Neurodistinct:The Black Dyspraxic, Tumi Sotire

Tumi is a multiple award-winning neurodiversity speaker, advocate, and researcher, committed to prioritising intersectionality in the neurodiversity space and raising awareness of Dyspraxia worldwide with his amazing platform The Black Dyspraxic.
According to the (now closed) Dyspraxia Foundation, around 50% of people with dyspraxia also have ADHD.  I am self diagnosed Dyspraxic, and I'm super grateful to Tumi for explaining the condition and his experiences to help us all learn more about the  neurodevelopmental condition also known as Developmental Coordination Disorder - DCD. 
Alongside his platform, Tumi is an early career researcher in Health Economics at Newcastle University.  He has set his sights on pursuing a PhD focusing on the economics of the inequalities associated with neurodiversity. He is also part of the Dyspraxia Collective and a TOTAL LEGEND! Thank you so much Tumi! 

TRIGGER WARNING: Contains swearing and some horrendous ableist language shared in the context of bullying and to make sure everyone knows not to use those words. Also mentions of Alcoholism, Drugs, Substance Abuse, Addiction, Depression, Anxiety,   Relationship  Struggles, Toilet issues, 

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SELF DIAGNOSIS IS VALID & ADHD IS REAL.
Big love
Laura

Transcript

So I've really got to rein in the rambles this time because my next guest and I rambled on for so long that this episode is a lot longer than intended. And that's why I need to wind my neck in. The thing is, this legend had so much incredible information to share and was such a joy to speak to that, yeah, I literally could have spoken to him all day forevermore.

So hopefully I've managed to keep most of it in, not lose anything important and still keep some of the lovely conversation that we also shared in there as well. Now, one thing that I have decided to keep in  is there is some really atrocious ableist language shared and it's shared in the context of my guest being bullied.

The reason why I've left it in is because just on the off chance that there is anybody out there who doesn't realize quite how unacceptable this language is. That's the reason why I've left it in there, so I just wanted to give that extra disclaimer. So, without further ado, I give you Toomey,  who is a multi award winning neurodiversity speaker, advocate and researcher committed to prioritizing intersectionality in the neurodiversity face and raising awareness of dyspraxia worldwide.

It is my absolute pleasure to introduce the black dyspraxic.  Hi, I'm Laura and I am ADHD  AF. So  blatantly obvious the late discovery diagnosis and treatment at 38 for severe combined type ADHD in 2022, not only improved, but genuinely saved my life, which I've since dedicated to fighting for change amidst the global ADHD crisis. 

As the acronym suggests, I swear like a sailor, and each episode will contain sensitive subject matter, so please always read the description before diving in, where you will also find a link to resources for support. These crucial conversations with experts by lived experience are shared to inform, validate, shame, eradicate, and unite the ADHD community, with a fair few laughs along the way.

I've been labelled too much all my life, but finally, I celebrate my Too muchness and use my justice sensitivity to let the world know that A DHD presents differently in each individual self-diagnosis is valid and that A DHD is not a trend. A DHD is real. And I want all A DHD as of all genders to know you are not alone.

The leopard is a symbol of Aberdeen, Scotland, where this podcast began. It also symbolizes bravery, the reclaiming of power, and I'm a total.  So Leopard Print has become the uniform of the ADHD AF community, uniting to support each other and push for change, which together, we can make happen. We are the Leopard Print Army.

Hear us roar. 

Could you tell me your name, please?  Timmy. My name is Timmy Sater.  And your pronouns?  He, him.  Your age?  My age is 31.  And your location?  Newcastle upon Tyne in the northeast of England. Lovely. I was there the other day. I'm going off piste already. Occupation? Yeah, we'll talk about that. Timmy, I am a health economist.

Thanks.  Yeah.  And your platform is? My platform is The Blackest Brexit.  Wonderful. And for fun, your favourite film?  My favorite film has to  probably be the Lion King. Oh, I love it. I love it. I still need to see it in theater, but yeah. I haven't seen it either and I've been meaning to see it forever. Lion King or Home Alone.

Just this kind of movie just done. Yeah, they really blessed my childhood. Yes.  Magical. Absolutely.  Your favourite animal?  Lion. Yes.  And, uh, what city in the world are you most like? That was a really interesting one and it got me thinking.  I will probably say Lagos.  Oh, nice.  And I think it's just because it's a city  that just represents me.

I was born in London, but I'm of Nigerian descent. I love the noise. I love the hustle and bustle. It's very chaotic,  like not a lot of structure, but vibrant, multicultural.  And there's a lot of business that goes on, a lot of entertainment. People are just having a good time, no matter how difficult things are, people are just having a good time.

So yeah, to be fair, I haven't been to many cities across the world, but I've been to Lagos a few times.  I love that. I really love what you said. No matter how difficult it gets, people are having a good time. I love that. Yeah, there's a,  there's a saying that  people in Lagos have, and I guess it's across Nigeria, just take it easy.

Stress, you know. And this is a country that sometimes, that doesn't have 24 hour electricity, you know. That's hot, you know. And when you don't have 24 hour electricity in the heat, sometimes there's no electricity. There's no, um,  icons or anything like that, but people are happy  and then even like, it's one of the happiest places on earth.

People are always smiling and just calm and peaceful when I think, when I think about My background with mental health and everything in the UK, you know, sometimes we forget that there's so many things in this country that we need to be thankful for.  And I think thinking about Lagos  reminds me of that. 

I love that. Thank you so much. Okay. I am so grateful to you for coming on because I've said many times on this podcast that I am self diagnosed dyspraxic and I've said it a lot. I only know the bare bones and actually I just want to know more about it and let the listeners know more about it. So thank you so much for doing that for us.

You're very welcome. Thank you so much for having me. Not at all. I know your podcast is one of the big podcasts in the community. So I really, really like the tour.  And everything, and it just looked incredible online, so the fact that I can be part of it is just really, I'm really grateful, so thank you. 

Aww, thank you so much, honestly, I'm so grateful. So,  let's do it. Tell me, please, Timmy, what is dyspraxia?  So,  before we, yeah, so dyspraxia,  The medical name for this bacteria is actually DCD, so Developmental Coordination Disorder.  And I think, well, I like to look at the origin of the name.  I think this is difficult to,  vaccine means action.

So, if you think about the difficulty in action, so,  dyspraxia is usually characterized with difficulty in coordination, and if you think about coordination, we're thinking about gross motor skills and fine motor skills. So, gross motor skills is movement of limbs. and big movements. So we're talking about difficulty with swimming, running, walking, your posture may be slightly different, but fine ways of skills are thinking about handwriting or ability to handle cut of you or, you know, ability to,  for personal care.

So women, dyspractic women may struggle to do makeup, for example, or, or some people may struggle with DIY. For example, I really do that. My wife does all the IKEA stuff.  But in addition to that, we have other things that struggles with, and I'll say that other things are probably more general to the ND community.

So struggles with executive function and organization struggles with  sleeping, certain people with dyspraxia health. Issues with, um, socializing  or speed of reading, for example, and, um, yeah, things like that. So, oh, or maybe even just thinking about time. So they might relate to things or hand them out and stuff like that.

So I think one of the reasons why you probably self diagnose as someone that has dyspraxia is that people who are neurodivergent, these These conditions or differences really merge and they really, really overlap with each other. I'm actually really passionate that  when someone gets screened or diagnosed for one condition, I truly believe that everybody at that point should be  diagnosed or they should explore the range.

Yeah,  so everyone has a full picture of what's going on, but the issue is most people that do the diagnosis or help or help out along the pathway probably are just specialized in,  or autism. They don't know what to look up for for the month for the multi things. So I love the term dyspraxia,  but I recognize that  the reason why we use DCD is that there's no medical consensus of what dyspraxia actually is. 

So we have the term developmental coordination disorder. The reason why I don't like the word,  even though it's the scientific term and it's the word used in the literature, I don't like developmental coordination disorder because developmental implies that it's only for children. Okay.  But you, you can't grow out of it, you know, adults have dyspraxia. 

Coordination implies that it's only to do with coordination  and disorder. I know we have ADHD and everything, but disorder, like really re emphasize the medical model, that there's something that has to be fixed. And I actually like the fact that there's no medical definition for dyspraxia because it means that, you know, Anyone that identifies as being dyspraxic or having dyspraxia can really define it themselves.

Yes. Because nobody has taken ownership. So, and also, I also say that the black DCDR doesn't work as well as the black dyspraxia,  so. Yeah,  that's true. It doesn't have quite the same ring. It doesn't, it doesn't ring. But you also have different types of dyspraxia. So you have verbal dyspraxia and other different types.

I know why in the medical field they want to be very specific on what we mean, but I think, so I'm really clear about these definitions and I think one of the reasons why I do that is because  I am a health economist. I have a background in medical science, so I recognize the importance. And I think one of the reasons why there's not a lot of  understanding of what the structure is, is because  Different people with different how to use in different times, but if you think about something like ADHD  or autism, dyslexia, or even Tourette's, everybody knows what that is.

Yeah, well, not anymore, yeah, yeah, but it's less definable. Yeah, there's a consistency in the terms, so whether you're looking at a website, a postcard, or even a research paper, it's Or talking to a clinician. There's a consistency. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. We don't have that with disruption. Yeah, totally. Do you know what?

I really liked what you said about, what did you say? So when somebody gets diagnosed with a neuro, notices that they are neurodivergent or gets a diagnosis, they should start to look at the spectrum of all the different things that could possibly be co occurring at the same time. And it's funny because for so many of us that discovered ADHD later in life, as we're going along this path, we're discovering what the co occurring conditions are that we've got alongside.

I feel like I'm collecting them at this point. You have some badges.  If you're in this space, even as an advocate, It's helpful to educate yourself. Completely.  You may not, you may vote. Um, I, in the way I produce content now, I made a very crucial decision  to, as much as I can, to stick to this Brexit content. 

And that was kind of like, I can't lie. It was also a business decision in the sense that realize that there's so many people talking about so many different things, the autism. I might as well stick to who I am, what I know. And if you like my USP  and basically make sure that even if I'm the only voice with this, but to make sure that And being true to that, rather than being lost about making content about autism. 

Yeah.  Because that's not really me.  And you know, I felt like. I agree.  Yeah. Yeah, but I do. Well, on that point about other, um,  clinicians knowing about all the other neurodivergent  conditions.  The truth is that our public services are not adequately funded. And we're struggling to get, you know, people that have ADHD are struggling on the waiting list.

Struggling.  People that also are struggling. So imagine then demanding all of, to have training and understanding. It's complicating the problem, but it's important. And this is why.  I'm quite political, but this is why our public services need to be adequately funded. And it's because a lot of us are struggling because of that, because in reality,  not a lot of us can pay for private services.

Yes. And the thing is, if you pay for private services, what you have is that  people of a higher social class are more likely to be neurodivergent. And that's not, that's not the case, but if it's a case where you could only  get the diagnosis from a private place and it's quicker, it then becomes a, you'll find that a lot of rich and wealthier people are becoming neurodivergent and getting support, while people from a lower socioeconomic class are waiting for services like the NHS.

The NHS is broken, so it creates an inequality within the minority community and that's not good. A hundred percent, so it's funny because, well it's not funny at all, but the other day, what day was it? I think it was Monday, I got a phone call through from the NHS in Norwich, where I used to live. saying that my name had come to the top of the list and it was my time to get assessed for ADHD.

Now I moved to Aberdeen, Scotland, um, whatever year it was, 2020. Yeah. So I moved here in 2020 and I let my doctor know when I found out that my husband's work gave me access to private healthcare and, and ADHD assessment fit into that. So I had the assessment two years ago, two and a bit years ago, and when I found out how easy it was compared to what was going on, how, how long the waiting lists were, how dangerous it can be.

I, that's what spurred me into action to start doing this podcast.  But my understanding was that that message had got given. So I didn't think I was on a waiting list anymore, but to find out on Monday, that's how long it would have taken. So it would have been five years. It would have been five years in total, whereas it actually took me three months when I had access to that privilege.

So the fact that you've done the podcast and so much there and you've become an advert,  that's actually incredible. Like for example, and I think the reason why it resonates with me is because  My diagnosis, I got, so I was diagnosed at four on NHS and stuff, but when I was 16 my parents paid for me to get a private  diagnosis so that I knew exactly what was going on, this was right before A levels. 

It prepared me for university,  but one of the reasons why I started the Black Desk Brexit is because I was like,  hold on,  a lot of people, even in the black community, unfortunately, doesn't, they don't have access to,  to what I went through, through private. And then I was just like, actually,  It's not even just to do with race, it's also to do with geography.

Because I'm from the South, South East,  you know, a lot more people down South have, have,  are more affluent to afford things like private health care and stuff. What about people in the North East of England? Yeah. That's where I am. So it's not just the intersectionality of race, there's class, there's geography, there's so many things that can dictate your likelihood of getting diagnosis.

And we know that, unfortunately, in the UK and across around the world, that diagnosis can sometimes be the key that you need to unlock the further support.  And that shouldn't be the case as well. No, it really shouldn't be. So,  you've kind of explained common symptoms and behaviours of the condition, but how, how is it diagnosed?

If you could access a dyspraxia diagnosis, what is the process? What happens? That's a really good question. I  recently did a post on this.  Um, so,  You can, you can go to your GP, most likely your GP  probably hadn't heard of it, but you can explain this to your GP.  And what they will do is they would recommend you to  a multidisciplinary team. 

On that team you'll have people like, so depending on your age, if you're a young girl, you'll probably have a pediatrician,  a psychologist of some sort. Um, I think on the place I talked about.  Clinical psychologist, but I realized that I can't occupational psychologist also can do it as long as the ACP qualified.

So, how professional qualification and you'll probably have an occupational health therapist as well. You can possibly have an educational psychologist. I'm a physiotherapist. The reason why physiotherapist is because it's also to do with, I've talked a lot about movement and you know, Mm-Hmm? how your brains and muscles coordinate yourself.

So  what, depending on where you are in the country, you have a mixed bag of all these people and they will do like an assessment and like other conditions, they will find evidence of the fact that, but to be diagnosed.  This coordination, the lack of coordination has to have an impact on your  day to day life. 

But also, because it's to do with coordination, they have to rule out other conditions.  So they have to rule out, okay, it's not heart cancer, okay, it's not epilepsy, it's not cerebral palsy, because there's other coordination, there's other  disabilities that have an impact on coordination. So they have to rule out all these other conditions.

Conditions as well to ensure that it's not that  yeah, yeah, so that's where  even something like this Brexit, even though you can self diagnose and stuff, it's really important to get up a professional  thing because.  You may think it's dyspraxia, but actually it's something else that you It could be something else. 

Absolutely. I mean, from my end, because I really didn't know anything about dyspraxia, I really thought  that it was  My little knowledge that I had was that it was to do with organisation. I didn't know anything about ADHD either. I knew nothing, right? And it's funny because what I used to say, my joke was always Gravity doesn't work for me.

I'm not held down to the earth.  I'm, I'm, I'm unstable. And literally I would have a fear of walking down hills because I just can't do it. It's like, I'm not still that there's no center of gravity. And then what became really apparent for me was that I cannot drive a car. I've, I've had a few attempts and I just, it's like, I knew in my heart that I'm never going to be able to do all of those things at once.

Like, even when I get to grips with how the actual mechanics, the machine works to be able to hold in my mind, the speed that I'm meant to be going at, the direction that I cannot do all of those things at all. And it caused me, yeah, a lot of shame and a lot of distress. But when I figured out that that was actually part of this mishmash of potentially dyspraxia and ADHD that I have, it's like, well, It's not my fault, you know, exactly.

Um, well, even, yeah, so you, you realize actually, there's a lot of things that we people do that require coordination. So cycling, for example, or, um, swimming, for example, even the,  even eating in a  manner that is not messy. I'm not spilling drinks down myself, like, yeah. It reminds me, like, you've got food all over your mouth, you know?

Yeah. Ensuring that your shoelaces are tied correctly. Yeah. The fact that you can tie bands. Or driving, for example, or let's even be lower. I know this is an adult, intimacy,  ability to kiss or, you know, that saliva is not everywhere. We're having sex.  These things require coordination and, you know, or dancing, for example, you know, a lot,  and I think this probably resonates with me as well.

Like, A lot of people, especially in the black, they were like, why do you dance like that? Like, you know, like my, my friends used to listen, look at me and be like, are we listening to the same song? Because you're going to be offended. You know? Sorry,  that's mean to laugh, but if you've got to laugh, it is funny.

No,  one of the things about being neurodivergent and being dyspraxic,  I've learned not to take myself too seriously because if you laugh, you know, it's comedy. I've been in situations where I have been the centre of the joke and because I don't take myself too seriously.  It's made, it's, it's mainly easier to build friendships and stuff.

Yeah. I would say  it's very important that you know the difference between bullying and banter. Yeah. Absolute. When younger I'll, I'll bleed a lot holding things like spastic later, so I should have probably put a trigger warning and stuff, but That's all right. I will do in the beginning. That's fine. Yeah.

These things are harmful and they're affected me. My, um, my insecurities and confidence, you know, so I've had to call out some people to be like, actually, that's too far. Don't call me that and stuff.  But, you know, I don't mind the occasional joke and stuff. Another thing that, um,  um, people that this suspected struggle with, and I struggle that is  people will say, why are you shouting?

I'm over here.  So that ability to  control. Yeah, I have that I've had to, this is why I've got one headphone on it's not because I'm a DJ is because I can't, I know if I have both headphones on, I will just shout at you. You just shout and people will just be like, why are you shouting? I mean,  tiny shoelaces, you know, the amount of people that will be like, your shoelaces are untied. 

I know I just can't tie them because every time I tie them, they get undone on the  I just tucked them in, you know, or things like as a guy doing cufflinks or doing a tie up and all of this stuff,  there's, there's, if you break it down, there's so many things that, or even, okay, your handwriting is a mess and people are like, Oh, you can touch type.

And it's like, no, because  that requires. Coordination and stuff like that, you know, obviously certain things are getting better, so you've got, um, um, voice to speech software and stuff like that, but these are, you know, basic things that people do that it just takes for granted, you know. But one thing I would say, even playing sport as well, but one thing I have learned and one thing I always say to people  is that  practice doesn't necessarily have to make perfect, but it can cause improvement.

And so my, even my mom would say, if you don't, if you don't want to me to do something, tell him he can't do it.  I will show you. Cause right now I can't judge.  And I've had lessons and I can't drive,  but instead of saying, I will never drive. I'm like, no, I'm going to do it eventually. Like I can do it. So I have this kind of like innate kind of like, okay, maybe I can't do it.

But if I need to, I will do it. I will do it. And that mentality is helpful sometimes, but sometimes you have to know how to pick your battles, what do you want to spend time focusing on, but you know, it's going to take a lot of mental energy. It's going to take a lot of spread. But I know that, okay, so for example,  tomorrow I'm playing in the football team, in the church football team,  and it's an 11 a side.

I'm not the best person on the pitch,  but the odds are when someone's going to pass me the ball tomorrow, I'm probably going to miss it, 50 percent of the time, but do I enjoy playing football? Do I enjoy kicking about? Yes. So you're still going to find me on the pitch, you know, and it's not allowing your  neurodivergent to limit you or to define who you are, you know, but yeah, just to keep on going. 

I love that. You know, I really liked what you said. Practice isn't necessarily going to make perfect. And I know a lot of people that listen to this podcast  have a lot of perfectionism going on. And it's that, that happens a lot. And actually like. Like you said, you pick your battles but also accept if you like doing something, who fucking cares if you're not that good at it?

Who cares if you're not, if you've danced like, you know, you're listening to a different song, you like the song, you want to dance, that's it, that's what you you need to do, you know? Yeah, absolutely. You know, the thing that you said about sports, because that was another one of the things that was like tick, tick, tick.

When I started actually looking at dyspraxia, it said often, um, people with children with dyspraxia will be opting out of team sports at school, opting out. And I was like, Oh my God, I used to write the notes all the time from my mom's hands. Right. I can't do it. Because I just was so embarrassed that if somebody threw me the ball, I'd miss it.

I'd trip over my feet if I ran, like I just went, Oh, I'm not going to do this.  Yeah, it's really, really, you're not the only dyspraxic that has told me that. And I don't know why, but for some reason I really liked sport. And even though I wasn't the best at it, I still played. Yeah, I think maybe it's because  my dad who was just really great was like,  actually,  you know, because we were a Manchester United, Manchester United fan,  and he said, think about all the players. 

Well, think about it. There's only one I focus in,  in the sense that  with sport, it's not just people on the pitch, but there's coaches, there's tacticians,  there's different things. And when it came to sport, especially I think that football,  what got me interested was the tactics and stuff that I may not be the best coordinated person, but I knew how to run into space.

I knew how to do things.  Do you understand? And also I think. Maybe it's because being a guy and even just even being a black sport is a big thing. And I would just like, I would rather  be involved. And even if I'm not the great, it's like, I still wanted to be involved. I was predicted like a D.  But I really push on my practice practice practice to  the point that my family were like, that's so commendable.

I ended up just because of that resilience. And I always tell people that some, some neurodivergent people are some of the most resilient people that you ever see, because you need to have that tenacity, we've had to be everything because the world has stepped against you, do you understand? And it's a kind of thing where I always say to people that by knowing the evidence and not an excuse, it's an explanation. 

You still have to be disciplined. You still have to be determined. You still have to make sure that you are not comparing yourself to anyone else, but being the best version of yourself. You understand? Yeah. Yeah.  Yeah.  For most of the listeners and myself included, we are only discovering our neurodivergence in adulthood.

I know that you were diagnosed with dyspraxia in infancy, but do you know what issues unidentified and unmanaged dyspraxia can cause a person? So if it is left completely unidentified through their life, what do you think the impact is? Lack  of self esteem. You don't actually know what's going on, you just know that it's different, but you can't put a name on that. 

And I guess that would cause frustration.  That self esteem piece is a big thing, but also it affects the mental health.  Yeah. Because it will just cause you anxiety, like, why am I struggling in  university, or why am I struggling at work?  You know, and the thing is, I think that's the biggest impact, not able to access things like access to work or disability student allowance, and being so frustrated about it.

I find writing reports challenging, or I find maths challenging, or I find reading compared to maths, and not knowing why, I'm not having an explanation, I think that's the big, I think that could be the biggest impact.  But I'm so happy, I feel like this is the best moment in time to be in Neurodivergent,  because It's our time.

Yeah. And I know I have a friend, Lucy Hopps, that her, her company is called the future is envy. And I completely agree with that. But not only that, there's so much content out there. Yeah. You know, all you have to do is go to your favorite social media and just type in what you think you have. And then, and something's going to come up.

You just have to hashtag  Yeah. Hashtag this back to things will come up, you know, and 10, 15 years ago, that wasn't the  case. So do you have access to work? Do you have that support? Yes.  Can you send me some? I'm still on the waiting list.  One of the things that I always recommend, and I think again, this is probably the advantage of being diagnosed earlier. 

Was because  being diagnosed at 16, before I got to university, I already had my disability student allowance, and that  was great because I got to uni, got my Q1 and stuff, but I already had support in my first term, so when I got into the world of work  after my master's, I was already getting the support as well.

However, I would say this.  Especially because I was looking for work at 2017,  I was disclosing that interview.  Oh, I'm dyspraxic and stuff like that. And everyone was like, what would that mean? What does that look like? And I didn't get jobs, job offers. It took me a while, but until I got to this point where I was like, okay, I'm not going to disclose it. 

Guess what, in a few weeks, I got offers. Well, I realized that what I need to do is, instead of, Maybe disclosing it in the interview.  Get the job offer first and then disclose it once you get the offer.  I know it's a bit cheeky and a lot, and I know a lot. No,  a lot of people say no, but find the right company for you.

You have to disclose it. It might make sense to disclose that in interview so you know it's the right fit. If it's not the right fit, it's feeling that you know beforehand. But listen, we live in a capitalistic. society, someone you've got to eat, you need to get a job. And I think I kind of had that realization that because of my name, because of the color of my skin and stuff like that,  disclosing my neurodivergence  too quickly is just going to be an additional barrier. 

But hey,  I'm so active on LinkedIn and social media now that  even if I don't disclose that people would know, I always say to people, once you've found one that specs it, that's exactly what you've done. Yeah.  Yeah.  So everybody's different. Everybody's unique. I tell people, chatgig VT is your friend. I know there's some issues with AI and stuff.

But if that's going to speed my work up, listen, I'm going to use it. Yeah, absolutely. I know that you prioritise intersectionality in the neurodiversity space. Do you want to say more about that? Is there any, do you feel like we've covered that enough, or is there more that you want to say? Yeah, I think you intersectionality  enough.

Very true. As you know,  it's because  these differences for a long time were just about white middle class men. Yep. And I think I'm probably  cisgendered as well, and it's the kind of thing where we now know that these are, it's  a lot different, there's a variety and stuff. And  intersectionality is not just about minorities, because  White cisgender men are part of that.

That is an intersection and it's okay. So it's about intersectionality. It doesn't necessarily just have to be about the minority. I know that  the concept and the concept on intersectionality was about including minorities.  But it's not excluding anyone.  And I think sometimes when we talk about it, we talk about it in that lens. 

I've talked about, I talk about the intersectionality of race, and I like to talk about foot from my experience, but  age is also a big one that doesn't really talk about.  Um,  class is a thing that people don't talk about. Geography, in the sense that not just North and South and East divide, but I know that if I was born in my, in my place of heritage, Nigeria,  I'm not going to be diagnosed that full.

There's no way.  And I've spoken to neurodivergent students or neurodivergent individuals in  places like Nigeria, Ghana.  Access to work is not a thing.  You understand what I'm saying? Support and  We complain about The NHS and to write, you know, complain about the system and stuff, but  even here, uh, there is an option to have some things with me may take long, but at least there's an option,  like American and stuff, but there's privatized, there's insurance.

So geography clearly plays  a big part. And so when I talk about  intersectionality, it's not just race. But I think one thing I would say is it's messy. It's difficult. It's not easy, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't do it.  Yeah. And I think it's absolutely the key. If we're not doing something from an intersectional lens, there's no point doing it because intersectionality ensures that nobody gets left behind.

You know, and that's okay.  And I think it's important. I think one of the big, important things is to to understand your privilege and to understand where you come from.  So I know that even as a black man  I still have privilege, you know? Yeah. Being a man. You know, being cisgen cisgendered man or  also the fact that  I went to private school from year one to year 11, and my parents were able to pay for private, um,  private diagnosis.

It wasn't the best private school, and it's not well known, but the fact that I was able to take advantage of small classes and all that,  I probably wouldn't have ended up to go to private school. a top university and then do a master's and now work in health economics research. If certain things are different, and it's, and it's okay to admit that without saying,  I'm not grateful for that experience.

And then to recognize that actually, it's really important that we, that we think about social mobility and all of that access and support, you know, and I think it's really, really important that people in a neurodivergent space, We encourage to bring other people along  and, and to make this content more accessible.

And I think this is why I love,  I love the work that I know that I read an activist on it. Because there's becoming a variety. Social media has been a vital tool because this information is accessible. You know, majority of people are online and stuff. But even without saying, without saying that, there's also digital poverty. 

So not everyone in the UK has access to the internet. So again, that's intersectionality again. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's thinking about all of these things. But I think the founder of, um, the person that coined the term intersectionality said, yes, it's messy. Yes, it's complicated. But it doesn't mean that we shouldn't do it.

100%.  When I was on your website, I saw a word I've not come across before. Neurodistinct. Yes. What do you mean? But I mean, I think I know what you mean, but I'd love you to Because I've not heard it before. Yeah. I think language is so important. Very much so. Right? And neurodistinct  just means  It's kind of like neurodivergent, you know, and let's just explain  just being different from what people may consider normal or average.

So neurodistinct means just being different.  So if something is distinct, it's set apart, it's unlike  other people, you know, it's unlike the norm, it's just different. So if something is distinct, it stands out. So when I talk about being neurodistinct, I'm like, yeah, it just stands out and it's a bit different.

So what you're saying is, and this is just what I'm taking from it, is like, obviously like we say, language is powerful, it's also personal, like. Is it that neuro distinct is sounds more positive than neurodivergent to you? Is that it? Yeah. The thing is for me, I use it interchangeably, but I think, yeah, I think there's a more positive,  because if you think about something that is distinct, you have the words like distinction, different. 

You understand something distinct. If something is distinct, it's standing out for positive reason while they're doing something that is negative.  Yeah, and I think it's powerful. I think it's really important because when we talk about neurodiversity, we think neurodiversity is just for people who are neurodivergent, but actually neurodiversity just means brain difference.

It's a subset. Yes, very. Yeah. I always, I say this to people that as long as you have a brain, you belong in the conversation. You understand big term, you know, but  neurodivergent or neuro distinct or neuro minority.  are words that dignate the fact that  actually we're different from the general population.

What would you like the wider world to know about dyspraxia? This is something that shocked people last week and I'm going to say this again. I know this is ADHD AI idea,  but  research has shown that  The Sprex is actually more prevalent in the population than the ADHD animals. Ah,  that is super interesting.

But, there's  definitely more research. Yeah, yeah. And  autism and ADHD were actually, yeah, it's more common. There's not enough research in any of it, so really. No, because  it's really important because I think people in a dyspractic community think, oh, we're just a minority and it's like, no, no, no, no, no.

It's not to do with the fact  that there's not a lot of us, it's just that there's not a lot of funding and there's not a lot of, yeah. Exactly. But the thing is, one thing I always used, I would like to say is that  we're a family, you know, when we need to be, and this is why I love the fact that I'm on the podcast right now, because you're showing that actually,  If we want to be inclusive, and we want to include  intersexuality, part of being  into the, yes, there's gender, and yes, there's race, and  if we're never divergent, we need to be neuro inclusive as well,  to speak about all of that.

Yeah, absolutely. As someone who has dyspraxia, sometimes I struggle with sleep. Yeah, do you know, Dr. James Brown said in one of the interviews, one of the times I spoke to him on this podcast, he said, um, it's funny because he hadn't spoken to a single  neurodivergent person who didn't have sleep problems.

And in a way, it should be one of the first questions. You've either got people that are tired all the time, that are struggling to get up, or you've got people like me. I don't think I've ever slept. I've slept five hours, more than five hours in one stint in my life, like I don't, yeah. Right now I'm sleeping a lot and I'm sleeping well, but there have been seasons where I just struggle to sleep.

Yeah. And sweaty eyeballs would be okay. Is it because your mind is racing or what do you think? Yeah, there have been some times.  But I think, say for example, I avoid coffee, I just don't drink it. Why? Because coffee is just a, no, it's a no go. I drink cokes now and again. My wife doesn't even want me to drink coke, you know.

Because it makes you agitated  or it makes you, yeah. Yeah, I know. Just to clarify, I mean coke as in Coca Cola. Yes. Well,  even from a  dyspraxia perspective, because we're talking about coordination,  even alcohol, you need to be careful with that. Do you understand? Because it's got an example, like a lot of people with dyspraxia struggle with coordination without alcohol.

So can you imagine? Yeah. So you have to  understand yourself.  and understand how your brain interacts with substances.  When I'm talking about dyspraxia, I'm talking about it from my perspective. Your experience of it, yeah. My experience, you know. Yeah. Only clinicians and researchers that can say, you know what, when I sample 200 dyspraxia, This is what happened. 

You know, I can't do that. I can't. Yeah, but that's what's interesting, isn't it? Because that's why we need both. That's why we need the personal lived experience to inform the medical and vice versa, vice versa. And we need to build relationships, but also. In the medical research now, and I know it hasn't necessarily collapsed on, there's something called PPI, which means Patient Public Involvement,  and so more and more, especially to get  the bigger grants and the bigger funds. 

Researchers have the evidence how the Cambrian people, the general public, how you, how, in some form, how the public are informing the research. And that relationship is getting stronger and stronger.  To eradicate the shame of the situations ADHD can get us in, to unite the community and to raise awareness about the condition, I always end on this question.

So I'm changing it slightly. What is the most dyspraxic thing you've done this week?  Because dyspraxia, sometimes it's regulation of your body and stuff.  So there's times when I'm just bursting for a leak. And it's just really, it's like, where's the toilet?  I know that. And sometimes you can see me just run into a leak. 

If I don't get there,  it's going to be a problem.  And these are the little things that I keep talking about. But yeah, I've done that this week as well. I've just thought of something else and I promise you, I'll leave you alone for a minute. The other thing that I was just thinking about, when I was looking into it and it started to line up for me, was this posture thing.

So I have got really bad posture and I always put that down to the fact that for a girl, I'm quite tall. I'm five foot eight. So I'm taller than the average woman. And growing up, especially, I thought that it was like, I'd got this slouchiness because I was embarrassed about my height and that's what I was doing.

And actually it wasn't until I went on tour  and I saw videos back of myself standing and talking that I was like, Christ, why am I standing like that? And I, I can actively try. Uh, I've noticed if I wear heels, they're uncomfortable. And it reminds me that I need to stand a certain way. It never lasts.  I always end up standing the same way and it's, I'm embarrassed about it, but there's nothing I can do about it.

Seemingly. Yeah. People with disabilities are more likely to slouch. I have a posture and that's because sometimes that muscle muscles.  Floppy. Sometimes their muscles are quite tense  and this is why physiotherapy can help as well.  Stretching is also  important. Having exercises that would improve your core muscles and just improving stuff.

But even, let's talk about exercise.  You know how you do go to the gym and your form is really important, making sure that you do things well to make sure, in a certain way, to make sure that you don't  hurt or pull a muscle. Yeah, so they're safe, yeah. Yeah, but as someone that's dyslexic, actually it's quite hard to do something in form, because to do something in the correct form, Sometimes it requires a lot of coordination.

Do you understand? So that's what I thought about. And if anyone is listening to this podcast, I would love to collaborate doing exercise, dyspraxic friendly exercise routines. Yeah. Because I remember doing Insanity.  I did that! Yeah, I did that a few weeks ago. Crazy, but how many of them, those exercises just required a lot of coordination.

Yeah, a lot. Even just stretching. And because it's speed as well. It's speed and coordination. Yeah. And it's like, and a lot of people that I was training with were like, you need to do this better. I went like, you need to shut up. I'm trying to do it the best way I can. Like. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.  Like if you know how much I'm trying to do all these things at this time and I'm tired as well. 

And actually I don't want to be here actually, I'd rather be in bed. It's so true, it's so true.  Oh I love it. Is there anything that we haven't covered or anything else that you want to say?  It's really important  right now that dyspraxia has a lot more attention and we talk about it. Even earlier on in the year, the Dispatch It Foundation, a charity, a national charity that's been going on for  almost 40 years, closed.

Oh no! Um, and the Dispatch It Foundation is the equivalent to like, the British Dyslexia Association or the ADP Foundation. It's a big national organisation and  it's closed due to financing.  Uh, and, and other issues and I'm part of  a group of people that have formed the Dyspraxic Collective  and we're trying to, you know,  we, at the moment, we don't want to say we're forming another charity or anything like that.

Well, just to create a space for, um, dyspraxic individuals, because it's important that we're represented. Um, some people were like, Oh, why didn't you just join another charity? Well, that means it's like, if you join, we're always going to go last. You're always going to be other.  So we actually did a campaign and we ran a survey and over 351  people responded  and right now we're going through that data about what, what did this, how did, what did the Spectate Foundation mean to you?

How is it going to impact you? And what support would you need going forward? It. And we're using that, going through the analysis,  and we're just here to support people, people that are dysplastic or people that  are self diagnosed as well, because I think it's really, really important, because if one neurodivergent condition gets left behind, we all get left behind, so it's really important that we flag up for that. 

100 percent And, um, another thing that I was going to say,  um, I think one of the reasons why I called it the Black Dysplastic is because And  in the black community,  sometimes stereotypically, we're known for things that have a lot to do with coordination,  especially in the media.  Like, for say, if we think about dancing, rapping,  singing, or being an athlete,  in sport, those are the things that,  People normally associate being black,  especially traditionally, and so growing up, I thought maybe I wasn't black enough,  which is obviously a sad thing, but actually one of the positive outcomes from that is because the doctors told my parents that I had above average intelligence.

So I've always been interested in academia and studying and stuff because I was like, okay, like you may be better than me on the football pitch, but if we have a math test.  And so that's always been, you know, I think that's just an example of me always trying to find a positive, always trying to keep smiling, always trying to spend things on his head. 

And one thing I want to leave encouraging people is that no one can limit you,  only yourself,  no matter what the label is, what the diagnosis is, if you want to do it, do it. Think about all the opportunities that this course has given you, for example.  And so I want to encourage anyone that's listening today, become an advocate, self advocate for yourself, advocate for people in the community.

Or you don't even have to become an advocate if it's that business that you want to do, or write that book, or start that blog, or take that career.  change or start in that business. Don't let your narrow divergence or narrow distinction stop you.  I love it. Thank you so, so much. I'm trying not to cry. I'm sucking in through the eyeballs. 

I love your work Tumi and I've loved meeting you and I'm super, super grateful for everything you shared because I've learned a lot.  Well, you're doing great work. I can't believe you were just diagnosed a few years ago. Yeah, yeah. So, how did you manage to  achieve so much consistency with the podcast?  And the engagement, because even though I'm looking at your page, you have 25, 000 followers on it.

Do you know what it is? Is a really, really genuinely very, very lucky to be here.  And um, ADHD, both mine and other people's. put me in a lot of bad situations and it really impacted my life in really terrible ways. And when I figured out what it was and I saw the problem, I just felt as in the problem of all the other people that are suffering.

You pair those two things together. It's like, one, I'm an alien and everything's terrible and why is my life so terrible and I can't cope with it. And then the other hand is, well, I'm not alone, but it's not all right that all these other people are suffering as well. You put the two together. And I really feel like. 

I have to make good out of this. There has to be good to come from this. It can't just be all of my suffering, all of those other people suffering. I feel like it has to, it has to get better and it has to happen. You know, I'm a bit,  something happens for a reason, whatever. You know, there are times where it's really, really tough.

To keep going, you know, churning out the content, you know, all of the stuff that goes into reaching out to people. But I would never, it's never occurred to me to stop. I couldn't, I couldn't stop at its core. All I want is for people to be able to access support. And that's how I see it is like, obviously all of us in this kind of sphere, we want change.

We want things to be better for people for future generations. But I also see. There are a lot of people like me that are just on waiting lists, that have had, you know, really adverse things happen in their life. It's like, I want them to not be failed again. Like they've been failed enough, you know? Yeah.

Well, the thing I'm saying is that if it's just strengths and it's just positives You wouldn't need support. No, exactly. If it's just trans. Exactly. If it's just trans, if it's just trans and positive, you wouldn't be on the waiting list. No. You would just be like, oh, I'm, I have engaged in fantastic. I need to say it's like a superpower.

It's good. But it's not like that. Do you understand? I do that all the time in the community. I'm like, at the end of the day, none of us got here from having a nice time, did we?  Don't you just love the way that I asked the last question and then we ended up carrying on talking even more? And honestly, that's not even the half of it.

We talked for about another half an hour and I honestly could talk to that man all day. What an absolute ledge to me is. Thank you so much to me. Do go and follow him, the black dyspraxic. That man is doing amazing, amazing work. So I've got to be quick. So the most I do usually think I've done this week is I booked an air appointment earlier in the week for tomorrow.

I paid for it. And then completely forgot about it until I nearly double booked myself, suddenly remembered I was getting my nails done tomorrow morning, I think, went to find the confirmation of which there is no record. And of course, I didn't put it in my calendar. So I have no idea what time the appointment is.

I know I definitely booked it because the money has come out of my account. So either I deleted the email or I literally am that bad at technology that I cannot even find an email. It is probably the latter. So God knows, apparently I'm getting my nails done tomorrow. We shall see. In Auditory Processing Corner, as many of you know, my husband and I are selling our house.

And he was talking me through the process, because it's slightly different here in Scotland than what we know down south. And when he finished talking he said, and then after that we just go to the seal pit. And I'm like, yeah great! I love seals, why not? Sounds like a perfect celebration. And to be fair, in my defence, my husband does say some ridiculous things, as well you will know.

But, yeah, obviously, he didn't say a seal pit. He said, then it will go to a sealed bid. Personally, I prefer seal pit. And, yeah, like I said, he does say ridiculous things. As you all know, if you listen to the monthly Most ADHD Things episode, the Most ADHD Things of May 24th, Have been very well received. I have to say it's my favorite one yet.

So if you've not listened, go and have a giggle at us raising ADHD awareness in our own ridiculous way. And thank you to everybody who sends those entries in each week on a Saturday so that we can make those monthly episodes and so that you can all connect and support each other. Similarly, If you would like to connect online with other ADHDers, you can join us on Planet ADHD AF, the peer support community.

There'll be a link in the blurb of this episode. But you can also connect with local ADHD adults in real life at one of the last two Alien Nation  So, Alien Nation is literally the most ridiculous thing I've ever done, but I'm also very proud of it because it's been very well received, and it's just always so wonderful to see you all, and I'm very grateful to you all for indulging my ridiculousness.

So, it is where an ADHD seminar meets a podcast. Bingo! And we sing karaoke and we just have a bloody brilliant time making local peer support connections and raising ADHD awareness in our own ridiculous way. So if you fancy it, I would absolutely love to see you at Margate Arts Club on Thursday July 18th or at Brighton Comedia on Saturday the 20th of July.

So the tickets are available via the link in blurb. Brighton is almost sold out, so if you are hoping to get to that one, I'd which will be the last of those shows. Grab your tickets quick because it's about to sell out. I'm very excited about Margate Arts Club, but I realize I'm rambling already. So, those two shows are ahead of hosting our own tent at Flakstock Festival.

Flakstock is a festival in honor of Caroline Flack, raising mental health awareness and money for charity.  several charities, actually. Now, it is an honour to be raising ADHD awareness there in ADHD AF Emporium. I'm joined by a whole host of ADHD AF podcast guests, and there'll be music, there'll be dancing, there'll be bingo, of course, there'll be all sorts.

But there will also be incredible handmade festival accessories curated by the one and only Steph of all the discos. So together we've created ADHD AF Emporium to support neurodivergent makers and creative small businesses. If that sounds like something you do, and you would like to be on board with our online marketplace and in person events, there is an application via the link in the blurb of this episode, and you can follow us at ADHD AF Emporium.

So if you've enjoyed this episode, please comment on the Q& A on Spotify, hit those stars, write a review, share it far and wide. We really need to get the word out there. Just like Toomey said, we've all got to learn more about neurodiversity as a whole and just getting any little thing you can do to help spread the word on socials or anywhere else would be very much appreciated.

I will wrap it up here and just say, I hope to see you in real life. at one of the last two Alien Nation shows or on planet ADHD AF. And I am off to, uh, figure out when I'm getting my nails done and looking to go and see some seals. Have a lovely  time. Ha ha ha! It's really late, I'm sorry, I gotta go. Bye!