Katherine: Fertility Struggles, Miscarriage and the Journey to Parenthood, Navigating Postpartum Anxiety

Part 1 of 2. Join us as we share an intimate exploration of the intricate journey to motherhood with our esteemed guest, Katherine Hunter. A mother, a lawyer, and an author, Katherine candidly shares her personal battles with infertility and her transition into motherhood. Get ready for an emotional rollercoaster, from the anticipation of an uneventful pregnancy to the joys and trials that follow the birth of a child.

Katherine's book, "Paths to Motherhood," provides a thought-provoking backdrop to our discussion. We highlight the myriad ways women become mothers, from IVF and adoption to natural conception, and we hold space for those who have experienced miscarriages or stillbirths. We shine a light on the unexpected twists and turns of pregnancy, from IHOP trips before hospital check-ins to the decision-making process of using pitocin during childbirth.

The conversation doesn't stop at birth. We journey into the rarely discussed postpartum period, from the initial euphoria of bringing a life into the world to the challenges that accompany a newborn's admission into the NICU. With honesty and raw emotion, we delve into the realities of postpartum anxiety and the pressures of being a new parent in turbulent times. Let our shared experiences on the Golden Hour Birth Podcast bring a sense of community and connection. Laugh, cry, and find solace in the shared, universal truths of motherhood. Part 2 coming next week.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Have you ever wondered about the struggles and internal battles that people face on their pathways to becoming a mother, especially when the journey involves medical interventions such as IVF? We have with us Catherine Hunter, a mother and lawyer, who is going to share her personal journey through the highs and lows of motherhood, starting from her struggles with infertility, receiving the unexpected news of being pregnant, and the emotions that followed. Let's delve into Catherine's remarkable journey the Golden Hour Birth Podcast, a podcast about real birth stories and creating connections through our shared experiences.

Speaker 2: 0:36

Childbirth isn't just about the child. It's about the person who gave birth, their lives, their wisdom and their empowerment.

Speaker 1: 0:43

We're Liz and Natalie, the Golden Hour Birth Podcast, and we're here to laugh with you, cry with you and hold space for you. Welcome to the Golden Hour Birth Podcast.

Speaker 2: 0:56

I am your co-host Liz and I'm Natalie, and tonight we have Catherine Hunter on. She is a local mom from St Louis, she is a practicing lawyer and she has also written a book called Back to Motherhood, which I read in 2021. So I love it and admire it and it's so much for coming on tonight.

Speaker 3: 1:19

Thank you so much for having me and for your kind words.

Speaker 2: 1:22

Thanks a lot. I also just want to give a shout out to October month. I'm going to see a new Pintloss Awareness Month, so if anyone needs to check in with themselves and where they are, feel free to maybe look at a different episode. But we just send all of our love to any mothers who have gone through miscarriages or are still birthed, or so you want to go ahead and introduce yourself and a little bit about your family.

Speaker 3: 1:54

Yeah, so I live in St Louis. Like you said, I've been here since 2015. I am from Kansas City originally, so go chiefs. So I went to Mizzou University of Missouri, columbia, for undergrad and met my now husband. Then it was our sophomore year and he actually went to Washington University here in St Louis. So we met through mutual friends and we dated like long distance Just two hours for those who don't know, between Columbia and St Louis and then we both moved to Chicago in 2006.

Speaker 3: 2:31

I'm really People are going to figure out my age very quickly and I went to law school in Chicago, and we were there until, yeah, 2015. We have three kids ages eight she just turned eight this week, she's just six, he just turned six last week and then three. We have a newly three year old too, and a dog. So, yeah, we love traveling together, hanging out together for the most part, most of the time hiking, and you're right, I am a lawyer, I am an Eurissa attorney, so employee benefits.

Speaker 3: 3:17

I recently, though, stopped practicing law, and it's been, overall, really positive change for me. It's a big change, but it was the right time to step away, and I'm not sure what I'll do long term, but right now I'm doing a few things like I am a session member for my church here in St Louis University City and to church it's really dedicated to social justice, so that's been very rewarding for me. And then I'm also going to help start a Missouri chapter of an organization called Whitney Strong, which is you should look it up, it's an awesome organization that is based in Louisville but there's some St Louis ties and pretty much dedicated to reducing gun violence and bipartisan pragmatic ways. So, yeah, it's an exciting time and thank you, natalie, for reaching out to me, for reading the book and inviting me on this is my first podcast, hey come on, so you're an author as well.

Speaker 3: 4:17

I like to describe myself as that. Yeah, so the book is Paths to Motherhood, it's available on Amazon, it's self-published, it's an anthology, so I think we have 11 authors total, including myself. And, yeah, it's our stories, our paths to motherhood, our stories how we got to the place we are now, whether it be through IVF, like myself, adoption, embryo adoption, traditional adoption. There were, there are some authors who got pregnant naturally, but it took time. So how are? They had losses before, which I did as well. So, yeah, so I do. I like to describe myself as an author, but maybe I need to write a couple more books to really really claim that title.

Speaker 2: 5:09

So anything within fertility and motherhood, it's birth. I'm so there.

Speaker 3: 5:14

Yeah, well, I appreciate that and I feel the same.

Speaker 1: 5:17

So, natalie, did you meet Catherine from reading her book then?

Speaker 2: 5:22

Yeah, I somehow saw it on Facebook I don't know how you did Ever so randomly and popped up and I started looking at it. I was trying to like find out some more information on you. Honestly, yeah, I ended up ordering the book. I read it right away, within like a summer trip to the lake. I remember reading it at the lake and it was a time when, like, a new friend of mine was going through treatment, I was like how do I think?

Speaker 3: 5:53

Which is amazing that you did that, by the way.

Speaker 2: 5:57

Well, she ended up getting pregnant like right after that. So awesome.

Speaker 3: 6:02

I'm sure it was enlightening to you to read women's stories about something that you had never been through. And yeah, I don't know who. I think it's a book for. I was gonna say I don't know who gravitates toward it the most, but I think it's a book for many different people. It's a book for. It's kind of like a chicken noodle for the soul type of Remember. I mean, maybe you guys are a little bit younger than me.

Speaker 3: 6:25

But, you know, yeah, yeah, and it's pick it up if you are going through, obviously, infertility or pregnancy loss or both of them, but also if you're trying to understand it, or if you are trying to gosh kind of pay tribute, so to speak, to a time that you went through something like that. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 6:50

And I still have the book for me.

Speaker 3: 6:53

Thanks, natalie, thanks, yeah, I guess maybe that's a good segue then into my first I shouldn't say my first pregnancy. It was technically my third pregnancy, but my first, yeah. Yeah, and I do. I write a lot more about my infertility struggles in the book, so I'll just briefly summarize them here. And for those of you listening, you can't see that I'm such a lawyer. I have my notes here, so I'm gonna try not to On my legal pad or legal pad, Of course, that's all I have at home. But I mean, this was 2015 when I gave birth for the first time.

Speaker 3: 7:30

So I did, I looked back at it was kind of, it was meaningful to and it definitely brought back feelings of nostalgia when I was looking at all of this stuff that I had written during my pregnancy, and I did write my birth story shortly after that. But also, you know like, well, this just turned eight this week, so it was just like it was an emotional week. I'm looking back, but, yeah, so for those of you, even if you're not going through infertility, I mean, and if it's not your first pregnancy, if it's your third or fourth, try to like. I just sent emails to myself, like jotting down you know what the week was like, and I obviously did it less and less as time went on, but it was fun to look back at. So we got married, heath and I, in 2011, in June 2011, and then he went to business school in Evenson. He is a Kellogg grad and so I was working, he was I don't know if you guys are familiar with the MBA program, but it's very fun. It's not like law school you it's very social. I should say. I'm not saying it's easy, but it was very social.

Speaker 3: 8:41

So he was having the time of his life and he was not necessarily I mean, we were 27,. We got married. We were like 28 at this point. He was not eager, he didn't feel pressure to have a baby. That was not where most of our friends were. We were in Chicago, where people tend to get married a little bit later than they do in Kansas City or St Louis or other you know small towns, not even small cities. But by the end of 2012, I had pressured him enough to start trying and we just you know we didn't get pregnant right away and I was I'm a warrior, so I didn't know if it meant anything, but I was worried and I'm very impatient. I have good qualities too, but those are some of my not so endearing qualities and so I was like, oh, something's wrong. And actually something probably was wrong, but at the time I was like very negative about it. You know, if it meant something or not, by April I had convinced my OBGYN to do I'm blanking on the name of it now. I think it's.

Speaker 2: 9:51

H-M-A-M-H-A-M-H. Why?

Speaker 3: 9:56

Yes, I did that too, you're right. Good job, natalie. What's the procedure? See, this is why it was so long ago, I don't remember. H-c-g are your levels. What's the when you can see they can visualize your tubes, your fallopian tubes. Thank you, I've been in it.

Speaker 1: 10:14

She's so happy You're in it. I love it.

Speaker 3: 10:17

Oh my gosh. So it's funny how you do forget these things. That was my world back then, you know I knew everything. So an H-S-G to visualize my fallopian tubes, because I had had some symptoms that made me think maybe I had endometriosis, but kind of harder it was then to diagnose that without surgery. So it was just kind of pulling straws at this point. What maybe could this give us information? Well, it does sort of the test clean out your fallopian tubes, and so I did end up getting pregnant that month.

Speaker 3: 10:48

But I had my first miscarriage shortly after that and it was devastating. Again, I won't go in the book goes into a lot more detail, of course, but it was absolutely devastating. It was hard for our marriage. It was a really low time. My 13 was probably one of my worst years, which you know it's not. I have a very termed life. So fortunately the lowest of the low was not horrible, but it was dark time for me. And by the end of that year we finally went to see a reproductive endocrinologist and he was like, oh, you're so young. I really got sick of hearing that early on too, because, as anyone who's been through infertility knows, like it can happen for a variety of reasons, and it doesn't have to have anything to do with your age.

Speaker 2: 11:38

You know, we have 45 year olds coming to us and then we I'm all of a sudden they're like birth, that are 2000. Isn't that crazy? And I'm like, wait, wait, wait.

Speaker 3: 11:47

Yeah, that makes you feel you're like wait, I need to do the math here, yeah, and then I look and I'm like oh my God, how old am I?

Speaker 2: 11:52

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 11:53

I know.

Speaker 2: 11:54

It's just like age.

Speaker 3: 11:56

Yeah, agreed. So anyway, I heard a lot of that, but he was responsive, like we. I started clomid to see because they thought that maybe my right side was blocked by some endometriosis. But they weren't sure. So we did clomid to try to increase the chances that I would at least have more follicles maybe on the left side that wasn't blocked. We did that for three months and nothing. And then the fourth month, I think, I had a sister something and couldn't do it. I forget all the details but anyway.

Speaker 3: 12:29

So my insurance coverage at the time I was in Illinois covered IVF, so I would. That did contribute to me being more open-minded to IVF, like most people don't want to do IVF, but I kind of did. A part of me did. I thought, look, this was meant for originally meant for people, women who had blocked tubes. So let's do it. And so fast forward. We did it. It was hard, it was really hard, but it did result in another pregnancy and that resulted, unfortunately, in another miscarriage. It was a pivotal time and I write about this in the book where it was just my second miscarriage. Just really it did change me in really important ways. I resolved to dig in and try to change my lifestyle and heaths. We did a lot of things that, if they didn't increase our fertility, rather they helped our overall health. As we have a shelter dog sitting next to us right now Liz's new dog I'm thinking back to things I did during that time where I was really not knowing if I was going to be a mom.

Speaker 3: 13:46

I volunteered at PAWS Chicago, which is like Oprah's it's not her shelter, I'm putting air quotes here. She just has donated a lot. It's just an amazing organization. I really dedicated more time to my friendships and try to be more empathetic and same with my marriage, and I started taking violin lessons. That was a really I look back at that time with fondness too. It wasn't all bad.

Speaker 3: 14:20

Once I had that second miscarriage, we decided to change clinics, ivf clinics and we did IVF again October. Oh my gosh, this is October, october 2014. For the second time, because that first IVF cycle we only had one embryo left over and they transferred that to our second IVF clinic. Then we ended up having a total after that second IVF nine. Nine frozen embryos that were chromosome tested. So PGS tested chromosome only normal, I guess, is what you would say.

Speaker 3: 15:00

I wanted to rush into the transfer, but I forget all the details. Part of it was Christmas time, the holidays, rather. The clinic took off for three weeks. I don't know if you guys do that here. Anyway, it pushed it to January and, as you guys, everything happens. I'm not saying everything for a reason, but it just happens in a really cool way if you lean into it and you're open to that. I always wanted this is so silly but I always wanted a fall baby. And then I freaking have an October 4th due date, so we'll get into the pregnancy now, I guess. Unless you guys have questions, I'm just talking your ear off here.

Speaker 2: 15:45

No, I love it. Honestly, I am religious at all, but I love the part of your book where you say I'm in the belly of the whale, I don't know what. That it's always sick with me and I just love that part. Because you said that you like more emphasis, focus your marriage friendships took up all these hobbies you were in this matter of like. Am I going to pursue IVF more?

Speaker 3: 16:14

Right, yeah, I know it was a pivotal moment and I named my story after that. Isn't it so crazy that I run across this blog post? I mean, you guys, this was 2013 and 2014. There were not these podcasts, there was not big little feelings, there was not. Instagram existed, but it was not what it is today. That's right. There was not.

Speaker 3: 16:40

And I know now, even like Kristen from Big Little Feelings talks about, she wanted to know what a miscarriage was like. I was literally googling on my couch during a miscarriage. What is it like? Because, and like, I found a clip from Beyonce, like I mean now I'm going off on a tangent, for sure, but I just I was trying to piece together a lot during this time without, I felt like a lot of support, and now, even with all the support out there, it is still undoubtedly a very isolating time. So, but yeah, I'm not terribly religious either, even though I'm a session member at my church.

Speaker 3: 17:20

I question a lot, you know, and I questioned a lot during my infertility and then, when my daughter was born, it really was like, oh my gosh, she was meant for me. I don't know how that works. I don't know how we're connected. None of us really know, but there was something that I really truly felt in like my gut but yeah, so the pregnancy was so. The way I guess I would describe it is I. It was really hard for me to get pregnant and stay pregnant, but all three of my pregnancies since then have been really easy, fortunately. I had some nausea with Harlow, but I was super grateful for that. I came from a place of just like major gratitude and I don't want to complain because I want this so bad. So that was good because I am a complainer.

Speaker 3: 18:10

So it's like good that I went through what I did, because, oh my gosh, I can't even imagine what if I would have gotten pregnant the first month. You guys, I'd have been a terror to my husband if nothing else.

Speaker 3: 18:21

Yeah, so we moved to St Louis during that time. That's like a long, convoluted story that, but it did have something to do with we wanted to be closer to our families and we were having a baby. So that was really again like looking back to that, especially that first I call it my first pregnancy, but my first baby that I have in my arms, like that time when I was pregnant with her I do, I look back with so much fondness, and it was the summer we moved here, and then, just this time, right Like October, I thought, though, that I was going to have a September baby, because a lot of my friends had randomly had their babies early, and I'm a fairly petite person I don't know why I thought that mattered. Like I can't hold this baby in or something I don't know.

Speaker 3: 19:16

And so I we get to September and that's when I started to get irate. I'm like this I'm 36 weeks pregnant. This is miserable. I've seen a chiropractor. I had a doula. We hired one here in St Louis so she was helping me like find a chiropractor and acupuncturist. So I was doing all the things and it's still miserable. And that is when I remember I started complaining and I look back at my like emails to myself and that's when I'm like, try not to complain, but this is, this is really hard and miserable. So anyway, four days past my due date, I go into my to see my OBGYN, who was he was great, he did ultrasounds every visit and then that gave me a lot of assurance that he's not here anymore, unfortunately. He was awesome Like coming from and I did kind of skip over this. There was definitely anxiety, you know, during that pregnancy. But I'll be honest, like once we got to probably second trimester, I like I had this feeling and I'm a warrior I had this feeling that it was going to be okay.

Speaker 3: 20:24

Um yeah, the first like couple months were there was a lot of anxiety, but it wasn't overwhelming because I knew this was different. It felt different. It doesn't mean nothing bad can happen, but it wasn't like my other two pregnancies before that that had ended in miscarriage very early, like eight weeks. So anyway, um yeah, overall pregnancy was uneventful, thankfully, and I even, like, was pregnant during a really hot summer. I mean, they're all hot here and people don't realize in St Louis there's so much humidity. Oh yeah, I realize.

Speaker 3: 20:57

You know, but people that are from here don't realize it because they don't know that we are where the source of so many rivers and there's so much water here and it is fricking miserable. But yeah, I suffered through that and I was like it's fine, I, I can get through this. Um, and October came, october 4th came and it went and I still was like this is so. I was like I am being punished, like all my friends had their babies early. Um, and so we went four days after my due date. Um, the OBGYN was like you know what? I'm actually going out of town this weekend. I was like nope, what. So he said he would induce me that night and I was like I was kind of shocked, just because I don't know, I didn't think I would be induced. I had a doula was like no, I'm in it.

Speaker 3: 21:47

Just. But no, I was like, great, I'm ready for this. Um, we checked in at 9pm, which I didn't know was a thing until I was told that we check people in at all all hours, all hours. Yeah, I'm like, okay, I'll wait all day.

Speaker 3: 22:04

Um, and we went and had dinner beforehand at IHOP. So Brianna was just by our house, we then we lived in Clayton and then there's IHOP right back down the street and I guess I just was trying to have like toast and like that's why we went there. Like you know, like things that would not be discussed, like I didn't have bacon, for example. Yeah, exactly Like I had eggs and toast, I think. So our waiter, who may have been under the influence of something I don't know, like like 8pm and I don't know if it was he or she, comes up to us and we didn't know if we were having a boy or girl and our boy name was Graham and I swear we both, heath and I both heard the waiter say something like Graham Cracker. Like do you want? Like Graham Cracker? I swear this person was. Can I say, hi, they're high on something Like can I say that?

Speaker 3: 22:54

And yes, and but we were like, oh my gosh, that's a sign we're having a boy.

Speaker 1: 22:59

And.

Speaker 3: 22:59

I thought we were having a boy all along. I'd had one dream at the beginning of having a girl, and I did. I wanted a girl. Heath said he didn't care, which I did, and of course you know you just want a healthy baby, it's true, but I prefer to girl.

Speaker 3: 23:14

So we get to the hospital and like obviously we now think we're having a boy and our doula, I mean, met us there and I was 80% faced like when we got there it was like what, where did this come from? Because I had been. I was like nothing earlier that morning. So they broke my water, which was disgusting. I was, I couldn't get over how much fluid there was. It was so embarrassed. It's like this is disgusting. Like every time I got up, I mean you guys know it just keeps cut, like I thought, like your water breaks and then you're done, but it's not like that and there's so much blood in, oh my gosh. So anyway, the doula helped me a lot.

Speaker 3: 24:01

I was so happy I had a doula there because I love my husband to death, but I just didn't want to rely on her for our first time. I just didn't know what they're doing. They just don't, they do not and a doula does and she was wonderful and she would do the oil. She would try to get me in different positions. I was very resistant to that. I don't remember any of this but reading back through my notes or my email that I guess I wrote like a week after the birth I now remember like she got me in the shower at one point and it did feel good, but, like you know, getting my monitor or whatever I had on me at the time and like having to get up and move when I was like in this one position, that felt good, I just did not want to do it. I mean.

Speaker 3: 24:42

So they probably broke my water around before 10pm and I mean they start puttosing a few hours in, like maybe four hours in, and I was told I was at between a four and a five. So I'm like okay. So they thought that the baby was low and this was going to go quickly and it did not. I mean it wasn't horrible. Like you guys have heard it all You've heard really quick and really yeah. And then, like people that have gone through 23 hour labors are like shut up. It was not, it was horrible.

Speaker 3: 25:17

But I mean by 7am I remember there was a shift change, you know, the new nurse comes in and I did not like this nurse is really unfortunate, because I liked everyone else at this hospital, but she was just really insensitive and she, you could tell, just said things the way that she wanted to say things like I recommend labor, you know, like not at cool. And then one thing that was just really discouraging and had nothing to do with her, but she told me that I was at a five, Whereas like I guess an hour or two before that they had said I was between a six and seven and I was like discouraging, you know, I was at that point. I remember I was getting really defeated and I think we called our, my doctor and they we ultimately decided to like I remember we had him on the phone, like with with my doula, and they talked me into an internal monitor and then upping my ptosin but like gradually come to find out they were doing it like every 20 minutes, like increasing it a lot, and so it got intense and I you know, by this point it was like like 9am, 10am in the morning and I just couldn't do it anymore. You guys, like I was.

Speaker 3: 26:34

I remember at one point I got, I was completely naked. I don't know how that I mean not that that's weird because you're in labor but I just don't remember getting completely naked and I, you were up all night. Yes, I was so tired, natalie, and I hadn't taken a nap that day because I was so anxious about this induction that was going to happen. And then the few nights before that, I think I have been having some labor. I just didn't know for sure, but I think that was what it was like more back labor. So I had a ton of sleep. So I was exhausted, utterly exhausted, and disoriented because the room was dark. And then I remember, when the anesthesiologist finally came, the lights were on and it was 10am outside, you know. So it was just very, it was just disheveled.

Speaker 3: 27:21

But so, yeah, like I start to go through transition I didn't realize it at the time and I am, I'm like at a breaking point and like I cannot do this any longer, like because the pittosin, I'm announced to me at the time had been turned up so much, Like I mean, it was the contractions were coming so fast and they were so much more intense because of pittosin. And, yeah, I just was like I need an epidural and that I was a little hesitant because I didn't know if I could sit still and my husband and Dula read that, as is she going to regret this when I was not like gung-ho about I'm definitely not getting an epidural, I preferred not to get one, but I was never saying, you know, I never went into it being like I'm definitely doing this without one. So that frustrated me because I'm like guys, no, I, I freaking, want one. Like I don't know if we can cast on this, but I'll try not to.

Speaker 3: 28:20

But they have little feelings. I'm like channeling their podcast and I'm also sitting here thinking I'm so exhausted right now because it's what like eight, almost nine o'clock PM here, and do you guys listen to their podcast?

Speaker 2: 28:33

Oh yeah, we are the biggest gang, but like I'm so happy to have yeah.

Speaker 3: 28:39

I still, I still. That's what I feel like right now. But anyway, and that's what I felt like then. So the anesthesiologist does come in and I am just I. Oh, I had told them when I found out how high my pitocin was, to turn it off how high, did it get. That's a great question. I don't I want to say like is 20, like that, that's insane. Okay, maybe it's not 20, then Maybe it's not.

Speaker 2: 29:00

Oh my God, my OB was like, it was like two, four, eight, then like three hours.

Speaker 3: 29:06

Yeah, and that's how we started. To Natalie, I feel so, yeah, it probably wasn't 20.

Speaker 3: 29:11

People listening to this are going to be like you're an idiot and I, I'm not a nurse, I'm a lawyer, so anyway I like it was, I was going through transition and I was also on a lot of pitocin, so that was not fun. So I get the epidural and guys, like I'd never regretted it, I never regretted it. It immediately obviously relaxed me and I had like an hour of rest, which was awesome. And then I think I started feeling pressure and they checked me and they're like you're at a 10, because I was at a nine. After I got the epidural, they finally they checked me again. I was at a nine. So I was like, oh my gosh, like I almost made it and I don't know how I could have done it any longer. Like I do not know how I could have done the ring of fire, like I just don't. And so I was at a 10 when, like an hour in, and they said it's time to push. I'm like I don't know how to, I don't know what this means. They're like, well, we'll help you. And I pushed apparently for like 45 minutes, which I feel like it seemed like a long time in the moment, but I know people that have pushed longer.

Speaker 3: 30:28

I do remember at one point, like they kept, some of the nurses kept saying the baby's almost here, the baby's almost here and ice. I know that's not true. You keep saying that. Don't say it again. I know it's not true. I know how this works, meaning, like you know, there's some progress and then the baby will kind of go back in, and then and so, yeah, so Dr arrives and I guess he asked me do you want to have a mirror to look? And I didn't, I don't know why, I just did not want to. At the time, I was just I guess I was just very fricking laser focused on getting this baby out. And, yeah, the baby comes out and I like look up, and I see, I do say this in the book the umbilical cord is what I must have seen, because I thought it was like a penis. Obviously, I only saw part of it and I just I think I remember thinking this is what I thought, like yeah, it's a boy, of course. And then what felt like a long time passed the baby's on my chest and he whispers in my ear it's a girl. And I was like, but I just lost it, you guys, and the unfortunate part of it is is that during this incredibly special time where I am, I'm in a lot of pain. They gave me a little more of the epidural, but I'm also like elated and all the emotions that you know you would think you're going to have, especially when it's been so hard to get to this point.

Speaker 3: 32:04

Um were somewhat overshadowed by the fact that Harlow was having trouble breathing, she was grunting, and so I have this on video, because my doula, um, did take some videos and it is like a almost like a wheezy sound too, and I never had a baby before, right, so I didn't know exactly what it was supposed to sound like, but I didn't think that was it. And so on the video you hear me saying like every couple, like I don't know, maybe every minute or two, is she okay? And they were like she is and they were kind of patting her back. And finally I don't know if it was like 10, 15 minutes, I have no idea they bring the NICU nurses in and they take her away. And that's when the nurse who greased my patousin more than I told her to, more than we had agreed to, and who was just very kind of brash and, um, not my favorite, she was really, really rude to me. I was like what is happening? Where is my baby? You know, I knew I think I knew she was going to the NICU, but I didn't know all the details. Like you know, what do you think? What is? What do you think is wrong? And she was just like snapped at me and luckily my doula was with me, or I would have been alone because obviously my husband went. You know, you can't after you have an epidural you excuse me, you can't get up right away, you can't walk. So she stayed, my doula stayed with me while Heath went to the NICU. And then I remember my parents came in and I was kind of a mess because it's not how you think it's going to happen, right? Um, fortunately things got better very quickly.

Speaker 3: 33:32

I don't want to go into too much other than she had trouble. Transitioning is what medical professionals call it. I just want to like respect her privacy. You know her medical privacy, if she were ever to listen to this, you know when she's older. But things did work out luckily and she was um there only for a few days.

Speaker 3: 33:53

That sucked, you know. Like even a few days of like. After two days you were released. You go home. I'm having to pump. It was, it was a lot. But, oh my gosh, my heart goes out to people who have to spend weeks, sometimes months, in the NICU. Like I cannot imagine. Um, people, you know we get through what we have to somehow and then I think after we're like, we decompress and it's like, how did we get through that? And I guess people that go through that um, just stay strong in the moment. You know you have to lean on your support system. But I didn't even have any other kids at the time that I had to take care of, so I could at least be there with her during the day, but we had to leave her at night because there was no place to sleep there.

Speaker 2: 34:36

So, anyway.

Speaker 3: 34:37

Um, that's pregnancy and birth and then postpartum. Um, yeah, I'm a very perfectionist. I feel like type A is kind of overused, so I'll be more specific. Like I'm, I have to have a to-do list, I have to be productive. Um, I'm just, I'm high strung and so having a newborn it rocks your world right Like no one has. You've never. No one who has their first baby has ever done this before. So it it's hard for everyone.

Speaker 3: 35:08

But, um, yeah, that made you know, you hear, especially after before your time, like Brooke Shields talked about um postpartum depression. That was very novel for someone to come out, public figure, to come out and talk about that. It was very brave, and I remember hearing about it. Um, and I think that was the genesis of, at least in my head, of people talking about that more, which was great. But, yeah, it is so true, you don't hear about the anxiety that oftentimes is part of this postpartum experience, for a variety of reasons, not just hormones, um, lack of sleep and, oh, I don't know, like having a human that you are responsible for. You know Like that is. And so my anxiety for me. It looks different for everyone, but for me it was around, um, a few things. Her sleep like oh my gosh, if she's looking tired, I have to put her down. Like oh, I don't want her to get over tired.

Speaker 3: 36:07

Like it was so ridiculous because I took it to an extreme you know, and then, um, illness is I am a germaphobe and so that I didn't want people to touch her without washing their hands. That was I. Yeah, I would have freaked out if, like, uh, someone would have come up to me at Target and tried to touch my baby like, or kiss my baby. Yeah, no, like I would have. I would have this. I don't want to say it's like resting face, but, um, I have something about me that tells people not to like approach me Like I don't get approach when I go to a bar I don't get like approached Like that's not. Um, I have something about me and my husband appreciates that so, or at least he should.

Speaker 3: 36:54

But anyway, yeah, like I am not approachable um in certain circumstances.

Speaker 1: 36:58

Like when I don't want to be, when I travel like in a like do not yes yes, but it does also help.

Speaker 3: 37:07

When you're in Target with a newborn, people don't yeah, and I didn't have a lot of people touch my belly when I was pregnant either, like some people do. Some people do yeah or comment even. Anyway, we could talk all night about those things. I did have some comments and I didn't handle them well.

Speaker 3: 37:25

Um, but anyway, that was a lot of it too. Illnesses, oh and yeah, like the breastfeeding it was the doula helped and having that. So I think what a lot of people maybe don't know is doulas not only help with the birth but they help with the postpartum, or I mean, I guess you can set it up however you want, but my doula offered, I want to say, like two postpartum visits or something like that, and then she became my friend so she didn't care if I texted her. I was respectful of her time. I wouldn't text her at 12 am but yeah, she lived close. I remember she helped me figure out those damn what are they called? I had a doula with my third but the baby the wrap well, it wasn't a soli, it was something even by 2015.

Speaker 1: 38:17

I don't know it was whatever.

Speaker 3: 38:20

It was like you had to do all these knots and, oh my gosh, I never mastered that. But I remember there was one time I was cooking because, again, I'm someone that had to be doing stuff and like, oh, I need to make dinner. And I remember I was so proud when I cooked dinner one time. This was actually probably really dangerous Don't do this, if you're listening because I was by a stove but I was wearing her and I was doing stuff with one hand. I've been there, done that, yeah, and I remember my dad being like yep, you get a lot, you can figure out a lot. You can figure out what you can do with one hand, can't you? You know something like that. I was like, yeah, and you're right, but I don't think you really realize how hard this is.

Speaker 2: 39:03

Yeah, Well, it's just so funny how much we can do with one hand.

Speaker 1: 39:10

But our.

Speaker 3: 39:12

Yeah, sometimes they can't. Yes, we could also talk about that topic for a while, but we might digress. Yeah, yeah, no, but in all seriousness, my husband was very helpful. He got up once Harlow started sleeping through the night. She was a good sleeper. He would get up if she ever did wake up. So because I was like I don't want her to think that I'm going to feed her Once she was sleeping through the night, that was like my excuse. I'm like I have to get ready for work in the morning, like you do it, and he did. You know he really always did.

Speaker 3: 39:41

But yeah, there was a lot of anxiety Even around not having time to do the things that I wanted to do and yeah, that sounds selfish, but I mean also laundry and, of course, showering, because, again, I'm just a very like guys, I have to do this throughout the day of what I wake up in the morning and I kind of have a rough idea of what I want to get done. So, yeah, that was a change. But I also have such amazing memories of that time too, like Harlow was my baby out of all three that slept with me, not at night, but napped with me the most. So we would do the contact naps and I remember one time we had like a three hour nap together. She was just on top of me in our guest room and, like those are, I'll never forget those moments, you know. So that's child one.

Speaker 2: 40:35

And that she was like brought to you, like your soul were connected. And I like so sweet because I know that.

Speaker 3: 40:45

Do you? So I do. I feel like Harlow is someone, so she's my child, that I feel like I know the most at this point because she's my oldest right, I spent the most time with her without any other kid around, and I do. I was just telling my husband this the other night, as it was I think it was on her birthday Like if there is something after this life, I think I would recognize Harlow's soul, I think I would recognize it, and I don't know if I had felt that ever before, you know. So, yeah, thanks for remembering that I said that about her soul. So should we go into my second? Yeah, okay, mr Harry, yeah, so he's such a character, oh he, and he's so cute and so sweet.

Speaker 3: 41:43

The Pregnancy, harrison, was a complete surprise, and, yeah, so I don't talk about any of this in my book. My book is about my path to motherhood, how I arrived at that destination, and I just don't go into the other pregnancy because it's not what it's about. But so I like that. I have this opportunity to to discuss the other two a little bit more. Harlow was a year and a half, it was January, so at the same time that we did our retrieval, you know, for her, or transfer. Rather, just two years later, it's January 2017. And we went to Hawaii with my parents and I remember being on this boat. We were whale watching, which was really cool, but I was, so I had such motion sickness and I thought that was kind of weird, but or I don't know if I thought it was weird, but it just was, it was a lot, and no one else had it on the boat. And come home from that trip, and I'm like, oh, I haven't had my period and I was a little different now, but then I was really regular like 28 days, even if I traveled, and that was not a reason why. And so I was like, oh, my gosh, I could be pregnant. No way, though, there's no way, but I could be.

Speaker 3: 43:03

And so I just like happened to that morning, like, like I said, look at my calendar. I looked at my calendar, realized I was late and got a pregnancy test on my way to work and I took a test in my office bathroom and I was like, I mean, it came up immediately. It's like those COVID tests, if you have it, it comes up, okay, like we all know now, yeah, you know, you know, and it's 2023. So we all know it comes up really freaking fast. It's not like you know, back in 2021, we were like I don't know these tests work, these COVID tests? No, it's like pregnancy test, if you are.

Speaker 3: 43:42

It comes up and I just, but I had never had that. I mean I had taken one with Harlow because I wanted to, after I had the call from the IVF clinic. I that's a whole other story too, but I I took one because I like wanted to take a picture of this positive pregnancy test and so, yeah, I had done that, but otherwise I had never had something like this happen. You know where I was completely surprised and and it stuck like this pregnancy stuck, and I just remember being in the bathroom stall. I mean, like no fucking way, and I hope I can cuss on this, because you guys are going to have to bleep this out if I can't.

Speaker 1: 44:23

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Golden Hour Birth podcast. That was the end of part one of Catherine's story. We'll be back next week with part two. Thank you for joining us on this episode of the Golden Hour Birth podcast. We hope you've enjoyed our discussion and found it insightful and beneficial. Remember, the Golden Hour Birth podcast is made possible by the support of listeners like you. If you appreciate the content we bring you each week, consider leaving us a review on your favorite podcast platform or sharing the show with your friends and family. Your support helps us reach more people and continue creating valuable episodes.

Speaker 1: 45:04

If you have any questions, suggestions or topics you'd like us to cover in future episodes, we'd love to hear from you. You can reach us on our website, wwwgoldenhourbirthpodcast, or connect with us on social media. We value your feedback and want to make sure that we're delivering the content you want to hear. Before we sign off, we'd like to express our gratitude to our incredible guest who joined us today. We are honored that they trust us enough to be so open and vulnerable. We're grateful for their time and willingness to share their stories with us. If you're interested in taking the conversation further with us, join us on our Facebook group, the Golden Hour Birth Circle. We'll be back next week with another exciting episode, so be sure to tune in. Until then, stay golden and remember to take care of yourself. We'll catch you on the next episode of the Golden Hour Birth Podcast. Bye.