Episode 4: Purity culture and trauma...help! Pt 2

How does purity culture and trauma impact our present-day spirituality? Interestingly, the answer to that question reveals a lot about the embodiment of our sexuality too.

Follow us on Instagram @bethany_fray and @charissabrim and online at neverwouldhaveguessed.com

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Resources:
Here are a few others speaking on the topic of purity culture:

• Dr. Camden Morgante (@drcamden)
• Sheila Gregeoire (@sheilagregoire)
• Where Do We Go Podcast (@wheredowegopod)
• Sarah of @DesconstructingPurityCulture
• Dr. Laura Anderson (@drlauraeanderson)

Transcript

Charissa 0:10

Hello, and welcome to

Bethany 0:12

never would have guessed the

Charissa 0:13

podcast. I'm

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one of your hosts,

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Bethany fray.

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And I'm your other

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host Caressa brim. This is a place where we

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dive into the things others never would have guessed

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about sexual drama. Here's

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what we want you to know.

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No matter

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your relationship to sexual

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trauma, you are

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welcome in this

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conversation. And while this podcast centers around our experience, specifically with sexual trauma. The concepts we cover

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may apply to other traumas as

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well. We are not therapist, but

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therapy has been

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game changing for both of us. We've also seen that safe conversations with trusted people

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can be an anchor

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in the healing

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process. We know

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firsthand that this can be a heavy topic. So

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consider this your official invitation to

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own your experience of this conversation.

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if you get three minutes in

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and feel like your shoulders have become permanent earrings, Just hit the pause button. Take a few deep breaths, maybe

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move your body a

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bit. Decided

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today is a good day to enter this conversation.

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And then trust your decision

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with no

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shame. At

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the end of every episode, we

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will guide you through

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a two minute grounding

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exercise. To hopefully leave you feeling

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light and empowered

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by honest conversation.

Bethany 1:28

Thank you so much for joining us. We are so glad you're here.

Charissa 1:33

This week in episode four, we were picking up with part two of our conversation on purity, culture and trauma. This can be a really complex subject which is why we split it up into two parts. So, if you weren't able to catch episode three last week, we would suggest starting there just so you can get a baseline for this conversation. The focus of this episode is going to be on what spirituality looks like for both Bethany and I now in light of our trauma. And how that connects to our evolving understanding of our sexuality.

Bethany 2:10

So the question that comes to my mind is both of us talked about how spiritual.

Charissa 2:15

Has been a big part of our lives. Um,

Bethany 2:19

so I'm curious for

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you in this process

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of reflecting

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back on charity culture and

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the trauma and pain that has left

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you with,

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how does that impact your relationship with

Charissa 2:38

healing and spirituality? Um,

Bethany 2:42

Such a great question.

2:43

Spirituality and trauma. I didn't really see a connection other than I knew when things were hard to just dive into my spirituality. Prayed journal, read my Bible and I'll be honest. Like my relationship with God has been powerful apart from the religious scaffolding. Um, the intense experiences that I've had with the divine have not really been connected to things that are really harped on from. Pulpits and in small groups, I totally resonate with that. So I'll say in some ways I'm like double down, but I'll be honest. In the last couple of years, it's impacted my spirituality. And I think it's because the way purity culture was so deeply presented as connected to God. Then all of the shame that comes into period culture is directly connected to God. And so then you have just like your good old fashioned classic textbook shame from sexual trauma. And then, oh my God. I've had sex outside of marriage now. Right. Because like that's, I think I would later redefine sex. Yeah. But well, oh my gosh. Like now I. I'm out of my good graces. This was the thing that I could always count on to prove that I was good and righteous and like walking the straight and narrow, like I have crossed over yes, for crying out loud. I tried so hard with so many guys. I liked so much to not cross that line and then just always anyone. Right. And. Without consent. It was rattling, so rattling. And so I, it feels to me like the normal shame that comes with sexual trauma was then just amplified because then of all of the religious shame that was partnered with it, like so inseparable. Yeah. And I think as I start to divorce myself from that shame, it feels really hard not to divorce myself from religion. Because the way that I experienced my story. Yeah. It felt like a setup that then once it happened, I was left out to dry. And so that is just not the God I know. And so I don't know if my God fits into the narrative that I was going. And I can't separate a lot of the narratives that probably feel really benign to a lot of people. A lot of religious teachings probably just feel like a normal Sunday, but in my mind, I'm immediately drawing a thousand connections to this is how people get abused. This is how people get taken advantage of this is how we set our societies and our families up for failure. That feels hard to say because it was such a core part of my idea. But I think the benefit in exploring spirituality like this is now, I just have so much more permission to be curious. It's not as dangerous to dream that God is bigger than what we've made him to be. So it's an ongoing journey, but that's where I think that's where I'm kind of landing now. And I think. Just helpful today. Recognize without shame that trauma impacted my spirituality, but that's not something I have to be shameful for So for you, I know that you have explained the connection between your family, the church, your participation in the church, your kind of like cleaning to beer, to culture as like a life Rahab. What does spirituality look like for you right now in light of your trauma? Well, I, uh, could answer this question with a book. It feels like it's like, oh my gosh, how to summarize my spirituality has evolved so much through my healing process and. I was just sitting here, vigorously nodding my head when you were describing the most impactful experiences with the divine have felt other than the restrictive teachings that I was brought up. And I mean, I was just going like absolutely how purity culture ended for me in. Uh, you know, spoiler alert, I got married to a fellow worship leader and also aversion, you know, we gritted our teeth through engagement and, and may you live the dream? I live and I'm here to tell you it's everything they said it would be. Yeah. For the audio sarcastic written notes. Yeah. And dripping with sarcasm. No, I mean, if Jordan were sitting right next to me, we would both be in agreement on it was the biggest disappointment for a few reasons. One, you cannot completely shut down your sexuality. And then overnight, turn it on overflowing. It doesn't work that way. And there's so much pressure and there's so much expectation placed on your wedding night and your honeymoon. Like, I remember, you know, what are you through? We joke about like, you know, older siblings, or like, let's say we're seniors and people who are like, you know, cause I lived in this house it's like two or three years old are getting married. Like, oh, your brain has not even fused to gather yet. Like, can we just take a moment? And I remember the joke was like, oh, they're going on their honeymoon. You're like, wait, wait, like have fun. Like just this like so much emphasis put on the wedding night. And man, you talk about what set you up for failure. It's like by God, how much pressure to put on two people and on one night. So I felt cheated. I fell disillusioned. I felt actually, you know what, before I felt cheated, I felt again, Like I had ruined everything. So we'll talk about this a little bit later, but for me in her course was very painful. Even though I loved Jordan, I was really into what we were doing. I had conflicting messages going on in my body where part of my body was like there. And I'm with. Part of my body is triggered out of my mind. And then part of my body is like, absolutely not. Wow. I mean, and I just, hadn't no tools. I had no tools to deal with this because all I knew was like, this has been shut off and then turn it on. And because of the. Expectation of the wife providing sex from her husband. I felt like I was helium right out of the gate. And so, uh, for a couple of years, I was really used to and comfortable with the shame near death and the, I am bad news. That man. I just stayed in that and the consequence for my body was constant pain, just constant pain and migraines and stress and anxiety. And I paid the price for it after years of sexual abuse as a kid. And so that was the first time I started thinking, wait a second. I played the long game for a long time and I didn't get this prize that was promised to me. So I must've done it wrong. This is, this is what I wish we would teach young women. Your sexuality will change and ebb and flow over time every year, every couple of years as hormone shifts. Like if you decide to have babies, if you are able to have babies after you have kids, like as life circumstances, change, as you become more comfortable with your body. As your partner changes. These are things that I've learned. These are things that I have given myself permission to embrace and be, and it's taken me a long time to be okay with being a sexual person, it's taken me a long time to be okay. Being human because it terrifies me. It absolutely terrified me. If I let myself be sexual. If I let myself feel pleasure. I viewed sexuality as this. Have you watched Raya and the last dragon sadly? No, I have not watched that yet. Okay. Well, in the movie there is this, like amoebic kind of smoke. That just Ingles people and it doesn't have a particular shape. It's very unpredictable. And when you let it out, it consumes everything in its path. And when I saw that movie, I was triggered as hell. Cause I was like, that was how I viewed sexuality, this powerful thing without shape, without name, without context. And it consumes everything in its. And I know it's in me. Like I can't deny that it's in me, but don't let it out. My God do not let it out because you don't know what it will consume. And I'm finally in the place. I'm a re naming it I'm recontextualizing it. I am embracing my sexuality, not in relationship to other people. Wow. Not in relationship to my husband, not in relationship to purity culture, gnarly, like in relationship to my body, to my. Parts and pieces and emotions and experiences. Malaise sexuality is mine. And to go even further than that, I can be with divine and be sexual and be beloved. My sexuality is not separate from my spirituality. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. My sexuality is not separate from my spirituality. That is blowing my mind right now. Thank you so much for being so honest about. What that journey has looked like because, oh my gosh, that feels so deeply, deeply relatable in ways that like, sometimes we don't know we've experienced something until we hear someone else say it, and then it's like, oh wait, that's it. And as you were answering the question of how. Sexual trauma impacted spirituality. I thought it was so fascinating that you described your sexual, like your journey with Zach's and I think that is so incredible. And your presence is so fire in this room right now. I have like so hot, like truly, like it is just thinking about. Kind of just this story arc that you've given us. What in like, just a few minutes, that is such a victory cry. The fact that your story starts with this insidious separation, where it's like, if you're going to be a part of this spiritual community, you will not have a sexuality. And now sexuality is your spirituality or vice versa. Or maybe that's like an overstep of phrase, but they're not really. Like Bethany, that's a chewing and really emotional art. Yeah. And for all the period culture kids who were given such similar narratives, if we are made in the image of God and we are sexual beings, then our sexuality and spirituality has got to be connected. And not because we are a vessel to. A different being your own manner. Yeah. Our humanity is what we spend. If we let it a lifetime trying to outrun. Oh. And yet our humidity is the way we can act what's of height by. That is the connection. And, and to be human is to be sexual. I think I'm just overstating the point. God, it was a great fucking gauge. Good news. Does any projects you back. I just want to say for the listener, I, I cannot help, but draw this connection right before we hopped on to talk about this. Like the interview was kind of low. Like we were kind of feeling a little bit tired and so we had like a little dance party and Bethany pulled up Justin Timberlake's Spotify, which he is. I love her as, as she struggles to put a sentence together. I, uh, um, Justin Timberlake eight. Okay. Currently his number one song is still sexy back. Is that the name of this episode? Sexy back. We can name it that. Wow. I have any, thank you so much. I like already said thank you. But it just it's, um, these are such hard conversations to have, because it's so easy to not be as honest as you want to be. And like, I'm sure we've both held back appropriately as we need to, but it's just such a good reminder that. Safe vulnerability and honesty. Oh, the post-Christian trying to figure out her spirituality woman sitting here. It feels so cringy doing this, but like, I think all truth is God's truth and I think truth sets us free. And I think a lot of truth has been spoken here and that feels really freeing. Hmm. Yeah, I think this topic deserves so much airspace. Mm. And there are some people who are devoting so much time and wisdom and research and who are storytellers, who are. Are becoming some of the forefront experts for those of us who shared this, this similar journey through and out of purity culture. And so we are going to list some of those people and the notes so that they can say things we forgot to say and say some of the stuff better. And if something in our conversation today has rattled your brain. And if there are questions, like if you don't have a full thought and you just like bullet points like this, plus this, this question, mark. That's you that feels, um, I don't know, we're both verbal processors and it really helps us to just get the dang thing out. Yeah. Let's make a space to process it. Well, for those of you who would have never guessed about how much there was to dissect between purity, culture and sexual trauma, hopefully today was just a little bit enlightening. So whether you. Or someone who loves someone who's experienced beauty culture and, or sexual trauma or someone who has firsthand, had to go at all fits. Hopefully today brought you just a little bit closer to your own knowing.

Charissa 21:37

Today, we're going to take a moment to reconnect with our bodies and our surroundings. And we're going to do that by looking at her hands. Slowly stretch your arms in front of you bringing your hands into focus. Begin wiggling your fingers. Drawing your attention to each of your individual fingers.. Turn your hands. So that you were looking at the back of them. Notice three particular attributes about your hands. Is there one pronounced, freckle or mole that you noticed? Maybe you have a hangnail you didn't see before. After visually taking in your hands. Now, turn your hand over. Tracing the inside of your Palm. Now together we will pinch together our thumbs with each individual finger. Let's begin by touching together our pinkies and our thumbs. Now as pressed together, our ring finger and thumb. Moving to our middle finger. And ending with our pointer Wiggle your fingers. One last time. Taking a deep breath in. And looking around at your surroundings as you breathe out. Breathing deeply. Paying attention to my body. These have all been crucial to my healing And If I'm honest, Part of my healing journey has also included learning how to feel comfortable asking for what I would like. So here If you enjoyed this conversation today, please feel free to share it and rate, review, and subscribe wherever it is that you listen. You can find us on Instagram at Bethany underscore fray and at Carissa brim. Or online@neverwouldhaveguessed.com. You can also help sustain the podcast by becoming one of our Patrion subscribers. Find us at patrion.com/never would have guessed podcast. All of this really does make a gigantic difference for us and helping these conversations. Make their way to others who need them to. Friends. Thank you so much for listening. As you go out into the rest of your day. May you feel empowered to navigate the things others never would've guessed about you. And to make room for others doing the same. We'll see you guys next week.