For far too long, the Church has either ignored or villanized sexual intimacy, but God designed sex to be GOOD. In this heart-to-heart exchange, we dissect the often misinterpreted signals sent by church teachings that leave many feeling lost in their marital beds. We confront the realities of desire, intimacy, and the vital role of communication in nurturing a God-honoring union. We're laying out the roadmap for couples at any stage—single, dating, or married—to foster a fulfilling sexual relationship that stands strong in the light of faith.
For far too long, the Church has either ignored or villanized sexual intimacy, but God designed sex to be GOOD. In this heart-to-heart exchange, we dissect the often misinterpreted signals sent by church teachings that leave many feeling lost in their marital beds. We confront the realities of desire, intimacy, and the vital role of communication in nurturing a God-honoring union. We're laying out the roadmap for couples at any stage—single, dating, or married—to foster a fulfilling sexual relationship that stands strong in the light of faith.
Welcome to the Still Becoming One podcast.
Speaker 2:We are Brad and Kate and our more than 20 years of marriage. We've survived both dark times and experienced restoration.
Speaker 1:Now as a licensed marriage counselor and relationship coaches. We help couples to regain hope and joy.
Speaker 2:We invite you to journey with us, as we are Still Becoming One.
Speaker 1:Let's start the conversation. Hello everyone, welcome back to Still Becoming One.
Speaker 2:Yes, welcome back. Hopefully it's sunny where you are. It's dreary and miserable where we are.
Speaker 1:It is. It is yes, I prefer the actual cold and sunny than this.
Speaker 2:I think actually Pennsylvania, at least our area of Pennsylvania, has become like a new Seattle. I feel, like just all of a sudden, I live in this murky look, so that might reflect in our demeanor today.
Speaker 1:There you go, that's it.
Speaker 2:We're sitting here this morning drinking our coffee tea and trying to get excited about the day.
Speaker 1:Of course.
Speaker 2:Right. So, yeah, last week we realized that doing it in the evening, doing our podcast in the evening, led to a little bit more fun, a little bit more crazy. Yes a little bit more crazy, for sure, but yes, you can tell, I'm definitely a night person. Yeah. Yeah, I was still coming off of anesthesia, so I don't know what that makes me.
Speaker 1:You don't even know what we talked about, right? I do too I was not that coming off of anesthesia.
Speaker 2:I didn't say anything. Weird, did I?
Speaker 1:I don't know Do you have to go listen to the episode.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, I meant I didn't say anything weird when I was coming out of anesthesia, did I? No, you didn't, oh good, Because I was like there's no secret deep.
Speaker 1:At least by the time I got back there, you were pretty coherent Did.
Speaker 2:I fall back asleep, though I feel like there was a time they woke me up, and then I woke up again.
Speaker 1:I tried to get you to like have some water and the food like they tell you to and you were like I don't want to hear that and just sat there for a while.
Speaker 2:I'm sure I'll just, I'll just let you sit, I'm sure it wasn't that grumpy Was it, I'll just let you sit. I do remember saying I didn't want the food. I did not feel like food at that point. So, but anyways, guys, we are back, it's morning and it's dreary and we're going to talk about sex in the church, so hopefully you'll get not in the church.
Speaker 1:Sex and the church.
Speaker 2:Okay, wow, yes, I don't does that. Is that a topic that needs actually be?
Speaker 1:talked about. Okay, good.
Speaker 2:Because I'm thinking not, I'm gonna have to think about that one a little bit and decide my thoughts. But yes, talking about, as we continue our series on what the church gets wrong in marriage, talking about sex, because I would say a large portion of what we do is untangling what the church has confused about sex for couples, yeah, and some of it's larger, some larger messages that they communicate, some of it's through actual sermons, which would be a little bit on the smaller end, and then also that which would be in your own personal church, because the larger would be like what the church as a whole is saying, and then there's even things that are spoken to people personally that are very confusing and yeah.
Speaker 1:well, their messages like just don't that desire is somehow sinful, that you know we shouldn't even want to have sex and, of course, like they'll put, in the caveat before marriage, but they think that caveat doesn't actually get communicated very well.
Speaker 2:Well, and that's not true, why? Why would we only want it?
Speaker 1:when we're married, correct? Like, that doesn't really, does not reflect what real desire or how God designed us is, and that's part of the problem is there are generations of people who believe that sexual desire is bad. Yeah, or basically been trained how to not have sexual desire.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think I was gonna say or, but I think that really stems from nobody knew what to do with it. So if we know that God designed sex to be within the context of the marriage relationship, what do we do with the desire then?
Speaker 1:So we just tell people it's bad, tell them to turn it off Like it's a hose, right, and then so often mean, this is the joke that's out there all the time is like the church's message is sex is gross and bad and sinful and so save it for the one you love.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that message gets so confusing growing up.
Speaker 2:Sure, well, and we've talked about this before in other episodes, but the purity culture has just confused people completely.
Speaker 1:Right, if you aren't that, if you aren't doing that, if you are somehow, you know, dressing in a way that may show a little bit of skin, that you are causing other people to sin and you're bad, right. So your body is bad because you're causing other people to sin or right. Your desire is bad because it's causing sin, like all of those things, marriage, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I actually I know that I say to a lot of my clients sex is good, no matter what it's actually good. God designed it to be good Right Now. That does not mean that in the context of other relationships it is what God wanted for it, but it doesn't make it bad. It doesn't make sex bad, it just makes it in a context where there is like he designed sex to have a lot of other Aspects to it, how it bonds us together. All of these different things that is now happening in the context of a nonmarriage right.
Speaker 2:And so it doesn't make it bad, but it makes things confusing. It creates lots of bonds and baggage, right and complicated emotions. Of course, like all of it. Yeah but it doesn't actually make sex bad.
Speaker 1:Well, and this is the problem, and obviously we're talking about what the church does wrong in marriage around sex, and but it starts so much before that right, because the messages have Dramatically impacted how people feel about sex and how they can talk about sex right, which impacts your marriage right, and I think that is a really important distinction to make.
Speaker 2:We do have to talk about it way prior to marriage, because in and even if, because of what the church has communicated, and even if you didn't grow up in the church, you're getting lots of other messages about it Absolutely that are also not God's desire for that relationship for us in marriage. Yeah and, and and. Honestly, it gets so confusing because then you also have people entering into marriage and I think this is the church's responsibility in many ways that have no clue about sex.
Speaker 1:God's design you mean, they just don't have any information?
Speaker 2:I think both they don't have any information about what was God's desire for it to be in marriage context like his, his vision, as much as we can Understand and extrapolate for sex. But then also, they don't literally have any information about how sex works correct, and if they do, they got it from their secular friends.
Speaker 1:Right, like, and I think you're right and I will go the opposite direction.
Speaker 2:I do like to hear that.
Speaker 1:You know. I mean we've certainly seen lots of couples at the beginning of their marriage who just have very little Sexual education. They just don't know Anything. Right, and that's okay because you can learn. But you have to get through the very awkward Belief and and feelings of this being wrong, evil, bad, all those kind of things. Right in order to find that, the courage to have the conversations to learn right. So that's, that's the challenge there. The other challenge is, I guess, the exact opposite, that in absence of Information, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:You end up going and seeking it in places that don't give you very good information.
Speaker 2:Yes, how many people have we heard that search things online and then right, oh, I mean, I think there's a lot of guys that I've talked to who their primary sex education was through porn.
Speaker 1:Sure and look. Yes, there's stuff to learn there, but it's not good like it's not healthy. I don't think and it doesn't matter your attitude about porn. I think most people would admit that is not good sex education Correct, and so it's. It's missing the point right. There's a whole lot of Bad learning that happens there or that needs to be unwound.
Speaker 2:They also don't want to be the only person that doesn't know, and so right, right. And then there's also, like I think back to with parents, which I get guys, we have Walked through with four teenagers talking about these things. I'm sure we were, we were definitely more intentional than most parents. I'm sure there are times we didn't always make the mark, but we certainly were intentional about trying to continue that conversation. However, I think as parents, we fear that knowledge will somehow lead to action.
Speaker 1:Correct. And yet I think it's the exact opposite, right.
Speaker 2:It makes it this the forbidden thing, right? I'm not allowed to know about it, I'm not allowed to even right then I wonder well, what is it like? And the curiosity Creates a really interesting sort of culture around it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think you know we do need to change the way that we talk about it, because when we have this idea that sex is something that's gonna hurt us, then we go into marriage with this very twisted idea of what its role is.
Speaker 2:What do you mean by hurt us?
Speaker 1:Hurt like because, because it's sinful, because it's bad because it's like even if we, even if we know that isn't right.
Speaker 1:I think it becomes a side kind of fun activity kind of thing. It does not become the intimacy that God designed it to be, right, right, where it's like okay, yeah, I know I'm gonna have to have sex, yeah, right, like, I know that's part of marriage and that's about it. But like, the whole thing of actual desire for each other and being able to communicate desire for each other is turned off because we've just taught people, taught Christians, that that desire is somehow bad.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, and I think that also feeds into then the unfortunate message that a lot of people are still giving in churches that sex is just for the man.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely. I think, women get beaten up with this that if they enjoy sex with their husband, that there's something wrong with them.
Speaker 2:Absolutely 100%. I think they also get beat up if they're struggling to enjoy sex because they don't even realize where that message came from. It's so subliminal.
Speaker 2:They don't they're like I don't understand why. Why do I not want to do this Right and so either end? It creates women who are very confused and think something's wrong with them. I also think it creates some very confusing things in men too. How many times do we hear from husbands like I don't want her to think that all I want is sex, and yet that's what he feels? But you know what I will be communicated.
Speaker 1:I'll tell you, you know, I end up working with a lot of guys through these issues and we talk about, like fantasy and that kind of stuff and the most common thing that I hear from guys of what they desire and it's often not in healthy ways, but what they're desiring is someone who is coming on to attracted, to desiring them.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:They have this deep desire and they end up going to porn to find the person who is going to say I want you, yeah, and it makes me sad because that is what the church has robbed women of the ability to say without feeling like they're a word that I can't say on the podcast. Right like Okay.
Speaker 2:And you know, I didn't know. There were words we were going to say on the podcast.
Speaker 1:Well, we can say it, this is an adult podcast, but you know we talk about adult themes. But you know I don't want anyone to feel like they are a bad person because they have desire for their husband in that case, but that's what guys are often looking for. But I think wives are taught that they can't. Right and they have to be reticent about sex they have to be the ones putting the brakes on.
Speaker 2:Right, right, well, and I think there's some chemistry things and the way God designed men and designed women that unfortunately also impact that about. You know, we talk about a man's desire and when it comes in the process of having sex, a woman's desire, when that joins because it usually is later, not always, and so some of the things I think God designed, as we said previously, to continue that dance of give and take together then becomes almost part of the problem, if that makes sense, like here's the thing, guys. It just gets all so stinking twisted, and the church, in my opinion, has contributed to that more than even secular culture in my mind. Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1:No, and it comes. It's been around for a very long time. I mean, we joke. We have a book that your great grandmother had.
Speaker 2:It's just my grandmother, yeah, but now it feels like she's great because we're old.
Speaker 1:Okay so, but it was right from the 1850s, 60s that was a handbook for wives and in there right it says very clearly it says the wife's job is to submit sexually to her husband and start to wean him off so that, after her childbearing is done, she can get on with her life without having to worry about that.
Speaker 1:Right, without having him kind of like hound her Hound her Like that's that was taught to wives about their attitude about sex, and that is all coming from a Christian idea that somehow saying that purity is the ideal, and wants to even continue that in marriage, which is ridiculous.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just heard from someone in the last couple of weeks that there was a resource I don't know what the resources, thank goodness where they were a Christian resource where they were telling people that you should not have sex more than once a week because, if you are, the husband is not able to control his desires and therefore will need it outside of marriage. I'm like there are so many things wrong with that and I must say, when someone shares something with that, I'm like okay, kate, remain calm, remain calm. How?
Speaker 1:do you answer it? Don't remain calm, that's ridiculous.
Speaker 2:Well, you've got to consider who absolutely. But you know you want to be gentle with the people. It's not. You don't want them to think it's their fault for believing it. Right and so. But I was like oh, oh, my goodness, like you know, and this person was just saying like how much is too much? And I was like there isn't. As long as both people are consenting and desire it, at that time there needs to be no coercion, right no if that is the case, there is no limit to what it can look like.
Speaker 1:Our answer because we get asked this all the time of appropriate frequency, and our answer is this really really broad spectrum from it should not have to be the keyword being have to be right every day. Yes and if it's less than, or if it's like once a month, you need to be asking some questions are are you connected in other ways? Are you feeling connected or is that okay for both of you?
Speaker 2:right like. But somewhere in that really broad spectrum there is what both of you feel okay about, and I know this is not really our topic right now, but I think it's important to the bad education that's still happening right, and I'm like, what resources still saying that? You know, there's just so much fear based in that and there's this we can't see the good in what God created, so we have to limit it. And and that's not saying that there aren't limits and boundaries around sex there are boundaries around, everything right.
Speaker 2:We don't get to eat as much food as we want all the time. Even though food is good, god created it for good. He created our bodies for good. He created food for enjoyment. And don't tell me you didn't, because it's gonna be in heaven. It wouldn't. Wouldn't have it in heaven if it is orio's in heaven gosh, I don't know, I haven't contemplated that. I hope so I hope so.
Speaker 2:I don't know if God's gonna take things that were made from here and take them to heaven, but if he was gonna, that would be a good one orio's would be a good one. Okay, my London fog anyways, moving on.
Speaker 1:I think your point that it is, it is good it is, it is never taught it is good, but we still do have boundaries around it right.
Speaker 2:There are times where one or both of you are not feeling up to it or something's going on in life like there are boundaries we do draw around it. That is a normal part of a healthy sexual intimacy, and so I don't want people to think, oh, we're not doing it right if it's just not a free for all all the time, no life intrudes and sometimes that's not the space you're in and your spouse needs to be able to honor that. But they're really outside of those normal healthy boundaries of respecting each other, taking care of each other in other ways. There there aren't quantity boundaries correct right?
Speaker 1:no, I absolutely agree. And look, I challenge all couples to spend some time in song of songs in scripture and read it together if you haven't read it in a while. It is love poetry that uses a whole lot of symbolism that, once you've had sex, you start to understand what some of this is.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, I know you love it, but sometimes I'm like. Why would you refer to her breasts as gazelles?
Speaker 1:no, the kids, that no, there is, yeah, no it's their font. Yes, and I'm like. I'm sorry, dude, I'm just gonna be brutally honest here for a moment. There's garden.
Speaker 2:I look at the girls every day in the mirror and I have never thought, wow, they look like fawns well.
Speaker 1:So if I can say this nicely, it's cuz your skin color is different than hers.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, okay fair enough, we're getting a little bit, probably more than people want to think about. However, there is some of the imagery in there. I'm sorry, maybe it's just that I'm a woman or less poetic, but I'm a little like yep, but okay he was in his cups, talks about those. He talks about her garden he talks about again, I'm not sure I like being considered as a garden.
Speaker 1:I understand, but you know what? There is a whole lot of sexual imagery and guys. We're talking about scripture here, right, and I yeah, I've seen all the arguments, I've seen all the things that are talking about. Oh, this is how you know God's analogy for how he loves the church and I okay, you know what I see the passion of a husband for a wife in, in there.
Speaker 1:I'm for the church, right, you get that but it is full of desire and passion and it is good and yeah that's something that we need to be talking about is saying desire is healthy, it is good and we should be able to express it to each other yeah, no, I agree, just not sure what I completely think about the injury.
Speaker 2:But when I get to go, when I get to heaven, god's gonna completely help me to understand his.
Speaker 1:Let's just say if there wasn't imagery and it was more direct, I don't think it would have made it into scripture, because then we've been afraid of it harm a sutra instead of scripture theologians debate whether it is actually talking about that, and probably because, again, of the fear we feel about being okay with that being about it.
Speaker 2:I'm okay with it being about it. I'm just not always loving the imagery that is used. It seems foreign to me, correct, but but I think that's a really good point. Like, why are people still debating it? Of course, we're always trying to figure out what scripture means. That's part of what we do as believers but I think it is a lot of the fact that it's based around fear and that subject yeah, because we don't want to say that that desire is good, right and we're fearful of if the desire is good Right.
Speaker 2:What do we do with that?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:What does that mean? So what does that mean for me as a teenager or an unmarried person, right when I have the good desire, but I can't act on it?
Speaker 1:That's what a church needs to be talking about.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Because they all have that desire right, yeah. Yeah, and so, instead of saying, oh, we have to squash it it's, how do we celebrate the fact that it's there and be totally upfront with hey God, saying this is for later because it is so good, mm-hmm, because it is for your marriage relationship to grow, the two of you together. That's why it's there to wait, but the desire that you have isn't bad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's get practical. I'm curious what would you tell someone who's like okay, that's great, I can celebrate it, but what does it look like Like? What do I do with that?
Speaker 1:Well, I mean one of the things that we used to tell couples all the time that we're in premarital, when we would enter this topic, we would be like, look, we're going to be talking about sex, this is part of it. They always get really uncomfortable and they get uncomfortable and they get nervous right and we kind of would say something like you know, we want to talk about that desire, that you have for each other, and if you don't have that desire for each other, we need to have a very different conversation.
Speaker 1:And they usually laugh and they kind of chuckle and they go no, no, no, it's there.
Speaker 2:We haven't had any. I don't think we've ever had a premarital couple, but we've had couples that are married, married couples come back and go.
Speaker 1:I never had that and somehow felt like they should just still go ahead with the marriage. But so you know, I think there is a place when we normalize it and we say it's okay, right. Then there are places that it's like okay, how do you nurture each other, how do you take care of each other? Because that desire is yes, it is a physical desire, but it's more than that too.
Speaker 2:Okay. So if the desire is there, we can be okay with it. It's good, there's nothing wrong with it. How else can I take care of myself? Like that isn't, I'm not married yet, I'm not in a relationship, committed marriage relationship. So, like, how else can I take care of myself? What does that look like? It's the same way, guys, when you're like I can't have that second piece of chocolate cake, but I'd really like it and actually you probably could go get it, but okay, would not be good for me.
Speaker 2:I'm having. You know I need care in some way right now, and so what other form of care can I do to take care of myself? That is actually really healthy and really good and honors me Correct? So would that be what you would help someone?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. It's actually paying attention to what you are feeling rather than just getting caught up in the you know the moment, or the thought. What is my, what is desire, what is my desire?
Speaker 2:How do I?
Speaker 1:actually pay attention to what I'm thinking and feeling. How do I express that desire in a way that's healthy, that's not coercive?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Right that we can do that, and how do we move towards a deeper relationship through that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Learning how to express desire for each other is a skill that goes into marriage, and so often we talk with couples that this is a key problem is that people have never learned how to express their desire for one another, and so initiating sexual intercourse in marriage is still difficult.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:Because they've never figured out how do I do that conversation in a healthy way?
Speaker 2:Well, and also what we said of what do you do when it is not a possibility in marriage, because there will be lots of times.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And so how are you going to take care of yourself? That handles that desire that you had, but that is not a potential for how to express it.
Speaker 1:Want to go on record. Guys, we don't die if we don't have sex.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying, right Like, we can survive. There is a desire, there's a drive for it, but it is different than like thirst, right Like, if we don't have it, we don't die, and I think it's important to recognize that.
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's important to recognize and we're going to bring it back to the church here but, like for individuals like you, actually have a relationship with desire. All day long you may be at work and at two o'clock, after that nice big lunch you had, you have a desire for a nap.
Speaker 1:For sure.
Speaker 2:But you've learned to say that's not possible.
Speaker 1:I can't have that right now.
Speaker 2:I'm going to go get a coffee, or I'm going to go get some water. It doesn't always have to be that you're getting caffeine. I'm going to go walk around the office for a few minutes and wake myself back up. Correct Right, that is. I'm caring for this piece of me that I can't really do what I would really like to do right now, but I'm still going to take care of myself, that's good, yeah, that's exactly right. There's also the opportunity to just ignore it right and not take care of yourself which leads to other things Leads to problems in the long run.
Speaker 2:Talk about that in another podcast. But there should be this checking in with yourself and okay, I can't do that, but I can do this, and so just understanding that, yeah, so I think that is something the church needs to be teaching.
Speaker 1:In fact, I want to just say scripture starts there when it talks about marriage right. In the teachings of Paul, when he talks about who should get married, he literally says, hey, if, if you can wait, if it's not something that you're Desiring, don't, because you can devote a hundred percent of your time and your, your focus, to God, that would be great. But if you are burning with desire for a person, then, yes, go get married.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm right.
Speaker 1:So Paul actually recognizes that that passion that we have is a reason to move towards marriage right so why are we ignoring and teaching people that that's bad?
Speaker 2:right.
Speaker 1:Right, it's good God put it there, it has a belonging. And look Back then, when, even in that time period, we're looking at a process of betrothal. It's not like they went out and got married that night, right? If this isn't Vegas, this was you know, the Bible Wasn't no right, like so that it was. That wasn't an option. There was a process of betrothal.
Speaker 1:There was a process like that sometimes took a long time right Also, yeah, that burning with passion did not kill you while you were working towards marriage, sure, but it was good and it was embraced. And I think what we do wrong is saying that passion is wrong and you have to stuff it and you have to pretend it's not there. Yeah, that does damage right saying yes, I really desire this person and learning how to express that in healthy, nonsexual ways for a time. Yeah, that grows your relationship.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's good. I also think in that within this subject there is also how the church handles when people have had premarital sex, or yeah, I guess it would. It would be premarital sex mainly like Outside of the marriage relationship. Oh well and here they've also done that historically pretty Crappy yeah, absolutely, and we've heard a lot of people by our response.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I literally remember sitting in youth group being taught no good story ever starts there the the masking tape Metaphor okay, remember, I didn't, I didn't go to youth group until later.
Speaker 2:So what is the masking tape?
Speaker 1:So, they, they, you know, bring a Couple up on stage and they have masking tape, like and they, you know, do something and put the masking tape you know his masking tape on her, and and it sticks, and they're sticky there and then and they take it off and they put it on somebody else. And it doesn't stick as well, and then they put it on somebody else and they go and then finally you get married to this person and the Masking tape falls off right, because all the sticky is gone trying to imply there is that, and there is this piece that God has designed sex to be a connector, to do that.
Speaker 1:But what they're using is shame, that if you go and sleep around you're not going to be connected to your spouse or you're not gonna have this wonderful, you know stickiness for them.
Speaker 2:And we will acknowledge it brings baggage and it brings it does, brings that you have to work through.
Speaker 2:We've never seen a couple where, but we've never seen a couple that's had premarital sex. That that isn't a piece of it. However, it's hard to know what is because of the shame the church has brought. I also think we naturally feel shame About sex. We see that. We see that, I think, in scripture all over, that it is something Amazing and important, designed by God. So it's easy for it to be distorted and shame filled. But yes, like I Think it's really interesting how we shame people and historically the church is shamed, just the woman.
Speaker 2:Yeah if there's evidence, right, if there's a pregnancy, and it's okay. Like to shame them, but not the man who can hide and not have any responsibility. That's not everyone, but I think historically too, instead of, you know, trying to understand why someone is Having premarital sex and what, what is it? What is it filling for them? Instead of starting there, of let me help you and let's figure this out. We just shame them.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:And then, according to that, what I got out of the masking tape is your damaged goods.
Speaker 1:Exactly right.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So how is this ever going?
Speaker 2:to be good and, yes, there will be challenges. There are always consequences to the things that we do. Everything has a consequence, so there will be challenges, but God is good and he wants good things for your marriage.
Speaker 1:And that's the other problem is when we say problems come from misbehavior, like you know, oh, if you're having sex you're going to have problems. We miss the fact that you know what? Pretty much every couple has challenges in their sex life at some point. Right, right, all of us have to do that and we aren't talking about that. And look, I think our next episode we're going to be talking more about marriage care in general, like how the church should be helping in marriages.
Speaker 1:Because it's one of the things that we see all the time is, churches ignore the fact that couples go through challenges. So how do we invest in the people that are in our congregations, in the church, to say we love you and we want to help? But that issue of, oh, you might be having a challenge in your sex life is certainly not something that we have a lot of, absolutely. Your church is talking about.
Speaker 2:So what I mean? We're going to get into more of this next episode of, like church care for marriages, and there will be some aspect to this, because I think sex is one of the places that it's very needed, but it will more be the whole of marriage. So what would we say? Or would you say, you know, when we're talking about sex and the church has done it so poorly, what are some things that they could do, churches in general, that would help alleviate some of this?
Speaker 1:That's a great question. I think you need to start at all ages about talking about healthy God given desire, Like how do we?
Speaker 2:do that All ages? Yes, right In church, when, like this, is a Sunday school lesson.
Speaker 1:I think it can be.
Speaker 2:Just pushing back a little bit Right.
Speaker 1:I think it can be. I'm not saying that you're going and talking about sex with little kids.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:But what does it mean to want something, and how do we deal?
Speaker 2:with so desire.
Speaker 1:Right Like just desire in general and that those can be good, that God does put desires in our heart.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:That they're not bad, but that doesn't mean we can automatically get them Right. Like, how do we balance that? How do we, you know, wait and be patient for desire and all of those kind of really good lessons that are there? So I think those you know get there. I think we need to be talking about sex in our youth groups and those kind of things. I honestly I think every church should probably have a. How do you talk to your kids about sex? Talk, talk to the parents, because the parents still don't do it.
Speaker 2:But I actually think that needs to start in elementary school.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Because you actually need to do helping them what's appropriate to talk about in elementary school, what's appropriate for, like, middle school and high school, and understanding that there's some ebbs and flows there based on your kids and what they're asking. But the problem is most parents start way too late and give way too little information.
Speaker 1:Right, we're not at all so like. I think the church can be the the conduit of teaching parents how to do this well.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So that we're not just relying on the schools to do it or porn to do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But we're actually encouraging healthy education.
Speaker 2:Yeah, healthy sex education, which we should absolutely be doing.
Speaker 1:Right and I so I think all of that. I think you need to have good premarital coaches who are? Willing to talk about sex who are not, you know, you actually have to challenge them to go. Are you going to have the conversation about sex? And what happens if you get a couple who knows nothing? Right, Because we've had those couples who literally do not know how sex happens and you have to explain it.
Speaker 1:How are you going to feel about that Right, like that is real and it happens, and so having you know, just think what happens if that couple doesn't have that education, right, like that's going to be so hard for them for a long time.
Speaker 1:So, you know, having compassion in but making sure you have premarital mentors who can do that and who are willing to go there with love and compassion with people. Yeah, and we don't stop there. We talk about it and hopefully there's marriage classes and there's other things where we are saying, hey, every couple has challenges in their sex life.
Speaker 2:at times we can talk about that too. Right, right, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1:That's where you start.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it comes into, like the pastoral care realm, that that becomes a topic that you can discuss.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And you can have openness about, and it's not all one person's fault.
Speaker 2:I think when we don't have that healthy sexuality as a goal of your church, so influencing from elementary school on it breeds not talking about it. Or and there's probably lots in between here or we get pastors who get up on stage and who are it's a very powerful, warped sense of sexuality, right? So we either have nothing because we're passive and we don't know what to say or we end up with people who are saying some really crazy stuff and it's like, how is that mutual?
Speaker 1:and good, and that goes into what we talked about last episode of how Abuse Churches ignore sexual abuse and often uses scripture to support it.
Speaker 2:I was going to say, or even are preaching. They're not preaching abuse from the stage. Don't get me wrong. What they are preaching can easily become abuse, because it's not proportioned and healthy Cared, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I hope that gives you guys some ideas, as we're, you know, continuing to talk about how can churches do it better. Our goal is not to tear down the church by any means, but to say we need to do this better because it's absolutely affecting.
Speaker 2:God is the one who designed it. We should be the university teaching healthy sexuality.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Well. I hope you enjoyed that. That's all for this time on Still Becoming One. Until next time. I'm Brad Aldrich.
Speaker 2:And I'm Kate Aldrich. Be kind and take care of each other.
Speaker 1:Still Becoming One is a production of Aldrich Ministries. For more information about Brad and Kate's coaching ministry courses and speaking opportunities, you can find us at aldrichministriescom For podcast show notes and links to resources in all of our social media. Be sure to visit us at stillbecomingonecom and don't forget to like this episode wherever you get your podcasts. And be sure to follow us to continue your journey on Still Becoming One.