New Forensics Reignite Doubts About Kurt Cobain’s Death: The Darkside Of Music

The Kurt Cobain case never stopped haunting music culture, but the latest round of reporting throws gasoline on the debate: independent forensic claims are once again pushing the idea that what was ruled a suicide in 1994 may have been homicide. We sit with the uncomfortable part, not just the theories, but the logic gaps that keep showing up whenever people reexamine the evidence.

We dig into the specific details listeners keep bringing up when they search for answers: missing fingerprints on the weapon, questions about the scene, and why certain facts feel incompatible with a clean “case closed” narrative. We also talk about how internet-era true crime changes the way cold cases are challenged, and why a high-profile death like this draws endless reanalysis from podcasts, researchers, and everyday fans who can’t shake the inconsistencies.

Then we zoom out to the real-world mechanics: what does it actually take to reopen a closed case, and who has the power to make that happen? Along the way we explore motive lanes people argue about, from intimate partner statistics to music industry pressure, plus a few wild hypotheticals that show how wide speculation gets when official clarity feels thin. If you care about Nirvana history, true crime forensics, and the messy intersection of celebrity and policing, this one is for you.

Listen now, then subscribe, share the episode with a friend, and leave a review. What piece of evidence or unanswered question sticks with you the most?

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:38

Hello everyone. Welcome back to the dark side of music. Danny, how are you, sir? I'm doing good.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Look, I am I'm excited to be here and everything. Like just happy to be here if I had to say. Um, but I look exhausted and I apologize because I I had I had a show all day slash night yesterday. And so like if I'm I'm feeling it, I'm feeling it right now. But but I'm really I'm I'm excited to be here. I I'm just I just look tired, I swear. But anyway, if you're listening to this, you have no idea, and that was just a very confusing thing for me to say. But if you're watching the podcast, I look tired, but I'm really excited to be here because this I mean it it's happening so early. Our first follow-up episode ever.

SPEAKER_03 1:27

Yeah, yeah. It we had to do this one, but before we before we get started, I have to tell you a piece of news. Okay. So you, sir, are being called the golden retriever of the true crime world. Just just so you know, they they've already coined uh uh a phrase for you specifically. I'll take it. So far, the the biggest uh comment that we've gotten is Danny is the most high energy person to have on a true crime podcast.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

I'm just I'm just excited to be here. Like I and and we're talking about really heavy things too, so I feel like I have to like even be like, let's every moment's a moment for comedy. Like, I don't know.

Breaking News On Cobain Case

SPEAKER_03 2:18

Yes, yeah. No, I told uh I told somebody recently that that brought that up. Um, I said it's a it's a great mix because when you're talking about something so so heavy with two people who have a sense of humor, you have to have this level of energy because if one of us comes in too low and makes an off-color joke, we are screwed.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Not only that, but like it's heavy, like we're talking about some real heavy stuff. So it's just like I got I gotta balance it out somehow.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

Absolutely. Uh, speaking of heavy, um, today is the Kirk Cobain follow-up based off of some breaking news that happened quite recently, uh I believe a month or so ago.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Yeah, at this point, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:07

Um, so they finally came out and said that there is a strong chance that Kirk Cobain's death was in fact not a suicide. They believe now that it was in fact a homicide. And we're gonna dive into all of the update. Right. But I am convinced. So this news came out a week, I kid you not, seven days to the day after we put up our first episode. I am convinced that somebody either in the FBI, CIA, NSA, somebody heard us talk about that specific case and said, huh, I've I've never considered those facts before. And I think that we truly broke the the case here. I think this is our first claim to fame.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Well, keep checking the subscriber list. If you see one that says like not the FBI or not the Z, then we know they're following along on the podcast. Uh but I mean, look, look, that that is awesome that it feels like we broke the story. Um, but a lot of the points that we made, I still feel like are pretty obvious. And it's not it's not like we're really like making really any stretches. Like and we're gonna get into everything, just like you said. But a lot of it, and I was saying this to you like when we were looking at the list, and I was like, well, we kind of said that already. We kind of said this, we got and it's like, yeah, because they're kind of really like super. I just don't understand how there's there was no shadow of a doubt to be able to call it case closed, because there is nothing but shadow of doubt. Like, I I I am firmly on it it there there was like even if you couldn't prove that it was a homicide and and on the other side of it, you couldn't 100% prove that it was a suicide. Like you to close a case, you really have to be sure. Absolutely. So, like, I don't know. I don't know, just the more that like now that it's like the sec the the the the part two, like the second time we're revisiting this, I'm I'm like even more like they had they didn't have any ounce of doubt the to keep it open or like to re- and the interesting part of this uh from what I've seen is uh unless it there there may be some breaking news that we haven't seen yet, but based off of the research that I've done, they're uh still closed the case.

SPEAKER_03 5:57

Right. They haven't reopened so basically an official report came out saying, hey, we think it was a homicide, but we're gonna just keep this one closed. How in what situation does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Well it's two different what it's like two different agencies arguing, right? Or is it you know, so like a private detective is now looking into like where do we get like the actual because I know what they were saying, like the the police department that closed the case officially is is still saying that there's not enough to reopen it, basically, is what they're saying. Yeah, more or less Seattle, Seattle uh police department. That's I knew it was Washington, but I just couldn't like figure out exactly.

SPEAKER_03 6:44

I didn't know, but um, but yeah, so like I I don't know what the other agency that kind of came out and said, like, hey, we don't think this was a suicide, but like it's I do believe it was a private investigator that came out and said, based off of the forensic data, we've determined that it more than likely was a homicide. Um, but there there was, I see, this is the the world of the news that we live in. There was a report that I saw that said they did open up the case, and then while I looked into it, it everything points to no, it's not true. They have not opened the case back up. Um, they're just kind of rolling with the idea of that it was a homicide.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

I don't like I don't know what goes into being able to reopen a case. Like, my I have you know, my knowledge of like police rules and stuff like that is like Brooklyn 99. So like I don't have a really good scale for like how difficult is it to reopen a case? And and is it like if it is like something like a a murder or a suicide or something, is it like offensive to reopen a case?

SPEAKER_03 7:58

Like type of thing, like question.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

That that's what I'm wondering. Like, I just but I I don't know the difficulty either. Like, do they have to like go in front of a judge and like plead a case to like, hey, this needs to be reopened? So it might be a process. That's the other part of it. Like, you may be seeing two reports kind of in a line. Like this might be a progression of like, oh no, we can't officially reopen it until a judge ruling, but they have to present all of you know all that kind of. I just don't know what kind of like I don't know if it's like cases reopen, cases close. Like you know what I mean? I I don't know what goes into it.

SPEAKER_03 8:34

I wonder, do you think that um that ice tea would come on? Is he is he like close enough to because he's kind of involved in both, right? He's kind of like a cop and a musician at this point.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

So well, we gotta that's we gotta get him on. Can can we get the first guest of the podcast and it be ice team?

SPEAKER_03 8:56

Dude, I I if iced tea comes on the show, I might just like have him do the whole thing and I just sit and listen.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

What if we what if we got iced T on for the first guest of the podcast?

SPEAKER_03 9:10

Yeah, incredible.

Forensics Flags And Missing Fingerprints

SPEAKER_00 9:11

We get along, flash two, we're best friends with Ice T, and then he's it's a it's a three-man podcast moving forward.

SPEAKER_03 9:19

I dude, I am I'm so in. I I'll even go on law and order. I don't I can't act, but I can play dead pretty well.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

I mean, I I'm the same, I'll do the same, or I'll be just I'll just be like innocent bystander, like yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:36

In the ice cooler. All right, so more than 30 years after the front man Kirk Cobain of Nirvana was found dead in April of 1994. Uh much scrutiny has reignited one of the ROC's, one of Rocks' most enduring controversies. What was once widely accepted as a suicide is now being challenged yet again, not by tabloids alone, but by a team of forensic researchers and independent investigators publishing new analyses of the case. So that was the exact headline from uh I believe it was Times magazine, um, in regards to this case and the the new evidence that came out, but the internet flooded with videos and articles, and immediately everybody was like, Oh, we knew it. Yeah, um, and kind of like we said, it's it's all of the stuff that we brought up. It's it's the the no fingerprint situation, it the we're missing blood splatter. He couldn't hold the shotgun with that much heroin in his system. Um he purchased the the shotgun. So him walking from said gun store home with no fingerprints on this weapon is impossible. Yeah, like to me, that's the biggest red flag of anything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Yeah. I I was gonna say, I was gonna say the exact same thing. Like, look, I know people build up a tolerance to drugs. Like, you use a lot of drugs, you can build up a crazy tolerance, and and there are you know, you know, outlier cases where you know someone has has really built up a tolerance so they can have a crazy amount and still be functional, not passing for normal, but they can still be functional. I'm not saying that's the the case in in this, I'm just saying you can explain that away with that if you want to.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

But fingerprints, if you commit suicide, you can't rub clean the thing that you use to commit suicide.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

Like there's you can't. Unless look, and I started looking at it this way unless they just took out certain evidence. Like Kurt Cobain had gloves on. No one's ever said anything, or like you know what I mean? Like, unless they just leave that kind of stuff out, which I there's no way they left it out, but like you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 12:13

Like you bring up a good point though. What if what if there were fingerprints and that evidence is just missing? That's uh missing, like that's the same the yeah, especially on a case that high profile. Like it it wasn't like uh I don't even know, like uh I don't know, a drug lord in Pennsylvania. You know what I mean? It was it was Kirk Cobain. So in the height of his career, like he was the biggest thing. Um so yeah, I don't know, man. I I think the other conspiracy that's rolling around the internet right now is that he didn't purchase the weapon, that somebody stuck the receipt in his coat pocket. Because there's there's not technically like video of him purchasing the weapon, there's not video of him showing up with the weapon, but they've always said he purchased it on his way from the rehab facility um on his way to his house because he had the receipt on him.

How Do Cases Get Reopened

SPEAKER_00 13:29

But so I know there's weird laws in every state concerning guns and stuff like that, and I also know there's different laws on the type of guns and stuff like that, but don't they have to do a bat like a quick background check anytime you buy a gun? Like I think that would be now I feel like that would be bare bones minimum. Like, yeah, because I know there's a three-day waiting for certain guns and in certain states and stuff like that, but like even if like because I I I mean I don't know. I I have no guns of my own. Um, but even if it was like I'm gonna go down to Walmart to buy a shotgun, I feel like they would have to run an ID or a background check before they're letting me walk away, or maybe they still let me walk away, but like they're like, hey, uh, if anything happens, this is this is the time he bought it. Like, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 14:20

Like, I I feel like it's that way now, but I think in the 90s it might not have been because when I was 10 years old, I I come from a family of hunters. So when I was 10 years old, it was like a mandatory rite of passage. You're gonna go out, you're gonna get your hunting license, you're gonna go hunting. And I was able to purchase a shotgun as a 12-year-old at a Walmart with my parents, that's and they just handed it to me. And that's crazy. So I don't know, man. I think it's different now.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

But but did they check your your your hunter license? Did they check your parents' stuff?

SPEAKER_03 14:59

I think they checked my mom's ID, but they didn't they definitely didn't run a background check. It was more of just like somebody over the age of 21 has to purchase the weapon, but yeah, there was no paperwork involved, nothing. It was just like, here you go, kid. Wow, that has always bothered me. So wow, I always thought that was like, hey, that's a little far, don't you think? Um, so I think it was just more of a relaxed time. You figure this was also before like 9-11. This was before um a lot of the major mass shootings in the United States. So probably was just a more like, yeah, here you go, man. Welcome to America, Second Amendment.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

Holy crap. But I mean, yeah, I guess, like, like I said, there's there's stuff that I mean, it it's just more of like seriously, there's no shadow of a doubt you were able to close the case. Like, yeah. We have this many questions, and we don't even have like we weren't there, we weren't able to like look at the real evidence and and stuff like that, like that the police collected and everything, and still we we had we were able to close the case without a shadow of a doubt.

SPEAKER_03 16:22

That I was isn't is that the beauty of the internet though? Like, oh yeah, internet is a terrible place for a lot of reasons, but when you think of crime or just like shut closed cases with today's technology and everything, and especially the internet and everybody being obsessed with crime as a subject, like we how many cases, not just in music but in general, have been completely landscape changed by a couple of people talking about it on the internet.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

Yeah, I mean, it and there's a ton of podcasts that have actually been able to, you know, like get the right evidence and and give it to the right person that that can actually either a reopen the case or can actually you know run the lead on it and and stuff like that. Right. Um, yeah, I mean I think it's yeah, like exactly like what you said, it's great for for stuff like that where like you you can really use every resource at the tip of your fingers. Um I was gonna I I completely forgot what I was gonna say. I was gonna, it was something along that. Oh, have you ever seen they had there's this show on Hulu that's exactly what happens is it's uh three people in an apartment building start uh a true crime podcast. Yeah, a crime that happened in their building.

SPEAKER_03 17:40

It's wasn't uh Selena Gomez is on that show, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:43

And Steve Martin and Martin Short Martin Short, yeah. Only murders in the building or something like that. Yeah, it was it's a the first season's great. I haven't watched all the seasons. The first season's great, though. Um, but it's it's I mean, fictional, but it's exactly like that. They they start a podcast and they solve a murder that happened in their building through the podcast.

SPEAKER_03 18:04

Do you think what do you think that says about the um not judicial system per se, but like the policing system in the 90s and and prior? Like, I I don't want to I don't want to necessarily say that it was lazy, but like I feel like it was one of those like all right, well we don't know what happened, so that's it. Like I feel like they didn't they didn't take the extra steps on a lot of this of uh investigations uh are concerned. Uh I feel like uh the system kind of I'm trying to find like a more like politically correct way to say what I'm trying to say, but like I don't want to call it laziness, but it kind of is laziness. Like, how did how did we have a system in the 90s and 80s and 70s where they were just like, all right, well, I guess that's that man.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Let's move on. Like, like I said, I don't know what goes into a hundred percent, you know, closing a case, reopening a case. Like, I don't know what that process is. And I'd be really interested, like I'm I'm more saying it of a of like uh I'm interested in in kind of learning what that process is so that I can understand. So, like, you know, for future stuff, we maybe we can understand of oh, they are in the process of opening this, like even for this, we don't know. Like, maybe they are, maybe we just don't know. Maybe that process actually does take a long amount of time. But to answer that, I mean what what what you were kind of saying, I I understand exactly what you're what you're saying. I don't know, we just don't like know where their headspace at or where it was at. I I I agree that I don't think, you know, from a standpoint of being able to look back on this to say there wasn't any doubt here. Like I I and and maybe that's you know, maybe that's just because we do have all of this other technology and all of this other stuff at at at the tip of our fingers to kind of you know look at everything and other people to discuss it and other people to to bring up more stuff that goes, yeah, that doesn't make sense. Like maybe we're just you know, that's that is you know what we've grown used to and accustomed to and and stuff like that. So it's like way more obvious. It's almost like, you know, we're almost taking for granted having all this access and having other people that can kind of bounce a theory and and we turn things into like this, you know, crowd-funded kind of not crowd-funded, but cra crowd-collected, you know, theories and and stuff like that, that that we can kind of more you know get a little bit further than like you know, one police department could, or you know, one investigator could, and stuff like that. So yeah, I I know exactly what you're saying, though. It's frustrating to go, really, really, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:12

I mean, no doubt again. If it was like a drug lord in Alabama, I could understand kind of just being like, well, sucks, man. I don't know, it is what it is. It's Kirk Cobain, like it's the equivalent of John Lennon, which also John Lennon's another one that we could go over. Like, yeah, it's just this idea of like, all right, I guess that's case closed. It's like, what?

Who Could Have Done It Allegedly

SPEAKER_00 21:39

Well, uh, but yeah, so I I am not gonna get frustrated at the I don't know when they actually officially close the case, but the 90s cops that closed the case. I'm not gonna officially get it frustrated at them. I would be more frustrated at the people now if there is like, you know, and and this we may not know, we may not have a follow-up to this follow-up for you know a year or two years or something like that. Cause like I said, we don't know that process of what it is like to reopen it, or even more so on that what amount of evidence you need to be able to, you know, start the process of of reopening something? Is it just discretion? Like I could literally say. I think it was a murder. And then they can like, if I convince the right person, they reopen it. Or do I have to like really bring in, do I have to go to these people that did these forensic studies and say, like, okay, what do we got? What is like, what can we do without a shadow of doubt that, or put in a shadow of doubt to reopen this case? Right. But I will be more frustrated at the Seattle Police Department if this never gets reopened than I was at the 90s uh Seattle Police Station for closing it in the first place, like type of thing.

SPEAKER_03 22:57

One fun thing that comes out of all of this, though, on the last episode, we couldn't really because when you when you talk about cases like this, you have to base it off of the facts at hand, and we couldn't really dive into the details of like who may have done it because technically it was ruled a suicide. Now fair game. So who do you think if somebody had done it? Who do you think may could have possibly done it?

SPEAKER_00 23:29

Allegedly.

SPEAKER_03 23:31

Allegedly.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Like flash allegedly up on the screen as much as a bigger one. I mean, look, I don't know. We're both thinking it, but I know, and I don't want to be the one to say it. I mean what is the statistic for the spouse always does it?

SPEAKER_03 23:54

Oh, isn't it isn't it something crazy? It's I'm gonna Google it real quick, but I think it's something crazy like it's a high percentage.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

So I'm just I without saying it, I'm just saying that that's probably my pick. I also think like, you know, there was things to gain, you know, that may have not been gained had their relationship ever been apart.

SPEAKER_03 24:25

Well this statistic is crazy. Approximately 15% of all global homicides are committed by an intimate partner. Out of that 15%, 50% of those homicides were committed by the female spouse of the uh 40 to 50 percent of the victims are killed by their female partners.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

You're making me real nervous to ever want to date again. That's a wild.

SPEAKER_03 25:01

Just letting you know, like that's a wild statistic.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

Yeah. That I didn't even know it was that high. I just knew it was like they always jokingly say that on like Brooklyn 99 or or any of the like the cop drama shows and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 25:14

It's always it's always the the spouse.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

It's always the spouse. Yeah, so I knew the per I knew there had to be like a decent percentage. I didn't know it was 15. What's crazy is homicides. Yeah, what's crazy is you you hear 15, you're like 15 doesn't sound 15 worldwide.

SPEAKER_03 25:34

Yeah, all homicides in the world that includes like gang-related murders, that includes vehicular homicides, like that's a large percentage. Yeah, that's well so I just think that her name rhymes with Shortney. That's all I'm saying. Allegedly.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

Allegedly, allegedly, it's always the spouse.

SPEAKER_03 26:05

Allegedly. Wouldn't it wouldn't it be crazy if after all of this time it comes out and it's like just a random like fan or like his or his like like maid? Because I know the maid service was there allegedly during so that would yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:27

I mean, well, you you brought up Lennon. Lennon got shot by uh a fan. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well who was the other the female pop star, yeah. Well, who was the other the the female uh pop star? Why can't I think of her name?

SPEAKER_03 26:41

Oh, Selena. Yeah, Selena. That one was definitely a fan. That was a fan. Lennon's was definitely if it was a fan, his name was Big Brother.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Yeah. Yes. I but I'm just saying, allegedly.

SPEAKER_03 26:55

Allegedly.

SPEAKER_00 26:56

So I guess it's not out of the question. What's more out of the question is that it happened at his own house inside, with I I mean, I I'm assuming there was no forced entry or anything crazy. Because they they would have had to have actually ruled it a homicide if there was signs of any kind of struggle, forced entry, anything like that.

SPEAKER_03 27:21

So yeah, that was a big part of it too, right? Is like the the scene is almost like staged perfectly for a Hollywood murder. It was like cleaned up, tidy, like it didn't it didn't screen cleaning crew, yeah. Well, okay, maybe that theory is that theory's looking a little better, actually. Allegedly, allegedly, um yeah, that that's an interesting one, man. That I didn't think about that in particular. That uh it could have been a fan, like maybe a fan followed him home from oh, what if he didn't check out a rehab alone?

Industry Motives And The Note Theory

SPEAKER_00 28:08

That's see, that's exactly what I was about to say, and that's why I stopped myself until you finished. I like that you were thinking the exact same thing because what I was saying is it could have been not somebody that he was like in close circles with, but he brought them in, so that's why there's no struggle, that's why there's no door, like forced entry, there's no anything. Somebody's in there with he let them in. Right. Yeah. That could be also it's still all signs point to there's some sort of doubt, and it could it like should not have been closed case, like yeah, you know what I mean? Like, no matter what, like no matter what, the steps still put some doubt in there. Like, there's no step that goes, oh well, you're right, case closed. Like, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 28:57

Like they okay, here's here's the wildest one though. If the government had done it, what do you think their motive was to allegedly assassinate Kirk O'Bain?

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Let me ask you this though. Don't you think if the government did it, they would do drug overdose or homicide or uh drug drug overdose or like heart attack?

SPEAKER_03 29:22

Like I mean, I don't know, man, because look at JFK.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Yeah, but I just feel like they had a layup, they had somebody that was, you know, has all had all already OD'd. Like, you know what I mean? And he was it was it was in the news that he was trying to go to rehab and and stuff like that. So they had a case closed, is what I'm saying. Like, oh yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 29:51

So and they also could have they could have laced the heroin. They could have, I mean, they would have known that he was trying to get heroin, they could have laced that heroin and guaranteed the job. There were a ton of ways they could have gone about it.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

That's that's why I'm saying like that's what I'm saying. Like, and and I'll look, I'll go hypothetical all day. We we can talk about you know why why they might have, but all I'm saying is just to that point, I think if the if if it was like a government thing, I think they would have just used what they already had, like meaning drugs, drug overdose, boom, like case closed. Because that that would have been I if I'm the government and I'm the shadow government and I'm trying to do something behind, I'm gonna go past like the easiest case close that I can think of. And it's like you know what I mean? Like he's he literally is leaving rehab. All right, he tries it, and it's like that that that fatal flaw of people that do try you know uh like drugs again after they leave rehab, they use too much too quick because that's what they used to use, and it was like too high of a level for for them, and it ends up being their the the fatal drug overdose.

SPEAKER_03 31:07

Yeah, that's that's very, very true. So I I also can't think of like a reason why. You know what I mean? If the government were involved, like he wasn't necessarily outspoken right like on government issues, really. He was outspoken about like the music industry for sure. Um that also could be, I mean, the music industry has done it before, so yeah. I mean, didn't did he possibly murder somebody?

SPEAKER_00 31:45

I yeah, there they allegedly, allegedly, allegedly. Um, yeah, there's there's multiple like real shady things in the music industry, like it in like record companies and and yeah, there's there's a lot.

SPEAKER_03 32:01

Um yeah, could it could have been uh what record label was he on? Was he on RCA or Capital? It was one or the other. I wanna say Capital, but I don't know for a fact capital Capital sounds correct, that's what I was leaning towards. Um, but I also don't know for sure. But it could have been could have been his label.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

You know what would be really crazy if that ended up coming out true? Because we do we have we brought this up the first episode, and and you know, it I know it's in the notes here. Is the kind of differences in in parts of the the suicide note? What if his original note was his note to like everybody that the label? The label, but like to fans that he was stopping, and the label found out about the note, and that's why it looks like it's changed because it is changed from uh I'm ending my music career to I'm ending my life career.

SPEAKER_03 32:55

Like oh that's a good that's a really good theory, actually. Yeah, holy crap. That would explain that would explain a lot of the messiness too, yeah. Um on just not double checking their their steps because that's the other thing, too, is like even though spousal homicide is so high, I feel, and I and I could be completely wrong on this, but I do feel that spouse homicides you typically involve a lot more planning and effort and like backtracking and checking your steps. Like I don't know that that one could that's a good theory that it could have been the industry got a hold of the note and said, Hey, this is not gonna fly.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

Right.

SPEAKER_03 33:45

Maybe they gave him an ultimatum and he you know started to refuse, and they sent somebody in as an enforcer.

SPEAKER_00 33:53

Well, the other thing is our original could still be because she was also in the music industry just saying they were they on the same label. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 34:08

I'm gonna say that real quick.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

My my my my limited knowledge of the alleged uh music project is uh they were on the same label.

SPEAKER_03 34:28

Oh now it's starting to lean even more into it. Okay, so they're on the same label. She she could have she could have found the note. Maybe she went to the label and said, Hey, this is going on, probably trying to further her career and say, you know, you're gonna lose Nirvana, so you might as well kind of push hole a little more. And maybe they were like, No, we're gonna see if we can get Kurt to uh take his statement back and and and maybe you know come back in and maybe we'll offer him the XYZ. Maybe she knew the offer, got upset about what they were gonna plan on offering him. They were already kind of dicey, anyways, so the relationship was rocky. Uh, she definitely had some jealousy tendencies, so hmm, okay. I'm still heavily convinced.

Wild Theories And Dave Grohl Talk

SPEAKER_00 35:23

Yeah, yeah. That just happened so that's the other thing. That's just us spitballing here. Like, you're telling me there's not anyone in Seattle PD that that is like not just sitting there going, well, maybe like three episodes from now, we're gonna be coming in here with full suits and like coffee and like detective badges. Look, I am I am all for like I think I think um detectives and and like private investigators, but also like detectives in child. I think it's so interesting to be able to, you know, work on a case and and kind of do that kind of thing. Because you like you're really like, I mean, we we have TV shows about that, we have movies about that, we have games like that, but they're doing this in in real life and they're using all the stuff that they have to put together, and it's it's fascinating. So, like it's almost like on the other side of this, what if we ever what if we got a guest of like that was like an investigator or or a detective or or something like that to kind of like shed some insight, because I'm sure they they wouldn't be like, oh yeah, they they they should be opening it, but like at least they could like walk us through the process of like what we're not understanding because we're seeing all this from the outside of things and going, oh, that's obvious. Like, but maybe it's like like maybe there there are these like all these steps, like I keep saying, but like I'm just I'm kind of fascinated to kind of see it from their point of view to go like what was that scene telling you that we don't understand with with untrained eyes, type of thing. Like, and and look, allegedly, this could all be like you know what we said, it could be the craziest thing in the world. It could have been, you know, the record company that paid money for all of this to be hush-hush and and all this stuff. There is no wrong answer. I mean, the case is still closed, so I guess there is a wrong answer, but if the case ends up getting reopened, there is no wrong answer as of now. Um, but it's just it's so interesting that we can look at this and go, this it seems it seems very doubtful. Um, but then somebody that's professionally trained can look at this and go, nope, that's that's I a hundred percent like it's it's just so that interests me so much, like on how two different perspectives on the so I I say I say we do a part three where we bring on a Seattle detective that's working on the case as a guest. Well, that would be awesome. I mean, I'll take any detective, or I mean, even a private eye, like I understand. I mean, they still have to have the same kind of you know, I don't even know the same kind of skill, the same kind of like uh uh knowledge and and and I don't even know, like, because I know you go to school to to learn this, so trained, learned, I I I don't know what the right term. I I feel bad. I don't know what the right term would be for it, for the skills that they had to obtain to be able to be a a private detective or uh a detective, like for a police department or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 38:58

Um the most outlandish conspiracy theory that I can come up with. Dave Grohl allegedly did it.

SPEAKER_00 39:07

Oh, don't throw Dave Grohl under the bus.

SPEAKER_03 39:09

Now hear me out. Hear me out. Okay, okay. So he we know now, after years and years, that he did present a foo fighter song to Kurt, and Kurt rejected it, which ended up being one of the largest hits of the Foo Fighter's career. Just saying, it was presented as like a hey, this should be a Nirvana song, and he was like, Nah, I don't think this is a good idea, but he also was very controlling, didn't want Dave to do his own thing, right? So what if he checked him out of rehab? They walk back to the house together, they start discussing things, he lays out his plan to quit music to Dave, and Dave's like, Well, I I need Nirvana, because at that point he didn't he wasn't ready to start his own thing, so he was like, I need Nirvana. So I mean but so the only thing Dave did lie about an affair recently, he did just saying that one's not a legend.

SPEAKER_00 40:16

The only thing with that is it's almost like in the same sense, you kind of counteract what what you say, because like if he wanted to be able to do his own thing, and the only way for it to end would be if Nirvana ended, then if they then if you know Kirk came to him and said, I'm thinking about ending you know my musical career, then he'd be like, Okay, cool, and then immediately go do Foo Fight, like you know what I mean. Like, I I forget what I I both love and hate TikTok because I see I I've catered my algorithm so well that stuff will come up and there'll be like awesome clips of things, and then all retain that knowledge and then never be able to like say where I got it and credit a source or or anything like that. But I I I know like when this first came out that there might be some more evidence that that you know that points more to homicide versus suicide. I was seeing clips on TikTok, and somebody said, like, you know, foo fighters were gonna eventually happen either way, because even if Kurt hadn't passed away, you know, that he was going to end. It wasn't gonna be like he he was gonna stop doing music. It wasn't gonna be like, oh, you know, Nirvana, the longest running, you know, grunge rock band. Like it wasn't going to ever be forever, type type of thing. So it was gonna be a you know, when were Foo Fighters gonna come out, not if they ever came out, type of thing. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 41:56

I I I would say I think the only thing that would be different about the Foo Fighters if Kurt had survived, um, would be the tonality shift. I don't it was such a sonic change, and it kind of landscaped what we know as like the 2000s rock influence. Yeah, I I truly think that they would have kind of played it more safe and stayed in that grunge element because they would have had Kurt's backing from him kind of being out of music, so Dave would have been bouncing ideas off of him, and he did respect Kurt, so I think that he would have not taken the chances musically that he did due to his input on those songs. I really think that is the major change is uh he he had a chance to kind of experiment and put out something that no one had really done before. It was kind of the end of the grunge movement.

SPEAKER_00 42:51

Yeah, I mean, I really like that first Foo Fighters album, and now I our conversations just could go forever on this, but yeah, I love that that one, and you can hear him taking chances, but you can also hear, you know, where like maybe this one was the song that that he showed Kurt and was rejected, type of thing, because it does it sounds very similar to type of thing, or something along the lines I could see on like uh you know, but uh yeah, I mean I I like I like that first album in general a lot, but like for all the cows, I think, yeah, we're we're getting into you know Dave doing his own thing there and stuff.

SPEAKER_03 43:31

Yeah. Uh now have you um have you ever listened to Kurt Solo stuff? No, like his like unrecorded or not unrecorded, but like unreleased. So I have it on vinyl. Um it is dare I say the worst piece of art I've ever listened to. It's it's horrifying. It's it's truly terrible. It's like it's like when you have someone who's like, hey, I think I want to be a musician, and they present you with a song, and you're like, no, it's good, man. You're yeah, you're figuring stuff out, you're working it out. Like, it's not my cup of tea, but it's somebody's cup of tea. It's that level. Oh, it's crap. Horrible, horrible. Wow. Um, and I think that truly Dave Grohl is kind of what cemented Nirvana as. A band. I think if they didn't get Dave Grohl, Nirvana would not have pushed through. I don't I don't think that anyone would have known who Nirvana is today. Really? Without Dave Grohl, truly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:38

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 44:39

And I and I love Nirvana. And I think Kurt was an incredible musician with the group. I think he was a very, very talented writer. Um, and he was a purist. He really like refused to accept industry influence in his music. He said, no, I like my sound. I'm gonna do my sound. And I think that's important. However, that album sucks, man. I mean, it is dog sh poopy. Wow. It's bad.

SPEAKER_00 45:11

Wow. I've never heard it.

SPEAKER_03 45:14

I I yeah, you'll have to you'll have to check it out. It's I think it's called the Montage of Heck. I think that's what it's called. It is it is something. It is something to behold. Wow. It makes the it makes the never mind album. Have you heard the nevermind album like demo that they did? No. Yeah, so so you can listen to that too. It's awesome. Um, but it makes that look like uh like Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon. Like it makes it, it makes it look like a masterpiece. It's crazy. Anyways, um no, I think I think Corny Love did it, man. Allegedly, I yeah, allegedly. I I tried to give like every outlandish answer that I could. Allegedly, she did it.

SPEAKER_01 46:03

Well, yeah.

Courtney Love Theory And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_00 46:04

I mean, look, we can we can, you know, not case closed, we can we can, you know, I guess say the opposite. We can case open this, um, and and say, like, look, I think no matter what, no matter who you think actually did it, there is enough odd things that raises doubt in the situation that it it was just a textbook, you know, suicide type of thing. You know what I mean? So it's just like whatever that process is, let's let's let's figure this out. Like, let's let's reopen this and like actually figure this out. But like, yeah, I mean, if if we're getting down to like the the the the nitty nitty gritty of alleged, I I think yes, because I think there are multiple pathways that still would lead to her being involved in it. Like, you know what I mean? Like, e even if it isn't the most simple of she did it because she was jealous, or she did it because she wanted money or or something like that, it could you then can go higher, and you can be like, you know, the exactly what we said, the record company found out that he was thinking about quitting music. They were, you know, trying to convince him, and when they couldn't, they contacted her. Like, you know what I mean? Like, there's just there's a lot of different avenues that still point to her being involved with it.

SPEAKER_03 47:36

What I'd look up. What I want to look up right now is Kirk Cobain's daughter.

SPEAKER_00 47:43

Where is she on all of this? Is my question. Good question. And she will be on our part three. No, I dude, that'd be crazy. I, you know, that is the the one. I wonder if she has the ability to reopen the case. Because, like I said, originally originally, like, I number one, I don't know the process, but I also I don't want to sound disrespectful. I've you know, so like I wonder if if she came out and said, Hey, I would this is my dad, I would like this case reopened. I wonder if that supersedes like everything type type of thing. Or if there's still a process in it. I don't, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 48:28

So she didn't put anything out in 2025, but in 2024, um she put out a statement on his death day saying the lesson about death he gave me can only come from the lived experience of losing someone. So she, I mean, she didn't really get to know her dad, you know what I mean? She was like, I think two when he passed away, two or three. Um so yeah, that's that's gotta be crazy. But I I really would like to see her have a response right in all of this that's going on right now. I I think that uh yeah, that hearing from her now more than ever would kind of help us find closure as music fans, too.

SPEAKER_00 49:23

Respectfully, like we you know mean that it in the most respectful way that we can buy because I mean she's she's innocent of this whole thing, like you know, like you said, she lost her dad at two years old, or or you know, if she was two or three, I'm not sure exactly. But but yeah, um, yeah, it resp respectfully, you should you should put out a statement.

SPEAKER_03 49:45

Um, yeah, yeah. If you want to, if you want. Because I what it for me, what it would mean is if if she comes out and she says, guys, I just want to honor my dad's memory and just move past this. At that point, it's like, cool, case days closed. We can discuss theories all day long and leave it alone forever. But if she comes out and she says, This new evidence kind of fuels me with the want to find out more, I say that should be more than enough to open somebody get to work.

SPEAKER_00 50:19

That's what I'm wondering. Like, does that like is that instantly like does that reopen it, or does that like just add on to this additional, like, new, new updated evidence? And it's like, okay, now we have to show this case and the reasons why we have doubt to to try to reopen it to a judge, and then the he still gets to decide, yes or no? Like, I just don't know. I don't know that process. I think yeah, interesting. Like, to find we should we should figure that out because I think it would be interesting we know that process because I'm sure it'll come up again, like in other in other percent.

SPEAKER_03 50:52

Yeah, yeah. We should we should definitely have like a resident like detective and a resident lawyer like readily available to to have on the show at any given time.

SPEAKER_00 51:04

Instead of phone a friend, it's phone phone one of those down, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:10

Uh well that is the follow-up, guys. Uh, that was everything that's come out so far about the case. Um, I know we didn't dive like specifically into the extreme details of it, but it's pretty much the exact same thing we've talked about. Is all of the things that we brought up in the last episode, they're also coming out and saying, Yeah, that's crazy. So who knows? Maybe in the next month or so it comes out and they say, Yeah, we're opening it back up. Um we we really hope that you enjoyed round two of the Kurt Cobain files here on the dark side of music.

SPEAKER_01 51:53

Bye, everybody.

SPEAKER_03 51:57

Uh