Navigating the waters of sexual intimacy in marriage can often feel like we're trying to decode a mysterious language. How do you pursue your husband? How do you cherish your wife? This heart-to-heart isn't shy about addressing the pressures and expectations that color our perceptions of sexual intimacy. We're tearing down misconceptions and revealing how a genuine and caring approach to romance can deepen connections and dispel barriers. Whether you're the higher or lower-drive spouse, our candid chat aims to guide you toward a sexually intimate connection that's authentic, not just a means to an end.
Navigating the waters of sexual intimacy in marriage can often feel like we're trying to decode a mysterious language. How do you pursue your husband? How do you cherish your wife? This heart-to-heart isn't shy about addressing the pressures and expectations that color our perceptions of sexual intimacy. We're tearing down misconceptions and revealing how a genuine and caring approach to romance can deepen connections and dispel barriers. Whether you're the higher or lower-drive spouse, our candid chat aims to guide you toward a sexually intimate connection that's authentic, not just a means to an end.
Welcome to the Still Becoming One podcast. We are Brad and Kate.
Speaker 2:In our more than 20 years of marriage, we've survived both dark times and experienced restoration.
Speaker 1:Now as a licensed marriage counselor and relationship coaches. We help couples to regain hope and joy.
Speaker 2:We invite you to journey with us, as we are still becoming one.
Speaker 1:Let's start the conversation. Hello everyone, welcome back to Still Becoming One.
Speaker 2:Yeah, welcome back.
Speaker 1:We're glad that you're here today.
Speaker 2:We're glad to be here today too, we are we are.
Speaker 1:So what's been going on? You're asking me I don't know, it's been crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, last time we were with you guys, we talked about going away. We couldn't wait. We were so excited. We looked forward to those times.
Speaker 1:So much Thank you.
Speaker 2:Brad was sick the whole time. So, yeah, we got the chance to navigate that and take care of him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was not fun.
Speaker 2:Drive six hours down. It was a little less coming back without the traffic to just sit together, sit in the hotel room because I was we walked around a little bit for what you could handle. But you know, I think so many times the enemy is trying to completely destroy those times that you plan, and I think earlier in our marriage that would have caused both of us a lot of distress. Sure, but I don't know. I mean, I know you felt bad.
Speaker 1:I did Literally physically, but also I just felt bad, that like we had this weekend away that we were going to go and we had organized a plan to spend and it kind of just yeah, we didn't do much of anything, right?
Speaker 2:Well, I don't think that's so bad. Like, to me that's not necessarily a problem. We go to relax and of course we wanted to walk around and stuff, but we were worried because some of his symptoms were concerning on Saturday, so I wasn't sure if we were going to have to find an urgent care or whatever. So that part was really like I felt. You know, that part was hard, but as far as the other, I was like I don't care, as long as you're okay, as long as we get to hang out together. So yeah, so that was our last weekend, guys.
Speaker 1:It didn't work as it didn't go nearly as well. But it is this place of trying to be kind to each other and know that none of that's a purpose. Of course you were trying to take care of me and I was trying to push through and not be miserable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was, we did our best. We watched Forest Gump. I haven't watched that in a long time.
Speaker 1:No, that was fun.
Speaker 2:We were kind of at the mercy of the. We don't watch a lot of regular TV, so it was like trying to find something on I don't know if it was satellite TV.
Speaker 1:Whatever that we would watch.
Speaker 2:That was actually probably more challenging than we didn't bring any of our computers so we couldn't use any of our accounts or whatever. But we made the best of it and we have grown over the years, so I don't think it was. It didn't detour us like it probably would have in the past.
Speaker 1:I think you're right. It didn't create conflict in that place. I knew, you knew, while I was upset. It was upset because I wanted to be doing other things and just have energy and fever and all that kind of fun stuff. So I think we avoided it being a conflict because we were disappointed, clearly, but I think we were in it together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So no matter what guys keep doing, keep going away. We're looking forward to the next one already. Yes. We're going away in a couple of months for our 25th anniversary, so we're just looking forward to that now.
Speaker 1:That's right. No, keep going.
Speaker 2:It'll be great. So what are we chatting about today? Valentine's Day is coming up.
Speaker 1:Okay. So we had a client that we were talking about healthy sexuality and healthy sexual intimacy and they asked a question that I thought would just be a really important one for us to talk about. So we had said, hey, you know what, right now, because of situations in your marriage, she needed to be a little bit in charge of sexual intimacy for a time right.
Speaker 1:And what I ended up saying was something like but what we want is your husband to be able to pursue you, not necessarily just pursue sex. And she kind of looked at him and looked at us and she said I have no idea what that means. Or what that looks like, or what that looks like, right, and I was like okay, I think that's actually a topic we need to talk about is what does healthy pursuit of sexual intimacy and of each other actually look like, and it is different right Male to female.
Speaker 1:You know what that pursuit looks like, but it is this place that is. How do we express desire?
Speaker 2:well, why is it different male to female?
Speaker 1:I think sometimes what we're looking for in pursuit is a little bit different.
Speaker 2:So is that really male to female, or is that just individual people?
Speaker 1:I think it's male to female. I think there are some things that guys are looking for in pursuit that we end up doing and women get turned off by.
Speaker 2:Okay, gotcha. Kind of idea Do you think those are cultural to the United States?
Speaker 1:You clearly do, I don't.
Speaker 2:Wait a second. Just because I ask a question doesn't mean it's a leading question. I was just curious because I do think culture does impact. I mean, I can't say that I've had a lot of experience with how men pursue sexual intimacy in other cultures, but I do think both women and men are impacted by the United States culture around sexuality.
Speaker 1:Well, right, and some of the church culture that we've talked about in the last couple of episodes that say that a woman who is for lack of a better term sexually confident has sexual desire is somehow wrong, right? Church culture has taught that for a really long time, and so that that certainly is influencing it, and I think that feeds into what most men are desiring is a woman who actually is sexually confident.
Speaker 2:Right, but I think the world and I don't know if this is where you're planning on going, but I think the world. I shouldn't say that the United States then presents outside of the church what a confident woman should look like, but I'm not sure that that's truly the picture of what it should look like either.
Speaker 1:Hmm, okay.
Speaker 2:Right, like there's a lot of pressure from, I don't know, secular culture for a lack of better term that it looks like a Victoria's Secret model or looks I don't know how else to describe it without sounding like right.
Speaker 1:So I think that so let's actually start by talking about how not to pursue each other. Okay. Right, because I think sometimes we end up going to these negative things because we don't know the ways to do it well, and I think some of that is going to come out.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Right. So one of the things I've said this many times one of the things that I see people do all the time is when they want to spend time together, when they want to be intimate together and even when they want to have sex together, they pursue not in a caring, romantic way. They end up pursuing in a way to find out if the other person is even at all interested. Okay.
Speaker 1:And I mean, I know on the guy side where that's coming from is this thing of I don't want to get myself excited if I'm going to get rejected. So what I'm doing is kind of kind of passively reaching out and going you interested at all in a way that almost then feels like a locker room.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Right, it feels like you know, okay, you up for it, like kind of thing, not at all actually pursuing somebody's heart. It's not at all pursuing, you know, a desire, it's just passive.
Speaker 2:Would you say that? What would you say? What would you say that looks like if the because this is kind of sounding like that's the higher drive spouse, then I think sometimes it is that that higher drive spouse that's pursuing it that doesn't want to deal with the rejection, or doesn't know how to deal with the rejection of the lower drive spouse.
Speaker 1:That's true, and they're. They often will pursue it in physical means, in you know going and smacking her butt in the middle of the kitchen, or you know making some kind of half crass comment.
Speaker 2:Not that, not that attractive comments are unwarranted, but even fun sexual comments, as long as people are enjoying them and think they're right fun.
Speaker 1:But I think, or they're kind of going and look, I'm totally guilty of this. In the beginning of our marriage I did this a lot. I would come in and be like so how are you feeling today? Right, which you had zero idea was somehow pursuing you, right, but I was. I was very much trying to feel out is, is she had a good day? Is she feeling good? Does she have a headache? Is she like? I was trying to determine all that before putting anything out there of myself.
Speaker 2:Gotcha.
Speaker 1:So it's incredibly passive pursuit.
Speaker 2:But my my question was do you think it's similar for a higher drive wife?
Speaker 1:I think so right, like they're probably doing some of that same. Did you have a good day, like, do you? Have some energy, like you know, trying to evaluate those things before they're even willing to, you know, put a risk out there of showing some some actual pursuit of actual desire.
Speaker 2:Gotcha.
Speaker 1:Right. So I think that is probably happening, and then the reality is often we feel the rejection of well, they're okay, they're not interested before we even did anything to pursue the person. Mm, hmm. Right, like. So it just becomes this hugely negative cat and mouse game where we're not actually putting ourselves out there, but there we're still feeling rejected, and the other person doesn't even know.
Speaker 2:Well, true, and I think pursue is. The challenge with that is, you're talking about pursuit right at the time, and one of the things that I think deeply contributes to that is are you pursuing your spouse all day long, understanding that people have jobs and all of that, but are you pursuing connection with them more than just at that time? Because that feels very disconnected and disjointed. Yeah, so like what does it look like to stay connected all day long as best you can, with jobs and kids and all that kind of stuff? I think. I think that we are kind of like compartmentalizing things when we do it in a way that's like we haven't really talked to you all day, but then we're home, the kids are in bed and it's like let me focus on this.
Speaker 1:Right, right, absolutely. And then I'm going to go to the next, really unhealthy level of pursuit, right? So maybe we've gotten past the test, the waters, or maybe we think that our spouse has had an okay day and maybe might possibly be interested. I think a lot of times our next pursuit is honestly as if a elementary schooler wants an ice cream cone. Right, it's coming in and going. So, mommy, do you have a good day? Oh, how did you do it? Like it's buttering somebody up in order to, like, get what you want.
Speaker 2:Okay, interesting.
Speaker 1:And I like, but I've seen that so much is like. The only time that you sit down in our nice to me is when you want sex.
Speaker 2:Oh, gotcha Kind of idea right and I've seen spouses say that all the time that makes sense. I just don't remember our kids like being nice just to get ice cream, but okay, keep, I got it.
Speaker 1:I think it's the like they're gonna like. Mommy, I love you. I want a snack right, it's that.
Speaker 2:Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.
Speaker 1:That place right. Like because we have not actually figured out one how to pursue a fullness of what sexual intimacy is, or like have confidence in our own ability to have a desire.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I feel like sexual intimacy is a outpouring of all of that other stuff. So if you haven't spent time in that other stuff, it right. It feels again very compartmentalized, very disjointed.
Speaker 1:The problem. Yes, you're right. And again, I'm only going to talk here from a male perspective, because that's what I know is like I hear a lot of guys talking about. There's this biological desire. I just get to this place where I feel like I need it. And then it's they're pursuing. How do I get release?
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And how many spouses have we are? How many wives have we talked to? It's like I just feel used in that pursuit of just release. I'm not here just to fill that.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:There's more to what sexual intimacy is supposed to be.
Speaker 2:I do hear wives saying that sometimes as well Like I think we need to remember that, like for the Hyrodrive drive wife, that is also the case of just like there's a buildup and that feels very intense and overwhelming and whatnot. So right yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think we need to. You know, pay attention to those are real things. But it's, how do you move past that and say what I really want is to pursue connection, because I'm pursuing you, I'm pursuing more of us together. I'm pursuing, you know, the intimacy of us together, not just pursuing a sexual release.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so what makes that different?
Speaker 1:I think some of it does come from that what's the target, what's the goal? Okay, right, like. So if your goal is just to have an orgasm, then I think you're missing what sexual intimacy is actually supposed to be about.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right Like. So that's where the shift starts. Needs to start to happen is your spouse is just not an outlet for your orgasm, Right Like they're supposed to be. More that they are pursuing a connection and a deeper relationship in that intimate space.
Speaker 2:Sure Sure, and I think that if they feel like the only connection you have during a day is that, then I think you're missing it.
Speaker 1:Yes, correct, right, like there needs to be, and they're supposed to be a connection, a level of emotional intimacy that creates the safety for the vulnerability of sexual intimacy.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:Right, and that does get to be this space of how do we pursue each other's heart not just pursue each other's body.
Speaker 2:Right, and I think every couple has to grow in this, like this is not something that's taught. So I think every couple that is married has to figure out what does this look like and how do I pursue my spouse in all areas of who they are and continue to do that for our lifetime. Obviously, there's going to be ebbs and flows, where life is really stressful and pursuit is at a minimum, I mean. But I would even say like, even when life is stressful, like that connection is going to be beneficial to you. All of the connection, not just sex, but everything is going to be beneficial to you. Sure, got designed it that way. But I also want people to know like I don't think any of us really enter marriage with a good view of what this looks like, unless your parents were really good at either talking about it, which most are not, or showing the example of cherishing each other. Yeah, and you just really saw them throughout most of their days being really just kind and caring and all those kinds of things.
Speaker 1:I and look like there are cultural reasons why I think the male and female is a little bit different. One of the things I hear from guys all the time when I'm talking about wounds, when I'm talking about places where they've been hurt in their life, is many boys growing up feel like they were unwanted.
Speaker 1:That they did not have the emotional connection that they saw often their sisters have with their moms. They did not feel like they had a place for care, support, those kind of things right. So many boys feel just unwanted and got into this place of trying to figure out how to meet that need and so out of that comes a deep desire from many men to be desired.
Speaker 1:Not that they have to pursue in order to get their desires met from the other person, but this place where their deep longing is for somebody to pursue them, and that I'm not saying that that is the only way it has to go to directions, but I do think that longing for somebody to pursue them, for somebody to deeply desire them, is something at the root of many men. And so for those guys, if that sounds like you, I think there's a place where your spouse just simply stating something like I'm really desiring being with you, sending a text in the middle of the day saying I can't wait to come home because I really want to be with you I don't even mean you have to say sexually, just I want to be with you. I think it lights up most guys.
Speaker 2:I'm processing that because I think women want to be desired as well.
Speaker 1:Of course they do. I don't think that's a negative. I just think it often does not happen in guys. I think guys have been the pursuer and then when relationships get unhealthy, what steps back is? They pursue harder and women put up more distance physically. They don't do the sure let's kiss.
Speaker 2:Well, they pursue harder in a, it's not really pursued.
Speaker 1:Save more.
Speaker 2:Well, when you say they pursue harder, they're just. That's when we have the situation where you feel like you're just a means to an end.
Speaker 1:Yes, correct, right they're pursuing release.
Speaker 2:They're pursuing harder.
Speaker 1:They're pursuing release rather than relationship. Right. And that's not going to work.
Speaker 2:Well, and I hear you saying that from their childhood, which we obviously really believe. Storywork helps understand that. I just think that's a really interesting thing and I wonder does that come from the church? That's always said like fathers need to pursue their daughters in a way, otherwise they'll go out and seek it differently. And you and I have always said how does a mom with love, like, seek out the daughter and tell her she's valued and loved? So we've always said, like, how does a mom seek out respecting her son, which I'm not. We are not pushing the love and respect thing, but there is something to how we're wired a little bit differently, where one is higher for each of us, because we were always trying to puzzle that out with our boys, like how do I show them respect at an age where I'm still the authority over them?
Speaker 1:right.
Speaker 2:So I'm just curious, because to me is a harder puzzle to figure out than love your daughter. So, I'm just curious if that is part of it. That's brought that on just asking the question just curious. But then the reality is women very much want to be cherished and desired. So where does that come from?
Speaker 1:Correct and that was the word I was going to bring in for guys in how to pursue their wives, is the word cherish right, like, I think, thinking about something important, valuable, special, that you want to protect and care for, that that's cherishing right, and I think if you can give off that energy towards your wife, she is going to feel that a lot, where I think actually for men it's not as much cherish, it's actually pursue. It is actually most guys want to see that their wife wants them for lack of a better term and I don't just mean sexually.
Speaker 1:I mean just wants them around, wants them there, wants their touch, their words, like I think most guys starve for that feeling like they're wanted. Gotcha, that's what pursuit I think looks like from a woman to a guy. It is just showing that they're wanted where. I think guys try to do that to their wives a lot and it doesn't work.
Speaker 2:Well, because we know when you're giving what you want to receive that doesn't work.
Speaker 1:It misses, that's right.
Speaker 2:Unless the other person is exactly the same as you, which that's pretty uncommon in marriage.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so where I think most women? Now you need to tell me right, like you're the expert on the other side, I think from what I've heard, not going that far, but okay is, most women want to feel that they are special, that they are cherished, in a way of saying I want to take care of you. I want to make a safe place for you, for your heart, for your emotions, for your body. Like all of that that, it is more about creating safety than it is about pursuing in a specific you're desired.
Speaker 2:Well, I think what you said is true of anything, because women want to be wanted too.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:It's just where are these things on your priority scale? And I think what you're saying is for men, that's very high up. For women, like, because women even women who struggle with desire, which that's a whole other podcast they still want to be wanted, like, they want to be desired and desirable, they want to know that their husband thinks that they are right. So one doesn't cancel out the other, but yes, I think on the list of priorities feeling cherished and all of that how you would describe it. Unfortunately, there's some things that we can describe that are probably a given for every woman. It's also kind of unique to them.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:I feel like cherished is unique because we like to be complicated. Where wanted is a little bit like more cut and dry as to what that looks like. Sure right and because cherished really is like what you know. Somebody down the street feels cherished. Her may not Like. That's why we have to be students of our spouses, because what I feel most cherished in could be very different.
Speaker 1:Ah, 100%. And I think that is the challenge. There's no direct formula of like oh, I'm gonna say this or do this that's gonna make your wife feel cherished because it is unique, it is special, but that's part of the journey is going. What helps your wife feel cherished? Right, and it is just back to that. It is, instead of pursuing release, it's pursuing relationship.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And if you focus on how do I pursue relationship, that then sexual intimacy comes out of that Rather than if I pursue sex. A lot of times the relationship gets missed, and that's exactly what women have been saying forever. I mean, I hear that all the time when I'm doing couples work is yes, he'll pursue sex, but then there is no relationship.
Speaker 2:Right, right, well, and kind of with saying being wanted in the relationship. I was saying, like with our women's relationship, with actually desiring sexual intimacy is different, but we want to be desired and when you feel like it's only for release, that doesn't feel like we're being desired. It feels like as you said sex is being desired, and I'm just the acceptable method for that to happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, ouch right, I don't know that's hitting some people like ugh, that's what it feels like.
Speaker 2:And it can go the other way too.
Speaker 1:Of course. You say, there are where this is the opposite and it is the wife saying all of this and the husband who is struggling with desire, like there's story there for every single one of us, or study like I've worked with couples recently who are he's wrestling with some medically induced impotence or issues like that, which then go well, I guess I'll just turn off desire, right like that was his answer for those things. So that absolutely happens. Yeah, that's tough.
Speaker 1:And trying to get back to expressing desire towards each other. So you're right, there is a high drive, low drive element to this.
Speaker 2:Right and just to be clear, we're not saying every time it's the wife with the higher drive. The man has a medical, there can be emotional wounds and all kinds of things for men that it just statistically is less, but we always say that doesn't make it any less important. Correct, and we do damage when we act like because it's statistically less, it isn't as important.
Speaker 1:So if you're listening to this and want to figure out how to pursue your spouse, the best frame that I can give you, at least to start, is guys, figure out what it means to cherish her heart. Yeah.
Speaker 1:To do that, not just when you're trying to have sex but, actually cherish her heart throughout the day, throughout your week, and make that be your pursuit, where women right Like so, if men are pursuing her heart, where women, I think figuring out a way to say that he is wanted needed that, and that does not have to be sexually, but the fact that he has value, the fact that you appreciate something that he did, appreciate, something that he does, I think is speaking to his heart.
Speaker 2:Gotcha, yeah, for sure, and I think it needs to be that it can't always be sex, because I think that's something that the message that's given out there. Oh, absolutely Like then you have to just have sex.
Speaker 1:Right, I'm not saying like-.
Speaker 2:And pursue.
Speaker 1:Women, you just have to put on lingerie and guys you just have to put on you just have to pursue her heart and turn that off. It's not that there is ways to say I want you sexually in a healthy way that is pursuing each other and pursuing each other well and look, I guess this is probably where we come back to. We say this all the time is in a healthy relationship, a healthy sexual intimacy relationship, both of you should have language to say I want you, I want to be sexual with you. There should be a way to ask for that, pursue that in your relationship, without undue pressure or undue stress in that like it has to happen kind of idea.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And then we also say on the other side is both of you should have language to say man, not today. I really can't get my head around it today. Can we figure this out later without undue rejection?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, like so, we have to be able to say yes and no to each other without the strings attached that are hurtful. That's the challenge is to continue to grow in that.
Speaker 2:And to continue to grow in pursuing each other for who you are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2:Right Get to know your spouse. Pursuit shouldn't be something, a formula that you read on the internet. It's who's your spouse? What do they love? How do you cherish them and value them in that?
Speaker 1:Correct. No, I love that, so I hope that helps a little bit as you guys are working on continuing to grow in your relationship and working on still becoming one Right. That's our goal is to help you to figure out how you continue to pursue oneness in your relationship. So that's all for this week on Still Becoming One. Until next time. I'm Brad Aldrich.
Speaker 2:I'm Kate Aldrich. Be kind and take care of each other.
Speaker 1:Still Becoming One is a production of Aldrich Ministries. For more information about Brad and Kate's coaching ministry courses and speaking opportunities, you can find us at aldrichministriescom For podcast show notes and links to resources in all of our social media. Be sure to visit us at stillbecomingonecom and don't forget to like this episode wherever you get your podcasts. And be sure to follow us to continue your journey on Still Becoming One.