Reflecting on Diversity and Inclusion in Women's Sports with Miriam Walker-Khan
Feb 12, 2024
Northern Power Women
Celebrate International Women's Day with us!
This week we are bringing you a conversation with Miriam Walker-Khan, Sky Sports News' trailblazing diversity and inclusion reporter.
An athlete turned journalist who has amplified underrepresented voices in sports media. Her story is as impactful as it is inspiring.
She opens up about the tough realities of combating imposter syndrome whilst dedicating her career to diversity and inclusion within the world of sports.
Join us as we explore the balance of diverse voices in journalism and find out the story of how she ended up interviewing Usain Bolt!
Listen to learn: - The lack of diversity in women's sports - The unique barriers faced by South Asian athletes - The current state of women's sports - How journalists maintain authenticity when narrating diverse stories
You can now nominate for the 2025 Northern Power Women Awards to be in with a chance of celebrating with changemakers, trailblazers and advocates on 6th March 2025! Nominate now at wearepower.net
Sign up to our Power Platform to check out our events calendar here.
This week we are bringing you a conversation with Miriam Walker-Khan, Sky Sports News' trailblazing diversity and inclusion reporter.
An athlete turned journalist who has amplified underrepresented voices in sports media. Her story is as impactful as it is inspiring.
She opens up about the tough realities of combating imposter syndrome whilst dedicating her career to diversity and inclusion within the world of sports.
Join us as we explore the balance of diverse voices in journalism and find out the story of how she ended up interviewing Usain Bolt!
Listen to learn: - The lack of diversity in women's sports - The unique barriers faced by South Asian athletes - The current state of women's sports - How journalists maintain authenticity when narrating diverse stories
You can now nominate for the 2025 Northern Power Women Awards to be in with a chance of celebrating with changemakers, trailblazers and advocates on 6th March 2025! Nominate now at wearepower.net
Sign up to our Power Platform to check out our events calendar here.
The Northern Power Women podcast for your career and your life, no matter what business you're in. Hello, welcome to the Northern Power Women podcast In this, our very special International Women's Day theme. We talk about International Women's Day a lot, and an awful lot of socus goes on that one day, but this year we're creating a whole series of conversations around International Women's Day and our theme being inspiring inclusion. This year, we're focusing specifically around sport, the world of sport, the business of sport and the amazing, phenomenal role models that work in and around the industry.
Speaker 1:
Every week, I'm going to be joined by some very inspiring and insightful guests who can share what their story is and give you some of those top tips to help you navigate your career and your life, irrespective of what background you are, what status you are, what level of you are in your career. It's all about sharing and passing on this knowledge. Let us read this week's guest. This week, I'm joined by the wonderful Maria Walker-Carn, who is the diversity and inclusion reporter for Sky Sports News. When I spoke to you just about a year ago, just before you were starting this job, maria, welcome welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2:
Thank you very much for having me. It feels like that year's gone very quickly.
Speaker 1:
I bet it has. How have you settled into the new role Not new now, I suppose a year in?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it's weird because I still feel really new, I think, because I'm never really in the office I'm always out and about. But it's been incredible. I get to do some really, really exciting projects, big kind of hefty documentaries and docu-series, and just meet some incredible people. So I'm loving it. I'm loving the variety and there's lots coming out this year, so yeah, loving it.
Speaker 1:
This was a brand new role, wasn't it? The diversity and inclusion reporter for Sky Sports News.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it's actually the first of that kind of role in the sports media industry too, so it's pretty epic, to be honest, to be doing it. I think it's something that a lot of people in the industry kind of do on this side, and I was definitely doing that when I worked at BBC Sports. I had a regular job I was actually the younger audiences reporter at BBC Sports News, but on the side. So much of what I did was about giving voice to communities in sport that don't often have it, that are kind of erased from a lot of the stories, and so having the space and time to do a job like this at Sky is just incredible and has been really live changing for me. I think it's given me a lot of confidence in telling these stories and it's kind of got rid of my imposter syndrome and away too. So, yeah, I'm loving it.
Speaker 1:
And what has been your path to this role? Because I've always fascinated how people get to where they get to, because there's never one straight route is there. It's not something you suddenly decide on in school or college or whatever. This is what I'm going to do today. What has been your story?
Speaker 2:
Well, I am sadly not one of those people who was like I always wanted to be a journalist, so I fell into it completely. I was a sprinter growing up, I did athletics and was quite ill when I was younger, so it didn't really work out for me because I was always injured due to that illness. And then at university one year I just kind of happened to start writing for an athletics website from a guy who lived in Shethield, my hometown. He set it up and then it really just escalated. Like the website became bigger and bigger the next year. Literally I was interviewing kind of Usain Bolt and going on the Diamond League circuit. So it escalated in like an incredible way. And then I did a Masters, because it was the first year that you could get a post-grad loan. So then did my Masters at Shethield University at home and broadcast journalism.
Speaker 2:
And then I still don't really know how this happened, but I got into the BBC's Journalism Training Scheme, which is a big, prestigious scheme that you never, ever imagine. You get told you won't go into it because like 5,000 people apply. So at uni they're like obviously apply, but like you're definitely not going to get it. And there was only one sport place that I didn't apply for news, I only applied to a sport place. I was living my chances down. Well, yeah, I got on that, which was, you know, the absolutely the best thing that's ever happened to me in the Essex site and the thing you get to train in all the different BBC Sports News departments, whether it's online, social media, television, radio.
Speaker 2:
And then I got a job in television. So I was an assistant producer for a few years and then I just went freelance and even though I was freelance, I still did kind of majority of the work at the BBC. But I really wanted to become a reporter and I think I knew that quite early on. I just like chatting to people. Even now people are like, oh, don't you want to be a presenter? And I'm like absolutely not. Like I'm not good at reading. All of Tokyo's reporting is for me Like send me out, let me chat to people.
Speaker 2:
And then, yeah, I eventually got back into the BBC as a senior reporter for younger audiences and then it was a year ago that I made the move to Sky and I think it's just you know you do. Obviously you do so many jobs when you kind of climb in that ladder and working out what you want to do, and this job, for me, is just completely perfect. It is a dream job and it's something I actually pitched the BBC and they said, no, that's that we're not going to do that. So I think, to do it at Sky, I kind of value it even more and I'm very happy doing it.
Speaker 1:
It's a real trailblazing role, isn't it? How would you describe the current state of diversity and inclusion across sport? I?
Speaker 2:
think it's a bit of a mess, to be honest. I think, like a lot of industries, dni has kind of become this like buzzword thing that has just fallen upon different industries and a lot of the time people don't really know what it means, how to handle it, what it actually, what the aim of it is. And I think, in sport in particular, we're in a weird place where I think a lot of athletes, a lot of black athletes in particular, can be exploited, and so it's a strange place. Obviously, every sport is completely different.
Speaker 2:
I grew up in athletics, which was, you know, people described it as multicultural, which I don't think it is. I think there's a lot of black athletes, which is incredible, but there are, you know, south Asian athletes. I did that sport for years 12, 13 years and apart from my brothers, the only other South Asian athlete I saw was like one guy from Leeds. So I think every sport is really different and I don't think governing bodies have quite worked out like how to improve issues. Football in particular, I think there are so many issues with, you know, the lack of diversity in the England women's team and I don't think that's been tackled properly. And I also think in sport, there are so many different organizations and governing bodies that don't work together.
Speaker 2:
So, yeah, I know it sounds really pessimistic, but I do think it is a bit of a mess. And I think it's difficult as well for media companies at the moment, who are trying to make their workforces more diverse, because it's really hard to get that balance right. It's really hard to make sure you're developing people and people are being represented, but also keeping everyone else happy. So I think we're in a really difficult time, to be honest, and I think everyone ultimately just needs to do a bit more learning, like reading books and having the proper people doing the training and stuff, which often doesn't happen. But I'm really lucky that I work in a team that is super young, enthusiastic, people just get it, and I think that's really important. And I've got a boss, my line manager, who is absolutely incredible and he's a white man and he's leading my role, my team, but he's absolutely the perfect person for that job because of his knowledge and how he manages people. So I think, yeah, people just need to think a bit more.
Speaker 1:
I think that thinking, and that's intentional thinking and you just talked about your boss that advocacy, that male advocacy, white male advocacy is really important. That's got a big role to play, hasn't it?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and he's a Northern, which helps. But, yeah, absolutely, I think that we talk a lot about allyship and people often don't really know what that means, and I think my boss in particular, he's not someone who would describe himself as an ally, but he absolutely is one, and I know that I can go to him with issues around my work, and not just as a producer but as a manager as well, and he's spot on with that. So I think it's really about taking people to who they are, no matter where they're from, no matter the background. Yeah, we need representation, but we also need the right people in those roles and I'm lucky with my manager that I've got that and I work with some incredible, incredible people. I get to interview the most interesting people in sport. In my opinion, like I think you know, my job is very different that I don't go and do the daily news conferences for football teams and stuff like that, so I get to kind of delve into huge issues that some of me like just really reward it and great to work on.
Speaker 1:
Is there anything recently that you've been involved with that highlights some of the positive, because it's it's it's prevalent, isn't it to see all the negative stuff that's out there, but is there anything that you've been involved in that really highlights positive changing and can give us all hope? Miriam.
Speaker 2:
I think there's something that I've been working on that's kind of changed, why the section of what journalism is. So it's a brand new series that is coming out in March and it was pitched to our team by a different group in Sky. That's an all female group that just like just really were passionate about an idea that they had and it's it's basically top tackling different topics that athletes go through. So we've got everything from like OCD, pelvic floor, health, grief, exercise, safety all these incredible topics that people don't really talk about but athletes go through. And so me, it has been the most incredible project I've ever worked on, because I think going to people with such a specific niche and chatting about that for like an hour really really opens people up.
Speaker 2:
And I was then you know I never cried in an interview before I started this series like people have cried on me a lot but I've never cried. And like the second interview it was about grief and, you know, miscarriage and losing a baby and I cried and I was like this is really weird, because I know I was like am I going to get sucked? I was like cut, but it happened twice after that because we were talking about grief. It's quite triggering for me, and the first time I was genuinely, really worried that I was going to get sucked, which is ridiculous because that would never happen. But the second or third time I just kind of let myself do it and it completely changed yeah, like I said, my perception of what a journalist is.
Speaker 2:
I think we sit and we watch, especially in school, a lot, of, a lot of men who are kind of middle age and very serious, and they are like newshound journalists and I'm so far from that. So I've always felt a bit like, how do I fit into this industry? But this series has given me, I think, like a new, a bit of a new identity as a journalist, because I'm able to just have those conversations and like be open about the fact that I also have emotions and that their stories are affecting me in that moment. So I'm I'm so lucky that those people pitched this idea to us and that we presented it, because I think it's going to be huge and really change things for people as well, and I think that is that one of the ways that the media can impact the overall you know sort of intention of change around diversity.
Speaker 1:
It strikes me that what you're saying is you're an authentic and vulnerable journalist. We need more of you, right?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I think so and I think you know, when you go through lots of different life experiences, you just naturally are like that and you're curious. And I think I'm, I guess, like I didn't realise all this until the past year but I'm someone that probably my strength is kind of getting people to open up through through my warmth not not really in like an intentional way just because I kind of can relate to people maybe a bit more. Or I've been to the things and I let myself relate to people. I don't kind of I don't think, oh, I shouldn't say like I get that, but I've done that throughout my career. It's something that I did, you know, even as a trainee.
Speaker 2:
I remember doing a really hard interview about someone who was racially being sent a football pitch and I said to him like I totally get this. Like something very similar happened to me when I was younger and he really braids for like talking about it, and then he just opened up and afterwards he was like it's because of what he said to me before that I felt I could do that. And I think we don't do enough of that as journalists. I think people that we interview a lot of the time they're like very nervous, they don't really want to be interviewed, especially for footballers, and so to know that they're talking to someone, gets it and understands and there's not going to catch them out, I think is really important.
Speaker 1:
So then what would you say? It's clear to me sort of, since we last spoke about a year or so ago, I think this is this role has really unleashed your, that vulnerable journalism, and so, for anyone listening out there, who is that aspiring sports journalist or journalist really passionate about diversity, inclusion? How would you give them some advice to navigate and be able to contribute as themselves, because this is a? This is a critical conversation we need to be having about D&I.
Speaker 2:
I would say exactly what you just said.
Speaker 2:
Just, I know this is like thrown around all the time, but genuinely just be yourself.
Speaker 2:
And I think in life like we spend so much time not doing that Like I, when I started at the BBC, you know, I started dressing in a way that I wouldn't normally dress, like I'm a bit of a tomboy, and I started like wearing kind of more feminine clothes which I wouldn't normally do, like work clothes, whereas as soon as I went to sky that, when I met my boss, the first question was like can I wear trainers on air?
Speaker 2:
And he was like yep, and I was like okay, great, and it sounds so silly, but just like wearing trainers, like sometimes wear a hoodie and a blazer, like I feel so calm and comfortable myself and like I know that I'm going to get the best out of whoever I interview. If I'm feeling calm, because if I'm more nervous and stressed which sometimes I am, because I'm still kind of new that that interview is going to be so I just think like be yourself, like think about the things that you bring to the table that are different, that are that are powerful as well, and when you do that and you know when you are, you're empowering yourself in any job that you do.
Speaker 1:
You talked about some of the interviews you do in, like sometimes you know whether it be football or I think doesn't necessarily want to be interviewed, but you can get there to open up. But how do you see on a wide of you athletes responding around discussions around diversity and inclusion in the in the sports media?
Speaker 2:
I think it really depends on like how, how much space and time they're given.
Speaker 2:
Like I was saying, if you go to someone and you give them a topic to chat about for an hour, they're going to really open up. I think if you just go to someone and you ask them loads of questions and one of them happens to be about something related to DNI, they're not going to feel about listening to. So I think now, more and more obviously, athletes are using their own platforms to tell their stories and use their voice, which I totally understand, because the media can be really toxic and twist things, and you don't want that kind of stuff to be twisted. They're not like little sound bites, they're not headlines, they're really important parts of someone's life. So I think people are definitely speaking up about it more and like eager to speak up about it because they're they're the really important stories in people's lives. They're not, you know, they're not like the the little things that. They're the huge things that make people who they are. So I think people are definitely getting, yeah, more open to sharing those stories. And who do you think?
Speaker 1:
are those athletes out there that are becoming and have become those advocates for, for change and have influenced their, their, their communities.
Speaker 2:
I think globally, you know, for me definitely Serena Williams. Definitely she's the most kind of hell, yes. And Alison Felix actually, like she was for me a huge role model growing up and I think, especially later in her career and everything she's done off the track after her career. She is an incredible, incredible force and it you know, it's really hard for athletes who are still competing I think the ones that that do this stuff but I are competing. It's incredible.
Speaker 2:
I also think in England women's football team Latta, woodrow and Roy is such a powerful voice and speaks so openly about things that a lot of white athletes don't talk about and what she used to talk about, and for me that's really valuable. You know, when someone's acknowledging their own privilege and they're trying to make things better, I think that's really incredible. So she's amazing. I don't, I don't know. I think like there's there's probably the answer you'd Kelly Holmes recently and for me that was just amazing because I've got like photos with her when I was 10 and stuff. But I think her story and the way she shared her story about coming out so late in life after we see, you know, being raided in the military, that's incredible. I just think we don't. We don't think enough about that kind of stuff and the history that athletes have gone through that it's not even long ago, so that was definitely a highlight for me. Really helped me personally as well.
Speaker 1:
Nobody just pitches up at the tractor then gets a medal at the end of it. It doesn't, it's not, it's never like that. What do you hope to see over the next few years, as you see it getting better? You've talked about it as being. You know this is a quite a challenging position, but can you see hope? I can.
Speaker 2:
I can. I also think it depends on how we allow athletes to share their stories and even to protest. Obviously, there's a thing in the Olympics and I see how it's called 50, which means they can't protest at the Olympic Games, which you know. I'm sure we'll see a lot of stories surrounding that this year. I also think people kind of pick and choose when they when they want to talk about DNI.
Speaker 2:
I think in sport especially, you know, last year we celebrated at the Women's World Cup hours out in Australia. Everyone was kind of celebrating the fact that there was a hijabi woman for the first time playing on the rocking team. Yeah, it's incredible, but it's also 2024 and no one's talking about the fact that, you know, in France the hijab is banned in sport. So I think there's a lot of, you know, hypocrites, to be honest, in the sport that don't, that don't want to address issues that mean that they're going to have to challenge power. So I think a lot needs to change and a lot, a lot of people that you know don't put them on your other mouth is need to do some some walking and less talking. But I think this year, hopefully, like I'm going to be in a few projects and things like that and hopefully we bring a bit more attention to it.
Speaker 1:
And I think, having this new role for you and giving you this platform and this space to be yourself and bring other people's real self out, I think you're part of the change, miriam. I think you are an ultimate role model in what you're doing and I think the conversation is a say that has changed from a year ago, because I think you are part of the change and I thank you on behalf of our Northern Power Women Unbound out there for doing what you do. Thank you so much for joining me today and sharing this really critical and vital conversation.
Speaker 2:
Do you know what's meant. Thank you so much and thank you for everything you do. And thank you actually for calling that award disruptive for good, because when I got nominated for that, it was absolutely my favorite. My granddad always roast me because I don't have a win awards, but I always get nominated and it was my favorite award I've ever been nominated for, because I think it kind of empowers you to keep disrupting for good.
Speaker 1:
So thank you so much for having me and empowering me and, yeah, we do like to be quite intentional with the titles of the awards so they feel quite real, because there's no such thing as there is just a woman of the year or a man of the year or a leader of the year. I think it's a doing word, isn't it? It's like an active word and you were totally valid and credible in that category, and so thank you so much, really look forward to following and seeing these series when they come out as well, and giving these real conversations a real voice. So thank you so much, miriam, and thank you to all of you for listening. We love getting your feedback. We know that the conversations that I am fortunate enough to have make a difference in your world as you're, whether you're walking to work, whether you're walking the dog, whatever you're doing.
Speaker 1:
Thank you so much for listening. Please do stay connected on all our socials at North Power Women on Twitter and Northern Power Women and all the other socials, and please leave us a review and let us know what you think and enjoy the wider International Women's Day series that we've got this year, because it's really, really exciting. Thank you so much for listening. Stay connected with everything we do on our digital hub. We are Powernet. My name's Simone. This is the Northern Power Women podcast. Remember to wear your Lon. Locos on media production.