness. And so um, you know, people were like, I wouldn't picture you as a lawyer, and in a lot of ways it wasn't the perfect fit, but I think that was a part of me that the Lord really wanted me to hone and refine.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

So beautiful. So how like how how did you operate in that space then? Did you do a lot of more like behind the scenes? You said like a transactional lawyer? Yes. More of what you did?

Big Firm Pressure And Inner Dissonance

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Yes. So the type of work I did was it's called mergers and acquisitions, where basically anytime a business was buying or selling all or a piece of itself, that was that was the work that I did. And um, and I was part of a large law firm. So just very, you know, you you spend a lot of years getting trained. And so um I spent five years in that space. And I think um, you know, I I we were talking before we hit record about just uh being kind of on the being this bridge builder and how we can be connectors, and and um so for me, I always felt like I was straddling two spaces of you know, there's the deal to get done and the work to be done, and it's all very strategic and that that kind of um nuts and bolts, black and white side of the brain. And like in a box, kind of exactly, exactly. And um, and yet there's this other piece of my spirit that was um really floundering, which is the part of me that sees that the CEO that we're working with, his mother just died. And gosh, I want to get her, I want to get him flowers. And I don't want to schedule a conference call with him this week because he needs space. And and that part of me, I I kind of snuck it in. I found ways to operate in that way, but there was um there was so much doing, as we were talking about earlier, that the being was was really suffering. So that that was a struggle and ultimately one that at the time I couldn't really reconcile. So that led to the decision when our second child was born to walk away.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

Wow, wow. So how many years ago was that then?

SPEAKER_01 11:44

It is it's almost 13 years ago that we left.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

13 years, okay. What did what did that look like for you? Like, was there just kind of the still small voice, like it's time to go, or were you just so unsettled you you just felt like you needed to bust out of there?

SPEAKER_01 12:00

It was there were both all of it, all of it. It was it was actually the biggest work before the Lord was learning to stay in the um in the in the deficit, like stay in the not enough and let that be okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

Um that's a word right there.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

Right, right. And so I um within six months of starting at the practice, I was like, I don't think this is for me. Like it was just so cerebral, so you know, the environment is relatively intense. It's it was a large law firm, and so the clients were paying a lot of money. So you needed to either be always available or at least look always available. And so there was a lot of performance, you know, working on holidays and working on weekends. And then I met my husband, who was this happy C student cliff notes reading guy who was uh who was going on boat rides with his buddies on the weekends while I was at the office. And um and so really the beautiful thing was um in falling in love with him, there opened up this space of learning to enjoy life in a way that, you know, this little performance-driven girl that I was hadn't really understood how to do before the Lord. Um, and so that was really precious. And so then I'm six months in, I'm like, I got this degree, I paid for this degree, I took out some loans for this degree, and um, I don't want to be here. And then and then came this uh season that, like I said, lasted another five years of if if it's not time to leave yet, which you know, financially, logistically it wasn't yet, then um then surely I must be able to, you know, it's that whole Paul saying I've learned to be content no matter what, right? So then if I'm called to be here, then the fruits of the spirit are love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, goodness, self-control, like those are here because he's got me here and I'm here.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Yeah, it's because wherever you are, there he is.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Right, exactly. And so that was really the work is how can I stay here well? How can I serve well? How can I be um be a solid, faithful um woman of integrity in this space and also want to leave at the same time. Um, and so navigating that was because I would get, you know, I I was I did I wasn't sleeping. We had we had our daughter um three years in to me practicing law. And so I would I started working part-time and part-time as a lawyer meant I left at like 4 30 in the afternoon of 3 30.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

Like normal full-time.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Right, exactly. And I would, I would get home, I would spend a few hours with her. She would go to bed at 6 30, I'd turn on my laptop, I'd work until like 11 30, and she would wake up and I would and she would cluster feed because I'd been, you know, I'd been gone all day. So she would cluster feed until and I would kind of doze until six in the morning, and then I'd put her, I'd give her to my husband, and I'd take an hour or two nap, and then I'd go off to work.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Oh my gosh. Like, how how were you like operating? Were you just doing the thing or were you feeling it? Your was your body feeling it?

SPEAKER_01 15:39

My body was feeling it, and my emotions were feeling it too. And I think ultimately that's why the Lord had me there, is I needed to learn how to let it be okay to be in the discontent. You know, I was a I was the baby of the family. Um, we actually my my dad adopted a a daughter when I went off to college, but for all intents and purposes, I was the baby. So I was used to kind of being taken care of and you know, what does little Anna need? And for me to be, you know, my husband would say, um, does it help to know that you're helping the family? I was like, no. Try a different one. I know that one's not helpful. But for him, that would be worth it, you know? Him knowing, because he didn't, he was in a job that was real hard on his body physically. And but for him to know he was helping the family was was enough to keep him going. And I I was not born with that gene. The Lord did not give me that gene to be like, I'm so grateful that I'm of service right now. It's worth the struggle.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

Right. So what what was your what is your gene?

SPEAKER_01 16:45

So mine is all about meaning and purpose. I want to know that I'm doing something of value. And so I think one of the ways that I got through that season was just looking for the opportunities to minister to those around me. And it was sweet. I mean, there uh, you know, I had it, I had an office with a door, and people would just come in and close the door and sit down and cry and process and whether it was just because the environment in in a law firm is often if you've stayed up till two o'clock, someone else has stayed up till four, you know.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

So the cutthroat.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

Yeah, and well, and I will say our office really had a good work environment, but they're just there it's hard to come by that that sympathy when you're like, yeah, that's the job, you're gonna be up till two sometimes, you know. Um but I just endeavored to really love on, you know, the people that that worked with me and the people that um I mean, even just the secretaries, or if there was somebody, you know, looking for a a lunch on the street, I'd take them to lunch and just these different opportunities to be present and endeavor to be a blessing. Like I think of all the seasons in my life, um during that time more than any other, I was just hunting for opportunities to bring light to someone else because that was that that almost for me justified being there all day.

Staying In Discontent Without Shame

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Wow. You know, it's interesting because you know, a lot of the times people go on like a mission trip overseas. Yeah. And sometimes we're actually called on mission in your workplace. Yes. Right? Like because uh our stories, like as you keep talking, I'm like, wow, are very similar. Um and he just kept showing me when I was in corporate, like just serve fruit, serve fruit, serve fruit, holy spirit, fruits of spirit, like bring the fruit, serve the fruit. Um and I think we don't really attribute like some of these mission trips to literally being in your backyard.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

Would you say?

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Oh, absolutely. It just I think in our minds it doesn't feel like we're giving enough. But those small morsels of bread every day, they they shift the state for the people around us.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Yes, yes. Tell me, like, would you mind sharing? I I feel like maybe somebody's listening in today that is in a position that they're like, ah, ah, right? Because it that's how I felt too. It's like, ah, I need to get out of here. But I knew that he had me there for a purpose, right? And um so if somebody's listening in today, would you be open to maybe sharing um maybe a deeper testimonial of maybe one of those moments with somebody that you worked with, or you you just saw the fruit of staying being planted with a person and and their experience in you being planted there?

SPEAKER_01 19:47

Yeah. Um so there was, and this is just such a tiny little moment, but um, but it was such a gift. There was someone who um they were trying to get across town. I can't, they were um, they were down on their luck and they were trying to um travel to get back to family where they could have some support. And they didn't have the funds for um for a ticket. And so um I can't remember all of the ins and outs because gosh, it's been probably 15 years now, but we ended up we ended up walking to the bus station, but then that, but then the ticket they needed was gonna be at a different station. So then we're walking somewhere else. And and we ended up, I spent probably an hour and a half on lunch break that day just walking around and talking to this person and hearing their story. And um, you know, you just you come in from that moment and you know you've done the work for the day. And I I think that's what I would encourage anybody who's kind of feeling that sense of, oh, why am I here? You know, I I think part of what can make that season so painful is we can feel like we're underutilized or we're not being utilized in the right space. And um what yeah, it's like put me, you know, whether it's like I sh I feel like the Lord has me to write a book, or I feel like the Lord is calling me into missions, or I feel like I'm supposed to be in a different career than I am. And we can start to kind of have this story that we must be doing something wrong, or he would have put us there already. And and so I just want to say, you know, so often we hear we see someone when so much of the story's already been written, right? Like what we don't see is the 20, 30, 40, 50 years that that that moment is built on. Um not only in that person's life, but all the prayers of the generations or just the waters that they were steeped in, you know, that just that they were able to get to the point that they had gotten to because of the faithfulness, maybe. Not only of their own walk, but potentially like did parents pray for them or grandparents praying for them? Um, and if that's not your story, as it's not mine, um, I didn't have parents and grandparents praying for me that I that I know of or that was indicated. Um, maybe I'm the grandparent to someone else. You know, maybe, maybe you're the grandparent to someone else. And so, you know, one of the things that I think we need to remember is it's really like it, he knows how to move us at the time that we are to move. And so often there's this richness that comes from staying because we gain a strength, a perspective, a humility that we wouldn't have any other way. So what if it's possible? You're not doing anything wrong at all. You're right where he has you.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

So beautiful. So, as you like, as we're talking about this today, what would you say is like one of the biggest like strengths that you came out of, just even whether it's being an attorney or staying, uh, maybe there's a few things that you took away from there because everything that we walk through is is part of our journey. And I believe that we pick up keys in any scenario we're in, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:50

What would you say for you that that was so one of the most important things that I gained was a a sense of steadfastness, just understanding that um it's not all butterflies and roses, and that doesn't mean that we're outside of the Lord's will, but like that we need to be willing to stay and to and to serve where we are um all the way through until it's done. Yeah. And then um, and then the other pieces, like it felt like forever at the time, but it really changed my perspective on time because if if anyone had told me six months in when I first realized, uh-oh, this is not what I want, um, if anyone had told me it's gonna be it's gonna be five more years before this is over, I'd be like, uh-uh, get out of here, Satan, right? Like that's not no way. I'm out. This cannot be God because I can't I can't make it. And yet, you know, now that's almost 13 years in the rearview mirror. Yes. And it seemed so big at the time. So um, and really we look ahead and whatever we go through, you know, Paul talks about the light and momentary tr troubles. Like while, if I remember correctly, while he's in prison, he talks about the light and momentary troubles of this life.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Yes.

The Decision To Leave With Integrity

SPEAKER_01 25:14

So just remembering whatever, whatever we may go through, whether it's the you know, relatively everyday frustration of being in a career that doesn't quite suit, or whether it's deeper pain, deeper loss, but it's a breath compared to forever.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

Yes, that's so good. Thank you for sharing. I would love to hear just the moment, like how did you leave? Like, what did that look like for you?

SPEAKER_01 25:44

Yeah. So my husband and I had a funny moment that's caused years of laughter ever ever since. Um, so we had we had our first child, our daughter, and we started talking about another baby. And so, and my husband had this habit, which was very sweet, but didn't really uh necessarily meet the need in the way I think he hoped it would, which was if I was up working, instead of going to sleep, he would kind of doze on top of the covers with the lights on as a way of being like, I'm still with you. It is trying. He was trying, he was trying. Um, so I'm in the other room working. He is uh he's doing his dozing in solidarity. And um, and I'm getting it's so cute. He's so he was just precious. Um, and I'm getting more and more frustrated by the work still left to be done, my exhaustion, you know, the schedule, how hard it's all been. And I I kind of storm in the bedroom and I kick the side of the bed to wake him up.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

And I know you got the lights on, but you're you're actually getting up now. I know.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

Now I'm up. Now I'm up. He kind of like jolts to jolts to his uh his waking moment. And I'm like, listen, if you want another baby, we've got nine months from conception to get me out of this job because I'm not doing another maternity leave. And he was like, Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

Wow, message received middle of the night kind of.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

Middle of the night, probably 11, probably 11 o'clock or so, because I'd usually kind of, you know, just reach my breaking point at midnight. Um and so, and I should just note in all of this, and I think this is another thing that someone may need to hear. Part of my part of why I worked so late at night was because I I had kind of an ADHD type of brain. I didn't have it well managed, I didn't understand how to pin down my my efforts. And so I was wildly inefficient in my work. And and and I'll just note for anybody that needs to hear it, like you don't have, you know, because part of my wrestle was part of why this is so hard is because of my own making, because I'm making it harder because I'm not, you know, just sitting down and plowing through and getting it done. I'm procrastinating, I'm stressed about doing it, like I'm worried I'm not gonna get because you know, it's kind of like Tom Hanks said one time being a lawyer is like having to do homework all the time. It was like the one career he didn't want to do, he said in an interview. I'm like, this is right. Imagine doing homework for the rest of your life.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

Oh my goodness. No, thank you. Just personally, no, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Yes, exactly, same. Um, but it was so important for me to recognize before the Lord. Um, I come with all my gifts and also all my challenges. And that's okay, you know, that we don't have to tidy it all up before we get to move to the new season, but we do have to, you know, lean into him and trust him and endeavor to serve as best we can. Um and so I did want to like step off the track for a minute to say that for anybody.

SPEAKER_00 28:49

Thank you. I appreciate that so much.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Yeah, but um, but so my husband kick the bed, yeah, give the ultimatum. And um, and really financially nothing had really changed from before that decision, but there just came, you know, so what started as a middle of the night kind of I'm not doing this again became an earnest conversation of there's never gonna be a perfect time to go, but um, you know, I can and I can always go go back if we can't make it work. But you know, what if we could pull this thing together and I could be home? And honestly, Kristen, I was earning three quarters of our income at the time. Like this was not mathematically like a very, you know, it was it wasn't a logical decision.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

I like to say doesn't make sense on paper. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

There was yes, does not make sense on paper. Um and so we we made the decision and um and then we got pregnant with our second and I worked through the pregnancy, and then I gave my notice, and this was this was a big ask of mine um for my husband because maternity leave was a pretty sweet gig. You got 12 weeks of paid leave and it was lawyer paid leave, so it was a good chunk of change. But I knew I knew I wanted to leave well, and so I gave my notice before maternity leave and um and left two three weeks before my son was born.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

You did. Wow. Let's see, this is this is why I love you. Part of just part, just that integris heart that you carry. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:25

Yeah. I told him, I said, I just know that if if if I didn't know if I was leaving or not, that'd be one thing. You know, stay, no problem. And I totally understand that um that that conviction may not be everybody's. We all have different things that the Lord calls us to do. Um, but I was like, I can't, you know, these people have paid me well, they've helped, you know, they let me go part-time, they've uh been flexible with me, you know, worked with me, take cared for me as best they knew how. And I I would not feel right taking, you know, tens of thousands of dollars knowing that I'm never walking through the doors again.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Right. Um so you you put your notice in. Um, how did that feel like putting it in? I I just love to hear just kind of like viscerally what what was going through your head at that moment.

SPEAKER_01 31:16

So it was um it was so interesting because I think my passion is seeing people set free. And so I really thought I felt almost like in my mind, like the Pied Piper where I'm going to, because all of us, everybody struggled at different points in that job. You know, it's hard not to feel beat up, worn down, discouraged, frustrated. It's you know, it's a corporate law job and it just calls for a lot. And so I honestly thought I would give my notice and there'd be like a dozen people doing the same. I can do it too. I can leave too.

SPEAKER_00 31:55

Like we're gonna set off like a domino effect.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

Yes. It was so funny. And um, that didn't happen. And so I remember honestly, this feeling of um disappointment that I think really speaks to the heart that the Lord has given me and the work he's called me to do, which is my you know, freedom for myself and for my family is a gift, but the the place I get really excited is watching other people get set free.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

Yes, yes. Yeah. Well, tell us more about that. So, how did you like what what are you doing now? And how did you come into what you're doing now? Setting free in a different way.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

So I'm guessing Isaiah 61 is a big one for you too.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

I do love that one. Yes, yeah, that we might just walk as he walked, you know. That's that's his work is to set the captives free, to bind up the brokenhearted. Oh, just love that.

SPEAKER_03 32:50

Yeah.

Coaching Permission To Want More

SPEAKER_01 32:52

Yeah. So um I kind of fumbled and fell and rose again in different, um, different kinds of part-time jobs and small businesses. Um, and actually, well, and there was one piece of the story that I forgot about until you asked that question, which is even the um, my husband will always say when I was still lawyering, he's like, I don't understand what you want to do. Like, do you want to be because I was looking at going back to my alma mater to be a career services uh coach. And then I was looking at part-time or not part-time, like smaller firms and in-house jobs. He's like, What do you want to do? And I didn't ever know how to answer him. And then I started working with a coach while my firstborn, um, when I was on maternity leave with my firstborn, and um, that coach asked me, asked me this kind of ordinary question. She said, um, she said, What's your ideal day? I want you to journal what your ideal day is. And that exercise made me realize what I really wanted was to be home and have this sense of quiet and rhythm and being present with the people I loved. That and that question changed everything for me. Um, and so from the beginning, and what I realized was it wasn't that I didn't know what I wanted to do, it was that I hadn't given myself permission to want it because I didn't think it was possible.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

Right. We have tornadoes siren going off right now, and my dogs are howling. So hopefully you can't hear it.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

But I literally can't.

SPEAKER_00 34:26

Okay, amazing. Zoom is absolutely amazing. Um, so you can just keep sharing. I'm gonna mute myself. Really, people. This is real life.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

We got it. We got this. Okay, so um, so really it was that moment of permission to say, what do I really, really want? You know, not what do I think I can have, but what do I really, really want is um to be home with my children. And so coaching changed my life. So in the back of my mind always was this desire to coach. And um, and I did some other things in the interim, but over the past few years, I've started building a coaching practice. And I love helping people really come to recognize their unique gifts before the father and to do so from a place first and foremost where they're really abiding with the vine, that kind of deep rooting in. Um and you know, one of the things I had just an amazing word study with the Lord recently where he had me look at the word courage, because that's one of my core values is courage. Um, and you know, I think everybody, I don't know if everybody, but you know, it's it's common to want to be brave in our lives, to want to feel like, yeah, I've swung for the fences, I've done the big things. And um, and I was like, what is courage really, though, Lord? Is it these kind of grand moves? You know, it's kind of like you know it by its results, but there's got to be places, it starts somewhere. Um and the fascinating thing is the word for courage in the Hebrew actually means to fasten. There's two different words. And so when it says in Joshua 1.9, be strong and courageous, that's actually two different words for courage. And uh the first word that is translated as strong means to grab hold of or fasten to. And then the second word is this change of mind and this inner strength that comes from the fastening. And so what the Lord showed me is um the root of all courage is our attachment to the vine. Isn't that cool? Wow.

SPEAKER_00 36:38

You've got me thinking now. So, like, you know, I love Joshua 1 9 is like one of my anchoring verses for the journey that I've been on. I'm gonna have to go a little deeper on this. I I encourage you listeners to do the same. Fasten. It's interesting. I say that a lot. Like, are you ready? Like, fasten your seatbelt. Yeah. Wow, interesting. Isn't that amazing? That is amazing. So, what like in your journey? My dogs are howling at the tornado.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

Can you hear it? No, I can't.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

That is so funny. Wild. Um, it's totally distracting me, but I'm gonna keep my brain like focused here. Um, so this word courage, you obviously took a very courageous step to leave the position you were in. And then he led you into coaching. Um, and it's been has it been a few years now that you've officially been coaching?

SPEAKER_01 37:33

Yes. Yeah, let's see, 2023 to early 2024.

SPEAKER_00 37:38

Okay, amazing. Well, I have to capture because if you guys remember, um Anna was met with a mentor who said something to her that shifted the trajectory of her life. And then there was a coach that came in and helped shift the trajectory of her life. Um, both her and I are coaches. We are on the other side of seeing what can happen. And I want you guys to really capture and and even think of maybe somebody in your life, whether it was um, you know, whether it was a sibling or a parent or a teacher or you know, somebody in her life that helped shift the trajectory of your life. There's a movie that I just love. It's called A Million Miles Away. Have you seen it?

SPEAKER_01 38:20

No. Writing it down now.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Oh my goodness. Um you guys go watch it. It's it's so good. It's about this this child who had a huge dream that was wild and beyond what anybody would be like, yeah, okay. But there was a teacher that was like, oh yeah, I totally see that you could do that. And I'm not gonna give the story away, but um, there's people that are just ready to come alongside you. And so Anna, tell us more about, and now there's an eagle. Um, tell us more about like, you know, how you were led in essence. Like, did you go through a specific school for coaching? Um, like what did this journey look like for you to really step in and and then step out into it? Um how did that look for you?

SPEAKER_01 39:08

Yeah, so for me, I um so I I ran a uh direct sales organization, like I had a large team through a direct sales organization for years, for about eight years. And so I did a lot of coaching through that. Um I had a team of, you know, several well, you know, it's always bigger than it than bigger on paper than it is as far as who shows up for the call, but I would t but I would um mentor, support, and coach um my team members over the years. And then I got a coaching certification that was that was kind of indirectly related to the direct sales organization so that I could continue to coach and mentor my team. And then there came this point where I'm like, do I get do I get the official piece of paper from, you know, one of the big names? And then it's kind of like, okay, it's more than just this, you know, this program that's through direct sales, it's something that feels more official. And um, and my husband was willing for me to do that, but I came to a point where I was like, you know, I've got a law degree, I've got 10 years of coaching experience, I've got training, I've got a certification from this, you know, smaller organization. And so it was it was a hard thing for me, who had always kind of paid for the piece of paper. Sure. Yeah. To say, um, and I say I have like a um, I kind of have a braid, like my three chords of experience are um the kind of legal, legal side is the strategy, and then the coaching experience is more of the heart and the attunement. And then I've got this Holy Spirit kind of um intuition that uh-huh that comes together. And so um, so that's those are the three things that I landed on. And I do have um, I do coaching for for all different things because I feel like ultimately it's all about just helping the client identify that Holy Spirit knowing that's already within them, you know, in the in the same way that I needed all those years ago. What do I really want? I knew, you know, she didn't have to tell me I knew it. And so it's a drawing out um very much as opposed to, and I homeschool the same way, right? Let me draw out my child's unique excellence instead of stuffing things in their brains.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

I love that.

Courage Means Fastening To The Vine

SPEAKER_01 41:29

And it's a different system, isn't it? It is, it's a totally different modality and it's very uh it's very grounding because there's so much trust in it to just go, I I get to show up to the call for fully confident that I don't need to do anything but listen and attune to the person on the other end.

SPEAKER_00 41:46

Yes, absolutely. And I just want to say like way to follow Holy Spirit in that and not feeling like you have to or should, right? Should get a certificate or or whatever. Yep. Um, I like to say, you know, the the best title and best letters behind my name are G-O-D.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

Yes. Yeah, exactly. Like he he just he'll lead and he can like say that I'm qualified for the spaces that he has me. So um yeah. So the funny piece for me now is in this season, I you know, although I coach everybody, I have this unique gifting in the corporate world because I've done so much there. And so um he's given me a lot of appointments, often just you know, random assignments where I'll have lunch with someone who thinks they're recruiting me for something and we end up talking about their business. And I'm like, yeah, I I see, I see the pain points, I see the holes in the funnel, I see all of those things. And so I do a lot in that space. And that's really a passion of mine because I think, you know, when we own a small business, so often there are these inner aches where it's like, it's not where I wanted it to be. It doesn't look like what I hoped it would look like, it's not bringing in the revenue that I hoped it would. And yet we go to the um the meet and greets and the networking events and we we put on this pulled together face of you know, presenting our product to the world with full confidence. And inside we're hurting because it's not quite there yet. We don't know who to ask. And so that's the place I really love to minister.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

Give us, would you mind sharing maybe a testimonial of somebody you worked with? Um, since you're probably just like me, we're very confidential. We're not giving away names or anything, but would you mind sharing like one of your favorite um testimonials, like maybe on a broad level, or unless you want to share deeply whatever you are led to share? Kind of a very, you know, amazing work that you I know that you're amazing, I can already tell as a coach. Um, but would you mind sharing something if you're able to?

SPEAKER_01 43:56

Yeah, so I'm just trying to think of what because you know it's like I I get to do it and then it just floats away and it goes. And right now a lot of who I'm coaching is so I actually I paused my business for a season and laid it down to go before the father and because I went through a bit of a rough patch last year. And so um coaching's looking a little bit more like uh organic right now. And I'm just starting to get clients again and just starting to kind of get the wheels moving. So now I'm like, okay, Lord, let me dust off this part of my brain and and own a wonderful story that um that I have. But um, I think one of the ones that's been really precious for me was um just Getting to stand beside somebody who uh this was actually this is my favorite one. I got it. This was a this was several, this was several years ago before I was even officially coaching. And I had a, she tells the story all the time, so I can I can tell it in a little bit more detail, but um, I had someone that I'd connected with through my direct sales business, and she was she was a customer. And um, we got on the phone, I think, for her to place an order. I don't even remember. It ended up being an hour-long conversation where she was just kind of cranky and frustrated with um so she had been very high up in a direct sales organization and had taken her retirement. So she had kind of wound down that chapter of her life. And some she was just kind of like, you know, just just agitated. And I forget why she even opened up to me, but I just the Lord had me start to mirror back to her. And this is one of my favorite things to do because I feel like we so often miss what the Lord has given us, you know, those are unique giftings, and he's given me an ability to spot him a mile away. Like I can see, I can see what you're good at. I can see it, you know? And I love getting to call it forth. So I just started doing that with her and she started crying and because she had she had been mentoring me in my direct sales business, even just as a customer. And I started mirroring back all that I saw in her. And um she was like, you know what? There's this thing I've been wanting to do that I I never I've yet to do. And she realized basically she was feeling um spiritually kind of sluggish. I'm not pouring out enough in this season. I need to find a way to pour out. And so she gets off that one call, one little phone call, and she goes and enrolls in a coaching program herself, actually.

SPEAKER_03 46:33

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 46:34

And she is now like one of the top trainers for this organization, just like you know, rocking it, changing lives, serving so many people, just you know, in the in the golden years of her life. And she still credits that conversation as the turning point before the Lord.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

Isn't it amazing? I mean, literally, like this is like I mean, I I get to do this too. Like it's such a gift.

SPEAKER_01 47:00

It really is. It really is. I mean, what an honor to see someone's yeah, it's just I still talk about my coach Mary Beth, that I haven't worked with in 14 years. But her impact.

SPEAKER_00 47:12

Do you think about her a lot?

SPEAKER_01 47:13

I do, and actually I've reached out to her at a couple different points, but yeah, it's probably been six or seven years. I need to do it again just to tell her that changed my life today.

SPEAKER_00 47:24

Coaching question.

SPEAKER_01 47:25

Right, right. What other time is there today? Right.

SPEAKER_00 47:28

Oh my gosh. I I just love this. So, like, what is something stretchy that he's calling you into this year that you're, you know, anticipating, or maybe something that you're called to to shift in this season?

SPEAKER_01 47:41

Yeah. So really for me, um, so the the uh tough season last year was um what part of what made it so hard is I stepped into a space that felt like it was it was an opportunity to serve in every area where I was gifted. I was like, oh, it calls together all these different places and it calls together all these different gifts I've had, and they all come together in this one opportunity to serve and to grow. And um, and it ended up being not only not what I'd hoped for, but really just a heartbreaking situation. Um and thank you. And so from that, there came this season of hibernation of just I don't know if I can get back out there again. Um, you know, do I trust myself? Do I trust the Lord? Do I um do I have uh did I make it all up? Um and I know I'm not alone in that. So for anyone who's in that season now, um, I see you and it, you know, it's not forever. He knows how to bring you to the other side and he's faithful to do it. Yes. And so so the stretch is is coming back, you know, it's seeing clients again, it's showing up and it's trusting that there's work to be done and that I'm the one to do it because I'm still here, right?

SPEAKER_00 49:10

Say that last part again.

SPEAKER_01 49:12

Yeah, I'm the one to do it because I'm still here.

Rest First And Sabbath As Lack

SPEAKER_00 49:15

Yeah. Yeah. I I want you guys to capture that. Like if you are here today and you're breathing, like God has a plan for you. Yes. And some days it looks like just like laying around and resting. Let's just be real.

SPEAKER_01 49:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

I don't know about you, but like in your walk, um, especially you know, working in the environment you worked in, like, did you have to kind of go through a season of learning how to rest? And do you integrate that like into your coaching with people you work with, especially now that you kind of find yourself being connected with people in that corporate space that tends to be, because I know. Yes. Uh very driven, striving, hustling, grinding environments. Like what did that look like? I just want to capture that part.

SPEAKER_01 50:05

Yeah. Yeah. So it really one of my favorite images of this in the scriptures is um, you know, for for those of us who kind of know our Bible, the Sabbath was always Friday night to Saturday night. And it was because in creation, God created in six days, and then in the seventh day, he rested. Um and yet we have our Sabbath as Christians on Sunday. And um and it what seems to be the case, and you know, different scholars, I'm sure you could find different scholars that differ on this, but there seems to be a very compelling indication that the reason for that shift took place because Christ on the cross said it is finished, and that there was an understanding in the early church that we now get to rest first, and then our work is an is an outpouring of that rest because he's done it. And so that's an invitation I extend to my clients quite regularly, whether they're in the corporate world, they're stay-at-home moms, whatever it is, is that um really we get to rest first and we we have like if we wait until it's all finished before we rest, that's never happening. And so we have to, we have to make a decision. And um there's this beautiful book that I'm trying to single-handedly bring back out into print from being out of print called the choosing rest by Sally Breedlove. Um and it is it's I think the line is um choosing choosing a Sunday life in a Monday world or something like that. But but she basically talks about all the different ways that um that we might find unrest in our souls, whether it's from uh busyness and overwork, whether it's from like a dark night of the soul, that general malaise that Ecclesiastes speaks to, relational grief, all of these different places. And um, one of the things that she talks about is that the word Sabbath means um the Hebrew word root word means to suffer lack. And that there, among other things, it does mean rest and all of that, but that one of the root words is to suffer lack, and that we must um the only way we can truly enter rest is when we allow things to be unfinished.

SPEAKER_00 52:31

That's a book right there. Right. Anna? You're ready to write.

SPEAKER_01 52:40

I know it took me a minute. I was like, I'm hold on. Yeah, yeah, maybe one day. Maybe one day.

SPEAKER_00 52:48

Someday. Well, uh, you have a podcast as well. So how did you get into podcasting and like how long has your podcast been around? And and tell us the name again of your podcast.

Building A Podcast From Real Life

SPEAKER_01 52:58

Yeah, so my podcast is Overwhelmed to Overcomer. And I launched it, uh, let's see, it's been around for just over two years now. Um and I started it when I opened my coaching practice. So um initially, I again a conversation. I was um I was initially not really sure who I was talking to or what this would look like. And so um one of my like adages to myself and to others is to move your sweet feet. You know, sometimes we just need to move our sweet feet and um we may not know where it's leading us. And so the first nine months of the podcast um was for Christian homeschooling entrepreneurs because that's what I was. That's what you're doing, yeah. Yeah. And as I spoke, I kind of so I started with what I knew was kind of a caricature of what I was trying to capture. Um, but really the podcast design is you know, the concept behind overwhelm to overcomer at its heart is to help us um flip the call of John 15 to its right side. And what I mean by that is um that's the the call of Christ to um to abide and to bear much fruit. And what I've found in years of coaching and friendship and mentorship and all of it is that um women of faith who are devoted to the Lord, we so often start to try and bear beyond or outside of our abiding, because we're like, I love you, Lord, I want to do things for you. And so we'll start yesing where we should be knowing, or we'll start kind of running ahead and getting exhausted, and then we get discouraged and disappointed, or then we feel like we've taken a wrong turn. And um, so really overwhelmed to overcomer is a call to abide first and foremost and to trust that through that abiding, the bearing is inevitable. Like we're doing the work, it's it's okay. Um, and then we just explore all the ways that that can be, you know, all the all the places where we find that challenging. So I love having guests on and you're coming on, which is exciting. Um yeah. And so, you know, we look at all kinds of topics like grief or sleep or um authenticity or uh even practical things like finances, just all the places where maybe we're not sure how to be faithful there. And so it's an invitation to stewardship, but from a stewardship that's a stewardship that's really rooted in the father.

SPEAKER_00 55:34

Yes. Well, I just love everything he has you doing and being. I just love who you be and what you do. Um, it's beautiful. So, how can people get in touch with you?

SPEAKER_01 55:46

Yeah, absolutely. So I will give you the link, Kristen, to put in the show notes. Um do you do you do show notes?

SPEAKER_00 55:52

I do. I just love for people to hear it first because sometimes they're like, you know what? I just want to hear it and then I'll go capture it later. I love it. I'm gonna do both, yes.

SPEAKER_01 56:01

Okay, perfect. So um I have my podcast, of course, that's a great place to catch me. And then I love extending an invitation to just a 15 to 20 minute curiosity call if you want to see what coaching would look like as well. And my commitment always is that call is going to be prayed over. And my goal is to leave you with that kind of deep breath sense of rest when we get off the line, that place of like, yes.

SPEAKER_00 56:26

Beautiful. Oh my gosh. So, what do you have a website we can share as well?

SPEAKER_01 56:31

I do not have a website, actually. That's been one of the really interesting things of this season is I just shut down all the overhead and I was like, I'm not fancy, I'm not big, and because of that, I'm very affordable.

SPEAKER_00 56:43

So I love you. I you know, when I I I've been coaching for almost nine years, and I actually shut mine down for probably six of the nine years, and I just got mine back up last year.

SPEAKER_01 56:55

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 56:56

So keep it simple, girl.

SPEAKER_01 56:57

I know. I built the whole thing and then I was like, I didn't even know that this is necessary and it's 120 bucks a month, and I'm just gonna lay it down. So yeah, it's my first and foremost job, especially after the the season of rest that I'm coming out of, is seeing my children through their homeschool journey. My youngest is eight, so we've got another 10 years to go. And so um, I'm gonna I love I have this phrase the Lord gave me, wait for the lead rope to get taught, you know. Wait, wait for the wait for the Lord to feel like you're being wait till I feel pulled into the next step. And so um, so it's very quiet and very simple. I have a little Callendly site and um and you know, find me there, find me on Instagram or Facebook, and you know, let's connect. I'll answer all the questions.

Abide And Bear Fruit Closing Prayer

SPEAKER_00 57:45

Yes. Well, thank you so much for coming on today. I just love you. Uh you too. As as we close, I just you know, I've I've shared, I I do this for the one. So if you could just get in mind somebody who's listening in today, um, any other words of encouragement that you'd want to speak over this one? And then would you pray us out today?

SPEAKER_01 58:04

Absolutely. Ah, sweet friend. I actually have a passage from one of my favorite books, which is called The True Vine. And I just want to speak this over you who are listening who might be feeling like, Lord, are you pleased with me? Like, am I doing enough for you? Am I being enough for you? I wanna, I wanna, I wanna be faithful in my life, and it feels so small sometimes. And so the author Andrew Murray lived 150 years ago, and he has this to say to you, and the whole book is about John 15, abiding and bearing. As high and holy is our calling, so mighty and loving is the God who will work it all. As surely as the husbandman, that's the the gardener, made the vine, which is Christ, what it was to be, will he make each branch, which is you, what it is to be? Our Father is our husbandman, the surety for our growth and fruit. So, friend, your work is simply to lean into the Lord. Let him love you, let him lead you and guide you, and you can be assured of your growth and fruit.

SPEAKER_03 59:21

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 59:23

Wow, Anna. I want you to come back again.

SPEAKER_01 59:27

Please.

SPEAKER_00 59:28

Come back, please. Um, well, I am gonna close with Hope Unlocked Anchoring Verse. It's may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope. And that's Romans 15, 13. So thank you so much for coming on today, and thank you for being such a brave voice who's setting so many free. I will be back with another episode next week. Thanks, listeners, and thank you, Anna.