Dean Mom

 Lo Hi talks with her mom about her own transition, and her mom’s time as a middle-high dean of students. 

Transcript

Schools and Gun Violence

Speaker 1 0:04

Hello world , hello here . This is clearly incorrect .

Speaker 2 0:15

That's what a mother's job is . You know , you don't reconcile that in your brain . In a day I was an extremely strict dean of students . Nobody kept getting their thoughts and prayers either , buddy , we used to laugh about how many girlfriends you had . Well , i was being a little shit .

Speaker 1 1:07

Before we get going today , i have to ask you are you ready ? Because I did something that I think is pretty scary to most of us . I interviewed my mother . Yeah , do you remember to like subscribe rate review ? you know . Send a link to a friend , yeah , yeah , you know , just pick out an episode they like and like whoosh . Just hit that share button and there it goes . There it goes . Maybe you know post it on your social media . You know that that'd be cool . You can always email me at queery incorrect at gmailcom with questions , comments , concerns , i don't care whatever . Shoot me a message . If you'd like to support queer media , please make a donation on Cash App . Just follow the support the show link . I'm going to drop a content warning for this one . We talk about gun violence in here , so if that's not your thing right now , i understand . With a youthful exuberance , i give you Dean mom . Hello everybody , welcome to the show . I have one hell of a treat for you . My mother is here .

Speaker 2 2:55

Hello everybody .

Speaker 1 2:56

Mother , what do you want people to call you ? Should we name you ?

Speaker 2 3:00

What would you like to call me ?

Speaker 1 3:01

We can say your name .

Speaker 2 3:02

Okay , that's fine .

Speaker 1 3:03

Linda , linda My mother's name is Linda .

Speaker 2 3:07

Yeah , I've used that once or twice .

Speaker 1 3:09

I'm not just bringing my mom on for the fun of it , but it is pretty fun . She looks so nervous right now . It's great .

Speaker 2 3:15

I'm not nervous .

Speaker 1 3:17

She says that , but she has a grin . Anyways , my mother was the Dean of Students . Tell me about your job at the school forever .

Speaker 2 3:29

I was the Dean of Students at a performing arts school for 20 years . In that 20 years , i was head of student services , dean of Students , head of I don't know just about everything I think . So , yeah , that's what I did for 22 years .

Speaker 1 3:49

I'm bringing this up because , well , it's a performing arts school and it's in Florida and it's a conservative area , so it's kind of a queer magnet or even just a place for parents who don't want their kids to grow up with like rednecks .

Speaker 2 4:03

Yes , when we originally opened because we're a very diverse area it was called the Great White Escape because everyone thought that the school was only going to accept Caucasian children , and it's actually not what happened at all .

Speaker 1 4:21

No , it's a very diverse place , very diverse . I was actually in the first class there ever . Yes , i went to seventh and eighth grade there , which I believe you took me out of Lincoln . Well , because of the shooting .

Speaker 2 4:37

Because of the shooting . It's the reason I had nothing to do with the area or the population of Lincoln And I think what I found out was that a child's records were I think it was seven weeks behind the child being rolled in school And the student was very violent and should have never been allowed in . And actually there was a girl that we all knew very well . A bullet went I mean she felt it pass her ear And her husband's cousin hit under a desk . Lauren put a waist basket on her head And that was .

Speaker 1 5:17

I did .

Speaker 2 5:17

You most certainly did . And what was funny about it ? it was one of those wire ones . We've laughed about that for years . You don't remember doing that .

Speaker 1 5:27

I remember getting under my desk and not the waist basket but a wire like book holder .

Speaker 2 5:32

Maybe it was a wire book Like my head getting stuck on that . Yes , so that's been something that we've laughed about for many years . But yes , when the charter school opened , i immediately enrolled her , just so that I just didn't want to be part of that , and I remember how long ago that was . That was a very unusual occurrence .

Speaker 1 5:55

That was two years before Columbine , I believe So .

Speaker 2 6:00

It's been a while .

Speaker 1 6:01

It's been a while , but I say that because this was really before gun violence .

Speaker 2 6:07

Well , it's any type of issue . Yeah , it wasn't what it is in America . We just totally freaked . All the parents , we all totally freaked about this . Yeah .

Speaker 1 6:16

So back then they didn't talk to us about it at all .

Speaker 2 6:22

Yeah , but nobody kept you in their thoughts and prayers either , buddy , that's .

Speaker 1 6:25

Well , I'm at the school .

Speaker 2 6:27

It's like it wasn't a thing .

Speaker 1 6:29

They didn't even acknowledge it . They didn't talk about it on the announcements . We were just left to deal with it on our own .

Speaker 2 6:36

Well , that's because no one knew the appropriate way to handle this And I believe as parents we all receive letters about it Back then . They actually would send you stuff through the mail about , you know , making sure we spoke to our children and made sure they were okay with things . I don't even think they offered counselors back then to y'all at school , that was . It was put on the parents to make sure , which that's fine I mean , that's our job But it was made clear that we need to make sure our kids were okay .

Speaker 1 7:07

To follow this up . It's slightly uncomfortable , but I think it's relevant . When Ken Ellis Yes , so , ken Ellis was a teacher . I worked at that school for a while , in many capacities too , especially through college , and Ken Ellis was a teacher there And he was murdered in a robbery .

Speaker 2 7:28

Gone wrong ?

Speaker 1 7:29

Yes , But , we didn't actually know that for many years We just knew that somebody shot him .

Speaker 2 7:35

It wasn't it was about . They closed that up in about a year .

Speaker 1 7:39

I didn't .

Speaker 2 7:40

Yes , it was a game . The group of teenage boys were seeing how many houses they could break into And I , you know , i'm not positive of all these facts . This happened years ago , but anyway , he just ended up getting shot in the game , basically .

Speaker 1 8:01

What I heard , yeah , was that there was some big event going on that was distracting the police in that county , and so they , these two young guys , decided to see how many houses they could rob .

Speaker 2 8:16

And Ken .

Speaker 1 8:17

Ellis taught history and he also instructed Taekwondo , And so when someone knocked on his door with a gun , as I was told and I don't know if you could know this or not , but he took his fighting stance and so the guy just shot him .

Speaker 2 8:32

I have never heard that , but .

Speaker 1 8:34

I might have read that .

Speaker 2 8:36

You might have read that . I have not heard that now . You have to remember that I was part of dealing with his wife and his family And actually one of the hardest things I ever had to do was close his room because I had to go through every paper in it . So you know , make sure that his children receive some and his wife and former students there were so many . He was well loved and respected .

Speaker 1 9:05

And I very much loved Ken Ellis .

Speaker 2 9:07

Yes , Everybody did . You know , the man never raised his voice And he taught children Taekwondo and made them responsible And most of his kids that he had for about seven years . Those kids have done things with their lives and they've turned out overwhelmingly to be good people .

Speaker 1 9:27

Yeah .

Speaker 2 9:28

I mean they really have , And he was part of that .

Speaker 1 9:32

I remember very distinctly at the service When I was very honored to work the service . I felt that was nice . But his students came and did a Taekwondo presentation . I don't think I've ever seen like it was perfect . They were so serious .

Speaker 2 9:52

And they promoted him to the next level . Those instructors came and promoted him to the next level of black belt , which was seven or something , i don't remember It was really high . This was many , many years ago .

Speaker 1 10:05

But anyways , I bring this up because this was in the early 2000s . Yeah 15 years , or not 15 years later , maybe from the Lincoln event , but I remember that school was descended upon by mental health workers .

Speaker 2 10:26

Oh yeah , But now the county sent those And by that time things had changed in just that few number of years there , because you had colobine happen and different other things And violence in schools was just , it was becoming a predominant thing . That just was happening all the time . My training at that time I went through training every year about how I need to deal with violence in schools . So I was in charge of the safety of the students and teachers and the staff in the school And so I was sent every year for training and to be updated . And I mean some of those trainings were ran by the FBI and Homeland Security and agencies like that were involved in these And you would pick and choose which one you wanted to go to for your school's needs . So , yes , I had a lot of training in that area and the training were full to capacity . If you wanted to take a certain class , buddy , you better be there and get there , because at that point everybody was training their administrative staff .

Speaker 1 11:41

Yeah , so that's , yes , all right . Well , there was that arc Arc , yes , i know . Yeah , I felt that was good to talk about because we do have kind of a personal life experience with that change in society . But also I want to talk to you about the queerness of the school and queer kids And I don't know what are your thoughts on just that at all . Do you have anything to say ?

Speaker 2 12:07

About the school and how they .

Speaker 1 12:10

All right . So when I went there , People's life choices . People's life choices Yeah .

Speaker 2 12:14

Well , that was a thing . The people who opened the school were theater people . They've been , you know , and their children were always in dance and theater , and you had lifelong dance teachers on your board of directors . So you had teachers that were gay , which was pretty much unheard of for a teacher to be openly gay in a school back then .

Speaker 1 12:40

Mr G , the very first year we had a gay teacher .

Speaker 2 12:43

Yeah , and as the teachers became more comfortable that was actually never a thing there , and that's when the school opened . The idea was that everybody anybody who was interested in having an education in the arts as well as an academic education could come to this school , and it didn't Nothing else mattered . You know , race wasn't an issue , preference wasn't an issue , one of those things . It was just like let's all come here , get along and do our thing , and that's exactly what happened for probably the first 10 years that the school was open .

Speaker 1 13:24

Which is wonderful .

Speaker 2 13:25

I mean well for those 10 years .

Speaker 1 13:26

For those 10 years , yeah , if you can get it to stay . But yeah , i remember . So I went there for two years and went there for seventh grade , which was their first year open , and it was just sixth and seventh . So the next year they extended to eighth grade and I went there , and then after that they waited a year to go up And so I went to a regular high school . But I don't think I would have been so confident and self-assured in so many things in regular high school , having not had that experience of things like not being called names for being , you know , not manly and shit like that .

Speaker 2 14:07

Well , you had a brother who would have shoved somebody's head into a locker if they said something to you too .

Speaker 1 14:12

Yeah , But they were like Carmen was gone by the time I got into high school .

Speaker 2 14:16

That's true .

Speaker 1 14:18

I didn't go to school with them .

Speaker 2 14:19

That's right .

Speaker 1 14:21

Yeah .

Speaker 2 14:21

But you had a friend . You had a friend that would have .

Speaker 1 14:25

Oh yeah , who , Keith ? Oh yeah , i had plenty of friends that would in the long run .

Speaker 2 14:30

But that's how .

Speaker 1 14:31

I fit in And in the end it was just kind of by being nice to everybody .

Speaker 2 14:35

What's a better way to fit in , though ? I mean , being nice to people is how we all should act .

Speaker 1 14:42

It is All right . I don't know . I was hoping there would be more out of school queerness , but Well , we can .

Speaker 2 14:50

What happened there is because it wasn't an issue People who had made these decisions , even though they're

Creating a Supportive Environment in Education

Speaker 2 14:58

young . What you found is is in that atmosphere , the parents . Over my years I have helped children tell a lot of parents that they were gay And the reactions I've seen have usually been favorable . I mean , they didn't always like it , but overall they would end up being supportive . But you also have to remember it wasn't a kid at 14 at home telling the Redneck dad either . The Redneck dad was sitting in an office with an adult who understood what the child was going through . We had other people that were more than willing to sit in if needed . So I think it was presented to them in a very positive way that this wasn't going to affect anything except the child's choice . I think because of the way it was presented most of the time And I had many of those parents come back and talk to me after the initial conversation It wasn't one of the least favorite things I had to do .

Speaker 2 16:09

I can tell you I always felt like I was being helpful because so many kids were so afraid to tell their parents . I mean , they were just petrified And I would say well , do your parents ever say things about ? are they prejudiced against gay people or are they prejudiced against black people ? And what's get this conversation going about ? what you actually hear at home . And sometimes before the parents get there , you could get the student relaxed a little bit , because they'd never heard their parents .

Speaker 2 16:38

They had just decided that telling them this was going to be a horrible experience . But they really didn't have anything to base that on And to say that they were all favorable . That's absolutely not true either , but I think it was all the way it was presented . But a lot of the younger gay children would go oh , they're going to disown me And I would always talk to them about what leads you to that assumption . Why do you think that's going to be the outcome ? And I also let them know that if that was the outcome , there were other things we could do that they weren't going to be kicked out on the street . Often children ended up in our homes . So because we were in that type of environment , you had a staff there that if a child had that sort of need , it was taken care of .

Speaker 2 17:31

Once again , i just wish all schools could be like that , but I live in Florida and , as you know , there will be no schools in Florida like that anymore , so which makes me sick to my stomach . But we actually had , as years went on and the fact that no one cared , we had transgender kids on prom court . I think one year we even had a transgender prom king .

Speaker 1 17:56

I believe so .

Speaker 2 17:57

And nobody cared . But it was because of the way the school started . It was all about the beginning . No one cared from the very beginning . what we cared about was behavior . But , believe it or not , i was an extremely strict dean of students . I mean , i didn't take any crap from anybody . You came there . It was a privilege to walk through those doors , it was a privilege to be offered dance and art and music And other than that . that's what I wanted to care about . And if you did all of those things and went into English and sat down and behaved for your teacher , we were all good . And I am in touch with an unbelievable amount of my students to this day .

Speaker 1 18:40

I am too . Honestly . if anybody out there knows any of my old students , you can ask them . I was incredibly strict as well , but also very approachable and likeable , And I wasn't going to get you in trouble for things like you're a child . Everybody makes mistakes .

Speaker 1 18:57

Everybody has bad days . I mean that really started my teaching journey back in the days And the Peace Corps . I was an educator . I've worked in and around education so much And that's kind of what got me started And I do think it was helped by that kind of environment that existed at that time .

Speaker 2 19:17

It was an environment where you were expected to do what needed to be done , but you would be supported no matter what was going on .

Speaker 2 19:27

And so every student knew that . yes , they named me the compassionate hard-ass , but they all knew that you darn well better sit down and take your lunch tray to the trash can and not throw it on the floor . But on the other hand , if you didn't have food at home , you could come to my office and you'd darn sure have food at home . Your water bill would be paid , things like that . You're showering at your aunt's house . Well , we'll see if we can't work that out . So I think that that . what do I say ?

Speaker 1 20:05

the balance .

Speaker 2 20:06

The balance worked really well for our students .

Speaker 1 20:10

And teach like a champion . They call that warm , strict .

Speaker 2 20:12

Yeah , is that what I am Warm strict , warm strict .

Speaker 1 20:16

No , when I read those books when I was in the Peace Corps , it was amazing because like half of them were things that I had literally told other people to do as teaching techniques . So like I had them that well defined in my head , i just called them something else .

Speaker 2 20:33

Yeah .

Speaker 1 20:34

And it was really validated actually , and I imagine you would have a similar experience .

Speaker 2 20:41

It's just the way I think . It's just the way I think about everything . You know that , as a parent , you guys got away with murder , but there were certain things I expected you to do And we sat down and you ate the three of you ate dinner together at night . you took your bath , you went to bed and until you were teenagers and we just don't even need to talk- about that .

Speaker 2 21:09

You came from that organized . This is what we do next , which I think is what children need So a lot of love , a lot of playing , a lot of trips , a lot of everything . But you know , i expected my kids to behave .

Speaker 1 21:26

Well , I mean , I remember fondly going camping all the time .

Speaker 2 21:30

All the time .

Speaker 1 21:31

I know now , that was , you know , a money saving effort . It didn't have to be like I don't know that it was I have nothing but fond memories of this is what I'm saying .

Speaker 2 21:39

That was so much fun And we went with the same families all the time that had children y'all's age And we are from Florida and people like to camp , So it was just fun .

Speaker 1 21:50

Yeah , we did like once a month most of the year .

Speaker 2 21:52

And you know you guys learned a lot from that too . Most of the parents there were like minds where they wanted their kids to play . They wanted them to go out and have knives and , you know , make fire pits and build huts and stuff like that , without somebody up their butt all the time . you know And you know that's how you learn to survive .

Speaker 1 22:11

It is .

Speaker 2 22:12

And nowadays my God , you know .

Speaker 1 22:14

Well , it's like I was in Boy Scouts . I got lucky with my troop , yeah . But also if it wasn't for other , like anti-queerness stuff , i would love the Boy Scouts because I feel I had a really positive experience learning all those life skills . And then again I've had adventures in my life where I was confident in them , like I was so much more confident starting the Appalachian Trail Because I had had that experience and because of that experience it helped me in Peace Corps . I mean , i climbed Kilimanjaro . It's cool , you know I've done stuff .

Speaker 2 22:44

Well , that's what we do , is we build on our life's experiences And that's how it's supposed to work . Look how long your brother stayed in the Scouts . Yeah , And he was a cool guy , football player and all that nonsense at all . I don't mean that He actually loved that group of boys and they stayed together until you know they couldn't any longer . So , yeah , they were friends in their 30s . They're still friends .

Speaker 1 23:12

When Tristan had moved to Orlando or something and I was in high school , it was those friends of Tristan's that I knew from Scouts and that had known me as a child that bought me beer .

Speaker 2 23:28

This is a long time ago , i know .

Speaker 1 23:32

I mean , if someone's going to do it . It was like they bought me a six pack . Not enough to kill me . You know what I mean , Anyways . So thinking , all right , just how your mind works , and all that funness . Let's talk about what I've been building up to .

Speaker 2 23:47

Okay .

Speaker 1 23:48

When I came out to you . Now I know there's a lot of other shit going on .

Speaker 2 23:53

Yeah , a little bit .

Speaker 1 23:54

So I remember distinctly what you said , Do you ?

Speaker 2 23:58

Yeah .

Speaker 1 23:59

So tell everybody what happened from your perspective .

Speaker 2 24:02

Well , I was being a little shit from my perspective , not in a very good mood and walked behind me and said Mom , you know I'm trans , Is that how you remember it ?

Speaker 1 24:15

No .

Speaker 2 24:16

How do you remember it ?

Speaker 1 24:17

I remember picking you up from the airport and having pink hair and looking very different .

Speaker 2 24:25

And I gave you a hug and said , Mom , I'm trans . Now , you said it in the living room , didn't you ?

Speaker 1 24:31

I might have told you again later .

Speaker 2 24:32

You might have .

Speaker 1 24:33

But I've initially said it .

Speaker 2 24:36

But I do remember what I said when you told me . I said , you know , i don't care about that You said I love you .

Speaker 1 24:41

You know I don't care about that .

Speaker 2 24:43

You know I don't care about that And I don't , so I don't know why . but well , i guess I do know why

Transgender Identity and Family Acceptance

Speaker 2 24:50

. I mean , as a child , you were always extremely intelligent and you never quite . you always wanted to hang out with the adults And you never really clicked with kids your own age because you were smarter than , frankly . Do you remember going to ? I took you to a child psychologist to help you interact with children your own age .

Speaker 2 25:14

I do remember that , yeah , so we had all that And I'd never forget as long as I live . You could give you a math problem and you'd go like that and you'd go I'm figuring it out in my mouth And then you would , you know , make marks in front of you . And I asked you about it one day when you were a little bit older , because I don't think at that point you actually understood And you said you could see it when you took your finger and made the in the air . And that's how you were , from the time you were little , little little two years old . So I always knew that you were always interested in absolutely everything . You know , you had tons of girlfriends I did . Girls loved you And you were kind of geeky .

Speaker 2 26:05

So Carmen and I would always go . Well , it must be . His brains are attracted to his brains . You know , we used to laugh about how many girlfriends you had . You know , i think that I always knew that but I didn't know . Honest to God , i didn't . I mean , i knew but I didn't know what . How does that sound ? Is that right ?

Speaker 1 26:25

That fits exactly . My experience is that , like I knew , i wasn't like a regular dude in some way .

Speaker 2 26:31

Right .

Speaker 1 26:32

But I also knew I wasn't a gay man , and then I ran out of options .

Speaker 2 26:36

We'll see .

Speaker 1 26:37

You know , because at the time it wasn't a thing .

Speaker 2 26:40

Well , your sister and I did talk about you being gay , was that the thing ? And we both agreed that we didn't think that was it . And you know , to be honest with you , we never talked about you being transgender . We , we , and we never really talked a lot about the gay thing either , because Carmen's just like I am . She didn't care , she didn't care , so it was Carmen's best friends is a gay man .

Speaker 2 27:03

Yeah , oh yeah , that's absolutely true . But you know we didn't . It was just not a thing in our family to worry about things like that . But then my mother is about as open and liberal as a human being can be . She's 93 and my growing up her best friend she was a social worker . So her best friend was a black social worker and her other best friend was a gay male and his partner . So these these are things that in my life was never a thing at all .

Speaker 2 27:40

It's just this is . my mom was like that . However , her family is not like that at all , not even close . They are just horrible . So we'll not horrible . I don't want to say that either , but they were very much . I'll never hear this .

Speaker 1 27:54

They'll never hear this . Who ? I do not have that much reach . What do you mean ? Anybody who might know who we're talking about and feel offended . Oh , okay , yeah , don't worry about it .

Speaker 2 28:04

Yeah Well , okay , i don't want to offend anybody , but I have an aunt whose husband would sit out in the driveway In a lawn chair with a rifle , and he told me this himself . This isn't anything anybody and my brothers or sisters can dispute . Uncle Oral told me this himself because he had a black man that threw his paper in his driveway And he wanted to make sure that nothing went wrong . Yep , so my mom Made the choice not to be that kind of person , and I don't think my grandparents were really . I mean , if somebody's gay , they would have just lost their shit totally . But I think that you know they were products of the time .

Speaker 2 28:46

Yeah so you know that is what it is . But so , as I'm saying , is the way your sister is , i am . You know , we have to attribute to my mother , because she taught us that all people Are the same .

Speaker 1 28:58

I have been saying this so much and just yeah , like if you have love in your heart , you can start generations and generations and just so many people That have love in their heart . And even if you know like you struggle With with an iste or anism of hating somebody , yeah , don't show your kids . Lie about it to your kids . Let them only see the love and that's what they'll know .

Speaker 2 29:25

Yeah , i just think my mom , her mother , was a tyrant and I just think that she was going to make sure That she didn't carry on that in any way . And she did not . Was my childhood perfect ? by no stretch of the imagination . She was divorced . There were six of us . We were extremely poor , but what I did see is her go to work two and three jobs . What I did see was my older brother , who's seven years older than I , am stepping up and taking care . You know , in my next brother too , you know all my older siblings . They had a part in raising the younger ones and I just think that makes you more understanding About all of these different things . That nobody's world is perfect , you know , and from that it was one of your brothers that I was .

Speaker 1 30:08

I was worried about Um not accepting me when I came out . But Lydia talked to them and When I saw them I mean it was funny . They tried so hard , like they were thinking about pronouns so much They misgendered me like six times in a sentence , fumbling , trying not to , and I about died over laughing and I found myself Touched and that's like that was the person I was worried about in our family .

Speaker 2 30:36

Well , two of my brothers I was a little worried about abandoned . As far as I'm concerned , both of them have been great . Yeah , I mean , I mean absolutely , absolutely great , and I you know I will always Appreciate the fact .

Speaker 1 30:51

I don't even think Jim fucking has ever commented on it .

Speaker 2 30:53

Jim Don't care . Yeah , jim No care .

Speaker 1 30:58

Just Jim don't care . Jim , don't care Ray has been nothing but positive .

Speaker 2 31:03

Oh , and when I call you Lauren , i'm grandfather did uh , yeah , it's totally cool people . He'll say low .

Speaker 1 31:13

And if you , if you're listening , my mother will also occasionally misgender me . I was a boy in her life for 32 years . Yes she tries really hard not to . I totally okay , people . That's the point is that she tries . I do try yeah , you give it an honest effort , so what else do I care ?

Speaker 2 31:31

and um , i don't you know the all honesty , like that , i'm not thinking , it's just , it's what . I called you for 32 years . I I'm not even thinking about boy girl . Yeah , it doesn't have anything to do with that .

Speaker 1 31:48

Yeah , I'm just your kid .

Speaker 2 31:50

You're just my kid , so yeah , um , so You know I'm gonna say this to everybody . I've actually had to say this to some of students along the way . Is that Just because somebody misgendered you ? look at the person And understand . It's not always intentional . They're not always trying to prove a point , they just misgendered you . It's as simple as that . And it happens , not to say there's not a bunch of wicked people out there , but there's always two sides to everyone , man .

Speaker 1 32:20

I just think that yeah , give people a little grace . You never know , and sometimes someone trying and failing Is the best option you have at the moment . And so just Let them try , don't hate them .

Speaker 2 32:36

It's just like one of the things that Lauren's had to realize is that he was my male child . She was my male child for 32 years , but her brother . We lost her brother six years ago . So the only photographs that I have of Lauren With Tristan and Carmen is , you know , when she still was a male . So I can't get rid of this . I can't take this down for my own personal sanity . I have to have my three children together , and so that's how we do it , and I hope that doesn't bother me and the tiniest little bit .

Speaker 2 33:16

But , for my sanity . That has to happen .

Speaker 1 33:19

Also my thing is that I came out the year after you passed , and so Tristan only knew me as a brother and I know him as a brother to a brother , and I think that's actually a thing that several trans women feel like will be a little broy with each other , because we kind of miss it .

Speaker 2 33:35

Well , i understand that . I mean , he was so Touchy on you and you know , just big brother .

Speaker 1 33:43

He was my big brother .

Speaker 2 33:44

So , yeah , i would imagine missing that , but You know , that's what I think , that the other side Okay , i'm gonna come from a parents perspective here You've had this child that was either male or female , and they come out , even if they're supporting , supportive of you and your decision , and I hope that they are for everyone . But You have to remember that that parent And those brothers and sisters , their lives have changed Tremendously . I had two sons and a daughter . I lost one of my sons in the following year . My second son Comes out as transgender , so now I have two daughters .

Speaker 2 34:27

You know , you don't reconcile that in your brain in a day . I mean , that is something you have to grow with . You have to make changes as you go and learn how this new relationship is going to work . Um , so all I can say is that I'm on transgender websites and blogs and stuff because I'm trying to learn and I read a lot And I just often wonder From the other side of it How much time and how much conversation went into both sides Respecting the change and working to make it A happy Family , you know , or did the doors just automatically close ?

Speaker 2 35:16

And that's from the transgender side as well as the family side . Yeah , i mean , you've just dropped a bomb And as a parent , you've lost your son . Now thank god she's still here as low , because I know it from both sides Yeah , so I just think that everybody has to take a little time . I think there's too much jumping on the . I don't have any support and I don't want my child in my house . You know it's like come on , people back up , take a breath , have a conversation , let that one sink in and then go do it again . That's what I think .

Speaker 1 35:56

I think that's fantastic advice . Just you would know .

Speaker 2 36:02

I do know , you know , i can tell you right now the loss of a child is I don't feel like I've lost Lauren , i feel like that I don't have my boy , but I haven't lost one . And I don't know if you can understand that , because I've had a child that's deceased , so I know what it is really like to lose a child . So that's my perspective .

Speaker 1 36:30

Yeah , From having lost a brother , I get so mad at people that want to disown their relatives And it's like you don't know when they won't be there .

Speaker 2 36:41

That's right .

Speaker 1 36:42

So fucking fight for a relationship .

Speaker 2 36:44

And then , OK , think about this Lauren has a grandmother at this 93 . And he has to come out to her all the time . So I think he gets a lot of support because she tells him every time , tells her every time , I don't care .

Speaker 1 37:02

It is the most wonderful thing , people . She's dementia And first it was amazing . For like two years I told her once and she never brought it up again . But now her dementia is a little worse . So like six times at Christmas I had to tell her I was living as a woman . Now , every single time it was I love you . I don't care about that , you're gorgeous . You look like your mother , like it was every time , just like a big smile . That's true .

Speaker 2 37:36

That's very , very true .

Speaker 1 37:38

And it was just heartwarming and I know I'm going to remember that forever .

Speaker 2 37:43

I hope you do .

Speaker 1 37:45

I don't know , i could ever forget it . No .

Speaker 2 37:48

I will never forget it . But then you know she's accepting all y'all . She couldn't give a shit . She just wants her grandkids to be happy and that is absolutely it . That's what she lives for , you know , and for me to bring her coffee every morning .

Speaker 1 38:04

But other than that we're all good , you know .

Speaker 2 38:06

She's so , you know .

Speaker 1 38:11

Well , I'm feeling good .

Speaker 2 38:12

OK .

Speaker 1 38:13

Do you have anything else you want to say ?

Speaker 2 38:16

No , i just think people make this a bigger deal than what it needs to be , and I think that we all just need to learn that people need to make their own choices and the rest of us need to respect those choices , and we've got to give things time . You have to give things time , people . That's it .

Speaker 1 38:36

Time and respect .

Speaker 2 38:38

And I love Lo . even if I do call her Lauren , I do love .

Speaker 1 38:42

Lo , it is 100% fine . Honestly , any of my friends that knew me as Lauren that I still talk to I don't have a problem with that . Rob talks to me still and he calls me Lauren . Did I tell you what he said when I came out ? I've talked about this in the podcast before . He's always known me as his emotionally available male friend when we live together and stuff . So I've always filled the role for him of being the person he bitches to about his life drama . And he called me one day and he's just going off And after like 20 minutes he stops to breathe And I go hey .

Speaker 1 39:14

I'm trans . I go by Lo now She her all this shit And he cuts me off and goes dude , we're talking about me now . It didn't come up again for like months .

Speaker 2 39:26

That was the kind of friends to have .

Speaker 1 39:28

Yeah , it's like he didn't give a shit . He wanted his friend . He wanted his friend .

Speaker 2 39:32

That's what people miss is that just because somebody has made these decisions to be who they are supposed to be doesn't change the fact that they're friend or the way they love you or the way they relate to you . It just means they've made the decision to be who they need to be , and that's where people go off the track . Yeah , they forget that it's not still you . Still you , that's it .

Speaker 1 40:02

Probably a happier , better you after you've come to adjust things .

Speaker 2 40:07

Yeah , i would agree with that . I think you're pretty happy .

Speaker 1 40:10

I am I'm way happier than I was .

Speaker 2 40:13

And I think that when you were in all the stuff the counseling and the hormones and all that I was really worried about you for a long time . So I think that now that everything's pretty much coming to this is all the transitioning parts over and all that stuff I think you're much happier than you

Motherhood and Tragedy

Speaker 2 40:35

were . Lauren's , my child . So what else would I want for my child except for her to be happy ? That's what a mother's job is is to raise your child into adulthood and hope and pray that they're happy . That's it . That's my responsibility as a parent .

Speaker 1 40:51

That is a beautiful place to call it . Ok , because it's been a good amount of time and I think we're both crying . Say goodbye , goodbye , bye . I wanted to talk for a second about Ken Ellis . I knew him as a teacher . I was a student . He was wonderful . He believed in respect . I don't want to put words in his mouth , but he always carried himself with dignity And he expected you to act well , to be well , to be your best self , and he very honestly gave that in return .

Speaker 1 41:36

A few hours after the incident , i got a call from my mother . She was the dean at the time . She told me to wake up , get ready , because I needed to be at the school as soon as I could get there , and she couldn't tell me why yet or didn't . And an hour later , as I'm about to walk out the door , i get a phone call again . She tells me it was Mr Ellis . And what happened ? Well , what we knew at the time that someone knocked on his door and shot him . And when I got to the school there at 4 in the morning , she told me to stand in front of the main entrance and to make sure that every single adult that worked at that school knew what had happened , so they were prepared .

Speaker 1 42:41

I think almost all the teachers used that front entrance . There were about 70 of them , 20 or 30 staff . I can still remember most of them . I remember almost 100 times that morning I had to tell someone that I had known for years that a beloved friend of ours was gone . I've never hated guns so much And if I was asked to do that again I would , because sometimes you just have to do something . Sometimes you're just put in a place And you have to do something . That is incredibly hard but also necessary . I would like to thank my mother for trusting me with this recording . There was no swearing or drug use in this episode . I know , mom , you really wanted it in there , but I just didn't think it was right . I thought it was a little inappropriate scene . As you're my mom , remember to like , subscribe , rate , review , tell a friend , support queer media and remember everyone . You can choose to add people to your family . You don't get to remove them .