Rachel: Fighting for the Redemptive VBAC After Two Cesareans, Doula Advocacy, and Finding Empowerment in Birth Autonomy

In this empowering episode, Rachel shares her journey to a redemptive VBAC (vaginal birth after cesarean) after two previous C-sections. Despite discouragement from providers, Rachel persevered to find a doctor and hospital supportive of her goal. She details the research she did to advocate for herself, including evaluating VBAC success rates and interviewing doctors.

After achieving her desired birth, Rachel went on to doula training, inspired to help other women in their birth journeys. Rachel provides insight into navigating unsupportive providers, honoring your birthing decisions amidst judgment, and the euphoria of achieving the birth you desire. Her story will inspire you to stand up for your autonomy and follow your intuition when it comes to birth plans. Tune in for an uplifting perspective on overcoming obstacles to the birthing experience you envision.

Connect with Rachel on Instagram here!

We extend our deepest gratitude to this episode's sponsor, Ergobaby. Their dedication to enhancing the parenting experience through ergonomic, thoughtful designs makes them the ultimate companion. Thank you, Ergobaby, for supporting us and making this empowering episode possible. Visit their website to explore their innovative baby carriers, strollers, swaddlers and more that blend style, comfort and functionality. Ergobaby's sponsorship allows us to continue creating meaningful content for parents. Discover the perfect products to bring joy to your parenting journey today on their website here!

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Have you ever felt judged or pressured into a certain birth plan that didn't feel right for you? In this episode of the Golden Hour Birth Podcast, rachel shares her inspiring journey, advocating for the birth she wanted after two previous C-sections. She asks the powerful question why should any woman have to fight so hard for autonomy over her own body and birthing choices? Listen in as Rachel details her perseverance, seeking a V-BAC-friendly provider in hospital, despite discouragement, and the incredible feeling of empowerment from achieving the redemptive birth she desired. Her story will make you consider how can we better support women making informed decisions about their births, free from stigma and judgment. Hey there, incredible listeners. Before we dive into Rachel's story, I want to take a moment to talk about something really special Ergo Baby.

Speaker 1: 0:55

Motherhood isn't just about the baby. It's about you, the woman, bringing life into this world. And when you're doing something that important, a lot of it comes down to feeling confident about being a good mom, and that's where Ergo Baby steps in. Instead of creating things to add a long list of baby things, ergo Baby makes products for the mothers who are using them the sensation of holding a newborn baby for the first time, bundling baby up into their crib for the night ahead that first visit to the in-laws. With Ergo Baby, it's not just about functionality Using their products make you feel like the amazing caring mom you are. From baby carriers to high chairs, each Ergo Baby product is designed to embrace your nurturing side and enhance your motherhood journey. What I love most about Ergo Baby is their products are more than just items. They're a reminder that you're doing an incredible job. So, to all the women out there listening, if you're looking for products that resonate with your nurturing spirit, check out Ergo Baby, because motherhood is about you too. All right, let's dive into today's story. Get ready to be inspired, empowered and reminded that you're never alone in this journey.

Speaker 1: 2:02

The Golden Hour Birth Podcast A podcast about real birth stories and creating connections through our shared experiences. Childbirth isn't just about the child. It's about the person who gave birth, their lives, their wisdom and their empowerment. We're Liz and Natalie, the Golden Hour Birth Podcast, and we're here to laugh with you, cry with you and hold space for you. Welcome to the Golden Hour Birth Podcast. I am your co-host, liz, I'm your co-host, natalie, and tonight we have Rachel from New York joining us. Thanks so much for coming on tonight, rachel.

Speaker 2: 2:38

Thank you for having me, ladies.

Speaker 1: 2:39

It's my pleasure, so if you want to tell listeners about you and your family. I give a say Liz and Rachel met at Fivo, mia Dula Training. Yeah, I love that we're having you on as a fellow Dula.

Speaker 2: 2:59

I'm so excited to be here.

Speaker 1: 3:02

So if you want to go ahead and tell listeners about you and your family, Sure.

Speaker 2: 3:06

So my name is Rachel Morise, I am a white and I have three amazing high-energy boys 11, 8, and soon-to-be 2. I am a maternal health junkie. I love all things maternal health I always have but for me, just going through my birth experience really led me to this point. It was just like a buildup, a slow burn, from my first birth experience up until my last one, where I really realized, like this is my niche, like this is my happy place and I want to do all things pertaining to maternal health.

Speaker 1: 3:46

I love that. I feel that, too, you want to share a little bit about when your partner found out you were pregnant with your first then what that pregnancy was like.

Speaker 2: 3:58

Sure. So my husband and I, when I found out, when I was pregnant with my first son you know pretty textbook pregnancy and avaniate complications. Everything went well. Admittedly, I didn't really know much about birth or pregnancy. I kind of was one of those go with the flow, whatever my doctor said is what it was. And pregnancy was great. You know, I felt great.

Speaker 2: 4:25

I worked up until, I think, two weeks before I went into labor and then, when I went on maternity leave, I just remember, oh, I should walk. You know they say that's good for you, know, getting your body ready. So I remember walking every day on the track and my water broke really early in the morning, a day before my due date actually, and I freaked out. It was like all I can remember thinking to myself is I don't know much, but I know I don't want to have a C-section, right? So here I am. It's like five in the morning my water breaks. I call my provider. He's like you know, just come to the hospital. I call my husband. He was getting off of a night shift, so he's like I'm leaving work, I'll meet you at the hospital. My mother drove me to the hospital and I found out I was only like one centimeter dialled, like I hadn't even reached far. So immediately, you know, they get me situated, I'm admitted, and they start offering me like an epidural. I probably was in the hospital for all of 45 minutes and they're like, oh, are you still in page? And I was like, yeah, I'm feeling cramps. You know, they weren't. In hindsight again, they weren't bad, but again the fear just, I'm having this baby. This is my first baby. I'm like you know, they're significant. And then I started vomiting through abuse, contraction. So she's like let's get you situated, let's get you the epidural. They're getting me the epidural. But then they also said that my blood pressure was dropping. So now they're giving me things because my blood pressure going too low and within, like I would say, a three-hour time span, I just received so many interventions, but I don't remember being told what these interventions are or what the risks were, or for me to even make a decision. It was like, you know what, we're going to offer you this, ok, we're going to give you that, ok. And so that pretty much was the beginning of that labor experience, obviously, with me getting the epidural. I'm now better ridden.

Speaker 2: 6:27

I wasn't able to ambulate during that labor and after about 12, 13 hours my labor stalled. I had only reached about three centimeters and I developed a fever. Once I developed the fever and I had no clue. I was kind of in and out. I was so drowsy. I just remember my provider coming into the room and saying he's like hovering over me and I'm like. It felt like a dream because like I could see him. But it was like hazy and he's just like all right, rachel, we're gonna take you into the OR, okay, because we just gave you some medication. Your fever hasn't gone down. Mind you, I had no clue. I even had a fever to begin with. And he's like but we have to take you in. And I hear my mother in the background saying she's okay, right, she's okay, she's gonna be fine, she's gonna be fine. He's like she's gonna be fine, but we have to take her into the or.

Speaker 2: 7:19

Now, my fever at that point was about 104, so they rushed me into the OR. I just remember crying because at that point it was just like what's happening. And the nurse who prepped me, she just rubbed my back and she was like I'm so sorry, but you're gonna be okay. They got me ready for my C-section and it just felt surreal because again I just felt like all these things were being done to me but no one was really addressing me and the whole situation and my husband of course he was nervous but he couldn't let me know that he was nervous. And then at one point during my C-section I remember saying I can't breathe and the anesthesia dialysis was just very like not too long, like oh, you'll be fine, we throw an oxygen mask on, and my husband actually took a picture because I had a tear like falling down my cheek and he was like in that moment he got so scared because he was not sure what was gonna ask, like I was like gasping and no one was really attending to me and that was at the moment that they were pulling my son out.

Speaker 2: 8:20

So he was like here I am watching you, like gasping for air, and at the same time our first son is being born and I just was so confused like I didn't know what to like prioritize, so, needless to say, very traumatic. I didn't get skin to skin, I didn't get to hold my baby, I was kind of rolled into recovery by myself for an hour and I harbored so much like guilt and shame from that birth experience that I didn't even realize I was holding on to like I Didn't feel that innate bond with my first son. I felt like I failed and I couldn't really express that to anyone at the time, like I was just holding it in. And that first two to three months after giving birth was really hard on me because I Now I'm dealing with a baby that's like call it me and like I'm dealing with my own feelings and the healing from a C Section. And you know we were admitted for five days because we both were on antibiotics Because of the infection that they found out from my placenta, from being checked too many times I had too many cervical checks and again the cascade of interventions that I had no clue about With that first birth experience.

Speaker 2: 9:33

Fast forward with my second son. It was pretty textbook, you know. Oh, you had a C-section, you're gonna have another C-section. I remember Asking once I didn't know, of a V-back. I didn't know a lot but I asked if I could have one. No, you're not a good canvate. You're probably one of those women that would have died in childbirth.

Speaker 2: 9:52

You know, failure to progress that's what I was told and you know you had failure, failure to progress, don't worry about it, just just have a C-section. It's just easier. You have nothing approved. And I listened. I kind of was just like okay, that's what it is, so that's what I'm gonna do. You have nothing to prove, you've had nothing to prove, you're fine, just have another C-section. And so there pretty much was no conversation. It was you're gonna have a C-section, you're gonna schedule it. And I agree. I cried. I again I felt like a failure and I just couldn't express it. None of my friends had had C-sections.

Speaker 2: 10:33

At this point I was like a unicorn and I'm watching everyone have these amazing birth experience and again, like it's not that the C-section is bad right, like we understand that there are situations where they're absolutely necessary. But I was being told what to do, I wasn't given an opportunity to make a choice and I'm also Navigating things that happen that could have gone differently. But again, my lack of education at that time Kind of feared things a certain way. And so, fast forward, I have my second son. That C-section went well, was better than the first. I Recovered I you know my biggest issue was navigating, having a toddler and recovering from C-section, but you know, no complications or anything like that.

Speaker 2: 11:20

And then I decided to go back to school for my master's in health administration and my capstone project was focused on black women at C-section rates. And so we know that when it comes to maternal health, black women have the worst outcomes across all ethnic groups. And I, just in that moment, as I'm like learning all these things about the health care disparities and then focusing on C-sections and at the time, the C-section rates for black women were around 35%. For white women they're around 30%. The World Health Organization Recommends them to be 10 to 15. So in the US, over 30% of birds are C-sections. And I'm like, hello, and they're not even medically necessary. Like what's happening here? Like why aren't we talking about this? And so here I am, figuring this out and I'm like you know what? I'm gonna advocate for something to change, like it was. In that moment, I'm like this is it, I? This cannot be, and that's who.

Speaker 2: 12:23

Long after I graduated, actually a week after I graduated, we entered into the lockdown pandemic. So I graduated on March 7, march 13th, the world shut down and I was like, okay, well, there goes me getting on my soapbox and telling the world hey, we have to change maternal health, um, and then, during the tail end of the pandemic, I found out I was pregnant. And Now I'm like I can't unknow what. I know, like I have all this information. I felt so empowered. I'm like, wow, like I was told this, like this was the exact same script that was sold to me.

Speaker 2: 13:02

And so I went in same provider with the first two and I said, hey, you know, I want to, I want to toll act, a trial of labor after cesarean. And he was like no, and I said, excuse me, he's like you're not a good candidate. And I said, well, you said the same thing to me after I had my, you know, when I was pregnant with my second son. But there are so many things that have G, and I'm like, well, why? And he was like well, admittedly, I don't know what current research shows, but I trust my skill set as a surgeon. I will never forget that conversation because that was it for me You're my OB and good to leave me. You trust your skill set as a surgeon, that I'm not a zipper, like we're not like what. So, right there, I said, okay, I know that I was in a conversation worth fighting over and in the past, like recalling other conversations we had had before. They were even important to remember.

Speaker 2: 14:07

You know, he always talked about V-BACs and he was not a fan of them. He didn't understand why a woman would want to put herself through that. He just, you know, it's just not worth the risk and all that stuff and all the fear mongering. So I walked out of that doctor's office and I cried a liver and I graved the relationship that I thought I had because he was my provider for a really long time and he is a great doctor. It's just I outgrew him. We were no longer on the same path. He was very traditional in his mindset and I was not, and so I walked out of there and I decided that I was gonna have this V-BAC after to see section here, I am this black woman who's 36 years old at the time and I'm already like, wow, rach, this is really what you wanna do. The obstacles are stacked against you. I mean, on paper, like you, are not a cold and cold good candidate.

Speaker 2: 14:59

So I did my research. I found another provider and you know I didn't wanna go into there like leading with what I wanted. I just wanted to see what she would say. And she was just like, you know, tell me your history, what were your birth experiences? Like I shared that with her and she was like, well, you know, like I don't even understand why you had the second C-section, and she just really empowered and encouraged me. She's like, let's see how things go, but everything looks great. You don't have any health conditions. I'm, you know, putting you on the track so that you can have a TOLAC, and that was that. I'm like elated. I'm like, oh my gosh, she gets me. Everything was going great. I now decided to hire a doula. I'm doing all the things prenatal yoga, all the holistic, like I'm like on top of it.

Speaker 2: 15:50

And then, when I got to be about like 21, 22 weeks, I had like a little health scare where I was just experiencing like a cramping, like sensation. I got really nervous, called my provider. She was like, well, you know, my office is pretty busy. I don't think I can see you. If it gets bad, you need to go to the ER. So I ended up going to the ER after hours of just this going on and I'm like it doesn't make sense, like I don't. I don't know what this pain is. They did all these tests, they couldn't find anything and again, she couldn't really give me any answers. I did my own research and I believe that it was like C-section scar pain, just from like my uterus stretching and just the old scars. But again, this was me doing my own research and everything that I read was in alignment with what I was feeling.

Speaker 2: 16:39

So my next appointment I go in there and I'm thinking that she's gonna address this like, hey, how are you feeling? I know you called the office. She says nothing about my trip to the hospital. Her back is turning to me and she's like oh, how are you? And I'm talking and talking and she's like, oh, how? And I see her flipping through and she turns back around and she goes so are you still trying for the V-Bag? And I'm like totally thrown off. Because I'm like, wait, here I am talking about like this trauma that I just experienced with the C-section scar pain. And I'm like, yeah, and she's like, okay, well, don't get any more weight, because I wouldn't want to be able to like, offer you, not be able to offer you a total. Now, ladies, at this point I had only gained nine pounds. That didn't even matter. The list just said it out I had only gained nine pounds. I'm about 24, 25 weeks and here she is telling me don't gain any more weight because I wouldn't want to not offer you a total.

Speaker 1: 17:44

That's fine. That's like up to your body and your baby and oh my God.

Speaker 2: 17:50

And she's like you know, because you're aged and you know as a black woman, and the V-Bag calculator and I have just like this is I'm being punked. Like there's no way. Like this is really the narrative. Like I'm like how do you? This is what they talk about when they show pretty much all disparities, because the thing is, you're using something that studies have showed is not even accurate number one. But you're not even looking at me as an individual person. Like you're literally standardizing my care and all of a sudden, the whole conversation we had when I first started coming to you is out the window. Like now it's your position in the hospital and what you're trying to offer me, and like you said, as if it's you that's having this birth. And so I said okay, I walked out the hospital, I called my doula. I was hysterical and my doula said you know, I didn't want to hurt her words where I didn't want to scare you. She was like I don't want you to take this personal.

Speaker 2: 18:53

I've had other clients that have had her as a provider. The way thing is not personal to you. You're not overweight, there's nothing wrong with you, but she does tend to fear monger with weight, especially for her V-Bag patients. So you have two options. If you want to stay with her, I will fight with you, I will advocate for you. That is your choice. But if you want to leave, you can leave and I'm like but I'm almost 30. Like, I'm in my third trimester, I'm getting there and she's like and that's okay. She was like the provider works for you. You can fire them. That was like. That was it. I said you know what? You're right, I can. Why do I have to stay here? Like, why do I have to take you humiliating me and shaming me when you have? No, you're not in charge of what happens, like the course of this pregnancy or anything else. So back to square one.

Speaker 2: 19:45

I stopped going to that provider and I did some research. My doula helped me look up a list of physicians that were VBAC friendly and had great success rates with VBACs. I did some more research on hospitals because I wanted to make sure it was a marriage, not just the provider being on board that the facility was also one that had great VBAC rates. One of the things that I can say is, at that point it dawned on me like this is the hardest thing I've ever done. I was so emotional I'm like I shouldn't have to go through this. This is unfair that I'm like going to court having to prove my case why I deserve to try, as if I don't have a whole bunch of other things that I should be worried about, you know. But I also realized like the experience and the education that I had with each provider and everything I knew just kind of like fortified me to keep going, and so I finally found a third provider.

Speaker 2: 20:43

I went in there like listen, let's cut to the chase. This is what I've been through so far. This is what I want. This is what I'm not tolerating. This is going to be an issue Like all of a sudden. It was like you know what, let's cut to the chase here. I'm not going to do this anymore. I'm like 31 weeks pregnant. Are you on?

Speaker 2: 20:59

or are you not on. And so you know that provider. He was just like those are not anything that I would ever have an issue with for my patients. And he was like you're fine, and again, obviously I'm not God, I can't dictate, like, how it's going to rest, but I would not switch up one. You like we're going to go this and take it to the end. And he was true to his word. I, you know, being a woman of faith for me, like I just knew, like I knew that God was going to carry me through this pregnancy and this labor and delivery, and I trusted in that. And I had my VBAC.

Speaker 2: 21:36

After two C-sections, I was able to labor at home for a few hours. I remember telling my daughter I don't want my water to break, because that's what happened with my first son. And guess what? My water broke and I was just theoretical and she was like look at me, it's not the thing, it's done a great thing. And I lay around at home for maybe like five or six hours before I decided, you know what I feel more comfortable going into the hospital at that point. And I went in and I thought I was like five, six centimeters long because my contractions were super close and super intense and I was only a centimeter and a half and I'm like this is my state travel. This is not happening.

Speaker 2: 22:17

And you know, again, when we talk about like birth being like a physiological process, that was it because I left my comfort zone being home to go into a hospital and the moment I walked in, the questions being triaged, like I think I started to get into my head and everything slowed down. The contractions even slowed down and I did start to get nervous, like did I fight for all of this to get here and fail, like how is this going to pan out? But again, having my doula was everything, because she was in the trenches with me, like literally in the trenches, and every time I doubted myself she was like you're further than you were with your first. Remember, you said you never knew what it felt like to go through this, like you're going through it. Remember when you said she just reminded me of my why and I labored and labored and labored and finally I said I'm tired. I'm tired, like I feel, like I'm fighting and I decided to get an epidural. After 15 hours of labor, I got the epidural, I got the pitocin and my body relaxed, I was able to sleep and I woke up and I was at five centimeters and then I was at seven and then I was at 10.

Speaker 2: 23:28

And it was, I did it Like I really did it, and that was like the most amazing feeling in the world, because you don't realize how much you hold onto people's words and what they say about you and your body, the woman, and in that moment I'm like I'm not broken, like I remember saying that a lot, like I'm not broken and the release of that was just everything.

Speaker 2: 23:51

I'm like how many women hold onto this pain and this fear of judgment because their birth didn't go as they assume, whether it was a C-section or a vaginal birth or you know a situation where maybe they wanted it to be unmedicated, but it was whatever it is Like we let other people dictate what birth is going to look like for us and what they say about us, and I was holding onto a lot of that, and so for me, I always say my third birth experience was my redemptive birth, because I was able to let go of so much pain, and so I'm grateful. I still have moments where I think back and I'm like, wow, I really stood up for myself. I'm so proud I'm not having any more kids, but in that moment I'm like there's nothing that I can't do, like you cannot play in my face. Like I advocated for myself, I did all the things and it worked out. So that's, that's my story.

Speaker 1: 24:46

Well, I made the number of your doula. I mean, like I already saw her.

Speaker 2: 24:51

See, I tell her this Like I'm like you're stuck with me, I like I just love you for life, because she really she was so encouraging and she was actually the one that encouraged me. She was like you know everything that you did to prepare for this birth. She was like we need you in this space. Like you need to be a birth worker. We need more people like you. We need more black women in this space. You having a V back after two C sections. She's like hello, you live in New York. This is litigation central.

Speaker 2: 25:19

It is not easy to fight for that. It's here on Long Island specifically. And she was like and you did that unapologetically, with like no questions asked, like you forfeit and not that you should have to, but people need to know like it's possible. And so I said, okay, I'm going to be in the look because she was that amazing. I'm like if I'm could be anything like you, I'm going to go for it. So I love her Hannah is her name. Like, she is like the most amazing woman ever, like ever. I just adore her.

Speaker 1: 25:56

She sounds like this yeah. I'm going to have to go next to Lori oh she's like thank you, she really is.

Speaker 2: 26:06

She is. She's like stop giving me the granny. I didn't post this baby out. I'm like, no, but I don't think I would have been able to continue if it wasn't for you. So she's amazing.

Speaker 1: 26:18

Did you find B-Bomia?

Speaker 2: 26:25

So, funny enough, a friend of mine sent me a link and she was like hey, you know I came across on the Stola program. I thought of you because at that point everyone was just like you have to share your bird story. Tell me about your bird story. Like it was crazy how much positivity I got after having my third son and so me having different conversations and people saying you know what? You should really become a Dula, like I think it would be amazing in this space.

Speaker 2: 26:53

This particular friend reached out to me. She's like here's this way, there's a program that's about to start and I think that they're doing some scholarships too. So look into it, see if it's something that you'd be into. And so I looked into it and again, imposter syndrome, because I'm like could I really be a Dula? I don't know, and I got kids and wonder I have time. And my husband was like babe, you should totally do it. Like you are obsessed with this. This is like the perfect thing for you to do right now. And so I looked into it. I actually applied for one of their scholarships and I won. And so I got a partial scholarship and he was like that's it, that's the confirmation you needed. Like they believe you, like they believe in you, go for it. And so that was it. It was just a friend just thinking of me and me actually applying, and that was the end of that, or the beginning of that. I should say yeah.

Speaker 1: 27:49

That's awesome. I love that they do the scholarships and do so much for the community.

Speaker 2: 27:54

Absolutely. Yeah, they really really do. They really do. And I genuinely feel like it was like the perfect program for me, where I was because we got to interact with so many different people from all over the world, and it really wasn't a matter of like what you know already or like how educated you are in like birth space, and I love that, because I really was like, should I be here? But it didn't feel like that. I really did feel like a loving community of people that were just trying to do the same thing, so pretty dope.

Speaker 1: 28:27

I love the beginning of it. You flashed on there like where you are right now is where you're. Yes, definitely.

Speaker 2: 28:39

Because there were moments where I'm like, oh, I'm falling apart and I'm like, nope, where you are is exactly where you need to be, and I'm like I received that. Yeah, I do. It's intense Because it's like you know, it's real life and I think that's what people forget about. Like being a doula or in that capacity, when you're ready, have your own kids and your own family, it's like you want to honor showing up for the person you're supporting in the best way, but then, like, you have your own life going on and it just really made me appreciate, just like the value and worth of like what doulas really do.

Speaker 2: 29:17

Like we do not give this enough credit, because to be on call for a client to be in a hospital for you don't know how many hours it could be short, it could be long To do all the things throughout someone's like prenatal journey, all while you potentially have your own family. Like my mind was blown, like how my doula really supported me. Like she has three kids too, like she has a real like when I say real like she has a nine to five brick and mortar job as well In addition to being a doula and I was like and I never felt that from her I never felt like a burden or that she was too busy. And I'm like in that moment, as we're going through our doula training and then having the experience of supporting someone after, I'm like, no, we really need to like advocate for doulas to be covered by insurance and or that field to be highlighted so much more because, wow, it's intense.

Speaker 1: 30:18

Yeah, how are you kind of melding or meshing your your now doula training with what you study?

Speaker 2: 30:32

So it's funny because, like initially, I just didn't know how they were going to pair up. I'm like my master's is in health administration but I'm not in the hospital setting. I'm doing a stool training, like how is it going to work? I think I've just had opportunities to work with organizations that value my experience having the doula trading, because now they see the importance of doulas and how they can change outcomes, and so I actually had a meeting with a healthcare system that's based in New York and they're looking to implement in their maternal health department something where there is doula support for patients period and in New York they actually pass legislation to has doula support covered by Medicaid.

Speaker 2: 31:21

So there's like small changes that are happening and because I have like the healthcare background already in a hospital setting, I'm being asked to like enter into those spaces and offer my perspective on both sides, and so that is pretty interesting and hopefully, you know, we can like break down some of the barriers, because there are just so many things that do need to change in the healthcare space, but I don't even really think about it much. I just focus on just like honoring my patients the best way that I can, my clients rather, excuse me, because there's just so many different things that they come across and I'm just like, wow, like we really are failing. We have to do so much better. Like the conversations that I hear things are being said, it just makes me really sad, right. Like it's just like we are this amazing country and yet there's just like we're so behind in this space, like we're just really, really behind.

Speaker 2: 32:26

And I have friends who you know, like a friend of mine, her husband is in military and they're based in Germany right now and her experiences, night and day, night and day, and I'm just like, oh my gosh, not me having like birth and be, just because like hearing what she's, like, the opportunity, the resources that are afforded to her, I'm like, wow, that's beautiful and I wish that you know, everyone had access to that here. So, yeah, I'll let them just have these conversations and keep breaking out barriers, but it's tough.

Speaker 1: 33:01

Someone wanted to research, you know, if they were looking for a VBAC, how, like, what kind of research did you do on the doctors in the hospital?

Speaker 2: 33:13

So first I go, like there is a website and the name fails me right now, but it's kind of like it grades, like healthcare report or something I would have to fact check, but they pretty much give you like the grades of each hospital, right, and then you can look into specific departments and how these hospitals rate against other hospitals in the region. So I looked into that and then, like I would specifically go like VBAC success rates in this hospital, providers that specialize in this and from there I recall offices and literally request a consultation, like before I even decide, because I don't think people think to do that. Like you go into doctor's office thinking, oh, I'm making my first appointment with this provider, this is it. I literally took the posture on. No, I want to come in for a consultation. Like I want to sit down and talk to the provider first. I don't need you to touch me, poke me, do anything. I want to talk, I want to get a feel for your energy, I want to know, like when you're looking at me, like if what you're saying matches your body, attitude, and that made a huge difference, because I must have called three or four different. You know women's clinics to like think about providers and, interestingly enough, like I didn't even realize with my third pregnancy that this was the same, but there were so many providers that I was actually really excited about, but they worked in clinics where they rotated, so they may not be the provider that I got when I went into labor and I was like, yeah, I'm not interested in that, you know.

Speaker 2: 34:47

So I had to let those go and so it was just really just me being really diligent about speaking to people, googling, doing research, supplementing that with like evidence-based research, feedback links and like other medically sound resources that show that V-BACs are actually perfectly fine. Even with two C-sections like the rate or the risk of uterine rupture, the margin doesn't go up that much between one and two and all the criteria. And when I tell you, I felt like Duke E Houser, like I just became so obsessed with learning all the things so that when I went into these doctor's offices like I say, listen, so research shows. And once they heard me talking like that, they're like, oh well, we can't really just read her the script, because she actually knows the research and so like education everything, because the conversation changes so much when they realize that you're already coming into the conversation with like a foundation for what it means that you're asking for. And so that was everything.

Speaker 2: 36:03

And then I also watched a ton of positive birth stories. I was on YouTube I feel like whatever came out within a three-year radius of me having my third son, I saw it. My husband probably was able to like recite V-BAC stories in his sleep. My older kids were like, mommy, are you watching another V-BAC birth story? And I'm like, yes, I was like obsessed with just immersing myself in that world because I didn't know anyone personally that had had a V-BAC around me. So these became like my internet besties, just flooding myself with that positivity to know that like this is absolutely normal and it can happen. And that really helps tremendously. And it helped me formulate things to ask providers too. Like as I'm listening to other women share their experiences, I'm like, oh, I don't even think about that. Okay, next appointment I'm going to ask if this is something I can have when I go into labor. So that was like really encouraging.

Speaker 1: 37:01

So hard to end up here doctor and be like what?

Speaker 2: 37:05

So hard.

Speaker 1: 37:07

What about this, or whatever? Yeah, it's intense.

Speaker 2: 37:12

I mean it's I promise you. Like talking about it, it sounds like, yeah, this was easy and I went it. I cried before and after doctors. It was like if you go to therapy and your therapist is like, okay, well, you know what you're going to have to honor yourself and establish boundaries, these things. This is your homework for this week.

Speaker 2: 37:37

And I felt tested every appointment and it was draining because it really goes against my personality. I'm such an easygoing person and I'm having to turn into like the big bad pulls for myself and I'm like this does not feel good. But at the same time, there was such a satisfaction knowing that like I'm standing up for me and my baby and I believe that this is what's best for me and my baby. I could not stomach the idea of getting cut open a third time. I'm like I'm not going to that recovery and there's a risk of uterine rupture with each D section as well. So I'm like there's proven cons across the board, but I'm like I'm at risk anyway and I'm like I can't do that. I can't go through that recovery with two kids, and so I really had to like just get it together and put all of my like beers and, like my people, pleasing tendencies aside and show up and say, hey, this is you know, this is what's going on.

Speaker 2: 38:38

And, of course, with my first provider it was the hardest. It's like he was my OBGYN since I was 19. So this was like a long relationship and I mean hysterical, hysterical. And the funny thing is he's actually my mother's GYN. So he would say to her like so how's Rachel doing? Does she have that beep at? I can't believe she did that. That's so dangerous. Did you tell her? And my mother never shared any of this stuff with me to my mother until after I had to my mom. He's like no, I don't know why she's doing this, you need to tell her. And I'm grateful my mother never came to me with any of that. And so after I'm like she was like I am so proud of you and honestly, this is what he was saying. And I'm like thank you, mom, for not sharing that with me, because I would have gotten in my head about that. But yeah, so this is a show you. But yeah, I really like it was intense, it was really hard.

Speaker 2: 39:40

I mean I tell people all the time like you have to really believe in yourself because you're going to have so many people that are just going to discourage you and, honestly, you really shouldn't even share with everyone. Like that was the other thing. I didn't tell a lot of people that I was trying to go for a beat back. Like, I kind of kept it close to my core group of friends, because people are always going to look at you like you're doing what? Why would you do that?

Speaker 2: 40:09

That's it's giving like big one Instagram and reading through comments and it's like yeah, no, I'm, I'm not going to share this, I'm protecting my peace, and that was probably the best thing I did for myself that I didn't even know the importance of Like. I just kind of just felt like this was the right thing to just don't tell people. And now I'm like, don't tell people, like, don't tell people what you're doing. If it's something that that's that's carrying that many obstacles. In addition to the fact that, like, I don't even believe in telling people your due day either, that's a whole other thing. Like I just, oh, I'm doing the spring, oh, I'm doing it, and it's, you know, it's yeah.

Speaker 1: 40:53

But yeah, people are so invasive anyway, I can't tell you how many so invasive? Or you've been a breastfeeding. I'm like why talking about that part?

Speaker 2: 41:04

How does that affect you? Right, and that's the thing we don't honor people's autonomy when it comes to what is it. Whatever it is they choose to do, whether you choose to breastfeed or not breastfeeding, whether you decide that you're going to go for whatever it is, everyone has an opinion. Everyone has an opinion. Honestly, I didn't realize that, like people were offended when someone shared that they wanted a natural bird or unmedicated bird, until my client, like because I would say that and people would be like why does she want that? Like what's wrong with paying medication? Not things right, it's not what you want For it.

Speaker 2: 41:43

Why are you mad at someone saying I want an unmedicated bird? Like it was crazy to me. I'm like, so you're really upset because she does not want to have medication. This is, this is a bad place to be. Guys like it's really crazy. Oh my gosh, why please let's? Because I just I love whatever someone loves for themselves. I think that's just the most easiest, simple way to go out. It's like if that's what you want for you, if you feel good about that decision, go for it. Go for it. If you want to have a home bird, go, because that's another thing. Oh God, forbid me here Someone say I want a whole bird.

Speaker 1: 42:26

Oh yeah, my girlfriend had a home bird. I thought that's what you, because I know the fourth that what I'm gonna have a home for my, your yes, yeah, that stuff, nobody understands it.

Speaker 2: 42:48

Nobody understands it. Why would you do that? We have hospitals, okay. Well, women were having home birds before. Hospitals were like a big yeah, people can really it's.

Speaker 2: 43:00

It's a lot of like division when it comes to like birth choices and again, that's one of the things that Joe meets. Don't want to be a doula because I'm just like. Someone needs to know that their decisions are okay. You know what I mean. Like when you have so many people who are not in any way equipped to get for any kind of advice telling you and sometimes it is your own family. You know they mean well, but they're going off of something that was like trending 3040, 50 years ago and that's not the case today.

Speaker 2: 43:32

And so you're navigating all these different opinions and all this feedback and you're just lost and you're in your feelings and you're and you're pregnant and it's just like no, you need to be centered and have someone that you can trust, that you know, totally unbiased, has your best interest at heart, and it really, again, it's a game changer. So I do have an Instagram page it's still under construction, but it's at doula reach and then people can reach me via email Rachel dot, julian, j u l I e n at gmailcom. I'm always checking my emails, I'm always checking my IGDM, so you know I'm always open to questions and anything else that anyone needs, because, again, I love this space, I love all things birth related. So, yeah, we.

Speaker 1: 44:29

I'm so glad we got the tonight yeah me too.

Speaker 2: 44:33

This is great. That's the number one advice I would tell people is do your research, educate yourself, like you have to go into it with some kind of knowledge of what you're seeking, Because again someone will make those decisions for you otherwise.

Speaker 1: 44:51

So thank you for joining us on this episode of the Golden Hour Birth podcast. We hope you've enjoyed our discussion and found it insightful and beneficial. Remember, the Golden Hour Birth podcast is made possible by the support of listeners like you. If you appreciate the content we bring you each week, consider leaving us a review on your favorite podcast platform or sharing the show with your friends and family. Your support helps us reach more people and continue creating valuable episodes. If you have any questions, suggestions or topics you'd like us to cover in future episodes, we'd love to hear from you. You can reach us on our website, wwwgoldhourbirthpodcast, or connect with us on social media. We value your feedback and want to make sure that we're delivering the content you want to hear. Before we sign off, we'd like to express our gratitude to our incredible guests who joined us today. We are honored that they trust us enough to be so open and vulnerable.

Speaker 1: 45:50

We're grateful for their time and willingness to share their stories with us If you're interested in taking the conversation further with us, join us on our Facebook group, the Golden Hour Birth Circle. We'll be back next week with another exciting episode, so be sure to tune in. Until then, stay golden and remember to take care of yourself. We'll catch you on the next episode of the Golden Hour Birth Podcast. Bye.