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Northern Power Women podcast for your career and your life no matter what business you're in. 

Simone Roche MBE  0:26  
Hello and welcome to the Northern Power Women Podcast and this the We Are More season. I'm your host, Simone Roche, and this season I'll be chatting to our winners, our commended and the Partners of the 2022 Northern Power Women Awards, doing what we do best. And what we love doing, which is showcasing and spotlighting role models. Now, if you're not quite up to speed, the Northern Power Women Awards are proudly the largest celebration of gender equality in Europe created to highlight the amazing impact that individuals, organisations, teams and services have, whilst accelerating gender equality and wider inclusion from up North. 

At Northern Power HQ we're passionate about continuing to build this community of trailblazers and go-getters and want to get you involved. And that's the question we always get asked, What can I do? How can I get involved? What can I do? Well, a great place to start is by making sure you sign up to our wearepower.net , which is our Power Platform. There you'll find our calendar of events such as the PoWEr up Micro-mentoring, as well as webinars and being able to nominate for the 2023 Northern Power Women Awards. What's not to love about all that? We've been busy over the summer! We'll put a link in the show notes so you can make sure you sign up today. 

So without further ado, my guest this week is our Outstanding Entrepreneur sponsored by NatWest. The winner of the awards this year was Liz Ashall-Payne. Liz is Co-Founder and Chief Exec of Orcha, the world's leading provider of digital health, accreditation and distribution services, trained as a speech and language therapist for almost 20 years. Liz led NHS transformation programmes helping to unlock the power of digital across the UK and Europe. In 2015, Liz founded Orcha attracted investment from the wonderful Sir Terry Lee and Bill Curry. The organisation has grown exponentially now providing digital health assessment and distribution services in 11 countries and in the UK to organisations in 50% of NHS regions. You are a multi multi award winner and Liz has been selected as Tech Trailblazer by the BIMA 100, picked as a Healthcare IT Leader by the HIMSS Future 50 and named Entrepreneur of the Year by British Chamber of Commerce and is also featured within the LDC Top 50. And, of course, our Outstanding Entrepreneur at this year's 2022 Northern Power Women  Awards. Liz was appointed an NHS England NIA fellow, is a coach for the NHS England Clinical Entrepreneur program, a member of the OCS Advisory Board, the Tech UK Health and Social Care Council and is the Associate Vice Chair for Standards for the British Computing Society. Who who needs to rest after that that is absolutely unbelievable. No wonder you are our Outstanding Entrepreneur of the year! Liz. Welcome, welcome!

Liz Ashall-Payne  3:17  
 Oh, hi, Simone. It's great to be speaking with you this morning. 

Simone Roche MBE  3:21  
You know, it's also a love reading these and you always want to shorten the bio and get into the chat. But do you know what this is? The awards are so important about high-fiving your own achievements. And I think one of the things I loved about this year's awards is it's going to sound awful as you were poorly. I don't love it that you were poorly. But I love the fact that because you were poorly your team collected your awards.  I know this is something really passionate, you know, everyone's been part of this journey for you, as you call it Riding the Lion. And we might come to that in a little bit. But, you know, what did it mean to you to be named Outstanding Entrepreneur and for your team to pick up that award for you? 

Liz Ashall-Payne  3:59  
Yeah, I mean, it's, as you said  I was really disappointed to not be able to be there on the night and I was watching from bed. But I do think that it ended up working out. And the reason being was that there was we had a whole table of ladies from Orcha. I was really excited to attend the evening and have my colleagues attend because of the networking opportunity to meet amazing women on the night. And then to win it?! I mean, I was watching from bed and the adrenaline, I just couldn't sleep after that. But what was really lovely was seeing the team be able to go and receive that award. So of course, it's called the Outstanding Entrepreneur, but there's no way I could do what, I do without the amazing team and it is a real team effort. So I felt like it worked out in the end because they were able to collect it. It was disappointing I couldn't celebrate with them because I would have loved to do that we have celebrated since. But I do think it worked out in the end because it was an award for all of us, not just for me.

Simone Roche MBE  5:07  
And it does make a difference and hasn't opened any doors for you? Because it feels to me that all your doors are already open with all these achievements and you're very present out there giving back and speaking and your profile is amazing anyway

Liz Ashall-Payne  5:21  
I mean, it definitely has I mean, the kudos it gives you is massive. And I do think that, I personally struggle to talk about myself, and this has given me an opportunity to talk about myself and my journey. It's really energising not just for me, but for the whole team. And it does open the door, and it opens the door to a number of different things, you know, people see that as a profile piece and kudos. But also meeting the other winners and meeting other women particularly northern women who are on the same journey, you know, the journey of an entrepreneur is not an easy one. And so meeting other people are on the same journey is so energising, and it's so needed, because we can be honest with each other and talk about things that are challenges, which helps you to get there and get where you want to get to faster.

Simone Roche MBE  6:13  
And I think there's something you talk about as a piece of advice that you've mentioned, which is about fail fast and fail often. And reframing the fact that failure can be reframed as a positive. And just in advance of today's chat. We were talking about, you know, people see all the, you know, the glitzy and the accreditations and the profile, but there's so much that goes on in the life and the journey of an entrepreneur, doesn't it? So does this fail fast and fail often does that resonate with you? 

Liz Ashall-Payne  6:45  
And it does, I probably just think about it slightly different. I don't use the word fail. What I talk about is, that success is not about never falling over. Success is about always getting up, you will fall over. And there will be challenges. But successes keep getting up and putting one foot in front of the other. And of course, learning is a massive part of that. And I use lots of analogies. And another analogy I use is the idea of a waterfall. If you look at I mean, where I live, I'm really fortunate there's a lot of nice water streams and rivers so there are lots of waterfalls. And when I'm walking quite often you see a waterfall and the waterfall is turbulent. And we have turbulent times in life. But of course in business as well. And sometimes it can feel when you're in that waterfall, you're gasping for air. But the reality is that isn't going to last forever. And when you look at a waterfall after that bit, you see that the waters calm again. And it's also deeper. And that depth is the learning that you've had. And so, you know, you mentioned learning to ride the lion. So learning to ride the lion is about enjoying the turbulence as well as the calm periods.

Simone Roche MBE  8:04  
I love that and a mentor of mine, a great woman called Laura Morgan. I remember saying to me when I was setting up the business that it was just treat it like it's a whitewater raft. You know, just make sure you strap in. Remember her saying: 'Is it bumpy?' And I'm like 'Hell yeah!', she was like: 'Just enjoy the ride as well'.

Liz Ashall-Payne  8:24  
Exactly. 100%. And I think rather than panicking, see it as a learning opportunity. And things are hard life. We've all had life experiences where there's been turbulence, it will come. But like I say success isn't about never falling over. It's about always getting up. And moving on from that.

Simone Roche MBE  8:47  
I love that. I think every time I have these conversations we were we put like a cheat sheet out with each episode as well, because it's always those like those top takeaways, which I always think are so important. And it's things like that you can insert in your brain that can take with you on your journey that day. And so tell us back in 2015, someone who was very accomplished in what you were you were already doing. What was your motivation and mission for setting up Orcha?

Liz Ashall-Payne  9:10  
Yeah, it's I mean, I've always had exactly the same passion. So, we all get asked the question when we're about 15 or 16. What do you want to be? And it's, it's a tricky question, because you don't nobody knows what they want to be at 15. And I didn't know what I wanted to be, but I knew what I wanted to do and knew I wanted to help people. And that naturally took me into health and health care. I didn't want to be a doctor or a nurse because I'm quite squeamish. So the additional roles available in healthcare and thought 'Oh, speech and language therapy, that could work for me' because my report always said could do better if chatted less. So I thought that could work for me. So I went off to train as a speech therapist and started work three years after my degree, and I was so excited. I thought today  I'm going to start helping people and this sounds really basic. But as a clinician, you can only see one patient at a time. So basic. And at the end of my first set, I've only seen six patients. What about everybody else? And that was the start of me getting absolutely obsessed with the challenge of how do we help more people access health care. Now, this was way before we had computers on our desks or smartphones in our pocket. So I got interested in transformational change, lean methodology. 

And then fast forward about 15 years, we started to see the rise of smartphones, and then digital health and health apps. And I thought this is it. This is the answer because everybody's bought a smartphone. There's now at the time, there was about 160 health apps out there 160,000, sorry, 160,000, digital health apps. And I thought, we just need to help people find these health apps, and then everybody can have access to health care. But the problems with activation, and getting people to use these technologies is far more complicated. So my drive was how do we help to improve lives through digital health, by distributing them safely. And I started to look at the world of drugs and how we distribute drugs. So in the world of drugs, we've all been prescribed drugs, there's a clear licencing process, which is about testing the drug, there's then training for doctors, there's then something called the British National Formulary in this country. So you may have seen your doctor look in a book before they prescribe the drugs. That's the British National Formulary. And then they prescribe it. 

So you might get a paper prescription or an E-prescription. And Orcha was set up to do that, for digital health. So we assess and evaluate digital health, we then train healthcare professionals in knowing about this world, we then create local formularies, and then prescription infrastructure. And in doing that, we're breaking down the barriers to adoption, engaging healthcare professionals, who can promote these very specifically to their patients, and safely. So yeah, it's I mean, it's just an absolute gift. And we're really transforming the way in which people think about digital health. And on my journey, what I've always done is helped more people with the next career that I'm doing. So you know, right now, we're actually now in 12 countries. So we're able to help people access health care when they need it, or when they want.

So it's ultimately you've used that entrepreneurial spirit to solve a problem, to be more productive, and use Tech for Good, 

Absolutely! 100%. It's all about tech for good, improving lives,  we're very mission driven at Orcha. We're all about the improving lives. And of course, we're a business as well. And one of the proudest things for me on the journey is that we now employ nearly 150 people. And that was always part of my passion, how do we support more people to have jobs because we know that wealthier populations are healthier. So it's a real privilege to see people who've been on this journey with us in the business maybe for six years now, buying houses, having families. And that wasn't something I really thought of as something that I feel so proud and honoured to be a part of.

Simone Roche MBE  13:30  
And there's that responsibility, isn't there with with building a team? And spoke earlier about the pride that you have about the pride that your team had in you about winning the award and collecting the award. So when you were in that startup environment, what, what are the key skills or attributes that you're looking for when you're building or expanding the team? Because it's sometimes it's hard, I'm in that position at the moment sort of growing the team. And it's challenging, isn't it? Because you want people to compliment but you want people different? Where would you start with this any top tips out there? 

Liz Ashall-Payne  14:00 
Yeah, I mean for me. I've always been really honest about what I'm not good at. And it's quite a hard thing to do. But I know what I'm good at. But I also know what I'm not good at. And so I built the team based on what I'm not good at. And so rather than me trying to be good at everything, which can happen in the early phases, bringing people who are miles better at you at things that either you don't want to do, or that you're not good at. So three months into setting up Orcha, I really was very honest with myself and thought, what is it I need? What skill set do I need that I don't have? 

Liz Ashall-Payne  14:41  
So a lot of what we do actually holds a liability, and there's a legal side to what we do. So I thought, well, I could do with a lawyer who understands digital, but I could also do with somebody who's super commercial, because back then I really wasn't. I've had to learn on the last seven years be more commercial, and I've been really fortunate, I've had a lot of amazing mentors. And then I also wanted somebody who understood healthcare systems, I was really clear about the attributes that are needed. And I started to ask my network, do you know anybody who's got the skills and attributes? 

I actually really believe in serendipity. And if you put it out, you'll get it back. I have asked a colleague about do you know anybody with these skills? And he said, I do actually, there's a chap called Tim Andrews. And actually, he was a lawyer in digital, he was then commercial director in big outsourcing company. And then he came and worked in the NHS as a chief exec. I thought: Oh, my gosh, I need to meet this chap. didn't really think too much about it. Fast forward a week, I went to a conference in Manchester. And I do talk to everybody. That's just part of my personality. And I was in a lift and I was asking this chap, what his name was, and he said, Tim Andrews, and I said, Oh, my gosh, is your background a lawyer? And he said, Yeah, and I said: 'Right, come and have a coffee with me'. And I do sometimes reflect and think, I can't believe he said he'd come and work with me, I had no money. I had no way of paying him. But he really was passionate about what I was trying to do. So fast forward a year. And I said, You're my co founder, you don't find a company once. And so that's how we we started and then what we did collectively. So what are our gaps? What are our collective gaps and we grew the team out. And it's, the collaboration is a big part of our culture at Orcha, we really value differences. And that's really how we've grown the team out. Wow.

Simone Roche MBE  16:44  
I mean, I'm literally I'm scribbling down as well. Thinking, right same time next week, Liz. Literally. It's my own mentoring experience on this. You know what, when talking you describe yourself from going from clinician to entrepreneur? What would you say? How would you sum up in a sentence or two, what your proudest achievement to date is on that journey apart from stalking people in lifts?

Liz Ashall-Payne  17:06  
Well, yeah, so I have, gosh, I've got so many proud moments, I think there's a couple of really proud things, which probably you wouldn't necessarily expect. But when somebody comes and tells me about this thing called Orcha, I love it. I feel like this is working people, they've not met me. They've heard about this thing called Orcha. So that's real pride. I had somebody once say to me, I said, I'm the Chief Exec of Orcha, and they went 'The Orcha?'. And I was like: *gasp* 'Yes!'. And honestly, that is like, wow, my picture in my brain of what I wanted it to be, it's starting to become that that's so proud. It's taken on a life of its own. It's like giving birth and watching your child grow. And I think the other thing is, see watching the team, work so hard to deliver that vision and get on board with that vision. Honestly, I cannot tell you how honoured and grateful I am for that.

Simone Roche MBE  18:10  
What you just said, honoured after the awards, we asked you what three words summed up your feelings, and you said, honoured, blessed and proud. You also said you were you were banned from staying lucky. Having had the time sort of to reflect on those three words, what would they be now? 

Liz Ashall-Payne  18:25  
What do you know, I wish I did reflect on this because I knew you were going to ask them this question. It's actually the same, the only word I'd add is blessed in a way really means for me grateful. I'm so grateful. I've got my heart filled with gratitude. And but I am super honoured. I mean, the list of women that were in the category, wow, what an honour to just be on that list with them, let alone to be the winner. Proud because of all those things I've just said, it's not just me, it's about the team. I know how hard we all work. And to get recognition, the pride in that is massive, and then blessed or grateful. I do feel really blessed. I've worked with the most amazing people. And the reason it's not, it's probably not down to luck. And somebody said to me, once another entrepreneur, you can't say lucky because you work hard. And so you can say blessed or grateful. So I try not to use the word lucky, because it's probably not, not all luck.

Simone Roche MBE  19:25  
And finally, what is next?

Liz Ashall-Payne  19:28  
Yet, so Orcha always was a global vision, really what we want to achieve a sustainable health care for all on a global scale. So since the award, we've set up offices and a new business in America, and over the next couple of years, you know, we want to really put our foot down to be able to support more people to have access to digital health. So the big focus is expansion across Europe, North America and Australasia. You So I do pick continents to go after. The work in North America is already starting to fly. It's just amazing. And a big passion of mine is if we can become sustainable through growth, and then be able to help countries who maybe don't have the ability to invest in companies, then I'll know we've made it.

Simone Roche MBE  20:22  
That's amazing. Because that's that whole Pay It Forward ethos, isn't it about everything you're doing has actually doing good, but also doing good sometimes for those countries that can't help themselves. So it's no you know, amazing, amazing, amazing, amazing, I could like chat all day, maybe we need a boxset. But we will be getting you back in and I know. We're excited that you're hopefully going to be able to join the judging this year, which is always really awkward. We always ask our winners to come back and be one of the you know, our judges, we have over 70 judges and it's always awkward a bit like, oh my god, did you talk about me like this to be like, yep, we absolutely did. So. Liz, thank you so much for chatting with me here today on the Northern Power Women podcast.

Liz Ashall-Payne  21:04  
Oh, thank you so much for inviting me.

Simone Roche MBE  21:07  
Thank all of you for tuning in today. If you love our episodes, please do let us know by rating, reviewing, subscribing. Wherever you get your podcasts, we transcribe every episode now, we put a cheat sheet out as well because we know that everyone engages in different ways. So help us spread the stories of fantastic role models like Liz who are accelerating gender equality and wider inclusion from the North and as Liz just highlighted, reaching globally. Reach out to us on socials @NorthPowerWomen on Twitter @NorthernPowerWomen on all our other social media. Let us know what you think old school podcast at Northernpowerwomen.com. Join us next Monday when I'll be joined by another wonderful role model from the Northern Power Women community. I'm Simone Roche, you've been listening to the Northern Power Women podcast and What Goes On Media Production.