{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":11.76,"body":"human estate on the world episode 25 the Quakers welcome to that episode of"},{"startTime":11.76,"endTime":15.56,"body":"human estate on the world I am Dustin and joining me for the first little bit"},{"startTime":15.56,"endTime":26.24,"body":"is me Kylie alright Kylie and how old are you bye do you go to school yes what"},{"startTime":26.24,"endTime":33.64,"body":"great are you in oh well preschool all right and then what are you going to be"},{"startTime":33.64,"endTime":40.34,"body":"in in the fall next year kindergarten yeah very nice so what's your favorite"},{"startTime":40.34,"endTime":49.44,"body":"color well my favorite color is pink and that's my favorite favorite color"},{"startTime":49.44,"endTime":58.76,"body":"all right and your favorite animal she doesn't bake cats and with a cat okay so"},{"startTime":58.76,"endTime":69.48,"body":"basically all cats mm-hmm and all dogs all dogs or just our dogs dog dogs and"},{"startTime":69.48,"endTime":76.04,"body":"all cats okay all dogs and all cats so your big big fan of the canines and the"},{"startTime":76.04,"endTime":91.68,"body":"few lines mm-hmm boss even boss even Dustin how it is of quakes happen"},{"startTime":91.68,"endTime":99.36,"body":"earthquakes the tectonic plates are constantly moving and our continents are"},{"startTime":99.36,"endTime":105.4,"body":"sitting on top of the tectonic plates and pressure builds as plates bump into"},{"startTime":105.44,"endTime":109.8,"body":"each other so earthquakes that we get around here are because the Pacific"},{"startTime":109.8,"endTime":114.48,"body":"plate that is underneath the ocean is going under the North American plate"},{"startTime":114.48,"endTime":120.08,"body":"which we live on top of and that subduction builds up pressure that causes"},{"startTime":120.08,"endTime":127.12,"body":"earthquakes all over the western US really cool Dustin you can also call me"},{"startTime":127.12,"endTime":139.72,"body":"daddy you know yeah you're on a podcast I mean podcast and you're not"},{"startTime":139.72,"endTime":146.92,"body":"pretending you actually are on a podcast yeah yeah this is really cool daddy"},{"startTime":146.92,"endTime":154.52,"body":"sometimes I call you daddy uh-huh so what do you want to be when you grow up oh"},{"startTime":154.96,"endTime":163.88,"body":"well a mom and a ballerina okay and what's your favorite food oh well I can't"},{"startTime":163.88,"endTime":171.64,"body":"aside there's too many choices choices so you like a variety of food mm-hmm all"},{"startTime":171.64,"endTime":179.72,"body":"right and what's your favorite mythical creature mm-hmm those are the creatures"},{"startTime":179.72,"endTime":188.36,"body":"that aren't real oh well unicorns unicorns very nice and your favorite TV"},{"startTime":188.36,"endTime":196.28,"body":"show oh Legos you like all the Lego get back to the microphone you like all the"},{"startTime":196.28,"endTime":209.52,"body":"Lego shows mm-hmm like even even yeah Ninjago and the Lego movies and Lego"},{"startTime":209.52,"endTime":221.2,"body":"Star Wars and Lego Batman oh oh yeah guess what dad that song is very cheesy"},{"startTime":221.64,"endTime":229.84,"body":"which song oh and the after song and from everything is awesome oh yeah"},{"startTime":229.84,"endTime":237.0,"body":"everything is awesome is a pretty cheesy yeah because that's stupid cheesy song"},{"startTime":237.0,"endTime":241.96,"body":"all right well Kylie thank you so much for joining me on the podcast you're"},{"startTime":241.96,"endTime":244.6,"body":"welcome"},{"startTime":253.88,"endTime":259.28,"body":"all right so friends I'm sorry this is taking so long I was supposed to talk"},{"startTime":259.28,"endTime":263.64,"body":"about Quakers in the episode either before or after the shakers because I"},{"startTime":263.64,"endTime":267.96,"body":"really wanted to have a Quakers and Shakers series the shakers were easy"},{"startTime":268.04,"endTime":273.44,"body":"they're crazy they're consistent you know what's going on the religious"},{"startTime":273.44,"endTime":280.96,"body":"society of friends it's taken me okay I did the shakers August 22 of last year"},{"startTime":280.96,"endTime":287.64,"body":"and I have finally wrapped my head around it so the religious society of"},{"startTime":287.64,"endTime":291.48,"body":"friends is the official name of the Quakers and if you talk about what"},{"startTime":291.48,"endTime":300.2,"body":"Quakers are now good luck because are they Christian most of them are about"},{"startTime":300.2,"endTime":306.0,"body":"90% of Quakers identify as Christian do they believe in God yeah a little over"},{"startTime":306.0,"endTime":314.56,"body":"80% do are they a church sort of it's more a loose association of churches that"},{"startTime":314.56,"endTime":321.64,"body":"have and other groups that meet periodically that get along do they have"},{"startTime":321.64,"endTime":328.28,"body":"core doctrine mostly like some of the the general things that most Quakers can"},{"startTime":328.28,"endTime":334.12,"body":"agree upon is that the local church has the power that at least some of the time"},{"startTime":334.12,"endTime":338.84,"body":"they should sit quietly and wait for the spirit to move which in the case of"},{"startTime":339.0,"endTime":346.2,"body":"Quakers that don't believe in God I don't know what that means they also are"},{"startTime":346.2,"endTime":350.88,"body":"pretty much all pacifists and pretty much all believe that marriage is supposed"},{"startTime":350.88,"endTime":358.28,"body":"to be for life most are anti-abortion but like that's really the core of what"},{"startTime":358.28,"endTime":364.68,"body":"Quakers are it's it's those handful of beliefs with pacifism being one of the"},{"startTime":364.76,"endTime":372.44,"body":"most core traditionally Quaker services their first day services because"},{"startTime":372.44,"endTime":377.04,"body":"traditionally Quakers do not use the pagan names of the days of the week or"},{"startTime":377.04,"endTime":384.36,"body":"months so the first day services was a group of Quakers coming together and"},{"startTime":384.36,"endTime":391.64,"body":"sitting in silence until somebody felt compelled to speak about 11% of Quakers"},{"startTime":391.64,"endTime":399.08,"body":"still have that as the primary form of worship it's what's called the unprogrammed"},{"startTime":399.08,"endTime":407.44,"body":"services you will find Quakers like that in Britain Australia Canada and parts of"},{"startTime":407.44,"endTime":413.48,"body":"the US about 89% of Quakers now have programmed services where they have"},{"startTime":413.48,"endTime":421.6,"body":"pastors who preach they have music and they have a portion of the service where"},{"startTime":421.68,"endTime":429.16,"body":"they sit in silence until somebody speaks Quaker governance is also kind of"},{"startTime":429.16,"endTime":438.52,"body":"strange they the local Quaker churches or meetings can be called monthly meetings"},{"startTime":438.52,"endTime":444.48,"body":"because once per month they get together for a business meeting where they conduct"},{"startTime":444.48,"endTime":449.24,"body":"church business at those business meetings they sit in silence until"},{"startTime":449.24,"endTime":454.84,"body":"somebody feels compelled to speak and there is a clerk present to help ensure"},{"startTime":454.84,"endTime":462.6,"body":"that basically the debate doesn't happen you are not allowed to respond to"},{"startTime":462.6,"endTime":468.4,"body":"something that somebody else says you can only speak an original idea that you"},{"startTime":468.4,"endTime":477.08,"body":"feel compelled by God to speak no debate there's also no vote you have to the"},{"startTime":477.12,"endTime":484.4,"body":"meetings have to sit and wait until they reach a point where there is a general"},{"startTime":484.4,"endTime":491.0,"body":"sense of consensus on an action to be taken which is incredibly as somebody"},{"startTime":491.0,"endTime":495.32,"body":"who carefully studied Roberts rules of order when actively involved in student"},{"startTime":495.32,"endTime":503.16,"body":"government and clubs and college that hurts me at a very deep level like the"},{"startTime":503.2,"endTime":510.92,"body":"way to make good decisions is through debate the way to actually agree on"},{"startTime":510.92,"endTime":515.56,"body":"you know determine if people agree on something is to take a vote and they"},{"startTime":515.56,"endTime":521.04,"body":"don't allow debates and they don't allow votes it's crazy at the regional level"},{"startTime":521.04,"endTime":528.76,"body":"Quaker communities will send delegates to quarterly meetings so for example the"},{"startTime":529.04,"endTime":534.48,"body":"Quaker communities in Greenleaf Idaho and Newburg, Oregon are both part of the"},{"startTime":534.48,"endTime":544.56,"body":"Northwest quarterly meeting for the evangelical Quakers and that quarterly"},{"startTime":544.56,"endTime":551.56,"body":"meeting is part of a higher organization that is called an annual meeting and"},{"startTime":551.88,"endTime":559.88,"body":"there is also even higher levels such as the Friends Worldwide Committee for"},{"startTime":559.88,"endTime":569.56,"body":"Consultation which is the highest level of Quaker organization it is a very"},{"startTime":569.56,"endTime":577.48,"body":"loose association as you can imagine and they hold what is a triennial meeting"},{"startTime":577.48,"endTime":583.4,"body":"so every three years they used to be five-year meetings but now they're"},{"startTime":583.4,"endTime":590.56,"body":"three-year meetings which is yeah the Quakers are bizarre at present within"},{"startTime":590.56,"endTime":598.04,"body":"the the broader overarching umbrella of Quakers there are evangelical Quakers"},{"startTime":598.04,"endTime":605.64,"body":"which make up about 88% of all Quakers and they have their own"},{"startTime":605.64,"endTime":610.8,"body":"international organization with the Evangelical Friends Church International"},{"startTime":610.8,"endTime":619.56,"body":"which has annual meetings for evangelical friends churches in other countries"},{"startTime":619.56,"endTime":629.52,"body":"like in the US and most notably Kenya at present there are about 377"},{"startTime":629.6,"endTime":642.68,"body":"Quakers around the world in total with 146,300 of those in Kenya and 76,360 in"},{"startTime":642.68,"endTime":649.6,"body":"the United States there are also tens of thousands in Burundi and Bolivia"},{"startTime":649.6,"endTime":657.6,"body":"there's also about 35,000 in Burundi and 22,000 in Bolivia and also over 5,000"},{"startTime":657.6,"endTime":663.24,"body":"Quakers in Guatemala the United Kingdom Nepal Taiwan and Uganda so they're"},{"startTime":663.24,"endTime":671.28,"body":"spread out a lot there is a tendency for Quakers to be consolidated in Quaker"},{"startTime":671.28,"endTime":678.72,"body":"communities or specific cities a lot of these were founded as kind of Quaker"},{"startTime":678.72,"endTime":685.4,"body":"settlements most notable for the Quaker settlements would be Philadelphia"},{"startTime":685.4,"endTime":692.0,"body":"Pennsylvania and Pennsylvania as a whole Newburg, Oregon, Greenleaf, Idaho,"},{"startTime":692.0,"endTime":699.24,"body":"Whittier, California and Friendswood, Texas you can also find significant"},{"startTime":699.24,"endTime":706.24,"body":"amounts of Quakers or Quaker influence in Richmond, Indiana, Birmingham, England"},{"startTime":706.24,"endTime":711.24,"body":"Greensboro, North Carolina and Ramallah, Ramallah, Palestine"},{"startTime":712.2,"endTime":718.8,"body":"all right and I've mentioned the the evangelical Quakers I've mentioned the"},{"startTime":718.8,"endTime":725.64,"body":"program services the those two generally are the same the ones who are"},{"startTime":725.64,"endTime":730.64,"body":"evangelical tend to be the ones are are the ones who have pastors and have"},{"startTime":730.64,"endTime":737.88,"body":"sermons and songs the Quakers that still have unprogrammed services tend to be"},{"startTime":737.88,"endTime":744.8,"body":"liberal fitting a lot more closely in line with mainline Protestants like the"},{"startTime":744.8,"endTime":750.56,"body":"United Methodist and Episcopal churches or even with liberal Christianity and"},{"startTime":750.56,"endTime":760.0,"body":"just liberal religion like the Church of Christ and Unitarians there's a lot of"},{"startTime":760.0,"endTime":765.16,"body":"variability and with that variability if somebody just says that they're Quaker"},{"startTime":765.16,"endTime":772.28,"body":"you know almost nothing about them and that really makes sense the when you"},{"startTime":772.28,"endTime":779.8,"body":"have a structure that doesn't allow debate that has been around since the"},{"startTime":779.8,"endTime":792.12,"body":"1650s that allows anybody to speak and that vest all control at the local level"},{"startTime":792.28,"endTime":800.64,"body":"that is a system that very easily can be that can be adjusted or modified along"},{"startTime":800.64,"endTime":807.68,"body":"with major cultural events like the first and second grade awakenings and the"},{"startTime":807.68,"endTime":814.2,"body":"modern evangelical movement so let's get into a little bit of history the Quakers"},{"startTime":814.2,"endTime":820.52,"body":"didn't arise out of a vacuum they came out of the English Civil War this was a"},{"startTime":820.6,"endTime":827.08,"body":"time period in England where the Puritans had taken over the country they"},{"startTime":827.08,"endTime":834.16,"body":"had overthrown the king and George and Oliver Cromwell was Lord"},{"startTime":834.16,"endTime":841.16,"body":"Protector of England so the Catholic Church was in even more trouble than it"},{"startTime":841.16,"endTime":846.96,"body":"had been under the Protestant Kingdom and the Church of England was in well"},{"startTime":847.0,"endTime":851.88,"body":"definitely some trouble and there were a bunch of people that just who had been"},{"startTime":851.88,"endTime":863.28,"body":"Puritans who didn't like them anymore one of them was George Fox he claimed to"},{"startTime":863.28,"endTime":869.4,"body":"have a revelation a vision that quote there is one even Jesus Christ who can"},{"startTime":869.4,"endTime":877.48,"body":"speak to thy condition end quote based on that he became convinced that you"},{"startTime":877.48,"endTime":882.72,"body":"don't need clergy that all believers are priests so the priesthood of all"},{"startTime":882.72,"endTime":888.88,"body":"believers and that everyone needs to have a direct experience and communication"},{"startTime":888.88,"endTime":895.92,"body":"with God so he started preaching he would travel around through Puritan"},{"startTime":895.92,"endTime":903.92,"body":"churches and preach his his version of things and as he started to convince"},{"startTime":903.92,"endTime":910.84,"body":"people they would go on and preach as well and the early Quakers were loud they"},{"startTime":910.84,"endTime":916.04,"body":"were boisterous they would preach in churches they would preach in courtyards"},{"startTime":916.04,"endTime":922.72,"body":"they would preach in the city square at markets at festivals at fairs at anywhere"},{"startTime":922.72,"endTime":934.28,"body":"they could find people and by 1680 in 1650 George Fox was arrested and taken"},{"startTime":934.28,"endTime":940.52,"body":"before the magistrates Gervais Bennett and Nathaniel Barton on the charge of"},{"startTime":940.52,"endTime":947.8,"body":"blasphemy and according to his own autobiography magistrate Bennett quote"},{"startTime":947.8,"endTime":952.0,"body":"was the first that called us Quakers because I bade them tremble at the word"},{"startTime":952.0,"endTime":959.56,"body":"of the Lord end quote it was a pejorative at that time Quakers were"},{"startTime":959.56,"endTime":964.2,"body":"describing themselves as you know true Christians saints children of the light"},{"startTime":964.2,"endTime":969.76,"body":"and friends of the truth and settled eventually on preferring to call"},{"startTime":969.76,"endTime":974.84,"body":"themselves friends and the Society of Friends and eventually the religious"},{"startTime":974.84,"endTime":984.08,"body":"Society of Friends but eventually they came to embrace the term Quaker in 1662"},{"startTime":984.08,"endTime":989.8,"body":"there was official persecution of Quakers with the Quaker Act of 1662 and"},{"startTime":989.8,"endTime":1000.8,"body":"the Coven Sinticle Act of 1664 and that persecution was relaxed after the"},{"startTime":1000.8,"endTime":1008.64,"body":"declaration of indulgence in 1687 and it was absolutely stopped under the"},{"startTime":1008.64,"endTime":1014.92,"body":"act of toleration in 1689 and by that time an aristocratic Quaker by the name"},{"startTime":1014.92,"endTime":1022.44,"body":"of William Penn established Pennsylvania as an explicitly Quaker Commonwealth"},{"startTime":1022.72,"endTime":1031.36,"body":"and prior to the act of toleration there were Quakers in Massachusetts who"},{"startTime":1031.36,"endTime":1036.84,"body":"were executed and Quakers throughout England and Wales were routinely"},{"startTime":1036.84,"endTime":1044.6,"body":"arrested, logged and faced all sorts of punishments. Of note the early Quakers"},{"startTime":1044.6,"endTime":1052.08,"body":"would often have women preach and viewed women as having a very important and"},{"startTime":1052.36,"endTime":1059.0,"body":"special place in the community where they were in charge of the community's"},{"startTime":1059.0,"endTime":1066.4,"body":"management of family and households and marriage and were able to form women's"},{"startTime":1066.4,"endTime":1072.36,"body":"councils to kind of manage make sure the Quakers within their community were"},{"startTime":1072.36,"endTime":1078.36,"body":"living up to the standards and much of those standards was that Quakers were"},{"startTime":1078.36,"endTime":1085.8,"body":"supposed to have plain speech plain dress and simple lives they're expected"},{"startTime":1085.8,"endTime":1094.0,"body":"to be honest and any business dealings honest and everything generally"},{"startTime":1094.0,"endTime":1099.2,"body":"expected to be you know upstanding members of the community. By the time of"},{"startTime":1099.2,"endTime":1105.12,"body":"the American Revolution Quakers had entered into a quietism period where"},{"startTime":1105.2,"endTime":1113.24,"body":"they stopped being quite so loud and did not accept disruptive or unruly"},{"startTime":1113.24,"endTime":1121.84,"body":"behavior and they spent less time trying to convert others and also stopped"},{"startTime":1121.84,"endTime":1129.84,"body":"allowing members to marry outside of the Quaker Church. As a result numbers"},{"startTime":1129.92,"endTime":1139.4,"body":"dropped in England and Wales for example they went from a 1680 peak of"},{"startTime":1139.4,"endTime":1152.08,"body":"60,000 down to under 20,000 by 1800 and by under 14,000 by 1860. Throughout the"},{"startTime":1152.08,"endTime":1158.52,"body":"19th and 20th century there were splits within the Quaker movement during the"},{"startTime":1158.56,"endTime":1165.16,"body":"American Revolution. Some American Quakers started splitting out from the"},{"startTime":1165.16,"endTime":1171.12,"body":"Society of Friends to form the free Quakers and the universal friends and"},{"startTime":1171.12,"endTime":1178.08,"body":"over the next 200 years there were numerous other splits within Quakerism"},{"startTime":1178.08,"endTime":1186.44,"body":"with the Huxsite Orthodox split which was largely over economic socioeconomic"},{"startTime":1187.4,"endTime":1194.36,"body":"issues with the Huxites being rural and poor and the Orthodox Quakers being"},{"startTime":1194.36,"endTime":1202.52,"body":"urban and wealthy. The Orthodox Quakers wanted to turn their group"},{"startTime":1202.52,"endTime":1210.76,"body":"into a more formal church with mainstream Protestant orthodoxy and the Huxites"},{"startTime":1211.2,"endTime":1218.44,"body":"opposed that and explicitly viewed the Bible as being second to God's light"},{"startTime":1218.44,"endTime":1224.56,"body":"within each member. So the Huxites and the Huxites today are represented by the"},{"startTime":1224.56,"endTime":1231.38,"body":"Friends General Conference. The Orthodox Quakers then split again with the"},{"startTime":1231.38,"endTime":1238.8,"body":"Beaconites where Isaac Prudson, a minister, Quaker minister and Manchester"},{"startTime":1238.8,"endTime":1246.44,"body":"England, wrote a book called A Beacon to the Society of Friends where he argued"},{"startTime":1246.44,"endTime":1253.36,"body":"that inner light was what mattered, not a religious belief in salvation by"},{"startTime":1253.36,"endTime":1260.48,"body":"atonement. So he resigned from the religious Society of Friends and took 48"},{"startTime":1260.48,"endTime":1266.76,"body":"members from the Manchester meeting and about 250 other Quakers with them in"},{"startTime":1266.76,"endTime":1274.16,"body":"1836 and 1837. Some of them joined the Plymouth Brethren. After that there was"},{"startTime":1274.16,"endTime":1280.84,"body":"the Gurneyite conservative split. This was with Orthodox Quakers becoming more"},{"startTime":1280.84,"endTime":1288.28,"body":"evangelical as a result of the influence of the Second Great Awakening."},{"startTime":1288.28,"endTime":1295.96,"body":"Joseph John Gurney led that move and they held revival meetings in America"},{"startTime":1295.96,"endTime":1303.96,"body":"and in Britain. They definitely fell in with the holiness movement and the"},{"startTime":1303.96,"endTime":1310.68,"body":"Gurneyites formed, well, the Gurneyite split again with one group forming the"},{"startTime":1310.68,"endTime":1315.08,"body":"Friends United Meeting and the other forming the Evangelical Friends"},{"startTime":1315.08,"endTime":1319.24,"body":"International with both the Gurneyite and Evangelical branches being"},{"startTime":1319.24,"endTime":1325.96,"body":"Evangelical. The Quakers who opposed the Orthodox Quakers who opposed the move"},{"startTime":1325.96,"endTime":1333.32,"body":"towards Evangelicalism were led by John Wilbur who formed the Fritschlie"},{"startTime":1333.32,"endTime":1340.44,"body":"General Meeting and is now represented by the Conservative Friends. So as a general rule of thumb,"},{"startTime":1341.4,"endTime":1349.64,"body":"the Friends General Conference are the liberal and unprogrammed Quakers,"},{"startTime":1350.44,"endTime":1358.52,"body":"the Hicksites, and the Conservative Quakers are also pretty liberal. Not as liberal as the"},{"startTime":1358.52,"endTime":1367.08,"body":"Friends General Conference Quakers, the Hicksites, but way more liberal than the Evangelical Quakers."},{"startTime":1367.96,"endTime":1377.8,"body":"And it's all that being said, if you encounter a Quaker outside of England or Australia,"},{"startTime":1377.8,"endTime":1384.68,"body":"chances are that Quaker is probably an evangelical part of the Evangelical Friends International."},{"startTime":1385.48,"endTime":1393.32,"body":"Evangelical Quakers, you should be focusing on the word Evangelical, not Quaker or Friends,"},{"startTime":1393.32,"endTime":1399.96,"body":"because they are young Earth creationists, they believe in abstinence before marriage,"},{"startTime":1399.96,"endTime":1406.68,"body":"marriage for life, their anti-abortion, their anti-alcohol tobacco and drugs,"},{"startTime":1407.64,"endTime":1414.36,"body":"and pacifists, and otherwise basically just Evangelicals. If you happen to have"},{"startTime":1414.36,"endTime":1420.36,"body":"conservative Quakers around you, they're going to look a lot more like mainstream Protestants."},{"startTime":1421.08,"endTime":1426.84,"body":"And if you have Hicksite Quakers around you, they're probably going to be really liberal"},{"startTime":1427.8,"endTime":1436.6,"body":"and may even be atheists. And on a personal note, my grandpa Williams was born and raised Quaker."},{"startTime":1438.04,"endTime":1444.92,"body":"He was born in Kansas and his family moved to Caldwell, Idaho when he was a young child,"},{"startTime":1445.56,"endTime":1451.8,"body":"and he attended the Quaker school in Greenleaf, Idaho about six miles away. So about"},{"startTime":1452.6,"endTime":1461.24,"body":"Greenleaf being about 35, 40 miles away from Boise. I do know that at some point as an adult,"},{"startTime":1461.88,"endTime":1469.24,"body":"he converted to the Adventist church, I do not know if his parents were converts"},{"startTime":1470.2,"endTime":1476.28,"body":"or multi-generational Quakers. But it's still an interesting family connection."},{"startTime":1477.0,"endTime":1485.4,"body":"And as I've learned more about various ancestors, I've found that I have had ancestors who have"},{"startTime":1485.4,"endTime":1496.92,"body":"been a part of basically every major Protestant group. And I definitely find that pretty interesting."},{"startTime":1497.88,"endTime":1503.72,"body":"So I hope this hasn't been too confusing. I personally find the Quakers confusing."},{"startTime":1506.52,"endTime":1511.08,"body":"I've been wanting to get this out. I've been wanting to do the Quakers and Shakers for"},{"startTime":1512.04,"endTime":1517.32,"body":"like eight years. And I'm finally getting it done. And I'm not going to bother trying to"},{"startTime":1519.32,"endTime":1524.68,"body":"make more sense of it than this. The Quakers are a confusing mess because they have a system of"},{"startTime":1524.68,"endTime":1527.72,"body":"governance that involves not debating things and"},{"startTime":1536.2,"endTime":1543.56,"body":"all right, no new patrons and no new feedback. If you want to contact us, you can use the feedback"},{"startTime":1543.56,"endTime":1551.72,"body":"form at htotw.com slash contact. You can leave us a voicemail message at 208 996 8667"},{"startTime":1552.6,"endTime":1560.36,"body":"or go to htotw.com slash beak pipe. You can also just send us an email at contact at htotw.com."},{"startTime":1561.32,"endTime":1566.04,"body":"You can support the show on a monthly basis with Patreon or just once with PayPal credit or debit"},{"startTime":1567.16,"endTime":1572.76,"body":"or with Apple Pay or Google Pay. And you can find links at htotw.com slash donate."},{"startTime":1572.76,"endTime":1583.8,"body":"And until next time, remember not all those who wander are lost."}]}