Katherine: Part 2- Journey through Infertility, Unexpected Pregnancy, and Childbirth amid a Pandemic

What does it really mean to navigate the winding road of motherhood? What if you had to encounter detours like infertility, unexpected pregnancies, and decisions that test your emotional strength? That's the reality for many mothers, including our guest for today's Golden Hour Birth podcast. Katherine Hunter, a brave soul who shares her journey through motherhood's peaks and valleys, will discuss her experience with infertility treatments, a natural subsequent pregnancy, and the process of making tough decisions about her remaining embryos.

Motherhood doesn't stop at giving birth; it's a journey that continues to evolve. We'll take you through the contrasting experiences of our first and second births, the use of induction and epidurals, and the sheer importance of trusting your instincts when making decisions about childbirth. The impact of COVID-19 on giving birth is a topic we touch upon, revealing how the pandemic has reshaped our experiences in ways we never imagined.

As we journey through the realm of motherhood, we share our birth stories and experiences of raising children amidst the new normal. Katherine discusses her initiative to create an anthology about infertility and pregnancy loss, emphasizing the power of shared stories and their ability to resonate with others. Tune in for an honest and relatable perspective on motherhood's complexities, and let's navigate this journey, one episode at a time.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Have you ever thought about how to navigate the rollercoaster of emotions from infertility treatments to managing unexpected pregnancies? This question sets the stage for today's podcast episode, where we welcome Catherine Hunter. Catherine shares her unique journey through various paths to motherhood, facing challenges of infertility along the way, experiencing the joy and surprise of a natural subsequent pregnancy to finally deciding what to do with her embryos. This is part two of Catherine's story, so if you haven't listened to part one, go listen to that first and then come back here for part two, the Golden Hour Birth Podcast, a podcast about real birth stories and creating connections through our shared experiences Childbirth isn't just about the child.

Speaker 2: 0:48

It's about the person who gave birth their lives, their wisdom and their empowerment.

Speaker 1: 0:53

We're Liz and Natalie, the Golden Hour Birth Podcast, and we're here to laugh with you, cry with you and hold space for you.

Speaker 3: 1:05

After I had the call from the IVF clinic. That's a whole other story too, but I took one because I wanted to take a picture of this positive pregnancy test and so, yeah, I had done that. But otherwise I never had something like this happen, where I was completely surprised and it stuck like this pregnancy stuck, and I just remember being in the bathroom stall, I mean like no fucking way, and I hope I can cuss on this, because you guys are going to have to bleep this out if I can't.

Speaker 3: 1:37

Okay, yeah, sorry, I'm trying to restrain, show some restraint, but that is what I said. I did. I was like no fucking way. And my husband was in a meeting, I knew that. So I called my best friend who was in Kansas City and she was like, oh my gosh, because she's just one of those friends who is just so empathetic and just she's a nurse too and she's just been through all of this with me, you know this roller coaster, and she's a mom too. And then I finally got ahold of Heath and he was just an utter disbelief.

Speaker 3: 2:15

And so then for the first few weeks I was definitely anxious because I was like, oh my gosh, we don't know. Like we had planned on transferring one of our other embryos that are already PGS tested, and you know this was just so unplanned and I'm like, oh my gosh, what if something is wrong? Or what if this doesn't work? Because obviously I've had miscarriages before and my progesterone did. They were. I asked my doctor, bless his heart, to track it carefully and he did what is it? Your HCG and progesterone? And my HCG was good, but my progesterone did start to dip some. So he prescribed that, which I mean I know that the data is conflicting on, does it help or not but it made me feel better. And then we got to the ultrasound, the first ultrasound, and like great heartbeat, and I was like oh my gosh. And we told our parents, I don't know, like a few weeks after that, and we asked Harlow, you know, do you think you're having a bubba or a sissy? And she was again like 15 months at the time. It was like bubba and she never wavered, like it was. She is having a bubba. We didn't find out what this pregnancy either.

Speaker 3: 3:19

So I mean, this pregnancy was different. I complained a lot more because I like wasn't in, like this, this, this mindset that I was with Harlow. I don't want to say like that I should have been or whatever, but yeah, I just I was grateful, of course, and utterly shocked, but I just wasn't as prepared. You know, it was like I wasn't, I wasn't ready, I didn't feel like I was ready, and so that's hard, you know, and and we can have all these different emotions, like we can be grateful and, you know, have a paradoxal emotion alongside that. That's that's life. Things are not black and white, you know. I think we forget that as humans, we want things to be black and white. And no, you can have many different feelings at the same time and they're all valid. And yeah, that was definitely my pregnancy with Harrison. Oh my gosh. And yeah it is. You both know it's no joke to be pregnant with a toddler, so that was hard, but you get through it.

Speaker 3: 4:22

Like Harlow definitely started watching more TV and you just snap on the couch and I ordered a lot of pizza, you guys, I was so hungry, like with Harrison, oh, natalie, there was more than one time that I ate an entire pizza by myself. And again, those of you who are not on my episode and I'm people like I am like a petite person and I had no issues doing this multiple times. It's like a thing Like it Eat a whole pizza if you're pregnant and don't look back. It's amazing. I'm like I'm not one right now. And yeah, I did. I ate a lot of car and he is my carb king now. It's so funny.

Speaker 3: 5:13

And yeah, what else about the pregnancy? I got bigger a lot quicker too, which, of course, is the case with a subsequent pregnancy, but I also, like, with my third, I didn't get as big. I think it's something to do with, obviously, my pizza eating, my pizza consumption. But then being a boy, yeah, like, the birth was at the same hospital with the same doctor and I did want to be induced, because what I failed to mention earlier is I alluded to it but my due date was the same day as my daughter. Like, is my daughter's birthday, which is just crazy.

Speaker 3: 5:52

You know just like this, this one time, that we kind of weren't careful because we didn't think we needed to be or that we should be, because we didn't think that we could even get pregnant. That's just nuts that then the due date is my daughter's birthday, so I didn't want to be in the hospital for her birthday. And now it's so funny because Harlow always talks about how it's so unfair she has to wait to have her birthday and I tried to explain to her, like how this came to be and I was like, well, should I just let you guys have the same birthday? Harlow? She's like, no, no, no, I wouldn't have liked that. So, yeah, so I was induced at 39 weeks in one day and my mom came and say that's another reason why I liked the idea of being induced, because then my mom could drive from Kansas City, we knew when she should come. We did Harlow's birthday party, her second birthday party, like a few days earlier, because again, I'm psychotic and do these things to myself Like, yeah, plan a big birthday party while you're 38 weeks pregnant. Yeah, so I remember we got to the hospital. It took a while to check in and then they checked me and I would not have remembered this if I wouldn't have written it down at the time. I was 70% in phase and like three and a half centimeters dilated. So again they broke my water, just like with Harlow, and I didn't have a doula this time and I really struggled with that, like I a part of me, you know, I loved my doula and I really wanted her to be there, but I struggled with justifying the cost and I just didn't know if it was necessary and I hindsight's 2020 and for me it wasn't necessary. But I think that everyone's different and you have to know yourself, you know in your situation and it just happened to turn out really well for me.

Speaker 3: 7:54

Like I labored on the labor ball for a few hours. I did like oils, like my doula had done, and then I was just like I'm ready for the epidural, like I knew this time going into it that I was going to get the epidural and you guys, seriously, within an hour of getting the epidural. So this is what, like I think four and a half, hold on. I get there like 830 and check in. I think they started labor at sorry, like they brought my water at 930. He was born at 120. So that's yeah, that's like four hours. So I mean, within an hour of getting the epidural, I was completely out of 10 and the nurse came and checked on me and I was oblivious and she's like, oh, you're out of 10. She puts my legs in the stirrup and she has to take them out because he is right there, like his head is there, and she's like, wow, we have to call the doctor and he luckily, you know, was able to get there fairly quickly. I mean, I was just sitting there like, wow, this is awesome. Like I seriously love giving birth, like it's such like, do you agree, I 100%, it's such a great, like.

Speaker 3: 9:13

I remember that after Harlow, too, I was so out of my body too, and I think that especially but with anyone, you know, we're all critical of ourselves but especially if you've been through infertility, you know, and you're so hard on yourself because, oh, I should be able to do the one thing that women quote should be able to do, you know. And so I was just so on cloud nine after that. And then this I'm like, oh my gosh, this was. I mean I hope this doesn't offend anyone listening, because everyone does have different experiences and no one's experience is better. It doesn't make someone better or worse, like we have had so many amazing women come on and talk about C sections and just I love that you honor all births, how they happen.

Speaker 3: 10:04

But I, I, this, this was easy, like this. Harrison was easy and that was amazing. I mean I didn't even push the doctor, put my legs and start when he serves. When he arrived and pulled him out and immediately Heath is just yelling it's a boy. It's a boy, he's a lady and that was really cool to see and I figured it was a boy. I was scared to have a boy. I don't really fully understand that, but so glad I have one now. Oh my gosh, especially as I have an older daughter who sometimes can be a little sassy, like having, I mean he, and he lets me still pick out his clothes, not all the time, he's like mom. Why do I have to look so handsome?

Speaker 3: 10:47

But because you are yeah exactly, and you know, I like, I love, like the trains and the hot wheels, and so I'm so glad that I have a boy. At the time it was, it seemed daunting to me. I'm like I don't, I don't know boys, boys. But Heath was so excited and yeah it was. I came home one after one day in the hospital. I won night, which was a mistake. I wanted to get Harlow hadn't met Harrison that day but I wanted to get home to her. I get it, but you know that was a lot, that was a lot. I get why I wanted to do that, but my mom left the day after I came home and Heath went to work. Oh no, uh-huh, and I remember you guys. So, okay, I had him on a Tuesday. I came home on a Wednesday. My mom left on Thursday morning. By Friday I was completely engorged, okay, we all know what that feels like, and it was Friday and so I have, whether it's reasonable or not, I feel like it's okay to come home sometimes early from work on Fridays. It's the weekend, so it's like maybe two pm and I have a baby that I'm trying to feed and a toddler who I think wasn't like napping or something. She was almost two and I'm in pain, like my boobs are very painful in this moment, and I call Heath and I'm like get home, oh, and bless his heart, he did. I mean, I don't want to say he got home immediately, obviously he didn't, but he was like okay, I will leave as soon as possible. But yeah, it was hard, you guys, it was. It was a. Really.

Speaker 3: 12:41

My postpartum time with Harrison was even harder for a variety of reasons. So I was in between nannies and Harlow went to school. I was just two mornings a week. It was nothing. It was not preschool, it was introduction to school, which is like worthwhile, it was awesome, but it was nothing in terms of childcare. It was two mornings a week for two and a half hours and it was actually honestly sometimes harder to go because then I had to yeah, I had to get the baby exactly, and like then sometimes wake him up to go get her. I could barely get anything done. I would sometimes be trying to nap and then it was time to go pick her up. But yeah, like Harlow was really needy, she wanted me to do everything for her. Dad could do nothing, and so it was.

Speaker 3: 13:29

And again, I'm a perfectionist and I try to do like everything the best way, which is such a fallacy and it just sets yourself up for failure, of course, but my anxiety contributed to this. I was just I was doing things like getting sitters for Harrison so I could take Harlow to go do something one-on-one, and I'm like I want to say like every week or two. It was silly, you know, and but I mean I love those times with her, but then I didn't bond with Harrison as much and he wasn't as good of a sleeper. I remember being in the shower crying one time and I was like am I ever gonna sleep again? Cause I just didn't know I didn't, I hadn't, I just hadn't been through that before, and I know that that's what a lot of people's first baby experiences like and spoiler alert, you will sleep again. It may be longer than others, I can't help, but it will pass. It's a season, and I leaned into that. That was like a mantra that finally did help me. Like nothing stays the same, the good does not stay the same. So try, you know, you always hear like, especially older people, be like I'll enjoy it and you want to punch them at least I do. Like you know what I get your point, but also you forget how hard this is. Okay, so say something a little more empathetic, and my empathetic tidbit would be yeah, just remember that the good does pass, but you know what, honey, the if I'm like 80 saying that to someone, the bad's gonna pass too. Like this is really hard right now, and just know that you're gonna get through it. Nothing stays the same. So that did help me, but I was.

Speaker 3: 15:18

I got back to work. I was so ready. My new nanny started and I worked four days. I didn't work Friday, so that was good, so I still had some time off. But yeah, that was just like challenging because I just felt like I didn't have a lot of help. I don't have family here. My mother-in-law did come up a lot to help me then, but then it got to a point where it was like, again, only so much she could do and I was getting Harrison on a sleep schedule finally and Harlow wanted mommy. So, yeah, so that was my second birth, pregnancy and postpartum and I feel like I've just talked your head off. You have any Maybe? Yeah, I think. Yeah, my third. Yeah, just stop me if you have questions and if you wanna elaborate on things like our significant others.

Speaker 3: 16:21

That's a whole, yeah whole see hey Heath, if you're listening I love you.

Speaker 3: 16:28

Okay. So, yeah, let's get to Halle, let's see. So I have my notes on my legal pad here. Okay, so this is an interesting I think interesting story, how Halle came to be. So oh, I forgot to tell you guys when, harlow, when we did the transfer, we transferred two embryos. Oh, really, we transferred a boy and a girl. We didn't know that. We did not ask the embryologists to pick gender or tell us. We did not want to know. Obviously, we kept it surprised the whole time. But they knew and they were just going off of the best, I think, female and male, so obviously only one stuck. It was Harlow, so that left seven frozen embryos. I mean, again, during my postpartum with Harrison, I was like two and done. I was, yeah, I always just wanted two kids, by the way. So it wasn't even like the postpartum was skewing things for me. I had just thought we would have two kids. It was.

Speaker 3: 17:33

it sounded like a nice even number and it is, by the way, a nice even number and it's a lot quieter to have two kids than it is to have three. But what I was doing during my maternity leave, part of what I was doing was looking into embryo donation. So I don't know if you know this, natalie, because I know you're kind of in this world, but people donate embryos and it's like a whole thing and it's interesting and it's admirable and it's amazing and hard and all of those things. And so I really started looking into it and I found a couple of families and there was one that I remember had a St Louis connection and was talking to them. I mean, it is kind of like dating. It's weird, you're trying to find someone that you think would be a good fit. And I asked them at one point. I said, well, again, it's mainly just you're trying to get to know them. Right, there's no right or wrong answer. But I said we have I think we had more boy embryos than girl embryos at the time, but it was like four boys, three girls. I was like do you have a preference? Because we didn't know if we were going to donate all of them and keep some. I was like would you have a preference on gender? And they, of course, said what anyone knows they need to say and they actually believe it, which is we just want a healthy baby. But we have tons of boys in our family. Like there's no boy grandchildren, our parents have no boys, we have no nieces, so it would be kind of cool to have a girl, and I swear that planted a seed in my head like over the next few weeks it ended up not working out. They're awesome. They ended up adopting traditionally, like they got a call. It was a really cool story and I follow her on Facebook and they live here now. So, hey, if you're listening, I won't say your name, but that was the genesis of like me being like, oh my gosh.

Speaker 3: 19:34

Maybe because I knew I had seen the report by that point because, again, we were going to donate the embryo. So when we transferred Harlow we didn't know the genders. They had like blacked it out on the report, but then I had asked for the report that said the gender. So I knew that our like best rated embryo was a girl, and then that played into this too. So I'm like maybe I want another girl. Yeah, it plants some like it starts something you don't like. It's usually like a you know snap of the finger, oh, I'm going to, I'm going to have another baby, you know. But it was. We started talking about it and I couldn't let it go. I knew I couldn't I still don't know what we're going to do with those embryos but I didn't. I couldn't donate those embryos without trying to have another, so we waited until the end of 2019. I did, you know, blood work here in St Louis. Our embryos were still in Chicago. So it's kind of cute.

Speaker 3: 20:32

Like we flew up in December of 2019 for the transfer. All four of us so Heath myself, harlow and Harrison and we always had excuse me, I don't know why, honestly, but maybe just try to be honest with our kids Told Harlow, like that you're, you know, a miracle. Like we tried so hard to get you we involved. Like we involved a doctor I don't use the word embryo, I called her a seed, the doctor, god helped and the doctor helped is what we tell her. Like the doctor helped put you the seed in. We needed extra help. And she's starting to ask me more questions now, which is complicated, but then, of course, she's four and Harrison's two, and so they come up and they know that we are going like we talked about Harlow, named her Halley, like we're going to get Halley. It just, it just is how it, like over the course of a year, came to be like we talked about it and so we're like flying up to Chicago to get Halley and we made it into like a little holiday trip and, oh my gosh, it worked. You know, like I find out a few weeks later that and I did I had a good feeling about it too in my gut and that pregnancy was even more tiring because, again, I had two kids. I remember having to nap whenever I could, like at work, whenever I could. But then 2020, it's 2020.

Speaker 3: 22:08

So around my third trimester, or sorry, my third month, so my first trimester is ending and the pandemic starts, and that was, I mean, I feel like that just overshadowed so much. You know, like I don't really remember a ton about being pregnant with her. I mean I remember we did do a gender reveal Like we wanted to. We knew what the report said the embryo was, but we wanted to be sure that that was what had happened. So we did like a gender reveal over Zoom. I remember like that's memorable, with some of our family, and we cut the cake that we had baked ourselves, which, oh my gosh, and Heath iced it. You know it's pink inside and we did like we made it. We made. I mean this was like March, you guys. This was like when schools were shut down in St Louis. We were every day trying to like do activities with our kids. You know, like this was, this was an activity, so we did that, and then I had like two kids at home while I was trying to work, which it could have been so much worse. You know I didn't have.

Speaker 3: 23:12

I do not know how people survived who had to go into a hospital, or I mean that's the obvious, very trying situation, but also target. If you have to work at a place where you don't get a paycheck, if you don't go, you have to go. And I just I don't know how we collectively got through that, but we we did. We got through that together, working at home, on and off, and I remember having a lot of negative feelings about being pregnant during COVID, like thinking this was a horrible idea. It was almost like I like needed to get it out. You know, I would say things to keep like this is such a mistake and I mean, I will say that now because, again, these are feelings and it's not.

Speaker 3: 24:01

I didn't truly not want to be pregnant, but there was a part of me that was very scared and that's it was manifesting in that way, you know, like these, these things that I was saying and I remember he did, he got frustrated with me some, but I think he mainly understood that that's what I was doing and it was just. It was just verbalizing fear. We were talking earlier, before we started recording, about this girl in St Louis, july 2020. So I was due in August, who, at 34 weeks, got COVID and had to have a C-section, an emergency C-section. That baby, of course, went to the NICU and he was fine, but she went on a ventilator and, by the grace of God, I guess, survived. But I mean, this was what we were being bombarded with, at least in this area of the country, and, yeah, I am a germaphobe to begin with.

Speaker 3: 24:58

So, it was just a very hard time but there was some positives that came out of it too. So, and that was more in the postpartum phase. But yeah, we did. We were able to bond more as a family and Heath was around more so he could help. So that was a true blessing. So I guess I'll just go to the birth. Then I delivered at a different hospital because my OBGYN had moved and I really liked my OBGYN. She was just affiliated with another hospital so I was like that's fine and it was a really great experience. We had another planned induction and at this point I was hold on, how old was I? She was born in August, so I was 36, I think, yeah, no, 35. I can't remember. I can't. I'm so tired, so tired. Was I 36? Yeah, because Harrison was almost three. Yeah, yeah. Thank you, natalie.

Speaker 2: 26:08

I already know you're Okay cool.

Speaker 3: 26:12

Yeah, I'm getting old but anyway. So they wanted me to have the induction at 39 weeks. They just personally thought that at over 35, they see better outcomes and again, I'm sure there's an argument for that. Was that Interesting, yeah, but I think that this is another opportunity to say Do your research, you know and trust your gut. And guys, I was okay with it because this wasn't my first rodeo you know, and I knew that an induction had gone well for me and I wanted to have fricking be done. Being pregnant.

Speaker 2: 27:02

Like I was At the end of the summer.

Speaker 3: 27:04

Yeah, during, yes, exactly August 2020. So we get there. My mom came up. She had like quarantine so that no one got COVID Cause. That was actually the fear. Like you had to get tested to go into the hospital and you don't want your husband to not be allowed in. He went to none of my well, once, once, I guess, once April came around or something. Yeah, he didn't go to my appointments. That was my biggest Giving birth alone.

Speaker 2: 27:33

Oh my gosh yeah, yeah, that's just terrible.

Speaker 3: 27:37

For sure, and I was part of this Facebook group that originated like in April of 2020. And I mean that did happen. Like there were people on that group that were from New York and, yeah, I mean devastating, devastating, so yeah, like that was. It was a very unsettling time, you know, uncertain for everyone, but yeah, so my mom came up and it did all turn out fine.

Speaker 3: 28:04

Obviously, I did not have COVID Checked in. I was not like I think I was like dilated a centimeter or something, this. So, with Halle, I did not keep notes, I barely had any belly pictures and I know that that's like very typical of subsequent pregnancies, but it also had something to do with COVID and just trying to survive and yeah. So I don't remember if I was a face, but if I was, it was not a lot. They did not break my water at this time. They gave me whatever the most common medication is to soften your stroke, probably, yeah, and I feel like it worked fine, like I didn't have any negative. Nothing negative happened. It just I was impatient, like I had gone from Harrison's birth to this, and I remember my mom was texting me like you know how's it going? Like, how much longer do you think it's gonna be Like?

Speaker 1: 28:58

oh my gosh, don't rush with mother.

Speaker 3: 29:00

Like and I know, I mean I get it. I wanted to know too, but I was like this may be longer than Harrison. I was definitely getting that vibe.

Speaker 2: 29:10

So was it that, like you, went in both times, the first two ages broke your heart?

Speaker 3: 29:16

Yeah, it was weird.

Speaker 3: 29:18

Yeah, I know, and I found it to be weird that they didn't this time. But it wasn't. It was not like I just yes, I was just, and I think that, by the way, that had a lot to do with the Potosin bean increased. I mean, once you do break someone's water, you do have, I think, 48 hours, is that right? I mean the time starts ticking, but it didn't warrant ratcheting up as quickly as that. They're stead. But yeah, natalie, that's a good point. Like it doesn't usually happen, I don't think, but that was my previous two experiences. So it was weird to like lay there, I read, I talked to Heath. He slept a little bit, which he always does during the beginning to my labor. He says it's so tiring for him and he is being sarcastic when he says that.

Speaker 3: 30:13

So yeah, finally they. You know they checked on me and I guess after. So I got there. It took forever. So I want to say they didn't even start the medicine until eight nine am something like that, and Hallie was born at almost 6 pm. So what is that? Like three, like nine-ish hours at least. So I think after several hours they finally started me on Potosin. And that took a while too, from then finally to get to point where they broke my water and then things really picked up and I think that's at the point where I got the epidural and again I went into it knowing I was going to get the epidural and, yeah, I had a positive experience within 45 minutes after getting the epidural. I swear, for me it relaxes, like you know, yeah, but I think there's so much, especially with like a first pregnancy, so much value in gravity, obviously, and letting things progress and feeling it. If that's what you want to feel, you know, if you want to experience it, I am so grateful I did that. Like everything worked out really well for me.

Speaker 2: 31:27

Hey Zelda.

Speaker 1: 31:28

Zelda, you making it up here.

Speaker 3: 31:30

I love it. I feel like we should tell the viewers who Zelda is. Have we said her name yet Maybe I did earlier. Zelda's the new pop.

Speaker 2: 31:41

Our new dog our new mascot Golden Hour. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 31:45

She's so sweet, but she just woke up from a nap, so yeah, but yeah, so the epidural worked well for me. But because labor progressed so quickly, like I think I was at like a four or a five at most when I got the epidural, I mean I was at a 10 within 45 minutes and so I thought the epidural wasn't working, not because I wasn't so much pain, but it was discomfort, you know, it was the pressure and it was because she was coming so quickly. And so that's when I got excited. I was like, see once, my you know what breaks. I guess I guess that's how my body it's go time. Yeah, it's go time For me at least. But yeah, what else was I gonna tell you guys? Like it was really cool, because the resident at this is a teaching hospital, I think is what you would call it the resident OBGYN who helped mine deliver Halle. Her name was Halle, I know it was sweet, it was sweet and thank you. So, yeah, all ages, if you haven't caught on yet.

Speaker 3: 32:52

And Heath, this is my husband, so I get called Heather sometimes, but I'm Um, but I got to. So Harlow's birth, I mean, she's my first, like that's, that's always something so, so special. And with Harrison, it was so awesome that he just came out so easily, so quickly. It's such a cool story. And then to see Heath be so elated about having a son and then not to have a NICU stay, like it was just very, that was really special. And then with Halle, what's really special in my mind is Heath recorded the whole thing. I never won it, like with Harlow, I was like don't look, and he acted like he wasn't, but he later told me he did watch it, um, which like horrified me at the time. With Harrison, I don't know, we just didn't have, we didn't have a doula there, you know. So we don't have as many videos, even after the fact.

Speaker 3: 33:52

But with Halle, um, she loves watching her. It's, it's so embarrassing. We'll be places. She'll be like I want to watch my Halle be born, my Halle be born video, my Halle be born video, and we'll be sitting places and I'm like we cannot watch this year. Like, no, halle, uh, it's so funny, um, but I pull her out like the doctor says grab her, catherine, grab her. And I never it's like that, like the Kardashian again, probably before your time where she pulls out one of her. Yeah, and so I was like, oh my gosh, I got to do Um and yeah, like the, the, the rest of it was pretty uneventful the hospital stay.

Speaker 3: 34:37

They did have to prick her because I had. They had a prick her like every I don't know few hours to check her blood sugar because I had failed my um, sorry, my first. No, I know the initial um gestational diabetes test, but we thought it was a fluke because I had been really stressed going into it and I had had a salad that had dressing on it. I didn't need like sugar. I didn't even think about that Um and I had been monitoring my, my numbers myself. I would prick my finger.

Speaker 3: 35:07

So I I actually refused to have the three hour. I didn't like adamantly refuse. I was like I really don't want to have the three hour test. I obviously some people need to um and they should, they should, they should do that, but it's really hard on your body.

Speaker 3: 35:21

I think is what I've heard and I just all things pointed to like I talked it through with my doctor and it was not going to be likely a problem, but they still at the hospital pricked her like over and over again. So that was really sad, um, and then no one came to visit, which was actually somewhat nice, um, but because of COVID they couldn't, you know. Yeah, you get, you get the nap. I actually, for anyone listening who's never had a baby before, um, one piece of advice would be tell nurses, nicely, and doctors, to please let you have a nap during a certain time, like they come in so much, and some of it is necessary, for sure, but not all of it is, and you know it takes a little bit of getting to know, like this was my third baby by the by the time I said this, but I was like I mean, they were coming in for every little thing.

Speaker 1: 36:16

They don't coordinate Like.

Speaker 3: 36:18

Well, that's the thing, Well, that's the thing For your baby in the next time for you, yes, so they put a note on and then they did. They did coordinate better, liz, because they were like, oh, let's come in in a couple hours. So, yeah, that was good. Um, and then, yeah, postpartum.

Speaker 1: 36:31

I mean, it was sorry did you stay the two nights with you, so it's funny.

Speaker 3: 36:36

I did, but I I didn't want to for only one reason, which was COVID, because again, I was still kind of crazy about it. I didn't want to like unnecessarily risk exposure. But I had to, liz, because she was born at 6pm, so you had to stay that night and they wouldn't let me out. Why did I have to? I forget the details, but I think it was like oh, I know, I think they wanted her to have been there 24 hours and by that point it was going to be like, by the time I got checked out that next night, like 7, 8pm, and so I guess I didn't have to, but I felt like I should. Yeah, I was the right decision. Yeah, maybe that was it too. Isn't it funny how much you forget, really. I don't. I don't remember a lot of the details. I wish I would have written down more from her from her birth.

Speaker 2: 37:25

Um, sorry, sorry, hallie, that's right, um, and you slept in to tear a few weeks.

Speaker 3: 37:31

Well, and she loves being the baby. I mean, she loves it. She eats it up. Um, she's amazing.

Speaker 3: 37:38

So yeah, like postpartum it was, it was definitely different, for obvious reasons the pandemic. We had kids and no nanny. We had kids home and no nanny and no preschool for the first three weeks and then they started had a private preschool because I'm like I mean that had been the plan for a while but it just hadn't opened yet and so that was good. I mean, I just, I think they expected the worst, you guys, and then hope for the best. Heath was home more because of COVID, like he didn't have to go in every day, so that helped. I mean we like for six months he and I like helped take her care of Hallie and worked, which didn't, you know, go well, but it, it, we managed.

Speaker 3: 38:17

And then I hired someone to drive our kids to school and to do my laundry and, um, there were some breakdowns there were. The first few months were manageable for the most part because we weren't going anywhere. We didn't have the stress of like getting three kids out the door because we didn't have activities. There was nothing going on in St Louis. I think that actually it's really sad I mean, it was still 2020, but like kids had nothing to do, like we didn't even have playgrounds open forever, um, but for me it worked out well in the in the sense that I didn't have the pressure to go anywhere. I would take Hallie with me to pick the kids up from school, and that was enough. You know, um, yeah, so, and that should be my advice for for some, um, that can do it If you can.

Speaker 3: 39:09

Obviously, not everyone can hire help. If you can hire help to fold your laundry, do it. It's amazing, outsourced. But if you, yes, but it doesn't. But, but you can also get creative. You know, if you can't afford it, um, there are, there are ways that you re. Well, it's not even getting creative. Right, it's accepting help and it is leaning into any community that you do have and I accepted.

Speaker 3: 39:43

You know meals from people that I did not know at my church at all and I pay it forward. I, I try to like, I will make a meal for, well, it's not making really, but it's buying or ordering. It still counts. Um, for you know people that I don't, that are not my best friends, you know. I mean, they're not just like anyone off the street. But I, I will do that because I, I know you have to have help. So that would definitely be part of of what I would would say to people.

Speaker 3: 40:16

And yeah, and just like you know finding your way, like, try to keep your eyes open, like, keep trying to find solutions. Facebook groups, um doulas, breastfeeding groups to the extent that you know, hospitals have them Um, and, like you know, for those going through infertility as well, like, again, try to reach out to those who can support you, who know what you're going through. And it's the same with postpartum. Um, don't be like I am, I am very controlling, so I get the not even wanting people in your house, like that can be awkward, but know your limitations, know yourself and give yourself grace. Um, and nothing, nothing stays the same, which is crazy. You know Little, little little season of life, and we know this, we know this. But it does seem, when you're sleep deprived especially, it does seem like a revelation sometimes when you think of it that way.

Speaker 2: 41:23

When you're up in the middle of the night and that's your whole life. It is Right then.

Speaker 3: 41:29

And you know your life is the only life you have to live, and so I'm a big Brene Brown fan too, and you know she's all about. Oh, yeah, she's all about. You know I don't know how best she would describe it and I don't have her words and I'm not articulate like she is but you have to. You do have to kind of lean into whatever you're feeling, or you can't be there for others. You know you have to. She would never say feel sorry for yourself, it's not that, but it's. You can be upset. This is hard, while also knowing that it's not forever.

Speaker 3: 42:09

And something that helped me too was channeling like people who have had really, really, really trying situations, like a mom who is traveling from, you know, ecuador to the United States with a baby because she's escaping or horrendous circumstances and maybe had to take like a train, like you know, be on the top of a train with a little kid. I can do this. I can sit here and do this for these two hours. I sometimes have to tell myself stuff like that because, again, I am a complainer and I am like you said, that's your life. When you're in the dark at 2 am, it is hard and I'm not trying to minimize that at all.

Speaker 2: 43:03

So yep, and you're still you're still in it, natalie.

Speaker 3: 43:08

You're not even quite to the one-year mark.

Speaker 2: 43:10

I know, sleep is a matter though Good, I do have a question that I've been wanting to ask for a while. How did you find other women to write into your book? Yeah, so that was.

Speaker 3: 43:20

That was a process. So the story behind it is my friend had been telling me for a long time my friend from high school you need, you need to write a book about your story. You need to write a book because I have used Instagram my personal page, not the one that you that you know about the past motherhood page, but my personal page to kind of amplify a voice for infertility and pregnancy loss and at a time where that was a little bit like because this is like 2015, 2016, right, and you know, that was when Instagram was really starting to become more of a thing and so she had been telling me that from my post. And finally, mother's Day, 2019, I she said that again and I was like because I posted something and I was like you know what the reason why I didn't want to do it before was because I don't think that my story, while it's exceptional to me, of course it's not exceptional to necessarily others, but there's power in numbers. So then that was the birth of me thinking about an anthology, which I didn't even know what an anthology was before that I just was googling.

Speaker 3: 44:34

I don't know what I was googling to find out what an anthology is but a collection of stories by different authors, and so what I did was I wrote my story first and then I started like telling people. I knew what I was doing to get the word out, but I knew I had to write my story first. And then I posted on a few Facebook pages that, like big Facebook pages that I am a part of, like maybe an embryo donation page or something like that and I got a few people that contacted me and I also reached out to a few people that I knew that had gone through it. So then, once I had a few stories that I had gone through and edited which was so time consuming and I had like it was a little more legitimate, so I wrote up such a lawyer thing to do like I wrote up, not like a lengthy contract, but something that like outlined the plan and like a letter to potential authors summarizing kind of what I thought I really should have meditated for a while.

Speaker 3: 45:40

I mean, it took at least six months for me to figure out what I was even going to. How am I going to like frame this, you know, to people and sell it, so to speak, and what is going to be the framework in terms of? You know, I ended up self-publishing but like that sort of thing and yeah, so it was like very piecemeal, like it was partly word of mouth. It was these strangers I didn't know through Facebook and then I reached out to and then I did end up hiring two editors through a website called I think it's Reade C, r-e-e-d-s-y, which was cool Like it was. I never knew. I mean, I had to do a lot of research because I did not know what I was doing and I talked to a few people that had done the self-publishing, had gone down that path. So, thanks, I'm glad it's out there, I'm glad it's out in the universe Like it was. It was a rewarding thing to do and, you know, once you put something out in print, and it's a vulnerable thing to do, of course, too, for all of these authors. I am so appreciative to them, but it's out there forever, which means that it could help someone in 20 years from now. I mean, maybe not, like it depends. It's definitely Some of it, though, could probably help.

Speaker 3: 47:13

I think a movement started for real, like when A movement and I'm specifically talking about being vocal about infertility and pregnancy loss and you know, big little feelings as part of it, but it started before that, even and I do want to believe that I'm a tiny part of that in this community, meaning St Louis Like obviously people don't know me, like nationally oh my goodness, I'm not that conceited, but I do. I was always very vocal about my struggles once I got pregnant with Harlow I was not prior to that, I couldn't be and so for people to be, you know, sharing what they're going through while they're going through it, that is even more courageous to me. I just couldn't do it. So for a lot of reasons. But, yeah, and like, you can say so many bad things about social media and anyone can I mean we can as a society. There are a lot of problems with it, but there's a. It's a powerful platform and it can be a powerful platform in the best of ways you know.

Speaker 2: 48:31

Sure so early yeah.

Speaker 1: 48:34

Yeah when, yeah, yeah when I was, though it was thick of postpartum it was bad.

Speaker 2: 48:42

Yeah, like too much.

Speaker 1: 48:44

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 48:45

You know yeah.

Speaker 1: 48:47

Once I like honed in on, like exactly what I was looking for and I curated my like speed.

Speaker 3: 48:54

I love that you're saying this. No, that's important, liz, and because it is, it's such you're bombarded. You know, yeah, it's so much Like in postpartum like you're sometimes scrolling at 2am too, you know, like when you were just like zombie and you're not even processing it, and it's just too much. I didn't even talk about breastfeeding journey at all, really, but did come from like the people who I was surrounding myself with and they were, they were great too. Like I said, I love my doula and my chiropractor, my acupuncturist. But you just have to take in the information and, yeah, curate it and you know yourself and you, you have to, at some point, be like there was no other reality than my own, because it's so hard to even figure out, like what is like. I don't want to say true or not, because it's it's not that exactly, but it is find out what your truth is with respect to what you should, how you should feed your child or you know, like, get the information, but then don't just don't just assume that one group of people is saying exactly the right thing for you.

Speaker 3: 50:17

But yeah, I did breastfeed all three kids, by the way, and that was an awesome experience I'm so grateful for.

Speaker 3: 50:23

But I finally, thankfully, when Harlow was seven months, was like this is insane, like she's not going to get enough, like cause my supply dropped a lot around the six month mark with all three of my kids, if I do not supplement with formula, and that was so liberating. I was so hard on myself up until that point and I feel like we've kind of gotten away from that a little bit, meaning the shame associated with, excuse me, formula. Like you know, it's gone back and forth throughout the years, like breastfeeding wasn't even like in the 80s. I feel like a lot of my friend's parents, it wasn't, it wasn't really even a thing. My mom did, but a lot of women didn't. You know, it's just gone back and forth, back and forth and that is best. And I, I didn't breastfeed as long with Hallie and Harrison because it was fricking impossible, because they yes, I could, I just, and they liked bottles, like a lot, and so that really worked. But the bottles it's like all coming back to me.

Speaker 2: 51:24

Natalie's shaking her head yes, I don't know if you've listened to my story. Yeah, I'm so sorry. I am so happy to be on the other. Yes, yes, you can go into that. Off the radio, we'll have a radio. So I heard me talk about this and complain, and it was especially like you know well, I'm just glad that you guys are using the space to tell your stories.

Speaker 3: 51:59

Let other people tell theirs, because you never know, like if one person listening is positively impacted. That's something you know not alone.

Speaker 2: 52:11

I hope that's our right. Well, I think that's a good segue to us. Thank you so much for coming on.

Speaker 3: 52:17

Oh, thanks for having me.

Speaker 2: 52:18

You're famous in my ceiling.

Speaker 3: 52:20

Oh, thank you.

Speaker 2: 52:22

That's really really nice.

Speaker 1: 52:23

How can people find you yeah?

Speaker 3: 52:25

That's nice of you to ask. So paths to motherhood is the Instagram page that Natalie is talking about, and that's probably the easiest way. But you know, if you Google Catherine Oots UTZ that's my maiden name, hunter you can find me, because lawyers are easy and then, but I would say that the paths to motherhood is probably the easiest because I have a link to a website and an email and I welcome, you know, messages, emails, all of that, because I don't know, I feel like connecting with people is truly how we, how we get through this.

Speaker 2: 53:07

Get through it all Thanks.

Speaker 3: 53:10

Love it. So sweet, I love it.

Speaker 2: 53:16

Yeah, thank you so much for sharing your story. You are welcome. Yeah, great, great, great start. Great, start back, yeah.

Speaker 3: 53:26

Well, thanks guys, and cheers to bedtime.

Speaker 1: 53:30

Thank you for joining us on this episode of the Golden Hour Birth podcast. We hope you've enjoyed our discussion and found it insightful and beneficial. Remember, the Golden Hour Birth podcast is made possible by the support of listeners like you. If you appreciate the content we bring you each week, consider leaving us a review on your favorite podcast platform or sharing the show with your friends and family. Your support helps us reach more people and continue creating valuable episodes. If you have any questions, suggestions or topics you'd like us to cover in future episodes, we'd love to hear from you. You can reach us on our website, www. Goldenhourbirth podcast, or connect with us on social media. We value your feedback and want to make sure that we're delivering the content you want to hear. Before we sign off, we'd like to express our gratitude to our incredible guests who joined us today. We are honored that they trust us enough to be so open and vulnerable. We're grateful for their time and willingness to share their stories with us.

Speaker 1: 54:32

If you're interested in taking the conversation further with us, join us on our Facebook group, the Golden Hour Birth Circle. We'll be back next week with another exciting episode, so be sure to tune in. Until then, stay golden and remember to take care of yourself. We'll catch you on the next episode of the Golden Hour Birth podcast. Bye.