2 Docs No Nanny. #479

Nearly 50,000 people watched our co-parenting reel and asked the same question: "Why don't you just get a nanny?"

People expected us to have full-time help. We don't. Not because we can't afford it. Because we made a different choice.

In this episode, Nii and Renee pull back the curtain on the real systems, the real schedule, and the real financial trade-offs behind running a two-physician household with two boys — without a nanny.

You’ll hear:

→ Why Renee refuses to hire a nanny (4 specific reasons)

→ The Sunday Night Meeting — how we plan every week before it starts

→ The Primary Parent Rule — the core rule that keeps our household from falling apart

→ Our calendar system — how Nii builds his locums schedule around Renee's call

→ The Date Night Rule — the one non-negotiable that protects our marriage

→ Why our boys know the plan (and why it matters)

→ The REAL financial cost of this choice (Forbes data + our honest numbers)

→ Our one-income philosophy — if we can't build wealth on one physician income, we're doing it wrong

→ What we sacrifice. What we refuse to sacrifice.

If you're a first-generation doctor in your family, this is your community.

Find us on YouTube: www.youtube.com/@docsoutsidetheboxpodcast

RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE: 

Locumstory. Learn how locum tenens helps doctors make more and have the lifestyle they deserve!. Check them out HERE!

Forbes article - https://www.forbes.com/sites/christinecarter/2025/02/11/motherhoods-price-tag-the-financial-reality-of-working-vs-leaving/ 

FREE DOWNLOAD: 

Download the First-Gen Doctor Blueprint — everything we wish someone had told us about finances, career planning, and building a life in medicine. Visit: https://darkos.lpages.co/first-gen-physicians/

Have a question for the podcast?

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• Text us: 833-230-2860
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• Email: team@drniidarko.com 

ABOUT DOCS OUTSIDE THE BOX:

Dr. Nii is a General Surgeon. Dr. Renee is an OB/GYN. We are first-generation Ghanaian and Haitian physicians who paid off $662,000 in student loan debt in 3 years, built a locum tenens agency, and navigated every major medical career decision without a family blueprint.

We created this podcast for first-generation doctors — physicians who are the first in their families and lack the inherited knowledge about money, contracts, career strategy, and the unwritten rules of medicine that many of their colleagues learned growing up.

Real conversations for first-gen doctors.

DISCLAIMER: Dr. Nii and Dr. Renee are physicians, not financial advisors or attorneys. Content shared in this podcast reflects personal experience and should not be considered financial, legal, or medical advice. Please consult qualified professionals before making financial or career decisions.

© 2026 Docs Outside the Box. All rights reserved.

Transcript

The Viral Question About Nannies

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Alright, everybody. So several weeks ago I posted something on Instagram Rails and YouTube Shorts mainly about how we manage our household. It's two physicians, two boys, our schedule, and the system of it all. And I've been trying to improve our social media presence, and that was one of the last, you know, social media posts that I thought would have gone viral, but in essence it went viral. We got about 50,000 views on that. And we got comments from a whole bunch of different physicians from all over the country. And in those comments, one question kept coming up over and over and over again. Same question, different accounts, but the same question. And that question is why don't you just get a nanny? Right? And what's interesting is that underneath that question is something that me and you, we talk about all the time on the show is how do you build a life? How do we build our career with intentionality instead of just accepting the default path? The path that's traditional, that's given to everyone else. So before everybody, before we get into today's conversation, um, if you're exploring different ways to practice medicine or simply want to get a better understanding of the options available to you as a physician, I want you to take a look at locumstory.com. It's a free resource. It has unbiased information about locum tenants opportunities. There's stories, real stories about physicians, and it has practical guidance to help you make informed decisions about your career and your future. And that's what this episode really is about today. It's not about childcare, it's not about nannies, it's really about options, right? That's what we really talk about. The choices we make about how we work, how we parent, and what kind of life we're actually trying to build. Um, because the more I read those comments, and even I go back, people still are leaving comments. The more I take a look at it, the more I realize that people aren't really asking about childcare. Um, they're really asking about something bigger. So, guys, make sure you check out locumstory.com.

Meet The Hosts And The Setup

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Yo, everyone, welcome. You ready?

SPEAKER_00 2:29

I'm ready.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

Let's do this. All right, everybody, welcome back to Docs Outside the Box. I'm Dr. Ni. I'm a trauma surgeon, Locum's physician, and as you can tell by my jersey, Go Black Stars, first generation doctor from Ghana. And today I've got Dr. Renee here. Sakbase. Nabule.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

First generation doctor from Haiti. And um OBGYN. And uh Mom of two. Mom of two, wife of one.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

Better be. You didn't say husband of one. I know how your Haitians roll.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

Oh, please, I know how you got your role. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

All right. Well, today, listen, we're gonna keep it quick today. Today we're gonna be pulling back the curtain. Um, we're gonna be talking about the real system, and we're gonna be answering the question that we got so many times in that post, which is why don't we use a nanny? Two physicians, two doctors, no nanny. Um, so this episode is for every dual physician couple out there, every uh physician parent, um, every medical student who's wondering if they can build a family without sacrificing their career um or maybe even their kids' childhood. Right? Um, so let's get into it. You ready?

SPEAKER_00 3:46

Let's get into it.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

All right, so listen, I I I I can't do this episode without you because ultimately you are the primary decision maker in the household, particularly about having a nanny. Everything else is my damn decision. But with you, I'm just teasing.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

Yeah, you better be.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

But at least with the nanny decision, guys, just as a as a as like for real for real, for the nanny decision, this is something that I proposed to you. I was like, do you think we should get a nanny?

SPEAKER_00 4:15

You did propose that.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

Particularly if we're gonna be both full-time. Um do you want to take it from there? Because I got four reasons why you said no nanny. But do you want to kind of introduce your thought process?

SPEAKER_00 4:26

No, what did I say? What did I say?

SPEAKER_02 4:28

As to why you don't want a nanny?

SPEAKER_00 4:30

Yeah, let's see, let's see, let's see how good you are.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Oh, it's easy. I listen to everything you say. Oh my goodness. I listen to everything you say, everybody. Listen. So I wrote down my points

Four Reasons We Skip A Nanny

SPEAKER_02 4:40

because I remember, like, we've talked about this multiple times. We've never argued about this. I think you made it really clear as to why you don't want a nanny, but it is usually more than just one answer. Right? So the first one I have is I don't want anyone, anyone else raising my kids.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

Ding, ding, ding, ding.

SPEAKER_02 4:57

I'm right, right? I'm right, right? Okay, give me some background music and stuff. There you go. So do you want to explain that?

SPEAKER_00 5:05

Um, yeah, I don't want nobody else raising my kids. I mean, it I mean, it kind of speaks for itself, right?

SPEAKER_02 5:12

Isn't it you don't trust people?

SPEAKER_00 5:13

No, it's that, you know, I became a mother because I wanted that experience, right? I wanted that experience of raising my children. And I don't want that experience for lack of a better word, snatched away from me. Um, or I don't want to Or give it away, you mean. I was about to say, not snatched. I don't wanna, I don't wanna give we have choices here, everyone.

SPEAKER_02 5:39

You have choices.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Yeah, we have choices. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

Um I don't want to give that experience away um for someone else to do primarily, right? I think that that's just an experience I want to have.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

And you don't want to outsource it.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

No, I don't want to outsource. I mean, I think there are things that you do outsource, but this is just for me anyway, it's not one of them. So I want to be there. I want to be there for all of the, you know, extracurricular activities, the school activities, you know, the the tears, the smiles, the everything. So I I don't want to, I don't want to get it secondhand, you know, for someone to tell me, oh, let me tell you what happened today. And like, I wasn't there.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

So that leads that leads to the second point that you made. And I think actually, because I wanted to lull it in because I know that there's a number one reason, but I know ultimately what the biggest thing for Dr. Renee is, I'm gonna get into the second point. I don't want my kids attached to someone else more than me. Right. I e she don't want her kids calling nobody else mommy. That's what it is. Am I lying?

SPEAKER_00 6:49

You are not lying.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

Am I lying? And isn't that really the first driver? No, actually. You a damn lie. No, isn't it? That's the first driver. You see what I was trying to do, y'all?

SPEAKER_00 7:00

You did get that correct, but that wasn't the first driver. I will say though, that Docs Outside the Box podcast had me scared straight when you had you had on a guest. Oh, what's her name? You had on a guest.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

It's 2026, yeah. Come on. I understand. I don't remember. It wasn't that lot of.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

It's a family doc. Oh, what her name escapes me.

SPEAKER_02 7:25

Just say the story and then we'll get to her.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Yeah, she's a family doc who tried to do IVF. She couldn't, she she was unsuccessful with IVF. Her mother carried her triplets.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

Oh, um, yeah, yeah, yeah. She's the one who's featured on um, was it like Essence or Jet Magazine? Her husband is an orthopedic surgeon. I forgot her name. Oh my goodness, I feel bad. But yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

Her mother carried her triplets.

SPEAKER_02 7:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

She went back to work, and she said that one she had a nanny, and one day she came home, and the nanny was home at the same time, and one of her boys said, Mommy, talking to the nanny, and the nanny responded, Yes.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

The hand that rocks the cradle.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

Yo, that right there. You think people remember that show? The hand that rocks the cradle? Yeah, maybe. But that right there had me scared straight. I was like, See? I was like, You're welcome.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

You're welcome. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

I was like, yeah, that is an experience that I do not want. I don't want my children attached to someone else when I am more than capable of being fully present.

SPEAKER_02 8:37

So you don't want the kids closer to the caregiver?

SPEAKER_00 8:39

No.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Not not more than to me. No. And I've I've seen this in real time with other people.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

It's a tough decision. Yeah. It's a tough decision.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

And I think that anybody who has a nanny sometimes that that has to be a thought that comes in their mind.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Yeah, I'm sure it is. And listen, this is I I just want to put this out here, but this is not to knock someone, you know.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

You're gonna have mad people writing you, yo.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

They will, but this is not to knock anybody who has a nanny, right? Like one of the things that I always say to you is I do understand that I'm talking from a place of privilege, right? Because of, you know, who I married, the way that we live, yeah, the amount of income that we make. I understand that I am talking from a place of privilege. And so, you know what I say to you. I'm like, well, what's the use of privilege if you're not gonna take advantage of it, right? And for me, the taking advantage of that privilege includes me being able to stay home with my children without necessarily relying on a nanny. So that's that's not to knock anybody. Like, there's nothing wrong with having a nanny.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

I just don't want one for you know, the reasons that you if you had to get one with if you had to what what other situations that you would get a nanny? Because I'm sure if you were if you were a single, if you were a single doc.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

If I were a single doc, then yeah, I would probably get a nanny, right? Because at that point, I really wouldn't have a choice. I mean, I would still try to do something where I don't necessarily need a nanny, maybe, you know, have a family member come in or something like that. Um, because if my kids are gonna be close to anyone, I would prefer it to be a, you know, a grandparent, uh, an aunt, a cousin, uh, a something else. Um, but if I absolutely had to get a nanny, then sure, you know, I would.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

Okay. Okay. So all right. Let's go to the third reason that I think you use more. There's more. Yo, I'm telling you right now, like, I pay attention to what you're saying. I know you don't think I, hey guys, listen, there's like a, it's not an inside joke, but like I think a lot of times, and to the husbands and to the boyfriends who are paying attention, like, y'all women think we don't listen to y'all. You don't. We listen to you. It's just that we don't necessarily have to give you validation after every point that you make. Do you see what I'm saying? So I'm listening, but you don't necessarily need to have a a head nod or oh, you right.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

I mean, she's a head nod.

SPEAKER_02 11:19

Are you sure it was a woman? Like, that's what y'all, y'all always want validation. It's like, damn, I heard you.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

No.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

And I process it, but you don't know. It takes me a longer time to process than you.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

You don't even nod your head when I'm talking. Here we go.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

All right, third, people think I'm sacrificing my career for my kids. Is this true?

SPEAKER_00 11:36

People do think that.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

Once again, people think I'm sacrificing my career for my kids. So, i.e., the I didn't go to med school to sacrifice for my kids.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

No.

SPEAKER_02 11:48

So people Or is that what it is? I didn't go to med school to have kids. No. You botching it. How's it go?

SPEAKER_00 11:55

So I was told by a colleague once, you know, I didn't go, I didn't um go to medical school just so I could sit home and and be with my kids. That's that's what was said. In my mind, I was like, well, I didn't have kids so that I could spend all day at the hospital. You know? So then why did you have kids? I had I had kids so that I could be with my kids, right? Um it just so happens that depending on the way that I work, I could spend all day at the hospital. I could spend all day in the office, right? And I don't want to spend, you know, 60, potentially 80 hours. Some people are spending a hundred hours a week, you know, at work. And I don't want to do that. I just don't. Um so you know, I want to be able to enjoy my children. They didn't ask to be put on this earth, and I've spent a lot of time, you know, building my career, chafe, you know, first chasing the educational carrot and then finally reaching that carrot and then doing, you know, my practice. I've spent my time, I've I've done my life doing that. Um, so now for me, I'm like, well, it's time to give my kids a chance to be able to figure out what it is that they want to do. And I want to be a part of that. So for me, that's not a sacrifice. The fact that I can work as an OBGYN and still be with my kids without necessarily having to spend 40, 60, 80, 100 hours in the clinic is not a sacrifice. That's just being strategic.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

So I was I was actually I was hoping that you would head in that direction because I I I have two things here, or I have a note here that says if you're strategic about it, your career is always gonna be there. But the kid's childhood won't. So you've been able to be strategic about things to still work, still maintain the things that you need in order to work, i.e. the caseload, the logs, to make sure that you're a competent OB, you obviously your board certification, you know, and so forth. Yep. But it's not to the point where you feel like, you know, your kid, like you are feeling the the guilt of being at work because you're not spending time with your kids. Is that fair to say, or my explaining to you?

SPEAKER_00 14:25

I mean, you know, it I think it goes even more than that, right? I don't want my kids to feel like an inconvenience for the work that I want to do, right? Like, oh, it's so inconvenient, you know, to have these kids and, you know, because I really just want to work, right? And that's not to say that anybody who's working full time is feeling that, but I just don't want to feel that, right? I don't want to feel like, man, I really want to be in the hospital. I really want to be in the office, I really want to be in surgery or in the ER, but I gotta go home and take care of these kids.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

These snotty no kids.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

These snotty no kids.

SPEAKER_02 15:05

They're not even gonna eat all the plates based keys. They're not even gonna eat the whole food.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

No.

SPEAKER_02 15:09

I'm gonna have to make two separate meals.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

No, I'm definitely not making two meals. I haven't made two meals in a long time.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

What? What's a long time? Two weeks?

SPEAKER_00 15:16

No. In a long time. I haven't made two meals. I have not made two meals. You a lot. You made two meals. I didn't. No, I didn't. When did I make two meals, Nee?

SPEAKER_02 15:25

At least what, a month ago.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

What what two meals did I make, Nee?

SPEAKER_02 15:28

Anyway, fourth. I think the fourth reason.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

You be lying.

SPEAKER_02 15:31

The fourth reason that I think you use to decide that you're not gonna get a nanny is I think you believe, like I said, I didn't show this to you. Being a mom is harder than being an OB.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Oh, hell yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

What's the board certification for being a mom? Fuck out of here. Huh?

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Yo, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

Where the logs? Where are the logs for being a mom? What you talking about?

SPEAKER_00 15:51

I tell you that right now. I would not pass the oral board of mommying. Like, nope, fail. Try again.

SPEAKER_02 16:00

The parent-teacher conferences, the milestones that you may miss. Oh my gosh. The science fairs.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Oh my gosh. Which, by the way, my kids killed it in the science fair this year.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

That's because you did it for them.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

No, I didn't. No, I didn't. They did it. It was so good.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

She did it for them, guys.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

She killed it this year.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

She did it for them.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

She killed it.

SPEAKER_02 16:20

But um, no, yeah, I think mommying is definitely Oh, and let's go back real quick on the childhood not like the childhood not lasting forever. Like, we have a kid who's nine. Guys, when we tell you the childhood doesn't last forever, the childhood doesn't last. Like this nine so fast. This nine-year-old literally is like, yo, like it went so fast. When can we do college tours? I'm like, yo, slow down, yo.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

It went mom, dad.

SPEAKER_02 16:46

Like, I pre-filled out the fast file.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

It continues to go very fast.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

Yeah. It really does. But no, being a mom, I think is definitely harder than being a doctor.

SPEAKER_02 16:57

Well, I think I think the big thing that you think about is I mentioned it, I was talking about it, you know, kind of joking around, but the science fairs, the parent-teacher conferences. There's a lot of milestones that you potentially could miss. Milestones that I feel like I missed. Right. Because I'm primarily at work. Um, just some of them, actually.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

Because I was really like, you're there for a lot of it. I miss both of their births. I miss Nay, be quiet now. What the hell are you talking about? Why do you be lying on social media? Come on, voice all high like I'm Gina from Martin. But I thought everybody lies on social media.

SPEAKER_02 17:34

Anyway. So listen. You know, I I think the biggest thing is are you gonna have the influence on them if you miss those milestones? Right? Like the work, the work, the work is in those being there and being present.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

Yes, but it's not just about the milestones, right? Because the milestones probably hits more on kind of the first two things that you talked about, but it being harder, my being a mom being harder than being an OB is more about the how do you manage this, right? There are a finite, for the most part, finite number of things that I manage as an OB, right? Like I know what to do when somebody comes in with pre-eclampsia. I know what to do when somebody comes in with an abruption. Like I know what to do when somebody comes into labor, right? I know all of that, right? That has been ingrained in me, has been trained, is written down in books, is evidence-based.

SPEAKER_02 18:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

But being a mom, you know, just textbooks on being a mom.

SPEAKER_02 18:37

There are well there's textbooks on being a parent.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

There are opinions. There are lots of opinions on parenting, right? There are lots of opinions on parenting.

SPEAKER_02 18:47

Um opinions from people who've never had kids before.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

Even, yes.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

Oh, here how about this? Do you think that you can have, you can give good advice on how to be a parent if you've never had a child before?

SPEAKER_00 18:59

Um, I think it depends on what kind of advice you're giving.

SPEAKER_02 19:02

But I should show the mirror to you. Because you sure were giving a lot of advice on how to raise kids when you didn't have kids.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Who did I give advice to?

SPEAKER_02 19:09

When we were younger.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Who did I give advice? Who? What advice did I give?

SPEAKER_02 19:13

I heard you. But anyway, keep going.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

Anyway, but there there's no there's no algorithm.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

There is no. There's no algorithm. The way I look at it, I the way I look at it is this like like there are test questions based off of your patients. Yeah. Right? How your patients are gonna present. Like there's pattern recognitions. With kids, it's kids are not robots, right? What works for one doesn't work for the other, right? Yep. So, or at least the parenting style for one kid doesn't work. It may work for one, but it's not gonna work for the other and stuff. So I think that yes, it's harder. Yeah, it's harder. Do you think the stakes are the stakes are higher?

SPEAKER_00 19:51

I think, well, I think you know, you know what is also scariest? Um is that, yeah, this is the same. Is that a word scariest? Yeah. It is okay scarier, scariest. Scared? What about that one? That that's a word too. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

That's not a word.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Go ahead. Scared is a word. It's just the pronunciation of scared. But anyway, um you made me lose my train of thought. I I mean basically Oh, what I was gonna say was this this yes, the stakes are high. The problem is you don't know. You know how there's MM, right? You you know how you sit in MM and let's say you have this outcome that is just very like, oh damn, right? And you sit through the MM and almost can pinpoint at which point it is that you or whoever who made the decision messed up.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Right. I don't know that you can always do that in parenting. Right? I don't know that you can always do that because kids are not blank slates, they have personalities.

SPEAKER_02 21:06

Like I think for I think for parenting, what you end up seeing it's like this comedy of errors that leads up to someone behaving this certain a certain way or you know, a certain thing is that the person gets molded into the way how they are based off of certain types of things that may occur.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

Maybe, right? Maybe because the question, the question, right? The question though is can you actually mold a child to what you want them to absolutely be?

SPEAKER_02 21:43

Not not not because not absolutely what you want them to be, but absolutely you can mold a child. I mean, that's coaching, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:49

No, I no, I know that, but I I mean in terms of can you sit back if you had you know if you had a a video of all of Moments of a a person's childhood, you can't sit down and pinpoint, you know, the the the time at which this went right or this went wrong. What made the child go this way versus what made the child go that way?

SPEAKER_02 22:15

No, no, no. You're not gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

You're not gonna be able to put that in the world.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

That usually that people in general, people don't normally get their behavior or their trajectory usually doesn't change off of a one event.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

Right. Or or it could be even several events, right? We don't we don't necessarily know, right? I mean, unless it's in an extreme situation, right? It it usually has to be something very traumatic, very extreme, that then makes a child, you know, essentially psychologically um negatively affected.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

But we're not talking about for the sake of the sake of instead of so we're not talking in circles. Let me bring it back. For all the reasons that we presented, these four reasons, right? So the first one, once again, everybody is I don't want anyone else raising my kids. Second is I don't want my kids attached to someone else more than me. Third, people think I'm sacrificing my career for my kids. And fourth, being a mom is harder than being an OB. Yes. All of those four things, I just want to be clear, everybody. I joke around, I just I supported this fully, right? I felt 100% that this was the right direction to make. Can we afford a nanny? Absolutely. We can afford a nanny. Um, we've had that conversation, but we've decided against it. And I think that ultimately, you know, we both feel comfortable investing in our kids in this

The Weekly Meeting And Primary Parent

SPEAKER_02 23:36

way. Let's let's switch and let's actually talk about the actual system that we use in our household to not only parent, uh, but also kind of just figure out how we can do this without a nanny.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

Because I think that's the other thing that people You're like, wow, aren't you tired? I'm like, well, I'm sitting here in my pajamas, so yes, I'm tired. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 23:58

So let's let's break down the actual system. So I have here the Sunday night meeting. I talked about that on social media. Guys, I'm gonna be really honest with you. We don't meet every Sunday night, and sometimes it's a Wednesday night, right? Like, I'm gonna be very honest. The point of the matter is that there's one time during the week or every two weeks where we sit down and we talk to each other about actually what's going on for the kids, for us, um who's working, who's on call, um, you know, anything that's going on with school and pickup, um, practice. You know, basically, I like what we're trying to say is that in order for this to work, where yeah, like if I'm gonna be on locums and I'm gonna be four hours away and I'm gonna be gone for a week, we have to make sure that the system is not just random. The system it's built a certain way and it has to work, right? So, you know, we talk about this, we put in what we need to do for each other weeks ahead of time. We put in what we need to put in for the kids, weeks ahead of time. It's not lucky, you know, we plan it, right? And um, the west best way I like it is luck runs out, plans don't. Right? And we've been using this plan literally for over nine years now. Yes, right? So um let's talk about the primary parent rule, right? So we talked about meeting one time a week or twice a week. It could be whatever day, but we meet and have those type of discussions. But I think the next thing that's important is the primary parent rule. So, in order to obviously not have a nanny, but in order to still maintain a certain income, somebody has to be home all the time. Yes. With the kids. Yes. And it has to be, you know, one of us has to be home with the kids all the time. Both of us can't be exhausted at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

I don't know that that always works, but yeah, it's nice to have that as a rule.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

So basically one of us is always the primary parent, right? So if you're working, then I'm home with the kids. I'm parent. Um, if you are working, excuse me, if I'm wait, if I'm working, then you're the primary parent, which is most of the time that's kind of how it rolls and so forth. Um, when you are working, you know, in in the weekend, um, I try to build put my schedule around yours because I can choose my dates more so than you can, whereas they kind of are like telling you what dates, and you're kind of saying, well, these are the dates that I can work. And you do like a weekend a month. You want to explain that a little bit to me?

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Yeah, I mean, I just do one, maybe two at times weekends, you know, weekends per month. Um, so I'll do like a 72-hour stint um usually at the hospital one, you know, basically a Friday, Saturday, Sunday, some version of that. Um, and then your home taking care of the kids primarily, and you know, I think that system has been working for us, like you said, for about nine years. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

So um school pickup, homework, yeah, dinner, bedtime, laundry, yeah, dishes, yeah, rinse, yeah, wash, repeat. Yeah, we in it.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

Now, yes, all of all of that, right? But I d I also don't want people to think that you know we're necessarily heli helicoptering, right? Like, no, you have to be home with the kids because we don't trust anybody else with our children and this, that, and the other. That's actually that's actually not true, right? There are times when we do have help, right? Like it's it's not like we never have help, right? There, there are times when we have a family member who comes and stays with the kids. If we want to go out, we want to do something. Um, or we drop the kids off at my brother's house or my mother's house, you know, because we want to go away for some weekend event or whatever it is. So I don't want people to think like, oh man, like these people just do it on your own and then you got no help and so forth. Right. Like I don't I don't want people to think that because that is not true.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

But that was a question that we got. Like people several people left messages saying, why don't you just use your grand your grandparents? Yes. Now, one thing that we do have to say, like earlier on in the kids, you know, when they were growing up, like I say like the first three years, four years, like we had the kids hanging out with grandparents. Yes, you know, on certain intervals. But, you know, I wanted to say, you know, for all of you all who are, you know, m professionals, particularly like medical professionals who are used to delaying gratification. You know, if you're talking about having kids into your late 30s or into your 40s, like we did, there's a lot there's a likelihood that your grandparents, your parents gonna be too old to help you take care of your kids. And I think that's kind of what ended up happening with us, at least on my side. On my side as well, you know, the parents the parents they just can't do it. Like they can't chase them around and all those different things, you know. And um, so that's one thing to just be cognizant of is that everything has a consequence. If you wait later on in your life, um, you know, the help that you may want to rely on, they just physically may not be able to do that. So that just kind of I just wanted to address that comment because we got that in the yeah, in the notes also.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Yeah, because our parents, both sets of our parents are now in their 80s. Um, so it's just, you know, they're mid to late 80s now. Yeah, mid to late 80s. So it's you know, they've sl they've definitely slowed down significantly. Um, and so you know, with other health issues, it's it's really not a good idea to put that much of a burden on them.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

Especially young kids.

SPEAKER_00 29:54

Yeah, especially young kids um in days at a time. So that's where we end up, you know, kind of using our siblings and other relatives to help us, especially if it's days at a time, right? So if we have like, you know, we need to leave the kids for a weekend. Um, that's not something I would necessarily put on our parents, but my brother, my sister, you know, your sister. Um, you know, so we we do have help. Yeah.

Shared Calendars And Date Night Reality

SPEAKER_00 30:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:22

Let's let's get into the calendar system. Um, keep it simple. We we have a calendar, um shared calendar. We use Google Google Calendar. Um, I have a calendar that I put all my locum schedule. Renee has the same thing, her own calendar. And then what we do is we merge it or we share with each other. So on my phone, I have a calendar that lists all of my events as well as Dr. Renee's events. And then we also have the kids' events on there also. So what she sees is what I see, and vice versa. Yeah. Um, the biggest thing is, you know, um I I know it's it's you like there's less flex with your schedule than it is with mine. Um It depends. But even when you work, that's on the schedule also. Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Right.

SPEAKER_02 31:03

That that's that's yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

I mean, honestly, the calendar system, like if it's not on the calendar, it's it's not happening.

SPEAKER_02 31:10

I don't know about y'all if it's for yeah, I agree with you 100%.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

It's not going to happen. I missed an appointment uh yesterday, the day before yesterday, because was that a real was that a real miss? No, it was a real miss.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

Um, because it was not on the calendar.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

Um, so I missed an appointment. I was like, hey, you didn't send me a calendar invite. So a lot of times, even when I'm meeting with students, you know, that, oh, you know, Dr. Darkle, I want to meet with you and this, that, and the other. I'm like, listen, send me a calendar invite because if it's not on the calendar, it's not chappening. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:45

All right, let's get into the date night rule.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

What date night rule?

SPEAKER_02 31:49

I was about to say, we'll leave it at that, guys. Uh let's date night. That's your fault, man. Yeah, so date night is a little rough. We're still working on that. You know, that I think that can so date night could be anywhere from actually going on a date to just, yeah, let's just watch TV. Netflix and chill. Netflix when the kids, I think that's more, but that's important though, right? Because that's us connecting with each other. Because you know, you put the kids to bed and you know me.

SPEAKER_00 32:21

You died.

SPEAKER_02 32:22

I'm putting the kids to bed and you don't see me come out. I'm sleeping also.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

I'm like, he's in there sleeping. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 32:29

So, but it's important for us to at least have a night together.

SPEAKER_03 32:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:33

Um, more than likely, guys, I'm gonna be honest with y'all, we're at home. Yeah, we're watching Netflix or some type of streaming service. Have a glass of wine or whatever it may be, have the wine down, and we're both asleep on the couch.

SPEAKER_00 32:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:49

That's that's pretty much it.

SPEAKER_00 32:50

That's D night. We gotta get better with D night, though.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

We do, we do.

SPEAKER_00 32:53

We do. People are like, see, you should get a nanny.

SPEAKER_02 33:00

The boys know the plan. Is this true? You think the boys know really know our plan? Yes. I think they know that. I think they're aware. They're aware of it. They don't need to know too much, but they know how it's. There's certain things that they don't need to know, but they know, I don't know. But they know they know for the sake of this conversation, they know that for the most part, I'm primarily traveling. They know when you're gonna be traveling and then I'm gonna be at home. Yes. They know.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

Yeah. And they've asked the question, you know, why do you go, why do you go to work so much? Mommy, why don't you go to work? I think sometimes they just sick of me.

SPEAKER_02 33:36

Hey guys, I'm gonna be really honest with you. So, you know, one thing that we don't talk about is as a traveling surgeon, as a traveling OBOC, like it it could be rough when you have kids traveling. Because we're I'm at the age now where it's really like a problem, not a major problem, but it's becoming a problem that traveling has its consequences. And when you're not present or when you're not there, you know, for like a week at a time and so forth, you know, the kids try to challenge or the kids miss you, or the kids they lash out in certain ways and stuff. So it has it has its its ways of showing its its ugly head. So it's not all pretty and saying, Oh, I do locums and I control my schedule and I do this. It's like, well, unless you're doing locums within, you know, the town that you live, which the majority of people won't be able to do, you're gonna have to travel. And if you have children, they're gonna miss you.

SPEAKER_00 34:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

Even if you spend a significant time amount of time with them.

SPEAKER_00 34:32

Yeah, you can spend three weeks home with them, but the fact that you went away for seven days, they feel that, right? They feel that because for them, that's a very long time. You know, think about a a you know, a week for a child is a very long time for them. So, you know, they they do feel that. But, you know, as I say, this is the plan until the plan changes. You know? This is the plan until the plan changes.

Travel Consequences And Kids Feel It

SPEAKER_02 35:00

All right, let's shift. And so let's talk about the real costs, the consequences of actually not having a nanny and what that means. What does that mean to have you home the majority of the time? Right. And I think that as dual physicians, people automatically think that you're working all the time, I'm working all the time, there's all this windfall of money. But obviously, in order to do this, this um situation or this system where Renee is at home with the kids, there is a sacrifice of income. That is a big deal. Less earning potential for you, you know, from an income standpoint, that's less retirement savings, that you know, can ultimately over, you know, let's talk about five years, ten years, twenty years, that stuff, you know, exponentially gets bigger.

The Real Financial Tradeoffs

SPEAKER_02 35:48

Right. So that's math. It's not an opinion. Okay, there's an article from Forbes. Um basically it breaks down what it's like or what's the cost to a mother when they step back from the workforce, even just partially. Right? So if you're not in the medical field, the numbers here make sense. If you're not in the medical field, particularly if you're not a physician, just add exponentials to these numbers. But for a five-year career break, we're talking about almost $45,000 lost from retirement contributions. If you're a doctor, you may want to multiply that by three. Four, right? That forty-five thousand dollars in lost uh retirement contributions also equates to almost five, fifty thousand dollars plus of lost social security over a lifetime. Four hundred thousand dollars plus of potential lifetime earnings reduction for a woman who takes a takes a step back away from the the workforce. So, you know, these numbers are real, they apply to you, you know. But we do have a I do have to say this. We wholeheartedly feel that specifically since we paid off of our all of our student loans, yeah, if we can't live and build wealth comfortably off of one physician's salary, then we're doing something wrong.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

Yes. I would say that yes.

SPEAKER_02 37:12

Right. And for us, that's our standard, that's the bar that we we hold. So we make sure that we're very smart with our um investments. We make sure that we're very smart with our even our expenditures, right? So it has to the math has to make work has to work. We talk about things out in the open, and um, you know, um, we kind of look at Renee's income. Like when she does work on the weekends, honestly, we look at your income almost like an accelerant. It's like the main income, but what it does, it just kind of like adds that extra extra, actually, you know. So it really helps a lot. So what we decide to do, obviously, with the sacrificing of the income is well, the investment becomes the boys. Right? So we believe that if we spend if we decide to sacrifice on income, earning potential and spend our time with the boys, yeah, that that's gonna pay off in the future for us.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

Absolutely. I mean, I think investing in your children, and when I say investing in your children, I'm not just t talking about monetarily. I mean, we certainly do that too, but investing in your children's investing the time, the effort, the energy um into them, that's kind of the return that for me Are they gonna want to take care of you at the end?

SPEAKER_02 38:34

Isn't that the when you get old?

SPEAKER_00 38:36

Now, look. Isn't that the true thing? I don't know if they don't want to take care of you. As older parents, as older parents, it it becomes tough to ask your kids who are going to be pretty much very young, you know, when you get older.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

That's why you should stop smoking.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

I don't smoke, Nee. I'm a never smoker. So what you talking about? Why are you lying on social media, Ni? What's wrong with you? What's wrong with them, Lord? Anyway.

SPEAKER_02 39:14

So basically, with with when you're older, the thing to consider is, well, do you want to be do you want to be a burden on your kids or do you want to raise them to take care of you? Like how how are you gonna look at this? Yeah for me, I look at it more of look, I I'd rather I'd rather not be a burden on them and allow them to kind of just live their lives, hopefully knowing that we did, we took really good care of our finances to make sure that if we get sick or if something happens, we can kind of just take care of ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

The load is not on them. Yeah, it's tough.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

It's tough.

SPEAKER_00 39:47

Yeah, it's very tough. Because you're you're talking about potentially if you don't do that, putting a burden on them at the point at which they should be building, not at the point at which they are set.

SPEAKER_01 40:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:01

So, yeah. That's why you gotta get uh long-term care insurance.

SPEAKER_01 40:07

Yeah, they're not sponsoring this episode.

SPEAKER_00 40:10

I know, but I'm saying you gotta get long-term care insurance. You still gotta get it, whether or not they're sponsoring the show.

SPEAKER_02 40:17

Well, either way, so whether we're building wealth on one income or we're gonna be building our family intentionally, that requires discipline, y'all. Right? That requires presence, um, and it requires a system. So we look at it both as investments, right? Like we're we're really diligent about making sure that we live off of one income. We're also very diligent of investing into our children, right? And they both have long-term payoffs. Obviously, we're not gonna be able to fully see both of them, but we know that they're there. You know? So I think I think it's important. The thing that the other thing that we sacrifice that I wanted to mention also is spontaneity.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

Um, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 40:57

Everything has to be planned. Because if it's not on the schedule, it ain't happening.

SPEAKER_00 41:01

Correct. But that doesn't that doesn't necessarily negate spontaneity, right? It doesn't negate spontaneity. Oh yeah. Yeah, it's about to turn into a different podcast. What about sleep? Oh, God.

SPEAKER_02 41:17

That gets sacrificed.

SPEAKER_00 41:18

Um, that gets sacrificed. Stop lying.

SPEAKER_02 41:20

Stop lying. I said, You just took it, you took a big ass nap before we did this.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

I did. I did. That gets sacrificed.

SPEAKER_02 41:27

And then I wanted to sleep too, and you're like, no, I get your ho get out of the house.

SPEAKER_00 41:31

That does get sacrificed, but I think that is uh I don't think that that's a byproduct of us doing living the way that we live. I think sacrificing the the quote unquote sleep sacrifice comes from just us deciding to stay up late and watch obsession.

SPEAKER_02 41:56

They're not sponsoring the show, so y'all need to see that movie. What about yours? So the other thing that we're sacrificing obviously is Renee's full earning potential.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

Yes. That during that is a true sacrifice.

SPEAKER_02 42:07

Yeah, yeah. That's a true sacrifice. Here's the thing that we refuse to sacrifice. I kept these notes. Being present for our boys, our marriage, obviously. Our mental health. Guys, that's really important. I'm telling y'all right now, your mental health is really big because kids pick up on that stuff, man. I'm telling you, you know how many times the boys have been like, Pop, what's your problem? And I'm like, I don't have a problem, but I can see your face. You got an issue going on. And there's a lot of stress going on sometimes that you carry on that you may not be verbalizing it, but they can see it in your face. They can see it how you hunt your shoulders. It's all right.

SPEAKER_00 42:41

You approach them in a different way and you know, they recognize it.

SPEAKER_02 42:44

Yeah. We also don't sacrifice our long-term financial foundation, which was to get the heck out of debt, save, invest, and make sure that we have options. That was huge. Like we ain't sacrificing that. Yeah. And we also not sacrificing each other, baby.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

Yeah, I was about to turn it to a different possibility. That's what I'm gonna say is going back to our spontaneity.

SPEAKER_02 43:06

She's like, yo. All right,

When The System Breaks And Closing

SPEAKER_02 43:10

guys, let's be real though. Sometimes the system breaks down. It does. That's where, you know, she can get sick or I can get sick. There could be emergencies. We had a big emergency late last year. Um, you know, car breaks down. I got into a car accident. Um, but that's where family helps out, and it's not perfect, but it doesn't need to be perfect. It just needs to work. Yeah. Right. And that's the most important thing. So for people who are listening right now, um, even if you're single, like it doesn't, if you're a single family or a single parent, like it doesn't need to be perfect. It just needs to be systematic.

SPEAKER_03 43:46

Just needs to work, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:47

Yeah. Yeah. I think I think that's the the key thing. We need we we try to be very consistent with this plan. So right.

SPEAKER_00 43:55

Yeah, it just needs to work.

SPEAKER_02 43:57

That's all. So listen, guys, um, we're we're gonna end it here, right? Because this is our first episode in several months. Oh my god. So we we we want to give you all a chance to kind of absorb all of this. I want to welcome everybody back to Docs Outside the Box. We've been here and we've been building primarily on social media so that we can get more eyes on us. But for everyone, including our day ones, we really appreciate you for checking us out on YouTube as well as checking us out on Busprout and any other place that you can get your podcast. Um, it's super, super important. And guys, I just want you to know like the whole notion of not getting a nanny, ultimately for us, it really boils down to we want to be as intentional with our life as possible. We want something that works for us, for works as our family and works on our own terms. Because as I said in a social media post before, like healthcare is like it's a complex and it will use you as a cog. And when you get tired or when you can't work anymore, it spit it spits you out and puts someone else in there. And you just want to make sure that you know you took advantage of every opportunity, every financial opportunity, every other opportunity that being a doctor or being a medical professional gives you while you're in this healthcare system. That's all I just want to say. So anything else you want to offer?

SPEAKER_00 45:18

You did ask me, is there any other instance in which I would get an any?

SPEAKER_02 45:24

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 45:25

If I moved to Ghana, I would get an annie.

SPEAKER_02 45:28

Well, you know.

SPEAKER_00 45:30

But we'll cross that bridge, right? We'll cross that bridge later. That's another episode for another day.

SPEAKER_02 45:35

Hey guys, make sure you check out the show notes. Um, check out on Bus Route or anywhere else where you listen to podcasts, check out the show description because there we have our first generation Dr. Blueprint. Um, it covers finances, career planning, um, everything that we wish someone had told us earlier. Um, also subscribe to us on YouTube. Follow us on Instagram at DocsOutside the Box. Um, and also before you go, make sure you check out locumstory.com. Short quick tip there was a psychiatrist who just finished their psychiatry residency at the place that I'm working at. I told him to check out locumstory.com so he could find out what you know the average um, you know, rate is for psychiatry, some of the stories from psychiatrists and so forth. It's a really great resource. I wish that it was there when we were looking over 15 years ago. Damn, that's a long time ago. But yeah, I wish it was there. Um, it's free. There's great stories there. And if you're wondering if locums is the right thing for you, um, that's definitely a place where I will start.

SPEAKER_03 46:35

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 46:35

All right. I'm Ni. I'm Dr. Renee. Hey guys, this is Docs Outside the Box. We'll catch you guys on the next episode, y'all.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

Peace.

SPEAKER_02 46:44

Peace.