56 | The Empath’s Guide to Energy Vampires

Ever felt overwhelmed by the energies and people around you? You might just be an empath. Join us on an enlightening journey as we explore the power of empaths and their heightened sensitivity. From setting boundaries to ending relationships, we're discussing it all, guided by the wisdom of Judith Orloff's transformative book 'The Empath's Survival Guide'.

A continuation of our friendships and healing episode, we discuss energy vampires! We uncover signs of these silent drainers and offer tips to protect yourself.  But it's not just about recognizing energy vampires; it's about setting boundaries and knowing when to assert yourself. We dive into different types of energy vampires and the physical, emotional, and mental reactions they can trigger. With humor, we discuss how to navigate these difficult situations, keeping your self-esteem intact. Hop on board, let's empower ourselves together and make our empath traits work to our advantage.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Understanding Empaths
• 15:48 Understanding Empathy, ADHD, and Energy Vampires
• 30:14 Recognizing and Dealing With Energy Vampires
• 35:02 Understanding Energy Vampires and Setting Boundaries
• 47:55 Protecting Yourself From Energy Vampires
• 58:23 Navigating Narcissism and Self-Awareness
• 1:03:38 Setting Boundaries With Energy Vampires
• 1:18:02 Strategies for Dealing With Difficult People
• 1:33:04 Appreciating Bear and Expressing Love

Transcript

Understanding Empaths

Speaker 1 0:31

Welcome. Hi we're on one today, yeah.

Speaker 2 0:36

No, yeah, adhd is strong.

Speaker 1 0:39

Maybe it's because we didn't drink these first.

Speaker 2 0:41

Yeah, I need to focus, I need to chill out.

Speaker 1 0:45

You need to call me shit, I need some cava. Call me your tits.

Speaker 2 0:51

We were just talking about my tits.

Speaker 1 0:52

We were literally just talking about tits.

Speaker 2 0:55

I don't want to say what we're saying and nipples are real as well.

Speaker 1 0:59

It's a good thing I'm cutting that part out Cutting what part out. The part that you asked me to cut out. All of it, that whole conversation. You guys think you know us. You have no idea. No, you don't. You have no idea the things that I get to hear. It's beautiful, we are a lot crazier. We're a lot more fucked up. Then we portray to you guys. I just think it's like there's our private parts. We were talking about private parts.

Speaker 2 1:44

We were talking about private parts.

Speaker 1 1:46

No, like that episode in Sex in the City where she has her. What does she call it? The stuff that she does when she lives alone, that you don't want your boyfriend to know about?

Speaker 2 1:57

In Sex in the City. Yeah, oh, my God, I don't know, because I'm literally watching and just like that right now.

Speaker 1 2:03

And you said it to me. When I realized that you wore granny panties and pajamas, you were like this is my. There's a whole thing with it. Whatever we do things off camera that you guys would have to be in our inner circle to know.

Speaker 2 2:19

I think they would think it would be funny they would.

Speaker 1 2:23

I just don't want to share it. We're just going to cut those parts out, all right. So I want to talk about and this is going to be a continuation from the episode where we talked about friendships and how to know when to let go of them, because that comes up a lot for us in conversation, in interviews. But I also want to clarify that, while those things may not bother some people, they bother us. You and I are both empaths and I think I might be wrong about this, but I feel like a lot of our listeners might also be highly sensitive. I was going to say highly.

Speaker 2 3:11

If they're not empaths. They are highly sensitive. Yes, and if you are an empath, you are also highly sensitive, highly sensitive, but you can be highly sensitive without being an empath.

Speaker 1 3:21

Yes, and if you don't know the difference, we have an episode about that way far back in the beginning.

Speaker 2 3:27

Oh my God, like a year ago.

Speaker 1 3:29

The shit we've learned since then. But because of that, there are things about us that are different than your average bear, your average Joe. Yes, one of those things is our capacity to be around certain people and certain energies, and boundaries are hard for us. So, in continuation for the conversation, it's always funny to me how, like when I read things, they come at the right time. It's not funny, but it's just. It's beautiful. It's the universe being like you weren't ready for it before but you're ready for it now.

Speaker 2 4:14

Yeah, You're going to hear it in a different way, and so you have read this book. I have read this book.

Speaker 1 4:19

Three years ago Over three years ago. Was that three years ago? Mm-hmm 2020.

Speaker 2 4:25

Before my first mushroom. I remember when you texted me about it, you do. I was literally at a client's house, in their basement, training them, and we started talking about this and I was like I literally ordered it.

Speaker 1 4:42

I. This is probably the fourth, maybe fifth time I've bought this book, because you know what I do a lot of times is, if I'm talking about it and it's on me, I will gift it to the person that needs it.

Speaker 2 4:55

I have a book that I need to get back to you, warrior of light. Yeah, don't give me any more books. Okay, just tell me and let me buy it. Yeah, I'm going to use our link. Okay.

Speaker 1 5:10

You're going to buy it, use our link.

Speaker 2 5:12

Yeah, yeah. Well, are you telling me to use our own link? Absolutely Fucking, lutely. Okay, I will.

Speaker 1 5:19

Why would you not? You get a discount, true, true, it's literally like getting a discount. It is so. This book, for anybody who doesn't know is called the empaths survival by Judith Orloff. She is an MD and New York Times bestselling author of a book called emotional freedom. This book is life changing, but I read it three years ago when I had just learned about what an empath was and that I was one, because you hear that word it's one of the buzzwords, sure. And I was just like, yeah, I hear it a lot, but like I don't get it. And then I had that experience with the shaman and was like, oh my God, so I get this book to help me cope.

Speaker 2 6:10

But do you want to share, give a little overview of what that experience was with the shaman, because they don't know. Oh God, can you, I'm like, is there a way to condense it?

Speaker 1 6:23

Possibly, and maybe we can like talk about it later. Okay, so I just had a. I had a situation where there was a shaman in my house. It was a large group of women. I didn't know she was a shaman, and I actually had this conversation with somebody in our DMs a while back maybe not that long ago about like what a shaman is, because they were like, do you know any real shamans? How do I know if they're real or not? And I went into this like you know what is a shaman? I feel like a shaman is a healer. Yes, there are so many different ways to view a shaman. You can have a mushroom shaman. You can have an ayahuasca shaman. A shaman is a healer who uses the medicine that they practice with as a way of healing others and they practice with that medicine as a sacrament. So there are many different types of shamans, but also it's not that black and white. So, anyway, the shaman basically has this message for me and I wasn't I didn't, nobody was aware of it at the time and kind of shook me to my core.

Speaker 1 7:35

This fucking wild met with her again after that and she like knew everything about me. It was insane. Like knew I was struggling, knew where I was in life and said something to like kept saying like that I was a healer. And I was like I'm so fucking broken, like I'm not a. Like how am I a healer? Like look at me, I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. Like I'm so broken. And she says warriors, come to other warriors. And I'm staring at her, like what do you mean? Like she's like I came to you, like I had a message for you. Like warriors, come to other warriors. And I was just like sitting there in total silence, like trying to make sense of what she was saying. And then I finally was like am I an empath? And she was like yes, finally you're getting it.

Speaker 2 8:39

Yes, we need to have her on, by the way, we do.

Speaker 1 8:42

I mean, I've reached out to her before and I want to reach out to her again just to like get that, get her back on. But that was when my life changed, because that's when she said okay, now that you know, what are you going to do about it?

Speaker 1 8:55

Oh awareness is the first step. First step because you can be aware of so many things in your life, but what the fuck are you going to do about it? You can be like, yeah, I'm a control freak, okay, and, and yes, I have anxiety and I have depression. What are you going to do about it? You know, like, awareness is huge. It's always the first step, but it is not the only step, right, there's something that comes after that, right? So, yeah, broke down, bought the book and everything in this book. I was like, oh my God. I like, for the first time in my life, I feel understood, I feel seen, I feel heard. This makes so much sense. This is why I am the way that I am. But also, this was also pretty mushroom Leah, where I was like I don't fucking want this. Well, I want to be this. This sucks, this is hard, this is a curse. This is not a blessing. This is not. How the fuck am I supposed to deal with this now that I know it?

Speaker 2 10:00

Well, and it's. We spent a lot of our life suffering because of it, because we didn't know what, we weren't aware and we didn't know what to do with it, right. So it's like, once you realize, and now you know, you're like why do I got to be the one who has all the feelings? Why do I got to be the one who's got to be like so worried about, like who's around me and people?

Speaker 1 10:21

Why do I have to be so needy?

Speaker 2 10:23

people soaking up my energy and all this bullshit. Where people, other people, it can just like ricochet off them and it does not impact them in the slightest.

Speaker 1 10:35

Do you also know what really Grinds my gears, what grinds your ears? We actually did like a tick talk about this and and it's funny, it doesn't like piss me off to the point that I'm like very boomer of you to say, by the way, what grinds my gears, you know what really grinds my gear.

Speaker 2 10:54

I was going to say tickle my fancy, but I was like, no, that's happy.

Speaker 1 10:58

That's also very boomer. Tickles my fancy. These kids these days, these days Okay, they get on tick talk like where they complain about everything.

Speaker 2 11:10

All those two older women. Yes, they literally complain about everything. You know what. They're kind of funny, they are funny and sometimes I know. But sometimes what they say I'm like it's kind of true, but they're just a little on the negative Nancy side. Yeah, they're crotch.

Speaker 1 11:29

So one of the things that, like it bothers me but not like it doesn't like send me boiling, is the whole like are you an empath or did you just have to grow up aware of your surroundings and the emotional availability of the people around you or the emotional stability of the people around you, and did you have to, like, make certain? Remember we did it with like adjustments.

Speaker 1 11:56

Yeah, like where you had to, like you learned as a child to make adjustments because you were able to read the room. So it's like are you an empath or do you just have PTSD? So let me tell you what I think about that. Does it matter? Because it's like do you have ADHD or is it symptoms of trauma? Does it matter?

Speaker 2 12:21

Well, and here's the same thing.

Speaker 1 12:22

If they're the same thing, does it fucking matter, right?

Speaker 2 12:24

And here's the same. Here's the thing, like with God my day. Adhd is because of trauma. Right, I have ADHD because of the shit that I went through as a child.

Speaker 1 12:37

Right, right. So I'm like that label, like, if you have to label it to understand it, like it may be a symptom of trauma, but it's still a symptom that has a name and it's still the way that I'm wired and if it's something that you connect with, if it's because of trauma.

Speaker 1 12:59

It doesn't mean that I don't relate to being an empath or you don't have ADHD. You know what I'm saying, Mm? Hmm, so I'm not like knocking it, like is it a symptom of trauma? Fuck yeah, it is. But it's also something that I can use as a way like language is huge, Like when you have a word that explains something like and then you can understand it Like that's huge.

Speaker 2 13:30

Well, and I could go back to like are they really a narcissist? You're not. You're not a therapist, you can't diagnose. But it's like but if they are toxic and I feel like they're a narcissist, because they're always the victim, they can't apologize.

Speaker 1 13:52

Like I'm like they gaslight.

Speaker 2 13:54

You know I'm an extension of them, like I don't get to be my own person. If I need to label that to then learn about it and then set my own boundaries with that person or do what I need to do to protect my piece, I don't like. I guess I can go to a therapist to be like hey, can you diagnose? But how easy is it to diagnose a fucking narcissist? Not easy, just answer that.

Speaker 2 14:20

So if that's, out like if I've done my own research and I feel strongly with that. I'm going to go with that to do what I need to do to protect myself from that person.

Speaker 1 14:32

Well, to me it's like what does that fucking matter? How do you know that's a bird if you don't know what a bird is? Someone has taught you that a bird has wings and it has a beak and it flies and that's what it looks like, and then you're like oh, that's a bird. There are many types of birds.

Understanding Empathy, ADHD, and Energy Vampires

Speaker 1 14:51

You know, what I mean. But just that word alone, like empath, it describes something. It gives you something that you can relate to. It gives you something that you can dive deeper into, because before I had that word with me, I was very much like what the fuck is wrong with me? It's like symptoms and a diagnosis. Like you have all these symptoms but no fucking diagnosis. The diagnosis is a label. Why are labels so bad?

Speaker 2 15:25

Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 15:27

I'm okay with the label because it gives me an answer, and sometimes that label maybe that label's wrong you know what I mean, and sometimes it might be something different but it gives you peace of mind to know that, oh okay, I'm not fucking crazy, there's nothing wrong with me, and also, like this, explains everything. What?

Speaker 2 15:46

to do with it. So, whether you're an empath or highly sensitive, like if, these are things that you can relate, and then you can read from this book how to actually become empowered by it and hold boundaries and take care of yourself in a better way.

Speaker 1 16:04

What the fuck does it matter Right? Same with ADH. I know I keep saying that, but I'm trying to relate because we know you're on that spectrum too.

Speaker 2 16:18

Let me label you here I've got a neurodivergent brain.

Speaker 1 16:20

Yeah, you're a little neuro spicy, but aren't we all? But because of that you're like you can find ways to manage it or you can find ways that help you.

Speaker 2 16:32

I literally found this woman on Instagram who has ADHD and she has these videos of how to clean and it not be overwhelming and you get distracted Like she gives you tools to implement in your life. So if you're not ADHD, but maybe these are things that you struggle with, she is there to help. So, at the end of the day, what the fuck does it matter?

Speaker 1 17:02

Right, it's just a label, it's just a word to better understand yourself and people around you.

Speaker 2 17:09

So before writing my business plan or being in school, I didn't understand why I couldn't sit still, or if somebody was talking to me about something I'm like mm-hmm, mm-hmm, but I'm thinking about like unicorns and like what my next meal is going to be and like I can't focus. You probably thought there was something wrong with you, but I would mask it because with boys it's like it's, it's, they just act out, and ADHD was very much. So if you have ADHD, you're a boy and you're a boy that can't sit skit, sit still, and you're a boy that can't listen, where I think a lot of little girls were much better at like maybe they're not maybe they're not causing a scene, but I was, you know, daydreaming and not paying attention and still like fidgeting in my seat, and you know.

Speaker 1 18:04

But think about that too, like we were conditioned to be good girls and like if boys were acting out and like all hyper like boys, it's just boys being boys. So yeah, we're like women are also very hard to diagnose with autism. Like that diagnosis gets mixed up a lot and undiagnosed a lot, a lot, a lot.

Speaker 2 18:24

But if I acted out, I was crazy, which I am, so it's fine we are, we all are.

Speaker 1 18:30

So anyway, back to the book ADHD.

Speaker 2 18:35

Squirrel.

Speaker 1 18:38

So this book, I decided to go back and read it again because in the beginning I was not an empowered empath, I was not empowered at all.

Speaker 2 18:48

What made you go back and read it again?

Speaker 1 18:55

You know, I don't know Interesting.

Speaker 2 18:57

Which is I? Just I'm curious because it came out the perfect time in your personal life.

Speaker 1 19:02

Yes, I think I started reading it again six months ago, but I'm only like halfway through it again. So I think it was because I was having my husband read it too, to better understand me, and when he started reading it, I started reading it again.

Speaker 2 19:17

Gotcha.

Speaker 1 19:20

But the lesson that I got literally yesterday in reading this and I was texting you like, holy shit, the timing of this chapter right now is insane. Two of them actually two chapters were perfect, and reading it now is very different than what it was like three years ago, like because I do feel like I have used this and learned how to use it as a positive thing and I am I do consider myself an empowered empath, oh yeah, and it does not mean that I don't struggle with it at times, but I don't let myself suffer in it anymore. It doesn't seem like a curse anymore. It really does.

Speaker 1 20:11

I do see it as a blessing, and what's funny about this is in the very first chapter she talks about how the patients that she works with. A lot of times in the very beginning they're like who wants this? Nobody wants this. This is horrible, it's a curse. Why would anybody want to feel all of this stuff all the time and not be able to shut it off? And then she works with them and she helps them empower themselves, and that's very much what I feel. I don't think I was in a place when I first read it.

Speaker 2 20:41

Well, and when you first read it, you were just learning about really who you were Truly when. Now you're in a much more healed space, and so you can get even more information from the book. Yeah, and more downloads from that book, because I read it in a very different light.

Speaker 1 22:04

Yeah, which is usually how books are.

Speaker 2 22:07

I think of a mushroom journey. Yeah, Like every time the lesson is different and you know, when I first started, that was the lesson I needed at that time. But it's like it keeps upping because I'm in a space that I'm In a different space, yeah, in your life.

Speaker 1 22:26

Yeah. So chapter five I want you guys like if you relate to being an empath, or even if you are like Friends with one or dating someone who you might think is an empath, or if you even think that you might be one.

Speaker 2 22:47

That yeah, like, or to better like, if you have a child that you think is an empath or highly sensitive even highly sensitive. Read it to better understand them. Yes, which it's in our Amazon storefront, by the way.

Speaker 1 23:03

Yes, it is, but one of the reasons and this is why it ties back to that, because one of the reasons I had to break up with a few friends last year or the year before Was because of me being an empath, and it really wasn't personal and it had nothing to do with them. But at the same time, I don't think that they even understood what that meant or wanted to understand what it meant to be me. Because how can you go to someone and say like your anger makes me angry, when they're like, okay, but we've been friends for this long and it never bothered you before, and I'm like, no, it's always bothered me, but now I understand why it bothers me so much. You know what I mean. So it that the empath thing and we've talked about this before you really don't go down those rabbit holes unless it directly affects you.

Speaker 2 23:58

Yeah.

Speaker 1 23:59

And I don't expect them to go reading this book, but I did so anyway. We've talked about, like, the reasons to know, or what do we say, like how to know when to end a friendship. I want to talk about how to protect yourself when you like can't remove yourself from these relationships if it's like family or friends that, like you can't exactly like exclude from your life or co workers, but also what an energy vampire is. So this chapter is all about protecting yourself from narcissists and energy vampires, and an energy vampire is someone who just sucks the life out of you, and some people have a very hard time recharging after that. Like do you?

Speaker 2 25:01

understand what like? Yeah, and I think what's interesting is how many people have we heard and I used to be that person too. Oh my gosh, I dread hanging out with this person because when I like, I just like have to like mentally prepare, like whatever.

Speaker 1 25:19

Right, and it's not just us. This is like we're hearing other people say this.

Speaker 2 25:22

Right, this is a common thing that we have heard.

Speaker 1 25:25

So I'm like so the why are you hanging out with him? Exactly, but I've done it too. I have to.

Speaker 2 25:32

But also I think that a lot of people think that that feeling is bad, like they ignore it, suppress it, like, okay, they're family, they're you're, they're your childhood friend. Whatever push it down, that feeling is there for a reason and like, being one with your body is also learning how to listen to it and that is not your enemy. That is your friend telling you Okay, like, this person makes you feel anxious or is making you feel dread, so there may need to be some boundaries with that relationship. You're 100% correct. Like, let those feelings like, be on its side. Don't ignore it, don't suppress it. They are there for a reason.

Speaker 1 26:19

Become friends with the feelings. Why are you doing this to me? Oh, you don't. You don't like the way you feel in front of this person. I hear you, yes, so what's interesting? That I'm just going to put this out there. First time I was ever diagnosed with anxiety was when I was pregnant with my last child, so seven years ago, and I felt a lot of anxiety around my mother-in-law. Interesting, interesting. I had a hard time being around her. I would like, literally like if I knew I had to be around her, I would like, beg, like. I don't want to do this. I don't want to do this, but I had to. Your mother had to, had to at the time.

Speaker 2 27:10

And that's the other thing too that so many people say I have to.

Speaker 1 27:13

I have to. I can't not be around her. I have to. I'm going to have to sit through this, but I didn't understand at the time that it was coming from her.

Speaker 2 27:22

Oh, you just, you didn't even realize that, because I was diagnosed with like. Anxiety and depression.

Speaker 1 27:27

Yeah, you just thought you had anxiety, yes, and also, you know, my OBGYN wanted to put me on medication while I was pregnant and said it was safe. But and I? It is like 25 milligrams of Zoloft, Like it's like a baby dose, and you can be on it while you're pregnant or nursing. I didn't want to do it, so for me, every time I would have those anxious feelings, I would be like it's just because I'm pregnant and I can't medicate and I don't want to.

Recognizing and Dealing With Energy Vampires

Speaker 1 27:55

And now, looking back, I'm like, oh, my fucking God, my body was telling me to get the fuck out. It really was so. Anyway, if an energy vampire and a narcissist, they are attracted to the openness and loving hearts of empaths. So you have to be prepared to deal with people like this. So let me just say this not everybody is a narcissist, but it doesn't matter to me If you are an energy vampire, if you suck the life out of me, you don't have to be a narcissist for me to be like. I can't be around that person. Yeah, but it's hard for me to be around you because you drain me, yeah.

Speaker 2 28:39

If my body doesn't feel at p, if my nervous system is not regulated when I'm around you. That's a good way to you are probably not my people.

Speaker 1 28:51

How would you explain that to someone, though, who isn't in touch with their body enough to know that their body is dysregulated, or their nervous system is dysregulated, or that their sympathetic nervous system is activated?

Speaker 2 29:05

So for me personally it kind of depends on the person and the energy that they bring, but a lot of times, if let's say there's like an energy vampire, I will feel very overstimulated, very, very overstimulated, like if somebody has a really chaotic energy. It's almost like I can't just relax, I don't feel at peace, I get anxiety and oftentimes, like I you know, like that nervous feeling you get in your stomach, that unsettling Like butterflies in your stomach, but it's not butterflies. And they're not good butterflies.

Speaker 1 29:52

No, they're like moths. I mean, I like moths. Oh yeah, you got moths, they're like wasps.

Speaker 2 30:01

Yeah, I don't like wasps. Yeah, who wants wasps in their belly? Nobody.

Speaker 1 30:07

I feel emotionally drained afterwards to the point that I feel like I need to decompress. I need to not be around people for a while, and sometimes I don't know how long that is. But it's very much like listen, husband, I like your friends, but I can only handle them in certain situations and in small doses, and I don't want to be around them as much as you do, because I can't shut it off and you can. But when I come home after interacting with this group of people, I don't want to get out of my bed for days.

Speaker 2 30:50

That's what I was going to add. When I leave, I don't want to see anybody, I don't want to talk to anybody.

Speaker 1 30:56

I don't want to text anybody, not even you, yeah, not even you, not even you.

Speaker 2 31:00

I'm like get that phone away from me when I leave somebody who is an energy vampire. All I want to do is go home and take a nap, because they have exhausted the fuck out of me, okay.

Speaker 1 31:13

So let's talk about this. Okay, this is how you know if you've met an energy vampire. Okay, ways to know that you've met one. Here are some signs to listen for and to watch for. This is actually perfect, because if you don't know what anxiety feels like because anxiety shows up and it manifests in different ways for different people I've noticed some people have a very somatic experience with anxiety. My husband like feels like he can't breathe when he's feeling anxious, and I don't know what the fuck I do, but like my body, like my whole body, just like shuts the fuck down.

Speaker 2 31:47

I get incredibly over stimulated. And that and that. It makes me moody and on edge and hyper vigilant.

Speaker 1 31:57

And hyper vigilant because, if you ask me what's wrong, I'm like I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, I can't explain it, I don't know. That's my anxiety, Like I start to panic on the inside. So if you are not familiar with those things, which I'm sure like now that you're hearing this, maybe you'll pay attention to it. But number one thing you feel tired and want to go to sleep afterward. Interesting Number two you're suddenly in a terrible mood.

Speaker 2 32:26

Oh, my motherfucking, God.

Speaker 1 32:29

Number three you feel sick. I don't get sick, but this, these are just like ways to know like you're not going to have all of these. It's not going to be. If you feel all these 10 things, do you feel sick?

Speaker 2 32:40

No, not usually no.

Speaker 1 32:43

Number four you don't feel, seen or or heard. Yes, that's huge. Yes. Number five you reach for sugar or carbohydrates for a boost. I would even add to that you reach for drugs or alcohol.

Understanding Energy Vampires and Setting Boundaries

Speaker 2 33:02

So this is with intention, right. Yes, drugs okay, because there are. I am a cannabis user. Yes it. There are benefits that help me. It helps me end times to focus. It helps me. It is not an escape, okay, so I'm not. There are people that I know who are like they use cannabis just to get through the day, yeah. Or people use alcohol just to get through the day, or it's like the second they get home from work they gotta grab, you know, a cold one and escape their reality. Yeah. Intention with these substances is so important, well.

Speaker 1 33:58

I think, if you feel like Tom Holland just did an interview I saw oh my God yes.

Speaker 1 34:03

You did, I did. Oh, I love that. I've only listened to clips of it. But one of the things he says is like he stopped drinking alcohol for dry January and then went six more months and then now he's like what a year and a half sober. But one of the things he said was that like he realized that he was only reaching for alcohol when he was in social situations because he didn't want to be around those people. Yeah so that's a huge one.

Speaker 2 34:30

He has like some social anxiety.

Speaker 1 34:31

Social anxiety. I definitely have social anxiety and I definitely have social anxiety when I am around people who are drinking and I'm not. So I feel like when you feel I'll give an example you're like you're anxious about going somewhere and you're like I'll be fine once I have a drink, like, but then you get there and you start drinking and then you can't stop drinking because, like it's. It's like masking this uncomfortable feeling that you have being in this situation in the first place. For me, the way that I am now, if I am invited to a situation where I know I'm going to be uncomfortable, I don't go, I don't want to be there. Or if it's a situation that I'm going in support of someone else, I will go and I will have an exit plan. Or I will go and I will have, I will drive separate so I can leave if I need to. Yeah, and I won't commit to the whole thing.

Speaker 2 35:26

And from reading that book and from doing mushrooms, I used to be really bad at anything that people shared with me and any energy that, like I was around, I internalized it. Yeah, I was at home and that's what made me very tired and very irritable. I've gotten much better being in situations where I have to be around. You know, let's say, a narcissist or an energy vampire where there are boundaries around it, but also anything that they bring, I like you know, yeah, I don't absorb it, I ricochet.

Speaker 2 36:01

I've gotten so much better at that Well, it's because you're empowered.

Speaker 1 36:04

So let me just say that too. Like some people can be in situations like that, it doesn't affect them and it doesn't affect them. But if you are highly sensitive, or especially if you are an empath, being around anything like that, you are going to absorb that energy and take it home with you. You can't shut it off unless you learn the skills and the tools to be able to do that. It's like with the silent boundaries that I was talking about earlier. Like I had to set those silent boundaries in place to protect my energy so I don't go home exhausted.

Speaker 1 36:40

So that was number five reaching for sugar, carbs or alcohol. I'm six you start doubting yourself and becoming self critical. This is that again how to know if you've met an energy vampire. This is like when you're away from them. Number seven you become anxious, angry or negative. When you didn't feel that way before, I did start to notice that around some people, I would feel sad after leaving some people if they were sad all the time, or angry after leaving someone if they were angry all the time, and it wasn't even mine.

Speaker 2 37:10

Yeah, they weren't.

Speaker 1 37:11

They weren't your emotions, they weren't my emotions, but I was holding on to them for that person and they probably left feeling lighter. Oh, I'm sure because they got your light, get it out of them. But what they didn't realize is that it stuck with me and I didn't, at the time, know how to separate myself from that.

Speaker 2 37:33

You know what I used to do at the gym. I'd say, had a personal training client and they came to me and they were they would just dump their shit on me and I would take it and there would be no boundaries. Let's say they were going through something, let's like an affair, okay, and they were angry at their husband and they were telling me all about it and venting and talking shit and talking shit about the you know the other woman and yada, yada, yada. I didn't even realize it until Tony took it out on me. I would come home and like pick fights with Tony, so it was almost like they them being pissed at their husband.

Speaker 2 38:17

I would then go and take it out on Tony, yeah, until he like put two or two together and he's like I think that this is too much for you, like you have no boundaries with any of these people. You see them at the gym, they text you and they call you to talk to you about their problems and you you just listen to it and whatever. And he's like it's consuming your life that you don't know what's yours and what's not yours anymore. Yeah, I was like, oh fuck, did I just get bread?

Speaker 1 38:45

And I did, totally did. I would come home crying if someone like lost, like a mother or grandmother, and I like legit couldn't sleep that night. Yeah, because I would be so upset for that person and sad, and my husband didn't under, he was just like you didn't even know them.

Speaker 2 39:02

Yeah, yep, I've gotten Tony involved with other people's marriages, trying to get Tony to help.

Speaker 1 39:11

You're like none of it was ever any, none of it was yours.

Speaker 2 39:14

Because I was trying to save their marriage and I'm like why are you trying to save a marriage? You are not in, babe, you are not the husband nor the wife. No, you took it on and you didn't need to. Why are you doing that at seven o'clock on a Wednesday night when you're a mother? Oh my.

Speaker 1 39:25

God. So yeah, becoming anxious, angry or negative when you didn't feel that way before, because we absorb that and take it home with us unless you start to learn to empower yourself. It doesn't mean it still doesn't. It still happens, because sometimes I can't escape it. And then the last one is you feel shame, controlled or judged. So now seven types of energy vampires. Oh okay, this is good. The number one worst narcissist, 100% narcissist. They're very attracted to empaths because we give them supply and that supply I know that sounds like weird to people, but like the supply is empathy, like when you feel heard and when you feel seen, like that's like a great feeling. And when you find someone who always listens to you and always holds space for you. It is like a never ending supply and they feel validated 100% of the time and they will suck it out of you until you're dry, like a vampire, literally. I literally cannot get comfortable. I don't know why.

Speaker 2 40:48

Literally by.

Speaker 1 40:49

Literally by. So of all the energy vampires, narcissists can be the most destructive to empaths. Now I do want to say this because this is like that. I think most people can identify a narcissist in their life or someone who has a lot of narcissistic traits. Well, in everything's a spectrum right, right, right, right.

Speaker 2 41:15

Yes, same thing I feel like with narcissism Right, and I feel like I feel like it's gotten better. But a lot of people have this black and white view of what a narcissist is. Yes, and I think most people's view can be they're overly aggressive, full of themselves. Full of themselves, you know, a very intense personality, and that is not very egoistical super cocky. It's so much more and it's so much deeper than that. I know someone who is a narcissist that is not aggressive. She's just always a victim, perpetually a victim.

Speaker 1 42:06

Yeah Well, and so that's a narcissist will drain an empath. And I have been thinking about this because if you are in like close quarters with one, or if you're dating someone or married to someone or like somebody in your family, is one like that's very hard to remove yourself from, like I understand that I probably have people in my life who are, but I'm not their supply. Can I say who?

Speaker 2 42:37

Your mom.

Speaker 1 42:38

My mom yeah.

Speaker 2 42:40

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, like she has come back into your life, but there are boundaries and there was a lot of healing and you take her like. You take her for what she is. You don't have these expectations that you have anymore of like how she should show up for you as a mom, right, because she's not going to.

Speaker 1 43:01

Right, so I don't let it affect me the way that it used to. You've done so good at that Then fucking.

Speaker 2 43:07

some ourselves Like it literally like ricochets off of you, yeah, like you do not absorb any of that anymore.

Speaker 1 43:12

It does but it does not mean and this is where I was going with this Like there are people that are that are like in friend circles that I would think like our energy vampires. They're not my friends, but they're in the circle. I have a hard time being around them, even though I'm not the one that they're sucking the life out of, just because I can feel it.

Speaker 2 43:33

Yeah, and you probably fucking see it.

Speaker 1 43:35

It's so lucky I might not be their supply, but I don't like it. Yeah, I don't like to be around it. Well, and you probably really see. You see it, I see it.

Speaker 1 43:45

It's hard to so that's hard, like it's hard to unsee. Yeah, so yeah, the narcissist and we will probably go into this at a later time, but there are, like so many different types of narcissists. We've maybe done a few episodes on that Protection strategies and ways to protect yourself from a narcissist. This is actually funny because it's what you just said. Number one lower your expectations of their emotional capabilities, which is what I do with my mother. I don't think she's an evil person. I don't think narcissists are, that's hard.

Speaker 1 44:25

I know I'm like I don't know that they know how to be any other way. I don't think my mom is evil.

Speaker 2 44:37

And this sounds. They were conditioned that way because things happen to them and they you know narcissists come from trauma, whether it was like extreme abuse or Neglect. Neglect or enabling or whatever. Yeah, things happened to make them the way that they are and they're just incredibly unaware.

Speaker 1 45:00

Yes, I don't like saying that they're not evil, that they are or they aren't. I don't think that there's like nobody's inherently good and nobody's inherently bad. I just see my mom very different now, because I've lowered my expectations of what she's capable of and the way that she can show up for me. She is who she is and I have no expectations of her to show up in any other way or in any capacity, so that's why I'm only able to be around her. Don't let yourself be manipulated. I think I have gotten a lot better at that, and I think for a long time I was easily manipulated, like it was like a joke like how easily I was manipulated.

Speaker 2 45:42

Yeah, you are like a golden retriever.

Speaker 1 45:45

Motherfucker, I'm so fucking stupid and loyal Don't say stupid Golden retrievers are smart.

Speaker 2 45:51

They're so smart and they're so cute, but you're like, you're like squirrel over there and they're like where? Yeah, you're kind of like that. I'm also very gullible. Oh my God, you are gullible Shit. I really need to like honestly, manipulate you a little bit more with that. I just feel like I've got some things in my pocket that I could use. Yeah, but, dillie, don't like traumatize me.

Speaker 1 46:15

No, just like jokingly. Yeah, just have some fun with it. Yeah, just fuck with you a little bit, but I'm also a lot harder to manipulate in like an abusive way. Yeah, no, I'm like oh, you can have fun with me. Jason, does it to me all the time. I'll have fun with you. One time we got high and watched Mad Max. Have you seen that?

Speaker 2 46:36

Hell yeah, was Cameron Diaz or no? Oh my God, Charlize Theron, yes, yes.

Speaker 1 46:44

I was so high I didn't understand what was happening. Oh wow, the entire time. Okay, and so I'm asking a million questions, like, don't ever watch a movie with me, because I ask a million questions if I'm high. Okay, good to know he is explaining this movie to me but making shit up the entire time, and so you believed it. I believe I'm like God bless, but why would they do that?

Speaker 1 47:08

And he's like he comes up with another plot and he's like completely making this entire plot of the movie up as he goes. You make it way too fucking easy. I was high first off, okay. And so we get done watching the movie and I'm like I don't understand anything that happened. That doesn't make sense. Like no, I don't understand. Like none of it made sense to me and he's just like laughing his ass off. That is so funny, I still haven't watched it sober, but like just made up the whole thing.

Speaker 2 47:39

That's what makes Jason laugh Fucking with people, fucking with you, fucking with people Okay good to know.

Speaker 1 47:48

You all would have fun together.

Speaker 2 47:49

I know we could relate on that.

Speaker 1 47:50

Okay, another way to protect yourself. Don't expect a narcissist to respect your sensitivities. They are very cold. They do not respect your sensitivities. They expect you to respect theirs, but they do not respect yours. This is pretty cut and dry. I don't. We could go into this, but this is don't fall in love with a narcissist. Run in the opposite direction, no matter how attracted you feel.

Speaker 2 48:21

I would go that's especially if somebody is a covert narcissist. That can be really hard. Well, because if you-. It can be hard Unaware and a covert narcissist can put on a good face for a minute.

Speaker 1 48:37

Yeah, yes, they seem very caring and very loving and you believe every word they say because you're like, oh my God, I can't believe those people would be that awful to you. I will say, instead of like, don't fall in love with a narcissist or run in the opposite direction. I would say any of these things that we're talking about, these like seven energy vampires. If you're with someone who is like, who like, sounds like one of these, it might be a red flag for you. You may be okay with it, and if you are, then it's not a red flag. But if you're like us and it affects you greatly, then it's a red flag. Try to avoid working with a narcissistic boss, but if you can't leave, don't let your self-esteem depend on them or on them Do. This says to definitely stroke their ego if you were in a work situation with them, because that is how you can get along with them, which is so fucked up.

Speaker 2 49:37

I really would struggle with that. I don't think I could actually do that.

Speaker 1 49:41

Yeah. So it says like if your boss is a narcissist, instead of saying I need to take a break from the office, you can say I need to go to a conference and this will help me be more successful in the business.

Speaker 2 49:55

Okay.

Speaker 1 49:56

So there are ways that you can say it, so it like helps them, like it coddles them. Basically Stop all contact when you can. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay, Second energy vampire the rageaholic.

Speaker 2 50:10

You love to be friends with. You used to love to be friends with a rageaholic.

Speaker 1 50:17

There was only one. Okay, that's true, that's true, those so but that's what I'm saying. Like there were two people, two friends I had to break up with and one was a rageaholic yeah, she was Everybody for everything.

Speaker 2 50:35

Intense, intense.

Speaker 1 50:39

See those, I literally cussed my receptionist out before, like things like that, where I'm like you, like the type of person who would like cuss at a waiter or waitress if they got their order wrong, like angry at the world, angry at everybody, like snapped at my kid once and that was like kind of like my, like last, like no, we're not doing this. What, yeah? Which one? Austin, yeah, a little bit of Austin. She's parents very different than I do. She is an authoritarian parent, like you will be afraid of me, yeah, but that's not your child, I would.

Speaker 1 51:21

Oh, I know, I told him no about something and she was with us and I told him no, and he was like why? It was because he wanted to like bring a stick in the car. And I was like we're not taking that stick in the car, like you don't need to take a stick home, we have a million sticks in our front yard. And he was like but why? And she was like. She grabbed his arm and she was like did you not hear your mother? She said no, why are you questioning her? And I was like I don't. I didn't even know what to say. I don't parent like that. I never have, I never will Like. It was very like you should be afraid of your mother and I'm. That was like one of like towards the end where I was like yeah, I don't know if I can do this, do this.

Speaker 2 52:04

So that's what's interesting is like I've always struggled with people pleasing, but somebody who is a rageaholic, I get scared, I get scared, I get bullied into submission. You do Because after she yelled at your receptionist.

Speaker 1 52:19

That should have been red flag number one, and you all became friends.

Speaker 1 52:25

Yeah, oh, my God, yeah so that is, they are energy vampire and they are energy vampire and they are energy vampire and they are energy vampire. They are energy vampires. They deal with conflict by accusing, attacking and controlling. They often yell, impasse, are very. We shut down. When there's yelling, I do anyway. Like yelling, like takes me out for days, like I yell, Like if I get into a fight with my husband, like there's yelling, oh, I'll yell too, but I will. Like it takes me days To recover, to recover from that Same. Or if, like I'm yelling, I'm like it's because you're yelling at me.

Speaker 1 53:08

I'm just matching your energy. I can't Okay. So the rageaholic setting limits with them. You have to also know the difference between venting and dumping, which is something that you were talking about earlier. Venting is healthy and there's a time limit on it. With venting, there's usually one topic. They don't repeat the same point, they don't blame, they don't fall into victim mode. They're accountable for their part and they're open to solutions. We vent to each other a lot Open to solutions.

Speaker 1 53:40

Mm-hmm. Dumping goes on and on, overwhelms with many, many issues, keeps repeating the same point, blames others, plays the victim, shows no accountability for their part and they are not open to solutions. That's a good way to tell the difference between venting and dumping we were just talking about this.

Speaker 2 53:58

Yeah, before we started recording about the people who are miserable. They constantly complain about their life and how stressed they are, or busy they are, or unhappy they are, whatever. And they come to you and when you give them options or when you offer them help and they don't take it, they stay in it. Yeah, no matter what lifeline is presented to them, they stay in it, they stay stuck. And then they just those people. Oh, my gosh, cause I'm so even more so now. Okay, I have this problem. What am I gonna do about it?

Speaker 1 54:51

That should always be the next question.

Speaker 2 54:53

Right, what am I gonna do? Always be. This is not working. What am I going to do? But that is not. Not everybody thinks that way. No, and I think it is again easy to blame, hard to be like, okay, what am I gonna do?

Speaker 1 55:11

Yeah, so ways to protect yourself from rageaholics Let them know you hear them. Then suggest that the issue be worked out respectfully. After they calm down, Say something like I wanna help you, but it's hard for me to listen when you're in this state. So you can just say I don't wanna, I can't help you when you're yelling or when you're this angry. Set a no yelling role with loved ones. At the very least, say it's not allowed around you. Walk away when there's yelling. So that's like ways to protect yourself. Stay calm. Don't yell back when you're triggered. Reacting impulsively will just drain you and aggravate them. Pause when you're agitated. Count to 10. Take a quiet time out to wait on your fight or flight response. To calm down. Wait until you're calm before you respond. Practice restraint, including texting, email and phone, Because a rageaholic is gonna rage no matter what you say or do, no matter how calm you are.

Speaker 1 56:12

So just try to like stay calm, it's not about you, it's dumb. This one's like a little bit more wooey, but like visualize yourself as an open window with air freely flowing through it.

Speaker 2 56:25

I love that.

Speaker 1 56:26

The last one is just leave the room, leave, just leave, just walk away. All right. The third type of energy vampire the victim.

Speaker 2 56:36

Oh God.

Navigating Narcissism and Self-Awareness

Speaker 1 56:38

Oh, don't you kind of feel like so far, like the three, the two different types that aren't narcissists can sometimes be fall under those narcissistic tendencies 100%, which is wild to me. Like, so really is the word necessary. Like is the word necessary.

Speaker 1 56:59

Right If they have characteristics and they make you feel a certain way, well, and covert narcissists are very like of that victim mindset and there's malignant narcissists who are always playing victim. So like, yeah, the victim, victim mentality drains and pass because their world is against me attitude is extremely toxic to us. I used to feel that way and so I've said before, like I attracted a lot of those people because I also was that person. Like the world is against me. I was victim, like once upon a time. Could I have maybe been looked at as a covert narcissist or had tendencies yeah. Tendencies, yes. Patterns yes.

Speaker 2 57:50

Yeah, but I think there are other things that I didn't do, though, like I didn't gaslight, I didn't manipulate, I didn't do the silent treatment I didn't like but also I think that especially people who grow up with a lot of child trauma and they haven't healed or processed it or dealt with it you were in this, you know, survival mode your whole life. So there is kind of like it's hard to differentiate what's safe and what's not, because you don't even know what safety is, and so it is easy to have that mentality of like it's me against the world. Yeah, because that's kind of what you know.

Speaker 1 58:36

That's what I knew.

Speaker 2 58:37

Right, and in that, in the moment of your childhood, it was kind of actually like that, like you did not have, you know, a safe space. It's just when you become an adult and you get out of that situation and you're not in that unsafe space anymore. Now, getting your body out, like getting your body out of that fight or flight, yeah, is tough. So I think that is a little different, but I see what you're saying.

Speaker 1 59:09

Well, but there was also that, like the thing that separates someone who could potentially be diagnosed as a narcissist and someone who has narcissistic tendencies, or someone who maybe had tendencies but starts working on themselves, the thing that is different between them is there is self-awareness, yeah. And when I realized that, I was like of that mindset, right, there was like, oh, I don't wanna live like this. Right, there's gotta be something I can do. What can I do about it? Like, it's like that whole second step, like, and now what Right? And now what Right. So there is a person in my life who I would consider, you know, a narcissist and a victim, and their mindset and their mentality is, well, that's just the way that I am, and I have trauma and that's just how I am. And to me it's like, okay, yes, you have those things, but you're not doing anything to work on them or to heal them. It's like the TikTok that you just posted yesterday. Ah, what was it?

Speaker 2 1:00:19

Well, excuse me for having extreme flaws that I do not work on Literally and I literally captioned it. Every boomer parent, or boomer parents when their adult children go to them to share how their childhood impacted them.

Speaker 1 1:00:41

Yes, because that's a thing Like yes, we are all flawed human beings, and we all have trauma?

Speaker 2 1:00:51

Yes, and I understand that. You know those parents had things happen to them. That is why they are the way that they are Right. You and I both had this, even if we didn't know what to do. We had this awareness that some of the qualities and the patterns that we had, we knew we didn't like and didn't feel good and were toxic, and we wanted to do things to feel better.

Setting Boundaries With Energy Vampires

Speaker 2 1:01:25

There was just a lot of trial and error and again, you know, there's been a lot more information with just in the past couple of years that has come out about mental health. Yeah, so we wanted to do something. We didn't always have the right tools in our toolbox, but there was at least that. Like there are things that I don't like about myself that I want to change, but I don't know how to necessarily change it yet. Right, when these people, it's the mentality of like this is how I am, just get over it and it's like. It's not like like a fucking mole on your arm, Sharon, like you can change that. Yeah, that's not who you are. It's not who you are. It's a negative pattern that you carry, but it's not who you are, Right.

Speaker 1 1:02:17

Who you are goes much deeper than that Right, much, much deeper than that For sure. That's not who you are. Yeah, this. It says it like drains and paths, because victims will typically respond to any solution with well yeah, but well yeah, but that doesn't work. Well yeah, but I can't do that.

Speaker 2 1:02:37

That's. The other thing is we always took lifelines. When people presented us lifelines, we were open and willing to receive that. I was like a fucking kid with lifelines Like I was like seeking lifelines oh the second we met for lunch and you're like yeah, I'm like bitch, why do you look so peaceful? Give it to me Mushrooms. Never heard of her.

Speaker 1 1:02:56

That's literally how I was with mushrooms.

Speaker 2 1:02:58

Give me one though.

Speaker 1 1:02:59

Before my first trip, I almost, I feel like I, almost, like I don't want, I don't want to say I bullied her into it, but like she wasn't ready to see that she wasn't ready to, she wasn't set up yet. I was like when are we doing it? When are we doing it? When are we doing it? When are we doing it? When she came to me with a date, with a final date, I was like fuck.

Speaker 2 1:03:16

Yes.

Speaker 1 1:03:17

A lifeline.

Speaker 2 1:03:18

I think when I met you, we did my journey like three or four weeks later. Yeah, yeah, they sign me up, right?

Speaker 1 1:03:25

now Injected in my veins Right the seconds for those new to this podcast. You don't inject them. Don't be spreading this information, christine. Sorry, it's just like insane.

Speaker 1 1:03:41

So you have to learn to have boundaries with people who have victim mentalities and be careful not to turn into a codependent friend or their therapist. So ways to protect yourself from victims Set compassionate but clear boundaries. People can hear us better when we're not being snippy or impatient. Use the three minute phone call rule. I love that. Listen briefly, then tell your friend or family member I support you, but I can only listen for a few minutes. If you keep rehashing the same issues, maybe you should talk to your therapist. Sounds harsh, but honestly it's, it's. It sounds harsh to me. This is like my whole, like my villain era, like I'm so mean now and it's literally me just telling you to talk to therapist.

Speaker 2 1:04:38

Not like you're telling anybody to suck your big fat donkey dick.

Speaker 1 1:04:41

No, but I kind of want to use that for something I'll be like suck my Weenus Leah.

Speaker 2 1:04:52

I'm trying. That's not even a wiener, that's an elbow, a weenus. Yes, your weenus is your elbow.

Speaker 1 1:05:00

What, what yeah.

Speaker 2 1:05:04

Says? Who Says fucking Google bitch what? Let me, let me Weenus.

Speaker 1 1:05:10

I have always said wiener as weenus, stop it. Jason says it too, my kids say it. If you pull this up and it says it's an elbow, I'm going to die.

Speaker 2 1:05:24

A weenus is a flap of loose skin on the back of the elbow.

Speaker 1 1:05:29

That's what that is. You've been thinking my arms because I have a weenus.

Speaker 2 1:05:35

You've been thinking that a weenus is a penis this whole time, my whole life. You've been spending all of these years saying vocally out loud about your weenus. And it's your elbow, but you think it's.

Speaker 1 1:05:53

Jason will talk about it like it's like crawl the warrior king. He literally will.

Speaker 2 1:06:00

So he thinks it's that too.

Speaker 1 1:06:02

When we go upstairs. I need you to say it to him, he will die. Are you serious? I swear to God he like sex talks with a weenus, is this?

Speaker 2 1:06:14

like a joke that you're not in on. Maybe Could that be it. Is he just like?

Speaker 1 1:06:19

Why would he bring our kids into that joke.

Speaker 2 1:06:22

I don't know, that would be fucked up.

Speaker 1 1:06:26

I am shook right now. Oh, my God, oh my. God, okay, now I know yeah.

Speaker 2 1:06:33

So this is.

Speaker 1 1:06:35

Don't be like I can't suck your weenus tonight, leah. I don't say that. I don't say that, I don't even say that.

Speaker 2 1:06:43

I feel very uncomfortable with you, even sex talking. We were talking earlier about how Leah should be. She just has this really great voice and she should be a sex phone therapist. But the deal would be is that I would have to be in her ear telling her what the fuck to even say. She would just have to deliver the message. But you would have to deliver it correctly. I would giggle, you would. I don't even know what you'd be like.

Speaker 1 1:07:10

But anyways, taking it back to episode one. This is why I have.

Speaker 2 1:07:16

I have big dick energy and I have Small weenus energy, because you've been talking about a weenus, thinking it's a weiner. This your whole life. You're a grown ass woman right now, messing. You've been fucking this up and not even knowing Jesus. This is why I have a donkey dick and you don't.

Speaker 1 1:07:38

I cannot wait To share this information with everybody. I'm going to tell your kids We've been saying it wrong kids, so wait, your kids think it's a weiner. We just joke around. I mean no, they say penis like Right, but they call it weenus. Yes, Okay. Yes.

Speaker 2 1:07:58

I'm a. I am so glad we had this conversation Family.

Speaker 1 1:08:03

I'm so glad we had this conversation. You know, sex ed wasn't really I should teach sex ed.

Speaker 2 1:08:09

honestly, I really feel like I would be one of those like pet names for genitalia thing Like it's not like what we really call it.

Speaker 1 1:08:17

But now I know it's a. It's not a pet name for genitalia, it's literally a name for another part of your body.

Speaker 2 1:08:22

Yeah, no, I love calling a vagina a vagina Love. That it makes me think of the movie kindergarten cop.

Speaker 1 1:08:29

Yes, my dad looks at vaginas. I do. I love him, that little boy. He was so adorable, oh my.

Speaker 2 1:08:40

God. I always have penises girls have, but I'm not that's. I'm pretty sure that's. He said that I think L says vagina.

Speaker 1 1:08:46

That is I just think, not on like she does on purpose. Yeah, I just think it's the cutest thing it is adorable.

Speaker 1 1:08:52

Okay, all right, okay, I'm so sorry you guys for spreading misinformation. She's the more you know. All right, back to how, to how to protect yourself from a victim. Say no with a smile. I feel like you'd be so bad. I would be so bad, like if someone asked for my phone number. No, no, I don't do that. I'm sorry the fact that, like I literally like changed my number one too many people have my phone number and I just like ghost the fuck out. It's like the ultimate ghosting. Like I give five people too many my phone number and I'll just fucking change it.

Speaker 2 1:09:37

How many times have you changed your phone number?

Speaker 1 1:09:39

several in like how long, oh my God. You hate confrontation? I do, okay, I will, I will ghost anybody. So lesson learned it doesn't respond.

Speaker 2 1:09:50

I just changed my number and I forgot to give it to you. Oh my God, okay, say no with a smile If a coworker you can.

Speaker 1 1:10:00

For instance, with a coworker you can smile and you can just say no. For instance, with a coworker you can smile and say something like I'll hold positive thoughts for the best possible outcome. Thank you for understanding that I'm on deadline. I must get back to my project. So it's, like you know, okay with friends and family you can empathize with their problems, but then say no with a smile by changing the subject and not encouraging their complaints.

Speaker 2 1:10:22

Mmm Don't enable it, so it's not like say no with a smile.

Speaker 1 1:10:26

It's just like I'm really sorry about that.

Speaker 2 1:10:29

Yeah, and then don't enable it. I'm just dodgers.

Speaker 1 1:10:35

Did you catch the Lakers game last night? Do you know what a weenus means? Whatever, so set limits with body language. This is a good time to cross your arms and break eye contact to send a message that you are busy or no longer interested. That's hard to do you know?

Speaker 2 1:10:54

what the worst is is when you are making a conscious effort to not have eye contact, not pay attention, and they don't pick up on it. Body language.

Speaker 1 1:11:04

They don't pick up on it. They don't pick up on it.

Speaker 2 1:11:07

Like no, you could be this fucking chair and they don't give a fuck. They're still talking.

Speaker 1 1:11:11

I could be having another conversation with someone next to me and they would still be talking. I think we get to that in a little bit. I think that might be one of the energy vampires. Number four, the drama king or queen.

Speaker 2 1:11:24

Mmm.

Speaker 1 1:11:25

These people drain sensitive people by overloading them with nonstop dramas, protection strategies. Don't ask them how they're doing.

Speaker 2 1:11:40

I would ask you how you are, but I don't give a fuck.

Speaker 1 1:11:44

Literally says you don't want to know, come on, you know. People like this, oh God.

Speaker 2 1:11:52

Yeah, I don't.

Speaker 1 1:11:55

Right, they're going to tell you anyway, exactly.

Speaker 1 1:11:58

They're going to tell you anyway but there's always drama, always, always, always. Breathe deeply when they start. Breathe deep, stay calm, do not get caught up in their story. Set firm but kind limits. You can maybe say to a friend who always cancels plans I'm sorry for all the mishaps, but let's not schedule things until things settle down for you and you can actually show up. I used to have a client I had several of them but one of them was like I would do 15 minute appointments and she would be 10 minutes late every time. I had several of those, but it got to the point where we would schedule her for one time and then double book and schedule her for the time after. God would tell her three o'clock. But that's not really fair to you.

Speaker 1 1:12:48

No, it's not, because it's taking up two appointments but I got to the point eventually where I would put someone in her original appointment. Like, if I told her her appointment was at three o'clock, I would book someone else for three o'clock. That's so smart. Move her to 315. Or like, just put a block there so she would still get the notification that said three o'clock, but I would block the 315 for her. But it's like, why am I putting up all this effort to accommodate you? Anyway, my whole point with that is every single time it was like a known thing If she books, book an extra 15 after her. If this person books, do not book her for this time. Tell her this time and book it for this time.

Speaker 1 1:13:29

Everybody knew everybody. It was always she would come in. I'm so sorry my car got broken in two. Oh my God, I'm so sorry I let my keys in the car. Oh my God, I forgot my. I don't know. It was always something and I would just stop being. I would like not even like acknowledge what she was saying, because I'm like it's every time, though At this point, it's the boy who cried wolf Right, right.

Speaker 1 1:13:59

Just say you can't be on time, right, like just say I'm sorry, I'm late, you know what she should have done.

Speaker 2 1:14:05

Stop making up the excuse. You know what she should have done Paid for two sessions.

Speaker 1 1:14:09

I know this was all pre-COVID and pre-mushrooms too Like. After that, I stopped giving a fuck and if you were 10 minutes late to your appointment, I didn't see you. You missed it and you missed it and you also paid Good For the time. Good, I had a lot of people fire themselves from me without me having to fire them. Good, because they didn't like the way I did that. Good, I'm like you've done it to me for years. Good, what you're doing now is holding boundaries. Did I ever do that to you?

Speaker 2 1:14:32

No, that is means I don't think we would be friends right now if you said Well, and it's hard for me to be on time with ADHD, but I try to be respectful of other people's time, so usually if it's like, I anyways go on.

Speaker 1 1:14:51

I get what you're saying. Yeah, you and I were kind of in the same type of industry, like people who are late fuck with our schedules in our whole days 100% If it's something that's not that big of a deal.

Speaker 2 1:14:59

That's what I was going to say.

Speaker 1 1:15:00

If I'm meeting you for lunch and I'm sorry- Not that you're not a big deal, I might be five minutes late yeah. Because I'm such a big deal. But I'm like it's not Right, it doesn't matter. You don't have a lunch appointment 15 minutes after me, right? Anyway, whatever Number five, control freaks.

Speaker 2 1:15:19

I struggle with these a lot.

Speaker 1 1:15:21

I'm like every single one of these. I have had to exit friendships of so many of these people. They always offer unsolicited opinions and then they proceed to tell you whether you want to hear what they have to say or not. Advice they continue to nitpick things. You're doing that wrong. You did this wrong. You should do this better. You should try this way.

Strategies for Dealing With Difficult People

Speaker 2 1:15:49

Someone I know is a control freak and I spent some time over the holiday with them and we were playing a card game so not that fucking deep with our families and she had to pick everyone's card, like people couldn't pick their own card and look at the card and read it, because she had to pick it and then give it to you and then, when you read it out loud, then she had to educate you on how to play the game and I'm like I think people know how to read and comprehend Jesus and I wanted to choke her, but obviously I didn't, but I wanted to.

Speaker 1 1:16:38

I'm trying to think of. Like I've gone on vacation with someone who I don't even know if I know them well enough to call them a control freak but when I go on vacation I'm not cleaning 24-7 and picking up after me, especially with kids. So like you've been to my house, like Elle will have like a bowl of ramen and she won't finish it, but she might finish it in a few hours or she might finish it in 30 minutes and she'll go back to it and eat it. And we would do that on vacation. Like our kids would have a bowl of spaghetti-o's. They would literally immediately come up behind and dump it, put it in the dishwasher my kids, 10 minutes later, where'd my spaghetti-o's go? And I'm like, yeah, like couldn't handle the clutter or anything out of place. I haven't gone on vacation with them since, but it was like that type of like control where I'm like no, this is vacation, you know.

Speaker 2 1:17:39

Man, what a lot of time like stressing about things that just don't really matter, like in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter. Like when you're on your deathbed it's not going to matter.

Speaker 1 1:17:47

Right, that's just how I see it. They also didn't have kids at the time, but I'm like dude, this is just life with kids Like yeah, kids are fucking tornadoes. Like, if you throw a sucker away that's been sitting there for three weeks, I swear to God, the second you throw it away they're going to come ask them for that sucker. Where'd that sucker go?

Speaker 2 1:18:06

Kai's favorite food is food that has fallen on the floor.

Speaker 1 1:18:10

I was saving that for later.

Speaker 2 1:18:11

What are you doing? Oh my god, there's an ant on it, perfect.

Speaker 1 1:18:14

Even better, it's the sprinkles Protein yeah, protein, extra crunch. So the ways that you can protect yourselves from them, be assertive, but don't tell them what to do, because that will only make them defensive. Instead, say I value your advice, but I want to think about how to approach this myself, or politely ask them to stop criticizing you. Be firm and non-emotional. Don't play the victim. If you feel inadequate, around a controller, identify the self-esteem issue that has been triggered and focus on healing it.

Speaker 2 1:18:49

I like that one.

Speaker 1 1:18:50

Which is really good, because I don't think if somebody gave me advice I would be triggered because I know I'm not going to take it Right, because I'm like in my head, I appreciate what you're saying, but I'm probably going to do something completely different. So the more secure you feel, the less they can hurt you. Number six non-stop talker they can drain the life force out of empaths with an endless verbal assault. They trap you, recount their life stories without pausing for a breath. They don't give you any openings to interrupt them. They can also move in so close physically that they intrude on your personal space. If you take a step backwards, they take a step forward. You literally can't escape.

Speaker 2 1:19:33

I love how each one I'm like oh, I really struggle with this. Well, because, literally, same.

Speaker 1 1:19:39

All of these I'm like oh, is it me? Yes it is, it's me. Ways to protect yourself. They don't respond to your nonverbal cues, so simply looking impatient or restless doesn't work. You have to interrupt them, as hard as that may be to do.

Speaker 2 1:19:58

It's really hard to interrupt a non-stop talker, Well, and it's hard to interrupt them because they don't take a fucking breath. So you're trying to find a spot to be like all right. So what are you guys? What's going on with you guys? To just try to change the subject in a gentle way yeah, but it's like they. It's almost like when you think you have a minute and they're like wait.

Speaker 1 1:20:21

Yeah, it's really hard to like, it's really hard to escape those.

Speaker 2 1:20:25

Do you know what I want to do sometimes with people like that? I just want to pull like a Frank Lloyd Dumb and Dumber and just be like meh, mock yeah in. Yeah, bird, yeah, yeah, yeah, ok, anyways.

Speaker 1 1:20:47

I would pay to see that.

Speaker 2 1:20:49

OK, I'll do it because I will always do a dare.

Speaker 1 1:20:52

I dare you to do that. It has to be in front of me. Ok, I take that dare. Ok, this is going to be awesome. I gladly take it. Oh my god, I'm so glad it's you and not me. It's always me, it's always you. I am always the bad guy. It's not a bad guy, you're just taking a dare. Ok, true, be tactful, although you may really feel like saying be quiet, you're driving me crazy. That's what I would have said. Instead, smile and nicely say something like excuse me for interrupting, but I need to talk to someone else.

Speaker 2 1:21:29

I think it's really funny thinking about me saying some of these things.

Speaker 1 1:21:33

No, because I can see you saying them Me and my villain era. Please excuse me for interrupting. I need to go talk to somebody else. That's me and my villain era. It's literally just having boundaries. Or I have an appointment I must keep and I have to go, or this one, she says, a socially acceptable reason to leave that I often use is I've really got to go to the bathroom.

Speaker 2 1:22:03

And that's true for me a lot.

Speaker 1 1:22:04

It is true for you a lot. I think you're like is she lying? I don't know, Probably not. She probably wants me to keep talking when she gets back.

Speaker 2 1:22:12

I'll just wait until she gets back, oh my god, I would kill myself.

Speaker 1 1:22:16

State a request With a family member or co-worker in a neutral and non-blaming tone, let them know. I'd like to add to this discussion too. It would be great if you would allow me to talk. Use humor with people who know you well, who will understand. You can jokingly say the clock is ticking.

Speaker 2 1:22:38

You look, that is such another boomer thing to say Clock's ticking, hurry up, get it out.

Speaker 1 1:22:44

Get it out. And the last one. And again, I don't know that the nonstop talker would fall under the narcissistic category. Honestly, I don't think so. I don't think so either, but number seven will.

Speaker 2 1:22:57

Oh, what is?

Speaker 1 1:22:58

that, or at least like the tendencies. Passive-aggressive people. I struggle so much with people who are passive-aggressive. I don't know how to set boundaries with them. I really don't. You know what they are people who express their anger with a smile. They sugarcoat hostility, but you can intuitively sense the anger behind it. I have a hard time with it.

Speaker 2 1:23:30

Yeah. So the funniest thing because I've gotten this a lot I don't know about you, about being in this space and then talking to people about it, the people who are like, yeah, but that's great that you do it, because all the trauma that you have, but I could never.

Speaker 1 1:23:58

Yeah, it is very passive-aggressive.

Speaker 2 1:24:07

Oh it's so passive-aggressive.

Speaker 1 1:24:08

You can hear the undertones beneath it. You can hear oh, they're not saying it nicely.

Speaker 2 1:24:15

Yeah, and I've gotten it from I'm not as fucked up as you, right, I've gotten it from friends, friends where it's like, yeah, that's so cute that you do that, that's great, like I would never.

Speaker 1 1:24:30

I don't need it near as much as you do. Yeah, that's literally what it says. They'll conveniently forget things.

Speaker 2 1:24:37

And I think people who are passive-aggressive like that they don't realize how eat, like how easy it is to catch on to that. I don't think, like I think it's their way to be, like huh, like I pulled one over on him and it's like no, you didn't, yeah, I'd see you right through that shit.

Speaker 1 1:25:01

When it says they're also known for making sarcastic comments about you and then saying like it was just a joke. Oh yeah, that's also a very like narcissistic thing to do Like you can't take a joke. I was just joking. It's not that big of a deal. Why are you being so sensitive?

Speaker 2 1:25:17

about it. Why are you so?

Speaker 1 1:25:18

sensitive, yeah, protection strategies. Don't question your response to a passive, aggressive person. Just because their anger is so hidden doesn't mean it's not real. Trust your intuition. I love that. I think that's what like, you have really great intuition. Some people may not, so I don't think it comes across as like so obvious to other people.

Speaker 2 1:25:43

That. Maybe that's what it is.

Speaker 1 1:25:45

I don't think it does. I think for you, it does, I think for me. I start, I'm picking up on it recently, but I didn't before You've gotten better I can hear it now Recognize the pattern and address the behavior with the person which is.

Speaker 2 1:26:00

It's really hard for me to do.

Speaker 1 1:26:02

Focus on resolving one issue at a time so the passive, aggressive person doesn't feel attacked. Notice how they respond. They might apologize and say you're right, I'm sorry. See if their behavior changes and if it doesn't raise the issue again, or simply accept that this person is not dependable and doesn't care what you have to say. If you can't get a direct answer, ask the person to clarify their position. It's important to address the behavior and find a solution. Being specific with someone who is passive, aggressive will make them take a stand. So this is what, in that situation, in my head, what I would do is what I would have envisioned you saying is like what do you mean by that? Elaborate. What exactly do you mean by like I need it, but you don't. You know what? How am I supposed to take that? Please clarify that and it in the moment.

Speaker 2 1:27:00

You are so right, because I should have done that In the moment. It kind of took me back.

Speaker 2 1:27:07

Trick or treat a little bit and it took me back because I immediately knew you're being so fucking condescending. You are being so condescending and I didn't know how. I didn't want it to be, because my initial reaction is to respond back with, like what the fuck is that supposed to mean? And I was trying to hone that in. But now I think I would have been like well, elaborate, like what you mean by that. Do you know much about it? Cause it's the people who have said it like oh my God, that's great that you do that and all, but I could literally never. That's fine if you choose not to, but you also know nothing about it and you're making a judgment on it. That's where I, like, struggle now.

Speaker 2 1:28:02

But if I were to redo that or if it happens again, I would totally that's the move I would use, like I would hope that I would be able to do that. Like put it back on them. Yeah, go ahead and elaborate on that for me. I'm kind of not sure what you mean. So that's all of them.

Speaker 1 1:28:22

But I like the way that it frames this because it says although you may be able to set boundaries and limits with energy vampires, it's still not uncommon for you to experience and I love that it says this word, that she uses this word emotional hangovers. That is the best description I have ever heard of being around someone who sucks the life out of me. It is an emotional hangover. I get emotional hangovers after I am like in an argument.

Speaker 2 1:28:57

And so do I and I bet, like in the beginning, like Tony, cause Tony didn't. Now he gets it. He gets it how? If you know I've gotten into a fight, or if I'm around a you know energy sucker, whatever, how, like I, literally they emotionally deplete me and it also because of the emotional depletion I feel physically depleted and mentally depleted.

Speaker 1 1:29:27

I think I'm going to use this because I think, because Maya husband isn't that type of empathetic person and is able to compartmentalize and people like that really don't bother him. None of those people like maybe the non-subtalkers, bothers him because he's so quiet, but none of those other people like he's so good, and I mean this in the best way, and you can learn from him too.

Speaker 2 1:29:53

It's a compliment.

Speaker 1 1:29:54

He's so good at not letting it affect him, at shutting it off, and that's the way he had to be growing up is not letting those things affect him. I get it. I get it, but it's impressive to watch. And sometimes, when I am depleted and I'm going to start using this as an emotional hangover, I'm going to start saying that because he gets frustrated that I don't bounce back immediately because I need time to decompress. So I think I'm going to start saying like I am feeling a little emotional hangover right now and it's going to take me a minute to feel okay again and to feel like I want to be up and around the family, because I will, like, literally, be a fucking recluse in my bedroom by myself. I will eat dinner in the bed if I am emotionally depleted.

Speaker 2 1:30:48

I will too.

Speaker 1 1:30:50

I feel like I'm not a good parent. I feel like I'm not a good partner. I feel like I'm not a good friend, and I know that I am. You need to give yourself. It just sucks because I don't want to feel that depletion. So because of that I protect myself harder.

Speaker 2 1:31:06

Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:31:07

And I'm just not going to be in a situation where I know that I'm going to have a hangover afterwards. Oh my God, it's why we don't drink. Why would you do that to yourself?

Speaker 2 1:31:19

But we do want to get drunk, just one time, just one time for all times sake.

Appreciating Bear and Expressing Love

Speaker 1 1:31:22

For all times sake, so we've never been drunk together. Yeah, so it's not really for all times sake, because there is no all times sake. It's a curiosity.

Speaker 2 1:31:30

I think we would have a bang in good time.

Speaker 1 1:31:32

We would have a really good time.

Speaker 2 1:31:35

We would just be so fucking hungover the next day Until we wouldn't. We haven't had that poison in our bodies for so long. We would really be hurting the idea of it even makes me sick.

Speaker 1 1:31:48

Yeah, I don't think we can?

Speaker 2 1:31:50

I really don't.

Speaker 1 1:31:51

We don't talk about it all the time, but we're like. But no, we would never.

Speaker 2 1:31:54

But no, Even like drinking, I'd be like aww.

Speaker 1 1:31:58

You know what I mean. If you could do it without the hangover.

Speaker 2 1:32:02

I would do it.

Speaker 1 1:32:04

Or and without the puking.

Speaker 2 1:32:07

Please include that I also get incredibly inflamed, that too. So yeah, without the sickness, without the hangover, without the inflammation, without the, everything we should do it.

Speaker 1 1:32:25

For sure. Okay, that was all I got. I feel like I can't read the whole book to you guys, but I wish I could. I really do wish I could.

Speaker 2 1:32:35

If these are things that you relate to, I highly, highly, highly, highly encourage you to buy the book.

Speaker 1 1:32:43

Absolutely Because the next chapter is like how to help with the emotional hangover.

Speaker 2 1:32:47

Right, because it gives you tools on what to do and how to help heal from that so Absolutely, it's a fucking great tool to have. See Bear's not interrupting us.

Speaker 1 1:32:58

I know we always talk about like this we don't give him enough credit, we'll start letting him down more. Okay, he just likes to be in the sun, I know.

Speaker 2 1:33:05

He's sunbathing boy, he loves it down here.

Speaker 1 1:33:07

You're right, I should let him down here more often.

Speaker 2 1:33:09

No, you're too fucking mean. Be nicer Mom.

Speaker 1 1:33:11

Oh my God, I am a nice cat Mom. I love you, bear. He knows it All right For all of our listeners. Thank you for, like I mean, listening to this one and a half hour episode. It's fine.

Speaker 2 1:33:27

It's fine. We fucked around a little bit in the beginning.

Speaker 1 1:33:29

Fuck around. And then we found out. No, we broke and churned it All right. Anything you want to add?

Speaker 2 1:33:36

No, this was great.

Speaker 1 1:33:37

Okay, such a good day.

Speaker 2 1:33:40

It was a good day I missed you. I missed you too. I love you, I love you.

Speaker 1 1:33:44

All right To all of our listeners. Stay curious and we'll see you on the other side. Bye.